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Drinking with Skeletons
01-12-2011, 08:33 PM
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/114473-Obsidian-Unveils-South-Park-RPG

I know, it says that it's only for 360 & PS3, but based on Obsidian's history, I'd be extremely surprised if it wasn't released on PC as well.

Weird, weird news.

R-F
01-12-2011, 08:33 PM
Actually, before this, they're working on a Wheel of Time RPG.

SirKicksalot
01-12-2011, 08:34 PM
Game Informer confirmed it's for PC as well.

Obsidian's not writing it, so I'm not interested.

Smashbox
01-12-2011, 08:42 PM
Money makin'
Bill payin'

Flint
01-12-2011, 08:43 PM
This sounds immensely batshit insane but also sounds sort of interesting because of that.

Kodeen
01-12-2011, 08:44 PM
Obsidian's not writing it, so I'm not interested.

You mean we only get Obsidian's legendary bug-free code, combined with a story that someone else is writing, based on a cartoon I stopped watching a few years ago?

Where do I sign up?

Smashbox
01-12-2011, 08:46 PM
South Park is very poor nowadays, even by their own standards.

SirKicksalot
01-12-2011, 08:52 PM
You mean we only get Obsidian's legendary bug-free code, combined with a story that someone else is writing, based on a cartoon I stopped watching a few years ago?

Where do I sign up?

I thought Dungeon Siege 3 wasn't buggy.
And come on, it's a Flash RPG (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431636). How much can they screw it up?...

Althea
01-12-2011, 08:52 PM
So, this is a game based on a perhaps overly-long running cartoon by a developer with noted inability on the technical side of things (but good writers), published by a company with some recent commercial failures and a shocking stance to DLC?

This sounds like it'll be amazing.

kyrieee
01-12-2011, 08:56 PM
It's an IP I imagine they can be given quite a lot of creative freedom with, but I can't say that it makes me particularly excited. If it's a good game then I'll play it.

JamesG
01-12-2011, 08:57 PM
Can't say I'm interested in this one beyond the accademic, and I'm usually a fan of Obsidian. I wonder if we're talking full price or digital download only kind of thing.

Kaira-
01-12-2011, 08:57 PM
What.

No, seriously, what (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/FlatWhat).

Wizardry
01-12-2011, 09:04 PM
Obsidian's not writing it, so I'm not interested.
At least you understand that Obsidian absolutely sucks at creating RPGs.

Smashbox
01-12-2011, 09:06 PM
Clever. Original. 10/10

Malawi Frontier Guard
01-12-2011, 09:09 PM
But will it be better than the South Park FPS?

Serenegoose
01-12-2011, 09:11 PM
At least you understand that Obsidian absolutely sucks at creating RPGs.

That's as maybe, but they're great at making the sort of games I want to play, that belong in that nebulous definition graveyard where a lot of games look alike but nobody can ever really agree on what they're called. And one of their big strengths is writing, so it's a bit silly that they aren't getting to do that. Why else would anyone get them to make the game?

Kodeen
01-12-2011, 09:13 PM
I thought Dungeon Siege 3 wasn't buggy.
And come on, it's a Flash RPG (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431636). How much can they screw it up?...

Ah, haven't played that one so I'll take your word for it.

As far as the flash thing, I'm really hoping that that is a second, concurrent project. Can you even "compile" flash games to run natively on Xbox and PS3? I know you can for iOS, but beyond that ...

kyrieee
01-12-2011, 11:11 PM
At least you understand that Obsidian absolutely sucks at creating RPGs.

Nop, they're pretty good at it actually
NWN2 and KotOR II, both great RPGs

Althea
01-12-2011, 11:14 PM
As far as the flash thing, I'm really hoping that that is a second, concurrent project. Can you even "compile" flash games to run natively on Xbox and PS3? I know you can for iOS, but beyond that ...
Second? Obsidian's a bit bigger than that ;) This is probably a small team in a corner.

Wizardry
01-12-2011, 11:19 PM
Nop, they're pretty good at it actually
NWN2 and KotOR II, both great RPGs
NWN2 is mediocre while KotOR II is one of the worst I've ever played.

Smashbox
01-12-2011, 11:24 PM
You're grinding away at my veneer of internet decency.

Drake Sigar
01-12-2011, 11:27 PM
Doesn't bother me as much as Magnolia bringing back half a dozen old threads.

Lukasz
02-12-2011, 12:02 AM
You're grinding away at my veneer of internet decency.

with 626 posts you should know that wizardy doesn't like anything which was not made pre 1995. he even called BG games bad.


did not see that coming and not sure what to think. need to see some gameplay videos before i can begin making up my mind about this.

Wulf
02-12-2011, 12:04 AM
You mean we only get Obsidian's legendary bug-free code, combined with a story that someone else is writing, based on a cartoon I stopped watching a few years ago?

I wield ye, mighty Mythbuster. Together, let us work wonders.

Today, the myth is that Obsidian games are buggy. This isn't true. It's more an unfortunate chain of events that lead to this myth.

- KoTOR II was unfinished due to it being rushed out of the door by a greedy publisher.

- NWN II had some multiplayer bugs due to it being somewhat rushed out the door, again, not Obsidian's fault. But nonetheless the single-player was bug free from start to finish. And I know, I played it on launch day. (It was, however, a very high-end engine. So it was Ultima VII all over again, and people bitching when their hardware wasn't up to the task.)

- Alpha Protocol was no more buggy than any AAA release these days.

- New Vegas was buggy, but that was largely due to Bethesda's Gamebryo engine. This is something that they worked to great lengths to fix up to some degree. There are even points in Obsidian's code where they sigh at the incompetence of Gamebryo, and I don't blame them. Regardless of this, New Vegas was nowhere near the buggy mess that Fallout 3 was at release.

- Dungeon Siege III, like Alpha Protocol, was built on their own engine and had next to no bugs. It was as bug free as any Valve game on its launch day, it was very polished.

There are popular developers out there that put out far, far buggier launch day games that I could name, but I won't. I don't want to start a flame war, here. I just had to clear this up, because this is utter nonsense. This is filed under 'should know better.'

Disagree? Go play Alpha Protocol and Dungeon Siege III.

It's very unfair to blame Obsidian for the mistakes of others.

---


NWN2 is mediocre while KotOR II is one of the worst I've ever played.

John's not an un-player, but I'm starting to think that you are, Wizardry. :P The only thing that could be considered mediocre about NWN2 is the mind of the person playing it.

---

Really, to hate on Obsidian games, you'd have to be completely and utterly devoid of any romance and/or wonder, you'd have to have a null void where your imagination is, and you'd be unable to be inspired by just about anything. You'd have to be what the most two-dimensional, stereotypical view of an accountant is to most people, and then even more boring than that.

An "Organising my sock drawer is the most exciting thing I do each day!" sort of person. Which is utterly depressing, but I know that there are people out there like that.

Obsidian games are designed to appeal to those who're pretty much the diametric opposite of that. Have a heart? Empathy, romance... wonder? You'll dig Obsidian! Care only about mechanics, and numbers, and moving little men around boards? You'll hate Obsidian. Such is the way of things.

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 12:21 AM
John's not an un-player, but I'm starting to think that you are, Wizardry. :P The only thing that could be considered mediocre about NWN2 is the mind of the person playing it.
What? It's a D&D game that gets combat completely wrong. Just compare its implementation of 3.5E combat to Troika's Temple of Elemental Evil.


Really, to hate on Obsidian games, you'd have to be completely and utterly devoid of any romance and/or wonder, you'd have to have a null void where your imagination is, and you'd be unable to be inspired by just about anything. You'd have to be what the most two-dimensional, stereotypical view of an accountant is to most people, and then even more boring than that.
I lack imagination? Then explain to me why I regularly play CRPGs where characters are represented by a few dozen pixels.

TillEulenspiegel
02-12-2011, 12:32 AM
The only thing that could be considered mediocre about NWN2 is the mind of the person playing it.
Of all the games to defend, NWN2? Seriously?

I played coop with a friend for about half the game, and we were both bored out of our minds. I know there's an extra campaign that everybody loves, but really, the main campaign in NWN2 is just awful. Poor writing, minimal challenge, and *so* much pointless backtracking.

It's hideously long, and there's absolutely no excuse for it. I thought you hated "padding".

archonsod
02-12-2011, 01:49 AM
Nop, they're pretty good at it actually
NWN2 and KotOR II, both great RPGs

See, the problem is Wizardry sucks at defining RPGs. It's usually better to just ignore him.

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 01:51 AM
See, the problem is Wizardry sucks at defining RPGs. It's usually better to just ignore him.
At least I try. None of you guys have even attempted a definition, nor have you guys found any holes in mine.

Nalano
02-12-2011, 02:00 AM
Another thread ruined.

Jesus fuck, people.

DarioSamo
02-12-2011, 02:04 AM
Of all the games to defend, NWN2? Seriously?
Let's not forget about the terrific performance as well. :P Had to use point texture filtering with a decent GPU about the time it was released.

TailSwallower
02-12-2011, 02:14 AM
Will try and steer this desert bus back on course.

Ok, I'm totally fucking confused by this move on Obsidian's part. I'm guessing that it's going to be a $15 downloadable title, and Obsidian are seeing it more as an opportunity to gain experience in this area of smaller, download-only games whilst taking basically no risks. It's a well-known property, THQ are publishing and someone else is writing it. So yeah, I think it's more about the experience than the money.

(I mean, just look at how well Double Fine have been doing in this area.)

And to let myself get dragged into the discussion about Obsidian in general, Dungeon Siege III was made on an in-house engine and was totally bug-free. It lacked a little something overall, but technically it was sound. Some odd design decisions basically rendered co-op pointless and/or un-fun, but I think it was exactly that - design decisions, not engine limitations.

kyrieee
02-12-2011, 02:14 AM
NWN2 is mediocre while KotOR II is one of the worst I've ever played.

Luckily your tastes have no correlation with game quality :)

KotOR II has one of the best characters in any RPG and a lot of the story elements are similar to Planescape: Torment. It's probably one of the best modern RPGs even despite its cut content.


- Alpha Protocol was no more buggy than any AAA release these days.

That's bollocks. Maybe it wasn't buggy for you, but for me it was a complete mess with animations not working, enemies spawning infinitely in the same spot I just killed one etc. I had lots of problems with it.

TailSwallower
02-12-2011, 02:46 AM
That's bollocks. Maybe it wasn't buggy for you, but for me it was a complete mess with animations not working, enemies spawning infinitely in the same spot I just killed one etc. I had lots of problems with it.

My experience with Alpha Protocol was that there were bugs, but they weren't too bad. Funnily enough, for me New Vegas was almost completely stable (only 1 crash in 50 hours I beleive), and far more stable than Fallout 3 GOTY with all the DLCs and all the patches that Bethesda were ever going to make, and yet NV got panned in the press for being horribly buggy and everyone largely ignored the bugs in reviews for F3.

Stormbane
02-12-2011, 02:49 AM
South Park blech

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 02:52 AM
Luckily your tastes have no correlation with story quality :)
Fixed. If I want a good story and good characters I'd read a book.

Hensler
02-12-2011, 04:22 AM
I'd love to see Obsidian do an Elder Scrolls / Skyrim follow-up project, like they did with New Vegas and Fallout 3. But I'm pretty interested in this Wheel of Time game they are working on. I quit reading Wheel of Time after 5 books when it looked like the story was never going to get finished (thank god for Brandon Sanderson), but I love the old Unreal Wheel of Time game.

cjlr
02-12-2011, 05:09 AM
HEY GUYS I KNOW WHAT WOULD BE FUN LETS ARGUE ABOUT WHAT AN RPG IS AGAIN. Oh, wait, that'd be the opposite of fun.


At least I try. None of you guys have even attempted a definition, nor have you guys found any holes in mine.
You said role-playing had nothing to do with role-playing games. No further comment.


Alpha Protocol was no more buggy than any AAA release these days.
No. Just no. I liked that game quite a bit, and it was and remains bugged well above average. It had glitchy animations, glitchy textures, broken scripting (to be fair, only a few times for me), and some plain ol' CTDs. Alpha Protocol is notably the one and only game which has not just killed itself, but forced my system into a hard reset. The ONLY piece of software that has ever done that to me, if you want to start trading personal anecdotes.


My experience with Alpha Protocol was that there were bugs, but they weren't too bad. Funnily enough, for me New Vegas was almost completely stable (only 1 crash in 50 hours I believe), and far more stable than Fallout 3 GOTY with all the DLCs and all the patches that Bethesda were ever going to make, and yet NV got panned in the press for being horribly buggy and everyone largely ignored the bugs in reviews for F3.
Yeah, and I do think some reviewers are guilty of letting their preconceptions show through, but I think consensus was NV is on par with Fallout 3 - which makes complete sense, given that it's, durr, the same engine. As for treatment of that fact in the "press"... That's what Wulf was getting at, that people have different expectations of different studios, except if it's possible to go one step beyond reasonable when making an argument, then he's one step beyond going one step beyond.


Really, to hate on Obsidian games, you'd have to be completely and utterly devoid of any romance and/or wonder, you'd have to have a null void where your imagination is, and you'd be unable to be inspired by just about anything. You'd have to be what the most two-dimensional, stereotypical view of an accountant is to most people, and then even more boring than that.
Gee, YOU don't have strong opinions about other people, do you know? Even Wizardry's not like that ;)


Now - wasn't there an OP? Ah, yes:
I guess it might not be terrible? South Park has its ups and downs; it's mostly been downs, in my estimation, but there are some real standout episodes. My first thought is that a full game - even the length that can get passed off as a light download-only title - is so much longer than an episode of the show that there isn't really a way for it to translate. And really, who picked Obsidian? The guys who are known better for plotting and writing work, and, hmm, they're not doing the writing on this one. The guys known for less than stellar stability are doing the coding? Nobody else was available and/or cheaper?

I can see a good Wheel of Time game being possible. Hell, unlike South Park the game would be a lot SHORTER than the books. Strip that story down by an order of magnitude and it could be pretty neat.

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 05:56 AM
You said role-playing had nothing to do with role-playing games. No further comment.
Keep telling yourself that.

cjlr
02-12-2011, 06:50 AM
Keep telling yourself that.

Well, maybe I will then. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but until such time as I can be bothered to look through the forum archives, that's what I recall happened.

If you remember it differently, I'd love to know where that difference lies.

Nalano
02-12-2011, 06:54 AM
Well, maybe I will then. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but until such time as I can be bothered to look through the forum archives, that's what I recall happened.

If you remember it differently, I'd love to know where that difference lies.

Why do you encourage him to continue this useless tangent?

R-F
02-12-2011, 07:04 AM
Why does Wizardry RUIN EVERY THREAD?

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 07:11 AM
Why does Wizardry RUIN EVERY THREAD?
Why do I keep getting the blame when it quite clearly started elsewhere?


See, the problem is Wizardry sucks at defining RPGs. It's usually better to just ignore him.

Shane
02-12-2011, 07:36 AM
NWN2 is mediocre while KotOR II is one of the worst I've ever played.

At least they are much, much better than Bioware.

Nalano
02-12-2011, 07:40 AM
Why do I keep getting the blame when it quite clearly started elsewhere?

You kinda remind me of Cartman in Season 13 Episode 5 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fishsticks_%28South_Park%29).

There. A topical post.

Username
02-12-2011, 08:57 AM
Obsidian, whyyy?! I know developers need money, but still...

Althea
02-12-2011, 09:09 AM
- New Vegas was buggy, but that was largely due to Bethesda's Gamebryo engine. This is something that they worked to great lengths to fix up to some degree. There are even points in Obsidian's code where they sigh at the incompetence of Gamebryo, and I don't blame them. Regardless of this, New Vegas was nowhere near the buggy mess that Fallout 3 was at release.
Gamebryo is not and never has been Bethesda's engine. They used NetImmersion for Morrowind, it became Gamebryo between that and Oblivion, and from then on they've used Gamebryo but it is not their engine.

They did break it, though.

Juan Carlo
02-12-2011, 10:35 AM
South Park has been subpar for the past 3 or 4 seasons.

However, this season has been very, very good. I don't know if Trey and Matt were reinvigorated by their Tony win, but there were a bunch of episodes this season on par with anything they've ever done.

R-F
02-12-2011, 10:57 AM
Why do I keep getting the blame when it quite clearly started elsewhere?

Every thread, Wizardry. Every thread and every time it is a different person.

If you are the sole connecting factor between every argument, maybe YOU are the issue.

BillButNotBen
02-12-2011, 11:31 AM
Er.... anyway... is South Park still going? I remember kind of enjoying it when I was in University - FOURTEEN YEARS AGO! Good grief now i feel old.... *cries*


ahem, anyway, I haven't seen or heard anything about South park for at least the last 5 years. I honestly assumed it ended about 8 years back.
---
On a at-least-slightly-related topic - if Obsidian are working on a Wheel of Time RPG - has anyone read the last 2(?) Wheel of Time novels? Like most people, I got bored around book 4, but powered my way through to about 8 or 9. Then the guy kicked the bucket and I never heard whether it's worth going back for the last 2 to find out how it all ends. and whether I wasted all that time.

On the plus side, if the Wheel of Time RPG ends abruptly and nonsensically, it might not be Obsidian's fault for once.

Drake Sigar
02-12-2011, 11:47 AM
Of all the games to defend, NWN2? Seriously?
I have to agree. NWN2 has a poor story, uninspired villains, and a terrible terrible combat system. There are moments of genius in there like any Obsidian game (the castle and the party banter), but it's certainly not amongst Obsidian's best games. That would be Alpha Protocol and KotoR 2.


At least they are much, much better than Bioware.
*Nods* That they are, Shane. That they are.

Screwie
02-12-2011, 12:01 PM
I still very much enjoy South Park.

After waning by season 7 or 8, it changed up its format, ditched the tired Kenny gag, introduced and reinforced several supporting characters and became a really good satirical show. It has good and bad episodes but as a whole it has aged much more gracefully than either The Simpsons or Family Guy.

South Park has honestly matured, not spoiled. This season alone has given us the surprisingly moving mid-season finale "You're Getting Old" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/You%27re_Getting_Old), which had such a strong sense of finality to it that people wondered if it really was the show's swansong.

Plus I appreciate that it's the only animated show which can be as topical as it is - because of the simple style they animate in a few days what would take other shows months to put together, so they can react to current news while it's still current. 15 seasons in and it's still on my regular watch list.

But having confessed all that, I still can't bring myself to get excited for this game. It just sounds a terrible idea. :(

kyrieee
02-12-2011, 12:34 PM
Fixed. If I want a good story and good characters I'd read a book.

You heard it here first folks.
Games have no business telling stories.

Jockie
02-12-2011, 12:46 PM
One of those ideas that is crazy enough that it just might work. I like Obsidian and I like South Park, they sound like a complete mis-match, but it can't be any worse than the South Park fps released on the N64 back in the day, with its yellow snowballs.

I agree that NWN2 OC wasn't the most amazing campaign, but Mask of the Betrayer story-wise and character-wise was very good. NWN2 is probably the game I've played most out of any game of all time, due to the Pw scene.

deano2099
02-12-2011, 04:54 PM
What? It's a D&D game that gets combat completely wrong. Just compare its implementation of 3.5E combat to Troika's Temple of Elemental Evil.



Fixed. If I want a good story and good characters I'd read a book.

Then if you want a really good implementation of 3.5E combat, why not play 3.5E.

Your entire argument around RPGs stems from deriving your definition from an entirely different medium: the PnP RPG. Then you dismiss story by saying another medium does it better.

I honestly don't see the appeal of just replicating PnP RPG on a computer, if I want that experience, I can just go and play D&D. Games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc at least give me experiences I can't get anywhere else other than videogames.

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 05:32 PM
At least they are much, much better than Bioware.
That's true. Neverwinter Nights II is far better than anything BioWare released after the Baldur's Gate games. Having said that, it's still not particularly good.


Every thread, Wizardry. Every thread and every time it is a different person.

If you are the sole connecting factor between every argument, maybe YOU are the issue.
Or the more logical answer that it's those same four or five people that can't live with the fact that someone else hates games they like.


You heard it here first folks.
Games have no business telling stories.
Games can tell stories alright. Just not at the expense of the game.



Then if you want a really good implementation of 3.5E combat, why not play 3.5E.

Your entire argument around RPGs stems from deriving your definition from an entirely different medium: the PnP RPG. Then you dismiss story by saying another medium does it better.

I honestly don't see the appeal of just replicating PnP RPG on a computer, if I want that experience, I can just go and play D&D. Games like Mass Effect, Dragon Age, etc at least give me experiences I can't get anywhere else other than videogames.
Several reasons:
1) CRPGs can have far more complex rules than pen and paper RPGs.
2) Playing a CRPG is much more convenient and requires a lot less organisation.

Nalano
02-12-2011, 05:34 PM
After waning by season 7 or 8, it changed up its format, ditched the tired Kenny gag, introduced and reinforced several supporting characters and became a really good satirical show. It has good and bad episodes but as a whole it has aged much more gracefully than either The Simpsons or Family Guy.

Well, Family Guy is a glammed-up clip show and the Simpsons have gone through so many writers it's a surprise there's any narrative cohesion at all. I haven't followed South Park as closely as I did for the first 13 seasons of the Simpsons, but there have been quite a few South Park duds that I can remember.

That said, their latest season's been great. The Last of the Meheecans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_of_the_Meheecans) is one of my favorites.


Or the more logical answer that it's those same four or five people that can't live with the fact that someone else hates games they like.

Why do you take it upon yourself to enter every single thread about current RPGs and hate on the people who talk about them? Is it really only because you can't stand that they like these types of games?

We get it. You don't like current RPGs. We got that message months ago. If that's your sole contribution, congratulations. Mission accomplished. Message received. Go away now.

Tikey
02-12-2011, 05:34 PM
Hey guys, did you know that Obsidian is making a South Park RPG? shocking news, eh?

Wizardry
02-12-2011, 05:50 PM
Why do you take it upon yourself to enter every single thread about current RPGs and hate on the people who talk about them? Is it really only because you can't stand that they like these types of games?
I don't hate on anyone. I love everyone.

Drake Sigar
02-12-2011, 06:28 PM
Hey guys, did you know that Obsidian is making a South Park RPG? shocking news, eh?
We've moved on from that subject. Try to keep up. :)


I don't hate on anyone. I love everyone.

If that isn't sig material, I don't know what is.

JPicasso
02-12-2011, 06:30 PM
Timmay!

(10 characters)

Username
02-12-2011, 06:59 PM
Hey guys, did you know that Obsidian is making a South Park RPG? shocking news, eh?

I don't think this is the right thread for that sort of information.