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eRa
28-10-2011, 04:48 PM
Sword of the Stars II is out in two hours, a post in the dev forums has me a little worried though. Since the board is seriously getting hammered at the moment I'll just paste the content (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=21829).

Will try to hold off for a while now, probably won't work though.


Hey folks,

As I write this is just before 2 AM and technically its release day! For those of you awaiting patiently (others crazily impatiently http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif ) it will probably be another few hours before you get the stream of electrons that will arrange itself into your copy of SotS2, a game that has taken the better part of 2 years to make. And as I have mentioned elsewhere, these have not been the easiest 2 years for this team on a number of levels not related to the project. A sign, I suspect, that many of us are getting older despite our youthful art.

Now releases are always glorious, terrible, exhilerating and stressful things. And this one is destined to be much the same. I was planning to just head home and face plant for a few hours but then I heard that some people around the boards were shocked that I was honest in another topic about a feature that didn't workout and another that I was not comfortable with leaving in the game given its instability at this point. Many of you were very supportive of this while a couple people here and there have questioned "what no feature lockdown?". To be honest folks I will tell you something you can apply to any Kerberos project...there is NO feature SO locked down that it gets to bring down the rest of the game. It can be in there from day 2 and if something is making it a clear detriment I have no problem yanking it. My apologies if that makes some folks nervous or others feel like "beta testers" but to be honest, the urge comes from trying NOT to make you paying beta testers. To me, including something I KNOW will break your game experience so we can track down whats wrong with it easier IS using you. Taking something out till its ready for you to play may not be the perfect answer for everyone but at least its an honest one I can live with.

The SotS2 you are about to get is a HUGE, fun game with a ton of new features. Do I consider it perfect? Gods knows I wish but we all know that the reality of big games is that there is always something. (And for the record, by my own slightly manic personal standards, I only felt that sots prime was "done" about a year ago and I am still going to go back and tinker at least one more time http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_twisted.gif ) The bottom line here is that we are planning to take full advantage of the Steam systems we have integrated to update the crap out of this baby till every feature you have heard us talking about over the past year is the way we want it. So be prepared for new updates and goodies all the way through November.

While I am sorry if this frankness upsets any of you fans who pre-ordered but I would rather be up front than just put on my "Garsh!" face and act incredulous when you post that you can't find an indy planet or call up every summary screen. Hopefully any of you that have spent time on these boards know that is not our style. And certainly if any of you reading this who haven't pre-ordered and are thinking "Hmmm I don't know how I feel about this, maybe I should wait" despite everything thing I have said, then please do feel free to wait. Again, while this may sound like a daring thing to say, really its one of the safest bets I have every made http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

So all in all, I would like to thank everyone for their support and enthusiasm and I hope that continues with a dollop of patience. Over the past few months especially I have watched this team work harder with more inspiration despite the long hours than ANY other team I have seen in the industry over the past 15 years and its been my honor to work with them. I would also like to thank the relatively small core of beta testers who have spent the last 2 weeks doing the incredibly unfun work of tracking down every possible crash bug so we could stamp them out. If any make it through to you then it is not through lack of dedication from the testers. They have been amazing and NIghthaunt gets a lot of special credit for stepping forward to organize things and keeping testing on track.


So thats the state of things as we head toward launch everyone. I wish my message was all glam and no perspective but c'est la vie, I try and treat you folks the way I like to be treated myself. Thanks again for all your support and belief over the years and always remember...it just keeps getting cooler! http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/images/smilies/thumb.gif

---Martin E. Cirulis
CEO/Creative Director
Kerberos Productions

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 04:54 PM
Honest developer...

Regardless SotS was released like 33% of how it ended up, if this is nearer to 65% then that's progress.


Don't want to play with a volatile game? wait a few months and buy a retail disk at a massive discount and activate it on steam.

Tikey
28-10-2011, 04:56 PM
To be honest, I don't mind them updating and adapting the game after release. God knows SOTS became a good game long after its release.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 04:59 PM
I don't expect massive, complex strategy games to be perfect on release, I expect them to get faithful and energetic support from the devs after release. Kerberos has been very good about supporting the original SotS, and ultimately turned it into a brilliant game from somewhat rough beginnings. I'm more than happy to support them in doing the same with SotS2. I suspect we'll have a much stronger starting point this time, too, which is no bad thing.

Giaddon
28-10-2011, 06:27 PM
Someone (Steam? Kerberos?) pushed back the release another 4 hours.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 06:31 PM
Wait, when the hell did they announce that this thing was a Steamworks game? Son of a bitch, I'd have waited for a sale if I'd known. I'm very disappointed, and more than a little worried, that Paradox/Kerberos chose to go this route. It's a bad precedent.

Giaddon
28-10-2011, 06:35 PM
Oh sad :(

Yeah, it was kind of quietly announced maybe two weeks ago? Or maybe even last week?

Giaddon
28-10-2011, 06:36 PM
It looks like it's out now, anyway. Just some weirdness.

Kaira-
28-10-2011, 06:37 PM
Wait, this is Steamworks-game too? For fuck's sake, why would you do that? Lucky thing I didn't pre-order. Also, what a shame.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 06:42 PM
Wait, this is Steamworks-game too? For fuck's sake, why would you do that? Lucky thing I didn't pre-order. Also, what a shame.

I'm actually going back and forth on asking Gamersgate for a refund in light of the DRM. Based on past experience, and the fact that I haven't downloaded the game or accessed the serial key, I'm sure they'd give me one. I'm going to want the game sooner or later, of course, but I'm less inclined to financially support Kerberos/Paradox during what is sure to be an extended post-release beta under these circumstances.

Dammit, why the hell did they have to tie themselves to Steam? It's one thing in a multiplayer-based light piece of fluff like Magicka, it's something else entirely when we're talking about a meaty, primarily single-player strategy game I'll be playing for years if not decades.

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 07:24 PM
Stop the steam hate train because this game launches without steam.

The game only needs steam for patching and installing. The theory is even multiplayer doesn't need Steam.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 07:31 PM
Stop the steam hate train because this game launches without steam.

The game only needs steam for patching and installing. The theory is even multiplayer doesn't need Steam.

I read that, and it's the installing that concerns me. I'd like to know whether, once the game is installed and patched, the directory can be put on a thumb drive and played on another computer. That is, I want to know if I can archive a copy of the game that won't require Steam to install or run.

Giaddon
28-10-2011, 07:42 PM
Manual here:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=41626&d=1319827131

Note that some features outlined in the manual are not in the release version and will be patched in later (independent races, for example).

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 07:49 PM
I read that, and it's the installing that concerns me. I'd like to know whether, once the game is installed and patched, the directory can be put on a thumb drive and played on another computer. That is, I want to know if I can archive a copy of the game that won't require Steam to install or run.well, yes it doesn't need steam to launch, so you can just yoink it onto a usb as it wont even check for steam.

archonsod
28-10-2011, 07:56 PM
Wait, when the hell did they announce that this thing was a Steamworks game? Son of a bitch, I'd have waited for a sale if I'd known. I'm very disappointed, and more than a little worried, that Paradox/Kerberos chose to go this route. It's a bad precedent.

It's not Steamworks. It uses Steam for install and updating, but you can run it without Steam (just by using the .exe).

Multiplayer runs via Gamespy, as it did in the original.



I want to know if I can archive a copy of the game that won't require Steam to install or run.

You'll need Steam to install. You might be able to just copy across the installed version of course, no idea if that will work.
And it's not going to be a post-release beta, you should know how Kerberos work - expect the teasers for the first expansion to start creeping in to the updates by November. I expect some bugs will have slipped through and there'll be one or two tweaks/balance changes inbound too, but it's going to be perfectly playable. That I do know ;)

vinraith
28-10-2011, 07:57 PM
@Helio

Doesn't that fundamentally depend on whether it requires registry keys? Some games simply can't be transported this way.

@archonsod


You might be able to just copy across the installed version of course, no idea if that will work.I think the question of whether I demand a refund may come down to the answer to that question. Unfortunately I can't test it myself without jeopardizing said refund, so that's a bit of a pain.


I expect some bugs will have slipped through and there'll be one or two tweaks/balance changes inbound too, but it's going to be perfectly playable.It's missing major features, see Giaddon's post above.

Stevo
28-10-2011, 08:02 PM
So what's it like then? Anyone played it?

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 08:08 PM
@Helio

Doesn't that fundamentally depend on whether it requires registry keys? Some games simply can't be transported this way.
You've never cloned a registry key? Aww man, I thought you kept it street.

So what's it like then? Anyone played it? Hatefully I am still on XP. :(

vinraith
28-10-2011, 08:12 PM
You've never cloned a registry key? Aww man, I thought you kept it street.
Hatefully I am still on XP. :(

I honestly didn't even know that was possible. That sounds incredibly useful under a wide variety of circumstances, and a google search turns up flakey results. Got a good resource I might learn from?

Stevo
28-10-2011, 08:18 PM
So apparently the build on Steam was a old version. This seems to be happening a lot with Steam games these days wtf is going on!

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 08:46 PM
I honestly didn't even know that was possible. That sounds incredibly useful under a wide variety of circumstances, and a google search turns up flakey results. Got a good resource I might learn from?

Well... Had I just used notepad and reg edit but I'll look for an app.

TillEulenspiegel
28-10-2011, 08:48 PM
I honestly didn't even know that was possible. That sounds incredibly useful under a wide variety of circumstances, and a google search turns up flakey results. Got a good resource I might learn from?
It's usually very simple if you know what you're looking for. Run regedit, poke around HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\Software and HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software until you find the relevant data. Right-click the key (basically a folder in Windows registry speak) and select export. That gives you a .reg file which you can move to another PC and double-click to import it.

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 09:00 PM
Ya, and a notepad to keep track of the hierarchical structure.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 09:11 PM
Very much noted, thanks gents. To be honest I've never had a situation where I needed to do this before. It's kind of ironic, actually.

Anyway, that's sufficient to let me liberate the game from its Steamlock, so I guess I'll stick with it after all. Cheers!

Hanban
28-10-2011, 09:18 PM
@Stevo

I've had a brief try, I'm a bit too smashed so I don't really want to start playing it right now. First impressions are: Boy does it look good. The menus look a lot better this time around, bar some very poor design choices. Like for instance when you build fleets and create your invoice I at first couldn't figure out how to remove a ship from the build order. Then I clicked what I assumed was a down arrow, but was apparently a trash can. Except it looked nothing like a trash can(Didn't really look much like a down arrow either, mind.).

Also I get some lag while after clicking menu buttons like 'Back* where it takes like two seconds for the action to start. The planets keep on spinning so it's not like the computer is hicking up, but it takes some time for the game to get to work. All things I hope can be patched away quickly.

It really does look amazing, I can't stress that enough.

Stevo
28-10-2011, 09:21 PM
@Hanban

Cheers, iv been dying to get my hands on a Grand Strategy game that I can sink my time into and the original was always a game I wanted to buy but never got round to getting it. Will definitely try pick it up over the next few days.

Heliocentric
28-10-2011, 09:35 PM
@Hanban

Cheers, iv been dying to get my hands on a Grand Strategy game that I can sink my time into and the original was always a game I wanted to buy but never got round to getting it. Will definitely try pick it up over the next few days.
You can try the original very cheaply, its by no means redundant.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 09:42 PM
You can try the original very cheaply, its by no means redundant.

Indeed. In fact I'd be very surprised if, over the short term, it wasn't the better game of the two.

vinraith
28-10-2011, 10:09 PM
Installed and started. The random map generator's been nerfed to hell, there are no scenarios, the graphics are busy and poorly optimized, and the game runs windowed even if you tell it not to. Yeah, I'm going to go play 1 and wait for some patches.

Inverselaw
28-10-2011, 10:09 PM
lots and lots of unexplained stuff and the encyclopedia is comically bad. supposedly a patch is already out to bring the game up to gold from its current beta state (cant play full screen).

The ship designing is much more advanced though at this point i cant say if the interface is good or not, im not really understanding whats going on.

Looks very interesting though, certainly hopefull. Though then again so was MOO3

vinraith
28-10-2011, 10:44 PM
lots and lots of unexplained stuff and the encyclopedia is comically bad. supposedly a patch is already out to bring the game up to gold from its current beta state (cant play full screen).

I haven't seen a patch, and still can't play full screen. If it's already out, I can only be deeply amused that Kerberos wanted to use Steam because "it would make patching easier." Dumbasses. Every patch they've released, historically, has been 1 to 8 months late showing up on Steam, I guess they wanted to make sure Valve could screw up everyone's game equally.

Fiyenyaa
28-10-2011, 10:50 PM
They've borked up the release by sending out beta code instead of the finished product (confirmation from a Paradox-person here (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566854-Official-Info-I)).

I've given it a brief go - not getting any performance issues like some people are (and I'm running a pretty modest setup here), but the whole shebang with the options not working, windowed-mode being always on, and general buggyness abounding are plain for all to see.
Still, from the stuff that I've seen, I'm very much looking forward to playing a proper version... Whether that will be in about a day or in a few months is anyone's guess.

TillEulenspiegel
28-10-2011, 11:14 PM
They've borked up the release by sending out beta code instead of the finished product (confirmation from a Paradox-person here (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566854-Official-Info-I)).
Hasn't that happened a few times recently, to different companies? It boggles the mind. How do you even do that? How broken/nonexistent do your software engineering processes have to be so that you could somehow accidentally release beta code for sale and not immediately realize it?

Fiyenyaa
28-10-2011, 11:44 PM
Hasn't that happened a few times recently, to different companies? It boggles the mind. How do you even do that? How broken/nonexistent do your software engineering processes have to be so that you could somehow accidentally release beta code for sale and not immediately realize it?

Yeah, I believe it happened with Dead Island recently.
As for how it could have happened? I have literally zero experience with the industry, so I couldn't possibly hazard a guess. Kerberos seems like a pretty decent dev (the original SotS was updated from a mediocre game to one my faves) even if the atmosphere on their forums (which are currently down) seem a little bit on the slavishly devotional side, so I think they'll sort it out sooner or later.

archonsod
28-10-2011, 11:49 PM
Hasn't that happened a few times recently, to different companies? It boggles the mind. How do you even do that? How broken/nonexistent do your software engineering processes have to be so that you could somehow accidentally release beta code for sale and not immediately realize it?

Quite simple. You just have one distributor allowing access before you've actually uploaded the game.

The current version isn't that bad in terms of being playable though.

Danny252
29-10-2011, 12:12 AM
Quite simple. You just have one distributor allowing access before you've actually uploaded the game.

The current version isn't that bad in terms of being playable though.

But why do you send the distributor your beta code? I don't think that SOTS2 Beta was done via Steam.

archonsod
29-10-2011, 12:19 AM
But why do you send the distributor your beta code? I don't think that SOTS2 Beta was done via Steam.
It was.

For those wanting to muck around, you can either jump into multiplayer (should be fine) or pick one of the star maps and set up a single AI (Hiver is less prone to crashing IIRC) and just explore the new stuff. Enough of the basic stuff is working sufficiently to give you some idea of how the game has changed, and of course learning the tech tree and the combat controls is always useful.

Firkragg
29-10-2011, 12:43 AM
I would love to hear the whole story about how this happened, genuinely.

Bah, can't wait up any longer for a "soonish" patch. Came bounding home from work, spring in my step, DL'ed SotS2 while making dinner. Even made a whole jug of coffee just for the occassion *sighs*.

vinraith
29-10-2011, 01:27 AM
Still waiting for that "soonish" real build. *Sigh*

Fiyenyaa
29-10-2011, 07:10 AM
Downloading another 3.8 Gb from steam right now. I'll see how well it works later.

EDIT: Browsing the Paradox and Steam forums, I'm getting the distinct impression that they've managed to upload another beta-build (that or the release client is a terrible piece of stuff) according to people's posts. I think the only thing fixed is the DLC implementation. Otherwise; beta version numbers, same bugs, and disappointment all over the floor.

snortmort
29-10-2011, 07:42 AM
Game in its current state is nowhere near as entertaining as watching the ferocious clash between rabid kerberos devotee's and highly objective game consumers with a very broken product.

I do understand how games as complex as these evolve over time, that's perfectly fine. But it pays to get off to a good start at least, if only in a business sense. Many many people will simply be skimming the forums right now and will avoid buying, even worse, they will never come back.

Fiyenyaa
29-10-2011, 07:48 AM
Oh goodness... Just fired up the newest version on steam, and I cannot actually click "create game" on the menu, and the menu cinematic-ship-fly-bys that I could see on the first build aren't there anymore.
Seems that they've dropped another clanger.

Firkragg
29-10-2011, 10:14 AM
Same here, no background and create game button does nothing, simply fantastic. Looking over the steam and paradox forums, apparently a few are able to get it up and running, though through what kind of technomancy I do not know.

Read late last night a post by one of the devs (having trouble finding the link right now, is the kerberos site down?). He expressed among other things the reason for why some features wouldn't be in the "release" version of the game, their plans for regular updates through november + onwards and that they were hard at work getting out a patch.

I can appreciate that making a patch and uploading it takes time but why are we still sitting with a completely unplayable game post patch? I really like and respect Kerberos as a developer but as a consumer I feel very disappointed.

Then again, what do I know about game development. Getting a beta version uploaded by mistake and then having to scramble all ressources to churn out a patch over the weekend must be very tough going, not to talk of the emotional impact on the devs. Talk about crunchtime.


Brilliant, I can't figure out if I'm mad or feel sorry for Kerberos. Both to varying degrees I guess.

EDIT: Apparently disabling all graphics options at least gets the background + music going on the main menu, awesome.

2nd EDIT: ... And apparently gets me past the first menu screen, very peculiar, now at the create game menu, if anyone wants to try their luck.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
29-10-2011, 01:09 PM
Then again, what do I know about game development. Getting a beta version uploaded by mistake and then having to scramble all ressources to churn out a patch over the weekend must be very tough going, not to talk of the emotional impact on the devs. Talk about crunchtime.

I'm in regular development and you only have yourselves to blame if you release the Beta code instead of the Release candidate code. If there really was a release candidate then getting it out there is a pretty simple affair. Assuming that they have a build PC with Final Builder and Advanced Installer installed and they have written the scripts they should just be able to push a button, select the Release branch and ship the output.

I suspect that there is more to this than the wrong version being shipped unless someone really fucked up.

Hensler
29-10-2011, 02:47 PM
That developer post quoted in the OP sounds like a bunch of excuses without ever actually saying what features are left out. But he talks about not wanting to make customers into paying beta testers, and I don't see how a game with so many features actually missing can be considered a "release." It seems if he/they cared about the fans as much as they say in that first thread, they wouldn't have shipped it period - especially not at $39.99. This was one of the two games I was really looking forward to this holiday season - the other being Arkham City. Still don't have a PC copy of that either, but at least the reviews for consoles have been good. I think I might wait for the first expansion to come out before I even think about getting SotS2.

Inverselaw
29-10-2011, 02:52 PM
my problem is that i lack the neccesary information to make decisions in this game, the new build is still downloading but in yesterdays version for instance the game didnt tell me what starbase modules did, like what a command module does or a warehouse or a dock, and how many i need if i want this or that.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
29-10-2011, 03:04 PM
That developer post quoted in the OP sounds like a bunch of excuses without ever actually saying what features are left out. But he talks about not wanting to make customers into paying beta testers, and I don't see how a game with so many features actually missing can be considered a "release." It seems if he/they cared about the fans as much as they say in that first thread, they wouldn't have shipped it period - especially not at $39.99. This was one of the two games I was really looking forward to this holiday season - the other being Arkham City. Still don't have a PC copy of that either, but at least the reviews for consoles have been good. I think I might wait for the first expansion to come out before I even think about getting SotS2.

I held out on buying SoTS because I had a gut feeling that it would be a mess on release. Between this and Elemental I think I'm becoming psychic.

Oddly enough I now have absolutely no plans to buy either of the games. Something better will be out long before the games are in a playable state or I'll just have forgotten about them or lost interest.

archonsod
29-10-2011, 03:16 PM
EDIT: Apparently disabling all graphics options at least gets the background + music going on the main menu, awesome.

Until you get the background up it's still loading, so the menu won't work. If disabling the options does it I'd suspect either something funky going on with the graphics card, or it's just taking it's time to cache the textures et al.


my problem is that i lack the neccesary information to make decisions in this game, the new build is still downloading but in yesterdays version for instance the game didnt tell me what starbase modules did, like what a command module does or a warehouse or a dock, and how many i need if i want this or that.

That should be in the Sotspedia once it gets updated. Till now all you really need to know is in order to upgrade a starbase you need to build the maximum of each module.

Stevo
29-10-2011, 03:27 PM
Some gameplay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kull1TIW6Jw

ChainsawHands
29-10-2011, 03:28 PM
Statement from Fred Wester, everyone's favourite CEO of Paradox: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?567065-State-of-the-Game

vinraith
29-10-2011, 03:45 PM
Complete disaster of a launch. I have every faith that Kerberos/Paradox will fix it, but between this and the semi-stealthy Steam-locking they've lost a hell of a lot of good will.

Fiyenyaa
29-10-2011, 04:15 PM
Complete disaster of a launch. I have every faith that Kerberos/Paradox will fix it, but between this and the semi-stealthy Steam-locking they've lost a hell of a lot of good will.

This is pretty much my verdict, too.

It seems to me that Kerberos have bitten off more than they could chew (since the release was pushed back on more than one occasion, reportedly) and simply haven't had the time to correctly implement all the features they wanted to.
Still, all the elementary bugs regarding interface and polish seem pretty odd to me. You'd have thought they could have nailed them even if they hadn't correctly implemented the crew/energy/supply dynamic for ships, or whathaveyou.

vinraith
29-10-2011, 04:23 PM
I will say that Paradox is handling this very well on their end. Wester's statement was appropriately humble and genuinely classy. If you read between the lines on the Pdox forums it looks a bit like they got sandbagged by Kerberos on this one, actually. We'll see how it all plays out...

Wooly Wugga Wugga
29-10-2011, 04:25 PM
Didn't they stuff up the release of Magika and then go on to say how they would not make the same mistake again?

You'd have to be rather silly to pre-order the next Paradox game or buy it on release day. Sooner or later their customers have to learn that empty promisses mean nothing.

TillEulenspiegel
29-10-2011, 04:29 PM
It seems to me that Kerberos have bitten off more than they could chew
I see what you did there.

I do find it slightly confusing that both companies have names that are 1) somewhat generic (this is Kerberos (http://web.mit.edu/kerberos/) to me), and 2) Greek.

archonsod
29-10-2011, 04:52 PM
You'd have to be rather silly to pre-order the next Paradox game or buy it on release day. Sooner or later their customers have to learn that empty promisses mean nothing.

Well no, I just don't expect software to be flawless on release.

vinraith
29-10-2011, 05:00 PM
Well no, I just don't expect software to be flawless on release.

That, and we have a vested interest in keeping the one of the last strategy developer/publishers afloat and making games.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
29-10-2011, 05:06 PM
I can accept that games aren't going to be bug free at release but both Magika and by the sounds of it SotS2 are completely and utterly unplayable buggy messes.. At some point a publisher has to realize that a minimum amount of quality assurance is required at release.

My main objection is that Wester promised that the next release wouldn't be the mess that the last one was. If this release is anything to go by then he's just insulting his customers and we as customers should expect better treatment from publishers.

I don't want Paradox to go out of business, I just want them to learn that they need to have some respect for their customers.

How many unplayable games should we buy before deciding that enough is enough?

vinraith
29-10-2011, 05:17 PM
How many unplayable games should we buy before deciding that enough is enough?

As long as they fix them I honestly don't care if they're a bit of a mess at release. If I did, I wouldn't have been a Paradox customer for the last ten years, and indeed couldn't be a grand strategy gamer at all. The first few months are a paid beta, maybe they should just call them that and be done with it. Complex strategy games need extended testing by a large audience, I'm fine with that.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
29-10-2011, 05:39 PM
As long as they fix them I honestly don't care if they're a bit of a mess at release. If I did, I wouldn't have been a Paradox customer for the last ten years, and indeed couldn't be a grand strategy gamer at all. The first few months are a paid beta, maybe they should just call them that and be done with it. Complex strategy games need extended testing by a large audience, I'm fine with that.

Fair enough. I just don't have money to spurge on games that don't work and I don't have the time to waste as a beta tester and I can do without the frustration. Also, balance testing and help ironing out bugs is very different from releasing a completely unplayable game which is what Paradox have been doing. It's fairly obvious that SotS2 is unplayable and that the code should not have been released in this state under any objective measure.

Scroll
29-10-2011, 05:44 PM
Yeah I'm prepared to wait for it to be fixed, it's far less hopeless than Elemental was at release and still kinda is.

Might as well wait for the proper release as I don't really have the time to commit to it properly as it is.

archonsod
29-10-2011, 06:00 PM
I can accept that games aren't going to be bug free at release but both Magika and by the sounds of it SotS2 are completely and utterly unplayable buggy messes..


SotS II is working fine for me. Note the problem is not the game doesn't work, it is in fact working pretty well. What it doesn't have is polish; most of the tooltips are missing, the sotspedia is mostly empty and the manual is woefully inadequate. It'd be more accurate to say the game is perfectly playable; if you already know how to play it.

Heliocentric
29-10-2011, 06:04 PM
As long as they fix them I honestly don't care if they're a bit of a mess at release

I know its not like these guys are Obsidian, leaving a chain of half finished games behind them.

*braces for impact*

Spinoza
29-10-2011, 06:27 PM
FYI there is a petition you can sign on Paradox forum for non -steam version of the game.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
29-10-2011, 06:34 PM
SotS II is working fine for me. Note the problem is not the game doesn't work, it is in fact working pretty well. What it doesn't have is polish; most of the tooltips are missing, the sotspedia is mostly empty and the manual is woefully inadequate. It'd be more accurate to say the game is perfectly playable; if you already know how to play it.

I'll admite I haven't played it so I'm going by people saying that buttons like "Create New Game" aren't working, etc.

Fiyenyaa
29-10-2011, 06:36 PM
SotS II is working fine for me. Note the problem is not the game doesn't work, it is in fact working pretty well. What it doesn't have is polish; most of the tooltips are missing, the sotspedia is mostly empty and the manual is woefully inadequate. It'd be more accurate to say the game is perfectly playable; if you already know how to play it.

I wouldn't use the words "working pretty well" myself. I was getting an awful lot of crashes, there are features that are alluded to in game that aren't implemented correctly (such as crew-energy-supply), and there are interface problems up the jacksie.

vinraith
29-10-2011, 06:39 PM
FYI there is a petition you can sign on Paradox forum for non -steam version of the game.

Here's a direct link, for those interested. Even if you're ok with Steam, give it a sign anyway if you support the notion that customers should have a choice about these things.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566981-The-Non-Steam-Version-Request-Sign-Here-If-You-Want-It-1-post-person

karandraz
29-10-2011, 06:56 PM
When i first saw this thread i was a little confused, them games out? My pre-order says its not shipping till november! I guess the retail boxes are a little behind the digital release? maybe this is a blessing in disquise. I hope they get it sorted by the time it arrives, i dearly like the opportunity to chase the guys in our current sword in the stars campaign around on a shiny new map :)

archonsod
29-10-2011, 07:08 PM
I wouldn't use the words "working pretty well" myself. I was getting an awful lot of crashes, there are features that are alluded to in game that aren't implemented correctly (such as crew-energy-supply), and there are interface problems up the jacksie.

Haven't had it crash myself, crew/energy/supply is most certainly working correctly.

vinraith
29-10-2011, 07:11 PM
Haven't had it crash myself, crew/energy/supply is most certainly working correctly.

My version refuses to run full screen, and the main menu has no buttons on it half the time. I haven't bothered to try and start a game, and probably won't for a month or two under the circumstances.

Inverselaw
29-10-2011, 07:21 PM
for me the game "functions" no crashes so far, and just a bit of optimization work necessary.

No my problem is that thers a sots 2 puzzle game overlayed on top of the regular space game. post-patch they removed the starbase descriptions, so now i have even less information. Then theres the economy screen with all sorts of sections and sliders and no explanation what they do. This isint a wait for the patch comment so much as a wait for the community to write a wiki comment.

Otherwise, I really like some of the design decisions they made for the game. Its going for a much more fleet and logistics oriented space management with fleets married to a naval space station and with admirals that have special (undocumented) traits. all the ship movements are done through missions which is certainly a different and interesting way (please let us group multiple fleets in the same order though) I really like it when games try to do this, like when MOO3 had this concept of support and picket ships that you needed to put around your heavy hitters.

Fiyenyaa
29-10-2011, 07:55 PM
Haven't had it crash myself, crew/energy/supply is most certainly working correctly.

Really? When I played, it didn't change in any way when you put in different modules. I should have thought that putting in different generators would change at least the energy value, wouldn't you?

Firkragg
29-10-2011, 10:28 PM
My version refuses to run full screen, and the main menu has no buttons on it half the time. I haven't bothered to try and start a game, and probably won't for a month or two under the circumstances.

For full screen, have you tried alt+enter? Worked for me.

And I have to say, looking over the twitter feed http://twitter.com/#!/SwordoftheStars, does give the impression that they are working their asses off. Hats off to them for that *tips hat*.

vinraith
29-10-2011, 11:30 PM
For full screen, have you tried alt+enter? Worked for me.


Yup. Made the screen go black for a second, then when it came back it was still windowed. Very strange. I haven't tried it with the latest patch, since I uninstalled the game. I'll come back in a couple of months, when they should have released the game to begin with.


And I have to say, looking over the twitter feed http://twitter.com/#!/SwordoftheStars, does give the impression that they are working their asses off. Hats off to them for that *tips hat*.

I honestly don't doubt that they are, and I'm sure they'll fix it up. Beneath the bugs and incomplete features the design looks great, so I think it'll be an excellent game when it's done. I just wish, for their sake, they'd waited awhile to release it. They're going to get a lot of negative word of mouth and some downright poisonous reviews out of this release, and there's no reason it needed to be that way.

vinraith
30-10-2011, 12:21 AM
Here's a note of explanation from one of the core Kerberos people:

http://arinndembo.com/?p=743

In short, it was release now to get a cash infusion or go under. Considering that this kind of release has been known to kill completely solvent companies, I suspect it won't be doing them any favors. I have serious doubts that we'll ever see those promised expansions.

TillEulenspiegel
30-10-2011, 01:23 AM
And I have to say, looking over the twitter feed http://twitter.com/#!/SwordoftheStars, does give the impression that they are working their asses off. Hats off to them for that *tips hat*.

The last survivors of my team, including me, were up until 5:30 am this morning working on Sword of the Stars 2.

STATE OF THE TEAM: Exhausted in every way.
I really hate to see this. If they were truly teetering on the brink of collapse and could not possibly keep operating for a few more weeks, could not secure a small bit of extra cash from Paradox or a bank or anyone, then okay - I don't know what to say.

But working that way is almost never productive. If you're exhausted, are you doing your best work? No. You're making mistakes and probably creating bugs. It's bad for your health and bad for your game. You may be panicking, but you really just need some sleep. I don't have the citations, but I'm pretty sure that past 60 hours/week, programmers aren't actually getting more done.

Inverselaw
30-10-2011, 02:20 AM
I would be pretty damn amazed that paradox would let one of its flagship developers go under. Also its kinda sad that the developers of what is pretty much THE modern 4x game somehow didnt manage to make enough money to pay for the next one.

Hensler
30-10-2011, 03:47 AM
Is that what happened here... they were out of cash and had to ship it in this state to keep going?

arathain
30-10-2011, 04:17 AM
I've got this running fine, although screen transitions could do with being a lot quicker or it's going to get a little annoying.

I've played a dozen or so turns, nice and slowly to try and figure things out. I'm having the same problems as inverselaw- there's clearly a very deep game here, well presented, but I'm having a bit of a hard time figuring out what anything actually does, which leaves one making all sorts of decisions without really knowing why. What do any of the space station modules do? How about all the sliders on the government screen? Thank goodness the auxiliary ship modules seem to show up in the very patchy encyclopedia, because otherwise I'd be clueless as to what a Camel did over a Semper Fi.

The manual provides details on some stuff, but leaves a lot of the core concepts untouched. Supply is clearly a crucial concept, possibly replacing the old fuel of SoTS. Ships come with some, and there are supply ships instead of tankers. Military stations seem to have a supply radius. How does this work? Do I only need my supply ships outside this radius?

Admirals: what do their traits and skills do, and how can I get more of them, since I need them for fleets?

If I do a feasibility study on a tech, do I still have to research the whole darn thing before finding out it doesn't work?

I'm interested enough by what I see (and I've invested actual money, more than I've paid for a game in a long time). I want to learn the answers. As it stands, though, it might take more time than my current life priorities permit.

TsunamiWombat
30-10-2011, 08:54 AM
Everything about this is a travesty. Their update is buggier than their initial release, which I could at least play.

Releasing an unfinished game for a CASH INFUSION? How does that WORK? Essentially they're relying on me not wanting to torture myself trying to get a steam refund (which is the only reason I havn't gotten one) to keep my money.

Fine, I won't get a refund, but screw them and every game they will ever make from hereon out.

rsherhod
30-10-2011, 12:50 PM
This whole thing is such a damn shame. I love SotS and would hate for Kerberos to go under, especially if they don't manage to produce any of the add-ons they have planned. I was especially looking forward to surface combat.

I went from vanilla SotS to having all the add-ons in a very short space of time. Unlike most people, I didn't consider vanilla SotS to be incomplete. I actually regard the add-ons as genuine extras, a few of which I would have happily done without. That makes it all the more sad, as there's no reason why this couldn't have been a fine game to start with that gradually expands into something huge.

Hanban
30-10-2011, 03:37 PM
Anyone know where I can find descriptions for the sections? I'm trying to figure out how to build a deep scan vessel but I have 0 idea which section does what. The sotspedia is empty in the sections-section.

vinraith
30-10-2011, 04:18 PM
Anyone know where I can find descriptions for the sections? I'm trying to figure out how to build a deep scan vessel but I have 0 idea which section does what. The sotspedia is empty in the sections-section.

There's a player run "figuring stuff out" thread over on Paradox's forum that may be of help:

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?566970-What-does-this-do-Information-gathering-post!

Hensler
30-10-2011, 06:25 PM
I just realized that Kerberos is the same developer that made Fort Zombie, and that game is still a mess that they seem to have given up on after a lot of patches. I understand they did a great job with post-launch support with Sword of the Stars I (it already had 2 expansion packs before I even tried it), but I just wanted to point out that they've launched a pretty incomplete product before this.

vinraith
30-10-2011, 07:34 PM
In fairness, Fort Zombie was a discount title that was primarily a testbed for Northstar, and priced as such. That's not to say I approve of their handling of it, especially considering how brilliant the underlying idea is, but it's certainly not the same case as SotS2. In a very real way, though, if they don't support SotS2 to an acceptable level they are simply going to be dead as a developer, I think we can trust their intent on this one.

vinraith
30-10-2011, 08:52 PM
Reinstalled and played a bit. It's dramatically improved with the newest patches, though it's still rough around the edges. There's a fantastic 4X game in here though, I'm really looking forward to where they take it.

Hanban
30-10-2011, 08:55 PM
Cheers for the link!

Yes, there's an amazing game here, somewhere deep inside. With patching I can see myself losing weeks to this. At the moment it gets a bit too frustrating at times.

Wrongshui
30-10-2011, 09:34 PM
Suppose I'll pop out of lurk mode to comment on this.

It looks fantastic and I really dig the presentation of the game (very spacey) but currently playing it is a chore.

If things, financially speaking, at Kerberos are not as bad as the rumours suggest in a month or two of solid patching refinements I imagine this will be a great 4x game.

At the moment though playing it just puts me off.

Moraven
30-10-2011, 11:40 PM
Since the lack of tooltips and some missing ecylopedia entries, I went back and played some SotS 1 to relearn the game.

The couple big things that are difference and kinda hinderance to learn with no tutorial I found are:

1) Movement
Before you had a Move button, where you clicked your fleet then told it where to move.

Now you RClick the location you want to do something at and designate a Mission. This then takes you do a different screen which shows all capable fleets in range/sector. I dislike this since there is a short pause between screen changes and takes a ton more time to do the same thing. Why can I not select the fleet around one of my planets and tell it to go Survey a system from the main galaxy view?

2)Stations
You now need to use construction fleets to develop various stations at your planets.
Notably Science Stations early to help boost research. Then you have to upgrade them. So many clicks and screen changes, especially when you want to construct new stations (Can order a station 1 per fleet, can not queue construction multiple) and upgrade stations.


Research tree view is reversed... its like you are transversing around the circle, instead of being inside it and viewing the tech. Very annoying.


I will give it a good try. But really, I might just end up playing the first one again.

vinraith
31-10-2011, 01:30 AM
A (very well done, IMO) statement from Kerberos on this whole mess:

http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=22033

archonsod
31-10-2011, 02:25 AM
Really? When I played, it didn't change in any way when you put in different modules. I should have thought that putting in different generators would change at least the energy value, wouldn't you?

Erm no, since they're listed as auxilliary generators. As in back-up generator, on the off chance your main generator vanishes in a big explosion which would otherwise leave the ship drifting and powerless. Your actual energy output is determined by your energy technology.

Inverselaw
31-10-2011, 02:28 AM
interestingly your limited to like 10 fleets for your whole empire + large naval bases can command a few ships ad hock. I like the whole fleet is married to a base idea, the specific mission system too. The whole thing could be done in the main screen however.

Dont build civ stations, if you upgrade them, adding new modules crashes the game. also lots of weird bugs in battles. Also whatever part of the code that tells you what you can and cant build based on tech is borked, modules that you shouldent be able to build yet show up anyway and the disappear when you start getting sub techs for it. Rather hillarious that I spent 5 hours in a game that is so broken, its much more broken then i though originally whatever causes the crashes the chance increases with time.

That post has a bit of a cop-out, the code they intended to send is basically just as broken as the accidental beta they sent first. He keeps talking about missing features, but i havent seen missing features ive seen broken features. if the monday patch really kills all the auto-crashes and broken bits we will already have a very interesting game(or maybe they will fix the game by cutting off the broken parts).

Maybe sots2 problem was excessive feature creep after all.

archonsod
31-10-2011, 04:16 AM
Dont build civ stations, if you upgrade them, adding new modules crashes the game.

Only affects Sol Force AFAIK, you should be able to upgrade anyone else's fine.

DigitalSignalX
31-10-2011, 04:28 AM
I'm really looking forward to this game in a year when it's finally finished.

Tikey
31-10-2011, 01:44 PM
I've been playing for a while. I'm no experiencing many technical issues (take in consideration that I haven't played much) so my biggest problem has been learning to play. Still there are some terrible UI decisions. Take for example something as simple as the player setup screen. Here is sots prime player setup. (http://steamcommunity.com/id/tikey421/screenshot/595826512543334373)
You choose your race and then select the different options. All simple and neat.

Now SOTS 2 player setup (http://steamcommunity.com/id/tikey421/screenshot/595826512543309095/?)
It has a better presentation but for the same options you had on screen previously now you have to select the option you want to edit, meaning it's more hassle than before.

This seems like a silly example but it's like this in the whole game, lots of things are complicated without need (and I'm talking about complicated not complex). It's seems that presentation was more important than usability.

Wrongshui
31-10-2011, 03:24 PM
I can get up to about turn 80, then it crashes on end turn. I can reload the last autosave and usually get past it but then it just crashes on the next.

It's annoying me, I want to play it, it's so purdy!

Fiyenyaa
31-10-2011, 04:34 PM
I can get up to about turn 80, then it crashes on end turn. I can reload the last autosave and usually get past it but then it just crashes on the next.

It's annoying me, I want to play it, it's so purdy!

We're expecting a stability patch today. Here's hoping it solves some of the issues people are having.

archonsod
31-10-2011, 06:51 PM
It has a better presentation but for the same options you had on screen previously now you have to select the option you want to edit, meaning it's more hassle than before.

It's identical to before, all they've done is tidied it up so the scrolling windows only open when you click on them. You also have additional options regarding empire name and colours.

It's actually a better UI than the first; you can now see what your chosen race is going to look like before starting the game.

Pijama
31-10-2011, 06:57 PM
Obligatory.



***


http://i.imgur.com/YBVvJl.jpg

Tikey
31-10-2011, 07:11 PM
It's identical to before, all they've done is tidied it up so the scrolling windows only open when you click on them. You also have additional options regarding empire name and colours.

It's actually a better UI than the first; you can now see what your chosen race is going to look like before starting the game.
Hiding options behind clicks isn't tiding, it's making me do more to achieve the same.
There are improvements certainly, but there is a lot more steps to achieve the same things as before, which is a little bit annoying.

Stevo
02-11-2011, 08:53 PM
Okay it is Wednesday now and the games been patched I think 3 times or is it 2? What is it like at the moment? Looking forward to picking this up sometime in the future.

archonsod
02-11-2011, 09:45 PM
Running a lot smoother for me. Still the odd CTD. It's now a lot less of a chore to play it. Still a lot of stuff not fully implemented / working, but it's largely the strategic game that suffers - battles (even though there's still no AI on player ships) are still incredibly fun though.

Supposed to be a fairly hefty patch inbound on Friday.

Stevo
02-11-2011, 09:58 PM
I think the one problem with Sots 2 is that it takes forever to get into the meat of it and thus it's much harder to write up a opinion of it or make a Let's Play video.

snortmort
02-11-2011, 10:38 PM
Free DLC's for anyone who has purchased, or who does purchase, between now and Nov 30th.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?568294-Free-DLCs-until-Nov-30th&

Tikey
03-11-2011, 02:40 PM
Free DLC's for anyone who has purchased, or who does purchase, between now and Nov 30th.

http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?568294-Free-DLCs-until-Nov-30th&

wow, that's nice.

Hensler
03-11-2011, 05:11 PM
At least they're handling their colossal fuckup well.

Pijama
08-11-2011, 04:03 AM
How good it is now, fellow RPSers?

rsherhod
08-11-2011, 09:57 AM
My guess is it won't be in a really fit state until at least the end of November. I don't plan to get it until some time in the new year. Might pick it up early if it appears in a Christmas sale, because then it can just sit there, but otherwise I'll wait until I've heard that things have significantly improved.

Fiyenyaa
08-11-2011, 11:13 AM
How good it is now, fellow RPSers?

Still pretty shaky, although there's been a fair few patches (three or four as of now, I think) which have squashed some bugs.
I think the ETA for a truly playable version of this game is going to be measured in months, which is a real shame because the combat looks flipping ace, and there are some really nice concepts introduced. Oh well - hopefully they'll keep at it.

Stevo
08-11-2011, 01:02 PM
I caved in and bought it recently. So far the only main failures iv gotten is the screen greying out sometimes when you click the menu button to go save which is obviously quite frustrating.

The main problem being is that there isn't much game here. It's like 3/4's finished or something. The real time combat is only half down since their is no AI for your own ships so a lot of the time they stand still while your frantically trying to micro every unit.

Hopefully in the next month it ll be fantastic.

Hensler
12-11-2011, 07:08 PM
Steam just spent a long time downloading what looks like a pretty small update. Looks like they are making good progress of fixing this thing.

karandraz
20-11-2011, 02:24 AM
Did any of you chaps get the reatil boxed version? just opened mine up and the massive poster in there made me chucke!

Alex Bakke
06-12-2011, 05:30 PM
Any improvements over this past month? Might get it for myself for Christmas.

Tikey
06-12-2011, 05:45 PM
They've been patching it regularly and it's quite playable now. There's still bugs but the game is shaping up quite nicely.
I've yet to play it more extensively but most of my problems have been solved. And a bug I had the other day was patched yesterday so I think that by Christmas the game will be in a pretty good state.

Alex Bakke
06-12-2011, 06:02 PM
Cool, thanks - Just making sure it's still not completely broken.

mr.doo
07-12-2011, 05:38 AM
How good it is now, fellow RPSers?

Still broken, sadly.

Wrongshui
07-12-2011, 12:30 PM
It's not broken, it just isn't finished.

A month or so and you'll probably have all elements working in game, month after that balancing of all these elements will be complete enough to have a functioning game.

Then we can see if it is broken. I have my worries about the combat.

Hensler
21-04-2012, 03:02 AM
So now that the game has had over 40 patches... has anybody given it a try? Or read anything about if it's complete yet? I remember a lot of people saying that if we gave it 6 months, it would be amazing, like the original Sword of the Stars.

Item!
21-04-2012, 06:10 AM
So now that the game has had over 40 patches... has anybody given it a try? Or read anything about if it's complete yet? I remember a lot of people saying that if we gave it 6 months, it would be amazing, like the original Sword of the Stars.

I had a quick sweep through the steam forums and then a subsquent prod at the game a few days ago.

Short version; stick with the original, plus expansions. SOTS2 is still unfinished.

mr.doo
21-04-2012, 07:02 AM
Yup, pretty much what Item said.
It's great that they are working so hard on fixing the game (probably to pave the way for the inevitable expansions/dlc but whatever) but there's still a long way until it could be deemed as finished.

mentor07825
21-04-2012, 01:33 PM
Yup, pretty much what Item said.
It's great that they are working so hard on fixing the game (probably to pave the way for the inevitable expansions/dlc but whatever) but there's still a long way until it could be deemed as finished.

That's really sad, as I want to play the game. I refuse to spend money though on an unfinished product. And with so many months already past this is kinda sad. A few RPS peeps on Evolve has asked if it's worth to get and I told them to play it safe and play the first one.

I will most likely be purchasing this as soon as it's finished, but at this rate it could be at the end of the year.

Hensler
21-04-2012, 04:51 PM
*sigh* It looked like such an amazing game. I wonder how much longer they will keep pumping money into it?

Tikey
22-04-2012, 06:08 PM
As soon as I have some time I'll play it and tell you about my experiences.
It'd be fun to organize a multiplayer match.
Is someone interested?

Hensler
22-04-2012, 06:23 PM
As soon as I have some time I'll play it and tell you about my experiences.
It'd be fun to organize a multiplayer match.
Is someone interested?

I actually bought it and then got a refund from Steam when it first came out. If it comes up on a Steam sale or any other sites at a reduced price anytime, I'd be willing to try some multiplayer, just because I love the original so much.

Crux
07-05-2012, 07:05 PM
Are there any proper guides that explain general strategies, stuff I need to do and why? All I've found are guides that explain the functions of various buttons and screens like a basic manual would. Asking every single little thing on the forums doesn't sound attractive either.

archonsod
07-05-2012, 09:24 PM
I assume you're talking about the beginners guide? http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?570329-Beginners-Guide

The Wikia has some interesting stuff - http://sotsii.wikia.com/wiki/Sword_of_the_Stars_2_Wiki

And you can always check the threads on Kerberos' forums, there's a fair bit of newby guides on there (and I think there's some AARs on the Paradox forum these days).

It's somewhat hard to cover basic strategies; in general you can take multiple approaches with each race, most players tend to find what they prefer and run with it. For new players it's recommended you start with the Tarka since they're relatively straightforward - no special drive rules to worry about, and their ships are heavily designed to take the enemy head on so you don't need to worry about complicated manoeuvres. They tend to have a preference for ballistic weapons but get a decent chance at most energy weapons too, while economically they're somewhat average.

arathain
08-05-2012, 01:50 AM
Archonsod, would you care to render a quick judgement on the game in its current form?

Hensler
08-05-2012, 02:28 AM
Green Man Gaming and Gamestop Downloads both have the game for $14.99 now.

riadsala
12-07-2012, 11:29 AM
So, does anybody have anything to report on the state of this game now? Is it worth picking up for beer money in the Steam Sale?

(good for a play through and admiring the pretty spaceships and clever movement mechanics before feeling somewhat sad that it's not actually a good game?)

Giaddon
12-07-2012, 11:47 AM
It's $7.50 on Gamersgate right now, and probably not worth it.

riadsala
12-07-2012, 12:11 PM
So the devs didn't make good on their "promise" to fix it? What's wrong with the game anyway? Similar mess to Elemental?

TillEulenspiegel
12-07-2012, 12:26 PM
Last patch was less than two weeks ago, and they're frequent (http://www.patches-scrolls.de/sword_of_the_stars2.php). The promise is still in progress, not abandoned.

riadsala
12-07-2012, 12:34 PM
Ah, that's good!

Patrick Swayze
12-07-2012, 12:40 PM
Play Endless Space instead.

Even in Alpha it was far far better than the mess that was SOTS 2.

I'm sure SOTS 2 will be good in a few years, at least.

Batolemaeus
12-07-2012, 04:04 PM
Counterpoint: Endless Space is shiny but shallow, buy Sots2 instead.

The devs have been patching regularly and the game is playable. Haven't had a crash in a long time and most mechanics are working properly. The game is a bit imbalanced and some things take a bit too much micromanagement, but all in all it is an enjoyable experience with a deep combat system and races that are very unique in playstyle.

Wrongshui
12-07-2012, 10:37 PM
Countercounterpoint : Sots2 is still unfinished nine months after release, buy Space Empires 4 instead!

Tikey
19-10-2012, 02:05 PM
I got this on my e-mail today:


Hey folks!

Sorry for the long wait but I am extremely happy and proud to give the all
clear signal and invite you all back to a bright and shiny SotS2. While
“all clear” in no way means support for the game has ended or that we have
no plans for additions, it does mean that the game is in the shape we would
have wished it to be upon release. From here we will be going on to a
regularly scheduled set of updates that continue to fill out and flesh out
the SotS2 universe as well as adding new maps, scenarios and plenty of
quality of life suggestions.

We would like to thank Paradox for continuing to distribute Sword of the
Stars/ Sword of the stars 2 and look forward to working with them on any
future expansions. We also want to issue a heartfelt thanks to the players
who stood by us in those dark early months and who believed us when we said
this game would be fixed. We owe a great deal to the players who stuck it
out through all the dozens of updates and fixes and kept reporting the bugs
and posting their saves. Their input has made for a bigger and better SotS2
than could have been achieved at release even under the best of conditions.
Everyone who enjoys playing this game from this date on, owes those
impromptu testers a great deal of thanks. And finally for those of you who
are reading this now and booting up the game, we would like to thank you
for your patience and welcome you back. There is a great game waiting for
you now and a big universe waiting to be explored.

The Future:
As said, this announcement does not mean the end of SotS2 support. In fact,
should any of you be curious, feel free to come by our boards and see our
plans to support SotS2 indefinitely. For now, you can look forward to your
next SotS2 update in approximately 3 weeks and it should include such tasty
treats as:
--Selectable Teams at startup
--Revised Empire economics screen
--Even more AI tuning
--SotSpedia tuning and more entries
--And a pack of new maps.

While too far down the line for particulars, I can tell you that the
following update after that should see the return of scenarios and a treat
or two for the holidays!


So once again, I would like to thank you all for your patience and
understanding during the road back and hope you all enjoy this game as it
was meant to be!

Martin E. Cirulis
CEO/Creative Director
Kerberos Productions

Long story short: Game is officially ok now.

Stevo
19-10-2012, 02:28 PM
Define ok? Im sorta half lost as to what is actually in the game anymore!!

Tikey
19-10-2012, 02:44 PM
I assume the worst bugs are out, stability and all other issues that should be ok.
Scenarios aren't in yet, but it seems they'll be in a few weeks.
Basically all the basic functionalities seem to be working as intended, from now on it's just adding to the game and fixing balance and small bugs. (this is what I can gather from the logs, I haven't checked the game yet)

Stevo
19-10-2012, 02:47 PM
I assume the worst bugs are out, stability and all other issues that should be ok.
Scenarios aren't in yet, but it seems they'll be in a few weeks.
Basically all the basic functionalities seem to be working as intended, from now on it's just adding to the game and fixing balance and small bugs. (this is what I can gather from the logs, I haven't checked the game yet)

Are tool tips in now for research and others now in place?

Tikey
19-10-2012, 02:50 PM
I have no idea. They'd been fixing tooltip stuff for a long time but I haven't tried the game for months. I've just been poking around the update logs (http://www.kerberos-productions.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=25704) to see what was fixed.

Stevo
19-10-2012, 02:52 PM
May reinstall it but my black log is mounting up with X-Com, Borderlands and UNity of Command