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R-F
20-11-2011, 11:48 PM
So, uhh...

Why is Minecraft supposedly in a state fit for release after that terribad and anaemic "adventure expansion"?

Is anyone else suspicious that Notch is just trying to find an excuse to release the cape / "premium map" DLC he's been talking about for months?

DarioSamo
20-11-2011, 11:52 PM
Or just being able to charge $20 instead of $15. :P

Mistabashi
20-11-2011, 11:52 PM
What "cape / premium map" DLC is this that he's apparently been talking about for months?

R-F
20-11-2011, 11:56 PM
What "cape / premium map" DLC is this that he's apparently been talking about for months?

I'd find it but I'm lazy. It was in one of his blog posts about Steam, and in a few interviews too.

Just him saying he'd like to sell capes or hand made maps, basically.

Taidan
21-11-2011, 12:28 AM
Defending Minecraft:

Basically, the most recent patch added a bunch more nice stuff, a lot of which being stuff that Notch has saying for a while needed to be in the game before it was considered "A Full Game". (An "Endgame" with a "Boss", for example, as well as a few other bits.) Also, it seems to be pretty stable.

Given "The Plan", they were always going to have to "Release" Minecraft one day, (And put that price up) and the completion of the most recent pair of patches (1.8 and 1.9/1.0.0 being two halves of what was supposed to be a single, final beta patch) seem as good a place as any to do it.

In my humble opinion, I think it's a very fine game as it stands right now.

metalangel
21-11-2011, 12:33 AM
IMHO Minecraft hasn't had a 'full' release until Bukkit is update to handle all the new features.

Matzerath
21-11-2011, 02:09 AM
There's an 'Endgame' now?! I had no idea!

R-F
21-11-2011, 08:40 AM
Basically, the most recent patch added a bunch more nice stuff, a lot of which being stuff that Notch has saying for a while needed to be in the game before it was considered "A Full Game". (An "Endgame" with a "Boss", for example, as well as a few other bits.) Also, it seems to be pretty stable.

The most recent patch is pathetic, to be perfectly frank. All it did was add about three enemies, a few more black types and a crappy dragon-boss thing.

I'd go so far as to say that the most recent patch made the game feel MORE incomplete through the sheer lack of real addition. It's been the same from the past few patches (which were, I think, done completely by Notch's second in command, Notch has actually done very little lately), but I wasn't expecting for it to end up "complete".


Given "The Plan", they were always going to have to "Release" Minecraft one day, (And put that price up) and the completion of the most recent pair of patches (1.8 and 1.9/1.0.0 being two halves of what was supposed to be a single, final beta patch) seem as good a place as any to do it.

In my humble opinion, I think it's a very fine game as it stands right now.

Not to me. The game is not complete. If this was released as a full game right now with no promise of non-paid patches in the future, people would demand a refund. The "adventure mode" isn't fleshed out, the building is half-fleshed out and everything else is pretty much missing.

EDIT: Compare this with the vampires that're coming into Dwarf Fortress next patch. Toady has worked quite a great deal on them, but admits that adventure-mode side stuff "is a bit lacking" due to the fact that it's currrently not possible to handle the concept of a vampire leading a nation - or at least not the concept of them handling it then being called out by an adventurer. Toady hasn't, however, claimed that his game is suddenly complete through this addition of a minor side feature.

Nevermind the fact that patch is adding REAL undead (as in, necromancers, undead armies, if you lop off a hand it will come scurrying back to you and try to strangle you to death etc), massive sewer systems to computer generated towns, complex city plans... And don't forget more complex poisons, curses, improved invasions and 40~ animals requested by people with NEW TAGS (imagine new animal behaviours in Minecraft) added.

THAT'S a real patch.

soldant
21-11-2011, 08:50 AM
I think the problem is that everyone saw Minecraft as an investment; you paid for the game during development with the understanding that it'd get better and see new features. Early on in the project the risk was that the game would go bust and you'd get a half-finished buggy mess, but after Minecraft achieved critical mass it was obvious that there was pretty much no risk at all and you'd get a good, playable game. Now it's finished, and people aren't happy with the recent updates, and the "finished" title implies (for most) that this is it and you're not going to get anything else unless it's through DLC.

The problem is that Minecraft never really ended up including any real progression, which is something I was hoping it'd learn from Terraria. Even with stone equipment I can take down Endermen and Creepers and after the first night nothing is a threat unless I'm not paying attention. So your only real goals are: Go to Nether, go to The End. And then... build? Which would be fine because Minecraft excels as a building and exploration game, but I think everyone was expecting the Survival Mode to be expanded a lot more to keep it challenging. As it stands, spending about 10 minutes after learning the basics is enough to handle pretty much anything except The End. And after The End nothing important happens, so who cares?

Terraria had more boss characters and pre-requisite equipment progression for resource gathering, which kept pushing you towards the goal, which could last quite a while. Minecraft completely lacks this. The End just seems tacked on, like something they threw in simply to say "Minecraft has a final goal for players so now it's obviously finished." Ultimately nothing in the final patch radically changed Survival gameplay, which is probably what people were expecting.

Kaira-
21-11-2011, 10:40 AM
Haven't really tried MC after the 1.8.x-patches, since I couldn't be arsed to fix "Minecraft has run out of memory"-problem which came with the patches, so I can't really comment about the state of the game as it is. However, what's the state of modding API? Has it been released already?

Taidan
21-11-2011, 11:07 AM
Well, each to their own, I guess.

I too would love to see more and more directed content thrown into the game, and I would love for the Mojang team to get off their collective arses and start adding weekly updates to the game again, but as it stands the core of the game is still more about the "Toybox" side than the "Game" side and thus is not going to appeal to everybody.

R-F
21-11-2011, 11:33 AM
Haven't really tried MC after the 1.8.x-patches, since I couldn't be arsed to fix "Minecraft has run out of memory"-problem which came with the patches, so I can't really comment about the state of the game as it is. However, what's the state of modding API? Has it been released already?

Hahahahah.
Hahahahahahahahah.
Hahahahahahahahahahahah.

Oh, that was a GOOD ONE.

Wait, you mean you're serious? You don't know?

Notch said, "Screw modding API, that's too much work for a man who eats as much steak for breakfast as me! I'll just release the source code to certain trustworthy modders because that'll never have issues." or something along those lines.


Well, each to their own, I guess.

I too would love to see more and more directed content thrown into the game, and I would love for the Mojang team to get off their collective arses and start adding weekly updates to the game again, but as it stands the core of the game is still more about the "Toybox" side than the "Game" side and thus is not going to appeal to everybody.

Uhh, what.

soldant
21-11-2011, 11:47 AM
Haven't really tried MC after the 1.8.x-patches, since I couldn't be arsed to fix "Minecraft has run out of memory"-problem which came with the patches, so I can't really comment about the state of the game as it is. However, what's the state of modding API? Has it been released already?

The out of memory errors are fixed by installing Java 7. I didn't know this until someone specifically pointed it out to me. Fun fact: they're on the Oracle website, the Java website has a little link in the sidebar or something pointing you to Java 7's beta page on Oracle's website.

Kaira-
21-11-2011, 11:53 AM
Hahahahah.
Hahahahahahahahah.
Hahahahahahahahahahahah.

Oh, that was a GOOD ONE.

Wait, you mean you're serious? You don't know?

Notch said, "Screw modding API, that's too much work for a man who eats as much steak for breakfast as me! I'll just release the source code to certain trustworthy modders because that'll never have issues." or something along those lines.


Yeah, I remembered that much that he'd throw the source code to modders. Badly worded from my part though. Um, so, I guess this means that there are no other ways to get access to source code now other than decompiling, or is there somewhere where one can sign up as modder? Would be curious to see what one could do in a small time-frame.

R-F
21-11-2011, 11:54 AM
Yeah, I remembered that much that he'd throw the source code to modders. Badly worded from my part though. Um, so, I guess this means that there are no other ways to get access to source code now other than decompiling, or is there somewhere where one can sign up as modder? Would be curious to see what one could do in a small time-frame.

I don't think he's even done that yet, to be honest.

t0mme
21-11-2011, 07:26 PM
I'm disappointed with the half-arsed approach Notch took. Release 1.7.3 was great. As a framework for the modders. Minecraft was a nice vanillia blank slate, where you could play in and the mods would give you everything you'd want (guns, airships, the technic pack, 'better than wolves') It really is the modding community who made Minecraft shine and that community could have taken Minecraft to the next level(s) if they had a proper SDK or something to work with.

Instead, Notch injected a less then mediocre 'game' into Minecraft. No story, no content, no goals (well, an Ender Dragon, and I found the tech-demo dragon that flew around in the normal world to be more impressive). I wonder if Notch ever played vanilla Minecraft...

Really Notch, release a SDK, less work for you as you don't have to create subpar content anymore. Actually, revealing the SDK at Minecon would have made that event interesting at all. Minecon seems to me as a mere egoboost for Notch...

Rii
21-11-2011, 07:30 PM
Minecraft was released the day they started charging money for it. This practice of media outlets waiting to review the game until The Man sez it's ok is vomit-inducing obsequiousness.

Juan Carlo
21-11-2011, 07:35 PM
Nevermind the fact that patch is adding REAL undead (as in, necromancers, undead armies, if you lop off a hand it will come scurrying back to you and try to strangle you to death etc), massive sewer systems to computer generated towns, complex city plans... And don't forget more complex poisons, curses, improved invasions and 40~ animals requested by people with NEW TAGS (imagine new animal behaviours in Minecraft) added.


Unrelated, but I completely don't understand why that Dwarf Fortress dude hasn't been awarded a MacArthur Genius grant yet. The whole purpose of the award is to support/shine a light on people toiling away at brilliant bits of cultural esoterica which otherwise might not be supported. Dwarf Fortress seems perfect for that.

I've never actually played Minecraft, though. I guess I'm the only one left.

pakoito
21-11-2011, 07:57 PM
The problem is the java 3D engine doesn't allow for much to be added without a toll of computer, time and more than a 3-4 man team.

Look at Terraria's next patch. It's the first real content (non fix) patch since release in May (Pre Minecraft's Adventure Patch):
There are 39 new monsters, including 4 brand new bosses. We've got three new NPCs, all waiting to be rescued. And for the loot obsessed, there are 222 new items, including 4 sets of armor, and 21 accessories.


Also Notch stated in his blog that he blamed only himself for the state of modding and API, but "but when it comes to the new launcher, it got folded into a new exciting project I won’t talk about yet.". So it's not going to be any modding API for a while.

sabrage
21-11-2011, 08:12 PM
I can't believe the sense of entitlement R-F is effusing here. It's not like Minecraft is in an incomplete state; it's a finely polished game that has received more content since its inception two years ago than almost any other game. The design principle that drives Dwarf Fortress (content and complexity over all else) renders it an exceedingly poor point of comparison to other games. Dwarf Fortress is legendary for it. Regardless of what Notch has "promised," as if any development update has ever been an indication of what you'll actually get, Minecraft is a limitless and massive game and everything to come is just icing on the cake.

If I ever had customers that behaved the way you do, I wonder why I'd bother at all. You're acting like a child that didn't get all the toys he wanted at the store.

Cooper
21-11-2011, 08:25 PM
Forget Minecraft.

When the fuck is Tetris going to be finished?

Matzerath
21-11-2011, 08:54 PM
Final releases are like orgasms - some are OK, others are earth-shattering, but they could always be BETTER.

Shark
21-11-2011, 09:01 PM
Forget Minecraft.

When the fuck is Tetris going to be finished?
Fuck you.
Tetris is fine as it is, I hate you and your kind, demanding more just for the sake of more.
Huh? What do you want, a ten long line piece to get instant points? Not gonna happen, coz Alexei Paschitnow has a clear design plan, every block is made of four blocks, just perfect.
I don't expect you to understand this.

R-F
21-11-2011, 10:50 PM
I can't believe the sense of entitlement R-F is effusing here. It's not like Minecraft is in an incomplete state; it's a finely polished game that has received more content since its inception two years ago than almost any other game. The design principle that drives Dwarf Fortress (content and complexity over all else) renders it an exceedingly poor point of comparison to other games. Dwarf Fortress is legendary for it. Regardless of what Notch has "promised," as if any development update has ever been an indication of what you'll actually get, Minecraft is a limitless and massive game and everything to come is just icing on the cake.

If I ever had customers that behaved the way you do, I wonder why I'd bother at all. You're acting like a child that didn't get all the toys he wanted at the store.

Yes, because how dare I expect what I was promised when I purchased the game! *shakes his fist at the sky* I should just bend over and take it like a good boy because it's not like I invested my money in the game.

Also, I think we should have a law that whenever someone uses the phrase "sense of entitlement" in relation to video games, they should be shot. They should probably also lose the argument, but mainly be shot.

TillEulenspiegel
21-11-2011, 11:11 PM
If I ever had customers that behaved the way you do, I wonder why I'd bother at all.
Because you're doing what you want, because a certain percentage of people really get it and love what you do.

Besides old cliches about the impossibility of pleasing everyone, you really have to treat random internet whining as background noise these days. There's no other way to survive as a creator with a large audience. Let people whom you respect bubble up the odd bit of useful criticism, but ignore the rest.

soldant
22-11-2011, 12:41 AM
It's not like Minecraft is in an incomplete state; it's a finely polished game...
Thing is, it's not really all that polished. Minecraft has just suffered from feature creep with half-explored concepts. The entire experience-enchanting thing seems pretty ridiculous, the "deep" combat mechanics were just the addition of some power attacks, and really The End is just an inverted Nether with... well, nothing really. Just a single end boss. And SMP is still not on par with SP, and there's still a massive backlog of bugs. Minecraft just received an entirely arbitrary 1.0.0 release. Which is fine, but it's still not polished, and given that some of these bugs have been present for a while, it's pretty ridiculous that they haven't been fixed.


Minecraft is a limitless and massive game and everything to come is just icing on the cake.
Minecraft will probably see expansion but it's likely to come at cost now that the game has been deemed "finished". Which I really don't care too much about because everyone who bought it should have known that we didn't really know what it was going to become. Still I think the modding community has done a much better job at adding in content.

deano2099
22-11-2011, 02:10 AM
It's a really odd situation.

Seems like Notch had a plan for Minecraft that involved making it into a proper RPG-ish explore-em-up, but then the internet got hold of the game and that really wasn't what they were interested in.

I feel a bit bad for people that bought it on the promise of having 'game' added to it, but come on, that's a tiny number of people. Most people bought it for the crazy construction kit it is. And it must be fairly disheartening to sell millions of copies then release a new update adding RPG-y stuff only to have most of those millions not care. I can see why he basically 'gave up' on it and it makes sense in context.

soldant
22-11-2011, 05:53 AM
Actually the major drawcard seems to be the Survival mode, which is what most people wanted to be expanded. Instead we have a bunch of largely toothless mobs.

R-F
22-11-2011, 07:20 AM
Thing is, it's not really all that polished. Minecraft has just suffered from feature creep with half-explored concepts. The entire experience-enchanting thing seems pretty ridiculous, the "deep" combat mechanics were just the addition of some power attacks, and really The End is just an inverted Nether with... well, nothing really. Just a single end boss. And SMP is still not on par with SP, and there's still a massive backlog of bugs. Minecraft just received an entirely arbitrary 1.0.0 release. Which is fine, but it's still not polished, and given that some of these bugs have been present for a while, it's pretty ridiculous that they haven't been fixed.

Yeah, pretty much this. Half-arsed features does not a good game make.


It's a really odd situation.

Seems like Notch had a plan for Minecraft that involved making it into a proper RPG-ish explore-em-up, but then the internet got hold of the game and that really wasn't what they were interested in.

I feel a bit bad for people that bought it on the promise of having 'game' added to it, but come on, that's a tiny number of people. Most people bought it for the crazy construction kit it is. And it must be fairly disheartening to sell millions of copies then release a new update adding RPG-y stuff only to have most of those millions not care. I can see why he basically 'gave up' on it and it makes sense in context.

That wouldn't be an issue if he'd actually FINISH anything that he's started on.

Instead, he does one thing then halfway through... Goes and does another. Like any person who has no idea what he's doing and he's just got a pocket full of money.

It makes me think, how much better would Minecraft be if Notch wasn't super rich?

sabrage
22-11-2011, 07:28 AM
Do you want everyone who calls you out for your attitude to be shot? Or just that one particular area? I think that people who use genocide as a means to relate their views should be shot.

Wait.

R-F
22-11-2011, 07:48 AM
Do you want everyone who calls you out for your attitude to be shot? Or just that one particular area? I think that people who use genocide as a means to relate their views should be shot.

Wait.

No, just people who fail at using the term "sense of entitlement", which has reached the same level of non-meaning as "ad hominem". Certain kinds of people (mainly on the WoW forums) overusing it CONSTANTLY.

sabrage
22-11-2011, 08:33 AM
I suppose I'm probably not as versed in internet pissing matches as you. I'd take your word for it if it didn't so aptly describe your sense of entitlement towards another human being's free time and creative process.

R-F
22-11-2011, 10:02 AM
I suppose I'm probably not as versed in internet pissing matches as you. I'd take your word for it if it didn't so aptly describe your sense of entitlement towards another human being's free time and creative process.

Yes. It's not like I, and millions of other people, paid for that free time and creative process.

Shit, no, I'm just taking a dump all over someone who's doing it out of the goodness of his heart.

Gnoupi
22-11-2011, 06:33 PM
People have to get used finally to the fact that buying a game in "alpha" is what it is. You have no guarantee whatsoever that the "final game" will be coming some day, or that it will meet your expectations.

All what you did is buy a game in alpha. You should do it if you actually have fun with the alpha version, without expecting more.

I made that mistake several times earlier (Elemental, Achron, Cortex Command, etc.). Paying for an unfinished game, with the vague promise it will get better, is just that, a promise. You should probably put that kind of money only on games which are actually fun to you in their current state, without buying something which doesn't exist yet.

Now on Minecraft, it's obvious that it's just a toybox, with things randomly added. The code is probably a spaghetti monster for a long while already. And that's all. It's a fun toybox, but it lacks actual purpose for a lot of players, including myself. And it will for sure remain that way.

I had hope that Terraria would influence them, and it obviously did, from what they said. But they can't really operate easily in the current code, it's obvious.

Compare with the oncoming patch for Terraria, which adds countless new items and enemies. It's because they designed it this way to begin with. And probably because it's easier in 2D, I guess.
But we will never see that kind of content for Minecraft, it's just the way it is.

deano2099
22-11-2011, 07:28 PM
Anyone moaning about this bothered asking for a refund by the way? Just wondering, because if you're unhappy with the now final product, that to me would seem to be the first port of call? I'm not saying you'll get one, nor that you're entitled to one necessarily, but to be honest I wouldn't be surprised if you got one. Given what it'd cost Mojang for the few hundred people that bothered.

GraveyardJimmy
22-11-2011, 10:28 PM
Im not too bothered about the state of content in minecraft, though it would be nice to see more actual mechanics, like improved villages and things. However, I do have a problem with performance. Its the first time that a game has actually managed to repeatedly and constantly shut down my computer. No other game does that.

Danny252
22-11-2011, 11:33 PM
Im not too bothered about the state of content in minecraft, though it would be nice to see more actual mechanics, like improved villages and things. However, I do have a problem with performance. Its the first time that a game has actually managed to repeatedly and constantly shut down my computer. No other game does that.

The recent releases have been pretty stable for me, actually. The one thing I have found to improve performance is deleting Minecraft's default sound drivers (/.minecraft/bin/natives/OpenAL---.dll), which are rather out of date, forcing it to use your system's. Obviously, you need OpenAL installed separately to do that, but the other bonus is that you get proper 3D sound. Got rid of the horrible lag rain was giving me, as well as sound clipping.

As for the current state of minecraft, I recently got back into it having last been around 1.6/1.7ish. The work put into the map generation since then has amazed me - it's really quite beautiful now, and exploring really is quite fun.

soldant
23-11-2011, 02:31 AM
I like Minecraft, don't get me wrong, because I like the sandbox building aspect. Which is why I like how they added Creative mode. But Survival mode never really advanced beyond the initial stages, everything else has sort of just been tacked on without addressing the core problem: the hostile mobs are practically toothless after you get a sword, so long as you remain observant and don't allow yourself to get too badly outnumbered. And the risk decreases with each additional weapon tier you climb up.

To survive your first night, you build a wall and put torches around it. And nothing can touch you! A lot of us were hoping that there'd be an improvement in this sort of thing so that mobs weren't absolutely incapacitated by a simple wall. When they added in Creative Mode to separate survival from creation, I think a lot of people assumed it'd pave the way for more destructive mobs (especially with the default Endermen behaviour of moving blocks) but that never happened.

But I'm not complaining too much. I paid bugger all for it and have gotten probably over a hundred hours of gameplay out of it, so as far as I'm concerned it was a good purchase. I just wish they'd taken a page out of Terraria's book, instead of a few words.

R-F
23-11-2011, 07:34 AM
People have to get used finally to the fact that buying a game in "alpha" is what it is. You have no guarantee whatsoever that the "final game" will be coming some day, or that it will meet your expectations.

But that's not what anyone has issue with. What people have issue with is the fact that Notch is using it as a free ride AFTER making everyone pay. If he released a game that wasn't to people's tastes, that'd be fine. The issue is that he's fucking LAZY.


I had hope that Terraria would influence them, and it obviously did, from what they said. But they can't really operate easily in the current code, it's obvious.

Compare with the oncoming patch for Terraria, which adds countless new items and enemies. It's because they designed it this way to begin with. And probably because it's easier in 2D, I guess.
But we will never see that kind of content for Minecraft, it's just the way it is.

Except, y'know, in mods. Here's the issue. Modders have to deal with Notch's downright terrible coding, have to deal with compatibility with other mods, have to deal with every issue under the sun, and they still manage to release mods far (http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/81771-v181-mo-creatures-v2142-with-scorpions-turtles-and-crocodiles/), far (http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/561673-181the-twilight-forest-v14/) better (http://www.minecraftforum.net/topic/495374-173-aether-collaboration-mod-v102-new-mobs-fixes-items-and-features/) than anything Notch has done.

Hell, they were doing rideable horses WITH GENETICS before Notch released the shitty wolves. That should tell you how incompetent Notch is.


I like Minecraft, don't get me wrong, because I like the sandbox building aspect. Which is why I like how they added Creative mode. But Survival mode never really advanced beyond the initial stages, everything else has sort of just been tacked on without addressing the core problem: the hostile mobs are practically toothless after you get a sword, so long as you remain observant and don't allow yourself to get too badly outnumbered. And the risk decreases with each additional weapon tier you climb up.

To survive your first night, you build a wall and put torches around it. And nothing can touch you! A lot of us were hoping that there'd be an improvement in this sort of thing so that mobs weren't absolutely incapacitated by a simple wall. When they added in Creative Mode to separate survival from creation, I think a lot of people assumed it'd pave the way for more destructive mobs (especially with the default Endermen behaviour of moving blocks) but that never happened.

But I'm not complaining too much. I paid bugger all for it and have gotten probably over a hundred hours of gameplay out of it, so as far as I'm concerned it was a good purchase. I just wish they'd taken a page out of Terraria's book, instead of a few words.

It's funny, because the behaviours are already there, even in the base game (in mobs that AREN'T in the base game, but are in the files). It's just Notch is too lazy to balance them at all.

Oh, well, just use mods, I guess.

deano2099
23-11-2011, 01:10 PM
But that's not what anyone has issue with. What people have issue with is the fact that Notch is using it as a free ride AFTER making everyone pay. If he released a game that wasn't to people's tastes, that'd be fine. The issue is that he's fucking LAZY.

Would anyone here not get lazy after becoming a millionaire over the course of a few months? I'd be far to busy enjoying myself to do any sort of coding to be honest. Were I in his position I doubt I'd have finished the game at all.

R-F
23-11-2011, 02:29 PM
Would anyone here not get lazy after becoming a millionaire over the course of a few months? I'd be far to busy enjoying myself to do any sort of coding to be honest. Were I in his position I doubt I'd have finished the game at all.

Yeah, but that's really no excuse. Especially since he's just hired a guy who seems to be equally slacking off.

Grizzly
23-11-2011, 03:23 PM
Hell, they were doing rideable horses WITH GENETICS before Notch released the shitty wolves. That should tell you how incompetent Notch is.

Fairly certain that Notch is just one guy who has a massive game to code, a game all those modder teams could not have done (because they would have done it). Having a small team work on improving a tiny aspect of a game... off-course it will be better then the work of one man who has a massive project on his hands! A jack-of-all-trades will never be the master of any, but that is not due to incompetence.

TillEulenspiegel
23-11-2011, 03:36 PM
I got more hours of enjoyment from the Minecraft alpha than I do from the vast majority of "finished" games. It was a fantastic game (excluding the buggy multiplayer) more than a year ago, and it's only become better since.

If you didn't love the alpha, you were never going to love Minecraft.

R-F
23-11-2011, 04:40 PM
Fairly certain that Notch is just one guy who has a massive game to code, a game all those modder teams could not have done (because they would have done it). Having a small team work on improving a tiny aspect of a game... off-course it will be better then the work of one man who has a massive project on his hands! A jack-of-all-trades will never be the master of any, but that is not due to incompetence.

I'm talking about Mo' Creatures when I talk about those horses. It's a single guy doing a metric shit tonne of creatures.

(Also, Notch has employees that actually code the game, nowadays. He is no longer a "single guy".)

Gnoupi
23-11-2011, 05:47 PM
But that's not what anyone has issue with. What people have issue with is the fact that Notch is using it as a free ride AFTER making everyone pay. If he released a game that wasn't to people's tastes, that'd be fine. The issue is that he's fucking LAZY.

Then again, that's his right. He is not your employee, you only bought a game in development from him. You have no guarantee on the content, what he wants to do with it, or anything. And you shouldn't expect any.
He can say that he wants to do something with it, and even not do it, because that remains his game.

Making that kind of claims, or insulting his way of working is as silly as the self-entitled jerks who brought minecraft.net down last year to complain that updates were not coming fast enough.

I can agree to be disappointed by the final state of the game, but that's the risk we all took by buying an unfinished game.
But you have no right to claim that he is lazy and that he doesn't do what you expect. That's just out of the line.

vinraith
23-11-2011, 05:56 PM
I got more hours of enjoyment from the Minecraft alpha than I do from the vast majority of "finished" games. It was a fantastic game (excluding the buggy multiplayer) more than a year ago, and it's only become better since.

If you didn't love the alpha, you were never going to love Minecraft.

This. Has it become the game I hoped it might turn into? No. Have I long since gotten my money's worth out of it anyway? Absolutely.

R-F
23-11-2011, 06:10 PM
But you have no right to claim that he is lazy and that he doesn't do what you expect. That's just out of the line.

Yes, how dare I, a paying customer, complain about a product I paid for not being up to scratch! HOW DARE I!

Danny252
23-11-2011, 06:23 PM
Yes, how dare I, a paying customer, complain about a product I paid for not being up to scratch! HOW DARE I!

He's provided you with Minecraft, which would pretty much seem to be what you paid for. If you didn't happen to like Minecraft, that's your problem - ask for a refund. I highly doubt that claiming he didn't add in every feature he mentioned on twitter/his blog/in interviews as mis-selling his product would hold up if you tried to take it much further than asking for a refund, though.

Edit: Also, why should your view of what the game ought to be have any more important than what Notch wants, what the dev team wants, or the rest of the customers? Why is it his fault if he didn't tailor the game exactly to your desires? There's more than enough mods out there, and if even they fall short of your standards, you can go and make your own.

R-F
23-11-2011, 06:36 PM
He's provided you with Minecraft, which would pretty much seem to be what you paid for. If you didn't happen to like Minecraft, that's your problem - ask for a refund. I highly doubt that claiming he didn't add in every feature he mentioned on twitter/his blog/in interviews as mis-selling his product would hold up if you tried to take it much further than asking for a refund, though.

By the way, I'm selling a game called Perfect Sandbox Game. It'll be the perfect sandbox game.

Send 29.99 to my Paypal to get immediate access to the alpha.

Taidan
23-11-2011, 08:43 PM
By the way, I'm selling a game called Perfect Sandbox Game. It'll be the perfect sandbox game.

Send 29.99 to my Paypal to get immediate access to the alpha.

Drop the price by 2/3rds, stick an early playable version on your website that runs in a browser, and get some good RPS write-up, and we'll strongly consider it.

R-F
23-11-2011, 08:52 PM
Drop the price by 2/3rds, stick an early playable version on your website that runs in a browser, and get some good RPS write-up, and we'll strongly consider it.

Okay, now you've accepted my purchase, here's the rules of the game:
1. Get sand.
2. Get a stick.
3. Play with sand and stick.

SORRY CAN'T MAKE ANY MORE GONE BANKRUPT.

Gnoupi
23-11-2011, 08:52 PM
Drop the price by 2/3rds, stick an early playable version on your website that runs in a browser, and get some good RPS write-up, and we'll strongly consider it.

This.

When you buy a game in alpha, you buy it in alpha. It's not feature complete, and it might never be.
Personally, I like alpha funding, as soon as the alpha version gives me enough fun for the money.

So please, show us a fun prototype to play with, and I'll gladly support you.


Joke aside, we got your point, you think you were entitled to a much bigger game than it became, you are disappointed, and you blame the developer for it. No need to spread it every two posts, it's quite clear.
I don't agree with this point of view, for the reasons I said earlier. Now let's just agree to disagree.

Grizzly
24-11-2011, 11:14 AM
I'm talking about Mo' Creatures when I talk about those horses. It's a single guy doing a metric shit tonne of creatures.

(Also, Notch has employees that actually code the game, nowadays. He is no longer a "single guy".)

But still that is only creatures, which is a relatively small aspect, and would not have been possible without the Minecraft engine. Off-course MMM makes Oblivion and FO3 much better, but its awesomeness would never been there if not for Bethesda's hard work (to take another example).

Not sure what exactly your problem is anyway. You bought the alpha version of minecraft, and paid the price worthy of the state it was in then. You get free updates for it (which I would now have to pay for). I don't really see your problem. I don't think you should look a gifted herd of horses in their mouths.

R-F
24-11-2011, 06:09 PM
Weird, it looks like Notch might've done this "early release" to secure a place on Steam.

"Top Notch Hat" (http://www.awesome-robo.com/2011/11/team-fortress-2-hat-is-top-notch.html)

Grizzly
24-11-2011, 06:11 PM
Weird, it looks like Notch might've done this "early release" to secure a place on Steam.

"Top Notch Hat" (http://www.awesome-robo.com/2011/11/team-fortress-2-hat-is-top-notch.html)

Whilst saying that he wouldn't go on steam because of Valve's policies?

Unaco
24-11-2011, 09:07 PM
Weird, it looks like Notch might've done this "early release" to secure a place on Steam.

"Top Notch Hat" (http://www.awesome-robo.com/2011/11/team-fortress-2-hat-is-top-notch.html)

Or, you could read the article...


But I have some sad news. The mask is a one of a kind exclusive to be given to Notch. That's right, you see this mask and you are actually playing with Notch, one of the biggest developers in the gaming world right now.

And from the source of that article, the TF2 Wiki article on the item. the item's description...


Welcome to a secret society so exclusive it makes the Illuminati look like a Costco. How exclusive? You are the only member. This is the only item of its kind in all of existence. So don't craft it, Miney.

Sounds like Valve are having a joke with Notch.

R-F
24-11-2011, 11:16 PM
Or, you could read the article...

And from the source of that article, the TF2 Wiki article on the item. the item's description...

Sounds like Valve are having a joke with Notch.

Which sounds rather odd.

Unaco
25-11-2011, 12:37 AM
Which sounds rather odd.

It's a TF2 Hat. You expect it not to be odd?