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View Full Version : What do you all think about X3: Terran Conflict?



FunnyB
01-11-2011, 06:25 PM
I'm a bit curious as to if this game is good or not... It seems quite cool, with all the open gameplay and such. I'm a big fan of the old game Freelancer... How is the gameplay in X3 compared to Freelancer? Is it playable with keyboard and mouse, or is joystick a must?
Are there cool dogfights, or is it all trading and management?

sinister agent
01-11-2011, 06:38 PM
You'll spend the first 30 hours doing the same 50p profit cargo runs, having to reload any time you take the slightest scratch, because repairing that damage costs 400 times your cash.

It's a game I really want to like, and I respect what it does, but it's so goddamn slow and in parts, lacking (there's limited interaction with other pilots, which is a real shame as some more of that would make the game feel much more alive), and generally awkward.

It's the best X game I've played, but it is an acquired taste. It's more about running a simplistic business (in that you have no people management to do) than about being adventurous. I personally control it with a 360 and xpadder, but still need to use the keyboard for a fair few functions. Mouse control is doable though.

There is fighting in it, but if you want to stand a chance of making any money out of fighting (as opposed to spending more money on repairs than you make killing), you'd have to spend months of your life trading first.

Spider Jerusalem
01-11-2011, 06:42 PM
it's not like freelancer :(

squareking
01-11-2011, 06:47 PM
Echoing what sinister agent said.

Giaddon
01-11-2011, 06:51 PM
If you want more Freelancer, DarkStar One and Independence War 2 are both decent bets, and can be bought cheap these days.

archonsod
01-11-2011, 06:54 PM
You'll spend the first 30 hours doing the same 50p profit cargo runs, having to reload any time you take the slightest scratch, because repairing that damage costs 400 times your cash.


The Terran campaign itself avoids that. You get three free ships in the first couple of missions for a start ...

sinister agent
01-11-2011, 07:38 PM
Yeah, I tried that. The ships you get are completely broken, so you have to save up for repairs anyway. It leaves you in basically the same boat.

I'd choose Independence War 2 over Darkstar One. It forces you to be a pirate, true, but it's just a more fun game. Darkstar One isn't bad, but it's quite dull.

Tikey
01-11-2011, 07:48 PM
You can exit your ship and repair the ships yourself. But it's soooo tedious to do it.

sinister agent
01-11-2011, 07:52 PM
You can exit your ship and repair the ships yourself. But it's soooo tedious to do it.

Huh, I didn't know that. I knew about getting out of the ship, but how do you repair them? Is that what the laser thing does? I assumed it was a weapon.

Tikey
01-11-2011, 08:18 PM
Yeah, the laser thingy. Right click by default I think.

Skalpadda
01-11-2011, 08:29 PM
It requires patience, that's for sure. Comparing it to Freelancer.. even though the combat is serviceable it's not a very good space combat sim compared to the glory days of the genre. There's a hell of a lot of game in there though, especially if you find yourself enjoying building up a trade empire, and a great sense of progress as you build up your financial might and a fleet of ships.

Or you could play as a pirate, or a lone trader, or anywhere on the scale you want. The amount of freedom you have is staggering but it comes at the price of the game being very slow paced and it doesn't give you much incentive to do anything. There's a campaign but it's not very interesting and there's a wide variety of quests given out from stations and ships but no real incentive apart from money to do them. You'll have to enjoy setting your own goals to really enjoy the game.

In my current game I've just done some trade runs, used the profits to set up automated traders and then got myself a decently fast ship with some weapons, shields and a jump drive to roam the galaxy with. It's a nice relaxed experience, exploring the game world (which is huge) while I watch my pile of credits get bigger and bigger. Sometimes I'll hunt down some roaming pirates and I've had to flee from alien destroyers. I've come across battles between huge capital ships and dozens of fighters, explored uncharted sectors, found and claimed abandoned ships in asteroid belts.. There's a lot to see and in a game where, whatever you do, you'll spend a lot of time flying from one place to another it's worth mentioning that it often manages to be absolutely gorgeous.

I have really mixed feelings about it. There are enormous flaws but at the same time there isn't really anything else like it (that I've seen at least) and it's pretty cheap to pick it up now, so if you think you'd like to make up your own fun in a giant sandboxy universe why not give it a go? :)

KauhuK
01-11-2011, 08:48 PM
I'd wait for the next X game and see if that has improvements for the hard beginning. Also a bit offtopic but is Galactic Civilizations 2 a good game?

cowthief skank
01-11-2011, 08:57 PM
If you like space combat and haven't played it, I can recommend Freespace 2. On gog for cheap. There is a mod available which greatly enhances the graphics, and even a port of the first Freespace to this mod.

squareking
01-11-2011, 09:01 PM
If you like space combat and haven't played it, I can recommend Freespace 2. On gog for cheap. There is a mod available which greatly enhances the graphics, and even a port of the first Freespace to this mod.

Should be noted that FS is more of a guided narrative affair, with missions and clear objectives, while you travel your own path, more or less, in the X series (though there are campaigns to follow in X3 as well). FS is effing brilliant though and the FSO mods elevate it into something holy.

sinister agent
01-11-2011, 09:05 PM
I'd wait for the next X game and see if that has improvements for the hard beginning. Also a bit offtopic but is Galactic Civilizations 2 a good game?

It is indeed (also that's probably a good idea about waiting for the next X game - it sounds quite promising). It captures the compulsive "one more turn" feeling of Civilisation but mixes it with spacey goodness, less obtuse combat, and more unique research and diplomacy. You won't find better AI in a strategy game. Some call it a bit dry, however I disagree.

It's very easy to pick up and play for such a complex game, and there's a real feeling that you have options, rather than being inevitably forced into conquering everyone. Diplomacy is particularly fun/tough - some people will simply never like you, so you'll have to find a way to get rid of them and/or manipulate them into doing what you want. I won my first campaign having fought only two battles - a scuffle with a few fighters and an invasion of an enemy homeworld. Everyone else I united peacefully, except for the two races I paid my allies to wipe out, because I couldn't be bothered to fly over there and do it myself.

If you're not sure, try the demo. I did, and bought it as soon as the demo was over (Well actually, I pirated it, because it was a Saturday and I wasn't getting paid until Monday, but dammit, I've got to keep going. An unusual moment of impatience from me there, which hints at how fun Galciv is. Excellently, when I bought it on Monday, I was able to auto-update the version I'd pirated without any fuss).

KauhuK
01-11-2011, 09:16 PM
Thank you sinister agent for your reply on Galciv 2. I'll try the demo.

Megagun
01-11-2011, 09:17 PM
The thing is, many of these games often mentioned focus heavily on one aspect, and are insanely great at that.

X series? The best 3D space trading/space business simulators.
FreeSpace series? The best 3D space combat simulators ('old-school style')
Space Rangers 2? The best 2d top-down turn-based space RPG
EvE Online? The best space MMORPG Excel sheet (I kid, I kid!)

Freelancer is.. slightly different. It doesn't truly excel in anything specific. The trading is average, the persistent universe is average, the combat is average, and the story has its flaws. The combination of everything, however, is the best of its kind. It just doesn't seem to focus on anything truly specific to really excel at.

That is why recommending X3: Terran Conflict to those who have played Freelancer is perhaps not the best idea. Sure, there are loads of similarities, but X3:TC focuses heavily on the business simulator/trading thing.

You should probably ask yourself the question: "What did I like most about Freelancer?", and pick the game you want to play accordingly. Was it the combat? Look no further than FreeSpace 2. The trading and business? X3:TC is your thing. Something else? There's bound to be a game that matches what you loved about Freelancer.

archonsod
01-11-2011, 09:46 PM
Space Rangers 2 is officially the bestest game ever though, so I assume everyone automatically owns it.

In fact, I heard the UN is close to declaring people who don't own it unpersons.

Wizardry
01-11-2011, 09:49 PM
Space Rangers 2 is officially the bestest game ever though, so I assume everyone automatically owns it.

In fact, I heard the UN is close to declaring people who don't own it unpersons.
Even I like Space Rangers 2.

TillEulenspiegel
01-11-2011, 09:55 PM
Freelancer is.. slightly different. It doesn't truly excel in anything specific.
I've never understood the Freelancer love around here. It's a half-decent space action game, but that's about it. Wing Commander: Privateer is better in every way except mouse control. Grab a joystick and the Gemini Gold remake.

Taidan
01-11-2011, 10:01 PM
I find that Elite still provides me with the perfect mix of accessible trading and space combat.

Give one of the modern remakes a try. Oolite (http://www.oolite.org/) is free, and also fantastic.

Kelron
01-11-2011, 10:08 PM
Even I like Space Rangers 2.

But it's not truly turn based.

On topic, if you want an action game like Freelancer then X isn't it. It's slow, but I don't find it tedious. If you get into it, there's a deep and satisfying game that lets you do everything from being a mercenary fighter pilot to small time trader to fleet commander to owner of a huge trading empire. The combat mechanics aren't as detailed or as fun as some games, but I wouldn't call them bad by any means. If combat is all you're looking for then X will be disappointing, but as part of the larger game it works fine.

Wizardry
01-11-2011, 10:10 PM
I've never understood the Freelancer love around here. It's a half-decent space action game, but that's about it. Wing Commander: Privateer is better in every way except mouse control. Grab a joystick and the Gemini Gold remake.
Ever played Space Rogue? Was a spiritual predecessor to Privateer.

soldant
01-11-2011, 10:43 PM
I've never understood the Freelancer love around here. It's a half-decent space action game, but that's about it. Wing Commander: Privateer is better in every way except mouse control. Grab a joystick and the Gemini Gold remake.
Freelancer did one thing exceptionally well: exploration. Freelancer space wasn't realistic but it was most definitely pretty. Flying through molecular clouds, finding hidden wrecks and bases, jumpholes, asteroid fields for mining... plus just about all the features were named and had a backstory. Absolutely nothing else has managed to recapture that exploration aspect. Freelancer has a ridiculous number of flaws (like the entirely static economy and game world) but in terms of accessibility and exploration it's still the best.

As for the X series: I love X3 and TC but I have major issues with them. Firstly the interface, for all the changes, is still abysmal. It's a mess of menus and branching, and the mouse-driven interface is only half useful. At the core of it they're still using the same menu trees that have been around since the first X game. Even something as simple as ordering a ship to move around becomes a mess of menus. You know what would easily solve most of the fleet control problems? A 2D RTS-style map. Which they've already half-implemented, but doesn't go far enough. That'd make the entire thing so much easier from a command perspective.

The other issue I have is the learning curve. Unless you read the forums it's pretty much a vertical climb, because the game sure as hell won't tell you much (or if it does, it's hidden in cryptic menu options). I can fully appreciate a game that requires you to actually work to earn gameplay elements (unlike Oblivion, where everything is open from the start) but the X games take it to the extreme to the point where some people let the game play itself overnight so they can accumulate enough money. That's absolutely ridiculous. The forums are full of useful information... but a lot of it is quite poorly written and often descends into jargon or arguments.

Even with all that the X games have a fantastic dynamic universe which lets you do pretty much anything, so the complexity is well worth fighting if you can manage it. I think most of the game's problems could be solved with a complete UI overhaul. Which is why I'm excited for the next X game, because for all the things that people don't like (i.e. removal of a lot of player-piloted ships) there's a lot of things which look to make the game a lot more streamlined and playable. Lots of people call it "dumbing down" but the X games are the perfect example of where needless complexity doesn't make a better game.

Basilicus
02-11-2011, 12:56 AM
It's a nice relaxed experience, exploring the game world (which is huge) while I watch my pile of credits get bigger and bigger. Sometimes I'll hunt down some roaming pirates and I've had to flee from alien destroyers. I've come across battles between huge capital ships and dozens of fighters, explored uncharted sectors, found and claimed abandoned ships in asteroid belts.. There's a lot to see and in a game where, whatever you do, you'll spend a lot of time flying from one place to another it's worth mentioning that it often manages to be absolutely gorgeous.

This. A thousand times, this.

I've got a lot of patience for redundant gameplay, but even I just don't feel the UBERTRADE route of X3. I prefer to hop in, do some space tourism, enjoy the sights and scenes, make some friends and enemies when I'm feeling it, and run a few trade routes now and again.

It's a great game for kicking back and enjoying the universe that's been created, rather than trying to dominate everything. I applaud those with the patience to establish trading empires, but I'm perfectly happy to just scoot around having adventures while others stress over the best supply chains, and it's a seriously great game precisely for that kind of exploration.

Grizzly
02-11-2011, 07:20 AM
The thing is, many of these games often mentioned focus heavily on one aspect, and are insanely great at that.

X series? The best 3D space trading/space business simulators.
FreeSpace series? The best 3D space combat simulators ('old-school style')
Space Rangers 2? The best 2d top-down turn-based space RPG
EvE Online? The best space MMORPG Excel sheet (I kid, I kid!)

Freelancer is.. slightly different. It doesn't truly excel in anything specific. The trading is average, the persistent universe is average, the combat is average, and the story has its flaws. The combination of everything, however, is the best of its kind. It just doesn't seem to focus on anything truly specific to really excel at.

That is why recommending X3: Terran Conflict to those who have played Freelancer is perhaps not the best idea. Sure, there are loads of similarities, but X3:TC focuses heavily on the business simulator/trading thing.

You should probably ask yourself the question: "What did I like most about Freelancer?", and pick the game you want to play accordingly. Was it the combat? Look no further than FreeSpace 2. The trading and business? X3:TC is your thing. Something else? There's bound to be a game that matches what you loved about Freelancer.

Get Wing Commander: Privateer - Freelancer was heavily based upon that game (You know - Chris Roberts...). Its very old, but quite fun. Also on that line is Darkstar One - which in my opinion, is in some points better then Freelancer (less boring missions outside from the storyline, for example).

X3: TC is a different beast entirely (its basically a successor to Elite), but it is a good and fun beast IMO. There is also a lot of mods for it. Most of them do keep that slow start thing (many people seem to like that), but offer different combat mechanics, for example. However, the slow pace does have this nice advantage: its a very relaxing game.

--

And as for Freespace 2... It is not really like Freelancer. HOwever, it is completely awesome. You should really try it.

lunarplasma
02-11-2011, 08:25 AM
Elite (and Frontier II which I played a lot in the day) was pretty slow-paced, yeah. It took the route of letting you take as long as it actually takes in real time to travel to anywhere interplanetary (with interstellar travel achieved with FTL). So, travelling the distance from Neptune to Earth would take days and days.

Man, that was slow. xD

Spakkenkhrist
02-11-2011, 08:44 AM
Elite (and Frontier II which I played a lot in the day) was pretty slow-paced, yeah. It took the route of letting you take as long as it actually takes in real time to travel to anywhere interplanetary (with interstellar travel achieved with FTL). So, travelling the distance from Neptune to Earth would take days and days.

Man, that was slow. xD

But in Elite you had the jump drive and Frontier you had 4 levels of time acceleration.

Frontier still remains my favourite game, there is an OpenGL version available of it here: http://tom.noflag.org.uk/glfrontier.html and also a hi-res version of First Encounters: http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/Hires/hiresffe.html

lunarplasma
02-11-2011, 08:54 AM
But in Elite you had the jump drive and Frontier you had 4 levels of time acceleration.

Frontier still remains my favourite game, there is an OpenGL version available of it here: http://tom.noflag.org.uk/glfrontier.html and also a hi-res version of First Encounters: http://www.frontierastro.co.uk/Hires/hiresffe.html

RE: Frontier Hi-Res
Whoa.

FunnyB
02-11-2011, 11:23 AM
I must say, it still sounds interesting. Trying to build up a trade empire might be a lot of fun. But it definitely sounds like X3 is a massive time sink....

Thanks for the other suggestions as well everyone! :D

mike2R
02-11-2011, 01:58 PM
Disclaimer: X3:TC fanboy here.

While all the criticisms about the learning curve, nested menus, and general interface sub-optimalness are entirely valid, I feel the need to right a short piece on the sheer awesomeness of the game and why I love it.

Firstly is the atmosphere of the game. I remember in my first game, flying in some small craft, and seeing some weird lights in the distance. Flying towards it I realise there are two fleets of capital ships going at each other for all they're worth, great balls of energy bigger than my ship flying between them. What's the quote? "I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser gate." It was like that.

Then there are the multiple approaches, you can do any, one or all of these; if you find one dull, simply don't do it. There are so many ways to make money. This is not amazingly apparent when you are new to the game to be honest, but it is true all the same. You can create a trade empire - manually trading or automation as you prefer. You can build stations (and vast multi-station complexes) and manufacture goods for profit and your own use. You can go the pirate route, threatening traders and making them drop their cargo, or capturing ships from people (pilots of small ships will sometimes bail out, capital ships can be boarded with marines). You can scavenge, which is great in the very early game. Find a pirate sector, or one where two belligerent races tend to meet and watch for fights, then grab things like missiles from the wreckage. Then there are the missions; there are a number of scripted plots, which have in most cases very good rewards for doing them. There are random missions, which can be a little underwhealming to start with since the cash payments are very low, and you are only able to complete a small percentage of them. But I find building up the capabilities to do the different types of missions one of my favourite parts of the game, and doing missions increased your various ranking, which increases payments dramatically.

My classic early-mid game setup has me using a TM (Military Transport) class ship as a home base. This is a smallish ship about the same size as the TS class trade ships. But in exchange for less cargo space, it has docking bays for 4 fighter class ships. I have a cargo bay life support system installed, so I can run the larger types of taxi missions in it, and smaller freight missions. In it I have my M3 (Heavy Fighter), which is a well equiped combat ship - although still tiny compared to the capital ships; generally it is what you spend the very early game saving up for. This is used for combat missions, piracy, beating up passing pirates etc. With the M3 I have an M5 (Scout), small, fragile, cheap and extremely fast. This is also equipped with cargo bay life support, so I can run fast single person taxi missions, and also a mineral scanner for asteroid scan missions.

In support I have a fast TP (Personnel Transport) ship, which sits around docked at a solar power (fuel) plant. If I get a taxi mission which demands luxury transport (ie a TP), I dial it up and it jumps to my location. Ditto if I need a fuel resupply, or want someone to collect dropped loot for me. Or I send it shopping to get missiles or satellites or whatever. I also have a TS (trader) which carries stuff that won't fit elsewhere and basically functions as a tender. Again I have that sitting somewhere safe and dial it up when needed.

With that setup I can tackle almost every type of mission the game throws at me, and love pottering around the universe, looking for opportunities, be they missions, random invasions by the rogue AI Xenon, or simply the unwary. At the same time using remote ships to do a little trading, map the universe, drop a satellite network, and anything else that takes my fancy. And that is before you get to what most people consider the real meat of the game.

I could write so much more, but this is embarrassingly long already. One additional major point in its favour is the quality of the forum. Especially with this game so long from release, but even when it was new, it is full of people with a genuine passion for the game and is probably the most newbie friendly game forum I've ever seen. Partly because of this, and partly because the game is so open that each newbie generally has a unique set of questions that are genuinely interesting to read and answer, starting your own thread is highly recommended if you start playing the game and get confused.

squareking
02-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Thanks for the write-up, mike2R. I read similar posts and really feel the itch to spend quality time in the game.

Gergin
02-11-2011, 05:06 PM
Disclaimer here as well as I am also an X3: TC fanboy as well as a fanboy of Space Sims or anything dealing with space in general.

I basically had to force myself to stop playing the game so that I could play other games as I had already put so much time into X3. The game has a steep learning curve as there's simply so many things you can do but the rewards are quite delicious. Watching a 90 factory complex churn out missile after missile for you to use with a small fleet of transport ships automatically supply it with goods from another one of your complexes is an experience like none other. The game is a bit slow burning but once you get your first factory up and running, you'll understand the appeal and why people can put so many hours into it. You'll soon have sprawling complexes of factories in multiple sectors, each one set up for some specific purpose. This one may produce food products for your other factories using energy cells from your solar power plants set up in some other sector. You'll also probably have a fleet of trade vessels ferrying goods between your factories.

Course you can also just completely ignore the whole empire building/business management side of things and focus purely on shooting other ships until they explode. There's plenty of aspects to combat and while it might not be as fast paced as something like Freespace 2, it is still quite harrowing. You are also able to get in anything from a minute scout to a lumbering capital ship with many options in between.

The game also has a fair amount of mods to go with it, some minor, some making major changes, and some being complete overhauls. If you're going to play at all, I would suggest getting a cockpit mod at the very least. It adds an incredible amount of immersion to the game. Please note that modding the game in any way will invalidate you from uploading your data to the Egosoft website for "scoring" purposes.

TL:DR Version. If you're willing to learn the ropes and invest some time, X3: TC will reward you greatly and you'll love the game. If you're expecting to just hop in and start shooting things you're going to think the game is an overwhelming mess.

mike2R
02-11-2011, 05:50 PM
How could I forget... No thread about X3:TC is complete without a link to Nuklear-Slug's awesome Squiddy McSquids possibly short life (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=222994).

FunnyB
07-11-2011, 09:44 PM
OK, small update.

I caved and bought X3:TC this weekend. After playing it for a few hours, I got to say, I really like it.
Started as a Humble Trader, sold the Discoverer to get more spending money, lost about half of the cash on bad deals (damn ore and meat cahoonas! LOL), relocated a few sectors and quintupled my cash. I'm going all in trader at the moment, especially since it's freaking impossible to find any cheap weapons (impulse ray emitters or whatever they are called are always sold out). I'm gonna try to earn some more cash, then buy another vessel to automate some of the trading.

I've got to ask, for a first time player, should I keep playing the vanilla game for awhile, or should I go for some modding? If the latter, can anyone of you recommend any good mods?

Mistabashi
07-11-2011, 10:19 PM
OK, small update.

I caved and bought X3:TC this weekend. After playing it for a few hours, I got to say, I really like it.
Started as a Humble Trader, sold the Discoverer to get more spending money, lost about half of the cash on bad deals (damn ore and meat cahoonas! LOL), relocated a few sectors and quintupled my cash. I'm going all in trader at the moment, especially since it's freaking impossible to find any cheap weapons (impulse ray emitters or whatever they are called are always sold out). I'm gonna try to earn some more cash, then buy another vessel to automate some of the trading.

I've got to ask, for a first time player, should I keep playing the vanilla game for awhile, or should I go for some modding? If the latter, can anyone of you recommend any good mods?

The only mod I would say is essential is the official bonus pack (get it from the egosoft website). It adds a few trade scripts which give you some extra automation which will be invaluable further down the road when you start setting-up bigger complexes, but crucially it adds "Missile Defense Mosquito" which allows you to use the cheap, crappy Mosquito missiles as an automated missile defense system. It can make a huge difference when your in combat with larger numbers of ships, as they have a tendency to all spam missiles at you at once and it can be rather frustrating.

Humble Merchant is my favorite start, although I wouldn't have sold the Discoverer - as I guess you're starting to figure out most trading is best done remotely with you piloting something faster and more versatile. As Mike2R mentioned above a TM class ship makes a great 'home base' in the early game (before you can afford something bigger with some hangar space), my personal favorite due to its speed and cargo space is the Chokaro, although it requires you to stay on good terms with the Yaki if you want to buy one, and you have to track down their base. Keep on the look out for people offerering second-hand ships for cheap, they can be very hand in the early game and can sometimes be sold for good profit if you can be bothered to spend ages fixing them up with your repair laser.

Impulse Ray Emitters do tend to be in short supply, particularly at the start of the game as it can take a little while for the economy to get into full swing. IRE and small sheild factories are often a good investment as your first stations (along with Space Weed and Space Fuel, although you have to be careful where you build those as some governments consider them illegal and the local Military/law enforcement will destroy them if they find them).

EDIT: Also, you should make it your priority to get hold of a Jump Drive. Most Corporate HQs sell them, as well as a few other places, so keep an eye out on your travels. You'll need to raise about 100k to buy one, and it requires Energy Cells to use, but it really opens-up your possibilities.

Kelron
07-11-2011, 10:24 PM
There's no mods I'd deem essential, get the bonus pack but otherwise wait until you have more experience of the game. If there's some aspect of gameplay you'd like to see improved or expanded, take a look at the script & mod library (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=216690) - there's a decent chance someone's already done it.

Locating equipment can be a bit of a chore sometimes. Get to know where the high tech sectors are, places with lots of weapon and shield factories, and drop a navigation satellite there so you can see prices and stock remotely.

FunnyB
08-11-2011, 06:53 AM
Thanks for all of the tips! I'll be sure to check it all out!
I've got one more question for now:

I've bought some trading software for my TS ship, and I'm wondering, will I have to buy the same software again if I choose to switch to another ship? Or can you transfer the installed software someway between different ships?

QuantaCat
08-11-2011, 08:25 AM
PS: there are different starting roles for X3, which make the game go more into the direction you want. Also, there is a list of derelict spacecraft on the net, which is actually a great way to introduce yourself to the universe, as it involves some exploring, and gives you enough money to start your first factories.

I got upto an entire factory complex, then I stopped playing for a while, and after that decided to start anew, only this time, with the money for all I had in my last savegame from the beginning. (ahhhh, mods and trainers, lovely)

50m credits sounds like a lot, but it really isnt.

Mistabashi
08-11-2011, 09:26 AM
Thanks for all of the tips! I'll be sure to check it all out!
I've got one more question for now:

I've bought some trading software for my TS ship, and I'm wondering, will I have to buy the same software again if I choose to switch to another ship? Or can you transfer the installed software someway between different ships?

If you dock two ships at the same station you can transfer any goods, equipment and software from one to the other (software acts just like any other equipment though in that you can't duplicate it). Easiest way is to select "landed ships" from the station menu then select your other ship and choose "freight transfer with" (or something like that, can't quite remember the wording).

Alternatively if one of the ships is fitted with a Transporter Device (one of the rarer items) you can transfer things between them (including yourself) as long as they're close enough.

Software will be a continual pain in the arse for the duration though as you can't stockpile it (you can only have one of each per ship); much time will be spent jumping newly purchased ships from one end of the galaxy to the other so you can install all the bells and whistles you require. When money becomes less of an issue its a good idea to hang on to any cheap M4/5 ships you have spare as you can use them to 'store' software and Jump-Drives (they can be handy for other things too).

mike2R
08-11-2011, 12:52 PM
Agree with sticking vanilla (except for the bonus pack) - there are no real must-have/everyone-uses mods for X3:TC so it is very much down to personal taste if/how you modify your universe, and you really need to get a feel for vanilla before you can know what it is you want to improve. But once you are more experienced, have a look - there are some truly excellent mods available, and they can be added mid-game.

A few tips for trading - you may well have figured these out for yourself, but these are easy to miss:

If you want to remote trade (ie trade via a ship you are not piloting yourself), you will need to have the Trading System Extension installed on the ship that you are piloting (the one you are piloting yourself, not the remote ship).

If you want to see prices in a sector other than the one you are in, you need an asset in that sector. An asset is anything that appears on the asset screen ('r' key), so a station, ship or satellite. Therefore, dropping a network of satellites (navigation or advanced are both fine) will allow you to see prices across a large area; there is an option in the asset screen to hide satellites, which you will want to use to avoid clutter.

With an asset in sector and the Trading System Extension installed you can even trade at shipyards remotely, so by dropping a nav sat there, you can buy and outfit ships from the other side of the universe.

Gergin
08-11-2011, 05:20 PM
This thread is making me want to reinstall and invest another 100 hours into the game.

Must resist until X: Rebirth comes out.

jquinn914
08-11-2011, 08:19 PM
If freelancer isn't even considered on these lists, these other games must be spectacular.... It's actually upsetting I thought I just came across one of my top 10 games of all time after picking it up last week but everyone seems to think differently. Maybe it's because I'm not a niche space sim gamer heh. I've also heard freelancer's big overhauls: Crossfire and Discovery, are awesome.

soldant
09-11-2011, 01:09 AM
A few tips for trading - you may well have figured these out for yourself, but these are easy to miss:
See this is what my biggest problem is with the X series. I love them, they're easily some of the best in their class, but the interface is abysmal. I can't believe that after all this time they still haven't managed to do something to modify it. Oh, they added mouse control. That's great, but it doesn't change the fact that it's a series of nested menus.

Which is why I like the direction X: Rebirth is taking.

Skalpadda
09-11-2011, 02:13 AM
I'm not really sure it could be made that much simpler without affecting the fundamentals of how the game works in Terran Conflict though, given both the huge number of ships and stations you have to manage (if you're setting up a trading empire at least) and the multitude and complexity of the orders you can give them.

It could probably be presented (and certainly explained) a little better though.

Kelron
09-11-2011, 02:58 AM
It wouldn't necessarily have to be simpler, but the interface could stand to be a lot more functional. People make fun of EVE's Windows 3.1 interface, but it works and it's efficient for dealing with the large amount of information you require in such a complex game.

Simple improvements like being able to have multiple windows open at once, move and resize them, and issue orders with the mouse rather than scrolling down menus would make X a lot easier to play.

soldant
09-11-2011, 04:05 AM
It wouldn't necessarily have to be simpler, but the interface could stand to be a lot more functional.
Bingo.

Despite letting the mouse manipulate the GUI, it's still largely based on keyboard shortcuts. For example selecting items in map screens. Why can't I make full use of the mouse? Why do I have to rely on the keyboard so much? Why the single window thing like Kelron just mentioned? They really needed to overhaul a lot of the interface with X2, but they didn't. The same interface has been taken from the first X game and progressively added to, resulting in a mess of nested menus. I think ultimately a lot of it could have been solved by trying to implement a better RTS-style interface and game map that actually used the mouse properly. It's like trying to play an RTS with only a keyboard. Also there are some features which are pretty poorly developed, like the fleet options. Just adding ships to a fleet can be painful, and even then it's still a mess of nested menus to get them to do something.

Then again Rebirth seems to be going in a different direction by removing a few different gameplay elements, so maybe Egosoft just put it all into the "Too hard" basket and decided to make another game. Which is fine by me, I'm still interested!


EDIT: Oh, and on the subject of complex orders... how many of those orders are really necessary, and couldn't have been put into a much better command interface? A lot of it seems like needless complexity. It's like playing a spreadsheet at times. Watching a fleet engagement is entertaining. Setting it all up? Not so much.

mike2R
09-11-2011, 05:20 PM
Yeah, no arguments about the deficiencies of the interface. There are some cases where mods can help a lot; the CODEA mod makes running a carrier a breeze for example - I've only played with it at the low end of what it is capable, but it seems designed to control an entire multi-carrier and assorted capital battle group. As a small example, when I finish combat my "salvage wing" of Falcon Haulers launches from my Panther automatically, collects all the dropped wares, and then docks (using their docking computers, if equipped!), all with no input from me. But that doesn't change the fact that the menu system is very clunky.

I'm also really looking forward to X:Rebirth... I don't want to get my hopes up too much regarding the UI; decent UI is HARD after all, and Egosoft are a small dev. But just the chance to design the interface from the ground up, without all the legacy artefacts, has got to make it a huge improvement.

Cooper
09-11-2011, 07:35 PM
It's the kind of game they need to hire someone with any kind of experience in operating system interfaces. Or even complicated office software interfaces (and so NO one involve in the new MS office, because removing customisation completely is SUCH a step forward...)

As much as I want to get into X3, it gives the feeling of doing very specific work with Excel and yet having had all of the customisation functionality removed, meaning everything you need to do often is behind a set of nested menus then in a dialogue box that's a nightmare to navigate through...

FunnyB
09-11-2011, 10:40 PM
My tiny trading empire has grown to two Mercury ships...

Man, is it easy to get completely screwed on certain deals. Anything food related has set me back several thousand everytime. Ore and energy though, lots of spacebucks to be made there :D

Kelron
09-11-2011, 10:56 PM
My tiny trading empire has grown to two Mercury ships...

Man, is it easy to get completely screwed on certain deals. Anything food related has set me back several thousand everytime. Ore and energy though, lost of spacebucks to be made there :D

The economy is totally mechanical and you shouldn't be losing money on trades. Buy anything when the stock is high and you'll pay below the average price. Sell to stations where the stock is low and they'll pay above average. I can't remember if the average prices are shown in-game somewhere, but just don't buy things when the stock is low and you'll do fine.

Mistabashi
09-11-2011, 11:19 PM
My tiny trading empire has grown to two Mercury ships...

Man, is it easy to get completely screwed on certain deals. Anything food related has set me back several thousand everytime. Ore and energy though, lost of spacebucks to be made there :D

Make sure to drop a satellite in every sector you visit so you can check the price/demand of all the stations remotely. Helps to avoid wasting time on goods that aren't in demand :)

Once you have a bit of money in your back pocket you should start looking to some of the higher-priced wares as the profit margin is much better. Crystals are often a good buy if you happen to find a Crstal Fab with a surplus of stock, then just check any of the systems with a lot of solar power plants and look for any that are running low.

Skalpadda
09-11-2011, 11:34 PM
Getting a jump drive (Terracorp HQ is the easiest way to find them early in the game) and doing some delivery quests is an easy way to make money with just a TS ship early in the game.

I'd strongly recommend looking into the automated sector trader script as well as it lets you get an automatic revenue stream with a relatively small initial investment and they don't need much babysitting (as long as you don't train them near hostile sectors). They start very slow but start to pull in serious money once they've levelled up a bit. It's absolutely worth investing in a good transport ship if you're setting up an automatic trader though. The Mistral is probably the best TS class ship in the game (relatively fast, lots of shielding, big cargo bay) but it can only be found in one shipyard (as far as I know) and a fully upgraded one will cost you a pretty penny.

lejosh
10-11-2011, 01:05 AM
I'm thinking of getting a joystick for this as I find using the mouse quite frustrating.

What would you X3 fans recommend?

mike2R
10-11-2011, 03:39 PM
Doesn't seem like this thread has attracted many joystick types... :) I've always used mouse and keyboard myself, although I've thought about trying a 360 controller on it since I've heard people say they work pretty well. Others seem to use all sorts of high-end sticks.

It's a fairly common topic on the X Universe forums, so I'm sure you can find some recommendations in old threads there - I'd use Google, the forum search shows that Egosoft is at least consistent when it comes to usability :)

squareking
10-11-2011, 03:46 PM
I've tried TC once with my Saitek Cyborg and didn't care much for it. I've been getting along fine with M&K for TC and break out the Saitek for Freespace 2. Then again, I have a handful of buttons on my mouse, which makes a few actions slightly more bearable.

Kelron
10-11-2011, 06:42 PM
I have a Saitek Cyborg, it's fine for other games although I wish the base was heavier. I tried using the joystick with TC but prefer mouse.

FunnyB
14-11-2011, 10:06 AM
Another update...

I now own a wheat farm in Elena's Fortune, a Silicon Mine in Ore Belt and one high-levelled Sector Trader is working for me. With a slow trickle of funds rolling in, I will now attempt to get a few combat missions done and explore the universe a bit more outside the Argon sector of space...

It feels like you've always got more stuff and plans to carry out in the game. There's always another way to make more credits....

mike2R
14-11-2011, 01:14 PM
Sounds like the game has well and truly got you :) Welcome, fellow addict!

A word of caution on Elena's Fortune: you are just north of pirate space there, and large pirate fleets have been known to cause... issues, despite the heavy military presence. One wheat farm is an acceptable risk, but I wouldn't expand it much beyond that.

Cooper
14-11-2011, 01:28 PM
I asked this in the comments, but here might be the target audience for my question.

After the Show me the Games sale; Evochron (mercenary or otherwise) - is it worth it?
Given I love space exploration sims, I want to love X3 but can't get over the shite UI and how slow it is, is something from the evochron series a better bet?

Mistabashi
14-11-2011, 03:59 PM
I asked this in the comments, but here might be the target audience for my question.

After the Show me the Games sale; Evochron (mercenary or otherwise) - is it worth it?
Given I love space exploration sims, I want to love X3 but can't get over the shite UI and how slow it is, is something from the evochron series a better bet?

Well, I only played the demo (and it was ages ago), but it isn't really the same sort of game, it doesn't have the economy and station/empire-building stuff that X3 has. As far as "speed" goes it's a much more realistic flight model with higher flight speed, but you don't get SETA or the convenience of jump-gates all over the place, so it seemed to suffer from the traditional space sim problem that most of your time is spent flying from one place to another. As for UI, a lot of it is done via the HUD/displays in the cockpit, I wouldn't say it's the pinnacle of elegance and you'll have to remember a lot of keyboard commands in typical simulation style, but the integration of the cockpit does at least add to the immersion factor.

It didn't seem like my cup of tea, much too dry and sim-y for me. As far as missions go I think it's all auto-generated, and a major complaint about the game at the time was that is was just boring and repetetive in single-player. It does have multi-player options though, which I think is where it's main appeal lies.

soldant
15-11-2011, 12:40 AM
Still reading this thread just to see what FunnyB is up to. Kind of makes me want to go back and give it another try.


I asked this in the comments, but here might be the target audience for my question.

After the Show me the Games sale; Evochron (mercenary or otherwise) - is it worth it?
Given I love space exploration sims, I want to love X3 but can't get over the shite UI and how slow it is, is something from the evochron series a better bet?
I've played quite a bit of the Evochron series because it looked closer to Freelancer. In some ways it is, but I think there's a distinct lack of polish present in all of the games of the series which just puts me off. Combat is frustrating and largely based around exploiting an AI flaw and slipping and sliding all over the place. Planetary landings are pretty cool but they're also pretty pointless except to go down to the station. Trading is fairly dull but reasonably well handled. Collision models are all messed up, particularly with the jump gates that offer a quick transit between various destinations (though they're not mandatory). The tutorial goes on for ages and explains almost nothing. The UI isn't anywhere near as bad as X3 but it's not Freelancer either.

It's by no means a bad game at all, it's actually fairly good, and I enjoyed it for quite a while. But the series needs more time to cook before it becomes a big contender. The latest release is easily the best of the lot and it's probably closer to Elite than the other games I've played (without actually being a direct port of Elite), so if you're after something like that then you might be more inclined to give it a shot. Try the demo.

Mistabashi
15-11-2011, 01:10 AM
Still reading this thread just to see what FunnyB is up to. Kind of makes me want to go back and give it another try.

Indeed, I have a save from my last foray into X3 where I was getting pretty far along with the hub plot (which requires some monumental factory complexes to complete), the only thing keeping me from going back right now is the fact that my graphics card died so I'm relegated to an old one until I get a replacement.

@ FunnyB: You should post a few screenshots to document your progress, I'm sure they would be appreciated :)

FunnyB
15-11-2011, 08:25 AM
@ FunnyB: You should post a few screenshots to document your progress, I'm sure they would be appreciated :)

I will try to do that tonight, since I am currently at work! :D

FunnyB
15-11-2011, 08:27 PM
And here we go!

First, a pic taken om my very first spacewalk!
362
I was out repairing a used ship I bought. After that, I resold it for twice the amount.

363
The pride of my empire! My very first ship! An Argon Mercury, fitted with a crapload of equipment for space exploring and trading. This is were I spent my first 15-20 hours of gameplay. Since I have not yet recieved the credits to afford a TL class ship, this is still my go-to ship when it comes to trading.
My level 17 or something Sector Trader uses a similar ship, though not as fully equipped.

364
My wheat farm, placed in Elena's Fortune. Granted, it doesn't give a lot of credits, but it still contributes.

365
My silicon mine in the Ore Belt. This baby brings in a lot of credits, but still struggles with it's large consumption of energy cells. And speaking of troubles....
366
See those smaller asteroids just above the silicon mine? Well, I had a small mishap when placing the mine, so the landing strip was pointing straight into a large asteroid. It played havoc with the autodocking and my NPC-ships. So, I had no choice but.... remove the asteroid. Violently.... :P

squareking
15-11-2011, 09:38 PM
Oh my, the pretty! FunnyB needs to start a LP thread and document the whole thing.

I really need to get my screen-tearing nonsense resolved so I can get back into this.

mike2R
16-11-2011, 12:59 PM
Nice! Whatever else the game is or isn't, it is pretty as you like.

What is your main player ship these days? I don't want to disrespect your faithful Mercury, but a budding space entrepreneur such as yourself should probably not be flying around in a TS :)

sabrage
16-11-2011, 01:48 PM
I hate all these space games because the gorgeous screenshots always make me want to play them. Likely because I don't see the horrible interfaces that mar most of them :/ Exactly why I bought/bounced off of Sword of the Stars.

FunnyB
16-11-2011, 03:16 PM
Oh my, the pretty! FunnyB needs to start a LP thread and document the whole thing.


Why thank you! I'm not sure anyone would want to read all that though! :D



What is your main player ship these days? I don't want to disrespect your faithful Mercury, but a budding space entrepreneur such as yourself should probably not be flying around in a TS :)

Well, I'm currently a bit low on credits, so I'm using the Mercury for trading runs, and a M5 Discoverer Raider when I need some fighting power (mostly because it was cheap). I'm definitely looking for a TL or a M6 or something, but those ships cost freakishly large sums of credits, and I'm definitely not making credits at a fast enough pace yet.

I was however thinking of adding a TP to my fleet, so I can make a few transport missions with that as well.

Does anyone have any other tips? I'd really like to get credits at a faster pace! :D

Kelron
16-11-2011, 04:47 PM
If you can get your hands on a decent M3 you could try capturing ships or doing assassination missions for money. If you want to stick to manual trading then try and get a nice big TS (like a Mistral) and equip it with a jump drive to get around quickly.

TP is a good source of income if you find the right missions (tours and other TP only missions). Unfortunately they are all randomly generated and may not show up for a while.

If you want more passive income, try building some more factories. You could either make a small complex with your existing factories (e.g. make food from your wheat, and sell that as well as the excess wheat) or place more individual factories. Alternatively get more sector traders going, although they cost a fair bit to set up and take some time before they bring in big money. I like to use the Economy and Supply trader script you can find on the forums, which makes them far more efficient and less prone to dying.

Mistabashi
16-11-2011, 05:27 PM
I second that, look for a decent M3 for combat. If you're hanging around Argon space at the moment look out for anyone selling Nova Raiders second-hand, that's a pretty decent all-rounder. Personally I have a bit of a thing for the Split ships due to their speed, but there's plenty to choose from. Another favorite of mine is the Yaki Tenjin, although it's rather hard to keep on their good side once you start doing combat missions.

The M6 (corvette) is a bit of a weird class, they aren't fast enough to work like a fighter and they turn like boats which makes them rather vulnerable to missiles and fighters, so they are definately a bit more of a challenge to fly well particularly if you have no other ships to back you up. There are some heavy variants which tend to fare better by having bigger sheilds and more turrets but they cost twice as much. I'd recommend sticking with a good M3 for a while and putting your money towards something that makes more economic sense like a TL (station building missions pay rather nicely).

mike2R
16-11-2011, 06:15 PM
Yeah, what Mistabashi said about M6s. Their slow turning makes fighter swarms a nightmare in them, even those that have decent turret coverage. Although that said, my most fun in TC combat was in an M6 Heavy Centaur which was supported by two TMs of a particular type which have ludicrous shielding (more than the Heavy Centaur IIRC), each of them carrying 4 x M4 which spammed missiles that they auto-replenished from their home TM; one TM carried Wasps and the other Silkworms. Flying into battle with my mini-fleet loaded for bear was fantastic.

A TP is a good idea, although if I were you I'd strongly consider getting a TM for personal use. If you can find Cargo Bay Life Support (can be tricky), you can use it to do many of the missions a TP can - you only have to have an actual TP for missions that specifically say so, or demand "luxury transport". And you can use it to jump you and your Disco (and M3 once you get one) across the universe and back. If you go the TM route, look for one that has decent speed (for missions and general ease of use) and ideally cargo space (doing cargo missions, and not having to resupply every five minutes). Shielding and weaponry are really not an issue for a personal TM - if it gets attacked you just jump it out.

If you haven't already, get a Mineral Scanner for your Disco so you can do asteroid scan missions; a jump drive is a good idea too, since the harder of those missions will ask you to travel a fair distance in not much time.

A TL is a great idea for making money - station build missions are great - but probably a long term goal at present.

Best way for quick bucks that I know - baring outright exploits - are return my abandoned (not stolen) ship missions. As you get higher reputation, the ships they ask you to return get bigger and more valuable. The universe is full of shipyards who pay good money for things like that :) Ripping of an abandoned ship mission will tank your rep with the race in question, but that is dealable with. If you try to keep the ship then you'll get police come after it, but if you sell it before the time expires then all you have to deal with is the blow to reputation.

FunnyB
16-11-2011, 07:08 PM
I'm thinking that a cheap TP might do well right now. I've also had a thought to save up enough credits to afford a solar power station and place it in Argon Prime. Nice crystal fab in the same sector and no shortage of stations that need energy. Only bad thing about it is that energy is fairly cheap, so you don't get much revenue per sold unit.

A TM would be a good project after that. What's the general going price for one of those? Not certain if I've seen one for sale yet.

How large of a reputation loss are we talking about if I sell a ship during a mission?

If you'd all like, I can keep on making small updates and posting some pics of my progress. If there is interest, I mean.

Mistabashi
16-11-2011, 07:49 PM
TMs go for a few hundred thousand credits depending on the type and your faction relation. You can check the encyclopedia to look-up any ship types you've encountered and where you can buy them - my favorite is the Yaki Chokaro but again you might have to work to get a good enough rep with them (and avoid killing any Yaki ships, which is kind of tricky given that they're basically a pirate faction).

As for TPs, look for something fast - generally the Split ships are the fastest but the Argon Express is pretty decent (Argon ships are usually pretty good all-rounders).

Solar Power Plants aren't a great money spinner since they cost so much and the profit margin is so small, generally you'll only want to buy them when you can afford to build a manufacturing complex so you can make them partially or fully self-sufficient.

I cen't remember exactly how the rep loss works, I think generally you'll drop one 'rank' (check your pilot status or encyclopedia to see your reputation with all the different races). Also remember that when you lose rep with a faction you will lose your Police license if you have one (Police licences automatically give you cash for destroying pirates and other invading ships in their sectors, and also allow you to use a freight scanner without getting into trouble).

mike2R
16-11-2011, 07:50 PM
Ah, I should have said: TMs are dirt cheap - a few hundred thousand, which is a big reason why they are so awesome.

Pretty much any shipyard will sell their race's one; the Argon is the Magnetar, although I'd avoid it as it is slow. Check your encyclopaedia, if you drill down through ships > $race > TM you can check the specs for all of them you have encountered so far, and locations to buy them if you have found them. Or if you don't mind mild spoilers, see them all here (http://eng.x3tc.ru/x3_tc_ships/list.php?class=2&race=0).

I don't go in for trade and station building very much, but I have heard it said that a 1MJ shield factory in Argon Prime is a good investment.

Trying to quantify rep loss, the best I can say is "a chunk". Not very much really, in terms of how long it will take you to earn back - you'll have high rep with the race anyway, since you need that to be given a high-end ship to return, so you shouldn't have to worry about them going hostile or denying you docking rights. Basically well worth doing if you are short of funds and someone expects you to return them their M6...

I don't think I'm the only one who'll enjoy some more updates and pics, go for it! It's one of the great things about this game; reading new players' experiences, and trying to answer their questions, is genuinely interesting.

FunnyB
16-11-2011, 08:17 PM
Lots of great tips! Thanks guys!

I think I'll go for a TP and a TM next then. I'll check the encyclopedia and determine where I can find the good stuff! :D

I forgot one question earlier... How large of a ship can be carried inside a hangar in another ship? Can you have a TS ship? Or a TP? Or only fighters?

Mistabashi
16-11-2011, 08:17 PM
Yeah, small sheilds (1, 5 & 25mj) usually tend to be in high demand, as do some of the lower-end weapons like Impulse Ray Emitters, Particle Accelerator Cannons and Silkworm missiles. Just make sure you put them close to a good source of Ore. In fact, since you already have an Ore mine you could link one on to that with a Complex Construction Kit, it'll make keeping it supplied much simpler. Just remember ot save before placing any station in case you put it too far away or it collides with something. Salvage Insurance can be purchased from the HQ in Home Of Light and allows you to save anywhere as opposed to having to dock, and an Advanced Satellite dropped in the sector will allow you to toggle the visual overlay on the sector map so you can better see where exactly you are placing a station.

Of course, that brings you one step closer to the horror of setting-up your first commercial agent to keep the complex running efficiently...

Definitely keep the updates coming, it's always fun to read :)

EDIT: the only ships you can dock in a hangar are fighters (eg M3/4/5). Bigger ships can carry lots of Ecells though, so once you can afford jump-drives and transport devices for most of your ships it isn't much of an issue.

Kelron
16-11-2011, 09:19 PM
There's a mod to let you dock TS inside capital ships. Makes keeping them supplied a lot less tedious. But I expect it will be a while before you need that one.

FunnyB
17-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Well, I bought a Magnetar. Mostly because I don't have enough reputation with the other races as of yet. I have hardly done any trading with them at all! :D
Next step will be to get a TP ready, look around for a few more missions, and perhaps set up another station. Maybe an ore mine, (the one I got now is a silicon mine), or one of those shield or weapon factories you all seem to be liking :D

377
Update: And here we have it! With my Disco docked!

Also got around to buying an Express. Got a transport mission that gave me 300k for moving some folk one sector. Now that's good! Otherwise I find it hard to be willing to play missions that pay less than 10k, and A LOT of the current missions have payments that weak.

Also, it's hard to decide what factory complex to build next. You have to find resources nearby, without having similar complexes in the same sector. It quickly becomes very complex to find something really worthwhile. Not to mention that there has to be a large demand and good prices in the nearby sectors. Still thinking about a shield factory though, but they are a bit pricy.

Mistabashi
18-11-2011, 01:10 AM
I can't remember exactly how mission rewards work, but I think it's mostly related to your faction standing and trade/combat rank (depending on the type of mission). You may also start to get harder & better rewarding missions as you complete more of that mission type, I'm not entirely sure.

One thing that I guess you've figured out is that the game doesn't stop you from taking missions which you aren't equipped to do, which can cause a lot of frustration at first (especially since the mission description won't always make it clear exactly what is required), but I think it's a pretty cool idea in general. Just don't bother with the "retrieve my stolen ship" missions, they almost always result in failure and rep loss since there's no guaranteed way to make a pilot bail-out.

Another thing that's always a good money spinner is Space Weed and Space fuel, although remember that these wares are considered illegal by many governents (check the encyclopedia), so when the local police find your Space Fuel distillery in Argon prime they'll set about destroying it. Of course, if you place it somewhere out of the way they may not find it, but there's also a number of "unkown" sectors that aren't government controlled, so they can make ideal locations for your illicit goods production. They tend to be pretty empty at first so business is always slow for a while, but once the various scout ships that populate the universe start to pass by you'll see traffic start to increase, and you can turn a completely empty sector into a hive of activity. The main drawback is that you will have to provide your own security force to protect against pirates and other hostiles - not sure what other hostiles you've made or come across yet so I'll leave it at that :)

Kelron
18-11-2011, 01:38 AM
Mission rewards are based on rank and faction standing, yes. Doing missions will make both go up fairly quickly.

Things like 5MJ shields and Mosquito missiles will attract hordes of NPC buyers, I'm not sure if they actually use them or take them to equipment docks to trade, but they will sell fast. Placing single factories can be a problem due to resources, but you can always do partial complexes rather than fully self sufficient ones. For example a complex that supplies everything except energy cells is relatively cheap (although for tech goods it may still be more than you can afford at this point), and it's easy to find a good source of energy cells for placement.

My first big building project is usually a closed loop shield and missile complex. It runs to about 25-30 million if you include an SPP and all the support that needs, but really rakes in the cash once it's set up. You can sell off all the excess intermediate products as well as the final goods, and it makes a nice foundation to add other equipment to later for a resupply base.

mike2R
18-11-2011, 12:34 PM
Well I tried to warn you about the Magnetar... that thing is slooooooooooow :) although I guess if you've been flying a Mercury around, it won't seem so bad.

Heh, thinking about it I bought a Magnetar my first game in TC, and flew it for many many hours. Same reason as you; I only had Argon rep. I would advise keeping an eye out for alternatives though, once you've got rep. It does look pretty sweet though (if you like the functional look).

Yeah just do missions and you'll increase whatever reps and ranks you need to get better rewards from them. Soon enough you'll be insulted if anyone offers you a measly 300k for your valuable time :)

FunnyB
18-11-2011, 07:12 PM
Mission rewards are based on rank and faction standing, yes. Doing missions will make both go up fairly quickly.

Alrightythen! I'll keep on taking a few missions... Perhaps I should move over to Boron or Paranid territory and build up a rep with those guys. I'm already a Argon Federal Guardian, so my rep with those guys is quite enough for the moment.


Things like 5MJ shields and Mosquito missiles will attract hordes of NPC buyers, I'm not sure if they actually use them or take them to equipment docks to trade, but they will sell fast.

OK! One of those is next on my to-do list. Now, to find a good sector to place it in... :D


Well I tried to warn you about the Magnetar... that thing is slooooooooooow :) although I guess if you've been flying a Mercury around, it won't seem so bad.

Yeah, it's quite slow. But since TMs aren't that expensive, I'll use it for now and get a faster one when I get the chance! :D

Mistabashi
18-11-2011, 07:39 PM
Perhaps I should move over to Boron or Paranid territory and build up a rep with those guys. I'm already a Argon Federal Guardian, so my rep with those guys is quite enough for the moment.

Yeah, definitely do this. I don't know how much of the universe you've explored yet, but it's rather big :)

The Argon sectors you start in when you choose the Humble Merchant start isn't all of their territory, they have lots of other patches elsewhere. I'd advise you to look for Teladi space where you should be able to find the Explorer Command software that allows you to send any spare M5's (or whatever fast ships you have) out to explore/map new sectors and plant satellites for you.

FunnyB
18-11-2011, 10:28 PM
I'd advise you to look for Teladi space where you should be able to find the Explorer Command software that allows you to send any spare M5's (or whatever fast ships you have) out to explore/map new sectors and plant satellites for you.

Sounds really interesting! I really need to check that out then.

Did a nice passenger run right now. Jumped two sectors, cashed in 1.5 million credits. That was quite nice!

380
I built a mosquito missile factory in Home of Light. Freaking awesome is all I can say. I don't even need to have a ship ferrying the goods out of the place. Other ships come by and buy up all the stock pretty much all the time!

381
And here's my Magnetar, hanging outside the factory. As you can see, it is now carrying both my Disco, and a cheap, used M4 Split Scorpion. Haven't had the time to equip it with everything yet, but things are definitely coming along great!

So I've had the game for almost two weeks now, and spent like 30 hours on it as of yet. It grips you quite easily if you have the time to learn all the basics and aren't afraid of searching for info online or asking. I definitely want to thank everyone in this thread for all the great info I've recieved.

More updates will follow if the interest is still there. My empire is just beginning... :D

ntw
18-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Keep the updates coming :)

Mistabashi
19-11-2011, 10:14 PM
Ok, despite the ageing GPU I'm forced to use at the moment I've decided to throw myself back into the game. You bastards.

The upshot is it's reminded me of a few rather useful/convenient features that made my life much easier when I figured them out:

1) You can add your ships to the left or right "monitor" by selecting them and pressing shift+1/2. This may seem rather pointless, but it's actually incredibly useful as gives you a way to quickly access that ship's menu by clicking the ship icon in the monitor panel.

2) In the universe map you can press any key to cycle between sectors beginning with that letter, this is really useful once you've explored further out.

3) There's some really useful features in your ship's command console that tells it to automatically re-stock energy cells, missiles and ammo whenever they dock at a station that sells them (or in the hangar of one of your own ships that has them in it's cargo hold). You can also set ships to "auto-jump" which makes it much quicker to order them about, eg you can select a ship on the other side of the galaxy and tell it to follow you and it'll automatically jump to your sector (assuming of course it has a jump-drive and enough E-cells).

Now I'm off to work on my crystal complex...

Grizzly
19-11-2011, 10:38 PM
1) You can add your ships to the left or right "monitor" by selecting them and pressing shift+1/2. This may seem rather pointless, but it's actually incredibly useful as gives you a way to quickly access that ship's menu by clicking the ship icon in the monitor panel.

It also allows you to control those ships, so you can dogfight with your M3 whilst sitting in your TS, for example.

FunnyB
23-11-2011, 10:18 PM
Taking a short pause from X3-TC right now to play some Skyrim... Man that game is addicting!

Anyone had any good progress in X3? :D

Kelron
24-11-2011, 12:44 AM
I keep thinking about starting a new game. But yes, Skyrim.

FunnyB
24-11-2011, 11:01 AM
If I remember correctly, I'm currently at about 3.5 million credits in my account, and my plan is to keep on doing more missions in non-Argon space. When I'm satisfied with my account balance, my plan is to turn my mosquito missile factory into a mosquito missile and 1 MJ shield factory complex, with perhaps an impulse ray emitter factory joined as well.

Is it hard to manage a factory complex? I think I've understood how to actually build one (using complex construction kits, placement and such) Do you have to set up one of those weird, incomprehensible administration agents or something? Or can you keep on delivering materials by the "regular" means, by automated ships I mean?

ntw
24-11-2011, 11:27 AM
Damn you, and damn Steam and their sales. I caved and bought it, I am weak and unworthy.

On a lighter note, lets have a go at this spaceship malarkey then :)

mike2R
24-11-2011, 12:05 PM
FunnyB - you can keep on using individual ships per ware, and the basic commands. CAGs and such are more efficient, but in no way needed (they are actually user mods that were blessed officially by Egosoft, not part of the base game).

And yeah, Skyrim here as well...

Grizzly
24-11-2011, 04:57 PM
Today, I was attacked by a Xenon Q. The Xenon M7 which usually kills all the fighters it comes accros.

Unfortunately, I had mass drivers. Those weapons are overpowered...

Check the steam gallery (http://steamcommunity.com/id/LoneGrizzly/screenshots/?tab=public&) for pictures on how to take this thing down. Basically, try to fly very close to the thing - You will avoid its flak cannons that way. Use WASD for strafing, and Shift+F for matching speeds, and you can take this thing down with a little patience.

Kelron
24-11-2011, 06:42 PM
If I remember correctly, I'm currently at about 3.5 million credits in my account, and my plan is to keep on doing more missions in non-Argon space. When I'm satisfied with my account balance, my plan is to turn my mosquito missile factory into a mosquito missile and 1 MJ shield factory complex, with perhaps an impulse ray emitter factory joined as well.

Is it hard to manage a factory complex? I think I've understood how to actually build one (using complex construction kits, placement and such) Do you have to set up one of those weird, incomprehensible administration agents or something? Or can you keep on delivering materials by the "regular" means, by automated ships I mean?

Complex construction is a huge pain in the arse. Make sure you save before placing things. It's worth using CAGs once you figure them out, I don't recall it being too complicated to set them up for basic duties. It's nice being able to keep a complex running with 1 or 2 ships and a minimum of supervision.

Mistabashi
24-11-2011, 07:31 PM
Yeah, it's a good idea to start training-up some Commercial Agents as soon as you can (they level-up a bit like sector/universe traders, and they're a bit limited in what they can do until they've reached a higher rank which can lead to confusion about why they don't seem to be working correctly). Commercial Agent is the most useful script as it can fully automate the buying of resources and the selling of products, but the internal/external lofistics scripts are also handy if you just want to keep ferrying specific wares from one place to another.

The command options are rather confusing at first, but in reality most of the options can usually be ignored, for a Commercial Agent you generally just want to choose salesman/shopper/trader from the "trade duties" menu depending on what you want him to do (sell produces wares, buy resources, or both), and set the option for him to use his jump-drive (although until the pilot has reached a certain rank they won't be able to use it regardless).

External Commodity Logistics allows you to set waypoints so you can for example tell a ship to buy a resource at a particular station and sell/unload them at another, which will come in handy at times. Internal Commodity Logistics is probably not going to be of interest at the early stages, it manages resources between your stations (never really used it much myself).

Just got back into the game myself, I currently have a Microchip complex in Herron's Nebula, a small sheild complex in President's End, a crystal complex in an empty sector and a weed & booze complex in another empty sector. The chip & crystal complexes were mainly built for the purpose of completing a certain plot mission, but as it turns out Microchips are a bit of a goldmine, I've got 14 chip plants in the complex and they're still selling out as fast as I can make them.

I'll second Kelron's tip to stock-up on salvage insurance and save every time before placing a station, it can be a pain in the arse if something goes wrong. And always check that your placed station isn't touching another, if you hear the metal clanging noise after it's placed that means it's colliding with something and eventually it'll probably explode, so it's time to re-load that save. Also remember to stick an advanced satellite in the sector so you can activate the top-down camera overlay in the sector map - it's not an orthographic view so it's a bit confusing, but it helps.

Sproutmask
24-11-2011, 08:44 PM
Darned peer pressure, now I've gone and bought it... ;-)

Suspect I'll be back to ask for some hints later. Meanwhile I will try very hard not to buy any other games, especially as the missus is sitting right where she can see the screen.

FunnyB
29-11-2011, 09:30 PM
Any of the newer players who've got something interesting to add?

Dubbill
29-11-2011, 10:25 PM
If you want a good hand-holding guide this series on youtube (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p73C60btBi8) is a good starting point.

Sarigs
29-11-2011, 10:37 PM
I've not played in quite some time, absolutely loved X3 and Terran Conflict, may need to reinstall I think!

Anyone who's interested this is a awesome AAR on the Egosoft forum that I followed when I was playing regularly, I'd highly recommend it: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=222994&highlight=mcsquidy Adventures of a Boron Pirate, Squiddy Mcsquids

ntw
29-11-2011, 10:38 PM
Too busy playing to write about it ;)

I also found a YouTube series (commander Dave?) Which was incredibly useful.

ntw
30-11-2011, 10:21 AM
update due to now posting from a PC instead of my phone - yup, the youtube guides I found were the same as the ones linked above, and they are very good. Also (as again mentioned above) the squiddy mcsquid AAR is excellent and very well written.

In my game I went with the Terran Defender start, so far I've progressed fairly well I think, I've even managed to get myself embroiled in one of the other plotlines. I'm playing RiD (Reload if Dead) instead of DiD (Dead is Dead) so I'm having to live with the consequences of my mistakes. Major ones which stand out for me at the moment are that I should have picked my targets a little more carefully before trying to capture ships and that I shouldn't have sold off all of my M5's but luckily (/painfully) I am quickly learning to dock frequently to ensure my progress is saved should the worst happen.

Current Assets :
~250k Cr
1x Terran Sabre - I really want to upgrade this to an M4/M3 more suited for capping ships
1x Pirate Buster - not sure what to do with this really, it may be suitable for progressing the TD plotline if I complete the cargobay upgrade, if not I'll probably sell it
1x Boron Dolphin - I've just finished setting it up as a sector trader, now hopefully it'll run as a decent revenue stream so I can concentrate on other things

Plans :
find somewhere that sells Jump Drives (Terracorp HQ near Mars?)
replace my Sabre
cap some more traders (try and focus on pirate ones if possible, otherwise choose one race to piss off and focus on them)
work on the plotlines
use Buster as a salvager ship?

questions :
Is the Bonus Pack included in the steam install of X3:TC?
where do you buy 2nd hand ships?
is there an ini or cfg file somewhere I can tweak to modify the GFX settings?

/edit - thought of some questions which you guys may be able to help with, also some updates to my plans

Mistabashi
30-11-2011, 02:19 PM
Nearly finished re-tooling my crystal complex to produce microchips for the final part of the HUB plot. I've got 24 chip plants with another 6 to go, and it's still producing an excess of crystals. I think I'll build a small missile complex next so I can keep my ships stocked with some of the rarer types and make a bit of cash on the side from whatever I don't use.

@ ntw:

The bonus pack isn't included as standard, you can download it from the Egosoft website. Some of the scripts will be very useful later on if you intend to do any station building, and the missile defense Mosquito & turbo boost are both essential in my opinion.

It's also worth checking out this mod (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=224456)that adds a hotkey to disable/enable your turrets, which can be a lifesaver when trying to capture ships or when trying to avoid friendly fire in station defense missions.

Second-hand ships can often be bought from NPC's, look for ships flying around with the orange $ sign over them, they will often be an offer of sale. You can often find these ships parked at a shipyard too, and sometimes other stations. Bear in mind that they will strip-out most of the upgrades and the hull will generally be pretty damaged, so you may have to spend some time with a repair laser to fix it up (or pay through the nose at a shipyard).

As for graphics settings, as far as I know you only get what you see in the launcher, although I've never really looked into it.

Grizzly
30-11-2011, 04:28 PM
find somewhere that sells Jump Drives (Terracorp HQ near Mars?)

Mars has no Terracorp HQ as far as I know? There is a Terracorp HQ in Home of Light, but you will have to go west, a lot, before you find it.

The Goner Temple (In X3: Reunion it was build in Cloudbase South West, have not progressed as much as a terran defender to check if it is still there) also sells Jumpdrives, and there is a Goner Ship in Elysium of Light (north of Treasure Chest) that wants to build a new temple. This requires a lot of ore and silicon, which they pay for. Might be something if you feel like flying that Dolphin.

ntw
30-11-2011, 04:38 PM
Cheers for the advices guys, I'll probably try and go for the Goners route to a JD since I've already met them, while keeping my eyes open as I explore incase I find another supplier. I'll also grab the bonus pack and keep an eye on the second-hand ships market now I know what to look for.

FunnyB
01-12-2011, 06:18 PM
These are my current assets:

Credits: ~3.3 million
15 Advanced Satellites spread throughout the galaxy.
1 Wheat Farm in Elena's Fortune
1 Mosquito Missile Factory in Home Of Light
1 Silicon Mine in Ore Belt

2 Mercury (with the Wheat farm as base)
3 Mercury (with the Mosquito Missile Factory as base)
2 Mercury (with the Silicon Mine as base)
1 level 20 Sector Trader (in a Mercury)

My personal fleet consists of:

1 Magnatar
1 Discoverer
1 Scorpion
1 Express
1 Mercury

Next point of order is still probably making a factory complex with the mosquito missile factory, and adding a shield factory on that.
So, what do you all think? :D

Mistabashi
01-12-2011, 08:46 PM
I'm assuming it's an Argon Mosquito fab (eg it's food resource is Meatsteak Cahoonas) in which case yeah, an Argon 1MJ sheild fab is a good investment. At a later stage you can add the food production to support it (cattle ranch & cahoona bakery). A medium food factory can support 2 small factories, and a large one can support 5, but remember that each race's factories have their own food type (and not all races produce all factories). A 1MJ sheild fab and a complex construction kit to link them will cost you less than 2m and is a good start to build upon - I've got 4 x 1MJ and 4x 5MJ in President's End next door and they sell as fast as I can make them :)

Remember that building factories won't make you money quickly, it's more of a long-term investment, and you'll have to pump some money into them to get production started (if you're using a TS with the Commercial Agent script it uses the station's balance to buy resources, so make sure you transfer it some credits).

Personally I'd think about setting-up a few more of those Mercurys as sector traders too. And once they start to reach higher levels (7+) remember you can re-issue the command to allow him to trade over multiple sectors (the range increases with level), they'll be more profitable if they have more territory to cover.

mike2R
02-12-2011, 10:17 AM
Reading these I keep thinking about starting another game. Probably as a pirate - hang around pirate alley and intimidate passing weapons traders into giving me their cargo... It's fun and surprisingly profitable, and I never did really have the patience for empire management...

But I still have a stupid amount of Skyrim left to play, I weakly let myself by the new Anno game. And some sod went and released Populous 2 on GoG... So I'll probably stick to playing vicariously through you guys :)

Oh and for people who enjoyed Squiddy McSquid, there are a couple of sequels from the same author: zen and the art of running away (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=232789) and Wanton use of nukes and the path to galactic conquest! (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=248619)

ntw
02-12-2011, 04:46 PM
I'm now collecting Teladinadinadinadiniumium for the Goners and their space temple, anyone out there know how much longer before they will be able to sell me a JD? (I'm sure someone mentioned above that they would be able to...) Travel time is really starting to be a pain so being able to start equipping JDs would probably save my sanity. So far I have been strong and resisted googling exactly where they are, but my resolve is weakening...
So far I've had very little success finding Pirate Freighters to 'jack, I also need to find out about which ship I should get so I can carry fighters (and therefore JDs) around, as well as how big a freighter I can 'jack. (this is as much to remind me as for the benefit of you guys :) )

Assets :
~300k Cr
1x Terran Sabre - I *still* really want to upgrade this to an M4/M3 more suited for capping ships
1x Boron Dolphin - now pootling around as a Universe Trader
1x {comparable to dolphin} - pootling around as a Sector Trader
2x {comparable to dolphin} - manually controlled trading fleet
1x Boron Octopus - my newest toy, currently equipping it. I will probably try it out as a ship-capper
1x {ex-pirate dolphin equivalent, smaller but faster} - currently shipping Tel-thingy-ium towards my current "base of operations" in Black Hole Sun, there's 200 Tel in there so I'll probably use it to advance the Terran plotline

mike2R
02-12-2011, 05:01 PM
I honestly can't remember what the deal is with the Goners. An alternative source of JDs is the OTAS HQ in Legend's Home; they also do some really nice ships as well and also docking computers. If you are operating in the galactic centre then this is reasonably accessible - don't want to spoil the location more than that without a request, but if you don't regard it a cheat, there is a full map here (http://eng.x3tc.ru/x3_tc_map/) (text format so you can search it).

Jacking freighters for a living kind of means going after race ships :) There are a few Duke's freighters you can go for, but the real money is in peaceful traders - if you do it in a pirate sector (or that of a race that dislikes the traders race) you won't get in police trouble, although you'll need to rebuild rep (not very hard to be honest) unless you don't mind having an enemy.

TM class for carrying fighters, each race except Terran has 1. Your in-game encyclopedia will tell you the name of the one for each race.

FunnyB
02-12-2011, 05:44 PM
What do you use docking computers for? I haven't bought any yet, since I don't know what they do.... :D

Mistabashi
02-12-2011, 05:50 PM
What do you use docking computers for? I haven't bought any yet, since I don't know what they do.... :D

The Docking Computer is a truly glorious device :)

It allows to to dock instantly with any station/carrier once you get within 5km. It makes docking less tedious and also saves you a fair bit of time, which can mean the difference between failling a hard mission and scraping-through by the skin of your teeth.

Sarigs
02-12-2011, 05:57 PM
Reading these I keep thinking about starting another game. Probably as a pirate - hang around pirate alley and intimidate passing weapons traders into giving me their cargo... It's fun and surprisingly profitable, and I never did really have the patience for empire management...

But I still have a stupid amount of Skyrim left to play, I weakly let myself by the new Anno game. And some sod went and released Populous 2 on GoG... So I'll probably stick to playing vicariously through you guys :)

Oh and for people who enjoyed Squiddy McSquid, there are a couple of sequels from the same author: zen and the art of running away (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=232789) and Wanton use of nukes and the path to galactic conquest! (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=248619)

Ooooh I've read the Art of Running Away before but not Wanton Nukes, thanks for the heads up!

Grizzly
02-12-2011, 06:59 PM
I'm now collecting Teladinadinadinadiniumium for the Goners and their space temple, anyone out there know how much longer before they will be able to sell me a JD? (I'm sure someone mentioned above that they would be able to...)

The Goner Temple in X3:R sold Jump Drives, so the new one will too, probably. You actually have progressed furhter into X3:Terran Conflict then I have though. Although I did put quite a lot of time in X2 and X3:R.


1x Terran Sabre - I *still* really want to upgrade this to an M4/M3 more suited for capping ships
Make sure you get yourself a ship that can use Ion disruptors or Mass Drivers - Hull damage is the key to enemy ship capping, so getting the shields down quickly or punching right trough should be very effective. Be wary: Ion Disruptors have Friendly Fire! Sure, you will only bring the shields down of people and do nothing more, but people generally do not enjoy it.

ntw
03-12-2011, 02:09 AM
Assets :
~1M Cr
1x Terran Sabre - I *still* really want to upgrade this to an M4/M3 more suited for capping ships
1x Miscellaneous TS

So, my Octopus crashed while it was following my Sabre. Then while I was progressing the Terran Plot, Pirates killed my Sector Trader and Xenon killed my Universe Trader and one of my other TS's - all in three different relatively safe sectors (i.e. not "unknown", xenon or khaak). And then I sold the TP once I'd finished using it for the Terran Plotline.
Currently I'm planning the rebuilding of my fleet and progressing the Goner Plotline to see if the next stage will unlock JDs for me :S
I've been exploring but still not found any other JD vendors, and I'd rather not look at an external map if I can avoid it. Just trying to find a good sector where I can 'jack some ships without too much impact on my rankings, probably going to pick on the Paranids if I can find somewhere they hang out...

Cheers for the feedback and advice guys. :)

Grizzly
03-12-2011, 08:08 AM
probably going to pick on the Paranids if I can find somewhere they hang out...Quite sure if you start heading south from Black Hole Sun (east when you can't), you eventually will end up in Paranid Space. However, it might not be such a great idea to villify the paranid; Their equipment is top notch.

(Oh wait, you planned on stealing it, nvm :P)

ntw
03-12-2011, 09:23 AM
Quite sure if you start heading south from Black Hole Sun (east when you can't), you eventually will end up in Paranid Space. However, it might not be such a great idea to villify the paranid; Their equipment is top notch.

(Oh wait, you planned on stealing it, nvm :P)

/looks at compass, picks up pirating hat

Cheers fella :)

Grizzly
03-12-2011, 10:24 AM
/looks at compass, picks up pirating hat

Cheers fella :)

Quite sure that you go trough Interworlds as well, as a hint.

Mistabashi
03-12-2011, 11:24 AM
If you finish the Terran plot you can buy Jump Drives from Earth. Otherwise if you're in Paranid space to the South you can mosey-up N-NW to the central Argon sectors, there you should be able to find the OTAS Headquarters. Or take a trip to Boron space in the SE and find the Atreus HQ. I'm pretty sure the Goners won't ever sell JD's in Terran Conflict.

By the way, the reason your Universe Trader died is because he didn't have a Jump-Drive - their defense to attackers is to drop fighter drones and jump out of the sector, but without that ability they're sitting ducks.

ntw
03-12-2011, 01:53 PM
Yeah, hence my increased urgency to find a source of the bloody things :S

Cheers again for the perfectly vague advices (accurate enough that I know roughly where to go, not too detailed so I still get the thrill of discovery)

mike2R
03-12-2011, 03:27 PM
One tip for exploring: if you have some cheap ships that you don't have a use for, you can tell them to follow npc ships. Especially if you give them a decent scanner you can find quite a lot. I don't know this, but it would seem possible that the corporation ships (OTAS etc) would call in at their HQ from time to time, which might make it a good way of locating them. I've also heard that Goners are very widely travelled.

You likely will lose ships this way though, npcs will sometimes go through extremely dangerous sectors.

Mistabashi
03-12-2011, 10:32 PM
A quick status update on my current game (which has nearly 12 days of flight time); current assets include:

Two microchip complexes, a small shield complex in President's End, and a weed & booze complex in an unknown sector which I call home, all with support ships keeping them ticking-over nicely (and some protection from occasional hostiles).

22 Universe Traders and half a dozen sector traders, plus half a dozen Demeter Miners sucking-up the debris in Herron's Nebula to keep my nearby complexes fully stocked with silicon.

Three TLs for station-building duties etc, and another that's permanently docked at my equipment dock where it holds all the weapons and equipment I've stockpiled to make equipping new ships easier.

Three M7s each with a wing of half a dozen fighters docked in case they are needed, plus a newly aquired M7M (a Split Cobra) for future boarding operations and in case I need some heavy missile support.

A recently purchased M2 (Argon Titan) in case I need something really big.

A bunch of other M3 & M6 ships which are either sitting around gathering dust or patrolling the sectors I'm inhabiting.

Current balance: 117m credits.

I just finished the Goner plot, and it turns out they do indeed start selling jump-drives when the temple is complete. The later missions are pretty damn dangerous though (to say the least). I'm also nearing completion of the HUB plot, although I must admit I cheated by using a mod that reduces the requirements as the vanilla mission requires a monumental amount of time to complete.

In this game I've gone out of my way to stay friendly with everyone, the Pirates, the Yaki, even Dukes are my friends, although there doesn't seem to be a way to completely pacify the pirates, there's always a few hostile ones about. At some point though I'm going to turn all this accrued hardware towards some more militaristic goals.

Nullkigan
03-12-2011, 10:53 PM
All hail boresight fire, the only way to hit anything faster than an M2. And MARS, which just generally makes having turrets interesting.

Corp HQs sell jumpdrives from day 0. They also offer special missions which will eventually net you free corp ships. I remember I had to travel to Boron space to get mine, and by that point I was flush enough ( Doing the terran plotline until you get taught how to capture ships with marines is PRRRROFFFITSSSS! ) that I filled bunch of M5s on a TM with the things in case I ever got a bigger ship or component damage.

I then bought a TL (or three, the Titan has the best capacity but the Elephant is cheap and fast), made about a billion credits doing build missions (this no longer works) and assembled a huge fab in an unknown sector. It mostly produced computers because I'd never gotten the metal economy quite stable enough for weapons. I had designs on doing the Hub plotline but back then the requirements were RIDICULOUSLY high so I ended up fitting out an M2 Boreas and an M1 of some description with as many Falcon Sentinels and Nova Raiders as possible. I managed to make it three sectors into Xenon space before I had any casualties, but six M1s were enough to shred my fighter screen. Capitol vessel warfare is a bit like submarine warfare in that you can't really do anything but wait for the outcome and pray - everything is so long ranged, fast and powerful that it comes down to luck and numbers. M6s are the sweet spot as you can still dodge.

All that said, I never did really figure out universal traders. I had a couple of guys set up to ship goods between complexes, but that was it.

Sadly, I've never quite been able to get back into things. Hopefully Rebirth will be good, but they're making the plot a major selling point when it has always been the absolutely worst aspect of any X game.

Kelron
03-12-2011, 10:57 PM
All hail boresight fire, the only way to hit anything faster than an M2.

It only helps if you have autoaim turned on. It's less of a cheat in X because it requires combat software installed on your ship, but I always used mouse aim anyway.

ntw
04-12-2011, 10:49 AM
Assets:
300k Cr
2x TS
3x M4 - Sabre, Buster, Elite
1x M3 - Barracuda B)
2x TM - Magnetar, Zephyrus

So I finally found the OTAS HQ and bought a JD, went shopping nearby for a TM and got a Magnetar. Brought it back to OTAS HQ to kit it out and noticed the OTAS shipyard which sells the superior (IMHO) Zephyrus, end result, I now have 2 TMs.

I'll probably dump the Magnetar just 'cos I'm a bit strapped for cash.

Nullkigan
04-12-2011, 11:28 AM
But the Magnetar looks really really good! That was always my first consideration when picking a TM!

Mistabashi
04-12-2011, 12:41 PM
Aye, the Zephyrus is better. It's worth looking-over the OTAS shipyard's stock, they sell some rather nice ones (albeit mostly god-awful looking).

FunnyB
05-12-2011, 07:19 AM
Alright, I set up the mosquito missile & 1 MJ shield factory complex last night. Went quite well. Was a bit hard to position the complex hub the first time though, but after a few reloads, I placed it quite alright. Or as the janitor in Grim Fandango said: "Good enough for government work!"

If you add more factories to a complex, do you need to keep adding complex construction kits to it as well?

Next order of business will be to set up a few more sector traders. I need more cash flow!

Mistabashi
05-12-2011, 01:20 PM
Yeah, each new factory you add requires another CCK, although you won't have to place the complex hub each time, it'll use the one that you already placed. When placing a hub or station you can rotate it using 1,3,7 & 9 on the keypad (if you have an advanced satellite in the sector you can press the camera button at the top of the sector map to actually see the station in real-time before you place it).

soldant
06-12-2011, 12:00 AM
Reading this is interesting. Also depressing! Had another crack at it recently and still couldn't get anywhere, guess I'm just not cut out for the trading part.

Nullkigan
06-12-2011, 12:23 AM
Do the Terran start until you get the M3 (Cutlas?). Splurge a few thousand credits on junk and eject it into space. You got drunk and bought a treasure map. Read a spoiler guide on how to find abandoned vessels. Pick one, then check the maps. I'd recommend the Falcon Sentinel as it's a tough old bird and tricky to get to (iirc it's outside the display area of the in-sector map). Do some random missions to build up some confidence and spare cash. Once happy, go back to the Terran missions until you get taught how to capture vessels (you're given the one you practice on, and it's pretty nice). You're now ideally situated to do pretty much anything.

Or cheat and give yourself a million credits in venture capital. You're the illegitimate son of a pangalactic trade mogul out to show the universe that you're worth something. That should get you a reasonable fighter or trader without prematurely elevating you to the larger vessels. Nobody is going to begrudge you skipping the rat-killing and onion-fetching parts of a game like this.

Play in a manner that suits you. There's a reason you have separate ranks for economics and warfare :)

Mistabashi
06-12-2011, 12:30 AM
^^ what he said. There's loads of mods (or plain cheats) out there, and the sandbox nature of the game means you shouldn't feel too bad about about modifying it to suit your taste, as long as you have some restraint so you don't spoil your own fun so to speak.

EDIT: that said, there aren't any mods that significantly improve the UI problems in the game, so if that's a major sticking-point you may still find it frustrating. Personally I'm the sort of person that always picks-up on the kind of blindingly obvious UI design issues that are present in this game, but still find it easy enough to grit my teeth and work through them. Your milage may vary though.

soldant
06-12-2011, 06:15 AM
Yeah I'm a vocal hater of the X menu system, and I hope they've really fixed if for Rebirth. Can't stand how it's basically the same as the first X game with more stuff tacked on.

My biggest issue though is that although you can make money by capturing it seems like the game still pushes you into being a trading mogul in the end anyway.

mike2R
06-12-2011, 07:51 AM
It does kinda, what with the hub plot demanding you supply a stupid amount of resources. But not so much in terms of just making money. Once you get your various reps and ranks up, missions can be incredibly lucrative. Yes, most people would advise you have a fleet of UTs out there, but you don't have to.

I really don't like the unwieldy sprawling empire thing. My first few games I tried to do it, but always got to the point that I'm essentially not using SETA anymore because I've always got something or other that needs attention in my empire. Fairly soon I stopped playing because, well its kind of like being at work :)

Now when I play I stay focussed, I will set up some UTs since they don't take a huge amount of babysitting, but I never buy stations and I carefully avoid any activity which will cause ongoing maintenance. I like it just me and my support ships wandering the galaxy, making money and, from time to time, looking for trouble.

I suppose I've played it enough that I really don't care about where I end up. I enjoy the early game the most, and each time I go back to the game I tend to restart. I never really get very far in terms of massive fleets of capital ships or huge piles of credits, but that isn't why I play.

But it isn't for everyone. Hopefully rebirth will be much better in terms of interface.

FunnyB
07-12-2011, 09:53 AM
I've heard you can unlock further starting scenarios in the game... How do you do this? Is it by completing the plot missions?

mike2R
07-12-2011, 10:31 AM
I've heard you can unlock further starting scenarios in the game... How do you do this? Is it by completing the plot missions?

A combination of finishing plots and achieving particular ranks and reps. You can find a full list here (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=222810) which I think is correct. There's a registry edit that will unlock all of them (which I did actually, and can confirm it works) which someone details further down the linked page.

Gnoupi
07-12-2011, 03:26 PM
Hm. Apparently there will be a new episode of X3, after Terran Conflict, and before the "rebirth". X3: Albion Prelude: http://www.egosoft.com/news/current_en.php#news833


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJ7z1HVonUM

Kelron
07-12-2011, 03:36 PM
Free for superbox owners as well, I love Egosoft.

Mistabashi
07-12-2011, 03:46 PM
Interesting, looks like a sort of stand-alone expansion type thing. Wasn't expecting this at all, now I'm rather excited.

mike2R
07-12-2011, 04:04 PM
oooh, good spot! Out of 15th December for ten pieces of monopoly money for us non-superbox owners.

Guess I will be playing again pretty soon after all :)

FunnyB
07-12-2011, 05:17 PM
Damnit! Now I have to get that one as well!!! :D

IDtenT
07-12-2011, 05:39 PM
I own the Superbox and I've played none of them beyond a few hours really. Now they add another? ... I think I'll start with the new one then. :P

Smashbox
07-12-2011, 06:15 PM
Yeah I'm a vocal hater of the X menu system, and I hope they've really fixed if for Rebirth. Can't stand how it's basically the same as the first X game with more stuff tacked on.


Has anyone produced a serious UI mod for this game? I would be interested in checking out a more streamlined experience.

mike2R
07-12-2011, 06:40 PM
Has anyone produced a serious UI mod for this game? I would be interested in checking out a more streamlined experience.

Sadly I do not believe so. And given the extensive range of mods available, I guess that means that the UI is not modable.

Mistabashi
07-12-2011, 06:46 PM
Yeah, apart from changing the way it looks I don't think there's much that modders can do with the UI. Although I did notice in the Egosoft interview for the new installment they mentioned they had added "more access to the UI from scripts" so maybe it'll be a step in the right direction.

nimrod
07-12-2011, 11:27 PM
this seems more like a cheap feature test then a full game, they added full warfare, a stock exchange and a couple of other modifications to X3:TC, seems worth $10 it will cost me (I got X3:TC)

Most people likely to get it already have either TC or the superbox so they don't pay full price any way

Chorltonwheelie
07-12-2011, 11:47 PM
Ok, my curiosity is peeked. I need a couple of little pointers though.

I hated the old Wing Commander games but lost months of my life to Elite, Elite 2 and Oolite. I like the glacial pace. I can pop for a can or make a call whilst docking or approaching a star for fuel. It adds to the immersion for me (a space fellah's gotta piss!). Is X3:TC similarly paced?

I've found it on GamersGate for about 11. If I go for the cheapo option will it auto update like my Steam games or will I be downloading and installing patches?

TIA.

Kelron
07-12-2011, 11:51 PM
Might want to wait a week for the new version.

Docking is plenty slow enough if you let the autopilot do it for you, although it doesn't take long to do it manually. You can set autopilot for long routes and turn time acceleration on, it doesn't usually fly into asteroids anymore. Not sure if Gamersgate's version is the latest one - it won't autoupdate but the patches shouldn't be large downloads.

Mistabashi
08-12-2011, 12:05 AM
To add to that: You would probably be best off choosing the Humble Merchant start, it starts you off with 10k credits, a nippy M5 scout ship and a generic transport for trading. You can enter in to any of the plot lines at any point if you choose (you just have to get to whatever stage they are offered and meet whatever NPC or even triggers it), but in the meantime you're free to potter about as you wish and get to grips with trading, exploring and doing any jobs you find. You won't get much in the way of guidance this way, but it'll feel less rushed.

As for pacing, it's kind of weird as all the sectors are very compact, there's no wide-open space, but most ships are relatively slow so travel can still take a lot of time. You have a SETA drive that speeds-up time though, so you can kind of take the game at your own pace. Particularly if you go down the big trading empire route at later stages you can spend all the time you want just floating around in space managing your ships and stations, or if you feel like some action take a combat mission, start one of the plots or just jump into a pirate sector and start causing some trouble. It's pretty sandboxy overall is basically what I'm trying to say.

Just be prepared to grapple with the UI a bit :)

soldant
08-12-2011, 12:17 AM
Awesome news! I picked up the X Superbox just to see what the older X games were like... which is why I was astounded to find the same numbered interface as in X3:TC! I've just picked up the game again and I'm trying to follow some of the suggestions here. Difficult but I'm having fun!

As for the UI: Modders can add new elements to the UI but that's it, the basic "list of numbers" aspect is stuck there. Which is a real pain for me and the thing I hate the most.

IDtenT
08-12-2011, 01:55 AM
Wow. Lol. I used to have an account on the X forums in 2002, I even signed up to be a level 3 beta tester. What the hell. I remember none of this.

Tagert
08-12-2011, 06:27 AM
Ok, my curiosity is peeked.

Piqued. >.>

Now that I've scratched that itch (Sorry, Chorlton <3) I have to say I'm quite interested in this. I -really-, -really- want to get into an X game, because they are so up my alley and the engine still looks amazing...hopefully this release will be good.

Looking forward to Rebirth as well. :)

Chorltonwheelie
08-12-2011, 09:59 AM
Piqued. >.>

Now that I've scratched that itch (Sorry, Chorlton <3) I have to say I'm quite interested in this. I -really-, -really- want to get into an X game, because they are so up my alley and the engine still looks amazing...hopefully this release will be good.

Looking forward to Rebirth as well. :)

Ah, spelling plug in!
(Not that I went to Grammer school and can't spell Grammar, oh no no....)

Anyway, thanks for replies. I'm at home waiting for deliveries all day and I've dug out my old analogue joystick from the man-draw so today's launch day! 5...4...3...2.....

mike2R
08-12-2011, 10:16 AM
Wow. Lol. I used to have an account on the X forums in 2002, I even signed up to be a level 3 beta tester. What the hell. I remember none of this.

lol I suppose it is more original than a traffic cone and a pair of knickers with a 48inch waist :)

ntw
12-12-2011, 12:09 PM
Still loving this game.

Just completed the Terran plotline and now messing around with pirates in the Goner plot. I'm spending money almost as fast as I'm making it, but that should be improving now that I've recently completed refurbishing my Trader "fleet" after learning an expensive lesson earlier by under-equipping my ST's (and then losing them).

Current plans are to finish the Goners (almost done I think), then steal a TL and build up to stealing an M7M.

Assets :
~1m Cr
1x Viridar
2x Scabbard +19 crummy marines - currently training half of them up
4x Sector Traders
1x Zephyrus carrying -

Sabre
Enhanced Jaguar
Barracuda
Scimitar

FunnyB
15-12-2011, 07:51 PM
Anyone bought Albion Prelude yet?

I was a bit surprised, as I thought it was gonna be a stand-alone expansion, but it seems to be DLC for Terran Conflict. What's odd about that is that even though it's DLC, save games from Terran Conflict aren't compatible with Albion Prelude.

Grizzly
15-12-2011, 08:12 PM
Anyone bought Albion Prelude yet?

I was a bit surprised, as I thought it was gonna be a stand-alone expansion, but it seems to be DLC for Terran Conflict. What's odd about that is that even though it's DLC, save games from Terran Conflict aren't compatible with Albion Prelude.

It is known as an Old Fashioned Expansion Pack. like the Barbarian Invasion for Rome: Total War.

Kelron
15-12-2011, 09:50 PM
There's a list of changes here: http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=311327

Still being fleshed out and it's relatively spoiler free (so it's not saying exactly what the new ships are, for example), but it should give you an overview. Definitely one for existing fans of the series, there's not much in the way of UI or accessibility improvements. Wait for Rebirth if that's what you're looking for.

Kelron
23-12-2011, 10:44 PM
http://www.gamersgate.co.uk/DD-X3APG/x3-terran-war-package

6.78 for Terran Conflict and Albion Prelude.

Pseudo310
24-12-2011, 02:49 PM
I tried this, but travelling from place to place was tedious, even with time acceleration. I plan on giving it another shot, but my first impression was zzz. Space combat/trading games are right up my alley, though, so I'll come back to it.

Mistabashi
24-12-2011, 03:28 PM
I tried this, but travelling from place to place was tedious, even with time acceleration. I plan on giving it another shot, but my first impression was zzz. Space combat/trading games are right up my alley, though, so I'll come back to it.

Well, it isn't really a "space combat/trading" game in the vein of Freelancer or similar, it's more of a space combat/economy/empire building sandbox type thing. It isn't really about zipping around having dogfights, although that does happen at times. As for speed, you can change the time compression setting up to 9x, but I suspect you were just flying a slow ship. You always need to upgrade ships to get their maximum speed, and also you aren't limited to what ship you fly and how many you can control; if you were sat in a transport doing trade runs manually you were pretty much doing it wrong :)

Also the game only really opens-up when you've explored a bit and bought yourself a Jump-Drive. It definitely requires an investment in time and effort to get the most out of, and I get the impression that a lot of people that bounced off it were pretty much expecting it to be something it's not. That coupled with the rather obtuse UI and the almost complete lack of any real guidance makes it somewhat hard to get into.

Serenegoose
24-12-2011, 03:39 PM
Did they ever fix ships crashing into the sides of spaceports and destroying themselves? That was my biggest issue, it happened to me all the time and cost me a fortune in time and unnecessary micromanagement.

Mistabashi
24-12-2011, 03:55 PM
Did they ever fix ships crashing into the sides of spaceports and destroying themselves? That was my biggest issue, it happened to me all the time and cost me a fortune in time and unnecessary micromanagement.

It only happens with a few specific ships (and a few types of station), generally it isn't much of an issue. Also, collisions only happen in the sector you are in, so any problematic ships can just be un-docked remotely.

soldant
25-12-2011, 08:56 AM
I tried playing Albion Prelude today. Initially I was enjoying the war part. Then I took on a contract to kill somebody. Spent 90% of the mission in SETA flying between stations and gates just to get the co-ords of the enemy pilot (who happened to reside in the same system I got the mission from). Went and attacked him, reduced his hull down to almost nothing... then a random shot came from somewhere else (just one, single stray shot) and killed him. And I got nothing. I did all the rest of the work and got nothing because of a random NPC shot from nowhere.

That's one of the things I absolutely hate about the X games, apart from the interface, and reminds me of why I stopped playing. I spend most of my time in SETA flying across distances which add nothing to gameplay, only to backtrack to where I started, and end up with absolutely nothing for the entire time invested because of a totally random event. Just one single shot completely wrecked the entire mission and instantly wrecked any fun I was having. Trading is hampered by a terrible interface, and combat is hampered by random things like that which are totally unnecessary. I give up, I'll wait for Rebirth.

Ninjafoodstuff
26-12-2011, 01:15 PM
Well I was reading this thread and then there was the x series in the steam sale. So now I guess I will be re-reading this thread and trying to make sense out of all the advice, thanks!

FunnyB
16-02-2012, 10:36 PM
Tried Albion Prelude for the first time a couple of days ago, when goofing off from playing through my backlog. Seems quite alright! I tried the Argon Patriot start instead of the Humble Trader this time, meaning to play some combat to begin with, before starting a new empire.

Anyone else have any stories from Albion Prelude?

ShowMeTheMonkey
16-02-2012, 11:27 PM
I loved Freelancer, but wish there was a bit more to it after the story ends.

All I want is Skyrim in space.

With proper missions.

With crew management.

NPC characters you can walk up to.

Buying supplies.

All that good stuff.

Please.

soldant
17-02-2012, 12:22 AM
So basically, you want Elite, but with a quick FPS component.

According to most of the X3 fans, you (and me) form part of the heathen group that don't want to spend hours doing absolutely nothing while the game plays itself. You're in good company.

That said X: Rebirth looks like it'll go a little way to meeting that criteria. It won't be Skyrim in Spaaaaaaace, but it'll be closer than X3. Of course they could absolutely wreck the interface like they've successfully done since the very first X game, but you can hope and pray.

FunnyB
11-06-2012, 07:29 AM
N-N-N-NECRO!

I'm actually thinking of starting over, this time in Albion Prelude, again using the Humble Merchant start, and trying to build a vast empire of stations and merchants. The stock market seems quite cool as well.

My only issue with X3 is that it takes damn long for things in the game to happen!

jnx
11-06-2012, 08:44 AM
I've only played X3:TC. It's great but also one of those games I only recommend if you're unemployed. As stated above, the game requires huge time investments.

ntw
11-06-2012, 09:15 AM
Need to get back into this game, did AP improve the hideous UI much?

Raaritsgozilla
11-06-2012, 09:32 AM
It took so long for me to even BEGIN to find a mission I could do so I quit

soldant
11-06-2012, 09:32 AM
Need to get back into this game, did AP improve the hideous UI much?
Hahahaha, no, of course not! It's still a mess of nested menus with only partial mouse support.

X Rebirth is still your only hope. AP is more of a content upgrade, it isn't an interface overhaul... to do that you'd need to start from absolute scratch.

ntw
11-06-2012, 10:07 AM
Aw, I thought it was a halfway step :(

FunnyB
11-06-2012, 06:53 PM
So I did it. Restarted from beginning in Albion Prelude. Man, it's tough from the start with so little cash!

Tried to find a few trade routes to make some quick cash, 1.5 hours later I've fitted my two beginning ships (a small transport and a scout ship) with a decent start out kit, and got about 60k in the account. In other words, not much! :D

squareking
02-07-2012, 07:55 PM
Been putting several hours into AP and goodness, does it suck. Suck you in, that is!

Does anyone have any recommended mods for prettiness/more atmosphere? The X Rebalance (http://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=304158&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0) thing is supposed to be quite grand, but I don't want to give up the vanilla flavor just yet — I only want the graphical tweaks and added ambient soundery.

alms
02-07-2012, 09:44 PM
Been putting several hours into AP and goodness, does it suck. Suck you in, that is!

Meh, I managed to psyche myself out of it last xmas using the UI argument, but I'm not sure I can resist this next summer sale (if indeed, there'll be one) (<-I just said that only to avoid jinxing it) (<- Whoops!)

Batolemaeus
02-07-2012, 10:43 PM
Honestly, I don't quite get the UI argument. The UI was built with joystick+keyboard in mind, and works very well with that in mind. In fact, some actions can be done with incredible speed because you can press buttons much faster than pointing with the mouse. Even complex commands like telling a specific ship to engage jump drive and dock at a station in a specific sector can be done with very few button presses.

Forget your mouse exists and the UI become very fast, if sometimes a bit unintuitive to control.

If you rely on the mouse..yeah, you're in for a world of pain.

squareking
02-07-2012, 10:49 PM
Most of the UI quibbles are definitely made better via keyboard shortcuts. I wish there was a little more feedback on your actions in some scenarios, and it is far from an excellent UI experience (though certainly not the worst), but yeah.

Stevo
02-07-2012, 10:53 PM
I have both TC and AP and have desperately wanted to get into them but god it's too hard and the controls are pants with a joystick. I have a 360 pad does anyone have a Xpadder profile for the game or some equivalent.

Mistabashi
02-07-2012, 10:56 PM
Honestly, I don't quite get the UI argument. The UI was built with joystick+keyboard in mind, and works very well with that in mind. In fact, some actions can be done with incredible speed because you can press buttons much faster than pointing with the mouse. Even complex commands like telling a specific ship to engage jump drive and dock at a station in a specific sector can be done with very few button presses.

Forget your mouse exists and the UI become very fast, if sometimes a bit unintuitive to control.

If you rely on the mouse..yeah, you're in for a world of pain.

Well, the point is that memorising keyboard shortcuts for the multitude of commands you'll be using isn't very intuitive for someone who hasn't spent a long time playing the game. Personally I've spent hundreds of hours in X3:TC, so the basic interface doesn't bother me much (although there's plenty of things with scripts/automation that will still trip me up/frustrate me), but it's hardly what you would call streamlined, and to someone new to the game it creates a rather imposing wall with them on one side and the game on the other.

It's also really terrible in how it presents the vast amount of information you'll need to be looking through. The ship/asset screen is an absolute nightmare when you start to build up a big empire, and there's so many simple improvements they could have done (example: instead of having a whole seperate page of filters, just put some little toggle boxes at the top of the lists). It's also in dire need of some sort of grouping outside of wings (which are designed for combat grouping). When you have a hundred-odd transports shipping goods around and trading you really need some way of keeping track of which units are which (I have to preface all my ships with codes so I can tell what's what).

So yeah, it's bearable when you get to grips with it, but that takes far too long for most people, and even when you do it's still far from intuitive.

Kelron
03-07-2012, 12:23 AM
Yeah. Even though X3 is one of my favourite games, I lose interest when my empire grows beyond a certain point because of the sheer tedium of trying to equip and order around large numbers of ships. Despite the wing/fleet stuff they've added in the last couple of versions, the interface is simply not good enough for that kind of large scale control to be done quickly.

soldant
03-07-2012, 01:10 AM
Yeah. Even though X3 is one of my favourite games, I lose interest when my empire grows beyond a certain point because of the sheer tedium of trying to equip and order around large numbers of ships.
This is the primary point of the argument. It's true that the interface can be a bit faster than using the mouse but there are lots of places where this isn't the case, and ship management and orders are one of them.

Getting a ship to move to a specific point or several points requires the use of an obscene number of nested menus plus a map that, for the most part, still uses a keyboard-driven interface to pick out a point on the map (though you can select from the different stations and things in the list to the right, but that list can become awfully messy in a busy system). There's nothing "faster" about that system than simply clicking on the item on a map and having a little orders menu pop up or something, like an RTS game. Outfitting ships is also a nightmare and would have been made a LOT easier with pretty much anything other than this. It also doesn't help that a lot of the UI is teeny-tiny compared to available screen real-estate, which is fine for some things but applying that mentality to EVERYTHING (including a UI I'm not likely to touch in combat, where visibility is more important) is ridiculous and needlessly crippling.

The old interface was designed without a mouse in mind, that much is true, but beyond the very basics of command, that nested interface is atrocious. It's an absolute mess and in the age of high-res games with extensive mouse support, there's no reason not to let us use the mouse, particularly for fleet command. People don't like memorising long lists of nested menus just to find out how to get their Mk3 Trade Command Software to go make money or something, particularly when it can be boiled down into a much simpler, mouse-driven interface. That massive learning curve or requirement to memorise things removes much of the speed out of any sort of keyboard driven interface.

Batolemaeus
03-07-2012, 04:13 PM
So yeah, it's bearable when you get to grips with it, but that takes far too long for most people, and even when you do it's still far from intuitive.

When it comes to being intuitive the UI is a complete and utter failure, I'll definitely agree. I just think it's good to know where the UI is coming from and the kind of game it was designed for (that is, no pointing device available).

They just took a very old game and added and added stuff to it. It is old, the UI is old, the UI concept is old, the design concepts are old. You're looking at a 10-15 year old game, conceptually, that for various reasons has just refused to die.

It's the one reason I'm looking forward to Rebirth. The old X has run its course. X3:AP gave it a few bugfixes but also quite impressively highlighted the limitations of the old framework and why a complete redesign is absolutely in order.

georgyboy
03-07-2012, 04:58 PM
I loved Elite and Privateer series plus Freelancer, but the mid and high end of X3 is pure non sense. The interface mechanics are horrible, the story and non dynamic Xenon are crap, so basically you trade, build a huge armada to fight some basic spawns under a horrible cliche story. I dont feel the universe alive like it was in Freelancer....Great concept, superb graphics, terrible EXECUTION.

I hope in X - Rebirth will hire some game designers...

Tikey
03-07-2012, 05:02 PM
Speaking of that. Any news on X:Rebirth release date?
Last I heard it was Q2 2012 but something tells me that's no longer accurate.

squareking
03-07-2012, 05:24 PM
^ It's still listed everywhere as 2012, but I thought I heard something on the Ego forums about 2013...

Tikey
03-07-2012, 05:39 PM
NNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOooooo

mufasaz
04-07-2012, 01:37 PM
They are better trading games out there than X3. The combat is awfull...