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Kaira-
02-11-2011, 06:21 PM
Apparently movie industry is trying to learn a thing or two from PC's various DRM-systems (Steam/GFWL/Origin/etc) and they've introduced a new DRM-system, called Ultraviolet. What a shame, I guess once I get a Blu Ray-player I have to start watching out for not only regional locking but also this DRM-system. Ars Technica's take on the system:
http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2011/11/your-movie-on-every-platform-sort-of-for-a-while-how-the-new-ultraviolet-drm-fails.ars


UltraViolet is a digital rights authentication system developed by the movie industry to give consumers access to the content they have purchased across a number of devices. It sounds straightforward enough, but when we bought a Blu-ray copy of Horrible Bosses in order to see how well UltraViolet is implemented, we found it to be too tied down to proprietary apps, its access limited in too many ways, and the viewing experience subpar. It's a hassle.

Here's how UltraViolet works: when you buy a Blu-ray movie, a piece of paper inside the case provides you with a 12-digit code and directs you to a website. This is when you will meet Flixster, the multi-platform app you wonít be able to shake for the duration of your UltraViolet experience. You must create an account with the website in order to redeem your various digital copy rights, and then download the provided programs in order to view the digital version of the movie.
[...]
As for as the actual movie file, it's definitely not yours to do with as you please. Itís visible in your files and you can move it around, but you wonít be able to open it without the Flixster programís say-so.


So, I don't think I'm the only one with huge collection of DVDs around here, so what do you think of this?

Shark
02-11-2011, 07:50 PM
So, basically the next time I enter a shop I can decide between good ol' DVDs or shiny blue boxes filled with FULLHD3D+MEGAMovies that make your eyes melt of excitement, extra content noone never watches and cool extra hassle that hinders me from just watching the damn movie for only twice as much!
Seriously, Hollywood?

The JG Man
02-11-2011, 08:52 PM
Well the technology industry, and a few others, generally test things out on the games industry just before it hits mainstream consumption so I'm not surprised, however...

Why?

I bought it. Why the hell do I need to 'redeem my rights' when I've already paid for that privilege?

Rii
02-11-2011, 09:43 PM
Heh, I've got a few Blu-Rays packaged with so-called 'digital copies'. I laughed when I saw that they 'expire' less than two years from the date of purchase and moved on. Sounds like this app business is simply adding more pain to the mix. In the event that I actually want a 'digital copy' I'll torrent one or rip it myself so that I can actually do what I like with it.


So, basically the next time I enter a shop I can decide between good ol' DVDs

Keep in mind that the only reason they're 'good ol DVDs' is because the format was cracked wide open and prior to draconian corporate-funded laws like the DMCA. The industry has always wanted to fuck you over, they just weren't so good at it in the past. As it stands we're lucky that Blu-Ray came along when it did rather than 5+ years later as most folks were clamouring for at the time. Blu-Ray is definitely the end of the line so far as one being able to retain any sense of ownership or control at all of the films one purchases, which is why I'm happy to purchase them without worrying about potential future formats. If another physical format ever succeeds Blu-Ray (and I don't think it will) then the provisions attached to it will make the latter seem like a happy fun playground of consumer freedom.

I'm confident that the notion of Intellectual Property will eventually be thrown upon the dust-heap of history, but it probably won't be in my lifetime.

Megagun
02-11-2011, 10:12 PM
All hail friend computer!

Either way, in ten years or so something like this will be a DRM scheme similar to Steam and everyone will love it due to the added benefits, which I assume is what they're eventually targeting here.

Xercies
02-11-2011, 10:19 PM
Fuck you companies, you know what Fuck you and your fucking artists that need there money because they can't pay for there 5th dogs breakfast without another shot of 50 million in their arms. You know what you could do, you could sell films as digital, where you download and I get to have it on my desktop or whatever i want. If yur going to do this fucking shit I will pirate every fucking movie you have and you know what I won't show any remorse for it. Think I'm a criminal I will be on.

The JG Man
02-11-2011, 10:21 PM
If another physical format ever succeeds Blu-Ray (and I don't think it will) then the provisions attached to it will make the latter seem like a happy fun playground of consumer freedom.

I think so long as internet is not constantly reliable, or quick enough depending on region, we'll always have physical formats. Even if we do reach that point, I don't believe producers wouldn't recognise that actually, there's still a big demand for people who actually want to own things straight up. Of course, I can see them laden with potential DRM, all kinds of prohibitive tech and a jacked up price. Fun future to look forward to for consumer rights indeed.

DigitalSignalX
02-11-2011, 10:21 PM
You can get a Blue-Ray ROM/WR drive for PC that's got regions unlocked and is DRM free (or easily broken with anydvd etc). Wise consumers will likely acquire players that provide same lack of hassle if they shop around. The competition is stiff enough that I can see the lack of it as a "feature." As usual in the end, DRM will only make legit customers who aren't paying attention unhappy.

pmh
02-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Keep in mind that the only reason they're 'good ol DVDs' is because the format was cracked wide open and prior to draconian corporate-funded laws like the DMCA.

Minor nit, but the DMCA predates DeCSS by a year.

Rii
02-11-2011, 10:45 PM
I think so long as internet is not constantly reliable, or quick enough depending on region, we'll always have physical formats.

But what need for anything 'better' than Blu-Ray? Even if there is a market for 'Super HD' that same market has uber internet. If we come up with some magical VR format in the next few years requiring terabytes of data per film, sure...


Even if we do reach that point, I don't believe producers wouldn't recognise that actually, there's still a big demand for people who actually want to own things straight up.

Only I'm not sure there is. Amongst the younger generations in most advanced nations we're seeing a shift away from traditional values of social status through material wealth. Of course that's a trend enabled by material wealth coupled with technology coupled with various other factors, but there's no reason to suspect it won't continue. In the longest view that might even be a good thing and reflect a weakening of the pillars of capitalism and signal an easier transition to sustainable economic and social structures in future decades and centuries. In the short and medium term, though, it's going to hand even more power to corporate entities whose ambitions are undiminished.


Minor nit, but the DMCA predates DeCSS by a year.

Oh. Thanks.

DarkNoghri
02-11-2011, 11:03 PM
Screw that. This is just something for dealing with digital copies, though, and not the actual playing of the Blu-Ray?

I never did figure out the point of a disc including a "digital copy." It's a digitally formatted video on a physical medium. I will rip that video to my computer myself rather than using their crap. Based on the one digital copy I ever saw used (it was my sister's), it would be faster, easier, and more user-friendly as well. The digital copy I saw tried to limit use to Quicktime player or something, and maybe two other players. HA!

Screw. That.

The JG Man
02-11-2011, 11:40 PM
Good wordage

I agree...I just don't want to. I like owning things in the physical form, not to make myself look rich, just because I like knowing that I own the product. Supposedly.

Also, what are people's rooms going to look like when we turn to digital only formats? They'll be dull or filled with crap posters.

Rii
03-11-2011, 12:00 AM
I agree...I just don't want to. I like owning things in the physical form, not to make myself look rich, just because I like knowing that I own the product. Supposedly.

So do I. I don't have much in the way of traditional material ambitions -- if you gave me a million dollars I wouldn't really know what to do with it -- but I love owning books and games and films, those and only those that I find worthy or are otherwise significant to me. For me doing so serves, I think, two functions:

1. As a touchstone. Seeing a book on my bookshelf reminds me not only of its contents, but also my experience of reading it, the thoughts that it provoked, the people I shared it with and so on. It provides a concrete link to an ephemeral experience which helps me to contextualise it within my life: it affirms that experiencing these things is worthwhile, that they have resonance beyond the immediate runtime (or equivalent).

2. As a form of identity, both internal and external. And as I type this I realise that what I was attempting to describe above may in fact be the internal identity function, although I'm not sure they overlap completely. By external identity I mean that they also serve the function of demonstrating oneself to and distinguishing oneself from others, as one does with clothes or avatars or by loudly proclaiming one's allegiance to or dislike of a particular game or whatever. That's largely hypothetical in my case as few people ever see The Room Where I Keep My Stuffs, but - and my ego is reluctant to acknowledge this - the impulse is probably there.

deano2099
03-11-2011, 12:14 AM
Are these more expensive though? Than regular blu-rays?

If not it strikes me as far more sensible than the games industry. Hey, here's something extra with your blu-ray, but it involves extra DRM. But it lets you play on multiple devices.

I dunno, it feels to me a bit like criticising a game that comes out with minimal DRM and optional Steam activation.

Rii
03-11-2011, 12:31 AM
Are these more expensive though? Than regular blu-rays?

If not it strikes me as far more sensible than the games industry. Hey, here's something extra with your blu-ray, but it involves extra DRM. But it lets you play on multiple devices.

You can play Blu-Rays on multiple devices too ... just not at the same time, obviously. But then why would you want to do that? You can even re-sell them, thereby taking food from the mouths of hungry lighting assistants, or something.

I do have difficulty getting worked up about the utter debacle that is this 'digital copy' stuff because it is very much an optional extra, but looking at it you can practically hear the execs in the boardroom bemoaning the fact that it's too late to roll this user account stuff into the basic Blu-Ray format.

Danny252
03-11-2011, 12:45 AM
Here's how UltraViolet works: when you buy a Blu-ray movie, a piece of paper inside the case provides you with a 12-digit code and directs you to a website. This is when you will meet Flixster, the multi-platform app you wonít be able to shake for the duration of your UltraViolet experience. You must create an account with the website in order to redeem your various digital copy rights, and then download the provided programs in order to view the digital version of the movie.So, wait, can I just chuck it in my Bluray player attached to my TV and watch it, and only fiddle with DRM when I put it on my laptop, or do I need to snuggle my Bluray player up to my net connection, or... what?

This is why I (and the family back home) can't stand anything since VHS. Put the tape in, and it plays. Nothing short of a powercut is going to stop it working, you don't have to try and work out why the DVD publisher made the menu scroll in that stupid order with wavey text, and no Windows claiming "you need to format F:\ which contains your terabyte of media. Continue Y/Y?".

Rii
03-11-2011, 12:56 AM
So, wait, can I just chuck it in my Bluray player attached to my TV and watch it, and only fiddle with DRM when I put it on my laptop, or do I need to snuggle my Bluray player up to my net connection, or... what?

Well if your laptop has a Blu-Ray drive you don't need to bother with it then either.


This is why I (and the family back home) can't stand anything since VHS. Put the tape in, and it plays.

Don't forget to rewind!

TailSwallower
03-11-2011, 12:58 AM
I shouldn't be surprised, but this is such bullshit.

So, someone saw this flow-chart (http://boingboing.net/2010/02/18/infographic-buying-d.html) and decided the answer was restrictive DRM? It's getting to the point where people pirate movies and TV shows more for the convenience and ease-of-use than any factor relating to money (especially in Australia where we have to wait months for legitimate access to all the TV shows people on twitter etc are raving about).

The JG Man
03-11-2011, 01:48 AM
More wordage

In total agreement. Hell, it's also a talking point; "Wow, I didn't know you read V for Vendetta, any good?" or "Oh my god, you like Firefly too? No way!" and so on. Also, my Scott Pilgrim books lined up look colourful. Kinda ties in with my "rooms will look boring" philosophy. Of course just having all these things isn't necessarily good, but I think it shows appreciation. If I own something in hard format, I really wanted it or I really liked it, enough for someone to get it for me. It's why I'll always keep my PS1 because it was a present. Also it's tiny, so it hardly takes up space.

I know this might seem tangential, but considering this is the changing scape of the entire entertainment industry, and this includes books, it's something I think worth considering. Feels pretty sobering.


It's getting to the point where people pirate movies and TV shows more for the convenience and ease-of-use than any factor relating to money.

Getting? Already has been! At least since broadband internet became wildly available and internet speeds were sufficient to do this kind of stuff. We've already reached the stage in format positioning that we'll at least go into the future with a digital/hard format companionship, but I can definitely see that going more towards the former, as the latter declines in interest, causing prices to go up for production and because they just can. Piracy will always be a thing, in an all digital format, it'll be even more prevalent than it is now, with more people being interested by the pirate side of it for reasons you mention. The same goes for game releases; why, in this day, do regions still not have access to the same material as somewhere else for days, weeks or even months?! I understand broadcasters not knowing when what is available, but not even having simple access? I actually remember reading an article by Peter Serafinowicz where he said he pirated his own material simply because it was easier to do.

Putting my cynical hat on, I'd say that the digital tie-ins with blu-ray releases is done purposefully to get people interested more and more on digital so that physical formats can be ditched altogether. By that point, people are invested and DRM becomes acceptable. I'd say the same thing with Steam.

Xercies
03-11-2011, 09:47 AM
Putting my cynical hat on, I'd say that the digital tie-ins with blu-ray releases is done purposefully to get people interested more and more on digital so that physical formats can be ditched altogether.

I don't know why but I would kind of like this, but not what the companies will probably sell to us because you know they will have uncessary DRM. I'm sorry guys, I kind of agree with you, i kind of miss my teenage years where I got every game, movie, and CD physically and cherished them forever. Its definitely psychological, but the thing is digital is just so much easier and hassle free and because I have busy life I just will go to Digital more often then not.

Heliocentric
03-11-2011, 10:57 AM
FGRRRR arrghghhh *growl* aarghgag *gnash* Grrrr.

Or, yunno, do whatever you like without giving yourself an aneurysm.

Heliocentric
03-11-2011, 11:11 AM
I just googled "1080 download" and found movies with 5 star quality ratings (the compression and mix, maybe not the movie) under 2GB... Wow blue rays really are pointless for movies, at least (as certain titles the 360 are testament to) the PS3 games make use of the space.

Ah well, I just wait for things to appear on TV

Rii
03-11-2011, 01:37 PM
I just googled "1080 download" and found movies with 5 star quality ratings (the compression and mix, maybe not the movie) under 2GB... Wow blue rays really are pointless for movies

Most 720p rips I see are around 4GB. Wouldn't trust a 1080p rip under 10GB myself, and as I don't have that kind of bandwidth to throw around on a regular basis I usually stick with 720p.

As for Blu-Rays, a lot of them use MPEG-2 (like DVD/SVCD) rather than MPEG-4. Lower CPU overhead, power consumption, and heat output. And it's not like you're gonna be using the space on the disc for anything else; if it fits why not use it? Course not everything does fit which is why other films use more intensive MPEG-4-derived codecs.