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View Full Version : Real "nonlethal" Tech has overtaken DXHR.



QuantaCat
28-11-2011, 08:28 AM
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=726

To clarify, I was researching FN, and I came across it. But it appears they have remote turrets as well.

Nalano
28-11-2011, 08:44 AM
A few things.

1) Less lethal is not the same as non-lethal.
2) It's funny how they imply that there's nothing in a police officer's repertoire between stern words and firearms. Apparently no cop has ever used billy clubs, pepper spray or tasers before Fabrique Nationale decided to step in.
3) It's also funny how, in the dramatized situations, raised voices immediately escalate the situation to requiring SWAT team backup.
4) These are air rifles with slugs. Dear god, all this high-tech shit is describing air rifles with slugs.

psyk
28-11-2011, 09:59 AM
I like this page
http://www.fnherstal.com/index.php?id=368&backPID=255&productID=90&pid_product=254&pidList=255&categorySelector=3&detail
look at the close up of those projectiles, look painful. Wonder why they need a "Impact + Inert powder" projectile seems a bit of a waste. For training apparently
http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.asp?fid=FNF021&gid=FNG003&mid=FNM0149

Police should just get a few Strafers, modify it so it can be fitted with a massive hopper, load up on metal ball bearings and shout GET BACK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK1bGEz7URQ
http://vimeo.com/6126893

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-lethal_weapon

CMaster
28-11-2011, 10:14 AM
Police should just get a few Strafers, modify it so it can be fitted with a massive hopper, load up on metal ball bearings and shout GET BACK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qK1bGEz7URQ
http://vimeo.com/6126893

That looks like a damn good way to blind people.
And yes, the terminology should always be "less lethal" - any form of disabling weapon, used enough will eventually lead to casualties.
I have to say I'm not convinced that a single shot from these things is going to be disabling anyone. Dissuading those who are getting carried away like the house-fire man, maybe. Doing anything with those set on violence and fire up with adrenaline? Less convinced.

QuantaCat
28-11-2011, 10:15 AM
yes, it is "less lethal" not "nonlethal".

But to be honest, are the weapons in DXHR really nonlethal?

Also, those strafer videos are in austria. Fun ensues.

Dees ees unkomfortayble tu shut

psyk
28-11-2011, 10:21 AM
@CMaster yeah looks so fun, aim for the legs make them dance.

@QuantaCat They are the same according to wiki and what method do they (police) use that is really nonlethal?


The Los Angeles Times times reported in 1995 at least 61 deaths associated with police use of pepper spray since 1990 in the USA.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray


Doing anything with those set on violence and fire up with adrenaline? Less convinced.

They have those microwave trucks from C&C if they get angry with rioters at least.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Active_Denial_System

Harlander
28-11-2011, 10:33 AM
Real tech only overtakes DXHR when you can get those force push handgun thingies.

QuantaCat
28-11-2011, 11:27 AM
@QuantaCat They are the same according to wiki and what method do they (police) use that is really nonlethal?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pepper_spray

What method is there at all, to be nonlethal? You can never account for whatever allergies, or defects humans have. I know a lot of "force users" want to believe that you can just "Incapacitate and get away with it", but how many times have we, mere gamers, witnessed people falling into lava pits even though weve used "nonlethal" means?!

I say, if you want nonlethal, dont bother doing anything. thats the only nonlethal way.

psyk
28-11-2011, 11:41 AM
Been having a think and the only thing I came up with is that net they use, but then I can still see ways that could go wrong.

CMaster
28-11-2011, 12:02 PM
People are really resilient in some ways, really fragile in others. Anything that knocks someone down has a risk of them hitting their head fatally. Stuff like nets probably has small risks of strangulation and again wounds from being dragged. You also have "less lethal" weaponry that while the rate of deaths is very low, produce injuries requiring medical attention so frequently that they aren't really worth bothering with.

The presentation of less-lethal weaponry in gaming is interesting, in that A: accidents leading to fatalities almost never happen and B: they normally knock the target unconscious for a significant length of time. Most actual less-lethal weapons aim to inconvenience or incapacitate targets for a short period of time (SWAT 4 accurately portrays this element). I don't know of any weapon that can safely knock someone out for a reasonable period.

Grizzly
28-11-2011, 03:03 PM
I also do not know about any guns that can instantly kill somebody by perforating their foot...

sabrage
28-11-2011, 05:29 PM
Did you know that pepper spray is banned for use in wars by the Chemical Weapons Convention? And yet perfectly legal to spray down our civilians with...

Joseph-Sulphur
28-11-2011, 09:36 PM
A few things.

1) Less lethal is not the same as non-lethal.
2) It's funny how they imply that there's nothing in a police officer's repertoire between stern words and firearms. Apparently no cop has ever used billy clubs, pepper spray or tasers before Fabrique Nationale decided to step in.
3) It's also funny how, in the dramatized situations, raised voices immediately escalate the situation to requiring SWAT team backup.
4) These are air rifles with slugs. Dear god, all this high-tech shit is describing air rifles with slugs.
I know that an anti-cop jerckle-circ is always appealing, but I really think you're overanalysing it here.

Rath
28-11-2011, 09:55 PM
I remember watching a video a couple of years ago of the development of electrified bullets being fired into a target that measured how much they were discharging on impact. Supposedly non-lethal. The company didn't appear to have a license for firearms though if I remember correctly, and had to settle for mounting one of their prototype bullets on the end of a crossbow dart in order for it to be fired.

Nalano
28-11-2011, 10:05 PM
I know that an anti-cop jerckle-circ is always appealing, but I really think you're overanalysing it here.

I'm not being anti-cop. I'm just laughing at how bad this extended advertisement is. Like the fat felon literally quivering in fear under the air rifle.

CMaster
28-11-2011, 11:15 PM
Did you know that pepper spray is banned for use in wars by the Chemical Weapons Convention? And yet perfectly legal to spray down our civilians with...

Presumably that's just because chemical weapons are pretty much blanket banned though?


I remember watching a video a couple of years ago of the development of electrified bullets being fired into a target that measured how much they were discharging on impact. Supposedly non-lethal. The company didn't appear to have a license for firearms though if I remember correctly, and had to settle for mounting one of their prototype bullets on the end of a crossbow dart in order for it to be fired.

The Tazer company make some shotgun slugs along these lines too. Probably is, this kind of electrical weaponry, while pretty good at putting people down, also has a pretty high number of adverse effects.


I'm not being anti-cop. I'm just laughing at how bad this extended advertisement is. Like the fat felon literally quivering in fear under the air rifle.

Also, just imagining that french police officer's commander talking to him afterwards. "You called in a SWAT team for what? For an unarmed man who wouldn't come out of his own house? Spending HOW MUCH?!"

sabrage
28-11-2011, 11:30 PM
I didn't mention it so much to raise an argument for chemical weapon proliferation, but rather to point out the hypocrisy inherent in allowing pepper spray to be used at all.

soldant
29-11-2011, 01:01 AM
Did you know that pepper spray is banned for use in wars by the Chemical Weapons Convention? And yet perfectly legal to spray down our civilians with...
Pepper spray is a pretty nasty weapon, particularly if you don't use it properly in a civilian environment and provide immediate treatment following exposure. It'd be even worse in a combat environment where there's likely to be large-scale, indiscriminate deployment. In that sort of environment you're not likely to be able to provide effective treatment or immediately remove exposure.

It's a pretty crap less than lethal weapon since there's too many unknown factors in its deployment and using it properly from a dispenser isn't all that easy in a risky environment. It's not like you're going to stop someone, say "Do you suffer from asthma?" and then spray them down.

Nalano
29-11-2011, 03:15 AM
It's a pretty crap less than lethal weapon since there's too many unknown factors in its deployment and using it properly from a dispenser isn't all that easy in a risky environment. It's not like you're going to stop someone, say "Do you suffer from asthma?" and then spray them down.

To be fair, this cop had plenty of time to ask about medical conditions beforehand.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmJmmnMkuEM

[aka obligatory UC Davis video]

Joseph-Sulphur
29-11-2011, 10:10 AM
I'm not being anti-cop. I'm just laughing at how bad this extended advertisement is. Like the fat felon literally quivering in fear under the air rifle.
Well he is a Belgian felon after all.