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View Full Version : So, morally justified pirating then.



Bhazor
15-01-2012, 09:57 PM
I have ferverently against the idea of piracy as protest (I mean unless you're sending the makers a letter explaining then they really have no idea what you're doing) but I recently found myself having to take an exception.

I'm studying biomedical Science with a particular interest in genetics. In studying genetics it is impossible to avoid or ignore the Christian Science vs Actual Science debate in particular the bit about evolution. As such I felt it was necessary to examine the opposing ideas so I could know how to refute them. To this end I looked up some pro-creationist media and found one of the most popular was a piece of work called "Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed". A documentary that caught my attention for two reasons;
1) It had been advertised on Fox news. Which sadly makes it probably the most credible pro-creationsit science work available.
2) It was written and presented by the teacher from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. A fact that was still making me grin an hour into the documentary.

The problem with this documentary though was that a portion of revenue was used to fund a campaign to get this and similar films shown in schools. I didn't much care for that. At the time the only place selling it was a christian science website so I couldn't even get it second hand. So instead I ventured to the backwoods of the internet, where the Craks and Warez roam amongst the videos of unhurried buggering. There I finally found a link to a fileshare site that didn't make my virus protection cry.

Having watched the documentary I can honestly say I am glad I didn't pay for it. In its favour I will say it is awful in a strangely fascinating way. Interviews end halfway through an answer, he uses a philosopher as an expert on biology, he talks over his interviewees, half the documentary is about the holocaust which he never really links back to evolution and that philosopher he interviews spends the whole time on his back with his legs splayed wide open. It's almost magical realist in its distancing from the basics of documentary film making. I'd definitely say its worth watching if you have any interest in the debate. It does a damn fine job of undermining every single pro-creationist idea.

Anyone else had a politacally/morally justified reason to pirate something? No I do not consider "It didn't have a demo" or "It was barely an expansion pack" as moral reasons. By morally justified I mean you would be able to explain your reasoning to a figure representing honesty and a high moral code without feeling embarrased or ashamed. Imagine you are explaining your reasoning to a young child

Or Applejack.

R-F
15-01-2012, 10:00 PM
Or Applejack.

I bet you watched MLP on YouTube.

Kadayi
15-01-2012, 10:26 PM
So where's the bit about PC game piracy in this?

redspielened
15-01-2012, 10:40 PM
Don't get hung up on "moral justification", morality is in itself subjective and tied down to your particular environment and nurture, and it would mean very little as concerns "Internet piracy", especially to some people (like me, who have grown up in rather poor countries with little opportunities for legitimate purchases +/- other concerns).

But as it turns out, my reading habits were facilitated by piracy, even the first book I read in High School and which furthered my intellectual habits was due to piracy (the book was "1984"). And even now at University piracy helps me in that regard as I can un-drm books from my library so I can read them later or read them on my Kindle. Not to mention all the wonderful documentaries I could download and see only due to piracy. I now translate books that I've pirated and that aren't available in my language, and which I consider important; the books I've read are also helping me with my project of a podcast of mixed philosophical interests (reasons for action + epistemology + history). Courses I've pirated from TTC greatly helped my education and decided what course I pick for university. I'm sure I could say more in favor of it, but alas, I've said enough.

westyfield
15-01-2012, 10:48 PM
Fail degree course or pirate .pdfs of textbooks. Not a hard decision to make.

Rii
16-01-2012, 02:20 AM
Piracy no more requires justification than does breathing.

Nalano
16-01-2012, 04:58 AM
2) It was written and presented by the teacher from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. A fact that was still making me grin an hour into the documentary.

In the words of Henry Blodget, Ben Stein is an idiot (http://www.businessinsider.com/2008/1/ben-stein-is-an-idiot).

sabrage
16-01-2012, 05:06 AM
Piracy no more requires justification than does breathing.
Shit, if I lived in Australia, I wouldn't buy games either.

Nalano
16-01-2012, 05:15 AM
One question for the OP: At what point in your research into the arguments of creationists did you realize that there is no arguing with them, because the whole idea that there's a controversy in the first place is stupid?

Caleb367
16-01-2012, 02:43 PM
Now that you've made me think about it, gaming gets the short stick transaction-wise in a way... I'll elaborate: if I buy a car, usually there's the recess clause (I think that's how it's called) meaning that if I'm not satisfied with it I can back down on purchasing. Movies, I can go see them at a theater or rent them at a store before deciding to buy the Deluxe Boxed Set or whatever. As for gaming... you have to stick to demos - if and when they come out, and even then they're not completely trustworthy; being an old-timer from the C64 age, I've had my share of full games only slightly longer than demos and/or being impossibly bugged, like an used car salesman showing you only the shiny half of the car, not the rat nest living in the engine. No demos means buying stuff on blind faith or relying on reviews - which, again, are not completely trustworthy, and I'm picking my personal experience of buying Supreme Commander 2 after being conned by good reviews on Gamespot and whatnot... 16E wasted on a disgusting piece of crap.

Revisor
16-01-2012, 03:15 PM
For further studies: Christian fundamentalist reviews of Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
http://www.christianbook.com/expelled-no-intelligence-allowed/pd/004922?cm_mmc=CBDFeeds-_-BVReviews-_-DVDs-_-004922#customer_reviews

You can sort the reviews by age and gender of the reviewers, a feature I haven't seen anywhere else.

Bhazor
16-01-2012, 10:14 PM
One question for the OP: At what point in your research into the arguments of creationists did you realize that there is no arguing with them, because the whole idea that there's a controversy in the first place is stupid?

The science is settled and the creationists have offered up nothing but name calling and misqoutes. But that doesn't stop them from lobbying the government and sadly there are far more fundemental christians in the senate than there are scientists. Fortunately even here the evolutionists are winning, this from just today.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/2012/jan/15/free-schools-creationism-intelligent-design

@ Caleb367
And if games cost $6000 you might have a point.

Nalano
16-01-2012, 11:55 PM
The science is settled and the creationists have offered up nothing but name calling and misqoutes. But that doesn't stop them from lobbying the government and sadly there are far more fundemental christians in the senate than there are scientists. Fortunately even here the evolutionists are winning, this from just today.

What does politics have to do with truth? None of this adequately explains why you're attempting to argue with them.

hamster
17-01-2012, 09:19 AM
Haha in secondary school we has this mandatory course called "religious studies". Biggest waste of time ever but for a couple of weeks I knew a crapload about Muslims and elephant gods.

Rii
17-01-2012, 09:22 AM
Shit, if I lived in Australia, I wouldn't buy games either.

I buy games all the time*, that's not the point. The point is that there is nothing morally problematic about piracy.


* Albeit from the UK

Squiz
17-01-2012, 09:43 AM
The point is that I see nothing morally problematic about piracy.says Rii. It's still an opinion.

Rii
17-01-2012, 10:43 AM
says Rii. It's still an opinion.

In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.

FuriKuri!
17-01-2012, 10:53 AM
Dayum, if there's one thing the internet ain't short on it's opinions!

Caleb367
17-01-2012, 01:06 PM
@ Caleb367
And if games cost $6000 you might have a point.

Way I see it, a scam is a scam, price has nothing to do with it. As in, a theft is a theft if you steal 10$ or 10 millions.

Tei
17-01-2012, 01:54 PM
By copying a game you are not stealing anything, but you are making so the other people put "your part". Paying for a creationist is a bad thing that make this world worse, so avoiding paying for that is a good thing. This dont apply to games.

Suppose you pay for a pederasty movie, you money help that type of thing, there piracy its a good thing.

FuriKuri!
17-01-2012, 01:57 PM
So piracy is ok if the material you're pirating is illegal in itself.

Eight year olds, dude.

hamster
17-01-2012, 02:34 PM
It's not pirating if there's no copyright, and i don't think you can copyright something illegal in the first place.

edit:
MWUAHAHAHHAHAHA

Bhazor
17-01-2012, 06:14 PM
@ Tei

Thats why I asked. Is there any game you pirated just prove a point? I know there was an uproar a couple years back about a game based on a book written by a known homophobe and I've heard of people refusing to pay for Tropico because they said it promotes leftist agenda's. Did you pirate a game you didn't want just to prove the DRM could be cracked?

For anyone interested in Expelled you can watch it free on youtube. If you hate life I recommend taking a shot whenever evolutionists are described as Nazi's. You'll be dead from alcohol poisoning within the hour.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=obqWnzAcWWA&feature=player_embedded

Nalano
17-01-2012, 06:25 PM
I've heard of people refusing to pay for Tropico because they said it promotes leftist agenda's

Really? o.O

Tei
17-01-2012, 06:38 PM
So piracy is ok if the material you're pirating is illegal in itself.

Eight year olds, dude.

I don't say buying children pornography is good. This is a mental experiment where your choices are pirate or not. Of the two options, paying for that stuff is the worse one.

tomeoftom
17-01-2012, 07:13 PM
You can sort the reviews by age and gender of the reviewers, a feature I haven't seen anywhere else.

That says so much in the funniest possible way.

Nalano
17-01-2012, 08:53 PM
I don't say buying children pornography is good. This is a mental experiment where your choices are pirate or not. Of the two options, paying for that stuff is the worse one.

Let's just say that, in the proliferation of child pr0n, piracy isn't the problem.

archonsod
17-01-2012, 09:02 PM
Piracy no more requires justification than does breathing.

Breathing also requires justification. This is why I'm not allowed a gun license.

Nalano
17-01-2012, 10:22 PM
Breathing also requires justification. This is why I'm not allowed a gun license.

This is, consequently, why it's probably for the best that I didn't have to ask anybody permission to exist.