PDA

View Full Version : THI4F - What do you want it to be?



Vicious
17-01-2012, 12:45 PM
Spurred on from disagreeing entirely with "Hardly a surprise, but it suggests something open-worldy to me, rather than a series of missions. That ’s what we want."
; what do you want from Thief 4?

Personally, I'd prefer a return to individual missions - but I'd like a storyline with branching missions and multiple ways to end up at the end of the game(and a few different ways of ending it).

I was disappointed with Thief 3's 'hubs', and found the missions overall lacked a lot of the scope and subtlety of the previous games.

I'd like Garret back, but I'm not averse to it trying something new. I think I'd also like more focus on being a thief, and less on the storyline and defeating an ancient evil.... at least until towards the end of the game.

Aside from that, I'm easy and would just like the level designers to go to town and show us what they've got.

Malawi Frontier Guard
17-01-2012, 01:05 PM
I would like to have a linear progression of missions that are all modeled after "Life of the Party" and "First City Bank and Trust" from Thief 2.

Also it would be nice to have at least one game in the series without a bad final mission.

Jams O'Donnell
17-01-2012, 01:17 PM
I would like to have a linear progression of missions that are all modeled after "Life of the Party" and "First City Bank and Trust" from Thief 2.Yes, yes, yes, and yes. The first two Thief games had some of my favourite bits of level design.

Thief 3's hub was a nice idea, but traipsing around the city really got old by the time the Keeper Enforcers were out looking for you later in the game.

Roufuss
17-01-2012, 01:19 PM
I want it to be Thief IV before anything else.

Heliocentric
17-01-2012, 02:05 PM
A match 3 stealth action casual game.
You need to charge up the Thief's (not Garrett, he is called 'Mr Bosh esq.' ) shadow bar, mini game with a guitar hero / match 3 fusion played with the shoulder buttons (360 pad enabled) or a and e on a keyboard, while sneaking you will only be best hidden if still or have a charged shadow bar.

The game will also feature a tower defense mini game when you sap a guard where you try and block conscious neural activity. A rewind button will also be present because who likes having to replay stealth game missions?

hamster
17-01-2012, 02:49 PM
I thought it was too easy to blackjack everybody in the level. There needs to be repercussions for that as you can basically KO everyone and run around unimpeded. Maybe some sections could be designed so that you can't KO somebody without (the body) being found. Moreover, the damn blackjack needs to make a noise when it connects! I assure you whacking someone in the head DOES produce a sound, a fairly significant one too I might add.

gundrea
17-01-2012, 03:07 PM
Of course neither will a blackjack peacefully put someone to sleep for the next five hours while you try to crate stack onto a ledge with an easter egg.

I'd like to see thieving and storyline. Am I too greedy? What about DLC, a storyline campaign and downladable singles on the scale of robbing an entire bank or party of nobles.

Snargelfargen
17-01-2012, 06:18 PM
I remember reading an interview where the developers said that most of the levels in Thief 2 were designed in advance and they built the missions around them. I think it shows, as Thief 2, while not being a true open world game, still gave you the option of hopping into an open window and doing a little thieving on the side, or taking a shortcut through someone's house to get to your destination.

That, I think is the best compromise. The developers don't end up spending all their time polishing a huge open world that inevitably starts repeating itself, and instead focus on making smaller more detailed sections of the city that still reward exploration.

Life of the Party is possibly my favourite level in any game ever, and it follows this rule pretty well.

Making people with helmets immune to blackjacking would be a good start. I quite liked the supernatural enemies such as zombies, and the robots defiitely added a lot of flavour to the game, but in the end the human guards had so much personality that I wish I encountered them more often.

SamuelH
17-01-2012, 06:55 PM
Was it Thief 2 or Deadly Shadows that had those guards with the hats on that went clang when you tried to knock them out?
I remember doing one of the missions and getting a huge shock when I tried the blackjack, the guard turned around and then started to chase me.

There was always the option of playing the game in so called Ghost Mode. The idea was that you couldn't be noticed by anyone. No water arrows, no blackjacking etc. I believe there are rules somewhere where the specific situations that you have to go against them are listed.

Still for me anyway, just having Garrett's voice back in a new game would make me smile.

Anthile
17-01-2012, 07:02 PM
Deus Ex with swords.

db1331
17-01-2012, 07:05 PM
I just want it to be more like Thief 2 than Deadly Shadows. The way things are going nowadays though, Garrett will probably be ripped like a professional body builder and shout obscenities at guards. There will probably be a TON of combat and assassination missions too. Also, I wouldn't put it past them to have some stupid stealth gimmick, like in Splinter Cell:Conviction where the whole game turned black and white whenever you were hidden.

Basically, keep your console shit like the 3rd person camera out of my game.

hamster
17-01-2012, 07:06 PM
Ah yes I think I downloaded the Minimalist mod or something and i would play with the 3 blackjack + no detection difficulty.

EDIT: But about Deadly Shadows vs. Thief 1 & 2:

I'm not sure about this one. I never played Thief 1 & 2 but i recall watching a Let's Play for Thief 1. The levels seemed a bit too big and fairly difficult to navigate through. Perhaps the architecture could be improved so that different areas of the level are easier to recognize. Anyway I rather enjoyed Thief: Deadly Shadows to be honest. I just think the in-game map sucks (to the point of being almost utterly useless) and it was too easy to blackjack everybody.

Snargelfargen
17-01-2012, 07:42 PM
I just think the in-game map sucks (to the point of being almost utterly useless) and it was too easy to blackjack everybody.

Terrible maps are a proud tradition in the Thief series. They are supposed to be hand drawn either by Garrett casing the outside and guessing at what's inside, or buying poorly recollected maps from people who have been inside the place. They could definitely add to the sense of confusion, as some maps ended up being totally inaccurrate or hiding large hidden areas.

R-F
17-01-2012, 07:54 PM
I'd like it to be the sort of games that doesn't have a number in it's name, especially when that number is WRONG.

Thiaf, srsly?

Smashbox
17-01-2012, 07:58 PM
I just assumed it was a joke by Vicious, but, nope... it's actually called that. Sometimes things like that make my head hurt.

Scumbag
17-01-2012, 11:38 PM
I'd like levels without loading screens every five steps like Deadly Shadows.
Well, they were not that bad, but they were really small compared to Theif 1 and 2.

Voon
18-01-2012, 03:01 PM
Having Rope Arrows

vecordae
18-01-2012, 06:18 PM
I would like for it to be pronounced "Thigh-foorf" because that's clearly how its name is spelled.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
18-01-2012, 06:23 PM
I never did play the original games but I'd love to see something small and tight like Hitman Blood Money with organic approaches to the levels and not a telegraphed approach like that of Deus Ex : HR

Unaco
18-01-2012, 06:46 PM
Basically, keep your console shit like the 3rd person camera out of my game.

I have nothing against 3rd person... It adds to immersion for me. In the real world we have proprioception, kinesthesis, things like that... We are aware of the position of our body, and how that relates to our immediate surroundings. We know if a wall is entirely concealing us from one direction, for example. Obviously, in a video game we aren't going to get that proprioception thing, and from a first person perspective, it's difficult to see if, perhaps, your (character's) shoulder/elbow/foot/knee is not being concealed. A switch to 3rd person can alleviate these issues... they can give you a decent understanding of how your avatar is positioned in relation to the environment. Certainly a more 'natural' and intuitive understanding than, say, a bar that changes colour or an icon that changes.

I wouldn't have a problem seeing such a thing in Thief 4. And I don't understand why it would be considered 'console shit'... Why is a 3rd person view considered console? Don't get that.

ran93r
18-01-2012, 06:50 PM
I'm all for change really, I'm one of the few that would choose T3 over the previous 2 games. So long as the storytelling and setting are polished I would be happy enough if it turned out to be open-world. Free roaming around town, blackjacking the bejesus out of everyone, races over rooftops, stealthing around and pinching old ladies purses.

I don't necessarily want it to be Assassin's Creed but it certainly could pinch an idea or two without stepping too far from it's slower paced stealthy roots.

Snargelfargen
19-01-2012, 01:20 PM
I have nothing against 3rd person... It adds to immersion for me. In the real world we have proprioception, kinesthesis, things like that... We are aware of the position of our body, and how that relates to our immediate surroundings. We know if a wall is entirely concealing us from one direction, for example. Obviously, in a video game we aren't going to get that proprioception thing, and from a first person perspective, it's difficult to see if, perhaps, your (character's) shoulder/elbow/foot/knee is not being concealed. A switch to 3rd person can alleviate these issues... they can give you a decent understanding of how your avatar is positioned in relation to the environment. Certainly a more 'natural' and intuitive understanding than, say, a bar that changes colour or an icon that changes.

I wouldn't have a problem seeing such a thing in Thief 4. And I don't understand why it would be considered 'console shit'... Why is a 3rd person view considered console? Don't get that.

3rd person games tend to encourage Splinter Cell style reconoittering, where your character just waddles back and forth in a crouched position swinging their head wildly, while you try and find the best angle to see over a banister or around a wall. It is silly.
Edit: I'll agree that the shit is not exclusive to consoles. Tomb Raider encouraged the same behaviour after all, although perhaps more voyeuristically.

Now maybe it's just because I grew up playing games such as thief and system shock, but I actually feel that 3rd-person view overcompensates for the loss of proper spatial awareness. Being able to look around corners when you aren't even close to the edge is basically magic. In a game such as Thief, where you are trying to remain out of sight, edging to close to a corner should carry a suitable risk.

db1331
19-01-2012, 02:32 PM
I have nothing against 3rd person... It adds to immersion for me. In the real world we have proprioception, kinesthesis, things like that... We are aware of the position of our body, and how that relates to our immediate surroundings. We know if a wall is entirely concealing us from one direction, for example. Obviously, in a video game we aren't going to get that proprioception thing, and from a first person perspective, it's difficult to see if, perhaps, your (character's) shoulder/elbow/foot/knee is not being concealed. A switch to 3rd person can alleviate these issues... they can give you a decent understanding of how your avatar is positioned in relation to the environment. Certainly a more 'natural' and intuitive understanding than, say, a bar that changes colour or an icon that changes.

I wouldn't have a problem seeing such a thing in Thief 4. And I don't understand why it would be considered 'console shit'... Why is a 3rd person view considered console? Don't get that.

Because they added it when the series went console. Xbros wouldn't be able to comprehend a game where you are in first person but don't have a gun. It ruins the whole point of a game like Thief, because it basically gives you X-ray vision, allowing you to move the camera to see behind walls. I realize you don't have to use it, but I would rather see them spend their time making an actual great Thief game and not appeasing to the Xbros who will play the game for 3 days and then trade it in.

Snargelfargen
19-01-2012, 02:59 PM
While I agree with your point, I don't think labelling people who have xboxes as "Xbros" is particularly helpful to the conversation.

Smashbox
19-01-2012, 03:13 PM
So far today I've read the words consolefags, consoletards, and Xbros on this forum. What the hell?

Malawi Frontier Guard
19-01-2012, 03:21 PM
Being able to look around corners when you aren't even close to the edge is basically magic. In a game such as Thief, where you are trying to remain out of sight, edging to close to a corner should carry a suitable risk.

I agree that it should carry a risk to look around corners (for too long), but Thief 1 & 2 didn't have that either. Leaning around corners didn't make you any more visible than standing still out of view (unless you moved the mouse in a weird way while doing it). It was basically the same thing as moving the camera in a third-person game.

db1331
19-01-2012, 03:38 PM
So far today I've read the words consolefags, consoletards, and Xbros on this forum. What the hell?

I just need "Wiitards" and I'll get a BINGO with the "PC Elitist" free space.

Spider Jerusalem
19-01-2012, 04:33 PM
guys, let's put the number /inside/ the word!

how zany is that!

Snargelfargen
19-01-2012, 06:55 PM
I agree that it should carry a risk to look around corners (for too long), but Thief 1 & 2 didn't have that either. Leaning around corners didn't make you any more visible than standing still out of view (unless you moved the mouse in a weird way while doing it). It was basically the same thing as moving the camera in a third-person game.

You make a good point. Leaning around corners in general is sort of an absurd concept. Unless Garrett has a freakishly small forehead, people should see him when he looks around corners. I wouldn't mind if they added a chance of detection or even removed it from the game entirely and just had the player rely on sound and patches of darkness to scout around corners intelligently.

Edit: and a mirror on a stick seems like something Garrett would use as well.