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Rinox
21-01-2012, 02:28 AM
And absolutely loved it! I was honestly surprised to find this kind of writing in a game, albeit an old one. Planescape Torment had a similar effect on me (I played it relatively recently), but The Longest Journey had everything: coming of age, a wonderful universe, memorable characters, a (relatively) non-conventional story, great storytellling...

I was annoyed a bit by the classic adventure problems like not being able to progress before you breached subject X with character Y- I was never a big adventure player - but nothing a walkthrough couldn't solve.

Ragnar Tornquist was always a vague figure to me, but if this is his regular level of writing then I'm gonna start paying close attention to his games!

So, does anyone have any suggestions as to older games with similar writing? Is the sequel any good? Any input is welcomed. :-) I'm thinking Syberia, Gabriel Knight, etc

Malawi Frontier Guard
21-01-2012, 02:43 AM
But did you cry?

Rinox
21-01-2012, 02:55 AM
Alas, no. Though I did feel like a right sucker for standing up the douchey housemate and inadvertedly getting my best friend shot and badly injured.

Username
21-01-2012, 02:55 AM
I liked TLJ, but felt Dreamfall was a letdown. Looking forward to Dreamfall 2 if they ever make it.

Unfortunately, those are the only adventure games I've played.

thenagus
21-01-2012, 03:05 AM
Personally, I'd say Dreamfall is worth a try if you enjoyed TLJ. Gameplay is abysmal, but that's not the important part. Only game that's ever made me cry.

Rauten
21-01-2012, 03:49 AM
The gameplay in DreamFall really is quite subpar, but Ragnar's touch in storywriting is still there; if you enjoyed TLJ's story, DreamFall is worth a go.

Berzee
21-01-2012, 05:03 AM
Man, I hoped this was going to be a thread where I could commiserate with others who disliked TLJ and Dreamfall as much as I did! Ah well =P

Dreamfall is probably good if you enjoyed TLJ...the protagonist is a bit less wry, as far as I remember, and it comes from that strange time period where games were aiming for a kind of flawless graphical beauty that turned out...well, flawless. Clinically flawless =) I wonder what caused it? Maybe a coalescence of the state of 3d tech at the time, plus trying to fit the game onto the Xbox, but also in some ways being able to go further than before...leads to some games that look really good when you focus on what you're supposed to be looking at, but have this echo-y tomblike feeling and are missing realistic defects and incidental details. I didn't cry at Dreamfall and I was waiting for the story to get good all the way up until the ending, which I thought was stupid, but who knows what crabbyness I was harboring at the time for other reasons altogether? =P What I *do* remember throughout the game is that it gave me the same kind of enjoyable but weird feeling that I get when I walked through deserted underground hallways at my college long after most people had gone home.

squirrel
21-01-2012, 07:14 AM
Story is good, but Dreamfall doesn't have much gameplay to speak of. No puzzle, trivial actions. More of like a interactive movie. Story is superb though.

And stock for TLJ is hard to locate, no game store here stocks this game anymore.

Chevy
21-01-2012, 07:58 AM
And stock for TLJ is hard to locate, no game store here stocks this game anymore.

It's available on GOG for $9.99 of my Canadian dollars.

Althea
21-01-2012, 10:04 AM
I've got to second Dreamfall. It's not up to the standard of TLJ, as others have said, and Funcom incorporated a rather poor combat system (thankfully it's rarely needed) which lets it down more than anything else, but it's still certainly worth your time. If you buy a retail version, just make sure it's fully patched before you even run it. Most versions came with that version of StarForce, but if you run the latest US patch it strips the DRM.

There's a couple of other adventure games I'd recommend, or at least suggest you look into:
Keepsake - This game is crap, but in a great way. The puzzles are ridiculously obtuse, but it has a great Skip Puzzle tool which saves you a lot of headaches. It's worth it for the story, the soundtrack and the jaw-dropping (well, they were at one time, but I was still fairly stunned) pre-rendered backgrounds.

Still Life - Never finished this, never came close to finishing it, but what I played seemed alright. It's a mature game with quite a lot of... um... horror/thriller elements, so if you're easily scared then don't bother. But you play a detective, I think, and you've got to investigate a string of murders. I think the first got fairly good reviews, but the second is expensive and only available from a few places, so I'm holding out for GOG's release.

Syberia 1+2 - Not played these, but they're often mentioned in the same breath as TLJ in terms of similar games.

Gray Matter - The writing/VA isn't up to the level of TLJ, but it's not far behind. The puzzles, again, aren't as complex and you sometimes end up running around for that one clue, but I would definitely recommend it. The visuals are great, the soundtrack is great, and I should really finish it at some point.

Lambchops
21-01-2012, 10:17 AM
I can only add to the shoddy ccombat, shoddy stealth but fantastic story opinion od Dreamfall. As you enjoyed TLJ you will enjoy Dreamfall but it will make you frustrated that there isn't, and perhaps never will be, another sequel!

Also i'm going to throw Fahrenheit (or Indigo Prophecy in some parts of the world) out there. Gameplay wise it is a big bunch of quick time events but for the first two thirds it has a well constructed, compellling story and manages playing multiple characters rather well. It is renowned for going absolutely off the wall crazy in the final third of the game. Most people see this as a bad thing and held up to the rest of the game it's certainly a disappointment, but if you can change your mindset to a "so silly it's actually quite entertaining in a daft way" mentality (which I did) then you might just remember it fondly, with a shake of the head and a laugh.

Tei
21-01-2012, 10:18 AM
I loved it too. Very likeable characters.

Heliocentric
21-01-2012, 10:27 AM
Gemini Rue is probably the only adventure game that didn't have me reaching for gamefaqs/youtube, machinarium came close and screwed up with a puzzle where it dead ends and you can reset it by shutting down the game only, but otherwise it did well.

Emotionally I connected with grim fandango, but believe I had a FAQ close to hand.

Lambchops
21-01-2012, 10:37 AM
I love Grima Fandango so mucch that sometimes I think it goes without saying! So, er, yeah Grim Fandango.

The first time I played it I have a memory of using the Universal Hint System thing which started out with subtle (some would say obscure!) advice wherupon you press a button and until it eventually goes "oh for fuck's sake you imbecile this is what you do!" I think this may have happened to me on more than one occassion!

Flint
21-01-2012, 10:39 AM
Yeah I'm going to second Grim Fandango. It and TLJ are two of my favourite adventure games because of their brilliant writing.

You mentioned Gabriel Knight and I'm not sure if that means you've played them or not, but in case you haven't I'd recommend Gabriel Knight 3. The writing and character development are a lot more subtle but it achieves a lot with little; every character feels like someone who could be real (a caricature or two here and there forgiving) and as the game progresses you start feeling involved with them in a subtle way, just in time for the grand drama of the endgame. The infamous cat fur moustache puzzle aside the puzzles are excellent too, some of them quite massive brainteasers in a lovely way.

Althea
21-01-2012, 10:47 AM
Only problem with Grim Fandango is it's out of print and, unless you're lucky, most likely very expensive to get a copy of. :(

Kadayi
21-01-2012, 10:57 AM
But did you cry?

This is the important question tbh.

Flint
21-01-2012, 10:58 AM
TLJ never made me cry either, despite how amazing/heartstring-tugging it was.

Dreamfall, on the other hand, crushed my soul.

thegooseking
21-01-2012, 11:24 AM
I can only add to the shoddy ccombat, shoddy stealth but fantastic story opinion od Dreamfall. As you enjoyed TLJ you will enjoy Dreamfall but it will make you frustrated that there isn't, and perhaps never will be, another sequel!

There probably will be, but Ragnar TÝrnquist's only going to start making it after The Secret World is done. At least, that's what he said last time I checked, though admittedly that was a while ago.

Althea
21-01-2012, 11:39 AM
TLJ never made me cry either, despite how amazing/heartstring-tugging it was.

Dreamfall, on the other hand, crushed my soul.
Same. Dreamfall brought me the closest to crying over a game.


There probably will be, but Ragnar TÝrnquist's only going to start making it after The Secret World is done. At least, that's what he said last time I checked, though admittedly that was a while ago.
Dreamfall Chapters *should* supposedly be out by the end of 2013 according to Ragnar, but I don't know if development has started. I wouldn't be surprised if Funcom were starting it around now as TSW's development will be ramping down a lot as it's released in about three months.

Jiiiiim
21-01-2012, 12:31 PM
TLJ had some of the most illogical, ridiculous puzzles I've encountered in an adventure game (which is saying something). The amount of times I was referencing a walkthrough sapped most of my enjoyment from it. I appreciated how Dreamfall removed all of the challenge while keeping the story and so much prefer that >_>

thenagus
21-01-2012, 02:20 PM
I also prefer what they did with dreamfall. In an interview on RPS (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2008/08/20/ragnar-tornquist-on-dreamfall-faith/) from ages ago, Ragnar says:



On the difficulty level, our goal was to make the game very simple. Because, in our analysis, half the people who played TLJ stopped at a certain point during the game because it was quite difficult, and it was quite long. So we said, letís make it short, letís make it easy. Letís make the focus of this to tell the story, so people should get through it in ten hours and have fun with it and never have to struggle with anything.



the story has to work, the dialogue has to work, and the characters have to work. And everything else is gravy.

What other games are designed with this principle in mind?

One thing I always liked about Dreamfall is that there is so much story crammed into a relatively short space of time. With one or two exceptions, everything you do is advancing or serving the story in some way. There is (almost) no filler gameplay. I think that's great, especially for those of us who don't have a huge amount of time to play games.

Ignorant Texan
21-01-2012, 03:34 PM
TLJ may have been the right game at the right time for me. It's languid pacing was perfect when there was nothing else to do because it was 110 degrees here for several months. I only refered to the walk-through two or three times, so I didn't find the puzzles as mind-achingly obtuse as many other 'classic' adventure games. It served the function of a really long and absorbing book. April is one of the few video game characters I've become attached to, and seems to be a realized being. Unlike the digitized meat-puppets that are all too standard.

So, not having played Dreamfall(GoG needs to add this), and hopefully not carrying the book analogy to absurd lengths, is Dreamfall fair to describe as a graphic novel, to TLJ's series of graphic novels?

Althea
21-01-2012, 03:37 PM
So, not having played Dreamfall(GoG needs to add this), and hopefully not carrying the book analogy to absurd lengths, is Dreamfall fair to describe as a graphic novel, to TLJ's series of graphic novels?
Eh. I'd say if TLJ was a graphic novel, Dreamfall would be an interactive storybook.

JohnnyMaverik
21-01-2012, 03:46 PM
I cried at the end of Dreamfall. Definitely worth it for the writing alone... which is good because the gameplay is mostly crap. Looked ok for it's time though.

One of the best endings ever, but sadly somewhat of a cliffhanger... and then they started making MMO's -_-

**shakes fist @ Funcom**

Edit: If you are going to get Dreamfall then get a digital copy as the boxed releases all suffered from a bad case of DRM, namely Starforce, which means that on Vista and Windows 7 systems, the game is un-runnable. The Steam release runs fine on Windows 7 and I presume Vista, not sure where else it's available digitally but I presume all the digital releases are the same, drmless version.

Althea
21-01-2012, 03:57 PM
Edit: If you are going to get Dreamfall then get a digital copy as the boxed releases all suffered from a bad case of DRM, namely Starforce, which means that on Vista and Windows 7 systems, the game is un-runnable. The Steam release runs fine on Windows 7 and I presume Vista, not sure where else it's available digitally but I presume all the digital releases are the same, drmless version.
I'm on Win 7 and it plays fine.

As I said in an earlier post, run the US patch on a(ny English-language - can't confirm it for non-English releases) retail copy before you start Dreamfall for the first time, and it works fine. If you run Dreamfall without having applied that patch first, you will be teabagged by StarForce.

Drake Sigar
21-01-2012, 04:16 PM
Dreamfall is LJ's equal in many ways. Just be aware that it's basically part 1 of 2 (and we may never get the second part), ending all points of the story on cliffhangers.

Xercies
21-01-2012, 04:42 PM
I found Dreamfall really well if you did actually consider it an atmospheric immersive storybook then a game. It was really pleasant I have to say and except for one really rubbish door puzzle I didn't really find it a disappointing gaming experience. Maybe I have lower standards.

I am really saddened though that we will probably never get the second half of the story though, there was so many cliffhangers and unanswered questions to it and the world was so great that like Shenmue 3 my heart really wants a continuation.

Althea
21-01-2012, 04:52 PM
I think we will get the next game (Dreamfall: Chapters). Ragnar's still talking about it, TLJ is getting ported to iOS this year - Funcom aren't giving it up yet.

Heck, Ragnar's even mentioned a fourth title - The Longest Journey 2.

Yachmenev
21-01-2012, 06:17 PM
Gray Matter. Recently released, absolutely delightful. You have to look pass the ugly 3d models and their lousy animations, and get used to some quirks in the interface, but other than that itīs a really fine game. I enjoyed this much more than The Longest Journey.

Dexter
21-01-2012, 07:35 PM
I personally preffered Dreamfall to TLJ in about any way, but yeah I agree with others that you should try Grim Fandango if you haven't yet :P
My favourite Adventure of all time is (and will unfortunately likely remain) Simon the Sorcerer II xD

Ho-hum... thinking of Adventures with great stories...
Sanitarium
Grim Fandango
Blade Runner
The Dig
Beneath a Steel Sky
Discworld Noir (I think :O)

Nova
21-01-2012, 10:05 PM
Yeah, the gameplay of Dreamfall sucks, but it's still worth playing for the story.

Games with similar story... that's difficult.
I would add the first two Broken Sword games to the suggestions.
The Blackwell Series is also very good.
The first Gabriel Knight is still a great game despite its age.

Tei
21-01-2012, 10:12 PM
I never finished dreamfall :(

I am bad at videogames, and got stuck on some part where a dog protect a door. I come to the door, and the dog kills me.

Althea
21-01-2012, 10:14 PM
I never finished dreamfall :(

I am bad at videogames, and got stuck on some part where a dog protect a door. I come to the door, and the dog kills me.
That puzzle is kind of easy, IIRC, but it did trip me up a few times.

Rinox
21-01-2012, 10:30 PM
Thanks for all the suggestions everyone! It would appear that I need to play Dreamfall soon then (the patched version), and brush up on some old classics (Grim Fandango, Gabriel Knight, Broken Sword etc). I may also try Grey Matter, seems interesting.

I actually own both Gemini Rue & Blackwell Trilogy from one of the many indie bundles, so that's cool. :-) I checked steam for Dreamfall and it's still 20 €. Dang. I could have sworn I only paid a few € for TLJ. And apparently gog.com has TLJ but not Dreamfall. I'll have a look around on other DD websites.

Don't really mind if the gameplay is a bit clunky if the writing is of a similar level. The thing that annoyed me the most in TLJ was not so much the sometimes a little obscure puzzles, but the unskippable sloooowww character animations and the constant running through 5-6 screens to get from A to B. But I guess that's a general problem for older games (and consoles, in case of the former).

buemba
21-01-2012, 10:56 PM
Glad to see so many people give Dreamfall its due since I always thought the consensus was that it was a disappointment.

Granted at least part of the reason why it resonated so much with me is because my personal life mirrored Zoe's at the beginning of the game so much it was actually a bit unsettling. Playing through the game and seeing her grow as a character helped me get out of my funk in a way that still amazes me, and even now listening to the game's soundtrack stirs something in me.

But yeah, the gameplay is at best mediocre. Almost makes me wish Tornquist continued the series in a different format like animated shorts or graphic novels.


Dreamfall is LJ's equal in many ways. Just be aware that it's basically part 1 of 2 (and we may never get the second part), ending all points of the story on cliffhangers.

Sure Dreamfall left some important story threads up in the air, but I wouldn't call it incomplete in the way Beyond Good & Evil is. The main story (The one involving Zoe and Faith) wrapped up very nicely, so even if we never got Chapters I wouldn't feel gypped. Well, I would, but not because I was sold half of a game.

Kevin
21-01-2012, 11:41 PM
The game had good writing, I'll give it that. But it also finally completely poisoned adventure games to me. It made me say: "Fuck you, Funcom, for thinking any sane human being would be able to come up with the solutions that fly in the face of causality to your moon-logic puzzles."

BenWah
21-01-2012, 11:43 PM
TLJ had some of the most illogical, ridiculous puzzles I've encountered in an adventure game (which is saying something). The amount of times I was referencing a walkthrough sapped most of my enjoyment from it.

I thought the same thing! Longest piece of crap!

vinraith
22-01-2012, 12:53 AM
How vital is it to remember TLJ clearly before playing Dreamfall? I played TLJ back when it was released, enjoyed the story, setting, and character enormously, but the puzzles were awful. I can't see slogging back through it, but do have a copy of Dreamfall lying around that I've never played...

Birdman Tribe Leader
22-01-2012, 01:02 AM
Loooved Longest Journey. Largely disliked Dreamfall. Writing and voice acting were still very well done, but the points where you were controlling a character were terrible. Beyond the awful stealth, combat, and fetch quest puzzles, I thought all the environments were much too sparse and never felt at all like real places, and I did think the story went a little too much all over the place and felt disjointed.

And does no one remember that horrible section underground escaping from those monster guys?

I still want to see the next chapter, but I was mostly disappointed by Dreamfall.

As for other great adventures, I'm partial to King's Quest 6 (not so story-heavy, but a really beautiful game; head and shoulders above most of Sierra's output) and Conquests of the Longbow (still my favorite Robin Hood story in any medium).

Vinraith: I don't think you need to remember much of TLJ at all. Most of it is a brand-new story that doesn't rely too much on the old one. Most things you might need to remember are recapped, I think. Maybe read a TLJ plot summary if you really don't want to miss anything.

Heliocentric
22-01-2012, 01:53 AM
I thought the same thing! Longest piece of crap!

I loved the story up to a point, then it asked me to read books, with illegible low res fonts.

Not a clue, gave up right afterwards.

Nova
22-01-2012, 09:54 AM
@vinraith
I played Dreamfall first. It's been a while, but I don't remember having a problem understanding most of the story.
It also thrives a bit on not having all the information.

Althea
22-01-2012, 11:03 AM
How vital is it to remember TLJ clearly before playing Dreamfall? I played TLJ back when it was released, enjoyed the story, setting, and character enormously, but the puzzles were awful. I can't see slogging back through it, but do have a copy of Dreamfall lying around that I've never played...
TLJ is one series, Dreamfall is a second. They link and intertwine to some degree but completely remembering TLJ will perhaps only help you in a very few - if any - situations, and even then they're likely to be just little references to TLJ.

Jiiiiim
22-01-2012, 12:36 PM
Oh god I just remembered the unskippable "Guy getting a book" animation in TLJ that took about eight hours.

Oh god.

On-topic once more, I've just played Ben There, Dan That and Time Gentlemen, Please (http://sekritforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=3305&start=91), and though they're a lot less serious than the names being tossed around, they do have exceptionally good dialogue. Worth a look.

vinraith
22-01-2012, 05:01 PM
TLJ is one series, Dreamfall is a second. They link and intertwine to some degree but completely remembering TLJ will perhaps only help you in a very few - if any - situations, and even then they're likely to be just little references to TLJ.

Oh, I'd been under the impression it was a direct sequel. Thanks for the clarification, and to everone for the advice. It sounds like I should just try Dreamfall and not worry about it.

Althea
22-01-2012, 05:03 PM
Oh, I'd been under the impression it was a direct sequel. Thanks for the clarification, and to everone for the advice. It sounds like I should just try Dreamfall and not worry about it.
It's more interpretation than anything, but with Ragnar having mentioned Dreamfall: Chapters and The Longest Journey 2, it seems most likely that they're two different series with massive links (like Halo 3 and ODST or whatever).

Nova
22-01-2012, 06:38 PM
Massive links would be a massive understatement. I would guess that some of the things that happen are rather different timelines/times.
According to Ragnar the whole story is more or less set in stone. I really hope that Dreamfall Chapters happens soon, but I guess we won't hear anything before 2013.

magnolia_fan
23-01-2012, 04:24 PM
I agree Dreamfall sometimes feels like an interactive movie, but it's a good game and I liked it a lot. Besides, you get to know what happened after the events of TLJ.

The Undreaming is unchained