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Drinking with Skeletons
17-11-2011, 04:40 PM
If you're anything like me, you've spent a truly shameful amount of time with Skyrim since launch. After having spent so much time with it, I think now would be a great time to talk about the skills: what's good, what's not-so-good, and how to get the best out of the skills. Let's keep plot-and-quest spoilers out of it (don't talk about specific Daedric items or Shouts that are awesome for a certain skill/build!), but let's assume that MECHANICAL SPOILERS REGARDING PERKS AND LEVELING BENEFITS abound.

I'll get us started by saying that Destruction is pretty awesome. Each skill increase reduces the magicka cost of spells and allows you to get more charges from a Destruction-charged staff. The additional secondary effects for Fire, Ice, and Lightning magic are quite good. I'm curious about a few things though. Is there any reason to pick up the rune-enhancing perk if I don't use them? That is, is there a completion-bonus for getting every perk in the tree or a benefit to it that I don't see? Also, does anyone know if ice magic slows enemies down? It seems like it does, but it's inconsistent; maybe if they're low on stamina?

Smashbox
17-11-2011, 04:45 PM
I initially tried using a one-handed weapon and left-handed destruction spells, but at a certain point it became very difficult for me to kill enemies (especially magic users). I eventually had to pull out my shield and swallow my pride. After a few hours, I found myself much more successful as a specialized warrior type (who heals himself).

As for getting perks you don't need in a tree - I haven't seen any reason to do so. And frost slows enemies with low HP, I believe.

Drinking with Skeletons
17-11-2011, 04:50 PM
@Smashbox: I've been playing as a dedicated mage, so my Destruction is in the 80s and I've cranked the hell out of my magicka. The game does seem to reward specialization.

And magic-using enemies are indeed the worst, since they really know how to abuse shield and summon spells. I've got a few Shouts that really work wonders for giving me some breathing room.

lasikbear
17-11-2011, 05:04 PM
I have been using mostly heavy armor and two handed, after coming to the same realization as Smashbox that the spell+weapon combo seems kind of weak. I generally burn all my mana up to start the fight with destruction spells then finish everything off with my weapon. Ice spike has been awesome so far, I can only cast it maybe 4 times but killing people with it and sending them flying is so satisfying.

Otherwise I think my highest skills are smithing and enchanting which means I have great equipment and tons of money, my main issue now is getting rid of the 48 gold rings and other assorted jewelery I made after finding a gold mine.

Smashbox
17-11-2011, 05:06 PM
Seriously, has anyone come up with a solution for offloading all your en¢hanted good$? Fast traveling to every vendor you've met sucks and waiting for 48 hours for their money to regenerate sucks, too.

I need to meet a shipping magnate or a wholesaler or something.

Wolfenswan
17-11-2011, 05:10 PM
Smithing, pickpocketing and enchanting skill way too fast for my taste (especially smithing with hide bracers first and dwarven bows later) so I'd recommend that "Slower Skill Gain" Mod from the Nexus.

My main character currently has 90 in two-hand but only 56 in heavy armor which (as a TES stable) skills rather sluggish.


Seriously, has anyone come up with a solution for offloading all your en¢hanted good$? Fast traveling to every vendor you've met sucks and waiting for 48 hours for their money to regenerate sucks, too.

i keep a few with me and store the others in a box in one of the houses as I don't need the money anyway.

Nalano
17-11-2011, 05:25 PM
Seriously, has anyone come up with a solution for offloading all your en¢hanted good$? Fast traveling to every vendor you've met sucks and waiting for 48 hours for their money to regenerate sucks, too.

I need to meet a shipping magnate or a wholesaler or something.

I saved up for a house just so I could store shit while I wait for the vendors in the main towns to restock. That being said, the Speech tree (!) allows you to "invest" in the merchants such that they have more money to buy your ludicrously expensive shit.

As for good skills, two-handed > one-handed until upper perks, at which point dual-wielding > two-handed for DPS. Basically, it's when your skill, crit rate and perks in one-handed outmatch the heavy armor and shields some NPCs use.

I'm in love with Blacksmithing, because it allows me to outlevel my enemies, at least in terms of gear, and is easy to level up (buy out/mine all the available iron, craft iron daggers until your eyes bleed). Getting Daedric weapons at level 20 pretty much solves most combat issues by itself.

csuzw
17-11-2011, 05:32 PM
Destruction isn't all good. Even only choosing magicka on level up, getting all the perks and having gear that gives extra magicka and regen, you won't be able to comfortably afford to use anything other than Firebolt for most of the game. Incinerate does 2.25x the damage for 8x the magicka cost. Especially against enemies that ward themselves you just can't afford to have an Incinerate miss or be resisted.

The only way to get round it is to abuse -Destruction% items and once you go down that route you'll soon find it's far too easy to get the cost of Destruction spells down to 0 at which point everything becomes a little silly.

Basically Destruction on it's own is not very well balanced and as usual Enchanting allows you to break the game without much effort.

Drinking with Skeletons
17-11-2011, 05:40 PM
I saved up for a house just so I could store shit while I wait for the vendors in the main towns to restock. That being said, the Speech tree (!) allows you to "invest" in the merchants such that they have more money to buy your ludicrously expensive shit.

As for good skills, two-handed > one-handed until upper perks, at which point dual-wielding > two-handed for DPS. Basically, it's when your skill, crit rate and perks in one-handed outmatch the heavy armor and shields some NPCs use.

I'm in love with Blacksmithing, because it allows me to outlevel my enemies, at least in terms of gear, and is easy to level up (buy out/mine all the available iron, craft iron daggers until your eyes bleed). Getting Daedric weapons at level 20 pretty much solves most combat issues by itself.

Yeah, the vendors+dragon bones/skin+enchantment skill make the Speech tree very tempting. It would probably be great for a thief, too, since one of the perks makes an invested shopkeeper into a fence.

Right now I'm trying to get a complete set of Orcish armor so that I can kit out a mannequin in one of my homes with enchanted armor, so hopefully I'll get a reprieve from their woeful funds as I try to decorate my house instead of make cash.

So crafting is effective enough to compensate for (relatively) weaker combat skills? That's nice to know.

Smashbox
17-11-2011, 05:45 PM
Yes - Nalano's right, all you have to do is buy all the iron you can (you should already have enough hides for more than enough leather strips if you've played a while) and make a million iron daggers (enter+click+enter+click+enter+click+enter+click).

If you want to get crazy, you can then enchant each of your million daggers, but this actually takes time. Souls don't grow on trees after all.

gundrea
17-11-2011, 05:49 PM
They do grow on dragons though.

Also I used a firestorm in an enclosed space once. I'm still picking corpses and loot out of walls on the other side of the map.

Jockie
17-11-2011, 05:55 PM
There is an area in the game where you can mine for Soul Gems, as well as a high number of the enemies there having Soul Gems as drops also.

Smashbox
17-11-2011, 05:58 PM
There is an area in the game where you can mine for Soul Gems, as well as a high number of the enemies there having Soul Gems as drops also.

Oh? News to me - thanks.

sinister agent
17-11-2011, 06:10 PM
I initially tried using a one-handed weapon and left-handed destruction spells, but at a certain point it became very difficult for me to kill enemies (especially magic users). I eventually had to pull out my shield and swallow my pride. After a few hours, I found myself much more successful as a specialized warrior type (who heals himself).

Blocking has been very useful for me. A shield's the first non-food thing I bought. Using your shield well can really turn the balance in your favour, even if you're using a cheap dagger against people with huge two-handed weapons. And that's without any magic at all, so far (including healing).

Alez
17-11-2011, 06:25 PM
The only way to get round it is to abuse -Destruction% items and once you go down that route you'll soon find it's far too easy to get the cost of Destruction spells down to 0 at which point everything becomes a little silly.

Haha that's how i broke my game. EXPLOIT SPOILER Your enchant levels the same regardless of the soul gem quality. You can buy shitloads of low level soul gems from almost everyone at the Mage guild. Then you can just travel to Solitude to that clothes store and buy all the cheap clothes you want.
I reached from 20 to level 80 stupidly fast. Spoiler end

Now if there is an enemy that takes more than 3 hits i just stop time using that level 3 shout and pound away since i have around -20% to destruction on all but 2 apparel items.

I have to question something though. Magic damage doesn't go up with skill level. Only those 2 perks per element increase your damage. Higher level only helps with lower mana. I only need master spells, but after that no more damage upgrade. Won't that make me really weak towards higher levels? Will being able to spam spells be enough?

By that logic, i should just stop leveling up at 100 destruction or else it would make me weaker and weaker by every level, instead of stronger.

Jockie
17-11-2011, 06:30 PM
I have to question something though. Magic damage doesn't go up with skill level. Only those 2 perks per element increase your damage. Higher level only helps with lower mana. I only need master spells, but after that no more damage upgrade. Won't that make me really weak towards higher levels? Will being able to spam spells be enough?

By that logic, i should just stop leveling up at 100 destruction or else it would make me weaker and weaker by every level, instead of stronger.

From what I've read on other forums, that is indeed a problem. Magic doesn't appear to scale as well as top tier, heavily upgraded weaponry, along with the more effective weapon damage perks.

slick_101
17-11-2011, 06:52 PM
Currently I'm a mage/archer combo. I am currently using a the destruction mage clothing with a ranger hood and everything else being glass. but so far I've really tended to use my bow + sneak. with all my stat bonuses I've got an ebony bow that does 123 with elven arrows + mana damage. times that by 3 for the sneak attack perk and I'm taking taking down most units in 1 hit bosses during quests If I can sneak up on them are generally 2-3 including non sneaky attacks. I did try the full heavy metal + dual wield. but I was constantly dying so re-rolling a mage/archer is the best thing.

Drinking with Skeletons
17-11-2011, 07:02 PM
@Jockie:

Soul Gems--including Black Soul Gems--seem overall much more common this time around. Are dwemer automatons powered by Soul Gems? Because they seem to carry a lot of them. Their general toughness and the typical complexity of dwemer ruins kind of keep me away, though.

Drinking with Skeletons
17-11-2011, 07:09 PM
From what I've read on other forums, that is indeed a problem. Magic doesn't appear to scale as well as top tier, heavily upgraded weaponry, along with the more effective weapon damage perks.

How high does this apply? My Destruction is in the 80s, I'm at level 26, and I have access to Expert level spells. My big problem isn't damage--the Expert level spells do a lot of damage--but Magicka. I've put all but two of my level ups toward Magicka, but I still burn through it like mad. I'm an Argonian--which doesn't help, but c'mon, lizardman--and I'm using the Lord blessing. I used the Atronach for a while, but I found the hit to Magicka regen outweighed the bonus Magicka, and I'm frankly horrified by the prospect of the Apprentice's double damage from magic.

Jockie
17-11-2011, 07:16 PM
How high does this apply? My Destruction is in the 80s, I'm at level 26, and I have access to Expert level spells. My big problem isn't damage--the Expert level spells do a lot of damage--but Magicka. I've put all but two of my level ups toward Magicka, but I still burn through it like mad. I'm an Argonian--which doesn't help, but c'mon, lizardman--and I'm using the Lord blessing. I used the Atronach for a while, but I found the hit to Magicka regen outweighed the bonus Magicka, and I'm frankly horrified by the prospect of the Apprentice's double damage from magic.

As others have mentioned, you can spam - magicka cost (school) enchantments onto your equipment, meaning you can sustain a lot of spells and even have infinimana and Enchantment is pretty easy to level.

To be fair the forum I was reading the numbercraft on seemed to be talking 50+ in terms of levels, but the numbers suggested magic gets seriously left behind.

Also according to the random lore book I found (because I was curious about the prevalence of Soul Gems on Automatons too), they're used as some kind of conduit, but aren't actully the source of the automatons power.

Drinking with Skeletons
19-11-2011, 03:13 PM
@Jockie: Ah. I'm at about level 34 now and am still doing fine with magic. I'm working towards maxing out enchantment for infinimana (honestly, I'm fine with the damage output, I just need more magicka) but for now a good compromise to buy myself more regen time has been to outfit a housecarl with enchanted ebony armor and Drain Health weaponry. Yes, Argis, keep that Deathlord busy while I blast you both with Flame Wall and then wait to cast Incinerate; don't worry, you can take it!

Speaking of companions, is it my imagination or do they receive infinite arrows and infinite weapon charges? I'm not saying its a bad thing--it's actually a good way to compensate for their simple-mindedness--but I'm not clear on how this works. And do they get infinite arrows if I give them arrows?

Alez
19-11-2011, 03:51 PM
i noticed my slave equipped arrows i gave him and used them. Probably because they were better than standard but yes, they do have infinite arrows. I think they might even have a bow if you don't see it in their inventory. I'm not sure but i think i saw my mage slave with a bow a few times and i sure as hell didn't give her any. Maybe i'm just crazy.

Skalpadda
19-11-2011, 08:56 PM
The followers have some basic gear, both melee and ranged weapons that you can't see by trading them, but if they die you can see them if you loot their bodies. They have infinite arrows but will use any better ones you give them (as with all the other gear).

I'm not sure speech skill is a good place to put perks. There aren't many speech checks in the game and though the extra money might be very tempting early on, once you've leveled up a bit money isn't really an issue while perks are invaluable.

Smithing is nice, but I'm a bit annoyed since I realised that even though my character is a sneaky thief and uses light armour I ought to have gone with the heavy armour path as you get to make light and heavy dragon armour whichever way you go and heavy gives you access to better weapons.

Sneak and bows is proving a very powerful combination when crawling through dungeons so far. Everything that isn't a boss will die from one sneak attack and even if other enemies come looking for you, you can either take them all down with sneak attacks before they locate you or quickly retreat and come back for another round on your own terms. Single very powerful enemies are much harder, especially if they get the drop on you, since you lose all advantages when something big and angry is right in your face, but getting a fully upgraded sword with a paralyse enchant coated in poison has helped with that.

Worth mentioning perhaps that the archery perk that slows down time when you're zoomed in doesn't let you fire arrows faster but makes it much easier to aim at moving targets. Not so sure that spending two points in to increase it to 50% is worthwhile. The perk that lets you move faster also seems a little pointless for a thief who wants to do quick hit and run attacks or pick enemies off from the shadows.

Hensler
19-11-2011, 09:43 PM
Followers seem to get infinite arrows, but not infinite sword charges. I've had to recharge the enchanted sword and dagger combo I made for Janessa several times. That girl is beast when you upgrade her equipment.

As far as magic goes, I've got enough Magica boosting and regenerating gear now that I have basically unlimited spell casting. The robes you get at the end of the Magic College questline are a good starting point for decking out your mages.

DigitalSignalX
20-11-2011, 12:45 AM
The whole iron dagger system is broken, I hope it gets patched out. I resisted the urge and only leveled my smithing with the highest grades I currently had skilled. It's slower, but in the end, doesn't feel like I'm gaming the system even if I just end up buying up ebony and dwarven alloy everywhere. Enchanting though leaves you with little choice, you can only wear 6-7 items, and so you're forced to enchant garbage stuff simply for skilling. Alchemy is an amazing money machine, once you get the vendors to buy anything you can drain an entire city's net worth on pots every day.

The hardest skill to level IMO is speech, so what I've been doing is visiting the speech trainers every level. It's tedious, but since you can only train at one NPC per level, and it costs a crap load, it's worth it. Perhaps it's an illusion, but it also seems like I now have more options for persuade and threaten in quests. I started this practice late though, so will see if/how it changes the game by doing it from near the beginning.

Question: since there are light armor shields, can mages effectively use block and casting in main hand combined? My impression is that mages are supposed to use their magic wards a great deal to mitigate cast delays and survival in melee, but wouldn't their damage mitigation also stack with a physical shield?

sinister agent
20-11-2011, 01:19 AM
You get speech skill increases from selling and buying, too. I don't know if bulk selling automatically applies a larger increase, but I suspect not (ie: I suspect you'd have to sell 1 item 10 times rather than sell 10 at once to get the maximum increase).

DigitalSignalX
20-11-2011, 01:44 AM
You get speech skill increases from selling and buying, too. I don't know if bulk selling automatically applies a larger increase, but I suspect not (ie: I suspect you'd have to sell 1 item 10 times rather than sell 10 at once to get the maximum increase).

Indeed, I think you're right. It still levels slow though, even when selling separate. Buying also seems to be faster then selling, as I inevitably will always get a level when I do a city circuit of ore/ingot buying for my smithing.

soldant
20-11-2011, 01:59 AM
Question: since there are light armor shields, can mages effectively use block and casting in main hand combined? My impression is that mages are supposed to use their magic wards a great deal to mitigate cast delays and survival in melee, but wouldn't their damage mitigation also stack with a physical shield?
AFAIK yes, they can. At least you can equip a spell in the main hand and a shield in the off hand. When you get the perk that allows blocking to shield from some types of spell damage I guess it'd be even better since using a shield costs only fatigue if you get hit and doesn't take time to charge up.

Actually I'm starting to wonder if the armour/spell system is broken in that way, because it's easier to play as a battlemage-style character. In the other games wearing heavier armour would reduce your spell effectiveness... in Skyrim it doesn't seem to make a difference, except that mage clothing often comes with bonuses to magicka which you could probably get from enchanting anyway.

DigitalSignalX
20-11-2011, 04:53 AM
AFAIK yes, they can. At least you can equip a spell in the main hand and a shield in the off hand. When you get the perk that allows blocking to shield from some types of spell damage I guess it'd be even better since using a shield costs only fatigue if you get hit and doesn't take time to charge up.

Actually I'm starting to wonder if the armour/spell system is broken in that way, because it's easier to play as a battlemage-style character. In the other games wearing heavier armour would reduce your spell effectiveness... in Skyrim it doesn't seem to make a difference, except that mage clothing often comes with bonuses to magicka which you could probably get from enchanting anyway.

Heavy still effects stamina and walk speed. It can not be enchanted with mana regen, whereas some of the robes can get 100% regen + reduced cost on different schools of spells, not to mention stealth craft goes out the window. I was curious why they had light armor shields at all, so perhaps this style was anticipated.

soldant
20-11-2011, 06:53 AM
Heavy still effects stamina and walk speed. It can not be enchanted with mana regen, whereas some of the robes can get 100% regen + reduced cost on different schools of spells, not to mention stealth craft goes out the window. I was curious why they had light armor shields at all, so perhaps this style was anticipated.
Wait, really? Oh, I didn't know that. Wish they'd tell me these kinds of things.

Alez
20-11-2011, 08:49 AM
Question: since there are light armor shields, can mages effectively use block and casting in main hand combined? My impression is that mages are supposed to use their magic wards a great deal to mitigate cast delays and survival in melee, but wouldn't their damage mitigation also stack with a physical shield?

Why would anyone not dual cast spells? You stagger enemies so you can stun lock them until they die, even if it takes you a long time. No need to block if they never reach you or can't shoot back.


Heavy still effects stamina and walk speed. It can not be enchanted with mana regen, whereas some of the robes can get 100% regen + reduced cost on different schools of spells, not to mention stealth craft goes out the window. I was curious why they had light armor shields at all, so perhaps this style was anticipated.

I didn't feel any difference on walking but when sprinting my stamina depletes immediately.
Enchanting i can't agree with though. I can enchant heavy armor with mana regen(which is useless) or the awesome -% spell reduction cost(which is game breaking). Maybe you were talking about the different pieces of apparel? For example, i can't put anything on boots other than resist fire, shock or frost but that doesn't have anything to do with armor ratting.

I honestly didn't find any negative effect to wearing heavy armor as a pure mage. Kinda silly really. Once you enchant your own weapons it doesn't matter that the game only gives or sells you robes with mage bonuses. You can give yourself even better bonuses on any armor you want.

Berzee
20-11-2011, 01:59 PM
The main reason for me to wear no armor is burden, actually. As a mage I hardly ever increase Stamina so I don't have the extra burden units to spare -- I would rather use Stoneshield with the Mage Armor perk and wear some spiffy clothes from Radiant Raiment.

P.S. I could also bypass the burden problem with a companion, but I really would rather travel alone.

soldant
20-11-2011, 02:02 PM
The main reason for me to wear no armor is burden, actually. As a mage I hardly ever increase Stamina so I don't have the extra burden units to spare -- I would rather use Stoneshield with the Mage Armor perk and wear some spiffy clothes from Radiant Raiment.
Oh that's actually a pretty good point, at least for the early part of the game where you'll be investing in major attributes (magicka and health for a mage) so I guess you'd be pretty hard up for carrying capacity if you wore heavy armour all the time.

Hensler
20-11-2011, 06:49 PM
W. Maybe you were talking about the different pieces of apparel? For example, i can't put anything on boots other than resist fire, shock or frost but that doesn't have anything to do with armor ratting.


I think they were trying to at least have the enchantments that can apply to armor have sort of basis in reality. For example, as an archer, I can enchant rings, helmets, and gloves to boost my archery damage. I guess the ring and gloves would be boosting the skill of my hands in actually working with the bow, and it applies to helmets because the magic is working on your eyesight and hand-eye coordination. It's also a balancing thing - if you could put the same maxed out enchantment on every piece of gear you're wearing, it could make you TOO powerful. And there are still a few dozen other exploits and sets of gear that overpower the character way too much.

Lacero
20-11-2011, 11:22 PM
It's also a balancing thing - if you could put the same maxed out enchantment on every piece of gear you're wearing, it could make you TOO powerful. And there are still a few dozen other exploits and sets of gear that overpower the character way too much.

I really miss 100% chameleon :(

Nalano
20-11-2011, 11:23 PM
I really miss 100% chameleon :(

That broke the game so fucking bad.

...well, broke the game more.

Fiyenyaa
20-11-2011, 11:34 PM
The main reason for me to wear no armor is burden, actually. As a mage I hardly ever increase Stamina so I don't have the extra burden units to spare -- I would rather use Stoneshield with the Mage Armor perk and wear some spiffy clothes from Radiant Raiment.

P.S. I could also bypass the burden problem with a companion, but I really would rather travel alone.

The Tower guardian stone gives you +100 weight carrying ability, and makes all items of clothing/armour (including shields, I've noticed) not count towards your burden. It's pretty overpowered really - so naturally I use it all the time.

Stormbane
21-11-2011, 01:57 AM
Yes - Nalano's right, all you have to do is buy all the iron you can (you should already have enough hides for more than enough leather strips if you've played a while) and make a million iron daggers (enter+click+enter+click+enter+click+enter+click).

If you want to get crazy, you can then enchant each of your million daggers, but this actually takes time. Souls don't grow on trees after all.

Have you tried Enter+y? ;)

Berzee
21-11-2011, 03:26 AM
You mean The Steed, right, Fiyenyaa? That's a good suggestion. Also! I just discovered that bizarrely, there's a perk halfway through the Pickpocketing tree that gives you +100 carry weight as well! "Extra Pockets"...heee.

Hensler
21-11-2011, 03:46 AM
Also a light armor perk that makes your armor not count towards your total. I don't know if there is a corresponding heavy armor perk.

soldant
21-11-2011, 04:05 AM
Also a light armor perk that makes your armor not count towards your total. I don't know if there is a corresponding heavy armor perk.
From memory I think Heavy Armour does too... so given the rate that you can pick up perks and the other mitigating options it's hard to see why the other armour types exist at all. Like I found a set of Dwemer boots that muffled walking noise. Benefits of heavy armour without the penalty.

Berzee
21-11-2011, 04:16 AM
Checking the perks it seems like the advantage for Light Armor would just be the +50% stamina regeneration. Heavy Armor on the other hand gets bonuses to punching, fall damage resistance, stagger resistance, and the ability to reflect damage instead of just dodging it.

I seem to remember the same kind of thing in Oblivion (can't remember far enough back for Morrowind) where Light Armor had lots of advantages throughout the levels but by the highest levels Heavy Armor enjoyed the same advantages plus a higher armor level.

I guess it's the reward for lugging around that heavy stuff the whole game.=P

Berzee
21-11-2011, 04:20 AM
I suppose armor noise is also a consideration but with the sneak perks and, as you mention, Muffle -- I don't suspect it ends up mattering much.

I happen to think the Light armors look cooler on the whole, though. =)

Gergin
21-11-2011, 04:30 AM
I think overall that heavy armor and light armor end up being decently close in pure armor rating with a few perk differences.

The main one for me is that Light Armor gets the 50% increased stamina regeneration rate whereas heavy does not.

Honestly, I think it mostly just comes down to aesthetics. Skyrim seems to place much more of an emphasis on having an idea for a character and roleplaying than the previous games. You can be a jack of all trades but the game rewards specialization. You're still free to min-max but I came to realize that doing so made the game feel way too "gamey" for me and it ruined the immersion. To each his own I suppose.

Hensler
21-11-2011, 04:48 AM
I'm curious - are the only perks the ones you get when you level up? I've found skill boosting books, but would love to get a few more perks than 1 per level.

EBass
21-11-2011, 05:01 AM
As I recall in Oblivion light armour always had less armour than heavy until you reached 100 where it gained 150% rating putting glass armour at the same AC as Daedric, but 100 on Heavy Armour meant it weighed nothing when worn, leading to the rather ludicrous situation of a 100 light armour user being as well armoured as a 100 Heavy armour user but MORE encumbered (as LA didn't have the no weight perk)

To be honest I don't really like the perk system in Skyrim, I always liked the way in ES games you got better at what you did rather than. "You killed an orc, now you're better at lockpicking!", doesen't really matter if you get 100 destruction or 100 One Handed, without pouring perks into it you might as well not bother.

And yes Destruction scales terribly, I'm 85ish destruction and I'm still only using the apprentice level "Firebolt" because the other two don't really do much more damage (they just spread it over an area) and cost craploads of mana. Some say balance doesen't matter in a single player game but I completely disagree, some of the skills are balanced terribly.

Anyway, I've been spreading my skills real thin because I hate reaching 100 skill in Elder Scrolls game and still using a skill that I'm not levelling, so I'm on about 80 sneak, Archery, 1H, Destruction, Resto, 70ish Lockpick, Block, Conjuration, and about 60ish everything else except light armour and 2H. Been training every level :)

Skalpadda
21-11-2011, 05:52 AM
Anyone able to clarify exactly what happens when you get to the soft level cap at 50? From what I've understood levelling slows down, but does that mean that skills take longer to gain or that you need more skills to gain a level? Do you still get to spend points on perks?

Gergin
21-11-2011, 05:54 AM
It seems to me like leveling slows down a bit each level you gain (in that you need more skill increases per level). Maybe I'm wrong though, I don't know.

soldant
21-11-2011, 06:16 AM
It seems to me like leveling slows down a bit each level you gain (in that you need more skill increases per level). Maybe I'm wrong though, I don't know.
That's intended throughout the entire game, but increasing higher level skills leads to greater level gains. Which is one way in which Skyrim attempts to encourage specialisation; you can level slower by levelling a large amount of skills, or you can level faster by only levelling a few.

It's still better than Oblivion's levelling problem though, where doing anything outside of your most desirable core skills could severely gimp your attributes later on.

Fiyenyaa
21-11-2011, 10:38 AM
You mean The Steed, right, Fiyenyaa? That's a good suggestion. Also! I just discovered that bizarrely, there's a perk halfway through the Pickpocketing tree that gives you +100 carry weight as well! "Extra Pockets"...heee.

Oh christ, it is The Steed. I was using The Tower before (the only one I'd found that wasn't magic-related) so I guess I'd got my wires crossed, there.

Drinking with Skeletons
21-11-2011, 05:10 PM
To be honest I don't really like the perk system in Skyrim, I always liked the way in ES games you got better at what you did rather than. "You killed an orc, now you're better at lockpicking!", doesen't really matter if you get 100 destruction or 100 One Handed, without pouring perks into it you might as well not bother.

And yes Destruction scales terribly, I'm 85ish destruction and I'm still only using the apprentice level "Firebolt" because the other two don't really do much more damage (they just spread it over an area) and cost craploads of mana. Some say balance doesen't matter in a single player game but I completely disagree, some of the skills are balanced terribly.



I actually like the perk system because of how it relies upon the player putting points into a skill for it to be truly worthwhile. My mage has a pretty high lockpicking skill (in the 60s), but I don't consider myself very good at it, and I would never consider my character a thief or a rogue. I'm just a mage who happens to be decent at picking locks. Meanwhile, I've maxed out Destruction (level 100+every perk maxed out), and combat reflects this fact. Compare with Oblivion, where not only did having a high lockpicking skill not really matter (due to the mechanics of the minigame as well as the Skeleton Key), but pretty much every character was going to be equally good at lockpicking, regardless of whether you were trying to play a thief, mage, warrior, or whatever. EDIT: Unless you focused exclusively on Open Lock spells, but it was far easier to just pick the locks than to work your way up the ladder to get the best spells in that class.

As for the damage difference between firebolt and the higher skills, I'm not sure I see where everyone is coming from. The damage difference between Incinerate and Firebolt is huge, and while I could chip away with Firebolt the better route for me--especially with groups--has been to use a follower and atronach to aggro to provide breathing room for magicka regen while blasting away with dual-cast Incinerate. Also, the damage-to-magicka-cost for the Master level spells is actually pretty decent (the AoE regarding Firestorm and Blizzard make them kind of iffy when using followers/summons, but Lightning Storm is absurdly powerful); the big problem is the charge-up to cast them, but if you can find the moment to whip them out they can make an enormous difference.

Shane
21-11-2011, 05:53 PM
As someone who's playing a stealthy Dark Elf, is it worth it to spend points in archery and alteration or should I only focus on one-handed, destruction, sneak and illusion?

PS: Does the enemy AI get alerted after noticing the corpses of its comrades?

Drinking with Skeletons
21-11-2011, 06:45 PM
As someone who's playing a stealthy Dark Elf, is it worth it to spend points in archery and alteration or should I only focus on one-handed, destruction, sneak and illusion?

PS: Does the enemy AI get alerted after noticing the corpses of its comrades?

I don't know much regarding your first question. In my experience, Destruction does not gain any stealth damage bonus, and I think it draws more attention to your position than arrow fire (or maybe I never got my Sneak high enough for my mage to stay hidden). Beyond that, I don't have a clue.

As to your second point, I'm not sure. They seem to be a sharper bunch this time around, but I haven't tried being a dedicated sneaker and have only dabbled in it with my second (currently low-level) character. Certainly they're more intelligent regarding missed arrow shots, and missing your target can be a quick route to an open fight. They also seem to go into full alert if they witness an ally getting killed--that is, they start looking for you and move toward where your attack came from, not immediately spot you--but I'm not sure about the full extent of their behavior and limitations.

Shane
21-11-2011, 06:57 PM
Actually, I am thinking of putting points in Destruction so as to be able to hold my own in a full on confrontation. Also, amongst Health, Magicka and Stamina which ones should I be putting more points in?

Berzee
21-11-2011, 07:37 PM
Actually, I am thinking of putting points in Destruction so as to be able to hold my own in a full on confrontation. Also, amongst Health, Magicka and Stamina which ones should I be putting more points in?

Maybe a viable strategy for a destruction + onehanded user who wanted to save on perks would be something like:

For destruction perks, take the Novice one, but don't go beyond Novice. Pick an element (probably fire would be the most all-round useful) and choose the two damage-increasing perks. Maybe do the dual-casting perk as well, for emergencies when you need to stagger someone...and that's it! This would give you the strongest fire-stream spell possible and the damage would go up as your destruction levelled, but at a cost of only 3 or 4 perks. Stream spells are easier to use alongside a weapon, anyway. =)

I have no idea if this would work or not but I think it'd be fun. :) Especially if you got some cheaper-destruction-magic items, you could just hold the button forever!

Gergin
21-11-2011, 07:57 PM
I've had some rather humorous experiences with the AI's behavior and dialogue when finding corpses.

Story 1:
Very early in the Stormcloak line you attack an Imperial camp. After the mission one of the soldiers walked up to an Imperial soldier and said, "I'm going to find whoever did this." First, she probably killed the guy herself and second, why should she care?

Story 2:
Stumbled upon some Alik'r warriors harassing a generic Redguard woman. Immediately attacked and beheaded one of them. His ally takes no aggressive action and instead examines his ally's corpse and states, "I'm going to find whoever did this." He found me alright, along with the business side of my battleaxe.

Nalano
21-11-2011, 08:04 PM
Story 2:
Stumbled upon some Alik'r warriors harassing a generic Redguard woman. Immediately attacked and beheaded one of them. His ally takes no aggressive action and instead examines his ally's corpse and states, "I'm going to find whoever did this." He found me alright, along with the business side of my battleaxe.

Funny thing is, this is a good example as to why it's best not to shoot first and ask questions later. You just offed the fantasy equivalent of Interpol.

archonsod
21-11-2011, 08:07 PM
As someone who's playing a stealthy Dark Elf, is it worth it to spend points in archery and alteration or should I only focus on one-handed, destruction, sneak and illusion?

PS: Does the enemy AI get alerted after noticing the corpses of its comrades?

Bows and daggers are considered silent weapons, so using them won't alert nearby enemies to your location (at least if you kill them, assuming you're using a dagger). Anything larger than a dagger creates noise, and will alert nearby enemies. Spells in particular should be avoided, as casting them generates light and sound - it's the equivalent of having a lit torch in one hand.

Enemies will only be alerted if they see someone keel over. If they come across a corpse they'll stop and give the usual utterances, and then return to their usual routine.

Gergin
21-11-2011, 08:15 PM
Funny thing is, this is a good example as to why it's best not to shoot first and ask questions later. You just offed the fantasy equivalent of Interpol.
Haven't finished the quest yet but they seem to me to more akin to paid assassins than criminal investigators.

DigitalSignalX
21-11-2011, 10:01 PM
I'm curious - are the only perks the ones you get when you level up? I've found skill boosting books, but would love to get a few more perks than 1 per level.

Several temples (don't know about all yet) have quest lines that will reward you with permanent perks. There's also at least one quest that will also give you a permanent perk "Sailors Repose" for reduced cost on restoration spells. I've also gotten perk-like benefits from completing quests for certain organizations. There's a cannibal quest chain that lets you wear a ring and get 10 hours of max health+regen if you nibble on any corpse シ It seems reasonable there are others out there waiting for my rogue to discover.


Oh christ, it is The Steed. I was using The Tower before (the only one I'd found that wasn't magic-related) so I guess I'd got my wires crossed, there.

I keep hearing about that, but have yet to discover it myself! Resisting the urge to wiki the location. Meanwhile, I have actually leveled pickpocketing up to get the +100.


As someone who's playing a stealthy Dark Elf, is it worth it to spend points in archery and alteration or should I only focus on one-handed, destruction, sneak and illusion?

PS: Does the enemy AI get alerted after noticing the corpses of its comrades?

For archery I would suggest conjuration unless you're going with a tank companion full time. Your first kill with sneak will always alert anyone near, but your sneak skill, armor type, and possibly encumbrance at that point will determine if they start to find you or just shrug it off. Bear in mind they will also detect your companion, so even if you get away with a clean first shot, they can (often) find your tank crouched behind you because of their heightened alert level. Giving them bonus to sneak jewelry can help that some.

Gergin
21-11-2011, 10:05 PM
There is also a quest that gives you a permanent effect that increases Dwarven Armor effectiveness by 25% and makes smithing level 15% faster.

Nalano
22-11-2011, 12:12 AM
Haven't finished the quest yet but they seem to me to more akin to paid assassins than criminal investigators.

Spoilers.

They don't assassinate her. She turns out to be a traitor responsible for giving up military information to the Aldmeri dominion and effectively handing her city over to them. She's a noble in hiding. They're sent by the rest of the noble families to catch her and bring her to trial. When you hand her over, they paralyze her in order to ship her back to Hammerfell.

DWZippy
22-11-2011, 12:34 AM
I've been using Archery quite a bit, along with smithing/stealth getting a few perks, because i didn't realise there was a soft cap. Tempted to roll again, but i might just try and focus in a bit more and make it a usable character, i'm attached to my wood elf, and he's the first TES character i've ever written a story in my head for.

R-F
22-11-2011, 06:30 AM
I'll get us started by saying that Destruction is pretty awesome. Each skill increase reduces the magicka cost of spells and allows you to get more charges from a Destruction-charged staff. The additional secondary effects for Fire, Ice, and Lightning magic are quite good. I'm curious about a few things though. Is there any reason to pick up the rune-enhancing perk if I don't use them? That is, is there a completion-bonus for getting every perk in the tree or a benefit to it that I don't see? Also, does anyone know if ice magic slows enemies down? It seems like it does, but it's inconsistent; maybe if they're low on stamina?

Destruction is amazingly underpowered.

You're far better off playing as a dedicated warrior or thief, at least for weapon skills. Simply because you can get a metric shit tonne of stacking buffs that can put your damage per second into the 2.5k range.

Shane
22-11-2011, 07:17 AM
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611

R-F
22-11-2011, 02:04 PM
http://www.skyrimnexus.com/downloads/file.php?id=611

Yeah, the damage still is nowhere near comparable.

Berzee
22-11-2011, 02:47 PM
AoE damage has to count for something, though =)
(not much good in a boss fight of course)

Alez
22-11-2011, 02:55 PM
AoE damage has to count for something, though =)
Yeah, it's really usefull to kill or turn against you followers or other friendly people around you. In that regard, destruction is the best.

EBass
22-11-2011, 04:22 PM
AoE really isn't that useful, you harldy ever fight more than 2 or 3 bad guys at a time. And to get them to group up you usually have to stand still and wait for them to come at you by which time the first to arrive will probably have smacked you up some. Unless you run around jumping over the scenery while benny hill music plays. By the time you've lined up a decent shot a warrior could probably have knocked all their heads in, its unusable whenever friendlies are around as well.

jryan
22-11-2011, 04:32 PM
I've come to the conclusion that Smithing and Enchanting are really all you need. You can create a kit that pretty much makes up for everything else.

Also, who needs followers? If you are going the destruction route it is almost a requirement that you go solo. You will kill everyone otherwise. Also, Double-fireball-stun-lock-of-death isn't under-powered.

My favorite oddity in the damage system is that, apparently, getting an iron arrow through the eye is a lot less damaging than a dwarven arrow through the eye, and only skilled marksman can kill someone with only one arrow of any type in their opponents eye. Unskilled marksman will need to hit their opponent in the eye 3 or 4 times to kill them.

EBass
22-11-2011, 04:44 PM
I've come to the conclusion that Smithing and Enchanting are really all you need. You can create a kit that pretty much makes up for everything else..

Pretty much, you can also exploit the hell out of the terribly balanced mechanics to create essentially infinitely good items. Enchant a set of items to help you enchant better and use them to enchant a better set of items to help you enchant better, repeat ad infinitum.




My favorite oddity in the damage system is that, apparently, getting an iron arrow through the eye is a lot less damaging than a dwarven arrow through the eye, and only skilled marksman can kill someone with only one arrow of any type in their opponents eye. Unskilled marksman will need to hit their opponent in the eye 3 or 4 times to kill them.

Welcome to every RPG ever

gundrea
22-11-2011, 04:47 PM
Pretty much, you can also exploit the hell out of the terribly balanced mechanics to create essentially infinitely good items. Enchant a set of items to help you enchant better and use them to enchant a better set of items to help you enchant better, repeat ad infinitum.


You are cleverly limited by how long you can stand to press that confirmation dialog "Are you sure you want to craft this?"

jryan
22-11-2011, 04:49 PM
Pretty much, you can also exploit the hell out of the terribly balanced mechanics to create essentially infinitely good items. Enchant a set of items to help you enchant better and use them to enchant a better set of items to help you enchant better, repeat ad infinitum.

Ah, so it works like alchemy did in Morrowind?

jryan
22-11-2011, 04:52 PM
So, in theory, you can make the super most awesome enchanting outfit, and then make the super most awesome blacksmithing outfit and then make super armor and super weapon to which you can apply super enchant?

I know what I am doing tonight!

gundrea
22-11-2011, 04:57 PM
If you go orc you get +5 to both enchanting and smithing. Acquire an iron ingot, a leather strip, a petty soul gem and a minor magic item to disenchant. Then go nuts.

Skalpadda
22-11-2011, 05:19 PM
Pretty much, you can also exploit the hell out of the terribly balanced mechanics to create essentially infinitely good items. Enchant a set of items to help you enchant better and use them to enchant a better set of items to help you enchant better, repeat ad infinitum.

Is there a fortify enchanting enchant though? I know you can bounce back and fourth between enchanting alchemy gear and making enchanting potions but I haven't seen an enchant for making you better at enchanting yet.

Berzee
22-11-2011, 05:23 PM
So, in theory, you can make the super most awesome enchanting outfit, and then make the super most awesome blacksmithing outfit and then make super armor and super weapon to which you can apply super enchant?

I know what I am doing tonight!

I've rerolled as an Imperial merchant who punches things only when she has to -- with the goal of eventually making the best pair of punching gloves in Tamriel (via the Fortify Unarmed enchant). So far she's had to punch a few wolves and spriggans to get some soul gems, but most of her time is spent within city walls where it's safe and where she can become fabulously wealthy, which is her secondary and more immediate goal. The wilderness is just uncomfortable compared to a nook with a nice crafting table.

I highly recommend trying to make the crafty stuff self-sufficient, when you get tired of making a living from ADVENTURE.

jryan
22-11-2011, 06:08 PM
As I was browsing the various skill trees I saw that Heavy Armor perk (Fists of Steel) that adds your gauntlet armor score to your hand-to-hand damage. I can see where, with the proper smithing skill, and Heavy Armor, you could make a pair of daedric gauntlets that could punch a hole through the world.

Gergin
22-11-2011, 07:22 PM
I'm rolling a new character after realizing that everybody and their made a two handed heavy armor wearing barbarian.

The premise is that I can never directly harm anyone or anything. This means a lot of illusion magic to make enemies kill each other and conjuring creatures for when there's only one enemy. Should be interesting to say the least.

Berzee
22-11-2011, 07:37 PM
The premise is that I can never directly harm anyone or anything. This means a lot of illusion magic to make enemies kill each other and conjuring creatures for when there's only one enemy. Should be interesting to say the least.

Why that sounds lovely! How about pickpocketing poisons onto people to harm them? Is that fair game?

Gergin
22-11-2011, 08:09 PM
Why that sounds lovely! How about pickpocketing poisons onto people to harm them? Is that fair game?
That's fine by me, I would do that if I was going for a sneaky pacifist but I wanted a more magic oriented character this time around.

Berzee
22-11-2011, 08:10 PM
That's fine by me, I would do that if I was going for a sneaky pacifist but I wanted a more magic oriented character this time around.

Haha, if you wanted a melee-oriented pacifist, you would have to let mudcrabs claw you until you got 100 heavy armor and the "reflect blows" perk. ^_^

Gergin
22-11-2011, 08:33 PM
Haha, if you wanted a melee-oriented pacifist, you would have to let mudcrabs claw you until you got 100 heavy armor and the "reflect blows" perk. ^_^
Heavy armor and double shields

I've heard it be referred to as The Confused Turtle

Drinking with Skeletons
23-11-2011, 06:03 PM
Destruction is amazingly underpowered.

You're far better off playing as a dedicated warrior or thief, at least for weapon skills. Simply because you can get a metric shit tonne of stacking buffs that can put your damage per second into the 2.5k range.

What's not obvious early on is that a pure mage simply must utilize multiple schools of magic. Alteration's "Flesh" spells are essential to surviving while using mage robes (yeah, you can grind Enchanting till you are unstoppable, but if you are playing organically it can take a long time to max it out), and fully upgraded offer ridiculous amounts of defense for an unarmored mage. Conjuration provides tanks, while Destruction is your bread and butter for offense.

Assuming that DLC will raise the soft cap, I would expect mages to start shining in the high levels by virtue of significantly empowering and actually using the different schools of magic. Warriors and archers will probably still be statistically better, but they aren't going to be as versatile in the long run. So long as melee, stealth, and magic are all viable, engaging, and fun, we should all have fun.

Gergin
23-11-2011, 08:40 PM
For all the people playing pure destruction mages, try the Illusion skills. Calm and Frenzy are absolutely amazing spells that can easily turn the tide of a battle.

Tei
23-11-2011, 09:02 PM
For all the people playing pure destruction mages, try the Illusion skills. Calm and Frenzy are absolutely amazing spells that can easily turn the tide of a battle.

I have see a lot of people on the internet tryiing to fix destruction, by suggesting "use something else". I think are all right.

Anyway, since is easy to cheat, and theres already mods that buff destruction, the other option is to install one of these mods and try to play like we originally intented withouth compromises.

My own solution has ben to hybridify my mage. I solve the 90% of the combats summoning a storm atronach, with my mage companion (that use storm spells), and I use storm spells. The other 10% are the hard ones, and I solve these with horrible cheese tactics.

DigitalSignalX
24-11-2011, 06:15 PM
Is there any difference between summons via the circle under the college and just normal spell summons you have learned?

Tei
24-11-2011, 06:37 PM
The what on what? circle? college?

Shane
24-11-2011, 06:45 PM
Spoilers:

Can anything be done about the lone prisoner in Falkreath?

Questionable
24-11-2011, 07:14 PM
Shane: [very minor spoilers] If it's the same prisoner I'm thinking of, yes. There's a quest involving the prisoner; I started it by speaking to a couple in the falkreath graveyard, but if they aren't there you may find them at the mill. [very minor spoilers end]

On Skyrim skills and character builds: Does anyone have suggestions as to how to level up conjuration, if I'm not playing a dedicated mage?

I've rerolled as a heavy armor and two handed fighter character, because I couldn't play past level 25-30 with my first two sneaky thieving characters (relying on sneak attacks to do your damage doesn't work well when you run into bears on the tundra, and I couldn't imagine sneaking everywhere). I figure having an atronach ally to take the heat off will help when I reach level twenty again, but increasing the skill is agonizingly slow.

Berzee
24-11-2011, 09:45 PM
You could try soul trapping everything you fight -- which will also have the benefit of tons of soul gems to use or just sell. My conjuration has gone up pretty fast with that, so far...though I'm still a low level, so I dunno about the long run.

Also, you could conjure yourself weapons instead of carrying them =)

Alez
24-11-2011, 10:35 PM
first of all, it's sadly easy as shit to exploit conjuration. Probably the easiest skill to level to 100.

Find ANY type of enemy, be it crab or giant. Kill it, cast soul trap on the dead body, rest for an hour after mana depletes and repeat.
Use both hands to speed it up(that's what she said?).

Secondly, the pathfinding for summons is somehow even WORSE than the already braindead followers. They won't help much in combat because they will be 3 rooms behind looking at a wall.

Questionable
24-11-2011, 10:53 PM
Thanks for the advice, I was trying to train with summoned weapons that were so much weaker than what I can craft that it was depressing. Soul trap sounds much more rewarding.

Pathfinding should be fine; I don't need the summons around long-term, just when I run into groups of enemies, that I don't want surrounding me.

Alez
24-11-2011, 11:17 PM
I don't need the summons around long-term, just when I run into groups of enemies, that I don't want surrounding me.
Which makes me wonder: anyone else having problems summoning? Totally random fails at casting. Like there is a 70% chance to successfully summon or something.

I often need to cast in battle and it's frustrating running around looking for the magic spot that works. Plus, sometimes they take up my mana, even if they don't appear. Am i doing it wrong or is it the same for all?

Serenegoose
24-11-2011, 11:25 PM
Which makes me wonder: anyone else having problems summoning? Totally random fails at casting. Like there is a 70% chance to successfully summon or something.

I often need to cast in battle and it's frustrating running around looking for the magic spot that works. Plus, sometimes they take up my mana, even if they don't appear. Am i doing it wrong or is it the same for all?

It took me a little while to figure out but see the crosshair that comes up when you have a summon spell out? It'll go red where you can't summon (too small a space, too sloped, whatever) and blue wherever you can. you can still charge up the summon spell but firing it where nothing can happen will uselessly waste your magic! But fortunately if you just make sure the crosshair is blue before you let go you'll be fine.

Alez
25-11-2011, 12:04 AM
I noticed the red, but never blue. It's either white either red. Red means usually i point to the sky or something crazy like that.

I'm using the gamepad, maybe it doesn't have that blue color. I have a white crosshair 90% of the time i summon and everywhere i point, sloped land, flat land, stairs, hills, whatever, it still has a random chance to fail and i can't see a pattern.

DigitalSignalX
25-11-2011, 02:11 AM
The what on what? circle? college?

er.. there's a dungeon under the Mage College. That's all I'm gonna say. Question still stands though...

When I summon, my cross hair is always white and red too - red is no, white is good, usually it just has to be a certain range or closer from the caster.

Shane
25-11-2011, 08:38 AM
Shane: [very minor spoilers] If it's the same prisoner I'm thinking of, yes. There's a quest involving the prisoner; I started it by speaking to a couple in the falkreath graveyard, but if they aren't there you may find them at the mill. [very minor spoilers end]

Ha fucking Ha. Anyway, I seemed to have posted in the wrong thread.

DarkFenix
25-11-2011, 09:49 AM
My first character (now level 55), is primarily an archer. Archery is quite simply brokenly overpowered. Smithing, alchemy and enchanting are all incredibly easy to level up and make your character absurdly powerful. My endgame bow inflicts 365 damage (plus arrow damage of course), plus 150 damage from poison (where applicable), plus 62 damage from enchantment (two enchantments, 31 fire damage, 31 shock), multiplied by 3 for a sneak attack. The only things I don't one-shot are dragons, I've been able to kill anything else in one shot for a great many levels.

I'll have to look into some of those destruction-buffing mods, I tried a destruction-based mage and compared to an archer the damage and sustainability are both beyond underwhelming.

Skalpadda
25-11-2011, 11:00 AM
Archery is quite simply brokenly overpowered.

Yes, yes it is.
http://home.arcor.de/skalpadda/scrn/skyrimbow2.jpg

I'm not even 100 in Archery, nor have I abused alchemy and enchanting quite as far as they can go.. and that's a glass bow, so not the best in the game. Add in poisons and sneak attack damage and I can do well over 3k damage in one hit and critical strikes add even more. I'm not using that bow though because it really makes things boring. Using an unenchanted and unimproved long bow atm which still does ridonculous damage due to the armour enchants I have.

Fiyenyaa
25-11-2011, 11:29 AM
So I wonder if I'm making things very difficult for myself by not using enchantments at all then, or just normal? I certainly die once in every while, but I wouldn't say my character is broken.

Skalpadda
25-11-2011, 11:39 AM
Enchanting, smithing and alchemy only really become overpowered when you get all the relevant perks and use them to improve each other (enchant gear with fortify alchemy, make potions that fortify enchanting, enchant gear that fortifies smithing and alchemy, make enchanting and smithing potions, improve gear and enchant it). There seems to be some caps in place for how much you can do this but you end up with stupidly powerful gear that pretty much breaks the game.

DarkFenix
25-11-2011, 01:31 PM
Wow, yeah I never used recursive improvements to keep stacking up like that. Pretty sure I only have +160% bow damage and +150% smithing/alchemy. Never had any +enchant, didn't have enough alchemy perks to find all those nice effects.

mike2R
25-11-2011, 02:23 PM
I noticed the red, but never blue. It's either white either red. Red means usually i point to the sky or something crazy like that.

I'm using the gamepad, maybe it doesn't have that blue color. I have a white crosshair 90% of the time i summon and everywhere i point, sloped land, flat land, stairs, hills, whatever, it still has a random chance to fail and i can't see a pattern.

Do you have magic absorption from anything? If so its probably a bug. Taken from here (http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Conjuration).


Currently a bug exists which causes Summoning spells to fail. As the spell appears to target yourself, any existing Magic Absorb can cause the Atronach or Dremora not to appear, "refunding" the casting cost for no net loss. This can be easily reproduced with a Breton's Dragonskin, Alteration's Atronach perk, or the Atronach standing stone. Magic Resist does not appear to have this effect.

Kadayi
25-11-2011, 02:43 PM
Reading this thread makes me think I should restart (again) and commit whole hog to a specific build. I've just been wandering around going sword/shield sword/flame as and when doing a bit of smithing as required.

duff
25-11-2011, 02:47 PM
Reading this thread makes me think I should restart (again) and commit whole hog to a specific build. I've just been wandering around going sword/shield sword/flame as and when doing a bit of smithing as required. Yeh me too basically. I have a Breton with skills in one handed / heavy armour / destruction / illusion / conjuration. Though I guess its handy to be able to mix things up when needed.

Kelron
25-11-2011, 02:49 PM
I think TES games always give you the resources you need to survive, although some character builds are obviously easier to play than others. My focus on acquiring all the things means I'm fairly weak in direct combat, but I'm well equipped and have a huge stash of stolen potions and scrolls that can get me through the tougher fights.

You could probably run into serious trouble if you never did any combat at all and levelled solely through non-combat skills, but you'd have to set out specifically to do that.

Kadayi
25-11-2011, 03:03 PM
I'm still haunted by the nightmare of Oblivion's crazy mob leveling system, where in getting very good at alchemy early on meant every fight was practically a boss fight....

Ian
25-11-2011, 03:22 PM
I had plans to commit to a properly focussed character build, but as usual got drawn in by.... well, everything else.

With followers and conjuration and the spiffing Sanguine Rose and my potions and enchanting and scrolls (and lions and tigers and bears) I've not found an unavoidable fight I couldn't find a way through yet one way or another. Not all of 'em first time, but a lot of them.

Bristoff
25-11-2011, 03:25 PM
Does anyone else have problems with renaming items when you enchant them?

Every single time I try, it reverts to the original name when I click craft. I select the item, enchant and soul gem, then click "f" to rename and then there doesn't seem to be any button I can press that doesn't null the name I selected. It's beginning to piss me off tbh.

duff
25-11-2011, 03:30 PM
Ian - same here, but I find using the Sanguine Rose very cheesy. Wouldn't be so bad if you were unable to recharge it.

mike2R
25-11-2011, 03:47 PM
Does anyone else have problems with renaming items when you enchant them?

Every single time I try, it reverts to the original name when I click craft. I select the item, enchant and soul gem, then click "f" to rename and then there doesn't seem to be any button I can press that doesn't null the name I selected. It's beginning to piss me off tbh.

I keep doing this and it annoys me too... You need to press enter after typing the name I think, otherwise it doesn't stick.

Bristoff
25-11-2011, 03:52 PM
I keep doing this and it annoys me too... You need to press enter after typing the name I think, otherwise it doesn't stick.

Enter was the first key I tried, it doesn't work.

Skalpadda
25-11-2011, 03:53 PM
Reading this thread makes me think I should restart (again) and commit whole hog to a specific build. I've just been wandering around going sword/shield sword/flame as and when doing a bit of smithing as required.

As far as I can tell the only thing you gain by specialising heavily in combat skills and crafting is making the game easier. I'd say diversifying and having fun with different stuff is better than specialising the challenge out of the game and I think you'd have to try pretty hard to make it unmanageably difficult.

mike2R
25-11-2011, 04:00 PM
Enter was the first key I tried, it doesn't work.



ok, I'm using a pad so maybe it is different. Pretty sure that for me it goes: choose item, enchant and gem > press Y to rename > type name on keyboard, press return > press X to enchant

DarkFenix
25-11-2011, 04:39 PM
It's just a bug with enchanting, exiting the enchanting station and re-entering it fixes it for me.

Alez
25-11-2011, 06:46 PM
Anyone actually uses the master destruction spells? I simply don't understand why they added them. Can a character reliably use them or just screw around and kill rabbits and crabs?

Lacero
25-11-2011, 07:44 PM
I'm not even 100 in Archery, nor have I abused alchemy and enchanting quite as far as they can go.. and that's a glass bow, so not the best in the game. Add in poisons and sneak attack damage and I can do well over 3k damage in one hit and critical strikes add even more. I'm not using that bow though because it really makes things boring. Using an unenchanted and unimproved long bow atm which still does ridonculous damage due to the armour enchants I have.

Wow. Still, one shot to kill a dragon feels like how it's meant to be done. I'll name my next character Bard.

DigitalSignalX
25-11-2011, 09:52 PM
... I'm not even 100 in Archery, nor have I abused alchemy and enchanting quite as far as they can go ... Using an unenchanted and unimproved long bow atm which still does ridonculous damage due to the armour enchants I have.

Thing is, you did abuse it - no way you could have gotten over 10x the base damage without. Sure you didn't go as "far as they can go" but you went way too far anyway. You broke the game, does it have to have a hard wall for you to run into in order for you to know where to run?

Here's my Bow, with lvl 60 enchanting, 100 smithing, 100 archery, roughly 80% improvement using blacksmith philter potion and NPC dropped ring/amulet of smithing improvement gear only. I have in that screen an equipped 25% archer damage ring. I can still sneak 1 hit most everything except dragons and bosses. But it make for stand up fights to be challenging, and I still die sometimes.

(click for larger)
http://img714.imageshack.us/img714/4892/68180116.jpg (http://img833.imageshack.us/img833/3092/tesv2011112515324460.jpg)

Skalpadda
25-11-2011, 10:17 PM
Thing is, you did abuse it - no way you could have gotten over 10x the base damage without. Sure you didn't go as "far as they can go" but you went way too far anyway. You broke the game, does it have to have a hard wall for you to run into in order for you to know where to run?

Er, where did I say I didn't? All I said was that I didn't push them as far as I could've, implying that even more silly numbers are possible. Also, I haven't broken the game, I bumped up the difficulty to Master and I'm using a long bow (like the first one you get in the game) meaning alchemy and stealth are essential to winning difficult fights. I find that quite fun and unbroken.

DigitalSignalX
26-11-2011, 02:20 AM
Archery is quite simply brokenly overpowered. ...


Yes, yes it is. ...


... Also, I haven't broken the game, I bumped up the difficulty to Master ... I find that quite fun and unbroken.

Thing is, your first post was agreeing that archery is broken, and then showing how you abused the game to make archery broken. My point was, archery *isn't* broken. Your second post shows you've even managed to balance archery despite the abuse o.O

Skalpadda
26-11-2011, 09:37 AM
I'll try to clarify.

Yes I agree that archery is brokenly overpowered, especially when combined with the crafting skills. Even if you don't do any recursive enchanting and potion making but simply use the enchanter's elixirs and fortify alchemy gear you find as you go through the world, make one set of crafting gear and craft yourself an archery set and a bow, you can easily end up with weapons close to the 300 damage range with +50 damage enchants and +100 poisons. Marksman pots can boost that to the double. Add in how easy it is to get sneak attacks with bows and the 30% critical strike chance and you can take over half the health off an Ancient Dragon before it even sees you. You can 1-shot Dragon Priests.

Yes I agree I pushed the game farther than it's sensible to do, but to be clear, I made a set of 4x +22% alchemy gear and used that to make enchanting and blacksmithing pots to improve the gear I can make (which again isn't the best you can learn to craft). I already had +20% alchemy pieces and +25% enchanting pots that I'd looted off mobs and found in dungeons. This isn't something that's difficult or exploity to do but something the game presents and supports very clearly.

When the "fix" is to raise the difficulty to max and use a weapon you got 50 levels ago, that you choose to not add the benefits of 2/3 of your crafting skills on, there's a balance problem.

Bristoff
26-11-2011, 11:05 AM
I'll try to clarify.

Yes I agree that archery is brokenly overpowered, especially when combined with the crafting skills. Even if you don't do any recursive enchanting and potion making but simply use the enchanter's elixirs and fortify alchemy gear you find as you go through the world, make one set of crafting gear and craft yourself an archery set and a bow, you can easily end up with weapons close to the 300 damage range with +50 damage enchants and +100 poisons. Marksman pots can boost that to the double. Add in how easy it is to get sneak attacks with bows and the 30% critical strike chance and you can take over half the health off an Ancient Dragon before it even sees you. You can 1-shot Dragon Priests.

Yes I agree I pushed the game farther than it's sensible to do, but to be clear, I made a set of 4x +22% alchemy gear and used that to make enchanting and blacksmithing pots to improve the gear I can make (which again isn't the best you can learn to craft). I already had +20% alchemy pieces and +25% enchanting pots that I'd looted off mobs and found in dungeons. This isn't something that's difficult or exploity to do but something the game presents and supports very clearly.

When the "fix" is to raise the difficulty to max and use a weapon you got 50 levels ago, that you choose to not add the benefits of 2/3 of your crafting skills on, there's a balance problem.

So you're saying that if you abuse crafting skills to abuse other crafting skills you can break the gameplay in your solo-experience. Well done. The fix is pretty simple to me; don't abuse the crafting skills just because you can.

Skalpadda
26-11-2011, 02:15 PM
I'm not doing that though, I've said that quite clearly and more than once. However, I do think there's a serious game design problem when players have to give themselves severe artificial constraints because they decided to level up crafting professions, especially in an RPG where developing and improving your character is such a big part of the game.

psyk
26-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Morrowind had broken alchemy
Skyrim has broken enchanting

As said an easy fix show some self restraint and don't abuse the mechanics so much.

Bristoff
26-11-2011, 02:37 PM
I'm not doing that though, I've said that quite clearly and more than once. However, I do think there's a serious game design problem when players have to give themselves severe artificial constraints because they decided to level up crafting professions, especially in an RPG where developing and improving your character is such a big part of the game.

It's only a problem if you stack them though. A single ring with a good bow damage is not going to be a problem. Making a full set of +30% (or however much is max) just because you can (and it is "can" because you could easily not put on the +smithing enchants and not use the potions to get to the absolute max) is the definition of ruining the game for yourself.

I have just about maxed smithing and enchanting on my level 45 thief, and smithed and enchanted gear for myself throughout the game, and playing on the 2nd highest difficulty I have plenty of challenging fights.

Talking about balance in a strictly single-player game, where there is literally no reason why you would max your character to gamebreaking levels, is completely pointless. You might as well argue about why godmode cheats exists in Doom, since they obviously break the game when you use them.

Skalpadda
26-11-2011, 03:29 PM
@psyk:
So because Morrowind had a similar problem they somehow cancel out?

@Bristoff:
The idea that it's the player's job to balance game difficulty and the skills system is frankly laughable. Are you really saying you don't see a problem with having to purposefully gimp your character and not use the skills you've spent time training and spent perks on, on the hardest difficulty of the game?

Godmode is a cheat, not an intended way to play the game. It's not like you have to use console commands to craft and enchant silly weapons and potions in Skyrim and as I said above you don't have to go back and forth between them to make special gear, you can just use the materials and equipment the game will give you as you play it and end up with the same net result. I've had tons of fortify alchemy, smithing and enchanting equipment and potions drop while playing.

psyk
26-11-2011, 03:40 PM
Yes. I'm sure more people would like the choice of being able to abuse the mechanics than having them locked at some set lvl.

Bristoff
26-11-2011, 03:42 PM
@Bristoff:
The idea that it's the player's job to balance game difficulty and the skills system is frankly laughable. Are you really saying you don't see a problem with having to purposefully gimp your character and not use the skills you've spent time training and spent perks on, on the hardest difficulty of the game?

Godmode is a cheat, not an intended way to play the game. It's not like you have to use console commands to craft and enchant silly weapons and potions in Skyrim and as I said above you don't have to go back and forth between them to make special gear, you can just use the materials and equipment the game will give you as you play it and end up with the same net result. I've had tons of fortify alchemy, smithing and enchanting equipment and potions drop while playing.

I'm not saying it's the player's job to balance the game. I'm saying that using unintended crafting stacking to create gamebreaking imbalanced items and then bitching about breaking said game is beyond retarded.

It's clearly not intended from the developers side that you should be able to stack stuff so you can one-shot ancient dragons on master difficulty, it's a side-effect of various features of the game that when combined to the point of ridiculousness ruins the game experience. I'm saying, if you didn't do this intentionally yourself (whether to actually one-shot dragons, or to see if you could break the game) you wouldn't be complaining about this problem in the first place.

Personally I think that Bethesda can't be bothered with so-called balancing on this level in their games because it simply doesn't matter, and for the small audience who do get offended when stuff they do to break the game isn't picked up during bughunting or patched in immediately, there's always a billion modders that does it for them.

On a side-note I'm whining about people whining because on all the gaming forums I frequent, in all the Skyrim threads that exists, there inevitably are people bitching about the game being too easy and Bethesda catering to the retard console-audience, when it's clearly just bitter people ruining their own game experience.

Skalpadda
26-11-2011, 04:46 PM
If it's unintended then why are there fortify effects for the crafting skills in the first place? I don't think an entire dev studio with years spent thinking about their game systems couldn't figure out what happens if you level up multiple crafting skills on one character.

If you don't mind then that's fine, but I know I'm not alone in thinking that figuring out ways to improve your character is an important part of playing RPGs. If you suddenly run into a wall where you have to stop using your skills in order not to make the game boring then that's a problem. I want to be rewarded for my efforts and use of game mechanics, not punished.

Lumping me in with the "lol consoletards" crowd because I pointed out an absurdity is insulting and having two pages of people essentially saying I'm stupid for breaking my own game through stacking crafting skills, when I said in the very first post I made on the topic (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?2074-Skyrim-Skills-Discussion&p=61569&viewfull=1#post61569) that I'm not actually using weapons crafted that way, is baffling, so pardon me if I'm being overly defensive here.

Perhaps it's worth mentioning that this hasn't soured my opinions on Skyrim as a whole. It's one of my favourite games this year, certainly the game I've spent the most time with and I'm still enjoying it a lot. I just wish I hadn't wasted perk points on skills I can't use lest I trivialise the game.

Lacero
26-11-2011, 05:11 PM
I'm not saying it's the player's job to balance the game. I'm saying that using unintended crafting stacking to create gamebreaking imbalanced items and then bitching about breaking said game is beyond retarded.


In a sense though it always is. I'm not just being contrarian here, in bullet storm games the player tries hard over and over to learn how to not die. They literally balance themselves to the game.

In Mass Effect etc. I always end up collecting special potions or abilities I forget to use until it becomes hard.

So while it's off topic really, it's interesting that a lot of games actually do require the player action to actively balance them to make them fun. And not just by refusing to use broken parts as in bethesda games.

SirKicksalot
26-11-2011, 06:01 PM
I'm actually looking forward to being overpowered. I plan to max out every skill and it'll be nice to be a god when I finally reach there.
For now, I'm a stealthy archer battlemage alchemist thief. I balanced my Nord character quite nicely - off the top of my head, 35 destruction, 38 one-handed, 29 block, 30something light armour, 42 archery, 42 speech (fortified), 32 alchemy, 50 lockpicking. I make extensive use of potions and poisons. Every other skill I only use occasionally and many are under 20. For my character I feel the difficulty is appropriate - challenging, but not really hard if I pay attention.

I just wish the inventory was easier to use, it's a nightmare to juggle all those potions.

Keep
26-11-2011, 07:00 PM
I want to be rewarded for my efforts and use of game mechanics, not punished.

You are rewarded: in the game you become very powerful.

DigitalSignalX
26-11-2011, 07:26 PM
Apologies skalpadda, my intent wasn't to spark any insulting or inflammatory comments. I inferred, perhaps incorrectly, that you were dissatisfied at being forced to use a hunting bow at higher levels on master difficulty in order to balance archery. What I intended to show was that if you did not use enchanting specifically toward the goal of increasing crafting / further enchanting potential, that using dropped items alone for bonus to enhancement (as we both have done also) provides a decently balanced experience. I offered my own bow as proof, and even still, I one shot most opponents from sneak, but if I get ambushed or vs. dragon priests / arch dragons, it's still quite a fight that I can (and have) died from even on normal difficulty.

I think we both agree the potential to abuse it greatly is there, and should not be - but we differ on how much each of us felt was necessary to experiment with on our own character. c'est la vie.

Drinking with Skeletons
28-11-2011, 05:47 PM
Anyone actually uses the master destruction spells? I simply don't understand why they added them. Can a character reliably use them or just screw around and kill rabbits and crabs?

You can reliably use them, but they tend to be situational.

Firestorm is easily the worst, since it's a single burst of damage centered on your character. It requires enemies to be basically on top of you to get the full effect, which is an extremely dicey situation given the charge time, and then doesn't really do enough damage to justify that charge (there's never a situation where the AoE makes up for being barely better than Incinerate). Maxed out SPOILER:Slow Time is your friend, as it will give you the chance to use it. Still, you're probably better off with spamming Dual-Cast Incinerate. I'm OK with this spell kind of sucking, since Fire is overall the best element in the game on a damage vs. magicka vs. enemy resistance basis.

Blizzard is better, since it's both AoE and DoT. You can use SPOILER Ice Form to incapacitate multiple enemies, then cast the spell. The initial hit will break the Shout's effect, but they will start taking damage from that moment on and will be stuck in a rising animation momentarily. This spell's big problem is that a significant number of enemies are resistant or immune to ice: Nords, Trolls, Ice Wraiths, Dwarven Constructs, Frost Atronachs, and I believe Draugr (Deathlords seem to take almost no damage from the spell). Dragons are also very difficult to deal with, as there aren't any methods that I'm aware of to get them to hold still long enough for the spell to be worth using.

Now Lightningstorm is a great spell. You can easily use a Storm Atronach (or two, if you're a skilled conjurer) to tank and then just hose a room down. If you've invested in Enchanting, you can make this spell ludicrously magicka-efficient. I've found using it to bring down circling dragons to be very effective, even against Elder Dragons, and in fact I sometimes choose not to use it against dragons simply because it feels kind of cheap. Despite the fact that it's a lightning spell, you don't want to use this against magic users without somehow incapacitating them first; even with summoned creatures, mages tend to be very good at blasting you while you charge up.

Hope this helps! I'm personally hoping that they will add in some new Perks in upcoming DLC. A second point in Master Destruction that cuts the charge time by 50% or more would make these spells more worthwhile, but they aren't unsalvageable even now.

Alez
28-11-2011, 07:34 PM
Hope this helps!

Thanks for the long reply, it does help in the sense that i now know you could actually use them. I'll still stick to the boring stun lock of the incinerate though.

2 questions though:
1. What's the point of ice or lightning spells other than...visual variation to break the monotony?
-Ice spells should be used against melee enemies but either barely slow them down or doesn't last long enough to matter. You can stun lock them anyway with dual casting. Not moving at all is much better than moving slower.
-Lightning is supposed to be good against mana users, draining them of it but like with ice, that becomes less important once the enemy is stun locked and can't even cast spells no matter how much mana he might have.

From what i've seen, unless the enemy is fire immune, there is no reason to switch to other spells.

2. What's the difference between fire and lightning astronach?
Other than the obvious immunity to their element, i see no reason why one is better than the other. The storm astronach is considered expert i think, but i don't see why it's not on the same level.
They seem to have the same damage and die just as easily.

I'm using flame astronach because if it lights the enemy on fire, maybe i get extra damage from my own fire attacks. Other than that, to me they are identical in practice.

jryan
28-11-2011, 07:41 PM
I think the Console Command Skill is way over powered... but the game obvious supports it so I can't NOT use it.

DigitalSignalX
28-11-2011, 07:58 PM
I think the Console Command Skill is way over powered... but the game obvious supports it so I can't NOT use it.

I use the disable skill from console all the time to evaporate dead bodies (especially dragons) from common paths. Haven't tried it on actual living things yet, saving it for marriage I think.

jryan
28-11-2011, 08:13 PM
The Console skill gives me unlimited gold and lockpicks at level 1. FIX IT DEVS!

Nalano
28-11-2011, 08:32 PM
The Console skill gives me unlimited gold and lockpicks at level 1. FIX IT DEVS!

Patch 1.12: From level 1, the player will have to fight unlimited enemies nonstop forever.

Skyrim: Serious Sam Edition

Smashbox
28-11-2011, 09:50 PM
Patch 1.12: From level 1, the player will have to fight unlimited enemies nonstop forever.

Skyrim: Serious Sam Edition


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=doBGglOUOiE

Drinking with Skeletons
29-11-2011, 03:02 PM
Thanks for the long reply, it does help in the sense that i now know you could actually use them. I'll still stick to the boring stun lock of the incinerate though.

2 questions though:
1. What's the point of ice or lightning spells other than...visual variation to break the monotony?
-Ice spells should be used against melee enemies but either barely slow them down or doesn't last long enough to matter. You can stun lock them anyway with dual casting. Not moving at all is much better than moving slower.
-Lightning is supposed to be good against mana users, draining them of it but like with ice, that becomes less important once the enemy is stun locked and can't even cast spells no matter how much mana he might have.

From what i've seen, unless the enemy is fire immune, there is no reason to switch to other spells.

2. What's the difference between fire and lightning astronach?
Other than the obvious immunity to their element, i see no reason why one is better than the other. The storm astronach is considered expert i think, but i don't see why it's not on the same level.
They seem to have the same damage and die just as easily.

I'm using flame astronach because if it lights the enemy on fire, maybe i get extra damage from my own fire attacks. Other than that, to me they are identical in practice.

You're right about the Expert level spells; they aren't differentiated enough to make the choice meaningful. The biggest difference is that, if upgraded, Lightning spells can insta-kill enemies based on a percentage of their remaining health rather than the actual damage dealt. The problem is that by the time you can get that perk you'll probably be dealing enough damage with Expert level spells that it won't matter. Having said that, I honestly haven't experimented much with it. I know I can kill a Deathlord with 5 blasts of Dual-Cast Incinerate, but I'm not sure about Lightning Bolt; it may be more efficient to switch over.

I tend to keep Ice Storm hotkeyed because even at higher levels it's AoE and damage are quite good, and can tear through whole groups of enemies, assuming they aren't Ice Resistant.

Storm Atronachs seem to be stronger, or at least I notice them dying less frequently. They also have ranged attacks, whereas the Frost Atronachs seem to be limited to melee (or at least I've never noticed them performing ranged attacks). And, as I've said, Frost is the most-resisted element, making the Storm Atronach more consistent in damage output. I can't say how they perform if you have the enhance-atronach perk, but the Frost Atronach could make a better tank due to it slowing enemies who engage it in melee (I believe that the other Atronachs also have innate elemental cloaks).

And as far as I can tell, the "extra damage" from Fire is just a very mild damage over time effect and not, as it implies, an increase in damage dealt to the target. It means that all of the Fire spells could have been made slightly more powerful and not have affected balance in the slightest.

Drinking with Skeletons
29-11-2011, 03:33 PM
Here's a question regarding the constellations: do they light up in the night sky as you upgrade a skill? I seem to recall hearing that this was the case, but I can't see any difference.

justagigolo
29-11-2011, 04:28 PM
I have been loving going the stealth assassin route. It was a major pain getting started, but now that I have a respectable level of archery and sneak I can go all "Solid Snake" on unsuspecting bandits. Last night as I was raiding a cavern system and stumbled upon a room with three unsuspecting victims. I lined up a stealth shot with my ebony bow, that unfortunately missed, alerting all three bandits of my location. Quickly, I scrambled for cover and switched to my knife. As they gave up the search, I silently sprinted forward and slit the throats of each bandit as they walked back to their posts. All in all, very satisfying.

perafilozof
30-11-2011, 01:35 AM
Played a one hand weapon, shield/destrucion fire magic in the other hand, bow when needed, restoration spells after fights, potions while in a fight, smithed Ebony/Daedric /Dragon armors. Upgraded armor and weapons with Legendary on the workbench and the wheel (bonus of about 70-90% of damage, armor).

At level 40+ invested mostly in One handed weapons, smithing, block, heavy armor, some in alchemy, destruction and restoration magic now at the end going for enchanting in order to make Dragon/Daedric armor with 2 enchantments per armor piece.

Right now I have, with a shield equipped and only half of the perks from heavy armor taken, 680+ armor (combo of Daedric , Dragon, Steal armor) and a Ebony, not enchanted, one had sword, upgraded on the wheel(Legendary) up to 81 damage.

With about 3 diferant sets of shields and boots each with 40-50-60% of resistance to Frost, Fire, Shock lets just say Dragons tremble in my presence, I have even stooped drinking health potions when killing them. 350 Hp on the one before last difficulty setting.

Drinking with Skeletons
30-11-2011, 05:53 PM
Played a one hand weapon, shield/destrucion fire magic in the other hand, bow when needed, restoration spells after fights, potions while in a fight, smithed Ebony/Daedric /Dragon armors. Upgraded armor and weapons with Legendary on the workbench and the wheel (bonus of about 70-90% of damage, armor).

At level 40+ invested mostly in One handed weapons, smithing, block, heavy armor, some in alchemy, destruction and restoration magic now at the end going for enchanting in order to make Dragon/Daedric armor with 2 enchantments per armor piece.

Right now I have, with a shield equipped and only half of the perks from heavy armor taken, 680+ armor (combo of Daedric , Dragon, Steal armor) and a Ebony, not enchanted, one had sword, upgraded on the wheel(Legendary) up to 81 damage.

With about 3 diferant sets of shields and boots each with 40-50-60% of resistance to Frost, Fire, Shock lets just say Dragons tremble in my presence, I have even stooped drinking health potions when killing them. 350 Hp on the one before last difficulty setting.

Your post is a good reminder of why the crafting isn't really broken: it's incredibly powerful, but if you play like a sane human being you won't max out until pretty late, at which point you're officially allowed to make yourself into a demigod, per hallowed RPG tradition.

I've actually been hoping for a Nights of the Nine type faction via DLC (the Vigilant of Stendarr seem an obvious hook) as I want to try playing an Imperial Paladin: One Handed, Block, Heavy Armor, Restoration, and maybe Speech. I want to see how the game holds up if you specifically avoid crafting and rely upon purchasing and finding your equipment. There's certainly a better selection to be had from dungeons, and at low-to-mid enchantment levels I regularly find better stuff (and oh, the agony of trying to decide if destroying that awesome item to get the enchantment and XP is the best decision). EDIT: Shops also have a better inventory, and if you've got the cash you can buy some really nice stuff. Radiant Raiment in particular seems to stock some gobsmacking jewelry for your level.

Anyone have thoughts on this?

justagigolo
30-11-2011, 06:06 PM
I am a long ways off from the end game stage, but right now my character is level 27 playing largely under the scenario you described. Only recently have I started smithing items, and it will be a while before I can craft much that is useful yet. Furthermore, my enchantments are weak enough to be depressing. So far the choice of disenchanting items is easy enough for my player since I only seem to find heavy armor, which doesn't fit my thief build. The game is sufficiently challenging on the second highest difficulty, and there have been several dungeons that I have set aside for a better day. Relying on the discovered items adds a lot of excitement to the game, there is no logical reason for me to be so excited to find my prized dwarf knife, and ebony bow.

Anthile
30-11-2011, 08:33 PM
Played a one hand weapon, shield/destrucion fire magic in the other hand, bow when needed, restoration spells after fights, potions while in a fight, smithed Ebony/Daedric /Dragon armors. Upgraded armor and weapons with Legendary on the workbench and the wheel (bonus of about 70-90% of damage, armor).

At level 40+ invested mostly in One handed weapons, smithing, block, heavy armor, some in alchemy, destruction and restoration magic now at the end going for enchanting in order to make Dragon/Daedric armor with 2 enchantments per armor piece.

Right now I have, with a shield equipped and only half of the perks from heavy armor taken, 680+ armor (combo of Daedric , Dragon, Steal armor) and a Ebony, not enchanted, one had sword, upgraded on the wheel(Legendary) up to 81 damage.

With about 3 diferant sets of shields and boots each with 40-50-60% of resistance to Frost, Fire, Shock lets just say Dragons tremble in my presence, I have even stooped drinking health potions when killing them. 350 Hp on the one before last difficulty setting.

I hate to disappoint you, but resistances cap at 80%, including physical resistance and an armor rating of about 360 is enough for that.

perafilozof
01-12-2011, 10:25 AM
LoL, no I get WAY more damage when I was at 350+ armor then now at 700+. Now I get shot by 3 archers at the same time, and I go from 370 HP to 350HP after 5 or so arrows from each enemy. (Those where Thalmor archers from the quest to free one of the Nords that was in their prison )

Well when your at 370 HP and have the resistance at 80%, you prity much cant even notice that your being damaged by that type of magic attack.

I did kinda got my smiting up to 100 at level 30 or so, but found the first ebony armor when I got up to 38 or so, and the first EVER Daedric weapon at level 42, while first part of the Dragon armor (Which is kinda strange that you can find Dragon armor in the game, I was under the impression that you could only make it since Dragons haven't been around since 1000 years ago) at level 47.

The thing is that now I am a Demigod, BUT when I get attacked by Shock magic from high level enemy they can kill me in 3-4 strikes even with my 370HP. Armor with resistance to magic or at least potions with resistance are a Must.

The problem is right now I am playing the game as I have each Bethesda game after Morrowind, with the weight set to 9000, so I can have all the items I want or need with me at all times, but I am going to play the game again without it and I have a feeling that its going to get MUCH harder when I become a mage/archer/sneak attacker that can carry only 300-400 weight.