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pakoito
15-11-2011, 09:45 PM
http://store.steampowered.com/app/22330/

5€ vanilla, 6.50€ for expansions and horse armor.

Anyone knows how's Steam version compatibility with mods? I play Nehrim (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1572-My-vacations-in-Nehrim)mostly but I'd still like to mod whatever the shit I want.

Althea
15-11-2011, 09:59 PM
Anyone knows how's Steam version compatibility with mods? I play Nehrim (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1572-My-vacations-in-Nehrim)mostly but I'd still like to mod whatever the shit I want.
I believe it is compatible with all mods, but you may wish to check the Steam forums to verify that.

Kodeen
15-11-2011, 10:00 PM
I'm actually playing this now. The only mods I have are all the different unofficial bug patches, and a leveling patch. They all seem to be working fine.

SirKicksalot
15-11-2011, 10:08 PM
All mods work. I have the GOTY edition. I never managed to reach the Shivering Isles lol

Obligatory modding guide: http://i37.tinypic.com/r7of1l.jpg
(http://i37.tinypic.com/r7of1l.jpg)

laneford
15-11-2011, 10:09 PM
Is there one essential and most importantly easy to install mod pack that consensus deems the one to play? I can't be arsed installing a billion mods for a week to find a conflict or that I've accidentally massively unbalanced the game.

Kodeen
15-11-2011, 10:14 PM
I'm having fun with my mostly vanilla setup. Not sure what everybody is always bitching about.

Of course I'm constantly second guessing my decision not to install the tentacle rape mod, but I wondered how it would impact immersion. It probably would.

pakoito
15-11-2011, 10:31 PM
Is there one essential and most importantly easy to install mod pack that consensus deems the one to play? I can't be arsed installing a billion mods for a week to find a conflict or that I've accidentally massively unbalanced the game.Nehrim, period. Autoupdater installation. New map, new skill system, new loot and leveling, new story, modmods. All of them better than Vanilla.

Squiz
15-11-2011, 10:35 PM
Of course I'm constantly second guessing my decision not to install the tentacle rape mod, but I wondered how it would impact immersion. It probably would.How many tentacles are we looking at here exactly?

pakoito
15-11-2011, 10:37 PM
All mods work. I have the GOTY edition. I never managed to reach the Shivering Isles lol

Obligatory modding guide: http://i37.tinypic.com/r7of1l.jpg
(http://i37.tinypic.com/r7of1l.jpg)Before discovering Nehrim, I went for FCOM (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Tes4Mod:FCOM), it fixes and mixes Francesco's, Oscuro's, Mart Monster's and some weapon mods. It's glitchy as fuck but makes vanilla almost playable.

pakoito
15-11-2011, 10:47 PM
Also, quick reminder: Andorans release is slated for the second half of 2011. The game will require a licensed copy of TES IV: Oblivion. (http://www.andoran.com/indexen.html)

PeteC
15-11-2011, 10:56 PM
. I never managed to reach the Shivering Isles lol


Nor me. Never played Knights of the Nine either. I will go back and rectify that at some point though.

And yeah, mods are no problem with the Steam version. I've got dozens installed on mine.

Berzee
15-11-2011, 10:56 PM
Nehrim, period. Autoupdater installation. New map, new skill system, new loot and leveling, new story, modmods. All of them better than Vanilla.

Agreed! It's very good. =)

However, it's different enough that it's not really a substitute for Oblivion. Just a more exciting game in the same engine. ;) With German voices.

I haven't beaten it yet because after a certain point in the main campaign it seems like the amount of tangential villages and sidequests really drops off in favor of having you stand around and listen to monologues.

Re: Oblivion -- I never found an Oblivion package-mod; I mostly used Franceso's, and kept the rest as it was except for better textures and faces and UI and other cosmetic stuff. (Plus I made a modesty mod so I could loot people without stripping them to their underwear =).

SirKicksalot
15-11-2011, 11:08 PM
I really want to play Nehrim but as soon as I exit the initial dungeon my framerate drops to single digits on a quad core + GTX 470 :( Changing settings doesn't have any effect.

pakoito
15-11-2011, 11:31 PM
I really want to play Nehrim but as soon as I exit the initial dungeon my framerate drops to single digits on a quad core + GTX 470 :( Changing settings doesn't have any effect.
It's in your end for sure. Tweak .ini, mess with forceare, install unofficial patches, update/downgrade drivers...

sabrage
16-11-2011, 12:12 AM
I have the "Game of the Year Edition," is there any way to tell if I have the deluxe DLC or just Shivering Isles? The DLC tab under Properties lists "Oblivion Game of the Year DLC," which doesn't exactly make it clear what all I got. I bought it under the impression that I had ALL the DLC, seeing as Fallout 3 and New Vegas included in the bundle came with all the DLC released (to date, I don't have the most recent NV DLC.)

Kodeen
16-11-2011, 12:15 AM
I have the "Game of the Year Edition," is there any way to tell if I have the deluxe DLC or just Shivering Isles? The DLC tab under Properties lists "Oblivion Game of the Year DLC," which doesn't exactly make it clear what all I got. I bought it under the impression that I had ALL the DLC, seeing as Fallout 3 and New Vegas included in the bundle came with all the DLC released (to date, I don't have the most recent NV DLC.)

Most of them will add quests either during or after the Patrick Stewart mission if you're starting everything at once. Or, you could go to the stables outside of Imperial City and see if you can buy some horse armor.

pakoito
16-11-2011, 12:19 AM
I have the "Game of the Year Edition," is there any way to tell if I have the deluxe DLC or just Shivering Isles? The DLC tab under Properties lists "Oblivion Game of the Year DLC," which doesn't exactly make it clear what all I got. I bought it under the impression that I had ALL the DLC, seeing as Fallout 3 and New Vegas included in the bundle came with all the DLC released (to date, I don't have the most recent NV DLC.)New game:

Ding! Theres a castle somewhere.

DING! You inherited some stuff.

DING! The gods have called you to a church.

DING!...

DING!...

DING!...

DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING! DING!.....

elephant god
16-11-2011, 03:31 AM
So Oblivion doesn't use GFWL or something meaner maybe, like Fallout 3, does it?

PeteC
16-11-2011, 03:37 AM
So Oblivion doesn't use GFWL or something meaner maybe, like Fallout 3, does it?

Nope!

message too short

hamster
16-11-2011, 09:04 AM
Is there any way i can get Shivering Isles by itself? I already have the base game (bought retail) with the pretty box and everything.

plivesey
16-11-2011, 09:23 AM
You can pick up Shivering Isles from online retailers still.

It's on Amazon for £5 (inc. P&P) here http://www.amazon.co.uk/Oblivion-Shivering-Isles-PC-DVD/dp/B000NJLQQA/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1321431733&sr=8-1

hamster
16-11-2011, 09:29 AM
I'm super-far away so i'm looking for a digital version. It's 5 pounds from Amazon anyway so i might as well get the GOTY which is only $5 USD on steam.

westyfield
16-11-2011, 10:03 AM
Can anyone recommend any good graphics mods? First time through I want the vanilla experience, but prettier. Something like the enhanced night sky mods for Skyrim, STALKER etc. would also be nice, if that isn't part of a graphics mod.

(I bought the Deluxe Edition on Steam, in case that makes a difference.)

pakoito
16-11-2011, 01:27 PM
Can anyone recommend any good graphics mods? First time through I want the vanilla experience, but prettier. Something like the enhanced night sky mods for Skyrim, STALKER etc. would also be nice, if that isn't part of a graphics mod.

(I bought the Deluxe Edition on Steam, in case that makes a difference.)Quarl's Texture Pack Redimized, OBSE with occlusion and godrays, Better Cities, and the body mods from that diagram last page. Better books/better flora/better weapons/betterXXXX. Unique Landscapes I think it was for new skyboxes (the night ones were just WOAH).

deano2099
16-11-2011, 01:38 PM
Is there one essential and most importantly easy to install mod pack that consensus deems the one to play? I can't be arsed installing a billion mods for a week to find a conflict or that I've accidentally massively unbalanced the game.

Not really, depends what you want from the game. Fact is if you want to change just a few things, it's easy enough. Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul contains a ton of extra content, comes with an installer. And Qarls Texture Pack makes most things look pretty and you can just copy it over. I think you do that first, then install OOO.

Together they'll vastly improve the experience.

BUT

There is a shitload of other stuff too. Better faces, better body models, nicer nightskys. Better Cities is amazing and makes the cities look astounding, Unique Landscapes does the same for the surrounding areas. There's tons of great quest mods and so on... thing is, once you start looking around for stuff you will find a million things that look great and want to get them all working together. But you don't need that. Just get a couple of simple things and play. And if anything really annoys you, look for a mod to fix it.

Jhoosier
16-11-2011, 01:41 PM
Hmm, so can anyone sell me on buying Oblivion? I've never played a TES game before. I did play FO3 and New Vegas, but not sure I want to play "FO3 without guns." Is it really that worthwhile? Because at the time all I really heard was a bunch of critiques about buying horse armor. Presumably mods will make it a good game. And then I'll have something to do until I can afford a new graphics card and Skyrim releases a GOTY.

Althea
16-11-2011, 01:51 PM
For £5, you cannot go wrong with the deluxe edition of Oblivion (Don't buy the cheaper version, it's completely pointless at those price levels, because you get more than the difference in content).

Calling it "FO3 without guns" is a bit daft, though, considering Oblivion came out first. It's not the most optimised game, it's far from the prettiest unmodded, but there are thousands of people around who have put dozens, if not hundreds, of hours into it unmodded. I'm one of them. If you can find the decent mods and get them to work then you will have a very good experience, in my opinion.

It was a good game before mods, I'd say it still is, but some mods will really enhance the experience, if not improve it.

P.S. Ignore what you heard about horse armour. It was five years ago, attitudes and views have changed.

Jhoosier
16-11-2011, 02:18 PM
Good enough for me. I just wanted to make sure that the storyline and all that was worth doing.

Anyways, if FO3 is "Oblivion with guns" it stands to reason the other way would be true too ;)

I'll have a go at it, though the flowchart pic posted earlier has me concerned. I'll see what mods people recommend here and try it out.

Althea
16-11-2011, 02:28 PM
Good enough for me. I just wanted to make sure that the storyline and all that was worth doing.
Oh, the main quest is flimsy. Ridiculously so. But like FO3 and (arguably) New Vegas, the real meat lies in the side quests and exploration, which Oblivion has a fair amount of.

pakoito
16-11-2011, 02:48 PM
Oh, the main quest is flimsy. Ridiculously so. But like FO3 and (arguably) New Vegas, the real meat lies in the side quests and exploration, which Oblivion has a fair amount of.Which is rather pointless most of the time.

Nehrim, I tell you, makes everything meaninful.

pakoito
16-11-2011, 02:59 PM
REVIEW: ELDER SCROLLS V: SKYRIM AND THE INDIE USER MODS THAT BROUGHT US HERE (http://www.indiegamereviewer.com/review-elder-scrolls-v-skyrim-and-the-indie-user-mods-that-brought-us-here/)

The Pink Ninja
16-11-2011, 03:12 PM
This was on my Steam wishlist and I was going to buy it when it was on sale for a price as low as this... but after watching the trailers for Skyrim it just seems so dated.

I did put hours in vanilla Oblivion and still had a ton of stuff un-done but my disk broke when I wanted to replay it.

So not, saving the money for Christmas sale games I actually want.

Jhoosier
16-11-2011, 03:27 PM
Well, I'm glad I'll be playing this before Skyrim, so hopefully I won't feel too put out. It's gonna cut into my Minecraft time, though. I can tell already.

Danny252
16-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Obligatory modding guide: http://i37.tinypic.com/r7of1l.jpg
(http://i37.tinypic.com/r7of1l.jpg)

Why doesn't every game I try and understand the mods for have one of these?

Althea
16-11-2011, 04:02 PM
Just ignore the bit about body mods. They're not necessary and more often than not they're offensive and stupid.

deano2099
16-11-2011, 04:39 PM
Just ignore the bit about body mods. They're not necessary and more often than not they're offensive and stupid.

I'd agree. Less that they're offensive, just not worth it. I did use them but getting them working with everything was the single most time-consuming part of the install. The only reason you'd want them for non-pervy reasons is if you want to use any custom clothing on your character that is designed for them.

Berzee
16-11-2011, 04:40 PM
My favorite Oblivion mod is one that has already been mentioned -- Unique Landscapes. Unfortunately there's no quests or anything attached to the new landmarks, but they're still awfully fun to encounter. =)

Wizardry
16-11-2011, 05:03 PM
Hmm, so can anyone sell me on buying Oblivion? I've never played a TES game before.
Play Daggerfall. It's the best one in the series by a landslide and it's absolutely free.


Just ignore the bit about body mods. They're not necessary and more often than not they're offensive and stupid.
Offensive? How? Why?

Althea
16-11-2011, 05:14 PM
Offensive? How? Why?
Just look at them! Unrealistic/uber-sexualised figures for both men and women, and they're entirely tasteless.

Kodeen
16-11-2011, 05:17 PM
Just look at them! Unrealistic/uber-sexualised figures for both men and women, and they're entirely tasteless.

Surely you can't go wrong with "NachtRitter's H-Cup Moving Breasts Normal for HGEC"

Wizardry
16-11-2011, 05:20 PM
Just look at them! Unrealistic/uber-sexualised figures for both men and women, and they're entirely tasteless.
But what's offensive about it?

Althea
16-11-2011, 05:23 PM
But what's offensive about it?
The fact that they're utterly vile and treat the male and female figures with the same sheer lack of respect as the modelling and sex industries? You know, broad shoulders, chiselled abs and a huge dick for the men, massive tits and a non-existent waist for the women.

They're repulsive.

riadsala
16-11-2011, 05:24 PM
Play Daggerfall. It's the best one in the series by a landslide and it's absolutely free.


Offensive? How? Why?


you know, I'm tempted. Might add it to my RPG list. Which means I won't actually get round to playing it for a good year or so :(

deano2099
16-11-2011, 05:41 PM
But what's offensive about it?

Thing is, I don't think they're offensive, sure, most bodies aren't actually like that but given that every model for male and female in Oblivion has to be the same, I don't object to them being modelled on the hottest people they know (some women / men do look like that, no less realistic having them all look like that than having them all look 'average').

But if someone is offended by something you can't argue about that. She has a right to find them offensive, I can see why she would, even though I don't agree with it. Offence is a reaction, not a logical deduction.

Wizardry
16-11-2011, 07:21 PM
The fact that they're utterly vile and treat the male and female figures with the same sheer lack of respect as the modelling and sex industries? You know, broad shoulders, chiselled abs and a huge dick for the men, massive tits and a non-existent waist for the women.

They're repulsive.
It's about as repulsive as the standard faces and bodies in Oblivion.

Althea
16-11-2011, 07:37 PM
It's about as repulsive as the standard faces and bodies in Oblivion.
Not really. The standard faces and bodies, whilst sometimes more bizarre than anything, do seem a little more closer to reality than many of the body replacers.

But hey, Wiz, you're still living in the time of perms, package-enhancing trousers and strap-tops in fantasy, so I can understand why you don't get it.

Wizardry
16-11-2011, 08:21 PM
Not really. The standard faces and bodies, whilst sometimes more bizarre than anything, do seem a little more closer to reality than many of the body replacers.

But hey, Wiz, you're still living in the time of perms, package-enhancing trousers and strap-tops in fantasy, so I can understand why you don't get it.
Ageism and body-shapeism all in one. Nice.

Berzee
16-11-2011, 09:09 PM
"Offence is a reaction, not a logical deduction."

If you take the word "offended" to mean "hurt feelings" then perhaps, or if you think of "offensive" in the way that a smell can be offensive -- then certainly different people will have different reactions to different smells.

But UnravThreads' use of the word "offensive" seems not to fall into either of these descriptions. If it were taking offense as if to a bad smell, you would say simply that the body-changing mods are ugly. Taking offense in the sense of having feelings hurt would be a weird reaction to an Oblivion mod, and I suppose would have something to do with feeling sad that nobody made a mod with your own body shape. I somehow feel this is not the case. =P

Rather her objection appears to be something along these lines -- "I do not think it is best when so many modders think the ideal game world should be entirely populated by overtly, unsubtly sexualized characters." Her own supporting arguments have leaned heavily on the Realism angle (TES attempting to be an immersive world, this is a sensible concern), though you could easily argue from Aesthetic grounds (mods taking the easy way out and choosing the same "obvious" image of beauty over attempting to capture various kinds of beauty, grotesqueness, and other interesting qualities), or Moral grounds (the effect of expecting entertainment to be, by default, highly sexualized -- and how this may effect the way you think about real people), or other grounds as well.

Of course all of those arguments would have answers and those answers would have answers (for instance you could point out, as we all heartily point out in response to various news stories, that it's Just A Game, and to that you could respond that it is not only a game, but also an art direction sought by a large majority of mod creators who are themselves actual people) and those answers could have answers too. =) Nobody needs to make any of these arguments or respond to any of these arguments necessarily, if once they have been made. And I am not particularly making any of them myself at the moment, only saying the ones that occur to me as possibilities.

The argument I *am* making is that you are doing UnravThreads a disservice by calling her offendedness a non-logical, non-deductive reaction -- when she has done plenty to hint at having an actual belief that something valuable is being attacked when so many of those mods are made. It is quite possible to deduce logically that something is under attack.

Instead of undermining her logic, you might be better off undermining her vocabulary if you really think "offensive" doesn't belong in a cool and calculated discussion. But even for that I am not convinced. If you find that something is being attacked, the thing that is attacking it is obviously on the Offensive -- and if you wish to help defend against it...well, clearly a Defender is by definition...Offended. =)

deano2099
17-11-2011, 12:48 AM
I dunno, generally when I find something offensive, I feel offended first and then have to work backwards as to the why. It's rare you'll see something, look at it, think about it, consider it and then decide it's offensive.

Hence I see it as a reaction. That's not to undermine Unrav's response. The offense will generally come from something that clashes violently with a core set of beliefs, and you can unravel that to find a logical reason for it being offensive to you.

My point was you can't deny that someone finds something offensive. You can't take something that's offending someone, and sit them down and explain why they shouldn't be offended. Not without changing their core belief in whatever triggered that reaction

Berzee
17-11-2011, 01:09 AM
My point was you can't deny that someone finds something offensive. You can't take something that's offending someone, and sit them down and explain why they shouldn't be offended. Not without changing their core belief in whatever triggered that reaction

Then I am abashed to find that I have written at least a short essay on something that I actually agree with entirely. ^_^
Sorry about that =P it's true that it often takes some introspection before you realize how you Just Know something is Bad News.

Anthile
17-11-2011, 04:31 AM
Can't get more offensive than this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILuSd5oT-Ic&feature=related

hamster
17-11-2011, 09:55 AM
The fact that they're utterly vile and treat the male and female figures with the same sheer lack of respect as the modelling and sex industries? You know, broad shoulders, chiselled abs and a huge dick for the men, massive tits and a non-existent waist for the women.

They're repulsive.

Utterly vile? I was under the impression that most men want big dicks, broad shoulders and chiseled abs and women would dearly like big tits and slender waists.

Althea
17-11-2011, 10:13 AM
Utterly vile? I was under the impression that most men want big dicks, broad shoulders and chiseled abs and women would dearly like big tits and slender waists.
And why would they want that? Is it not because the model, clothing, diet and sex industries put forward those figures as idealistic and "perfect"? Oh, yes, it is because of that. Some people are naturally going to have figures like those, yeah, but the pressure - especially on women - to be thin with big breasts is immense.

That's why the mods are offensive. They take those destructive ideals and call them things like "perfect bodies" or "sexy forms". No, they're not. They're gross and ridiculous.

And don't even get me started on the hundreds/thousands of so-called "armour mods" out there. Ugh.

Jockie
17-11-2011, 11:00 AM
Less people would download the mod if it were called 'Perpetrating ludicrous expectations of body types'.

It's in fairly poor taste though. While not personally offended, it's not exactly helpful when mods are named in this manner and the only defence I could think of - 'Hey, welcome to the internet, it's full of sexism and objectification, so deal with it' is the kind of attitude that enables this kind of thing in the first place.

hamster
17-11-2011, 11:09 AM
And why would they want that? Is it not because the model, clothing, diet and sex industries put forward those figures as idealistic and "perfect"? Oh, yes, it is because of that. Some people are naturally going to have figures like those, yeah, but the pressure - especially on women - to be thin with big breasts is immense.

That's why the mods are offensive. They take those destructive ideals and call them things like "perfect bodies" or "sexy forms". No, they're not. They're gross and ridiculous.

And don't even get me started on the hundreds/thousands of so-called "armour mods" out there. Ugh.

I'm quite sure that there is a biological logic i.e. intrinsic reasons that make up our appraisal of beauty. Things like obesity are obviously unhealthy: it doesn't make evolutionary sense to find an unhealthy mate-> therefore obesity = ugly. Big breasts are probably a good thing as it indicates good health and plenty of milk for the young. Muscles? Strength.

That being said, it's certainly true that there's certainly a small amount of influence. Back in the Victorian days for example, it was fashionable and pretty for girls to be slightly plump. And since people were okay with that, I guess what that means is that at least in respect of body shape/mass/fat, we aren't wired to be very specific - it's only when you get to the extremes (emaciation to unhealthy obesity) that the red flag gets raised.

Basically I don't think concepts of beauty are wholly and arbitrarily determined by "the media". How would they converge upon the same ideal anyway? Are they part of a cartel?

Althea
17-11-2011, 11:25 AM
Basically I don't think concepts of beauty are wholly and arbitrarily determined by "the media". How would they converge upon the same ideal anyway? Are they part of a cartel?
You don't? Well, I'd suggest you go and look at the covers of a few women's magazines, look at the popular female porn models, look at half of the female-oriented programming on TV and then you may understand that the same ideals are prevalent.

But I subscribe, personally, to the idea that we are hard-wired to find certain things attractive in the opposite sex (or, for some of us, the same sex). Wide hips could hint towards easier childbirth, which means less risk for both the child and the mother. Overly large breasts could actually be seen as a turn off as they may lead to back problems at the very least. Someone with good hair may have a good diet, and things like hair and skin reflect that. The thing with "plumpness" was that it generally hinted towards a rich upbringing and it meant they weren't struggling to find food to eat (whereas the poor obviously were). To contrast with our own ideals of large breasts, in mediaeval times it wasn't uncommon for smaller breasts to be seen as attractive.

There's obviously some cultural influence to what we find attractive or not, but I do personally believe that certain things are also hard-wired into us.

Ahem. But still, I think those mods just aren't worthy of praise or celebration. We criticise many games for having bikini armour and highly sexualised characters, whether it's done without a hint of irony or, in the case of games like Hunted, with tongue firmly in-cheek, yet we don't seem to do so as much for these kinds of mods. Yes, they're optional, but on the various Nexus sites (TES, Fallout, Dragon Age), you can't move without encountering them in some form.

Taidan
17-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Personally, I think it's not truly the concept of an aesthetic ideal physical form for men and women (when used as art) that people find offensive, (As Hamster mentioned above, there are strong biological influences on this ideal, as well as elements of fashion and the zeitgeist) but it is the perceived pressure in Western culture to adhere to this ideal that irks so many.

In that respect, when it comes to the values that these games espouse, naked hotties should be amongst the least of our worries. (Unless you're a self-obsessed fat minger, LULZ)

What about the preferred methods of conflict resolution that these games, with both other sentient beings and animals alike? Why is killing often the only way to resolve a matter of the criminality of Evil Wizards, when surely incarceration followed by a lengthy rehabilitation sub-game would be ethically preferable? Why should any wild animal die, when it is in fact usually the players own trespass into the animals territory that is the root cause of the beast's aggression?

What about matters of governance or economy? Why do so many of these games often portray a romanticized monarchy as the perfect system of governance for these idealized fantasy worlds, despite the fact that the people usually have no representation and are often living in relative poverty as a result? Where are the polling booths?

What kind of examples are we setting for impressionable young minds?

Let's not even get started on the portrayal of unlicensed pharmaceuticals in these games...

**Warning: Above post contains elements of satire, and should not be taken seriously.**

hamster
17-11-2011, 11:52 AM
You don't? Well, I'd suggest you go and look at the covers of a few women's magazines, look at the popular female porn models, look at half of the female-oriented programming on TV and then you may understand that the same ideals are prevalent.

But I subscribe, personally, to the idea that we are hard-wired to find certain things attractive in the opposite sex (or, for some of us, the same sex). Wide hips could hint towards easier childbirth, which means less risk for both the child and the mother. Overly large breasts could actually be seen as a turn off as they may lead to back problems at the very least. Someone with good hair may have a good diet, and things like hair and skin reflect that. The thing with "plumpness" was that it generally hinted towards a rich upbringing and it meant they weren't struggling to find food to eat (whereas the poor obviously were). To contrast with our own ideals of large breasts, in mediaeval times it wasn't uncommon for smaller breasts to be seen as attractive.

There's obviously some cultural influence to what we find attractive or not, but I do personally believe that certain things are also hard-wired into us.

Ahem. But still, I think those mods just aren't worthy of praise or celebration. We criticise many games for having bikini armour and highly sexualised characters, whether it's done without a hint of irony or, in the case of games like Hunted, with tongue firmly in-cheek, yet we don't seem to do so as much for these kinds of mods. Yes, they're optional, but on the various Nexus sites (TES, Fallout, Dragon Age), you can't move without encountering them in some form.

You just repeated what i said. It follows therefore that since people aren't contriving to manipulate their bodies into irregular forms or shapes in conformity with an arbitrary and possibly destructive paradigm but are rather largely listening to their biological impulses...so I don't understand what's so reviling about any of this.

Unless what you really mean is that an 'idealized portrayal' tends to objectify women?

Well, I think it's just pleasant eye candy. So should you.

deano2099
17-11-2011, 01:20 PM
Yes, they're optional, but on the various Nexus sites (TES, Fallout, Dragon Age), you can't move without encountering them in some form.

I think the optional thing is key though. You don't have to put up with it to play the game so it doesn't have any negative impact on people that don't want that sort of thing. There are other body mods, including some that make the default body shapes 'less attractive' I believe. I mean let's face it, the default female model in Oblivion may not go down the huge chest route, but she's certainly far, far hotter than 'average'.

That the most popular and most common ones are the porn-star style ones to me is a result of that look being seen as the 'ideal', rather than a cause of it, because you have to actually go and seek it out. It's not just there in the middle of your film, advert, game, etc.

Althea
17-11-2011, 01:29 PM
because you have to actually go and seek it out. It's not just there in the middle of your film, advert, game, etc.
But it's not that simple. If you begin to look at mods for Oblivion or the games mentioned, you instantly run into them. They often sit in the top 50 mods for each game multiple times. When you come into modding communities, they're often mentioned in the same breath as other mods.

Improving the models and textures of characters, fine, I don't have a problem with that. My problem - personally - is that so many armour and character mods go too far in what I consider the wrong direction. In these modding communities, the "decent" mods are buried beneath tons of crap. To find that one set of lore-friendly armour, I have to go through pages of thong armour, metal bikinis and animé costumes. To find that one mod which helps make characters look better, I have to go through pages of animé faces, new races, "beautification" mods and so forth. That is why I largely turn my back on the modding community, because it's not worth spending hours going through crap to find the one mod I like.

I didn't mean to imply those mods cause the ideal, but they certainly propagate it and its ideas.

deano2099
17-11-2011, 01:58 PM
But it's not that simple. If you begin to look at mods for Oblivion or the games mentioned, you instantly run into them. They often sit in the top 50 mods for each game multiple times. When you come into modding communities, they're often mentioned in the same breath as other mods.

Improving the models and textures of characters, fine, I don't have a problem with that. My problem - personally - is that so many armour and character mods go too far in what I consider the wrong direction. In these modding communities, the "decent" mods are buried beneath tons of crap. To find that one set of lore-friendly armour, I have to go through pages of thong armour, metal bikinis and animé costumes. To find that one mod which helps make characters look better, I have to go through pages of animé faces, new races, "beautification" mods and so forth. That is why I largely turn my back on the modding community, because it's not worth spending hours going through crap to find the one mod I like.

I didn't mean to imply those mods cause the ideal, but they certainly propagate it and its ideas.

Fair point - I think on the one site it specifically lets you filter out 'adult' mods that gets rid of most of them. And at least for Oblivion, hanging out on the mod forums for a while, the default body mods that people recommend were... enhanced... but not the more ridiculous ones. And they weren't hugely talked about. But yeah, on some sites it's hard to wade through them.