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Rii
11-11-2011, 05:25 PM
Anyone else picking this up? Reviews to date are predictably stellar (http://www.metacritic.com/game/wii/the-legend-of-zelda-skyward-sword).

I've got a few other Wii games to get through first, but hopefully I'll be in Skyloft by Christmas.

The JG Man
11-11-2011, 05:57 PM
It's Zelda, so yeah. I mean, I wans't hyped initially because "Man, another game in the OoT feel" but then I listen to the music and I go "Man! Another game in the OoT feel!"

I lack a motion plus, but I figure I'll cough up for the limited editor which at least comes with what I need and the orchestrated music, of which Zelda games have a large repertoire of quality stuff to get from.

Squiz
12-11-2011, 01:15 AM
I think I'll get it eventually. Although I have to be honest with myself: It's been a while since my last intense Nintendo session. I own a Wii and a few games for it but recently I nearly completely converted from a console kid to a PC gamer. This might change in the near future though. :)

Anyways, the game looks like a Chimera of WW and TP from an artistic point of view which is really cool in my opinion. Hopefully it will include a few more "unusual" ideas / scenes / encounters than TP. If they somehow manage to go more into the direction of OoT or even better MM, that would be grand.

pakoito
12-11-2011, 01:30 AM
I'm just leaving this here and people can do whatever they want:

http://seemypic.net/images/normal/7935/dolphcfg.jpg

Rii
12-11-2011, 08:25 AM
Skyward Sword of all Wii games is not something you want to play on an emulator. Unless your setup includes a Wiimote w/MotionPlus + Nunchuk, of course. But if it does then you've almost certainly got a Wii as well. So...

pakoito
12-11-2011, 01:51 PM
Skyward Sword of all Wii games is not something you want to play on an emulator. Unless your setup includes a Wiimote w/MotionPlus + Nunchuk, of course. But if it does then you've almost certainly got a Wii as well. So...I did have one but I get the point. You can borrow one, it's not like there's no unused Wiis out there :)

The JG Man
12-11-2011, 04:40 PM
I like the idea of Dolphin, but I lazily can't be bothered to go through with doing all of it. Besides, at 480p, the best looking games do just about work. Playing Sonic Colours last year, it looked really, really good. Galaxy as well being an obvious choice. A good enough design will almost, but not quite, eliminate that lower-quality feeling because you just won't care.

So I'll be picking up the limited edition set. I don't have motion plus and the game costs 30, so the way I see it, might as well pay what I would've done anyhow and get a full remote instead of an attachment and the orchestrated music. I reckon a lot of people might see it like that too.

Rii
15-11-2011, 08:03 PM
Oh God, IGN has just mounted the most inept defence of Skyward Sword's (gorgeous) graphics of all time. OF ALL TIME. (http://au.wii.ign.com/articles/121/1212229p1.html)


To start, it should be clarified that SD is not synonymous with terrible. It simply means the image resolution is in standard definition rather than high definition - it has fewer pixels per frame, in other words, resulting in a less crisp image than HD. What does this really mean when applied to a visual medium, such as videogames? To be honest, it means nothing.

...

But it gets worse:


The old, classic, black and white movies (like Orson Welles' Citizen Kane or Federico Fellini's 8 1/2) are no less captivating and memorable now that HD cameras are the standard.

KILL!

pakoito
15-11-2011, 08:20 PM
Graphic quality: 2/10
Graphic style: 10/10

Importance of style over quality in videogames? >9000/10


Anyway it plays better 1080 AA, AF on DoplhinEmu.

The JG Man
15-11-2011, 08:28 PM
That IGN reviewer completely and utterly misses the point. What an idiot. Regardless, Wind Waker will almost certainly forever be a good looking game. The style is wonderful.

Oh, pre-ordered limited edition so that I could have motion plus. The CD is a plus. I'm also putting off Skyrim, despite it arriving today, as I feel I can only handle one big game in conjunction with my work. Hype is me.

QuantaCat
15-11-2011, 08:57 PM
Is there a golden Wii to be had with this new zelda?

please please please please

QuantaCat
15-11-2011, 09:00 PM
Also, that fucking IGN guy doesnt seem to realise that though "HD cameras are the standard", film is still higher in quality and resolution than anything HD can throw at it.

4K vs 35mm, then we can talk about comparisons.

The JG Man
15-11-2011, 09:23 PM
Is there a golden Wii to be had with this new zelda?

Alas, the best you'll get is the golden Wiimote+ with the limited edition. Which I'm sure won't at all look awkward using the nunchuck in whatever colour you have...

The JG Man
19-11-2011, 03:08 PM
Alright! So I've been playing it for about 3 hours, I guess. Time to make some early impressions:

-Graphically, the art style is nice. That being said, at times it looks reallllly jaggy and the textures just aren't that great in spots. Now, this is made up for it with the art style somewhat, but it's just frustrating that Nintendo didn't elect for something more powerful with the Wii, but, it works well enough. This is definitely an extremely good argument for using Dolphin though.
-Orchestrated loveliness.
-The opening section is very meta and doesn't take itself too seriously. It's nice to pick up on all the nods and winks.
-Zelda is a massive tease, it's brilliant.
-Motion controls I'm not entirely sold on. It's 1:1, but some of the combat seems a bit over-sensitive, that you must hit this specific line. It means you can get into it quite nicely, but it also means that it can be a little frustrating.. General control for other parts is similar; it generally works, but it's a bit iffy in spots.
-For that matter, I don't mind motion controls being added as an alternative for something else, but not for some things. There's a few little spots where I've groaned and said to my housemate (who's been in and out watching) "This is the gratuitous flailing part". Waggle Control at its best and similarly worst.
-Got a little lost into the second main section. The map isn't entirely magnificent. I admit there was some over-sight in me not looking properly, but it wasn't completely helping.
-There's a stamina bar. There is no need for a stamina bar. It is stupid. I can see absolutely no reason why it was put in other than to make you wait around every so often or to collect obviously placed green little things that make you regain energy.

I'm getting a very strong Wind Waker vibe, especially with some of the musical cues. I also don't recall there being specific save points, which is a little disheartening. Anyhow, I can see where the game might've been docked a few points in reviews, but I'm warming up to it. Once I got past the initial "Yarda blah, this is Zelda" stuff, it was a lot more enjoyable.

Squiz
19-11-2011, 05:25 PM
I'm getting a very strong Wind Waker vibe, especially with some of the musical cues.Wind Waker, yay!

I also don't recall there being specific save points, which is a little disheartening.Save points, uh-oh.

The JG Man
19-11-2011, 05:59 PM
Had my first death as I tried to commit to jabbing a spider. The game refused to acknowledge this and it ended up killing me. Motion controls for the win!!

Edit: Motion controls can go die in a fire. Frustrating as hell and not at all enjoyable. I want my controller back so that I can actually control it.

deano2099
19-11-2011, 06:17 PM
The save points are fine. There's shitloads of them, and unless you're quitting the game, they only save your position rather than progress (so if you save at the start of the dungeon, clear the next room, die, you go back to the start but the room is still cleared).

I don't mind the stamina bar but the degrading shield is just annoying. Also really missing the lack of mini-games (now you get most upgrades through collecting and crafting) and it just doesn't feel as tight as the other Zeldas. There's places where the game just doesn't hint enough at where you should go or what you should be doing, and a certain item you get early on really opens up the possibilities for puzzle solving a little too much that sometimes you're unsure if you're doing the wrong thing or just don't have the timing right.

Overall, it's Zelda. But at the moment it's a bit hit and miss for me.

The JG Man
19-11-2011, 07:11 PM
The first dungeon is absolutely slaughtering my enjoyment. It's highlighting everything that's wrong with motion controls, the pitfalls they create (literally) and how implemented badly they're a lesson in frustration. You also don't take any heart damage after falling down into a hole. Instead, you just re-appear right before the jump. Motion controls, in this game, have added nothing that an analogue stick couldn't have done in a satisfactory, if not better, way. It's been padding. I'm up to a boss and I'm having real difficulty actually hitting them when I want to. At the moment, I'm really forcing myself to play. I'd rather have the long introduction of Twilight Princess back. At least you got Epona in that.

Edit: Still on the same boss. I know what to do. I'm trying to motion to the game to do what I want it to do, but Link has a funny interpretation of what that is, usually throwing himself at the enemy. My, what a fun thing to be stuck on now for half an hour!

Edit 2: It's just occurred to me that come the WiiU, there's going to be even more motion control shit in Nintendo games. Argh. I was originally gonna talk about Darksiders in this post, but now I feel the need to bring it up again. If Darksiders 2 can eclipse its predecessor and take a few more queues from Zelda (not Skyward Sword) whilst developing its own way of doing things, I can't see any reason why it won't surpass Zelda. The Zelda games are great fun, but they've been getting a bit formulaic. They're all aping, in some way, off the Ocarina of Time aspect which is a slightly deferred way of doing what was done in A Link to the Past (revisited better in Twilight Princess) whilst SS feels like Wind Waker, but with sky instead of water. Darksiders 2 has me play as Death who can dual-wield Scythes. That, already, makes me incredibly excited for the sheer absurdity of it all. I think Zelda has become a bit too complacent of itself and settled for making a good clone of itself rather than pushing it out there.

The thing is, whilst Twilight Princess had worse motion controls, relatively speaking, the less involved they were meant they weren't so badly done. Because of the accuracy here, it really rams it home that when it doesn't want to work, it will not work, whilst TP kinda got you in the mindset of "I can flail at the very least". It surely has to be why bottomless pits don't reduce health now because the level of precision and control you can have with the analogue stick in moving is more secure than that of the motion controls and if the latter is integrated more, you have to make set-backs for it. It's a small thing, sure, but it's so utterly useless.

Anyhow, I should point out that I did, eventually, beat that boss, but good lord was it a joke. Doing vertical slices when I'm clearly flicking horizontally, Z targeting that couldn't decide which way it wanted to face. The dungeon itself was also shockingly linear. I know it was the first temple, but good lord. So far, I wouldn't even say I'm disappointed, I'd just say it's been mostly bad.

QuantaCat
19-11-2011, 09:08 PM
Sounds like your equipment isnt calibrated well enough.. or not? I dont know how this works for the Wii, ive only had limited experience with it.

The JG Man
19-11-2011, 09:11 PM
It's calibrated fine and I re-centre it fairly regularly if I'm so much as a little out; I'm left-handed, but I still use the remote in the right hand, so I'm very cautious about it all. Even so, it's more the implementation, what you actually have to do with the remote that bothers me. Used for damn near everything for no reason other than to say it needs the M+ attachment.

I also want to point out the dungeon map has to be a joke. They've rolled it in with the compass and it also reveals levers and switches!

Edit: This game would be far better played on a dual-analogue stick. Replace the motion controls, especially for sword-play, with the right analogue stick so you still have all your degrees of movement. Anything that you need to control in 3D; left stick moves on X plane, right moves Y, left and right triggers change Z/close and near. Come to think of it, like Ape Escape on the PS1.

Flint
19-11-2011, 11:38 PM
Reading this motion control stuff, and how it confirms my fears, is nicely making me less annoyed about not being able to play Skyward Sword. Not played much Zelda but love the ones I have (OoT, WW and TP), but have zero interest in getting a Wii due to the waggle-focus.

The JG Man
20-11-2011, 12:01 AM
Do be wary though. This is just my opinion. I'm not averse to motion control as an idea, but like all things, it needs to be executed well for it to be...well, good. I don't think this is entirely done so. Perhaps I'll warm up to it later, but it's pretty disappointing to be so embedded.

Anyhow, I'll be going back into the game now. Reading around, it sounds like I'm over the worst part of the game. I hope that's true.

deano2099
20-11-2011, 02:21 AM
Interesting. I found the combat really tough at first (first boss took about 8 tries) but less because the controller not reacting right and more because the monsters seemed to change blocking positions too frequently.

A few things I've noticed (up to the 4th dungeon, about 20 hours in) now is that it's generally better to take combat slowly, get the sword ready and wait for an opening. Also one key thing I've spotted, which I guess is obvious if you swing the remote about but less so if you go for wrist flicks: if the sword is being held low, a low to high swing will be quicker than a high to low once, and vice versa, same for left/right. So initial position matters.

The JG Man
20-11-2011, 02:24 AM
I also think that's an issue with defensive positions just changing too quickly. Beat up the mini boss(es) of the second dungeon. They have rather large armour, so I really tried to go for the accurate slashes, yet that failed. Flailing randomly however? Success! Motion controls working fully.

Edit: I figure I might as well talk about the second area rather than make a whole new post and occupy this thread entirely.

So I finished the second area and I'm under 10 hours in, I think, as well as doing one side quest back in Skyloft. The second area greatly improved my thoughts in the game, but the dungeon was still pretty linear, as well as the path leading up to it. It did look very pretty though. The boss fight was pretty cool (and relied only on simple motion control, thank god) as well as having some great music for it too.

I did however get stuck in one place in the dungeon. I'm going to give the answer in the following, because I can guarantee at least one other person will befall the same fate. I'm not going to say where it is either, because you'll either get stuck or you won't. After you've pushed in the first button with the rolling ball, take it to the other side just before where you can't proceed. If you look to the cave wall, you can see a crack at the bottom of it. A bomb hit will damage the wall and a subsequent one will remove it, revealing the way to go.

I was looking around about the New Game + Hero Mode. The idea of having less health and enemies doing more damage is something I simply wouldn't be able to do with the combat mechanics as they are. It's a shame because the Wii hasn't had any use since Sonic Colours late last year, but I can see me packing it back up again once I finish this.

I really do need to do some work tomorrow, but I can see me enjoying a good chunk more of this. It's going to take a bit more good grace before I can forgive the game for the early hours, but I'm optimistic carrying on, so here's hoping.

The JG Man
20-11-2011, 09:30 PM
Third area complete! That exclamation mark is one of redemption for the game. The entire area maybe went on a bit too long, including a fetch quest having you go round a rather large area (also, I know where I'll be coming first when I get the hookshot). Anyhow, the mechanics are pretty cool and probably the first application of real thinking, but I know feel like I'm going through the motions of a Zelda game. A good one, but still pretty simple. The boss battle was pretty cool and despite needing motion control, actually worked well because you had time to react, unlike the first boss. I found it surprisingly easily, actually, but then very fun which I'm happy to take instead.

In fact, the work of playing has gone for me. The only thing letting me down now are batteries, which I've got none spare of.

Outright Villainy
23-11-2011, 02:10 PM
I like the idea of Dolphin, but I lazily can't be bothered to go through with doing all of it. Besides, at 480p, the best looking games do just about work. Playing Sonic Colours last year, it looked really, really good. Galaxy as well being an obvious choice. A good enough design will almost, but not quite, eliminate that lower-quality feeling because you just won't care.


Yeah, took me an hour or so, but I'm starting to notice the low resolution/horrible aliasing less and less now. I love how they cover up low res textures too, by having them sort of washed looking, like a watercolour painting or something, and by using DOF on more distant objects. It does a really great job of getting around the limitations.

Gameplay wise, I'm having a little trouble with the remote, needing to use full swings for accuracy, and having to recenter constantly for anything that needs aim. It's growing on me though, I like how the battles need a more thought, and especially the one against ghirihim was excellent, really sold me on it. It'd be frustrating as hell with a controller, having to quickly choose the right angle of attack, but with the mote it's a lot more intuitive, obviously.

The JG Man
26-11-2011, 09:43 PM
There are some really curious design decisions in this game. At times, the polish and coming-together of everything is fantastic and I feel like "Wow, this is a great game!" and other times I'm going "...so I guess the interns at Ninty did this then?"

For example, I've just undertaken about an hour's worth of location revising. Bearing in mind I started that about 15 hours into the game I'm a little disappointed that's happened so quickly. There are some nice cut-scenes and such, but...ehhhh, I wasn't terribly impressed. Also, there was one fight sequence before the fourth dungeon, where I'm at now, where due to the enemy count (3) I was able to flail and succeeded pretty damn well. That's a consistency fail, for me. It gets worse though. Fighting against 'The Imprisoned', you have this foreboding enemy boss with a limited, albeit generous, time-frame to defeat it within. How do you stop it? By attacking white wiggly toe things. These are attached to a giant monster that seems to be made of feathers and has two legs and a massive jaw. Design wise, it looked bloody stupid. Thematically, it threw me right off because I was going "...seriously?" And that's the problem. Consistency. Oh, also, motion control swimming...why? Just like why for the flying? It doesn't actually add anything to the game other than a more calorie burning alternative to moving in 3D space.

You know what bugs me most though? There's no sense of accomplishment or "...hell yeah!" moments, other than one within the first hour. In Ocarina of Time (I'm not going to spoiler this) you had looking out into Hyrule Field for the first time and having that daunting feeling. Or how about the exquisite sequence of riding Epona over the gap in the Gerudo Valley. How awesome was that?! I had similar feelings for that in Twilight Princess, both being engaged in entering Hyrule Field and the simple, if not fantastic, jousting fights on the bridges.

Nintendo have done a great job of making the characters feel like characters in a world as opposed to a game. They really have, but in doing so they've pretty much killed any sort of word-life. The overworld, such as it is, is hideously boring and devoid of anything meaningful. At least in Wind Waker you sailed by the islands and could pan around and see the world around you. Locations have, so far, been really linear and feel like levels as opposed to parts of a world. Whenever I feel like I have any attachment to this world, it gets broken one way or the other.

Granted, I've only played about 16 hours of the game (+/- factoring in time lost due to lack of saving (thanks Save Points!!) and time spent with the game open but not being played) but I've yet to see anything convincing me of any of the 10/10 scores this game got. It's good, great even, but I'm frustrated with so many things in it. I feel like a lot of the time I don't have control over Link's actions, or am disappointed in how certain things are done and so on. Ultimately, I'm enjoying it more than I'm not, but I am very thoughtful of the idea that perhaps my Wii was best spent still in its box and the money spent here would've been better on Darksiders 2 next year (which I was going to get anyhow).