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R-F
12-01-2012, 01:20 PM
Spiderweb Software (http://www.spidweb.com/) is that silly little indie RPG developer that does Avernum (awesome), Geneforge (pretty damn good) and etc games. They focus on old school game mechanics and turn-based combat, and it generally works out pretty well.

If you've never played one of their games, go to their website, download a demo and play the shit out of it. It's usually good for up to 1/5 to 1/4 of the game and you can automatically upgrade to the full version without losing your save files if you want to.

The games are also usually available on Mac BEFORE their PC counterparts, too, which makes us PC gamers cry but who cares we have a massive catalogue lolol.

The latest game, Avadon (http://store.steampowered.com/app/112100/), and the entire Geneforge series (http://store.steampowered.com/sub/12171/) is also on Steam, which is pretty cool.

But...


Avadon is probably Vogel's weakest game so far, and I'm seriously worried about his Avernum remake. Every time he makes a new game, he dumbs down the combat etc a little bit more, and it's steadily starting to depress me. :|

DUN DUN DUUUUN.

Now, let's talk about Spiderweb Software!

gundrea
12-01-2012, 03:08 PM
You didn't provide much to talk about. Nor did you mention the series that started it all. In fact your post felt more like an advertisement. I sentence you to life in Exile. Take him to the portal, guards.

Vexing Vision
12-01-2012, 03:09 PM
Their customer service policy sums up Spiderweb Software perfectly.

http://www.spidweb.com/misc/promises.html

Also why I buy every single one of their games, even if they're just remakes of something I already played through half a dozen times. I'm a customer since Exile 3 came out, and I haven't been disappointed yet, with the exception of Geneforge 2 and Avernum 5, which I both found disappointingly weak.

Favourites (in order): Exile 3, Avernum 6, Geneforge 5, Blades of Exile, Avadon, Avernum 3.

Cryptoshrimp
12-01-2012, 03:23 PM
I -love- the Geneforge series. It's a very unique and (for me) interesting setting. I liked Avernum a little less because the setting just couldn't pull me in like Geneforge did. The Vahnatai being an exception to that, because they were awesome. Waveblades, woo! However, Blades of Avernum was pretty great, even though it was the worst game for Spiderweb. I loved those scenarios, especially Valley of the Dying things and the underground river run. Some of the custom scenarios were pretty OK as well.

I liked Avadon well enough, but I think it missed something that made the other games great. Perhaps a world map.

Kodeen
12-01-2012, 03:55 PM
I've only played Avadon so far, and I was really enjoying it. However, the fact that you have to keep visiting the same areas over and over from a central hub got to me and I quit.

R-F
12-01-2012, 04:39 PM
You didn't provide much to talk about. Nor did you mention the series that started it all. In fact your post felt more like an advertisement. I sentence you to life in Exile. Take him to the portal, guards.

You say I didn't mention one of the series and then said my post felt like an advertisement. What.
ಠ_ಠ
I've only played Avadon so far, and I was really enjoying it. However, the fact that you have to keep visiting the same areas over and over from a central hub got to me and I quit.

Yeah, Avadon is a bit naff. I suggest you try Exile 3 / Avernum 3. It's an amazing game, although the clock that you have to race against is a bit low and will result in everything being destroyed if you don't win against it.

Vexing Vision
12-01-2012, 05:12 PM
Yeah, Avadon is a bit naff. I suggest you try Exile 3 / Avernum 3. It's an amazing game, although the clock that you have to race against is a bit low and will result in everything being destroyed if you don't win against it.

Exile 3 if you can deal with the graphics and UI (which are VERY outdated). Avernum 3 otherwise, easily the best of the series. Though I love Avernum 6 for the truly amazing set-piece battles.

The clock is not so bad, you still have time to explore everything at leisure (though some of the smaller villages will be piles of rubble. Which is what makes Exile/Avernum 3 such an amazing game.)

Wizardry
12-01-2012, 05:54 PM
His games are above average indie RPGs. However, the Exile games he made in the mid 90s were absolutely excellent, even for the time (let alone now). You kind of go in expecting an indie Ultima-esque game due to the view and interface, but instead you get a mash up of lots of better RPGs. Exile III in particular is great and easily the best of the three. Each Exile game is also better than the corresponding Avernum game.

When you've got the following in the credits it's surely a good sign.


Special Thanks To The Makers Of Wizard's Crown, Phantasie, Might and Magic, Realmz, Deathlord, Wizardry

I suppose what makes Spiderweb's games stand out is that they aren't as limited as most of the others. They aren't as focused on quality turn-based combat as games like Knights of the Chalice are. They aren't Might and Magic/Wizardry style dungeon crawlers like the largest chunk of indie RPGs are. In fact, Spiderweb games try to cover as much ground as AAA RPGs used to (before they turned to complete shit). You get the "full" RPG experience out of them, rather than any specific focus. This is probably why Spiderweb Software is the best known indie RPG developer.

CMaster
12-01-2012, 06:10 PM
The only Spiderweb game I've ever played was the demo of Exile that came on a coverdisk many, many years ago. I found it outrageously, hideously hard.

vinraith
12-01-2012, 06:38 PM
Each Exile game is also better than the corresponding Avernum game.


Why is that?

The Exiles are only available on Mac, correct?

Kelron
12-01-2012, 06:44 PM
Why is that?

The Exiles are only available on Mac, correct?

There are Windows versions on his site but it seems to imply they won't work on Vista/7.

Wizardry
12-01-2012, 07:24 PM
Why is that?

The Exiles are only available on Mac, correct?
Just generally bigger and better, with more skills, items, enemies and stuff like that. Also, the combat is more tactical as you control an extra two characters (six instead of four) and there are a lot more spells in the game. The graphics are also far better too and are much clearer, even though they are tile-based.

And there are Windows versions, but I'm not too sure if they work with Windows 7.

LordHuggington
12-01-2012, 07:28 PM
Been futzing around with Avadon in my spare time. Pretty good fun. I love being the peacekeeper everyone fears. :p Also grabbed Geneforge Saga during the Steam sale, so I'll need to poke my head in there when I have time. First time playing some of their games, and it's been a fun ride so far.

archonsod
12-01-2012, 08:12 PM
Every time he makes a new game, he dumbs down the combat etc a little bit more, and it's steadily starting to depress me.

Nah, it's a good thing. Vogel's talent has always been the quality of the writing more than anything else. In fact the gameplay in most Spiderweb games is pretty damn atrocious for so many reasons. Avadon is a step in the right direction - the gameplay hasn't been improved as such, but it has become less of an obstacle. It's at the level where it finally feels like it's supplementing the writing, rather than being a necessary chore you had to wade through to get to the writing.

Wizardry
12-01-2012, 08:20 PM
Nah, it's a good thing. Vogel's talent has always been the quality of the writing more than anything else. In fact the gameplay in most Spiderweb games is pretty damn atrocious for so many reasons. Avadon is a step in the right direction - the gameplay hasn't been improved as such, but it has become less of an obstacle. It's at the level where it finally feels like it's supplementing the writing, rather than being a necessary chore you had to wade through to get to the writing.
Believe it or not people who play Spiderweb games tend to actually like CRPGs.

Juan Carlo
12-01-2012, 08:43 PM
Every time he makes a new game, he dumbs down the combat etc a little bit more, and it's steadily starting to depress me. :|

I've only ever played "Avadon" and the first two Geneforge games, so I'm no expert, but I think Avadon has the best combat of the three.

Which surprised me as I played Avadon first and kept hearing from fans how dumbed down it was, so I expected the Geneforge games to be hardcore. But while Geneforge 1 and 2 are better than AVadon in most ways (larger worlds, more choices, more stats, etc, etc), combat in Geneforge sucks compared to Avadon. All the enemies are haphazardly placed seemingly with no regard to requiring strategy from the player. I played GEneforge 1, for example, on torment as an agent and it was absurdly easy. I breezed through the game spamming the same three spells without having to use strategy much at all (and I didn't even have to craft a single creation, which is kind of sad).

Avadon, however, while being way more linear, also has some of the best combat I've seen recently in a turn based RPG. Some of the boss battles are epic and brilliantly designed, and if you play on torment often times if you don't have something as small as party placement just right you will get your ass handed to you. Beating Avadon on torment was one of the more challenging (and fun) game experiences I've had in a while.

So, like I said, I probably haven't played enough Spiderweb games to say definitively, but at least as far as combat goes, I think Avadon is a huge improvement over the earlier Geneforge games.

Wizardry
12-01-2012, 08:48 PM
That's because the Geneforge games were never "hardcore" because of their combat.

vinraith
12-01-2012, 09:24 PM
Just generally bigger and better, with more skills, items, enemies and stuff like that. Also, the combat is more tactical as you control an extra two characters (six instead of four) and there are a lot more spells in the game. The graphics are also far better too and are much clearer, even though they are tile-based.

And there are Windows versions, but I'm not too sure if they work with Windows 7.

Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Why on Earth would he put less stuff in a remake?

It'd be great if he'd put the Exiles up on GOG, who might get them working on current OS's. I don't see it happening, of course, but a person can hope.

Wizardry
12-01-2012, 09:30 PM
Interesting, thanks for the explanation. Why on Earth would he put less stuff in a remake?
New engine is my guess.

archonsod
12-01-2012, 10:28 PM
Believe it or not people who play Spiderweb games tend to actually like CRPGs.

Yeah. I know, because I like cRPG's. As does everyone else I talk to who likes cRPG's. This is actual cRPGs rather than cRPG's as defined by you though. Now kindly go back to your mother's basement and return to cultivating your neck beard, the grownups are talking.

Wizardry
12-01-2012, 10:30 PM
Yeah. I know, because I like cRPG's. As does everyone else I talk to who likes cRPG's. This is actual cRPGs rather than cRPG's as defined by you though. Now kindly go back to your mother's basement and return to cultivating your neck beard, the grownups are talking.
She's dead. She never had a basement. I shave. I'm most likely older than you. Now stop acting childish.

vinraith
12-01-2012, 10:32 PM
Yeah. I know, because I like cRPG's. As does everyone else I talk to who likes cRPG's. This is actual cRPGs rather than cRPG's as defined by you though. Now kindly go back to your mother's basement and return to cultivating your neck beard, the grownups are talking.

I love how people that make statements like this invariably believe themselves to be the adults in the conversation.

R-F
12-01-2012, 11:49 PM
I love how people that make statements like this invariably believe themselves to be the adults in the conversation.

Yeah, I mean Wizardry's being civil and non-stupid for once. Why would you say that?