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DaftPunk
20-11-2011, 11:17 PM
What do you think future holds up for us stealth fans,with years passing by we are getting less stealth games and those series which are stealth are going other route,ala action one. Why are devs so afraid to make something like Thief 2 or Chaos Theory again.


Also tell me,are there any upcoming stealth games,beside Thief 4 and Splinter Cell 6 ?

Heliocentric
20-11-2011, 11:29 PM
Hitman: subtitle, er...

DaftPunk
20-11-2011, 11:32 PM
Forgot about that one,it looks quite interesting,its clearly they're aiming toward more cinematic experience but i'm afraid the game will suffer because of that in simplicity,something like latest Splinter Cell:Conviction.


Other then that its sad if those three are only upcoming stealth games :/


Ps. Can't count MGS:Risen,because judging by trailers,it looks like hack and slash game. Also i read somewhere few days ago that Kojima confirmed that MGS5 will be made,not sure if we will get game as well on pc.

LaunchJC
20-11-2011, 11:58 PM
Wasn't there a new Thief in development at some point? :S Or did I dream that?

Wizardry
21-11-2011, 12:00 AM
Wasn't there a new Thief in development at some point? :S Or did I dream that?
There is. Thiaf.

Amakir
21-11-2011, 12:01 AM
There is. Thiaf.
Donīt you mean Thifourf?

airtekh
21-11-2011, 12:10 AM
I'm looking forward to Monaco (http://www.pocketwatchgames.com/Monaco/), but it's mainly a coop game in which you pull of a heist.

The devs had previously said that only one of the player classes in the game has the ability to knock out guards, and nobody else has a weapon, so stealth seems the best way to go.

Peter
21-11-2011, 12:17 AM
The stealth genre is probably my favourite genre and it's been very depressing to watch stealth games get turned into action games, as was the case with Conviction, and seems to be going on with the new Hitman (the 15 minute demo video, along with stuff the devs have said, have made this game one of my biggest gaming disappointments ever; we'll see if I'm proven wrong, though I doubt it).

The Death to Spies games are the most recent truly great stealth games made, though they're not really that new either, having been released in 2007 and 2009.

Hopefully Thiaf turns out to be decent, since it's being made by the Human Revolution folk. But at the moment that really seems to be the only thing worth looking forward to.

DaftPunk
21-11-2011, 02:01 AM
That sure looks interesting. Will keep an eye on it.


Peter@ I played first Death To Spies game and it was good,but it take to much time to complete one mission (it took me about 2-3 hours ) and i came to hotel mission. Good game but it was kinda trial and error,i prefer games with more possible path for completing certain objects. Something like Thief 2 or Chaos Theory.

Shane
21-11-2011, 02:35 AM
There's also Dishonored coming up next year.

Heliocentric
21-11-2011, 02:37 AM
it's been very depressing to watch stealth games get turned into action games, as was the case with Conviction
Conviction is actually a great stealth game as long as you ignore the main story mode.

Deniable ops' infiltration mode is legitimacy an excellent challenge.
And remember coop is an option too.

SephKing
21-11-2011, 02:39 AM
There's a new Death to spies in development called Ghost of Moscow

http://www.1cpublishing.eu/data/games/2672/5765_Ghost_of_Moscow_%287%29.jpg


Hitman Absolution (which I think's going to be a huge letdown

http://www.gamepur.com/files/imagepicker/6/hitman_absolution_pic.jpg


and there is also Dishonored coming in 2012 which is supposed to be "first-person, with an emphasis is placed on stealth and the utilization of gadgets as well as the environment to eliminate opposing forces". Some of the people working on it worked on the original Deus Ex and Dark Messiah.

http://zoknowsgaming.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/dishonored-aug-6.jpg

http://attackofthefanboy.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/regent-dishonored.jpg

TailSwallower
21-11-2011, 03:33 AM
There's also Dishonored coming up next year.

I'm going to civil union that game. Though I wouldn't be surprised to see it get delayed just because it's so goddamn ambitious.

Also, it's not really stealth, per se, but stealth should definitely be a viable playstyle.

ekginaSpieagel
21-11-2011, 08:00 AM
Forgot about that one
http://www.powerpointcompression.com/ht.jpghttp://www.aasseenontv.com/jh3.jpg
http://www.powerpointcompression.com/am.jpg

Shane
21-11-2011, 09:00 AM
Death to Spies is Red Orchestra of stealth games.

DaftPunk
21-11-2011, 11:28 AM
Stealth and Conviction in same sentence... Ubisoft, for reasons I still can't figure out, decided to bring Maxime Beland on as the Creative Director for Conviction. His goal was to fix the series. He failed.

He said flat out in interviews that stealth is boring. Sneaking around is no fun. For whatever reason he assumed that the whole time people have been playing SC that they were really wanting to play a 24 or Bourne game. So, that's the game he made.

It plays nothing like old SC games. This game is a shooter. It's not about sneaking around, it's about blowing **** up. The stealth is extremely shallow, and just feels tacked on to make the shooting a bit more interesting. It even rewards you for being detected most of the time, since the last known position feature makes the bad guys run mindlessly towards it while you walk right past them or take them out one by one.

Mark and Execute makes the game unbelievably easy. You barely have to aim (auto-aim is way too compensating, and you can't disable it). Just push a button on them to target them, and push another button and they're all dead.

This game feels like it's catering to 13 year olds with ADD. There's almost no thinking required. It's just explosions, gunfights, and hand to hand combat for 5 hours (yes, it's that short). If it slowed down gameplay in previous games, it's not in Conviction. And considering the old SC games were about slow, deliberate movements, that's almost everything.

Even if I put aside the fact that it's supposed to be a Splinter Cell game, it's still mediocre at best. It's very unoriginal and poorly executed.


Ps. I assume Coop can't be so different then main game and its gameplay elements ?

Heliocentric
21-11-2011, 12:46 PM
It's just explosions, gunfights, and hand to hand combat for 5 hours
Like I said, the campaign is the worst part of the game.

Mark and execute, last known position, sonic goggles, auto aim, explosions have no baring on ghosting the game in infiltration mode unless you deem to use them yourself.
You could go through chaos theory shooting everyone too, that wasn't really the idea, that doesn't make chaos theory a bad game. Yes the hand to hand take downs are flagged as "kills", but functionally its the same as knock outs... Oh, you cant move bodies, but you can take hostages and knock them out in a shady spot.

If a guard radios them in, they lose, if anything explodes they lose, if they trip a laser(only really highly visible in sonic vision) or a camera, they lose.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIz0I-pJifE

DaftPunk
21-11-2011, 01:22 PM
Well thats true,but still Chaos Theory gave you ALLOT of variety in stealth aproach,unlike Convictions "sneak, kill, shoot, outflank, repeat".. The mission objectives are simple: kill everyone on that level. It felt more like playing "Rainbow Six Vegas". Which is fun at first but the combat quickly becomes repetitive and too frantic enough to savor. The beginning Malta mission is great and showed great promise. It's fun to see Sam as such a bad-*** out for revenge. However, by the second mission the action becomes monotonous, the storyline is stale and there are no surprises. Other people have said that the single-player story is too short. That's not really true, it just feels short because there is no real substance to the game. The plot, including his daughter's "death", just doesn't make sense.

Also the other negative which kills this game is that the villians and their conspiracy are so weak. Black Arrow is just another evil private military corporation which makes for a very dull adversary and has already been done in Chaos Theory. Director Reed and Megiddo are a lazy plot device. If the conspiracy is as powerful as they say they are, they could easily execute a silent coup instead of using the EMP's. There are so many interesting possibilities with past adversaries who still want Sam dead, like Russia's SOBR, Israel's Shin Bet or Japan's ISDF. Remember killing Russian Spetsnaz (SC1), Talia Dal (SC2) and those Japanese commandos (SC3)? It's a wasted opportunity not to bring back any of his past enemies for another crack at Sam and Third Echelon.




http://worldflashgames.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/splinter-cell1.jpg

airtekh
21-11-2011, 01:30 PM
I'm with Helio on this one.

I had lots of fun with Conviction, and I played it quite stealthily. If you play Conviction as a straight shooter, you will get gunned down - stealth is a crucial element in the game.

The main story may be only a few hours long, but there's loads of replayablility in the Deniable Ops mode and there's co-op on top of that.

DaftPunk
21-11-2011, 01:38 PM
But Conviction force you to take down the enemies and for me the whole purpose of stealth game is to avoid front confrontation with enemies. Satisfaction comes when you pass through a room without being spotted, when you simply pass through. Full satisfaction is gained when you though of a right plan that perfectly worked. It is a reward for your mind, somehow similar to a puzzle game: you discovered one right answer to solve the problem.

airtekh
21-11-2011, 01:57 PM
And there's the difference.

I get as much satisfaction from taking out a room full of guards silently in Conviction as I do ghosting an entire level in Thief.

I like having multiple solutions to the puzzle, one of them being a silenced pistol. :)

Peter
21-11-2011, 02:50 PM
Peter@ I played first Death To Spies game and it was good,but it take to much time to complete one mission (it took me about 2-3 hours ) and i came to hotel mission. Good game but it was kinda trial and error,i prefer games with more possible path for completing certain objects. Something like Thief 2 or Chaos Theory.

Meh, Hitman games are trial and error as well. I don't really have a problem with that. And the length of the missions doesn't bother me as well.

Heliocentric
21-11-2011, 02:51 PM
*BLAH BLAH BLAH SPLINTER CELL VERSION OF NO MUTANTS ALLOWED RANT*
Hi, I said try and judge the game without considering the single player, are you listening? Did you even watch that video? Its like ballet with snapped necks.

DaftPunk
21-11-2011, 03:11 PM
I watched the video and also commented afterwards,saying this


Conviction force you to take down the enemies and for me the whole purpose of stealth game is to avoid front confrontation with enemies. Satisfaction comes when you pass through a room without being spotted, when you simply pass through. Full satisfaction is gained when you though of a right plan that perfectly worked. It is a reward for your mind, somehow similar to a puzzle game: you discovered one right answer to solve the problem.

Heliocentric
21-11-2011, 03:18 PM
So the option to kill no-one (ish, splinter cell and chaos theory both had mandatory kills obviously) or the stealth game sucks? kk, understood.

bbe724
21-11-2011, 06:35 PM
spy party anyone ?

Shane
21-11-2011, 07:05 PM
Spy Party is more of a game about deduction and psychology than it is about stealth.

Also, I am very much enjoying stealth in Skyrim. Up until now I have only completed the first dungeon you come across and had to do quite a bit of hacking and slashing but blowing out torches and shooting arrows while staying hidden was awesome.

DaftPunk
21-11-2011, 10:09 PM
I enjoyed playing more stealthy in Dark Messiah Of Might and Magic,allot of fun with bow indeed.

Heliocentric
21-11-2011, 10:11 PM
I enjoyed playing more stealthy in Dark Messiah Of Might and Magic,allot of fun with bow indeed.

One hit killing the last boss with a stab to the heart through the collar bone was sweet.... okay so he turned into a dragon after dying, but being able to skip that first bit was epic.

Memph
22-11-2011, 05:36 AM
With any luck the Metro sequel will get the stealth right this time. I did enjoy stealthing ranger mode. Albeit iron-clad bastard hard to pull off with the sometimes finicky AI, it was possible to get through most manshoot sections without even killing anyone. I found the volt driver to be a beast for silent takedowns though. Who can resist launching a harpoon from the shadows into a nazi's neck when his mates aren't looking? Also looking out for glass and traps was a nice touch, but unfortunate that tripping a trap or stepping on glass tended to not bring one spooked soldier sniffing around, but sound a basewide alarm causing everyone to instantly know your exact position. Lots of reloading ensues and you pray to various gods that the autosaving doesn't fuck you over.
We'll probably be stuck with sections again though where all stealth options go out the window and we're forced to gun down a hundred charging mutants. I hope not. Although I did rather like the librarian mechanics, turning stealth on it's head to get past without killing them.

agentorange
22-11-2011, 06:13 AM
We'll probably be stuck with sections again though where all stealth options go out the window and we're forced to gun down a hundred charging mutants. I hope not. Although I did rather like the librarian mechanics, turning stealth on it's head to get past without killing them.

This is actually something I respected about the Metro 2033 stealth; unlike in just about every other game with stealth, guards wouldn't simply say "huh?!" then turn around and completely forget about the disturbance. Yeah it was sometimes taken to the extreme with everyone suddenly being on alert, but really that is more realistic given the setting. I enjoyed using stealth as a means to get into an advantageous position, and from there go on the offensive.

DaftPunk
22-11-2011, 12:29 PM
Speaking of FPS stealth games,how was stealth in new Deus Ex game ?

Maurish
22-11-2011, 01:09 PM
Speaking of FPS stealth games,how was stealth in new Deus Ex game ? I thought it was fine until you reached your first boss encounter and realized that you've invested in stealth/hacking upgrades and used mainly non-lethal weapons. Boss encounters can't be done without violence, you have to gun them down somehow and depending on the difficulty setting, it can be tricky although you'll find weapons and ammo lying around which you can use.

airtekh
22-11-2011, 01:28 PM
@DaftPunk

Like Maurish says, it works very well. You can specifically tailor your aug setup to be purely stealthy if you want to. There are lots of places to hide from enemies and vent shafts provide alternate routes around congested areas.

Make sure you're carrying some firepower for the boss encounters though. I wasn't carrying any lethal weapons when I encountered the first boss, and I had to stun him to 'death' with my taser.

DaftPunk
23-11-2011, 11:10 AM
^^Sounds good.



Found two upcoming stealth games,both look interesting.


Stealth Bastard: Tactical Espionage Arsehole

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/nov/sb2.jpg


It has a core philosophy, and that philosophy is “why does stealth need to be so slow?” Turns out, it doesn’t.

Bits of Portal, bits of Super Meat Boy, bits of Splinter Cell, yet a tone and character entirely of its own, and with none of all that tedious waiting around business.



And something more serious,Project Stealth.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/july/stealth.jpg



So what is it? Well, do you remember Splinter Cell’s asymmetric multiplayer? It was quite good. It pitched sneaky espionage types against heavily armed guards, making for an interesting tactical experience. And it does rather spring to mind when you read the description of Project Stealth, which is – or will be – a free, standalone UDK-powered multiplayer game:

“There are two teams with two players each: one team is characterized by heavily armored and relatively slow elite Mercenaries with powerful guns. The other team consists of high-tech, agile, atlethic and fast Spies with non-lethal weapons. The Mercs have mines, grenades, camnets, gasmask etc. and three vision modes (normal, EMF, movement detector). The Spies have got flashbangs, smoke grenades, heartbeat sensor, camo suit, noise emitters etc. and their own three vision modes (normal, nightvision, thermal vision). Mercs have a first person view and will play like a regular shooter with gadgets, while spies will have a third person view and will play more like a third-person action game.”

Memph
23-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Blimey, Stealth Bastard is free? And scanlines! Cheers for the reminder it exists
/downloads

Rii
23-11-2011, 12:02 PM
So the option to kill no-one (ish, splinter cell and chaos theory both had mandatory kills obviously) or the stealth game sucks? kk, understood.

Seems a good rule of thumb to me.

DaftPunk
23-11-2011, 01:02 PM
Yes,Stealth Bastard is entirely FREE.


http://www.stealthbastard.com/

DaftPunk
23-11-2011, 01:45 PM
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/images/11/oct/warp2.jpg




Warp, as EA’s emotionless robo-voice explains, is: “a puzzle-based stealth action game where gamers play as Zero, a loveable yet lethal, little orange alien with a big score to settle.” Zero has been abducted by nefarious humans, and must escape. So you can kill everyone, or take a non-lethal approach – it’s the cute Deus Ex! Sort of.



Trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dNroYXqPmEM

Memph
23-11-2011, 02:58 PM
Yes,Stealth Bastard is entirely FREE.

And now i've played a few levels, I can attest to to it being rather damn good indeed. And hard. But it doesn't irritate me like SMB did, in fact I think this the better game by far for gameplay. 360 pad worked right off the bat to boot. Also, (although way off topic) this has me quite interested in Explodemon.

TailSwallower
24-11-2011, 02:27 AM
Also, (although way off topic) this has me quite interested in Explodemon.

I've read a few people around these parts saying that they should be selling Stealth Bastard and giving Explodemon away for free because SB is the better game. But, if you like SB enough to want to support the developer then even if you don't dig Explodemon as much you still got 2 games for the price of 1.

DaftPunk
24-11-2011, 03:28 PM
Never heard of Explodemon,could you describe it ?

Heliocentric
24-11-2011, 03:45 PM
Never heard of Explodemon,could you describe it ?

Stealth Bastard guys made it, its like a puzzle point scoring multiplier game (like burn zombie burn or geometry wars), but a progressive platformer too (like turrican or contra or something).

No stealth at all.

edit: when you shut down stealth bastard explodo is advertised btw.

DaftPunk
24-11-2011, 08:14 PM
Aha,i noticed it now. What are your opinions on MGS2,just got it to work for the first time on my pc so will give it a try. I'm afraid story/characters and dialogs are going to be cheesy as in MGS 1 (The only one MGS i completed) xD

sabrage
24-11-2011, 08:22 PM
MGS2's story is far more overblown/cheesy than the original.

But then, that's why I love it.

DaftPunk
24-11-2011, 09:09 PM
Ah don't care that much for a story honestly,tell me more about the gameplay :x

sabrage
24-11-2011, 10:30 PM
It's a brilliant gem that hasn't aged a day, in terms of gameplay. Stealth goodness and ridiculous boss fights throughout. If you're going in expecting to play the whole game as badass stealth master Solid Snake, however, you're in for a rude surprise.

DaftPunk
24-11-2011, 11:28 PM
It's a brilliant gem that hasn't aged a day, in terms of gameplay. Stealth goodness and ridiculous boss fights throughout. If you're going in expecting to play the whole game as badass stealth master Solid Snake, however, you're in for a rude surprise.



Nah i've already played first MGS so i can imagine what to expect,only now i can't play MGS2 properly because of this..already tried fixed exe files,also applied 2.0 patch ...




http://shrani.si/f/1A/ST/4ereTSJv/untit2121led.jpg





Edit. Fixed the problem by putting shadow and model settings to medium. Still can't find myself around controls in the game,pretty fucked up port lol