A thought about the new Syndicate...

[FunnyB]

I've always been a fan of the original and my opinion on the new game is that it's sad to see another game go down the "Everything must be an FPS"-route, but at the same time, the mechanics and the setting of the new game still look interesting for an FPS.

But that's not what I want to discuss in this thread. I have an interesting theory in mind regarding our "hero" Miles Kilo (great name choice BTW..... :P) and his "mentor" Mysterious McBetrayal.

Remember in the first game, how all the agents were brainwashed and replacable John/Jane Does? And do you also remember the intro to Syndicate Wars (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrruSboN1bQ) were a guy is walking along, apparently in an Utopian city, but suddenly waking up to the grim reality of the future?

So, my theory is, (and I'm fully aware of that this will almost certainly NOT be the case in the new game,) the following.

Miles Kilo can still be one of the nameless and brainwashed agents from the original. They have only altered the brainwashing to make it seem like he is this top agent for the Syndicate. His "mentor" might even be a projection caused by the chip in his head, who's there to learn him the ropes and still make him believe that he is in fully control of his own actions. Either that, or the "mentor" is just another agent, who the chip alters to make it seem like they have this relationship. Maybe it's even vice versa for the other agent, that he believe that Miles Kilo is the mentor.

I know that this is all a stretch, and that it would imply that the Syndicate would need to go to great lengths to assure that the agents believe this. Perhaps they do it because the agents perform better if they have a belief of self-preservation instead of blind obedience?

Anyway, this is just a theory, which we most certainly will not see realized in the game, but wouldn't it make it a bit more interesting, instead of just playing as Miles Kilo, HERO OF EUROCORP!!!


Thoughts/critique? :D

[acidtestportfolio]

i have a thought about the new syndicate

generic fps with regenerating health, cover shooting and chest high walls

throw in a reference to the old game about five times every hour and package it for $60

ultimately a gameplay experience that will make you wish the AAA game industry would die faster

[coldvvvave]

I have a thought about new Syndicate.

It's going to be great and I'll buy an extra copy so I can gift it to some sad hater.

[acidtestportfolio]

It's going to be great and I'll buy an extra copy so I can gift it to some sad hater.

give it to me so i can assure you it will be terrible

[Megagun]

There's more that can be done with the new Syndicate...

What if it turns out that you've been operating a single clone body all the time throughout the game? What if you 'jack out' of that character mid-game and walk around in your normal body without any of your epic powers? What if it turns out that you've been on heavy drugs through the entire game, and are actually helping some criminal gang steal some important data from high-profile corporations?

[c-Row]

generic fps with regenerating health, cover shooting and chest high walls

You do remember that the old Syndicate had regenerating health as well, don't you?

Not to mention that most missions never give you the option to think things through and rather throw enemy agents at you at the dozen right after one minute into the game, so your best option is to hide behind a door with your shotgun ready and wait for them. So, cover shooting? Check. Chest high walls which mess up pathfinding and block your path even if they are only half as tall as your agents? Check.

It even includes level scaling, another of today's dreaded game features - just try to bring a different weapon load out to a mission, and *all of a sudden* the enemy agents which were armed with shotguns before now carry mini guns as well. Surprise!

I wonder if people really remember Syndicate like it was or rather like they want it to be.

[Unaco]

I wonder if people really remember Syndicate like it was or rather like they want it to be.

This. Syndicate was a great game, but it was far, far, far from being the rich tactical masterpiece that a lot of people claim.

[Serenegoose]

Wasn't syndicate just like cannon fodder? I mean not a rich strategy experience, but it had a fair amount of emphasis on being clever, since your own agents were so easy to off. I played it a VERY long time ago, so my memory might be more than a little flawed.

[acidtestportfolio]

I wonder if people really remember Syndicate like it was or rather like they want it to be.

are you intentionally being stupid so i can pay attention to you

[burningpet]

This. Syndicate was a great game, but it was far, far, far from being the rich tactical masterpiece that a lot of people claim.

This. but not that.

Syndicate may not have been the tactical masterpiece that people make it to be, but that doesnt mean it couldnt be with today's standards, technology and experience.

[sinister agent]

Wasn't syndicate just like cannon fodder? I mean not a rich strategy experience, but it had a fair amount of emphasis on being clever, since your own agents were so easy to off. I played it a VERY long time ago, so my memory might be more than a little flawed.

I would argue that cannon fodder was a lot more tactical. Or in fact, not even that - many of its levels were more like puzzles than anything else. Although there were typically other ways to go about each level, you did typically have to figure out the 'trick' of each level.

[Teddy Leach]

This. Syndicate was not a tactical masterpiece, or even particularly tactical at all.

[FunnyB]

I gotta say, it's kind of disheartening to see the thread completely derailed from the start. Instead of discussing or at least offering some kind of input about the first post, you all turned this into every other thread about the new Syndicate.... Nice job!

[deano2099]

I wonder if people really remember Syndicate like it was or rather like they want it to be.

That's the point. If one could go back and play Syndicate now and it was perfect, then there would be no need for a follow-up in the RTS-mould. But it wasn't. It was flawed and made some bad choices.

I don't want a remake of Syndicate like it was, I want a remake of it like I wanted it to be. I never really wanted it to be an FPS.

[sinister agent]

I wonder if Cartel will try a Like, Totally War approach, and have a more involved campaign map with dynamic mission generation. That could be really interesting, especially as Syndicate did have a model for expansion of the other corporations. They just never expanded into your turf.

[archonsod]

Syndicate may not have been the tactical masterpiece that people make it to be, but that doesnt mean it couldnt be with today's standards, technology and experience.

Which would make about as much sense as turning it into an FPS. Neither would be close to the original.

[deano2099]

Which would make about as much sense as turning it into an FPS. Neither would be close to the original.

Not really. Unless your reaction to, say, Dawn of War 2 was that that also made as much sense as turning it in to an FPS.

[c-Row]

are you intentionally being stupid so i can pay attention to you

At least I made an effort and wrote several paragraphs and gave examples rather than just spitting short-sentenced acid bursts at anybody who disagrees with me. What exactly did you add to this thread?



That's the point. If one could go back and play Syndicate now and it was perfect, then there would be no need for a follow-up in the RTS-mould. But it wasn't. It was flawed and made some bad choices.

But it featured many of the design decisions we bash today's developers for, and most of them can't be excused with technological limitations. Not to imply that the original game was bad - it's still great fun, but some of its (apparently forgotten) flaws are just painfully obvious.



I gotta say, it's kind of disheartening to see the thread completely derailed from the start. Instead of discussing or at least offering some kind of input about the first post, you all turned this into every other thread about the new Syndicate.... Nice job!

Ok then... the OP's theory reminded me of BioShock and the plot twist during the second half, which I certainly wouldn't call a bad thing at all. Making the agent (and the player himself) believe that what he does in the game is his own decision and not simply following directions sounds like the logical thing to do and sounds like a great way to make the player angry at an NPC once the secret is unveiled.

[acidtestportfolio]

At least I made an effort and wrote several paragraphs and gave examples rather than just spitting short-sentenced acid bursts at anybody who disagrees with me. What exactly did you add to this thread?

i added brevity

something you should try

[sabrage]

i added brevity


Oh, irony...

[c-Row]

i added brevity

something you should try

I just don't like keeping things short.

*ba dum tss*

[grasskit]

This. Syndicate was a great game, but it was far, far, far from being the rich tactical masterpiece that a lot of people claim.
really? people claim that? who are they, where? maybe it is you who should stop with the hyperbole. im pretty sure all that people claim about syndicate is that they remember it fondly cause it was quite original and unique and they havent played anything like that at the time with its "gleeful amorality" and whatnot. and by the way some bad game design decisions are besides the point, especially when you look with wisdom of hindsight. which games of the tame didn't have design problems by todays standards?
ironic thing is most people who played the original and are attracted by the license aren't interested in the kind of game they're making; while most people who might genuinely like the game that is being made probably haven't played or familiar with original syndicate. ok there might be some overlap sure, although that is in the minority i think. point is, there is no real target audience cause of that conflict. the only real reason why the game is even called syndicate (or even the x-com game) is that its easier to get projects greenlit with known license behind it.

[c-Row]

the only real reason why the game is even called syndicate (or even the x-com game) is that its easier to get projects greenlit with known license behind it.

Instant publicity is another good reason I guess.

[BillButNotBen]

the mechanics and the setting of the new game still look interesting for an FPS.

or the opposite.

--

I'm going for Kilo as in - Alpha, Bravo, .... Kilo... etc..
so he's just number 11 of this batch.

[Kadayi]

ultimately a gameplay experience that will make you wish the AAA game industry would die faster

So you effectively want the games industry to die? Or is it just that you feel the masses are playing the 'wrong' games somehow and need to be educated?

[Keep]

So, my theory is, (and I'm fully aware of that this will almost certainly NOT be the case in the new game,) the following.

Miles Kilo can still be one of the nameless and brainwashed agents from the original. They have only altered the brainwashing to make it seem like he is this top agent for the Syndicate. His "mentor" might even be a projection caused by the chip in his head, who's there to learn him the ropes and still make him believe that he is in fully control of his own actions. Either that, or the "mentor" is just another agent, who the chip alters to make it seem like they have this relationship. Maybe it's even vice versa for the other agent, that he believe that Miles Kilo is the mentor.

I know that this is all a stretch, and that it would imply that the Syndicate would need to go to great lengths to assure that the agents believe this. Perhaps they do it because the agents perform better if they have a belief of self-preservation instead of blind obedience?

Anyway, this is just a theory, which we most certainly will not see realized in the game, but wouldn't it make it a bit more interesting, instead of just playing as Miles Kilo, HERO OF EUROCORP!!!


Thoughts/critique? :D

This'd be great. I keep thinking of that false-utopia intro when I see FPS-Syndicate mentioned, and I'm also kinda-but-I-know-it-won't-be-but-all-the-same-wishing that they'll go somewhere with that idea.

Even if it weren't plot at all, but just something as straightforward as occasionally intercutting the fun ultra-violence silliness - ludicrous bombs going off and Evil Enemies gleefully jumping into your bullets - with the scales falling from your (first-person) eyes and the real, brutal, inhuman world - crying and fear and "They were civilians, not terrorists!" - revealing itself.

It'd be dark, oh God, and harrowing and definitely not ok. But it'd make it so much more valuable than another shooter dumbly getting on board the "Kill enemies for great justice" wagon.