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The JG Man
14-01-2012, 03:05 AM
In news that will probably shock few, but aggravate many, Bioware (http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/323/index/8975536) has confirmed the PC version of ME3 will need Origin to be installed and will likely not be appearing on Steam. To wit:



1) Will Origin be a requirement to play all versions of Mass Effect 3? (Digital and/or from a retail brick and mortar store)
Yes, Origin is required for all PC editions of Mass Effect 3, physical or digital.

2) Is constant Origin connection required or is it a single one off authentication when the game is first installed. Is there also a limit to the number of installations available?
Mass Effect 3 will require a one time, single authorization for the single player game. There is no limit to the number of installs. Playing Mass Effect 3 Multiplayer will require a constant connection.

3) Is Origin required for the retail versions of the game?
Origin is required for the PC versions of Mass Effect 3, both physical and digital.

4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?
During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of restrictive terms of service which limit how developers interact with customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content. We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to connect directly with our consumers.

5) Is there an opt in or opt out clause for data collection?
Users will be allowed to opt-out of Mass Effect 3 data collection from inside the game.

6) I’ve seen reports that Origin is spyware. Is this true?
Origin is not spyware, and does not use or install spyware on user’s machines. In order to allow Origin to install games and their patches for everyone to use, Origin implements a permission change that results in Windows, not Origin, reviewing the filenames in the ProgramData/Origin folder. This is an ordinary Windows function, not an information-gathering process.

7) Has the Origin EULA been updated following recent questions in Germany?
The German Origin EULA has been updated. For more information, please review the Origin EULA here:
http://www.ea.com/1/product-eulas
.

8) Is there a double-opt in for Mass Effect 3 marketing emails for German residents?
Yes, we always adhere to the German requirement of a double opt-in standard for marketing emails. Mass Effect 3 users must opt-in twice to receive these emails.


Honestly? It doesn't bother me at all.

DigitalSignalX
14-01-2012, 03:11 AM
4) Will ME3 be available on Steam?
During initial release Mass Effect 3 will be available on Origin and a number of other 3rd party digital retailers, but not on Steam at this time. Steam has adopted a set of customer friendly terms of service which limit how developers can screw customers to deliver patches and other downloadable content for additional costs. We are intent on providing Mass Effect to players with the best possible experience no matter where they purchase or play their game, and are happy to partner with any download service that does not restrict our ability to control our consumers.


Fixed. 10char

Snargelfargen
14-01-2012, 04:05 AM
I can't say I have a great deal of confidence in Origin. It was just last spring that Bioware pushed out a patch that caused all Dragon Age dlc, including the expansion to be unauthorized. They didn't patch that error until November.

The infrastructure may have changed, but until I see evidence that the underlying attitude towards customers has changed, I won't be purchasing anything from Bioware, or Origin.

Interesting that ME3 only needs a one-time activation though. I guess, we'll have to wait and see how integral the multiplayer aspect of the game is. Is there an Origin client that has to run while you play the game?

SirKicksalot
14-01-2012, 04:23 AM
Holy shit guys did you know Valve's next game requires Steam and won't be available on Origin?!

soldant
14-01-2012, 05:09 AM
Fixed. 10char
Citation needed. More likely it's "We don't want Valve to dictate how we manage our product" and given that Valve self-publish digitally for the same reason (and to keep the profits for themselves) I can't see why someone else should be penalised for that.


Holy shit guys did you know Valve's next game requires Steam and won't be available on Origin?!
This. This times a million. This is not surprising, we've all known/suspected this would be the case since Origin came out, the only real news is that it only requires a one-time activation so presumably you don't need to be online to play it following that single activation.

squirrel
14-01-2012, 05:25 AM
I still don't see that Battlefield 3 comes out on Steam.

Let's give up on EA. Origin wont be dropped because you guys have shed green light to it months ago.

vinraith
14-01-2012, 05:35 AM
Steamworks, Origin, same shit, different day.

Kevin
14-01-2012, 05:46 AM
Origin has been relatively inoffensive as of yet to my Battlefield 3 experience, considering I launch the game from Battlelog anyways. As far as headaches go, it's not nearly as bad as GFWL...

...but the fact that I have to launch Battlefield 3 from a browser in the first instance is a whole other can of worms.

soldant
14-01-2012, 05:53 AM
Actually I think BF3's web interface works reasonably well. Most in-game server browsers are slow and clumsy. BF3's one is quite fast and does work really well.

gwathdring
14-01-2012, 06:10 AM
Origin isn't any worse than steam. EA and Bioware may, however, be worse about customer service than valve ... but most of my steam games aren't valve titles anyway so typically that argument is irrelevant to most of my gaming experience. I will say that I hate the interface and the color scheme and so forth, but I felt the same about steam when it first came out.

I have trouble understanding the people who shout down Origin exclusive games for not being on Steam. Of all Origin's crimes, not being Steam seems it's most minor. Hell, that seems like a good thing. I would love to have my games split between several different services with various different pros and cons that benefited certain types of games. If nothing else, it would decrease the odds of my losing my entire collection to password related misfortune.

P.S. That said, I dislike EA and have various non-Origin related reasons to lose interest in a lot of the Origin exclusive games coming up.

Oshada
14-01-2012, 06:13 AM
Have any of you preordered it? I'm thinking of preordering a retail game for the first time in a long while.

SirKicksalot
14-01-2012, 07:08 AM
Have any of you preordered it? I'm thinking of preordering a retail game for the first time in a long while.

No. If it had a super-duper preorder edition thingy like DA2 or BF3 I might have.
I think I'll put my money towards Kingdoms of Amalur as that shit's gonna bomb really bad and I'll feel bad if I'll pick it up a month later at 95% discount.

JayTee
14-01-2012, 09:01 AM
Actually I think BF3's web interface works reasonably well. Most in-game server browsers are slow and clumsy. BF3's one is quite fast and does work really well.Agreed. Initially it sounded like a completely ass-backwards way of playing a game, loading up a webpage to play potentially a singleplayer campaign? Madness! But actually it works really well, it's responsive and has (finally) the filtering options I want. Origin is much of a muchness, I only turn it on when I want to play BF3 and then it gets closed immediately afterwards, it's not really much of a faff.

Unlike say Impulse, which insists on being started up as Administrator to patch itself, but then bitches at you when you start it up as Administrator and asks if you're really really sure you want that. I hate Impulse a lot.

Althea
14-01-2012, 09:50 AM
This was pretty much confirmed by GamersGate in the past week or so.

Nice to see BioWare are once again punctual and on top of things.

c-Row
14-01-2012, 09:59 AM
Not exactly surprising. Bundling Origin with a game series that already has a large audience and will probably shift like hot cakes is an obvious way to get their service installed on a huge number of PCs, and once it's running and not too intrusive, most people won't bother uninstalling it again.

Kadayi
14-01-2012, 10:37 AM
Actually I think BF3's web interface works reasonably well. Most in-game server browsers are slow and clumsy. BF3's one is quite fast and does work really well.

Yeah tbh I think putting battlelog into a browser was a stroke of genius. Being able to check my stats etc whenever and where ever and not have to be at my gaming Rig has been great.


No. If it had a super-duper preorder edition thingy like DA2 or BF3 I might have.
I think I'll put my money towards Kingdoms of Amalur as that shit's gonna bomb really bad and I'll feel bad if I'll pick it up a month later at 95% discount.

You think KoA is going to bomb? It looks pretty interesting overall in terms of approach from what I've seen and it might catch people coming off their Skyrim buzz. Sadly due to self imposed sales hiatus I'll be passing it over until December, however I'm hoping it does ok.

As regards ME3 on Steam. I think the big issue revolves around the sale of DLC. In that Valve basically want all DLC sales to go through Steam (meaning they get their 30% cut of the action) where as traditionally Bioware/EA have sold their DLC through their own external store pages (DA:O & ME2 worked this way with you buying through your Bioware account). Personally I don't object to Bioware/EA eschewing that tbh, because generally the way developers negate the 'Valve tax' it seems to me is to pass the cost onto the consumer. DX:HR the missing link is a a good example of what I'd class as overpriced DLC: -

http://store.steampowered.com/app/201280/

At 8.99 It costs almost a third of the original game, but is nowhere near a third in terms of length. Knock about 3-4 off the price though and at 4 - 5.99 it seems like a much more viable price for a few hours of entertainment.

Generally on the whole I find that I only buy DLC through Steam when there is an actual sale on (I hoovered up more DLC for existing titles overall at Christmas than I did whole games I'd say). Compare the pricing of the DA:O DLC and you'll see the prices are a lot more reasonable in the $4.99 - 6.99 range (3 - 5) for the couple of hours general adventure DLC (The Stone Prisoner is a complete NPC companion & quest thus the bigger mark up).

http://social.bioware.com/page/da1-dlc

When DLC is going above 6 ($9-10) I think it tends to run the gauntlet of competing in value proposition with indie games and there in lies the issue with DLC pricing. It has to be low to be viable.

Might be interesting to do a survey/poll on this because I'd be interested to know whether many people do buy DLC for games outside of a discount sale. I do recall that when The Missing link appeared, albeit most of my Steam Friends were playing DX:HR and loved it hardly any bought TML at the time.

Squiz
14-01-2012, 10:45 AM
Not exactly surprising. Bundling Origin with a game series that already has a large audience and will probably shift like hot cakes is an obvious way to get their service installed on a huge number of PCs, and once it's running and not too intrusive, most people won't bother uninstalling it again.Exactly, and why not? If Microsoft and Valve can pull it off, so can EA. I'll probably wait with buying the game in any case until it goes on sale, install it, play through the main game once, and then (hopefully) uninstall it in one go together with Origin.

It's the same thing I usually do with GfWL, there are just not that many games limited to these platforms (if this is the correct term) that I'd bother with granting them a permanent spot on my harddrive. Steam has the questionable advantage of having a large catalogue of games that I am interested in, so I guess it somehow has "earned" (?) its place.

However, it recently became very apparent to me that it might be a very good idea to limit Steam purchases to an absolute minimum. Games vanishing from your games library without any notification isn't something that makes your customers happy.

Althea
14-01-2012, 12:03 PM
However, it recently became very apparent to me that it might be a very good idea to limit Steam purchases to an absolute minimum. Games vanishing from your games library without any notification isn't something that makes your customers happy.
It's also a very, very rare problem that affects a small number of users, and if hearsay is correct then it's generally the fault of Valve - Patching issues (Anno 1404), new service restrictions (Crysis 2, Dragon Fail 2) or cock-ups close to release (Arkham City).

TailSwallower
14-01-2012, 12:25 PM
I'm passing on ME3 until at least 2013 (NNGFAY), and hopefully by then the Steam vs Origin thing will have sorted itself out. My main concern is that EA will be able to sell their games and DLC at whatever price they want because they'll have a closed system. It's the same as what Blizzard does through their webstore... Then again it might not be a bad thing - big publishers selling their games at price-gouge levels means indie devs can charge more for their games and still be competitive.

thegooseking
14-01-2012, 12:35 PM
Would this be the same Origin that wants to make me redownload Mass Effect 2 even though I already downloaded it through Origin? Fortunately ME2 doesn't require Origin, so I can still play the game; I just can't launch it through Origin unless I pointlessly redownload it. But it doesn't inspire in me a lot of faith for Mass Effect 3 requiring it.

Grizzly
14-01-2012, 01:03 PM
Would this be the same Origin that wants to make me redownload Mass Effect 2 even though I already downloaded it through Origin? Fortunately ME2 doesn't require Origin, so I can still play the game; I just can't launch it through Origin unless I pointlessly redownload it. But it doesn't inspire in me a lot of faith for Mass Effect 3 requiring it.

Since Mass Effect 3 will most likely just ship with origin, I'd expect that that issue would be resolved...

Ravenger
14-01-2012, 01:11 PM
Actually the issue is that Steam insists that all DLC and patches are available through Steam. They don't mind if you sell DLC outside Steam, but you must let Steam also sell the DLC.

EA don't want that - they don't want Valve taking a cut of any DLC sales at all and want all DLC to be EA exclusive.

soldant
14-01-2012, 01:16 PM
Would this be the same Origin that wants to make me redownload Mass Effect 2 even though I already downloaded it through Origin? Fortunately ME2 doesn't require Origin, so I can still play the game; I just can't launch it through Origin unless I pointlessly redownload it. But it doesn't inspire in me a lot of faith for Mass Effect 3 requiring it.
Given that ME3 is coming on physical media, I don't see how that's going to be an issue. I don't know if Origin was designed to support physical media installs of older titles.


On topic of EA vs Valve: I think it's entirely reasonable that EA wants their own platform to deliver their own content. Valve wanted the exact same thing, and they went ahead and did it. Everybody hated it at the start, but they pushed on and now everyone adores it, perhaps too much. If EA want to sell DLC their own way without Valve taking a cut, then I can see that as a perfectly reasonable business decision. Does this mean they'll make it too expensive? Maybe. But it'd be no different if it was on Steam. Hell, EA would probably make the prices worse just because Valve are taking a cut. I don't see how people could ever think that it being on Steam would somehow result in a better price.

archonsod
14-01-2012, 01:30 PM
Given that ME3 is coming on physical media, I don't see how that's going to be an issue. I don't know if Origin was designed to support physical media installs of older titles.

It's not, it's simply a shortcut - easier for EA to have you download the Origin wrapped version of the game than release a patch for every title they've released since 2010 solely to add Origin support.

Subatomic
14-01-2012, 01:44 PM
Have any of you preordered it? I'm thinking of preordering a retail game for the first time in a long while.

Yes, but considering the digital distribution prices in continental europe (or at least Germany) regulary are 5 to 10 higher than retail, that's the rule and not the exception for us. ;)

Kadayi
14-01-2012, 01:53 PM
I'm passing on ME3 until at least 2013 (NNGFAY), and hopefully by then the Steam vs Origin thing will have sorted itself out. My main concern is that EA will be able to sell their games and DLC at whatever price they want because they'll have a closed system. It's the same as what Blizzard does through their webstore... Then again it might not be a bad thing - big publishers selling their games at price-gouge levels means indie devs can charge more for their games and still be competitive.

EA already sell their DLC at whatever price they want. I just linked you to the Bioware Dragon Age DLC. The point was the prices they charge aren't horrific Vs the cost of DLC via Steam. In fact they are cheaper (because EA know DLC needs to be a certain price point to sell).


Actually the issue is that Steam insists that all DLC and patches are available through Steam. They don't mind if you sell DLC outside Steam, but you must let Steam also sell the DLC.

EA don't want that - they don't want Valve taking a cut of any DLC sales at all and want all DLC to be EA exclusive.

Given that in order to make DLC attractive to consumers you need to keep the prices low there's little point in handing over 30% of the profits to Valve, especially when the download/delivery system you employ is extraneous to Steam.

Althea
14-01-2012, 02:07 PM
EA's DLC is point-for-point the same price as the 360 stuff, and the -per-Point system is roughly equivalent. Problem is that unlike the XBL/PSN marketplaces which are subject to sales, currency fluctuations and so on (e.g. cheap points cards), the EA system is very stable in its pricing.

Squiz
14-01-2012, 02:54 PM
It's also a very, very rare problem that affects a small number of users, and if hearsay is correct then it's generally the fault of Valve - Patching issues (Anno 1404), new service restrictions (Crysis 2, Dragon Fail 2) or cock-ups close to release (Arkham City).Yeah, I did not intend my comment to sound like I am hysterically worried about this. But it did worry me to see my Skyrim entry go *poof* some days ago. The reasons for this are an entirely different story (see below), but it was a bit of a shock (and a nuisance) for me.




Now concerning why Skyrim has vanished from my games library: I still am not sure. I assume that it had to do with the fact that I traded the game in for a bunch of promotional TF2 items with another Steam user via the Steam trading system. I contacted Steam support regarding my issue and after some to and fro they undid the trade. However, I never got any explanation why the game vanished in the first place. It probably had to do with me receiving an illegally acquired copy of the game, but I can only guess.

Rauten
14-01-2012, 03:15 PM
Now concerning why Skyrim has vanished from my games library: I still am not sure. I assume that it had to do with the fact that I traded the game in for a bunch of promotional TF2 items with another Steam user via the Steam trading system. I contacted Steam support regarding my issue and after some to and fro they undid the trade. However, I never got any explanation why the game vanished in the first place. It probably had to do with me receiving an illegally acquired copy of the game, but I can only guess.

I did hear reports of illegal copies of Skyrim floating around Steam trade during the Xmas sale, but in the cases I heard of, the Steam overwatch did inform the user that the Skyrim copy they had received had been purchased through illicit means. Wonder why they kept it hush-hush from you.

Squiz
14-01-2012, 05:47 PM
I did hear reports of illegal copies of Skyrim floating around Steam trade during the Xmas sale, but in the cases I heard of, the Steam overwatch did inform the user that the Skyrim copy they had received had been purchased through illicit means. Wonder why they kept it hush-hush from you.Of course I'd really be interested in this as well, especially since I explicitly posed this question two times in the emails exchanged with Steam support. Maybe it has to do something with me being from Germany and the support department responsible for my region? I'm not sure how different regions are handled (and if the support agents are native speakers).

Edit: Small update, I received a message via the Steam notification system (see attached image). Looks like it was an attempted scam all along.

591

TailSwallower
14-01-2012, 08:27 PM
EA already sell their DLC at whatever price they want. The point was the prices they charge aren't horrific Vs the cost of DLC via Steam. In fact they are cheaper (because EA know DLC needs to be a certain price point to sell)

Yeah, but what they're doing right now doesn't necessarily reflect what they'll be able to get away with if Origin is successful. As Nalano is want to say (and it's something that I also believe to be true) Corporations are required to make as much profit as possible for their shareholders even (especially?) if it means screwing over their customers. If Origin is the only source for EA games then they can charge whatever they want. Other publishers could follow suit and set up their own little closed system and we consumers will be forced to pay $60 for 5 year old games just because they can get away with it.

If Origin manages to sign up enough other Publishers to be a viable alternative to Steam then it could be good for the consumer, but as long as it remains primarily an exclusive shop for EA wares then I think the potential for abuse is too high.

But like I said, this doesn't concern me until 2013, so I'm just an interested third party.

Kadayi
14-01-2012, 08:40 PM
If Origin is the only source for EA games then they can charge whatever they want.

No, they have to charge what the customer is willing to pay (and the value of something invariably goes down over time as market interest wanes). The market dictates the price. EA already set their pricing as it is to match the market. Activision have pushed the boat out a bit with their pricing on COD a tad, but if MW had sold appallingly you can bet your bottom dollar that MW2 would have been more reasonably priced

deano2099
14-01-2012, 09:03 PM
If Origin is the only source for EA games then they can charge whatever they want. Other publishers could follow suit and set up their own little closed system and we consumers will be forced to pay $60 for 5 year old games just because they can get away with it.


For DLC maybe, but they still have to compete with retail right now (and even if that's going away for PC, how many PC-exclusive games do EA publish these days?).

Wulf
14-01-2012, 09:08 PM
Holy shit guys did you know Valve's next game requires Steam and won't be available on Origin?!

Obviously not the point and you know that. You know that.

The point is the difference between how EA and Valve treat their customers. I have dignity, so if you treat me like shit then I'm not going to buy your stuff. No moralistic attitudes implied, it's simply that I expect to be treated decently as a customer, which I believe is a fair expectation. If you cannot meet my standards, then you don't get my money, simple as. Valve meets my standards with aplomb, and they've always been good to me. (Their customer services have helped me out on more than a few occasions.)

I know some people don't like DRM, so they won't like Steam or Origin, and that's fine. Fine. Not the point here. The point is how the two companies handle themselves. Origin, from before it was launched up until this very second has been and currently is a PR nightmare due to dubious and unethical standards. Valve is the polar opposite. It's almost a fairytale, black & white thing. I hate that. But it's the truth. Of course, it's also the truth that companies like Gamer's Gate treat their customers with respect (I like them). But since you brought up a direct Steam/Valve correlation, those are the two I'm dealing with.

Until EA/Bioware/Origin can learn to treat me with the respect that I've come to expect from Valve and similar companies, I won't be buying anything from them, I won't be using their services. Respect is part of a service. So I view it as a substandard service that isn't deserving of my money. That's not a justification, that's just a statement of fact.

And until you can pull up a pile of evidence of goodwill on EA's part (which I can do for Valve, as can you), and until you can show me that Origin's recent history is spotless (there's been plenty of recent evidence of dubious shenanigans) then we have nothing more to discuss. And I'll have no truck with dishonesty for the sake of fanboyism. I understand that respect is not important to you, I understand that dignity isn't important to you. I get that. But to me? It's everything.

I just want EA to visibly show that they can treat customers with respect before I buy anything from them. Hopefully you'll understand that. Or maybe you won't. Maybe it'll just make a lot of people angry. But frankly, that's no big deal, and if people get angry over how I decide to spend my money, then... well, there are a lot of gamers with worrying problems.

Althea
14-01-2012, 09:16 PM
And until you can pull up a pile of evidence of goodwill on EA's part
Mirror's Edge, Mirror's Edge 2's on/off confirmation (the fact it's so on/off probably suggests there's something to it). Mirror's Edge again. Oh, there's the more prominent advertising of the female Shepard for Mass Effect 3, too, which was one of the major complaints with ME1/2's marketing.


and until you can show me that Origin's recent history is spotless (there's been plenty of recent evidence of dubious shenanigans)
I was under the impression that the "spyware" nature of Origin had been completely debunked by a highly-respected German tech magazine.

The JG Man
14-01-2012, 09:25 PM
Origin support seems to provide quick and very useful assistance to pretty much everyone I've seen on various forums/blogs documenting interaction, in some cases going above and beyond to secure consumer support. Call it a pathetic attempt to claim more numbers, but if the consumer is satisfied, I call that a positive. In personally using Origin, all I've had are fast speeds and simple use. Sure, I'd love it to have more functionality if it's going to be there (they have cloud saving, so if they don't mind doing a cloud database for me to take in-game screenshots hinthint I would be very thankful of that) but it does its job of being a store.

It's worth people bearing in mind that whilst it is ostensibly Steam vs. Origin, they do offer different services. Origin is expanding in various ways, but is primarily a store front. Steam is that and more. In terms of what Origin does, I cannot find fault.

DigitalSignalX
14-01-2012, 09:25 PM
Steam was utter shit and fraught with problems after it's initial release too. They had good customer service though, even then. I think the main difference in the future is that while Steam evolved to meet the issues of a PC ONLY e-tailer, Origin will always be approaching it from EA's unwritten policy of "PC is the bastard child of our primary focus." Their customer service and treatment of the community has reflected that for years.

The JG Man
14-01-2012, 09:30 PM
I already addressed customer service, but I doubt EA see the PC as a lack of focus. Perhaps not in a 20% split with each main console, mobile/social and the PC, but a significant enough. Even if it we see it primarily monetarily based; a lot of EA published games do come out on the PC with, and I'm going on general knowledge here, decent ports at the least. Then factor in how much money they make from The Sims and their significant investment into advertising the PC version of BF3 and later solely in TOR. I think they do what any sensible business does though and sticks its claws into where the money is readily available in quantity which seems to be the console route. Could they make more of an effort on the PC? Sure...but then I'd argue that most other publishers really should be too in one of the few cases I can think of where it'd be unfair to lambast only EA. Hell, you could say that Valve for a long time did a bad job with console ports and that seems to be largely true.

Kadayi
14-01-2012, 10:51 PM
I was under the impression that the "spyware" nature of Origin had been completely debunked by a highly-respected German tech magazine.

The whole spyware thing was complete bullshit from the word go. The only reason it gained traction is because certain games "journalists" prefer sensationalist Fox new style 'Origin is it truly spyware?' fear mongering headlines that generate massive pages hits (and thus revenue for them..because Tammy needs new shoes) Vs doing research on the matter and informing their readership as to the actual facts (because spreading gross disinformation is totally the thing to do). Weirdly enough there are people out there who speak legalese who can translate EULAs into plain English, like this guy: -

http://www.gamerlaw.co.uk/2011/08/ea-origins-eula-is-non-story.html

A few people did say this at the time, but as always when the garbage news reports came out you needed wings to stay above the BS doing the rounds. The whole carousel of disinfomation sprung up because of some tard on the escapist forums letting his paranoid imagination run away with him and everyone else was gullible enough to believe him without fact checking.....

deano2099
14-01-2012, 11:28 PM
Until EA/Bioware/Origin can learn to treat me with the respect that I've come to expect from Valve and similar companies, I won't be buying anything from them, I won't be using their services. Respect is part of a service. So I view it as a substandard service that isn't deserving of my money. That's not a justification, that's just a statement of fact.

I get that as a generality (don't buy from companies that treat you badly) but that's not the point here either and you should know that. Yes, comparing Valve and EA as companies, Valve have a better record.

But comparing Origin and Steam as services? And doing that objectively, rather than just buying into the narrative that gamers and the internet have created because they don't like EA but do like Valve?

The spyware thing turned out to be bullshit. EA's Origin customer service seems to quicker to respond than Valve. No reported issues with Origin doing stuff like canceling accounts because of PayPal payment issues. One-time only activation instead of check on every load with Steam.

There's a ton of good reasons that, as a product, it's arguably better than Steam (I don't personally think so but there's not much in it). You hit the nail on the head when you said Origin was a disaster well before it even launched. It didn't even exist, no-one could use it, and already most people decided they hated it. That doesn't sound logical to me.

Megagun
14-01-2012, 11:53 PM
You hit the nail on the head when you said Origin was a disaster well before it even launched. It didn't even exist, no-one could use it, and already most people decided they hated it. That doesn't sound logical to me.
The hate on Origin doesn't seem too surprising, to me. Especially not after that spyware thing.

Take a company most people don't really like (EA), hand out some 'evidence' which if true would have some severe consequences (stealing of personal data, like tax forms or some data from some cellular phone software tool), provide little to no real explanation and have the 'evidence' be hard to understand for the average gamer, and you'll have yourself a perfect hate-campaign. People won't be very inclined to question the evidence, because they aren't surprised that the target company would do such a thing. Furthermore, even those that do some research may not have the technical background to really understand what is going on. It was a well-executed hate campaign, if it was a hate-campaign (I don't believe it is). It even had a nice snowballing-effect going on. If you're somewhat active on Reddit, you'll see that there are references made to this spyware thing rather often when Origin is mentioned. People still genuinely believe that Origin is spyware.

soldant
15-01-2012, 01:16 AM
Origin's hate campaign wasn't even well executed, it was just the standard inarticulate rage combined with "But it's EA!" which is apparently enough reason to hate everything in spite of facts.

I can understand the suspicion surrounding EA but Origin has proven to be entirely benign thusfar, especially given the scrutiny it's under. Its prices aren't particularly good (at least here in Australia) but a boatload of big-name publishers have terrible prices on Steam as well in our region. The app itself isn't anywhere near as bad as Steam was on release, and I've never had it refuse to let me play a game or randomly get stuck in an updating loop or "Game not available!" problem that Steam seems to be more prone to.

I can see it's entirely EA's intention to maintain control of their publishing and detach themselves from Valve, but they're a goddamn publisher, of course they want to do that. You can't criticise them for what Valve did in the first place. And Origin is still superior to some of the other systems out there, like Impulse or Desura.

archonsod
15-01-2012, 01:50 AM
we consumers will be forced to pay $60 for 5 year old games just because they can get away with it.

Really? How do they manage that, put a gun to your head and force you to buy the games?


Steam was utter shit and fraught with problems after it's initial release too. They had good customer service though, even then.

Last time I opened a ticket with Steam customer service it took them three days to acknowledge it. I'd solved the problem and closed the ticket myself by the end of the week without ever hearing from an actual human on their end. Conversely, last time I opened a ticket with EA I had the automated response within an hour, a tech support rep contacted me within four hours and we sorted the issue out in under a day.


"PC is the bastard child of our primary focus."

Except EA probably release more PC exclusive titles than anyone else. Although it's a dumb statement to begin with; when you're the size of EA the format is largely irrelevant. If they think a title will make money on an abacus they'd release it on an abacus, because that's the entire purpose of their business.

Kadayi
15-01-2012, 02:14 AM
It even had a nice snowballing-effect going on. If you're somewhat active on Reddit, you'll see that there are references made to this spyware thing rather often when Origin is mentioned. People still genuinely believe that Origin is spyware.

Indeed. I'd say the most obnoxious thing about the whole affair is that a lot of this disinformation was pedaled by the gaming press and that because no one attempted to clarify the facts (because hating on EA is always good for hits) there does exist a large group of gamers out there who automatically are 'EA, no thanks' boycotting games under the mistaken belief that Origin is going to find and upload their hentai porn....

A complete /facepalm of absurdity tbh

Kaira-
15-01-2012, 02:27 AM
A complete /facepalm of absurdity tbh

One of the rare few times when I find myself agreeing with Kadayi. Origin is basically just Steam but from a different company, looking a bit different and not having 3rd party games. That's about it.

Jockie
15-01-2012, 02:27 AM
Origin is almost a dirty word, based on disinformation and bias. I use the service and find it less intrusive than steam.

deano2099
15-01-2012, 03:32 AM
The hate on Origin doesn't seem too surprising, to me. Especially not after that spyware thing.

Take a company most people don't really like (EA), hand out some 'evidence' which if true would have some severe consequences (stealing of personal data, like tax forms or some data from some cellular phone software tool), provide little to no real explanation and have the 'evidence' be hard to understand for the average gamer, and you'll have yourself a perfect hate-campaign. People won't be very inclined to question the evidence, because they aren't surprised that the target company would do such a thing. Furthermore, even those that do some research may not have the technical background to really understand what is going on. It was a well-executed hate campaign, if it was a hate-campaign (I don't believe it is). It even had a nice snowballing-effect going on. If you're somewhat active on Reddit, you'll see that there are references made to this spyware thing rather often when Origin is mentioned. People still genuinely believe that Origin is spyware.

Couldn't have gone better if Valve had planned it...

_Jackalope_
15-01-2012, 04:51 AM
This is going to be a massive problem for me. During the Burnout Paradise giveaway, I gave Origin a go. The damn thing just wouldn't run. It kept locking up the whole of my PC during it's starting up process. I uninstalled and forgot about it. I read the ME3 news and just gave it a try and it still won't work. As someone who bought ME2 first, played it for a week, went and bought ME1, played through that before resuming ME2 and then got all the DLC, I am really disappointed that I might not be able to play the final chapter purely because EA's stupid distribution service has a problem with my PC. Even bloody Arkham City and Skyrim, two games that spawned endless threads of complaints on release day ran without a hitch.

Moraven
15-01-2012, 07:53 AM
One of the rare few times when I find myself agreeing with Kadayi. Origin is basically just Steam but from a different company, looking a bit different and not having 3rd party games. That's about it.

Origin sells 3rd party games.

What it will come down to is features and the big thing is friend list. Everyone wants steam since that is what their biggest library is already and has a good friend invite/join system when games use it. Along with community aspects and other features it became the dominant player and it will take a lot to push them out.

JiminyJickers
15-01-2012, 08:38 AM
You're allowed to play offline, so I can tolerate it.

I would prefer it not to be tied to anything. If anything, I would prefer to be tied to Steam, because so many of my games are tied to it and I don't want to be tied to another service. But I guess it is still better than it could have been.

DigitalSignalX
15-01-2012, 08:21 PM
Except EA probably release more PC exclusive titles than anyone else. Although it's a dumb statement to begin with; when you're the size of EA the format is largely irrelevant. If they think a title will make money on an abacus they'd release it on an abacus, because that's the entire purpose of their business.

Here's some facts provided by our very own RPS (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2011/07/27/eas-non-gaap-figures-pc-beating-consoles/): Total EA sales by platform, regardless of number of titles:

PC: $205m
360: $345m
PS3: $308m

So ya, PC is 3rd place by a wide margin, and it's fair to say they will commit resources to protect their financial interests in that order.

Cooper
15-01-2012, 08:41 PM
Does anyone know if games activated through Origin REQUIRE Origin to still be installed to play them (regardless of internet connection post activation)?

i.e: You may need to be online to activte ME3, so can I also just install ME3, activate it through Origin and then uninstall Origin?

Or do I have to have both ME3 and Origin installed to play ME3?

In which case, what does Origin provide me, as a consumer, that makes it worth keeping on my computer?

Because I think a key debate here is that Steam is an extra layer of software, and DRM, but comes with functionality appreciated by many, although not all, consumers. Sure, it's primarily a storefront, but they do a very good job of hiding that under a vast array of, to me at least, useful functions I don't mind, and even quite like, having on my computer.

Origin seems to be an extra layer of software, like GFWL, that provides little to no functionality desired or wanted by consumers. Origin seems to be nothing but a storefront for now.

Which makes Viniraith's and others comparisons misleading. Origin and Steam are very different beasts.

So, am I basically installing advertising software when I install ME3? In which case, is this not just ad-ware?

Megagun
15-01-2012, 08:58 PM
Does anyone know if games activated through Origin REQUIRE Origin to still be installed to play them (regardless of internet connection post activation)?

i.e: You may need to be online to activte ME3, so can I also just install ME3, activate it through Origin and then uninstall Origin?
Depends on the game. Some games don't; some games do. Battlefield 3 does require Origin to be installed. I expect Mass Effect 3 to be the exact same. Older games, at least, don't require Origin to be running or installed. I just verified this with Spore's Creature Creator (Why the fuck do I even own that, ugh!)


In which case, what does Origin provide me, as a consumer, that makes it worth keeping on my computer?
Automatic updates, chatting with friends, in-game overlay (same functionality as Steam's overlay), cloud storage (for supported games, Battlefield 3 and BFBC2 support it, so I guess ME3 will also support it).

Origin is pretty much Steam only without all the "Social" features.

The JG Man
15-01-2012, 09:14 PM
I got Mass Effect 2 free by having a copy of DA2. Other than needing to have Origin for the downloading, I never once had to open it after it was fully installed (to wit, I can even boot ME2 up from Steam after I added it to my library!). That'll obviously not be the case with ME3, but that doesn't mean to say that single player only games in the future will definitely require Origin running. I think that's yet to be properly clarified though with ME3 if you're only playing offline.

Althea
15-01-2012, 09:37 PM
(to wit, I can even boot ME2 up from Steam after I added it to my library!)
I'm unsure what your point is here - you can do that with any title ever from any distributor ever.

The JG Man
15-01-2012, 09:44 PM
That wasn't the focus of my point, just a humorous addition. The point being that if EA really wanted to force Origin home, they could've forced it to be running in the background when that offer for ME2 was given out. As it was, all I needed to do was use it to input my code, downloaded it and it was fine to run as I said. They obviously want it to be used a lot, but that doesn't mean it'll be necessary in all future cases.

Juan Carlo
16-01-2012, 04:20 AM
You can buy physical copies of Valve games through the Origin store. EA handles all of Valve's physical distribution, which is a bit strange given how unfriendly they seem to be over the past couple years.

Anyhow, if anyone really wants any EA games on steam I'd buy them now if I were you. Who knows when the deal that Valve and EA have set up to sell the EA games currently on steam will expire. When it does, though, I imagine most will be pulled from the store.

Grizzly
16-01-2012, 12:32 PM
You can buy physical copies of Valve games through the Origin store. EA handles all of Valve's physical distribution, which is a bit strange given how unfriendly they seem to be over the past couple years.
Strange that
You can buy games on Origin that have Steam in it.
The opposite is not true.

Can't we all just... get along?

Althea
16-01-2012, 01:01 PM
Strange that
You can buy games on Origin that have Steam in it.
The opposite is not true.

Can't we all just... get along?
Well, you don't get them through Origin as such. You get a disc sent to you - It's probably just a way for EA to clear stock.

Christian
16-01-2012, 11:58 PM
He, isn't it cute every time this happens.
I've seen it happen a lot of times during the years and it's always the same and stays quite funny: A few moths ago everybody (and I'm sure someone will be able to dig up some flaming hate-posts regarding Origin from the same people now saying m'kay here) was totally furious in their little tinfoil-hats and angrily jumping up and down, getting all worked up how awful Origin was and that it has to be the most single evil thing since WallMart and Starbucks. And browser-based server-browser? Witchcraft!
And now that EA didn't actually do anyone's taxes for them or stole anybody's cat, nothings left anymore. And Origin is okay.

But one thing never stops to amaze me: it's really fantastic how thousands of independent people who don't know anything about each other manage to come to some sort of consensus quite quickly (or start a holy shitstorm over some ill-formulated marketing-guy's response). Now if one could that energy to some use..

SirKicksalot
17-01-2012, 12:17 AM
Weirdly enough there are people out there who speak legalese who can translate EULAs into plain English, like this guy: -

http://www.gamerlaw.co.uk/2011/08/ea-origins-eula-is-non-story.html



The comments under that article are incredible.

deano2099
17-01-2012, 03:14 AM
He, isn't it cute every time this happens.
I've seen it happen a lot of times during the years and it's always the same and stays quite funny: A few moths ago everybody (and I'm sure someone will be able to dig up some flaming hate-posts regarding Origin from the same people now saying m'kay here) was totally furious in their little tinfoil-hats and angrily jumping up and down, getting all worked up how awful Origin was and that it has to be the most single evil thing since WallMart and Starbucks. And browser-based server-browser? Witchcraft!
And now that EA didn't actually do anyone's taxes for them or stole anybody's cat, nothings left anymore. And Origin is okay.


To be fair, the Spyware thing was concerning and somewhat convincing. It's now been debunked.

soldant
17-01-2012, 05:35 AM
To be fair, the Spyware thing was concerning and somewhat convincing. It's now been debunked.
It was just people quoting from the EULA without even bothering to see if similar terms existed in other EULAs.

Kadayi
17-01-2012, 09:23 AM
It was just people quoting from the EULA without even bothering to see if similar terms existed in other EULAs.

Dude it wasn't even that. It was a case of some guy on the escapist forums basically imaginatively reinterpreting what was it said as well as adding in some X files conspiracy level BS and everyone (including alleged 'game journalists') running with his interpretation without questioning it....