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R-F
02-11-2011, 05:43 PM
What does everyone think of it? To me, it seems like a pretty useful way to raise money, especially for games etc. It seems like a great way to get decent deals, too.

Obligatory Link (http://www.kickstarter.com/)

Awesome current projects:
D-Day Dice (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1325766284/d-day-dice-board-game?ref=category) (Probably going to be a massive game soon, people are loving it.)
Empires of the Void (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/953146955/empires-of-the-void-board-game-of-galactic-conques?ref=category) (Like 4x BUT ON A BOARD.)
Miskatonic School for Girls (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1225737959/miskatonic-school-for-girls-deck-building-game?ref=category) (Tentacle monsters and school girls. Will be big in Japan, I think.)
Mutant Meeples (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/tedalspach/mutant-meeples?ref=category) (Like meeples, but mutated?)

Nalano
02-11-2011, 06:22 PM
Dreck for hipster franchises (http://bajillionhits.biz/post/1462382298/15-project-ideas-for-tricking-hipsters-into-giving-you).

Keep
02-11-2011, 07:27 PM
I think it's wonderful. This is what makes the internet great: connecting people. It's making possible art/movies/games/albums that'd never make it by the limited understanding of a studio whose main concern is "But will it turn a profit?"


Dreck for hipster franchises (http://bajillionhits.biz/post/1462382298/15-project-ideas-for-tricking-hipsters-into-giving-you).

So a platform's available to encourage genuinely interested projects become real, and some guy interprets it through an cynical glaze of hipster-dom?

Not that there aren't tosspots on Kickstarter, but dammit what is with our insistence on being more ironic than everyone else? Why not just get back to basics: what's your actual earnest passion? Forget about how cool or uncool, conventional or hipster-y it is, just what do you like?
And doesn't Kickstarter facilitate that? So isn't it - no ironic distance, no gauging where your opinion puts you on the cool-scale - just plain good?

Nalano
02-11-2011, 07:41 PM
So a platform's available to encourage genuinely interested projects become real, and some guy interprets it through an cynical glaze of hipster-dom?

No, some guy judges it via the rather clear lack of accountability (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backing%20a%20project#Acco) the site offers. It's like an ironic, transparent Ponzi scheme.

Keep
02-11-2011, 08:00 PM
No, some guy judges it via the rather clear lack of accountability (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backing%20a%20project#Acco) the site offers. It's like an ironic, transparent Ponzi scheme.

Ah maybe I got the wrong end of the stick. I took the article as being "Man hipsters amirite? We're so much cooler than them though. What's the latest thing hipsters like? Kickstarter? Ha. Boy does Kickstarter ever suck."

I'll uh, step off this hobby horse for a sec and reread it.

R-F
02-11-2011, 08:06 PM
No, some guy judges it via the rather clear lack of accountability (http://www.kickstarter.com/help/faq/backing%20a%20project#Acco) the site offers. It's like an ironic, transparent Ponzi scheme.

And this is why we have laws where you can claim your cash back. Genius, no?

Nalano
02-11-2011, 08:18 PM
And this is why we have laws where you can claim your cash back. Genius, no?

eBay makes a great big fuss about protecting their users from fraud - to the point where they guarantee auto purchases done on-site - and have published their protocol when it comes to law enforcement.

Even then, fraud is prevalent on eBay and it really is a fucking hassle sometimes.

Kickstarter makes no such claims of protection. They kick all the actual money changing-of-hands to Amazon's payment system, and Amazon makes absolutely no claims towards guaranteeing refunds on such ventures. So just about the only thing Kickstarter has over the cesspool of Craigslist is a cleaner splash page.

Xercies
02-11-2011, 10:25 PM
I think it is good, maybe they do need a bit more accountability though. Just looking at some of the games that were on there some of them had no hope of ever being completed and stuff. Kickstarter though is only the stepping stone to true change of our economic culture, I hope we get to the golden gates at the top of those stairs sooner rather then later.

R-F
03-11-2011, 06:12 AM
eBay makes a great big fuss about protecting their users from fraud - to the point where they guarantee auto purchases done on-site - and have published their protocol when it comes to law enforcement.

Even then, fraud is prevalent on eBay and it really is a fucking hassle sometimes.

Kickstarter makes no such claims of protection. They kick all the actual money changing-of-hands to Amazon's payment system, and Amazon makes absolutely no claims towards guaranteeing refunds on such ventures. So just about the only thing Kickstarter has over the cesspool of Craigslist is a cleaner splash page.

Every Western country has laws that force banks to give their customers money if the product doesn't turn up as promised. Why do people not know their own country's laws? :psyduck:

Nalano
03-11-2011, 06:20 AM
Every Western country has laws that force banks to give their customers money if the product doesn't turn up as promised. Why do people not know their own country's laws? :psyduck:

Because you're not buying a product but supporting a venture - one with deadlines its creator gets to set, and on spurious credentials?

I'm not saying it's impossible to play the squeaky wheel at your bank (though they'll just post a chargeback to Amazon and Amazon will say they don't have the money any more). I'm saying it's very easy for them to walk off with your money and be long gone before you think to ask for it.

Edit: Any way to freeze my post count where it is?

gundrea
03-11-2011, 10:45 AM
I wouldn't go as far as Nalano but I would say that I view Kickstarter with a certain amount of scepticism. It's advertising without a product, buying pork that doesn't exist yet.

Also isn't a man with fewer posts worth more because he says more with less?

R-F
03-11-2011, 12:01 PM
Because you're not buying a product but supporting a venture - one with deadlines its creator gets to set, and on spurious credentials?

I'm not saying it's impossible to play the squeaky wheel at your bank (though they'll just post a chargeback to Amazon and Amazon will say they don't have the money any more). I'm saying it's very easy for them to walk off with your money and be long gone before you think to ask for it.

That's... Not how it works.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
03-11-2011, 06:11 PM
I'm with Nalano. There really is no accountability. It's all a bit of a laugh.

Wake me up when each team has to submit a valid business plan, gets assigned an auditor from Kickstarter and is forced to refund every cent if they do not deliver what and when they have promised according to their business plan.

Skalpadda
04-11-2011, 02:54 AM
That's... Not how it works.

You're essentially donating venture capital without being guaranteed anything, not purchasing consumer goods. It's an important difference.

I quite like the idea of Kickstarter, but I'd be very careful if I was to actually invest in something.

BigglesB
05-11-2011, 11:07 AM
I've always thought of it as internet busking: it's not really an investment, just a way for people to support things that they like and would like to see more of.

I dunno, are there examples of people who've taken a ton of money and then not fulfilled? Just because there's an opportunity to be a dick doesn't mean that everyone will be. As you've rightly pointed out, even eBay's rigorous policies don't prevent dickishness. You have to use your judgement to decide who to trust.

If a project gets enough backers then that means they've earned a certain number of people's trust. At the very least, that should weed out lazy scammers...

On another note, I'm still pissed off about not being able to set up a Kickstarter page without a US bank account...

TillEulenspiegel
05-11-2011, 11:48 AM
How do I know a project will be completed as promised?

Each project is crafted solely by its creator, and it’s up to them to make the case that they can successfully bring their project to life. Part of every creator’s job is earning their backers’ trust, especially backers who don’t personally know them.

Creators are encouraged to share links to their personal website(s), as well as any websites that show work related to the project, or past projects.

The web is an excellent resource for learning about someone’s prior experience. If someone has no demonstrable prior history of doing something like their project or is unwilling to share information, backers should consider that when weighing a pledge. If something sounds too good to be true, it very well may be.Kickstarter is fantastic if you ignore the people with no track record. I've funded a bunch of projects and never had a problem, because I knew who I was giving money to.


On another note, I'm still pissed off about not being able to set up a Kickstarter page without a US bank account...There's IndieGoGo, which uses PayPal instead of Amazon Payments. They have a lower bar to entry, though, so you see a lot of half-literate nonsense from dumb kids.

Xercies
05-11-2011, 09:23 PM
Kickstarter is fantastic if you ignore the people with no track record.

But if you think of it that way that kind of defeats the whole purpose, its supposed to be about people just saying i want to do this and people giving them money to do it. If you just give money to the people you know that will make it then isn't that just pretty much a business and just having the same lot of people doing it without anyone else being able to get into that elite club because they are untested so no one will give them money?

BobsLawnService
08-11-2011, 06:41 AM
If you think of it as a 21st century crowdsourced patronage you can't go wrong. Would be nice if donations were tax deductable.

Nalano
08-11-2011, 08:03 AM
But if you think of it that way that kind of defeats the whole purpose, its supposed to be about people just saying i want to do this and people giving them money to do it. If you just give money to the people you know that will make it then isn't that just pretty much a business and just having the same lot of people doing it without anyone else being able to get into that elite club because they are untested so no one will give them money?

You must not live in a big city.

Jaddays
17-01-2012, 10:42 AM
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