New DoW II DLC out -- Tau Commander for Survival Mode. £6.45. What are they thinking? [Archive]

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McChubs

20-10-2011, 01:57 PM

Althea

20-10-2011, 01:59 PM

The same as what they're thinking with the rest of the DLC. £5 for skin packs, £2 for a few pieces of gear... Snort.

The JG Man

20-10-2011, 02:01 PM

The price is ridiculous, no doubts about that, but unfortunately that seems to be rather consistent with their other DLC offerings for Retri. (Edit) This of course becomes more laughable when you consider you can buy The Last Stand mode itself for £6.25...for £6.45, I want a variety of heroes. Chuck in a Necron Lord and how about some other race 'leaders' while we're at it?

In terms of the Tau Commander itself, at least you're getting a new play-style out of it. Supposedly he has no melee, but his ranged is ridiculous. I no doubt expect to be playing with a load tonight.

EDIT 2: It's just occurred to me that everyone who already got that update clearly has the files for it too. Sigh. When did this become standard? To have the content, but not be able to use it? For shame.

McChubs

20-10-2011, 02:21 PM

You would think it'd be a free update...he is not a game-breaking character by any means, as my two Tau one Space Marine games attest.

Althea

20-10-2011, 02:23 PM

EDIT 2: It's just occurred to me that everyone who already got that update clearly has the files for it too. Sigh. When did this become standard? To have the content, but not be able to use it? For shame.
But you need to pay for the hard work they put into textures and voice acting?!?111oneoneone11!!1IIII11!

Drake Sigar

20-10-2011, 02:26 PM

I haven’t bought any DLC since Dragon Age Origins, and that simply makes me better than most people.

Jams O'Donnell

20-10-2011, 02:40 PM

It's cheaper than buying a Tau Commander for 40K (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060257), I guess.

I haven’t bought any DLC since Dragon Age Origins, and that simply makes me better than most people.
I haven't bought any DLC. #betterthanyounerrnerr

Althea

20-10-2011, 02:42 PM

It's cheaper than buying a Tau Commander for 40K (http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catalog/productDetail.jsp?prodId=prod1060257), I guess.
Holy Censored Comments, Batman! That is expensive. I'm sure the Commander was only £15 when it first came out, if that?

lunarplasma

20-10-2011, 02:42 PM

I'm not going to buy it for that price. Shame, really. I would've done if it were £2 or even £3.

Drake Sigar

20-10-2011, 02:46 PM

I haven't bought any DLC. #betterthanyounerrnerr
This isn't over.

Althea

20-10-2011, 02:47 PM

I buy a fair amount of DLC #bendsoverandtakesit

deano2099

20-10-2011, 02:57 PM

I'm not going to buy it for that price. Shame, really. I would've done if it were £2 or even £3.

I think you're in a minority though. And next time there's a DOW2 sale on Steam it'll probably be that much then.

Last Stand has been out for a while, there are quite a few people who really really like that will happily pay this as they already put 30 hours or more in to the regular mode. I mean, there are 6 characters for it, they all change play-style as you level up, and it takes about 10 hours per character to max out, if not more. To exhaust all the existing Last Stand content (level every hero to 20) will take a long time.

And for those not that interested in Last Stand, it's unlikely they'll pick it up anyway.

The only people it's unfair to are those that quite enjoy Last Stand but absolutely love Tau in the table-top game or DOW1.

acidtestportfolio

20-10-2011, 03:10 PM

holy shit, this is ten dollars.

who actually fucking thought that the tau would be worth ten fucking dollars for last stand?

what are they fucking smoking over there?

metalangel

20-10-2011, 03:14 PM

This isn't over.

You can extend your rivalry with our new DLC! This premium content adds over two hours!

acidtestportfolio

20-10-2011, 03:24 PM

This premium content adds over two hours!

if this premium content is not an opportunity to kick the people responsible for pricing the DLC for two hours with steel-tipped cowboy boots then it's no sale

lasikbear

20-10-2011, 03:27 PM

I would probably have been willing to spend $5 on it, and even then knowing that I was probably making a bad choice, but this is ridiculous. Guess there's always Steam winter sales.

deano2099

20-10-2011, 08:31 PM

Weird responses... if you like Last Stand a lot, this is 10-15 hours of content (in leveling him up to 20 and unlocking everything).

acidtestportfolio

20-10-2011, 09:11 PM

Weird responses... if you like Last Stand a lot, this is 10-15 hours of content (in leveling him up to 20 and unlocking everything).

yeah i like it when i bring my ranged ork into a match full of tau

that means i have to play nanny for a bunch of people who refuse to use anything else just because i don't want to pay ten bucks

Althea

20-10-2011, 09:15 PM

Weird responses... if you like Last Stand a lot, this is 10-15 hours of content (in leveling him up to 20 and unlocking everything).
Not really. It's £6.50 for a model, some achievements, some items and new voice clips. It's really not something you can measure in hours of content (Even considering the time it takes to level up to 20 and unlock all gear). DLC should be priced in terms of content, not how long you might get out of it. By that logic, Bethesda should charge £7.50 at least for the Gun Runner's Arsenal stuff for New Vegas as you could use some of that for the hours up on hours you get out of the game (I think, including adventuring and just aimlessly wandering for quests, you can easily rack up 60-70 hours on just one character).

The JG Man

20-10-2011, 09:16 PM

I don't believe they are weird. From what I can tell, no-one is bemoaning the addition of new content, or indeed the amount of life you're likely to get out of it. What is being talked about is the price which is...consistent, but that's not necessarily good. When you can buy the entire game mode, with 6 heroes already, for less than this one hero, I think it's reasonable to call into question the pricing decision. They're selling texture packs, good ones, but texture packs regardless for £5.

I think I stand with others on here; the DLC in general might be of interest to me, but I'm not going to pay it as is. When it goes on sale, maybe, but even then, with hesitation.

Edit: Beaten, rather majestically.

Hanban

20-10-2011, 09:41 PM

deano2099

21-10-2011, 12:13 AM

They're selling texture packs, good ones, but texture packs regardless for £5.

I do think those are a rip-off. I guess compared to them it's good value.

I think the point I was trying to get at was: yes, the whole mode costs nearly the same as this and has six heroes. Think it's a rip-off? Then go play those other six heroes? I'm fairly sure most people haven't really played with all the base heroes as it is. And it's not until you hit level 6 or so that most of them really open up, and some can change dramatically as you level. Even if you don't get on with half of them, it's still three heroes... and honestly you're more likely to be bored of Last Stand entirely before you've leveled even three heroes to near maximum.

Unless you really, really like Last Stand. In which case, you'd probably pay £6 for one extra guy.

deano2099

21-10-2011, 12:15 AM

Or to put it another way, I think if this was £2, a bunch more people would have bought it, played with him for a few games, remembered why they got bored of Last Stand in the first place, never go back to it, and feel a bit ripped off.

Smashbox

21-10-2011, 12:22 AM

They're selling texture packs, good ones, but texture packs regardless for £5.

Has there ever been a Warhammer game that let you "paint" your army?

The JG Man

21-10-2011, 12:33 AM

Or to put it another way, I think if this was £2, a bunch more people would have bought it

From this thread alone that definitely seems to be the impression.

Played with one just now. They seem incredibly powerful so long as the player isn't an overwhelming idiot. I'm a little bit disappointed in the balancing, but hey. Gotta get what you pay for.

@Smashbox - I imagine that'll be something possible for DoW3, whenever that comes, but Space Marine's customiser is pretty damn detailed. Can paint every part with a variety of authentic Games Workshop colours and you have a variety of customisable armour parts. You can have 5 different appearance sets and can choose from a LOT of pre-made Space/Chaos Marine groups.

TailSwallower

21-10-2011, 12:46 AM

Seems to my like they're testing the waters for making DoW3 free-to-play. I mean, plenty of other people think that's where they're going with it, and whilst I don't know how they came to that conclusion initially it certainly seems to hold merit considering how much Relic are charging for all these minor bits and pieces.

And the thing is, considering the roots of the game it makes sense. I could imagine playing DoW3 F2P and even buying some of the extras if I enjoy it enough.

Anyway, I've barely touched DoW2 and have no idea what this content is worth in relation to what you'll get out of it, but no doubt it's over-priced.

fanatic4k

21-10-2011, 04:31 AM

My mate just mentioned to me that the Tau commander DLC is out and about now. I was assuming they'd sell it for the usual £1ish price you'd expect for skins or cosmetic upgrades like that...but nearly seven quid for a single character for a minor game mode...what are Relic thinking?!
I will go and check some trailers on Youtube first. But I always like the Dawn of War series. Typical gun-fire strategy game :)

Althea

21-10-2011, 07:44 AM

I bought it!

I love Last Stand and when I make a purchase I put the hours of estimated fun in relation to the price. And if it's a lot of hours of fun, for less than ten bucks, well then I'm satisfied.
Might as well buy a bouncy ball for 50 cents or however much they cost in America. You'd get an even better deal.

The JG Man

21-10-2011, 08:18 AM

Seems to my like they're testing the waters for making DoW3 free-to-play.

Oh lord I hope not! Of course, by saying DoW 3 would be heading in a more 'MMO-like' direction, I suppose that could be the case. Eek! The thing is, I reckon a lot of people play DoW not just because it's fun, but because it's nowhere near as expensive to 'create' your own army as opposed to the actual real tabletop thing. Eliminate that and I think you'd be riding off the coat-tails of previous success, but not for long.

I think what's more likely the reason here is that people are willing to pay these amounts, so Relic (or is it more likely to be THQ?) is following suit. The thing is, as much as I can justify the will to play as the Tau Commander, its pricing is just absurd. You cannot, justifiably say that for your money's worth, you get more out of it than the entire Last Stand mode that already exists. It doesn't par up.

Hanban

21-10-2011, 08:38 AM

"Might as well buy a bouncy ball for 50 cents or however much they cost in America. You'd get an even better deal."

I have one already bouncing at my side. Certainly got my money's worth on that one.

deano2099

21-10-2011, 10:11 AM

I think what's more likely the reason here is that people are willing to pay these amounts, so Relic (or is it more likely to be THQ?) is following suit. The thing is, as much as I can justify the will to play as the Tau Commander, its pricing is just absurd. You cannot, justifiably say that for your money's worth, you get more out of it than the entire Last Stand mode that already exists. It doesn't par up.

No, but it doesn't have to.

Because they're selling this to people that already own and have played the original Last Stand mode. It's not in competition with that so it doesn't have to be priced against that.

If I could just go and buy another copy of Last Stand, and get as much enjoyment out of it the second time as the first, then the point would be valid. But I can't.

lunarplasma

21-10-2011, 10:14 AM

I would also have thought that quite a few more people would have bought this DLC for £2, than have done for its price now. Those people may not even spend more than 5 hours playing with that content, but they would have still bought it.

QuantaCat

21-10-2011, 10:43 AM

They were thinking: "Sure its expensive, but if a hundred people alone buy this, then we will have paid the artist and coder making it"

deano2099

21-10-2011, 11:44 AM

I'm torn somewhat on this.

Right, I reckon that yes, at £2, especially following the free weekend and big sale last week, they might have sold three times as many copies. Or more.

Because it's an impulse purchase price. Because you'd probably buy it if you thought you might play it at some point. I do reckon most of those people would then either not get around to playing it, or play it for half an hour, realise it's not that different to the other heroes in Last Stand which they're already bored with, and then shelve it. And probably feel like they wasted two quid.

At least at £6 it's clear who it's aimed at. The people buying it will be the ones who are sure to get their monies worth out of it. Which in some ways, is screwing the consumer a little less. Backwards I know.

I think my point is, very few people will be buying this and feeling ripped-off. They'll either buy it, knowing what they're getting and knowing that it's worth it for them, or they'll see it's £6 and know that it isn't worth it and not bother. More people would buy it at £2, but I reckon fewer of those people would feel like they're getting their £2's worth than those spending £6 on it.

(Also there's the need for a barrier to entry - if it was only £2, everyone would be using that character for the next few weeks, I mean, that's happening to some extent now and people are complaining about it in this very thread, imagine if it were only £2...)

The JG Man

21-10-2011, 03:12 PM

If I could just go and buy another copy of Last Stand

Tau Commander, Necron Lord...anyone else got 4 other 'hero' character possibilities from other 40K races to go with?

That's my point, price for price. See, that would seem low, but only in comparison to the other silly priced DLC. If you could buy 6 new heroes for the same price as Last Stand is now, I'd say that was fantastic value. Alas, it is not.

Doesn'tmeananything

21-10-2011, 04:06 PM

I can't agree more with deano. The pricing does indeed feel steep, but it's not like Relic are completely unreasonable. Price to content ratio is completely irrelevant here. It's quite clear whom this DLC is intended for - players who love yet have exhausted the Last Stand mode (Relic have also provided much time for that to happen, as Tau Commander appeared quite late in the DLC cycle of the game). At this point the baseline mode serves just as a platform, even if it's more substantial, and there's a high demand for new content within that frame of the game. I'd say that judging by the general reaction the overwhelming majority of people who are into Last Stand both find the asking price quite fine and are happy with the provided quality.

However.

People who criticise pricing in this situation seem to be players who've not really enjoyed the game itself or the Last Stand in particular, so while the target audience was generally satisfied, the rest of the community has one more reason to accuse the devs of the lust for lucre. By decreasing the price Relic would probably ameliorate the fallout of the unhappy and at the same time make the DLC financially appealing to a larger portion of players.

Meanwhile, though, many players are pleased, many players are disappointed to a different extend, and the already notorious DLC is in the top sellers on Steam.

deano2099

21-10-2011, 04:37 PM

Seriously, is there anyone that really wants this but isn't buying as the price is too high? I'm not buying, but so far I've only really played Space Marine and Imperial General guy in Last Stand.

But if you want this, and just don't feel it's worth the money, I'd ask why you want it? Why not just go play with one of the other heroes you haven't used yet?

The only real reason I can see is if you just love the Tau that much, in which case I agree, it's kinda unfair you have to pay more for 'your' hero than everyone else. But isolated solely to the game, I don't see any reason.

Althea

21-10-2011, 05:03 PM

The problem with Last Stand is, in my opinion, there's never that many people seemingly playing. I've been on and I don't think I've ever had more than 5 or 6 potential matches for a game. If the DLC was lower priced, in my mind it would stimulate more players to return to Last Stand and try it, which would mean more people to match with, and a better experience.

But... I don't know. I find it rather cheeky that THQ/Relic can think of charging £6.50 in the first place for the Tau Commander, because it's just stupidly priced. It's one character, a bunch of items, four achievements and that's about it. If it came with a couple of Last Stand maps or some extra items for the other heroes - or, better still, was a pack containing three or so new heroes - I would be on it like a fly over shit, assuming one of the heroes was female (Come on, Relic, you've got to at least give us another female hero) then I would be more in agreement with the price.

If you ignore the time it takes to level this character and look at what you're getting, it's expensive. One character with some items exclusively for him. You can only use him in one game mode. I personally think £6.50 is an outrageous price to charge, as is the £5 for a bunch of reskins.

Doesn'tmeananything

21-10-2011, 05:35 PM

The problem with Last Stand is, in my opinion, there's never that many people seemingly playing.

Only there are. Out of 2000 people online during the slowest hours and 5500 at the peak each day at any given moment, I'd say at least half of them are playing Last Stand. It's fast paced, isn't very time and skill demanding, provides decent amount of tactical variety and incentive to keep playing and leveling up your characters/compete in leaderboards. Naturally, it's very popular. And it makes sense that matchmaking system doesn't ping every Last Stand game available, so that's why you get low number of matches. Are you actually getting into a party without having to wait long for it? Undoubtedly. If anything, the Last Stand mode for DoWII/Chaos Rising is still very played, and I managed to have fun with people hassle-free even at the most preposterous hours. In the game, of course.

I find it rather cheeky that THQ/Relic can think of charging £6.50 in the first place for the Tau Commander, because it's just stupidly priced.Cheeky, sure. But it's not like they haven't got a clue. More stuff for less money is always nice. Nevertheless, I think it's the case of vocal part of gamers being grievous, when the majority simply buys.

I've exclusively played 28 hours of Last Stand, 90% of which solely as Space Marine. On one map. An average player would be unlikely to invest as much time into it, on the same terms, but I still think this is a fairly prominent example of what exactly a fully-fledged character of Last Stand bears with himself/herself/itself. I've already mentioned that price could be lower, but calling it outrageous is also not quite seeing the overall point.

Axyl

23-10-2011, 05:28 AM

I got my Tau Commander for free, directly from Jeff Lydell, via Twitter.
I won a contest to write a Haiku about Last Stand...and I won. ;)

Check out @HateMe_Gaming on twitter if you're curious.

On Topic, the commander is awesome. Sure I got mine for free, but I would have paid for it happily. Now I don't have to, i can fully enjoy this very powerful and incredibly fun to play Hero.

Every single hero on my account for Last Stand is lvl 20 (max lvl), and the Space Marine Captain is Elite 3 lvl 20 (the absolute highest a hero can level to) as well as having played the entire DoW2 series for just over 1000 hours (1025 to be exact according to Steam's readings over all 3 titles), so I definitely know what I'm talking about.

As a die hard fan of both 40k and DoW2, this new TLS Hero is both great fun, and not bad value for money..though i doubt anyone would argue that cheaper wouldn't be better, even me. ;)

Take this as you wish, but for me.. It's a great addition to the game, and not at all overpriced considering some of the utter shit/fucking moronic ideas that get palmed off as DLC nowadays *cough* MP Mappacks *cough*

acidtestportfolio

23-10-2011, 09:20 AM

As a die hard fan of both 40k and DoW2, this new TLS Hero is both great fun, and not bad value for money..though i doubt anyone would argue that cheaper wouldn't be better, even me. ;)

have you gone outside lately

Axyl

23-10-2011, 06:04 PM

Wow... what a constructive reply.

Oddly enough, yes I have been outside lately.
A lot this week in fact, mostly to see friends and family due to the death of one of my brothers last weekend.
Some of us are able to play many hours of games, as well as having an actual life outside of gaming. Something I'm guessing is a mystery to you

Any other enlightening fucking comments to add, or are you done?

McChubs

23-10-2011, 06:14 PM

What's she upset about then?