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Nullkigan
03-06-2011, 12:22 PM
http://www.herosquad.org/wgcac.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/85130/staysafe/2011-09-11_00018.jpg


The average ARPS session plays like a mix of Apocalypse Now, Four Lions and Arrested Development.

People of the Shotgun, let us play this manshooter together!

Arma 2 (http://www.bistudio.com/index.php/english/company/developers-blog/129-arma-2-the-name-tale) is in the grand style of the original Operation Flashpoint. At the core, it's an infantry simulator with huge draw distances and no loading between areas. However, it's also possible to drive tanks, pilot jets, crash choppers and plan glorious artillery barrages.

The RPS group is NOT a MilSim community, or even particularly strict. You won't be shot for failing to salute, moving slightly out of formation, or having to go change the nappies of your newborn. Many of our missions feature revive scripts so that an unlucky wing hit doesn't leave you sitting on your thumbs for several hours.

We do ask that you play politely and maturely and respect the fun of others. In exchange, we'll take some bullets for you.


New people, attention!
Are you interested in ArmA2 multiplayer but feel discouraged by whatever reason? Read this encourago-post, and be encouraged.

I started playing ArmA2 a few months ago thanks to the RPS Arma people, and wrote about my newbie experiences elsewhere. Imma copypaste some of it here, to encourage you to join us.

ArmA2 can appear a scary game for new people. It's portrayed as a simulator, and it has so much stuff! Tens of weapons with various attachments, tons of vehicles, aircraft, terminology, abbreviations... All seemingly different, all with their own quirks, not to mention all the quirks in the engine and the various gamemodes and missions.

Enemies are often just a few, hard-to-distinguish pixels on the screen, and you can die after getting shot once. I still remember how confusing and unapproachable it all felt from a distance when I started.

Hot tip: You don't need to know most of this stuff to enjoy the game.The necessary skills to play ArmA2 online with us goes something like this:

Walking
Shooting
Listening to and trying to do what your fireteam leader (FTL) tells you
Asking questions


That's it. Seriously, if you have done the infantry tutorials, you're golden. Everything else you can learn as you go, just by the magical power of asking questions and trying things. The missions we play always have a place for bog-standard riflemen, who don't need to know how to do anything special. You have an FTL and teammates who know the game and can help with any problems.

This also applies to Tactical Tuesdays (every Tuesday around 19:30 UK time) and Folk Sunday sessions (look for posts by comrade Fer [[ed: or the details at the bottom of this post]]). I heartily recommend both events to new people, as all you're expected to do, is to try to do as you're told. In return you get a glimpse of what ArmA2 can be at its best.

You may also feel that your skill / experience level is not adequate, and fear that you can potentially ruin other peoples' fun by sucking at the game. Good news: that's not how it works. ArmA2 is not a frag contest, and we are not a serious group of milsimmers. This is not Serious Business. We don't expect you to make ArmA2 your second day job. We don't play to win, we play to have fun. And sometimes the best fun is to die horribly.

Any questions? Read the first post of this thread, and if questions persist post here, or ask in the RPS Steam chat.


FURTHER DETAILS CAN BE FOUND IN OUR COOL NEW SUBFORUM (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?12-Arma-Forum)

soupeh
03-06-2011, 12:33 PM
I'd love to come and play! I am new to the whole online of ArmA2 though (played a lot of singleplayer though). I used to play OpFlash online back in the day but it's hard to remember how to act! Look forward to joining you if will accept a newbie.

Grizzly
03-06-2011, 12:38 PM
Oh rooster! I geuss I have to delete that other thread now :P.

StrangLove
03-06-2011, 12:42 PM
I'd love to come and play! I am new to the whole online of ArmA2 though (played a lot of singleplayer though). I used to play OpFlash online back in the day but it's hard to remember how to act! Look forward to joining you if will accept a newbie.

We always accept new players, so feel free to drop in some time.

Joseph-Sulphur
03-06-2011, 12:57 PM
For the love of Mk 17 EGLM RCO sticky this!

Bodge
03-06-2011, 01:05 PM
Many people state the reason they have not played much arma to be that they;

a) Had no one sensible to play with

b) Were put off by the learning curve.

For all the jokes and jibes enjoyment of the mission comes first and you can always get a good mission with the ARPS community. Secondly we have a wide range of experience with regards to ArmA so it makes it a perfect place to learn, don't bother worrying about playing the single player, get used to the basic controls then jump on with us.

It should probably also be said that we do ask you to exercise a mild amount of restraint on voice chat when the play count is high, lots of people talking does not help much.

Batolemaeus
03-06-2011, 01:12 PM
I might be pestering you this evening.
I will gladly serve as distraction while you guys do important stuff.

Unaco
03-06-2011, 03:02 PM
For all the jokes and jibes enjoyment of the mission comes first and you can always get a good mission with the ARPS community.

Unless Joseph Sulphur is present. The base cur, the lowest of men... he knows no honour, no loyalty, no decency! The only dedication he shows is to his own self-interest.

fer
03-06-2011, 04:29 PM
The Third International Fighting Brigade of Takistan in the name of Che Guevara (aka Folk (http://www.ferstaberinde.com/folk/invite/)) welcomes all RPS comrades to the struggle for a socialist agrarian utopia in Takistan. Minimal ArmA2 experience is necessary, and you won't need any addons - just a copy of Combined Operations. More missions in a Folk session will be non-respawn, but they also tend to be quite short so nobody spends too long being dead.

All you really need to understand is this: the man with the tractor drives, the one without follows. When the man with the tractor is shot in the face, the one without takes the wheel.

Joseph-Sulphur
03-06-2011, 06:03 PM
Unless Joseph Sulphur is present. The base cur, the lowest of men... he knows no honour, no loyalty, no decency! The only dedication he shows is to his own self-interest.
I regret nothing, whilst you fools plummet to your death in a burning Seahawk I will be hiding in a bush, ready to start my new life a Chernarussian organised crime boss.

StrangLove
03-06-2011, 06:34 PM
Rule 1 of ARPS is never let Alex Bakke fly.

Rule 2 is that you really must tell as many people about ARPS as possible, it's possibly the best RPS social club that there is.

Rule 3 is that all soldiers who attempt to save civilians will be executed by firing squad/commisar

Bodge
03-06-2011, 06:42 PM
I regret nothing, whilst you fools plummet to your death in a burning Seahawk I will be hiding in a bush, ready to start my new life a Chernarussian organised crime boss.

My Seahawk does not plummet.

StrangLove
03-06-2011, 07:23 PM
My Seahawk does not plummet.

It arcs gracefully through the sky before it's magnificent finale - A fireball rivalling hiroshima in size.

Poindexter
03-06-2011, 07:41 PM
What American RPSers are interested in playing regularly? I know that for me (living at -6 GMT) it's hard to play with all the regular players on weekday evenings. How many are interested in setting up North American-friendly play times too?

Alex Bakke
03-06-2011, 07:45 PM
Rule 1 of ARPS is never let Alex Bakke fly.



"Oh Hello I'm stranglove an- OH NO I'VE STALLED THE A-10 TEN SECONDS AFTER TAKING OFF WAH WAH"

StrangLove
03-06-2011, 08:15 PM
"Oh Hello I'm stranglove an- OH NO I'VE STALLED THE A-10 TEN SECONDS AFTER TAKING OFF WAH WAH"

I was on a ground attack run WITH MY SWORD.

sinister agent
04-06-2011, 06:19 AM
For all the jokes and jibes enjoyment of the mission comes first and you can always get a good mission with the ARPS community. Secondly we have a wide range of experience with regards to ArmA so it makes it a perfect place to learn, don't bother worrying about playing the single player, get used to the basic controls then jump on with us.

As someone who only has a few weeks of play under his belt, having jumped right into ARPS after doing about 2 missions from the single player game, I can confirm this.

I also recommend setting up a firing range using the mission editor so you can get used to the ranges and that. It's dead easy, all drop down menus and no scripting or anything needed. Just set up tonnes of friendly infantry and vehicles at various ranges, a player controllable infantry person nearby, and a load of weapon crates. Play around to your heart's content, and you'll soon get a feel for the common weapon types, how many shots you can get off accurately, and what ranges to shoot at. This will do wonders for your confidence in multiplayer, as you can then simply follow the group round and still get an occasional kill, even if the bigger picture isn't clear yet.

Grizzly
04-06-2011, 10:34 AM
I was on a ground attack run WITH MY SWORD.

Wait.

You can stall an A-10?

Wolfenswan
04-06-2011, 10:54 AM
If you're new and confused why your big boomsticks and/or sniping rifles don't hit anything, be sure to check these guides for aiming with AT/AA (http://www.ciahome.net/forum/index.php?topic=2368.0) and rifles (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12347) (ignore the MilSim talk in the latter).


Wait.

You can stall an A-10?

"Engine Off" in the Action Menu is my best guess.

Feet
04-06-2011, 11:30 AM
I must hop back on with you gents at some point, enjoyed the few games of which I partook before Brink came out.

y2rich
04-06-2011, 12:27 PM
Is Operation Arrowhead worth picking up then? Only just got my system up and running again after some hardware issues and was looking to get back into ARMA2.

Unaco
04-06-2011, 12:32 PM
Operation Arrowhead is, I think, the minimum that we play with. Much better would be ArmA2 and Operation Arrowhead, installed on the same machine and loaded together in what is known as Combined Ops. I'd say getting a combined ops install is definitely worth it... just for the full range of our multiplayering.

y2rich
04-06-2011, 12:35 PM
Aye I already have ARMA2 so would just need the addon. Anywhere to pick it up cheap or do I need to get it through Steam?

Unaco
04-06-2011, 12:44 PM
I think, but I'm not certain, that anywere you can find it for cheap should be good. I picked up all of mine on STEAM during sales, so I have everything together and haven't had to do anything as far as command lines and launchers go to get everything working properly. When you install Operation Arrowhead, I think, you 'tell it' about your ArmA2 install, then run OA (as combined Ops loading all the ArmA2 stuff), or you get a launcher program that does it for you. But, I don't think there is any problem with having ArmA2 from one place and OA from somewere else.

Someone who has maybe got CO working this way could probably tell you more definitely though.

Nullkigan
04-06-2011, 01:22 PM
If you have A2 on Steam, you can actually copy and paste it from the steamapps dir to another place on your HDD for manual patching. There might be a slight registry tweak involved, but A2 is surprisingly free of registry entries. Just the CD key and install dir if memory serves. You can then install OA into the same directory, if you bought it from somewhere else.

If you buy OA from Steam and have A2 on steam, after you've run A2 once OA should launch as Combined Ops (or at least load the A2 content whenever you run the game).

If you buy OA from Steam and have A2 from somewhere else, things get a little more tricky, and I'd have to dig up some posts from somewhere else to help you out. I think you can copy and paste stuff into the A2 dir, but I'm not completely certain. You'd also have to do the registry fix.

Gamestracker (http://www.gamestracker.com/arma-2-operation-arrowhead-pc.htm) says that the expansion can be had for as little as £12.85 at retail, or if you prefer a digital download you can go to SprocketIdea (http://www.sprocketidea.com/joomla/index.php?page=shop.product_details&product_id=32&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=2&vmcchk=1&Itemid=2), the store owned by the devs and get it for £13.30. I myself have retail A2 and Sprocket OA, and it works perfectly. The Sprocket version is literally a copy of the files on the installation DVD, plus a CD key. No mounting, custom installers, custom downloaders, etc. required.

WARNING: If you buy the game on Steam, whenever a patch is released steam will redownload the entire game! If you have limited bandwidth, and don't want to bother manually moving the files out of the Steam directory you may wish to avoid Steam!

y2rich
04-06-2011, 01:25 PM
I have A2 from Steam at the moment. Might just wait to see if it pops up in a Steam sale anytime soon.

Wolfenswan
04-06-2011, 02:20 PM
There are several arma 2 launchers that turn the whole CO thing into a cakewalk.

I prefer the one made by Spirited Machine (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8241). You simply tell it the exes' locations, check "launch combined ops" and you're good to go. It comes with more nifty features and stable addon-support.

Ansob
04-06-2011, 03:16 PM
There are several arma 2 launchers that turn the whole CO thing into a cakewalk.

Or you could just install OA into your A2 directory and presto! Instant CO!

Also: so, about that I44 campaign... :P

StrangLove
04-06-2011, 03:34 PM
Or you could just install OA into your A2 directory and presto! Instant CO!

But you still have to write modlines for addons and maps, wheras launchers will do it for you!

egg651
04-06-2011, 03:35 PM
My Steam copy of OA gives me the option to launch Combined Operations when I start it, and it works fine with my disk copy of ArmA 2.

Unaco
04-06-2011, 03:39 PM
My Steam copy of OA gives me the option to launch Combined Operations when I start it, and it works fine with my disk copy of ArmA 2.

I get that option as well, with my Steam copy of OA... but I have a Steam copy of ArmA2 as well. If it works for a Steam copy of OA and 'other' copy of ArmA2, that should make things somewhat simpler for some folks.

washington
04-06-2011, 03:40 PM
Also: so, about that I44 campaign... :P

Finally done with all them major papers and essays! It's not forgotten, it'll be on soon enough. Not exactly sure when though... The first mission is probably 50-60% done (had a fit and remade it - now with somewhat historical accuracy!). On a side note, very interesting battle that, in Hürtgen. Been reading up on it and watched a horrendously bad movie aboot it. Recommended reading material for the bored and bewildered.

egg651
04-06-2011, 03:57 PM
By the way - Null, this might be useful for your already incredibly informative forst post:
http://arma2.swec.se/server/image/148381

Bodge
04-06-2011, 05:00 PM
sexeh times egg.

GraveyardJimmy
04-06-2011, 05:45 PM
Finally done with all them major papers and essays! It's not forgotten, it'll be on soon enough. Not exactly sure when though... The first mission is probably 50-60% done (had a fit and remade it - now with somewhat historical accuracy!). On a side note, very interesting battle that, in Hürtgen. Been reading up on it and watched a horrendously bad movie aboot it. Recommended reading material for the bored and bewildered.

Awesome! :D Glad to see its still in the pipeline.

Joseph-Sulphur
04-06-2011, 05:51 PM
...
Am I still in charge?

StrangLove
04-06-2011, 06:07 PM
...
Am I still in charge?

Well, due to the campaign's increased historical accuracy, you'll be required to change your name to Richard Winters, but if you comply, yes!

ShowMeTheMonkey
04-06-2011, 06:15 PM
Right, just wondered if anyone uses the "Copy my stance" mod? I'm trying to get it to work and it's doing my head in. I install it right, but when I start it says it requires "Extended event handlers". I installed that, then it asks for "CAWeapons_3". Trying to find that with no luck. Is this an endless loop?

Wolfenswan
04-06-2011, 06:29 PM
Well, due to the campaign's increased historical accuracy, you'll be required to change your name to Richard Winters, but if you comply, yes!

and we have enough Germans for adversarial games. /bad joke


Right, just wondered if anyone uses the "Copy my stance" mod? I'm trying to get it to work and it's doing my head in. I install it right, but when I start it says it requires "Extended event handlers". I installed that, then it asks for "CAWeapons_3". Trying to find that with no luck. Is this an endless loop?

do you have the Community Base Addons installed?

StrangLove
04-06-2011, 07:05 PM
"CAWeapons_3"

Do you have combined ops/a combination of OA and A2? It's just that every time someone trys to connect to a CO mission without A2 it flashes a message about CAweapons_1/2/3.

ShowMeTheMonkey
04-06-2011, 07:18 PM
Yup, got both. Can't nail what's going wrong.

Wolfenswan
04-06-2011, 08:24 PM
use JSRS instad

Berlin
04-06-2011, 08:52 PM
Don't crucify me, please, but I've never really played ArmA and I'm going to get it for 6$ in two days time and I wonder how much time does it take to get a grip of this thing? Is it really as hard as people say it is?

Batolemaeus
04-06-2011, 09:20 PM
Don't crucify me, please, but I've never really played ArmA and I'm going to get it for 6$ in two days time and I wonder how much time does it take to get a grip of this thing? Is it really as hard as people say it is?

Depends. I tend to play something that does not require me to use anything that can kill people (read: my own team). Medics are always needed I guess.

Kyndylan
04-06-2011, 09:26 PM
Don't crucify me, please, but I've never really played ArmA and I'm going to get it for 6$ in two days time and I wonder how much time does it take to get a grip of this thing? Is it really as hard as people say it is?

I can't speak for difficulty or anything, as I don't own ArmA...but I'm interested in getting it, and was just wondering where you found it at $6? Of course, chances are it won't be available over here in Blighty, but thought I'd check...

Berlin
04-06-2011, 09:41 PM
I can't speak for difficulty or anything, as I don't own ArmA...but I'm interested in getting it, and was just wondering where you found it at $6? Of course, chances are it won't be available over here in Blighty, but thought I'd check...

Well, there's this gaming mag in Poland, CD-Action, and it's just giving it as a bonus to the magazine this month (http://www.cdaction.pl/news-19680/zawartosc-cd-action-spec-12011.html) along with some paper RPG system, everything for $6 along with the magazine. Last month there was Resident Evil 5, Mythos, Sam & Max ep1 and GT Racing and the month before Torchlight etc.

Kyndylan
04-06-2011, 10:19 PM
Well, there's this gaming mag in Poland, CD-Action, and it's just giving it as a bonus to the magazine this month (http://www.cdaction.pl/news-19680/zawartosc-cd-action-spec-12011.html) along with some paper RPG system, everything for $6 along with the magazine. Last month there was Resident Evil 5, Mythos, Sam & Max ep1 and GT Racing and the month before Torchlight etc.

Wow! Alright for some... I'll just have to hang on for a decent offer over here. Hopefully Steam will come up trumps, but I think I missed it fairly recently, so I'm not holding much hope. Maybe I'll jump on board with ArmA 3, as and when, but that'll probably need a new computer as well!

Bodge
04-06-2011, 11:07 PM
As I mentioned earlier if you come play with us you will pick up the basics very easily. The more techinical stuff takes a bit of learning but it is no different to any other shooter.

Grizzly
05-06-2011, 09:04 AM
The thing where it becomes different is the Do it Yourself approach Arma more or less needs. There's some missions included by default, but they re not very special. There's, however, tons of stuff avialable to play with. You just need someone to put that stuff to use. That's, for example, ARPS.

GraveyardJimmy
05-06-2011, 10:36 AM
The thing where it becomes different is the Do it Yourself approach Arma more or less needs. There's some missions included by default, but they re not very special. There's, however, tons of stuff avialable to play with. You just need someone to put that stuff to use. That's, for example, ARPS.

Can we please play that mission with the inkspots intro again, Grizzly has a beautiful singing voice and I enjoyed being serenaded.

ShowMeTheMonkey
05-06-2011, 10:50 AM
Bump for Grizzly voice!

Bodge
05-06-2011, 11:16 AM
Add to this please https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar7RUGCZ5dFTdGNlckhFWFdRaGRHTkVOWDZESktxU EE&hl=en_US&authkey=CP_B2esE

StrangLove
05-06-2011, 12:28 PM
Can we please play that mission with the inkspots intro again, Grizzly has a beautiful singing voice and I enjoyed being serenaded.

I missed Grizzly's singing? Awww maaaan.

fer
05-06-2011, 12:32 PM
Reminder: Folk session is tonight (Sunday 05 June) at 19:30 UK (20:30 European). As ever, all RPS comrades are welcome and if we get the numbers we'll run Incohate Spatula. Details of how to connect to the Folk servers are in the OP of this thread. For collective farms!

GraveyardJimmy
05-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Add to this please https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ar7RUGCZ5dFTdGNlckhFWFdRaGRHTkVOWDZESktxU EE&hl=en_US&authkey=CP_B2esE

I would, but I cant remember the name of the mission. It had an awesome music intro and was named something like hinds and alligators. Bot times we tried enemies spawned in the base and kamikazed the helicopters we were supposed to protect. It may have been possible but you need to be aware from the start and able to take out the helicopters almost instantly, then move quickly to support the MI-8s so they dont get AA hitting them.

I edited the sheet, maybe someone could clarify all my (?) notes.

Unaco
05-06-2011, 02:12 PM
The one with The Inkspots wasn't Hinds and Alligators.

GraveyardJimmy
05-06-2011, 02:13 PM
The one with The Inkspots wasn't Hinds and Alligators.

No, I was adding the hinds and alligators one to the spreadsheet because we tried it twice and it ended in mission failure, even when we knew what was coming.

egg651
05-06-2011, 02:18 PM
I think I should reiterate a couple of things that don't seem exactly clear to those looking to get in on some ArmA with the RPS crew:

The minimum for play on the RPS server is ArmA 2: Operation Arrowhead. However, it is highly reccommended that you own Combined Operations (both the original ArmA 2 and Operation Arrowhead) as it is necessary for a large number of our missions.
ArmA 2 is not the impenetrable clusterfudge of a game that some people make it out to be. At first, the controls list can seem daunting; but once you get the basics from the in built tutorials - i.e general movement, aiming and using the scroll wheel action menu - you should be fine to hop on to multiplayer and join us.
If there's anything you don't understand whilst playing, or you get cut off/left behind by the main force, don't be afraid to speak up. We don't bite... mostly.
We aren't a super hardcore elite bunch of players. You won't hear anyone saying that they're "Oscar Mike" or somesuch nonsensical bollocks. Not there that there wont be any nonsensical bollocks, but that's just Alex.


I hope that's cleared a few things about us up a bit... If you have any other questions, then this is the place to ask, as someone far more knowledgeable than me will likely be able to answer them.

Edit: I should also note that the best way to find people playing ArmA and join in is probably the RPS steam group chat.

Edit Edit: This is really late but:

I was on a ground attack run WITH MY SWORD.
<audio src="http://dl.dropbox.com/u/14153265/Rvb%20Bowm%20Chicka%20Wow_14.mp3" controls preload> </audio>

Bodge
05-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Or read the OP

oldmanbob
05-06-2011, 06:42 PM
Hi. Dropping my head in to point out I exist and can be contacted for serveradmin-y stuff, although you won't see me ingame that often at the moment.

fer
05-06-2011, 11:59 PM
Cross-posting from the Folk AAR thread for tonight ([Sun] 05 June 2011):


Missions:
The Takedown
Valley RE
Incohate Spatula
Comrades, we ran out of space on the server after Valley RE, and had to switch to the RPS server for our final mission because the playercount was in the mid-20s. Staff at the Bureau of Server Capacity Planning will be ... liquidated. On the other hand, it was a hell of a turnout, thanks largely to the comrades from RPS, and some good fun was had by all, I think.

:hist101:

P.S. Given that tonight featured more revive/CASEVAC functionality than before, I would love feedback from the comrades as to how this influenced (or didn't) their enjoyment.

The Takedown

- Aziz: Jo

After last week's experience with this mission, we decided to give BLUFOR a grace period at the start of the mission, with comrade Joseph/Sulphur holding station at his starting point for 2 minutes before setting off for the city. Our plan was simple: Jo would drive up to the south of the city, then switch places with comrade Headspace, who would drive the car around as a decoy target. Things well for us. For BLUFOR ... not so much.

One of the sympathisers in the city (Liqourish?) had spawned without a weapon, and I was on my way to meet him and check that his clothes would allow him to pass as a civilian. However, before I could make the RV a BLUFOR Littlebird touched down in a compound to the north of the Mosque. One of our chaps was already on the scene, and as I got into a nearby firing position I could see 3-4 BLUFOR soldiers prone on the ground immediately around the stationary bird. With my unknown comrade drawing their fire, I had ample time to execute them (and to be fair, I needed it, since my MP5 appeared only to wound on the first hit). We had taken out at least 50% of the BLUFOR force, and in the meantime Jo has made it to the safety of the Mosque. Teas and cakes were served in whatever the mosque equivalent is of a vestry.

:coolbert:

Valley RE

- Delta FTL: Stranglove
|- AR: Mort
|- AAR: Fer
|- RPG: Egg

Valley was made with the mission stub from the current competition (http://www.ferstaberinde.com/folk/forum/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=294), but I had changed the location to the wonderfully rocky Naygul valley in the north-west of Takistan. Grizzly had stepped up to take CO and his plan was simple: the platoon (which was at full-strength with four full fireteams and complete CO and DC elements) would advance down the valley in a wedge formation. My FT, Delta, was tasked with being the left-most element, up high on the side of the valley. Stranlove led us on, and from the moment we entered the valley proper, we were engaged.

The funny thing about the valley is that, despite being chock full of boulders and pools, there are actually very few distinct features to use as reference points when calling out contacts. So it's hard to impart the details of each separate firefight, because they all merged into eachother. It was like being on a slow-moving conveyor-belt that carried the platoon down the twisting valley at about the same speed as an airport baggage carousel. The firing rarely stopped, though I suspect things were more intense for the elements at the foot of the valley. At one point some JIP'd players flew a Huey right down the valley, but mistook smoke marking an enemy position for a safe LZ. Unaco bought the farm there before the mistake could be rectified, so there was a distinct push halfway through the mission to recover his body! The site of the Huey in flight below our level was very cool to watch.

For us, our main challenge were the small patrols that appeared further up the slopes or, on one occasion, popping up in front of us from a defilade position with murder on their minds and at least on grenade in their hands. Thankfully we never sustained a KIA in the FT, but comrade Mort did need patching at one point and Stranglove lost his mic temporarily - leading me to take command of the FT for the latter half of the mission (although Stranglove remained very effective, just silent). A change of CO also happened at the platoon level, with Grizzly dropping out a third of the way down the valley, a victim of ArmA/PC crashing issues. Comrade Headspace stepped up and led us, eventually, to victory.

:hist101:

Incohate Spatula

- Bravo SL: Fer
|- Washington
|- Nullkigan
|- Car00ke
|- Wolfenswan
|- Xenu
|- Watooce (2C)
|- Grizzly
|- ???

At last we had the playercount to attempt this RPS legend, and in fact the playercount was so good we had to switch to the RPS server (though we stayed in Folk's TS3 for comms). Comrade Bodge stepped up to lead the operation, with comrades Headspace and Tigershark taking Charlie and Delta.

Bravo was first ashore, with an uncontested landing at the LZ marked on the south-west corner of the island. Sadly, our friendly transport chopper was unlucky: after dropping us off safely and climbing away, it was hit by an AA munition and exploded. Because we're all hardened combat veterans, we stayed focused and bravely confirmed that the first RV point (near the lighthouse) was indeed completely clear of enemies. That, and we knew the chopper and its crew would respawn. Anyway, Bodge asked us to clear two hills to our east, the second of which was marked as containing 'fortifications'. In fact, both hills had large bunkers atop. Forming the squad into a line, I advanced us to within 20m of the first bunker, and then enjoyed watching our grenadiers clear it with several M203s. When we reached it nothing was left alive, so we went firm and waited for the rest of the platoon to land. The second bunker would prove to be a little different.

Once the rest of the platoon was down, Bodge asked us to take the next bunker. I split the squad into assaulting and supporting halves, and we opened up on the target. Things seemed to be going okay, even to the point at which both halves were reunited at the western-edge of the bunker. We cleared it fine, but came under fire from the east and/or south-east. Slowly but surely, over the next few minutes we sustained several casualties. With yet more men (and women) soaked up with the business of carrying or being carried to the CASEVAC point at the lighthouse, Bravo was soon combat ineffective.

Again, computer issues robbed us of an overall CO, and with Bodge unable to continue I asked Nullkigan (in my squad) if he'd mind stepping up and taking overall command. Usually, in a Folk mission, the next-in-line would have taken it (which probably would have been me, as there was no Alpha infantry squad); but I asked comrade Null to take the reigns as he knew the mission and he gamely agreed. Now Bravo really was ineffective, with just 2 of us left at the second bunker and enemy infantry flanking us to the south-east. Thankfully, the Apache granted us a fire mission, and after one adjustment poured a lot of effective rounds on the open area where our persecutors were hiding. Things went quiet for a while, with more than half of Bravo being or helping CASEVAC'd; but things were not quiet to our north-east, where the rest of the platoon sounded as if it was getting chewed up at the Motor Pool. Xenu and I moved forward to an overwatch position to see if we could help.

I couldn't say what happened, but our forces at the Motor Pool must have recovered their own situation, because Xenu and I didn't really engage anyone, instead moving off to a position north-east of the airfield. A little while later the rest of Bravo returned, patched and re-supplied, in the Wildcat, touching down at the Motor Pool itself. The squad soon reformed, and we crossed the valley to the wooded slopes just north of the northern airfield. As we were moving to new firing positions, I saw a small bunker to our left in the woods and asked for it to be checked out. Mistake. In moments, two of our number (now reduced to 5 with disconnects and AFKs) were incapacitated. I managed to get the two remaining OPFOR in the bunker (my own guys had done all the damage and now pinned the enemies in with their own bodies), but Bravo was once again ineffective. With comrade Car00ke acting as our guardian, Washington and I set off for the Motor Pool with bodies slung on our backs.

There was now a reasonably long wait for the our wounded to be CASEVAC'd and returned, during which the objectives appeared to fall at a terrific rate. By the time Bravo was reformed (for the third time), we were in a race to reach the last objective: Strelka. We raced south to the coast, then turned east and hugged the shoreline. Wolfenswan peeled off to satchel the southern-most AA point, but otherwise our run was largely unopposed. By the time we reached and began to sweep the woods south-west of Strelka, the mission had been completed.

Very well done to all comrades!

:clint:

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 12:39 AM
My role on taking over for Bodge: "Move on to the next objective please. What? You're all dead. Chopper will land a few miles away."

Inchoate Spatula is not a mission I am particularly experienced with/fond of, and I was not in a particularly talky mood, so apologies if I managed to lose control of things and leave people feeling they would be better off playing something else. Certainly we seemed to lose players rapidly shortly after I assumed 'command'.

I also couldn't stop saying CASEVAC (as in CAS[ualty] EVAC[uation]) as CASE-VAC. Funnily enough I knew I was saying it wrong from the very first time I said it, but couldn’t convince my mouth to use the correct term subsequently.

Takedown still needs some balancing. The mission author was on BluFor and mentioned he had some ideas for it, so he may update it later. It's somewhat difficult for the choppers to land close enough to be effective without drawing fire at the moment? Or maybe we just tried to land on top of the OpFor spawns. Short and sweet, though!

Valley is a nice straightforward idea but perhaps a little bit on the long side at the moment. That's a lot of rough terrain to cover on foot.

Spatula I simply don't like. I appreciate what Monty has tried to do with dynamic patrols, air support and severely limited revive, but the enemy count is such that the mission will drag on and you will have casualties, which will cause further delays in turn. The air support freely respawning means the ground pounders are downright unnecessary after a certain point too, as the 140 kills/9 deaths Bakke earned attest. Restructuring the mission to be shorter with perhaps only the fortifications, motor pool and specops base as objectives and moving the CASEVAC location to the southeast of Utes might be for the better?

Kills: 0 (Everything died before I could draw a bead, even when I moved out of formation to engage)
Deaths: 2 (Takedown almost before the chopper landed, once on Spatula falling off a roof after spamming the map button too much)

Wolfenswan
06-06-2011, 01:11 AM
Takedown still needs some balancing. The mission author was on BluFor and mentioned he had some ideas for it, so he may update it later. It's somewhat difficult for the choppers to land close enough to be effective without drawing fire at the moment? Or maybe we just tried to land on top of the OpFor spawns. Short and sweet, though!

The idea is neat but i too had the impression that it was a bit too easy for us. Maybe a little bird with a single pilot (or an unarmed UAV) spawning close to aziz would aid blufor in spotting. I experienced a rather funny glitch at the end of the mission when i was shot in my car but still able to drive. My character was clearly dead and motionless but the car kept moving, i only wasn't able to get out.

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 02:02 AM
Working late, so I found this funny and relevant:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bG6wu-mEBE0

StrangLove
06-06-2011, 07:54 AM
That vid reminds me of a bit in Valley where delta hit an enemy patrol at about 10 meters and someone had the good idea of throwing a grenade, just to discover that it wasn't an enemy patrol, it was one enemy, and he was missed by the grenade.

fer
06-06-2011, 09:09 AM
Another cross-post:


A few thoughts on last night, to reflect some of the feedback that's come my way so far:

On The Takedown: this needs some tweaking still. Personally, I think part of it is the tactics: BLUFOR landed in a trap, which was partially bad luck, but perhaps also a little bit over-aggressive. Just after the mission, Tigershark speculated about adding an armed helicopter into the mix, and I think that's worth exploring. An LB with guns could be used to keep the sympathisers in check, although it would mean changing the overall objective to 'capture Aziz' instead of killing him (b/c otherwise the armed LB could just head south and strafe all cars). I hope comrade Tigershark will get some time to explore some of these ideas with an edit.

On Valley RE (and revive): Nullkigan observed that this was a touch long, and I know what he means. My preference is not to use revive or respawn, but last night's session was (in part) about exploring that mechanic. It strikes me that with revive, it was always unlikely that we would lose the mission, but the lack of perma-death meant that things never got too urgent for us. So long as we maintained a slow pace we would always be more or less at full strength. I think that robbed us a little of challenge/achievement - I'd like to see that mission replayed at some point, but in its non-revive form (called just Valley).

On Incohate Spatula (and the CASEVAC mechanic): I'm really glad we got to play this with everyone from RPS and Folk, but I have to say it's slightly outside the envelope for Folk sessions. As comrade Nullkigan has observed on the RPS forum, combined arms missions are really hard to write, because there are few tasks that require infantry and attack helicopters to work together: either things happen sequentially (infantry removes an AA threat, then the helis move in to kill everything), or the helis can pretty much do the job by themselves. However, the CASEVAC mechanic was my real issue; as an element leader I spent a lot of time asking the living to wait around on the dead. The fact that we always got our helicopter assets back meant that the only real consequence of failure was that more time was added to the mission, and by the end I was exhausted. So whilst I'm glad we got the chance to experience this, I don't think it will be a Folk session staple - and that's not a criticism, just an observation that the Folk sessions have a slightly different goal from the normal RPS Saturday night session.

On comms: Firstly, a mea culpa, because at the start of Valley RE comrade Mort and I spammed the TS channel with chat about a book and were rightly shouted down. However, in general the comms were too chatty. Personally, I'm not a fan of overly serious servers or mil-sim radio etiquette, but there are a few things that are worth adopting (at least in spirit):

At slotting, pipe down and follow the host's instructions for when to slot; it's not useful to try and make the case for why you should take slot X or Y: just wait until it's up for grabs and compete in the click-fest!
Element leaders give orders, others listen; the element leader might ask for thoughts or feedback, but it's his/her call.
If you need to convey something to the overall CO, alert him/her but wait for the go ahead to deliver the full message as it allows a useful degree of 'traffic management'. So: "Command this is Charlie." ... "Go ahead Charlie." ... "Charlie has found a cache of wine and is combat ineffective. And drunk."
Overall, I enjoyed the session and really love playing with the the RPS comrades; but I'd also agree with comrade Grizzly (and others) in saying that we stepped a little bit too far from the concept of a Folk session. It's a subtle thing, but next week I plan to turn the dial a notch back towards shorter missions and more perma-death. Ideally, the degree of 'organisation' (not mil-sim) should range:

Saturday RPS <---> Tatical Tuesday @ RPS <---> Folk <------------------------------------------> Mil-Sim

Please chime in with your own thoughts and observations. I'm cross-posting this to the RPS ArmA2 thread (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?28-ArmA-2-Combined-Operations-We-have-our-own-server/page4) (btw, I urge all non-RPS Folk comrades to register on the RPS forums and say hello there).

Car00ke
06-06-2011, 09:37 AM
Hello,

I enjoyed our session last night, though it was a bit chatty for me at times...
In the Spatula mission I got totaly confused, maybe it's a bit lack of gaming experience, but half the time I didn't know what to do...
For me, the chat was way to busy during this mission, couldn't understand a word my squad leader said.
I did find it fun to play with such a big group, it was something I never did before.

Car00ke

StrangLove
06-06-2011, 09:49 AM
Hello,
In the Spatula mission I got totaly confused, maybe it's a bit lack of gaming experience, but half the time I didn't know what to do...
Car00ke

Don't worry about it, Spatula is incredibly confusing, thanks to the large playercount and many objectives that have to be cleared.

Wolfenswan
06-06-2011, 09:57 AM
Working late, so I found this funny and relevant:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F_KJpFKO_Bk


FTFY (tbh, this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWNyKMk_Fpc) embodies ARPS even better)


Restructuring the mission to be shorter with perhaps only the fortifications, motor pool and specops base as objectives and moving the CASEVAC location to the southeast of Utes might be for the better?

This or an fragile ambulance humvee that has to be ferried over the river. (Which would need a chinook?)



I vote for an adversarial version of the valley by the way. I want to hide behind a rock and shoot others in the back.

Batolemaeus
06-06-2011, 10:05 AM
I enjoyed our session last night, though it was a bit chatty for me at times...
In the Spatula mission I got totaly confused, maybe it's a bit lack of gaming experience, but half the time I didn't know what to do...

Dito. I basically just followed my leader around but as a medic I wasn't needed at all (either people were dead or not or somewhere far away). When the tanks in the depot shredded my squad (except me), I tried dragging everyone behind a house away from the tank, which succeeded at least. Then the apache killed me with a missile and I spent ages waiting.
Due to the way the revive mechanic worked, we spent more time waiting for the heli to arrive than actually doing anything and with the amount of armor running around we were entirely ineffectual, not having any AT at all while the choppers had already mowed down all infantry. Then my leader lost connection and i was squadless, so I followed people around who loked like they knew what they were doing while trying to find a good way to break through the chatter over our split voicecoms. Didn't work well.

In the valley mission, I tried dragging one wounded dude behind some rocks for a revive, accidently picked the revive option instead, and got killed. The revive bug hit me, so I respawned, piloting the chopper.
Funny thing there was: The enemy group didn't open fire until I was already very close and noticed that the ants down there were not the ants I was looking for. Sorry unaco, got you killed there.

fer
06-06-2011, 10:21 AM
I vote for an adversarial version of the valley by the way. I want to hide behind a rock and shoot others in the back.

I'd love to do that, but we'd need to think about how to reconcile the size of the valley with the likely playercount. Any thoughts?

Wolfenswan
06-06-2011, 10:29 AM
I'd love to do that, but we'd need to think about how to reconcile the size of the valley with the likely playercount. Any thoughts?

First thing that comes to mind:
Asymmetrical team sizes, while OPFOR has some AI allies with crappy weapons (so they don't shoot BLUFOR up too much).
The M60 is an amazing weapon, even on far distance so a careful BLUFOR team should be able to dispose the AI, even if they'd get AKs and PKMs.

OPFOR plays as Aziz and his man servants and has a set area to stay. (Can you add a shack next to one of the ponds? Then it is Aziz's holiday compound)

Bodge
06-06-2011, 11:00 AM
I think the main problem I had was the voice comms, there were a lot of instances of people broadcasting to all during missions when it should really go through fire team leaders and squad leaders whenever possible. In-between missions I think people should try and be aware of who needs to be talking.

If everyone has de-slotted it is likely that the mission maker or session lead is wanting to send some instructions, if the slots are filled then the CO will probably be needing to give a plan of attack or the all clear. I think the problem is that when we are on RPS we tend to use mumble for all chatter with slightly less command structure.

Grizzly
06-06-2011, 11:02 AM
On comms: Firstly, a mea culpa, because at the start of Valley RE comrade Mort and I spammed the TS channel with chat about a book and were rightly shouted down. However, in general the comms were too chatty. Personally, I'm not a fan of overly serious servers or mil-sim radio etiquette, but there are a few things that are worth adopting (at least in spirit):As an RPS only observation, I did notice that the comms or the text channel were ocasionally used for bashing other people for not living up to certain (perhaps unrealistic) expectations. This should not happen in ANY session. Its an annoying and unsettling form of pointless radio traffic. (Same goes for other pointless radio traffic, which there was quite a lot off, but this struck me as particularely annoying).

I think one of the problems also is that RPS is not used to the large scale organisation of people, while we had some large scale stuff going on, and are comm traffic was as if we were doeing a mid-week 8 man session.

Wolfenswan
06-06-2011, 11:05 AM
I think the main problem I had was the voice comms, there were a lot of instances of people broadcasting to all during missions when it should really go through fire team leaders and squad leaders whenever possible. In-between missions I think people should try and be aware of who needs to be talking.


I did this more than once, but mostly because VON is a POS and likes to refuse working for (both outgoing and incoming). I really prefer splitting up in different channels on TS or Mumble.


As an RPS only observation, I did notice that the comms or the text channel were ocasionally used for bashing other people for not living up to certain (perhaps unrealistic) expectations. This should not happen in ANY session.

I agree but i think what bystanders may observe as over the top is often good natured bickering for the ones involved. However, if anyone feels insulted or disturbed he should def. speak up.

Joseph-Sulphur
06-06-2011, 11:47 AM
As an RPS only observation, I did notice that the comms or the text channel were ocasionally used for bashing other people for not living up to certain (perhaps unrealistic) expectations. This should not happen in ANY session. Its an annoying and unsettling form of pointless radio traffic. (Same goes for other pointless radio traffic, which there was quite a lot off, but this struck me as particularely annoying).

I think one of the problems also is that RPS is not used to the large scale organisation of people, while we had some large scale stuff going on, and are comm traffic was as if we were doeing a mid-week 8 man session.
But... everyone bashes alex! Its what he's there for!

I agree with people's opinions on the comms being to crowded. I'll shut up more next time.

fer
06-06-2011, 12:03 PM
As an RPS only observation, I did notice that the comms or the text channel were ocasionally used for bashing other people for not living up to certain (perhaps unrealistic) expectations. This should not happen in ANY session. Its an annoying and unsettling form of pointless radio traffic.
Sorry to hear that happened, and apologies if it came from any Folk comrades. I agree, there's no place for bashing in any session. Mild banter is great, but the moment someone's enjoyment is destroyed by such comments I'd be inclined to reach for the #kick command. Everyone is allowed to crash a helicopter full of players from time to time, it's the law.

Bodge
06-06-2011, 12:14 PM
I did notice a couple of instances and let them slide, mainly because i was having so many darn problems myself. Kicks (and temp bans) will be made if aggressive criticisms are voiced, I know we have some banter that can sometimes be seen by a third party as insulting but those involved realise it is a joke. That might be okay for our RPS sessions but leave it out of Folk shenanigans.

Batolemaeus
06-06-2011, 12:49 PM
I generally assume everything's a joke. I mean, you all are.

Zing!

Seriousness aside, I felt a bit conflicted about the whole night, however I guess I'll be coming back for more.

Unaco
06-06-2011, 01:52 PM
On the Comms issues: Why were we using ingame VON? We should have no need to use it, except for direct/vehicle comms. Squads should be in a channel... Alpha in a channel, Bravo in a channel, Pilots in a channel etc. When they talk, they should be talking within their squad, just to that channel. That way the majority of chatter/comms are kept within squads. The Squad Leaders should have a whisper or similar, so, if they need to they can communicate with the other squads and the other Squad Leaders and command, and, it should be their responsibility to keep Command and other SL's informed etc. The only people you should be hearing from another squad (on TS/Mumble) should be that squads leader, the CO or pilots etc. That is, the grunts in a squad shouldn't be using whisper, unless their SL is down/AFK or similar, or if they're doing something very specific (coordinating with Pilots, or a member of another squad for something special). We can do this in Mumble no problem, but despite asking several times, I still don't know if it is possible to do it in TS3.

On Spatula: I really didn't enjoy the playthrough... I've had great times on Spatula, and I've had terrible times. This session was somewhere in between. Maybe it was the Comms issue that was causing the consternation, but I don't think that was all. From someone in our squad ignoring Comms and refusing to get on the Chopper on the carrier when we all wanted to get going, to our SL deciding Charlie (the support squad, with 1 missing, 2 down, and only a medic, a sniper and the SL still standing) should rush over difficult terrain to assault the SF base head on, to a lack of CAS when it was needed (while the chopper was boasting about "Apache beats T72" and then crashing, there was another T72 rolling around that cut down both Charlie and Delta)... things just didn't seem to go well out there. By around that point (when we took the motor pool and got a CASEvac from it) I was the only member of Charlie (out of 6) still in the squad ingame. Not the only one still on the server (at least one other was still on, but wasn't in the squad and hadn't been for a while). Lack of Comms exacerbated this a little. I also couldn't seem to get through to Command to let them know this situation.

There were some positives though... We seemed to get everyone onto the Island with little difficulty (except the Chopper getting taken down, while empty luckily), and we didn't have to perform our first CASEvac before we did our first Assault, as is usually the case for ARPS. There also appears that there was some coordination between the Apache and Bravo squad at one instant, which is commendable.

As others have said though... Spatula can play so well, but there are issues with it. The CASEvac is a great idea, but in practice it wasn't really working (maybe because we had 3 squads, so 2 or 3 different and quite distant Evac locations, rather than the 1 or 2 we usually have, that are usually closer). Something like using an Ambulance, or having to capture a field Hospital on the Island or similar might be slightly better. Also, with the Apache, how many times did it get shot down/crash of it's own accord? When there's no real downside to losing assets like that (except a 2minute wait while it respawns) they tend to get thrown away, or treated like someones 'toy'. I'd like to see how it would play if the Apache DIDN'T respawn... the crew would have to work closely with Infantry to make sure there was no AA left, and the Apache wouldn't be able to clear 2/3rds of the Island while the Infantry are still planning their first assault.

Sorry if that all sounds a bit ranty, but better to be honest with how I thought it went.

On Valley: I turned up 1/2 way through this one, and despite whatever bug it was with getting booted out of the door gunner position in the Huey right at the start, I actually enjoyed it. It feels like a great idea... clearing out the Valley, a restricted space that keeps us focussed, but not too focussed, comms between squads to avoid blue_on_blue, lack of toys. Was good fun, and I'd like to play it without revive, and with a little more pressure on us (and also it being a little shorter for any who bite the bullet in the 1st minute - which it probably would be if we were under a little more pressure).

Batolemaeus
06-06-2011, 02:04 PM
We can do this in Mumble no problem, but despite asking several times, I still don't know if it is possible to do it in TS3.

Ts3 has this nifty thing called channel command. Every commander could join channel command and talk with other commanders.
You just have to be a little careful as it can get confusing if people talk on channel command and in normal channels, so all channel commanders should be encouraged to signal somehow that they're talking on channel command. Just using some codeword is usually enough.

Unaco
06-06-2011, 02:16 PM
Ts3 has this nifty thing called channel command. Every commander could join channel command and talk with other commanders.

I know it has the Channel commander thing... but, why wasn't it being used? And does it work the same way we have our whisper on Mumble? If only commanders can hear it, it might not be the best thing for the CO (overall commander) to communicate on, as it might be better for EVERYONE to hear them, and not just the SL's.

Batolemaeus
06-06-2011, 02:19 PM
I don't know how mumble's whisper works, so I can't answer that.
I'm also not sure if it is possible to let someone broadcast to all channels while being in a different channel while being on channel command. Huh. Hm.

Unaco
06-06-2011, 02:25 PM
I'm also not sure if it is possible to let someone broadcast to all channels while being in a different channel while being on channel command. Huh. Hm.

That is how Mumbles whisper works. We have an ArmA Group/Channel in Mumble. Within that, we have BluFor and OpFor (sub)channels, and within BluFor (for example) we have Alpha, Bravo, Charlie etc, subchannels. When in Alpha and talking/broadcasting normally, only people in Alpha will hear what is said. If Alpha SL uses his Whisper though, which broadcasts to Parent channel (BluFor, if maybe the CO is in that room, rather than one of the Inf (A/B/C etc) or a special CO room) and the Subchannels (Alpha, Bravo, Charlie, etc) then everyone (in BluFor) should hear it.

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 02:57 PM
I'll first address Teamspeak 3: Teamspeak currently has whisper lists, like Mumble. In addition, it supports DYNAMIC whisper lists, which Mumble does not. Example: if you set up a whisper in teamspeak to talk to all Channel Commanders, only people with the Channel Commander status within the range of the whisper (e.g. parent channel and all channels below that) will hear your transmission. You can also set up the more traditional "all users" in the same range on seperate bind.

There's a readme on how to set channel commander whispers up here: http://fightersims.com/forum/3-support/85-teamspeak-3-setup.html

On ingame comms, I find I'm happy using VON with VOIP as a backup. There are a few teething problems there (like Wolfenswan not being able to hear VON, ArmA desynching) which is why I prefer both being available. I admit to not having even considered how to be clear over comms in a mission critical role (e.g. platoon/squad command) and will try harder in the future.

Missions and player behaviour: I noticed no problems with the Folk from Folk and enjoyed the opportunity to learn some of the more organised stuff, Fer's command style on Spatula (inc terminology) were new to me. On the other hand I am honestly disappointed in the behaviour of a minority of RPS players who were unfairly chatty, loud, obnoxious and always, always seem to end up with the toys first. And then abuse said toys. This behaviour has driven away other players, and there should be no onus on players to defend themselves against even joking insults. It simply shouldn't happen in the first place. There will be more on this later when I can figure out how to phrase what I want to say in a manner appropriate for a public forum and a server that is designed to accept new players with open arms.

Wolfenswan
06-06-2011, 03:03 PM
(like Wolfenswan not being able to hear VON, ArmA desynching)

i fixed the overly quiet VON by alt-tabbing out of the game and selecting "mixer" via the speaker symbol in the taskbar. for some reason the slider for arma 2 was all the way down, altough ingame settings and system sound were fairly high. putting it up a few notches put the VON sounds on the same level as TS3.

Unaco
06-06-2011, 03:21 PM
One of the problems I have with Ingame VON, is that I run with (5.1) speakers, and headphones... I have the game sounds going through my speakers, and have TS/Mumble through my headphones. Ingame sounds I can make out (bullets, vehicles, choppers, explosions, choppers exploding), and TS3/Mumble chat I can make out fine (it going through the headphones by itself). But the Ingame VON, going through my speakers tends to get drowned out by the game sounds, and is usually quite distorted anyway. If there was a way to split out ingame VON to just my headphones (so TS3/Mumble and game VON, ie all voices go through headphones), I'd probably be very happy to use it. As it is now though, I prefer to use an external application for voice... or at least the important voices (banter can stick to ingame VON).

Thanks for that link Nullkigan... I'll try and get my whisper set up for TS3 and see how that works. I did try to do it when I first got it installed, but coming from Mumble, things just seemed too different (I can't set a key to 'Activate Push-To-Whisper', only 'Activate Push-To-Reply to a Whisper').

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 03:36 PM
Thanks for that link Nullkigan... I'll try and get my whisper set up for TS3 and see how that works. I did try to do it when I first got it installed, but coming from Mumble, things just seemed too different (I can't set a key to 'Activate Push-To-Whisper', only 'Activate Push-To-Reply to a Whisper').

That's an interface difference rather than a mechanical one. Go to Options->Whisper->Whisper Lists->New. Pick a hotkey, select whisper to Groups, All Clients, Complete Channel Family to get the same whisper as you have in Mumble.

kataras
06-06-2011, 04:25 PM
For VON vs VOIP, I have been having problems as well when depending only on VON (in regular ARPS missions). I also have to put the slider all the way up in the mixer and at the same time almost mute music and sound FX through the in-game menu. Then I can make out what the person is saying but it can be disorienting as I don't hear if I m being shot at etc...
I ll be joining tomorrow, and hopefully next Sunday for the Folk sessions.

Grizzly
06-06-2011, 05:06 PM
I noticed no problems with the Folk from Folk and enjoyed the opportunity to learn some of the more organised stuff, Fer's command style on Spatula (inc terminology) were new to me. On the other hand I and am honestly disappointed in the behaviour of a minority of RPS players who were unfairly chatty, loud, obnoxious and always, always seem to end up with the toys first. And then abuse said toys. This behaviour has driven away other players, and there should be no onus on players to defend themselves against even joking insults. It simply shouldn't happen in the first place. There will be more on this later when I can figure out how to phrase what I want to say in a manner appropriate for a public forum and a server that is designed to accept new players with open arms.

We can simplify the issue by holding a meeting of ARPS regulars in a secluded channel somewhere in the arma channel.

fer
06-06-2011, 06:28 PM
Fer's command style on Spatula (inc terminology) were new to me.

What was new, comrade?

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 06:58 PM
"Go Firm", calling out orientations, and staying on top of spacings. The most organised I've otherwise encountered is "we're going to take that hill by going up that ridge to the west. <Name> is on point."

Your more active command style seems much more effective, especially with larger fireteams.

Liqourish
06-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Null, haven't you been around for previous folk sessions?
In any case, the folk command style is effective and infectious. It gives everyone something to do, all the time, so people don't get bored and try to go off and do their own thing.
It's the reason I make a point to be around for it on sundays :D

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 07:13 PM
This was the first time I was able to be free for it. I've had a mix of deadlines, and whilst I intended to play last week our shared distraction prevented it.

fer
06-06-2011, 07:32 PM
"Go Firm", calling out orientations, and staying on top of spacings.

"Go firm" is a touch mil-sim, but it's a nice shorthand for "we're staying put for a bit, and might want to defend ourselves". Orientation is really useful, as it allows one to give directions based on 'left', 'ahead' and 'right' - all of which are much more immediate than compass bearings (which will cause players to pause for a second to consult their own compass). Formations and spacings don't have to be Napoleonic, but having a fireteam member know s/he is responsible for security 'right' or 'left' greatly increases the situational awareness of an element; spacings are a particular bugbear of mine, because in TvT a bunched fireteam is a grenade away from oblivion. It's a bit less of an issue against AI infantry, but AI tanks make it a factor.


In any case, the folk command style is effective and infectious. It gives everyone something to do, all the time, so people don't get bored and try to go off and do their own thing.

As I've hinted at in an earlier post, I think there is appetite for the Folk sessions to remain a notch more organised than the standard ARPS Saturday session (and perhaps Tactical Tuesday); so next Sunday we'll revert to the more traditional Folk style of command, comms and missions. I realise that won't attract absolutely everyone, but it will mean there is a nice range of 'styles' to pick from in a given week. I hope those of you who do enjoy the 'Folk style' will register on the Folk forum (http://www.ferstaberinde.com/folk/forum/) if you have not already done so (don't worry, no clan tags or similar nonsense to deal with - you can't 'join' Folk because it's more like an event than a clan - but it makes it easier for us to reach you in the case of any ad hocs or information updates).

StrangLove
06-06-2011, 07:35 PM
I like going firm :3

GraveyardJimmy
06-06-2011, 07:58 PM
the way I see it (and this is just an opinion):
I enjoy tactical stuff, but like to have a chat sometimes too. This is why I like RPS ARMA- Tactical stuff at specific times, but gerenal meet-ups are flexible. If events have everyone wanting to be serious, thats great, but I dont want ARMA with RPS to become a lot more tactical all the time. However, if people fancy a tactical couple of missions, that could be good- I dont think tactical stuff should necessarily be limited ONLY to tuesdays.

If RPS go to another server, I think it would be expected that we would be more reserved- its their server after all, so we should abide by their style.

Nullkigan
06-06-2011, 08:41 PM
the way I see it (and this is just an opinion):
I enjoy tactical stuff, but like to have a chat sometimes too. This is why I like RPS ARMA- Tactical stuff at specific times, but gerenal meet-ups are flexible. If events have everyone wanting to be serious, thats great, but I dont want ARMA with RPS to become a lot more tactical all the time. However, if people fancy a tactical couple of missions, that could be good- I dont think tactical stuff should necessarily be limited ONLY to tuesdays.

If RPS go to another server, I think it would be expected that we would be more reserved- its their server after all, so we should abide by their style.

Eloquently put and I agree with this completely.

So I've been talking to a few of our 'worst offenders' and asking them to shape their behaviour on Tuesdays and Sundays, whether or not we're playing with Folk, a bit.

The original point of 'Tactical Tuesday' wasn't simply to play 'tactically', but to also clam up, calm down, and step away from the Toys You Hold So Dear (Apache, A-10, LRR, whatever). This was at the request of some of the older members of the group who were having trouble thinking over the chatter and cries of "I'm taking the A-10!". A good rule of thumb for effecitve communications is to ask yourself if you're being brief, clear and to the point. If you're not, you need to think a little more before you start talking. Also realise that other players can be more reticent than yourself, and will wait for second or even third calls before asking for a mission critical asset.

I've talked it over with a few of the RPS admins, and we're willing to apply muscle to people during that sort of session if we feel they haven't gotten the point. As I mentioned earlier, I've had discussions with people who don't play much any more about why they don't and 'environment' came up more than boredom.

If this means someone doesn't have the usual amount fun, then maybe those sessions aren't for them. There are other evenings in the week for chattering over an A-10 pileup.

IceRaiser
06-06-2011, 11:52 PM
I realise that I might've contributed to the "chat cluttering" simply 'cuz thats the only way I can make myself heard whilst at work(laptop, crappy mic.)...

So, to redeem myself I'd like to try out the Commander-position this Saturday or Sunday(depending if everyone wants to die or just a few...).
If that's alright with y'all!

And once again, Thank you Fer for the invite! I love to play with you guys and your wierd tactical missions!
(no nukes? vut?)

SvDvorak
07-06-2011, 12:39 AM
I just thought I'd throw in my comments on the current topics (Spatula and play last Sunday):

First Spatula. I just want to say that I'm really sorry for losing the wildcat after dropping of the first squad, I haven't used the wildcat alot and it has a bit of a different feel so I went a bit too high when returning, my fault completely. Though having my computer crash which in turn delayed the CASEVAC in the middle of the mission was unfortunate.

I'll just say right now that I like Spatula for it's multiple objectives with different approaches, I'm one for more sandboxy stuff where you rely more on your commander to set up a plan and having squads execute it while keeping a functional command structure. That is the same reason why I like Domi and Insurgency, there is more need for a commander to actually lead and it gives more opportunities for teamwork (when this works that is).
Though I do understand the problem on Spatula specifically with having to wait a long time while you're dead and having to carry friendlies for miles when the AA hinders any CASEVAC to be remotely close to the front.

With that said, I think the lack of (proper) communication and an established second in command (for when Bodge lost his sound) broke the mission a bit when we played on Sunday. I had no idea who the new commander was and I kept getting conflicting reports on what AA was still alive and where to land the CASEVAC; during the entire mission I think only one AA battery got marked as down, the rest I just had to guess were killed.

I'd also like all RPS squad leaders to ape after fer's active commanding (from what I gather from what Null said), I think it makes the squad more effective if everybody knows their role and know what the squad is doing. Just having the grunts trying covering the same 180 degrees while trying to keep up with their SL who starts advancing without communicating is very tedious. I try to get better at this myself but it's really hard to make sure that your entire squad is working as a cohesive unit as it is right now.

To summarise (and I seem to be coming to the same conclusion as the rest): we need to work on having a proper command structure and squad leads need to be leading their squads more. Of course, that requires that the squadmates actually listen and follow as best they can.

If this is some mad rambling, then I blame it on being late and I'm tired.

fer
07-06-2011, 12:45 AM
And once again, Thank you Fer for the invite! I love to play with you guys and your wierd tactical missions! (no nukes? vut?)

You're very welcome; we love having our RPS comrades alongside us in the struggle for an agrarian socialist utopia. Next Sunday I can promise you at least 30% more death.

Grizzly
07-06-2011, 07:36 AM
First Spatula. I just want to say that I'm really sorry for losing the wildcat after dropping of the first squad, I haven't used the wildcat alot and it has a bit of a different feel so I went a bit too high when returning, my fault completely. Though having my computer crash which in turn delayed the CASEVAC in the middle of the mission was unfortunate.That's not a problem at all to me. SUre, you just got fragged by an AA missile on the way back, but that sort of stuff happens. Be glad that it did not happen when we were still in there :P. You really shouldn't need to apologize for this. (Normally, in folk, you can't, since dead men tell no tales :P)

As for the communications stuff, I already said my piece on that on the Folk forums: Last sunday strayed away from the Folk philosophy too much. However, the communcations problems were mostly our fault. We were INVITED by folk. We were doing their sessions, and thus should abide by their rules. That did not happen.

kataras
07-06-2011, 09:14 AM
I don't know about Sundays, but for example last night was pretty tactical for a night that was not designated as such, at least for Alpha squad. I thought it went quite well, covering each other,reviving etc. I really enjoyed it and i think Unaco did a good job leading us. I dont know how it went for the other squads though...
As for playing with toys, there is always Armory? And i guess the in-game chat can be used for irrelevant/unimportant discussions so as not to bother the people who need to communicate info during a mission?
But generally I agree with Jimmy and Null, I like the more dynamic nature of the nights and the varying degrees of tacticality and stupidity, depending on the mood and people around. At the same time this means that some problems will invariably arise but I think its nothing that cannot be solved with some discussion/threatening/blackmail!

Harlander
07-06-2011, 09:27 AM
Last night, on EBass' mission: I was ostensibly in command of Bravo, but kind of lost my handle on it before too long. Luckily my squad was a highly-trained machine able to act autonomously and secure the objective. Er, or something.

I reckon we should use this tactical Tuesday as a dry-run for enhanced command techniques.

Here's a stab at a bullet list of things that've been brought up so far, as an aid to thinking on it:

Assign command and deputy command at the start (in anticipation of commander losing connection etc.)
Squad leaders micromanaging formation/direction etc.
Fire teams within squads

Anything else?

Is there a guide to command in the same way there's a guide to sniping/AT?

SvDvorak
07-06-2011, 10:09 AM
Harlander, you're probably looking for this http://ttp2.dslyecxi.com/
It's very long but its got alot of meat in it, just check the chapters you're interested in.

Harlander
07-06-2011, 11:06 AM
That's pretty sweet, thanks

fer
07-06-2011, 11:28 AM
TTP2 is a superb primer, and well worth reading if you want to get the most out pf playing ArmA 2 tactically. However, remember that - not unlike religious texts - your mileage will be greater if you enact the concepts and spirit of its recommendations, rather than attempting a completely literal or fundamentalist adoption.

I'm going to put together a mission list for Sunday's Folk session, but any requests are welcome - just please bear in mind that we'll be returning to the Folk set of missions for the session.

Wolfenswan
07-06-2011, 11:49 AM
Last night, on EBass' mission: I was ostensibly in command of Bravo, but kind of lost my handle on it before too long. Luckily my squad was a highly-trained machine able to act autonomously and secure the objective. Er, or something.we all earned points for heroic deeds in the face of grave danger. well, for that and for blowing up a centuries old site of spiritual importance.

i really like the mission but it does horrible, horrible things to my framerate (especially at the beginning) and i usually end up dead because of this.



I'm going to put together a mission list for Sunday's Folk session, but any requests are welcome - just please bear in mind that we'll be returning to the Folk set of missions for the session. I'd love to do the shilka mission again, although we lost people the last time because they died earlier and didn't want to wait.

I'd suggest considering the RPS server as a "dead people playground" for the duration of the Folk
session.

Is the adversarial mission where one team has to defend caches and the other guys have to blow them up on FOLK? (even if not, it might fit the spirit of FOLK missions and is usually fun to watch after you died)

kataras
07-06-2011, 11:58 AM
i really like the mission but it does horrible, horrible things to my framerate (especially at the beginning) and i usually end up dead because of this.

Its the map for some reason, maybe cause it s huge and in most missions there s a lot of AI? I get the same in Zargabad, FPS drops down to 15-22 from 40 and it makes me wanna throw up. However using older (NVIDIA) drivers helped a bit (I started having the same problem with another game after installing the newest drivers). Try a few and see how it works? Last night I could play ok, was a bit choppy at times but playable.

sinister agent
07-06-2011, 01:13 PM
I found the start of the mission chugged along a little, too, and my PC is a bit of a monster that rarely struggles with Arma.

It was a good one, though. Really tough - I'm not convinced the hot landing is a good idea, especially as you've no time to orientate yourself when you land.

fer
07-06-2011, 01:48 PM
I'd love to do the shilka mission again, although we lost people the last time because they died earlier and didn't want to wait.

Since we completed that one so recently, I don't plan to repeat it unless there is an edited version (which there won't be, because comrade Housemaster is away). However, I was thinking of playing Moonless, which is similar, but set in the 1980s. At night.


Is the adversarial mission where one team has to defend caches and the other guys have to blow them up on FOLK? (even if not, it might fit the spirit of FOLK missions and is usually fun to watch after you died)

You mean Cacheola, which is defintely a Folk mission (I wrote it). If we had a playercount of at least 30 we could run the adversarial version, but I'd be less keen on repeating the coop so soon after a combined Folk+RPS force completed it with no KIAs (a few weeks ago). We could try Cordonbleu or Cordonbleufor for some slightly smaller-scale nocturnal coop in Zargabad.


I'd suggest considering the RPS server as a "dead people playground" for the duration of the Folk
session.

If we return to running the standard Folk missions, we should be able to structure the session so the first 2-3 missions are short. Something like Shilkas of Nur, Cacheola or Moonless would have to be run as mission #3 or #4.

StrangLove
07-06-2011, 02:13 PM
I'd just like to remind you all that tonight is tactical tuesday, so don your srs bsns hats and prepare for some proper warring.

Bodge
07-06-2011, 03:23 PM
I have a suggestion for testing out command structure and new resolutions.

Tactical Domi.

Wolfenswan
07-06-2011, 03:35 PM
I have a suggestion for testing out command structure and new resolutions.

Tactical Domi.

Tactical Air Assault.

Ha.

Ha.

Ha.

No.


But Tactical Domi sounds good to me, although we shoud be able to implement a command structure more elaborate than the usual CHAAAAAAAARGE in most of the missions.

Harlander
07-06-2011, 03:45 PM
We should use the infantry Domi maybe?

Is there one on Zargabad? Urban stuff always seems more tacticool to me than the sparser cities of Takistan

Unaco
07-06-2011, 03:52 PM
I'd be up for Tactical Domi... using either the No Toys, or the Toys version... as long as we lay out the rules to people beforehand, and enforce those rules with an Iron Fist and an Acid Tongue.

From what Bodge was saying in chat, I think he means we have a CO. The CO decides how, when and by whom the toys (read Attack Choppers, Jets, Tanks) are used, and who will coordinate the individual squads. And SL's will, obviously, lead their individual squads.

Rossi
07-06-2011, 03:56 PM
Hi all. Just saw this thread! I'm a veteran Op Flash player and love Arma 2!

I'd like to join you tonight if possible? Just for the record I'm an excellent chopper pilot :)

Joseph-Sulphur
07-06-2011, 04:03 PM
Tacticlol Domination has worked before, and been pretty fun. I don't think playing the infantry or normal variants has much impact on the overall tacticality, since whoever is in charge can just delegate who does what.

I hope you admin types don't get carried away with the enforcement of our newfound rules. Being too strict and micromanaging exactly where everyone is moving can be just as detrimental to fun as me describing alex's flying as down syndrome like or whatever. All we need for a fun more organised experience is a devolved Battlefield 2 style command structure and proper organdisation of comms.

edit

Hi all. Just saw this thread! I'm a veteran Op Flash player and love Arma 2!

I'd like to join you tonight if possible? Just for the record I'm an excellent chopper pilot :)
Sure thing. We usually start at around 2000 GMT+1, but hang around in the RPS steam group chatroom beforehand so that you know exactly when we're starting. Make sure you have Mumble installed beforehand please, we use it for the vast majority of our communication.

Rossi
07-06-2011, 04:08 PM
Ok cool. I have football until 8:30 so wont be on until 9 at the very earliest. Hope you're still around by then.

Bodge
07-06-2011, 04:08 PM
I will kick people that are negatively affecting peoples play experience, no one mentioned micro management as it is not one of our rules. We never mentioned changing peoples playing style just their attitudes and respect of Folk protocol.

kataras
07-06-2011, 04:08 PM
@Rossi :Jump in, details on the first page. (eh too late...)

Zargabad sounds good, last night was tense inside the city. Just hope I don't get a slideshow. I ll be joining tonight. What do people think about forming flexibly stable fire-teams? Like not that you have to join a specific one but if you feel you work better with three-four others and a specific team leader why not? I was happy with the team last night (Unaco, Null and Sinister), don't know what they thought of it...

fer
07-06-2011, 04:20 PM
Actually, can I make a suggestion? If you're going to test out a slightly different and more organised approach in tonight's Tactical Tuesday session, you might want to start with a very simple infantry mission that does not feature respawn. Dealing with respawning / re-supplying fireteam members, and/or air and armour assets are very quick ways of adding to the stress placed on the CO and element leaders.

I'd be inclined to use the coop version of Cacheola (fkoa_co40_cacheola), but change the time parameter to noon and ditch the Hummers as soon as you get to the villa / edge of the city and continue as fireteams on foot. You can take that mission at your own pace, but it will challenge you to co-ordinate within and between fireteams as you systematically search for caches.

If I can get free of work, I'll try and join tonight.

Bodge
07-06-2011, 04:23 PM
Right basic guidelines for tonights domi, to see if it works.

- One commander, this will likely be Iceraiser who will direct squads and any assets
- Squad leaders will be open for anyone that would like to give it a go, just be willing to follow and give orders.
- Please don't change your primary weapon type, so if you are an MG feel free to switch between the different MGs but don't pick up a sniper rifle so that your SL knows what he has available.
- We will move to separate channels to help us hear orders and internal squad chat, try and let SLs do communicating between squads.
- Be nice to people.

That's it, the rest will be sorted at briefing, I think that is within the bounds of our Tactical Tuesday I feel. Feel free to disagree though, this is an experiment after all.

Rossi
07-06-2011, 04:24 PM
I've been in ArmA sessions where things get very complicated very quickly. With dozens of people shouting over voicecom, it physically hurts to hear it and it's an assault on the senses.

The key to ArmA in my experience is to keep things simple. They do that in the military too.

On edit: I have basic military training, not sure if that helps in Arma though.

Bodge
07-06-2011, 04:25 PM
@fer, that is kinda why i want to try it with domi. It will be as simple as domi gets, just with its freeform style.

Joseph-Sulphur
07-06-2011, 04:27 PM
Right basic guidelines for tonights domi, to see if it works.

- One commander, this will likely be Iceraiser who will direct squads and any assets
- Squad leaders will be open for anyone that would like to give it a go, just be willing to follow and give orders.
- Please don't change your primary weapon type, so if you are an MG feel free to switch between the different MGs but don't pick up a sniper rifle so that your SL knows what he has available.
- We will move to separate channels to help us hear orders and internal squad chat, try and let SLs do communicating between squads.
- Be nice to people.

That's it, the rest will be sorted at briefing, I think that is within the bounds of our Tactical Tuesday I feel. Feel free to disagree though, this is an experiment after all.
Sounds good. Infantry variant? How many towns?

Bodge
07-06-2011, 04:29 PM
I reckon we will go with the inf version and just go with 2 towns for now. Shouldn't take us too long if we get enough people.

Joseph-Sulphur
07-06-2011, 04:39 PM
I reckon we will go with the inf version and just go with 2 towns for now. Shouldn't take us too long if we get enough people.
Cool. Any idea if that sequential town thing is working now?

Ansob
07-06-2011, 04:47 PM
Yay, Tactical domi. On that account, I'll try to join tonight. It's been a while.

Bodge
07-06-2011, 04:49 PM
I dunno about that sequential thing, it won't make much difference tonight but I can't remember what happened last time we tried it.

SvDvorak
07-06-2011, 05:25 PM
I know most people loathe it but I would like to throw in a vote for Insurgency if we want Zargabad and we're doing infantry only. I would never expect us to finish the whole thing, but capturing a few zones atleast could work. Of course, infantry domi will work fine too, just throwing in Insurgency if we want to go for Zargabad. And oh, right, there's Fallujah Domi as well if we want close quarters.

Joseph-Sulphur
07-06-2011, 05:54 PM
You can have one or two cache insurgency. The problem with it is that you can't really play it like most other missions, there are just too many enemies, you have to get as much intelligence as possible and then just rush the cache before you get overwhelmed. Trying to clear all the red squares takes far too long. That said, we've had fun playing it even when we were trying to clear areas, so its worth a go.

washington
07-06-2011, 06:22 PM
Domi sounds like fun! I'm in.

I have a new mission that I'd like to have play-tested. Either before or after Domi, depending how many are around and willing.

Nullkigan
07-06-2011, 06:29 PM
I've finished giving people earfuls now, I think.

I will be 90 or so minutes late, as I have to deal with some bloodbowl before I can ArmA.

Sonny B
07-06-2011, 06:45 PM
I've always been tempted to do it online, though I made it through the SP missions ok enough, I'd be a liability on multiplayer!

Joseph-Sulphur
07-06-2011, 06:46 PM
I've always been tempted to do it online, though I made it through the SP missions ok enough, I'd be a liability on multiplayer!
We're all liabilities, don't worry about it.

Batolemaeus
07-06-2011, 06:51 PM
I've always been tempted to do it online, though I made it through the SP missions ok enough, I'd be a liability on multiplayer!

Yesterday I crashed an apache and a littlebird for no kills, then leveled parts of a mosque after blowing up civilians that i mistook for hostiles with a volley of unguided rockets.

I still haven't been kicked.

Yet.

Unaco
07-06-2011, 06:56 PM
Yesterday I crashed an apache and a littlebird for no kills, then leveled parts of a mosque after blowing up civilians that i mistook for hostiles with a volley of unguided rockets.

I still haven't been kicked.

That's because you at least made the effort to make sure those civilians weren't friendlies before you shot them.

Head
07-06-2011, 07:03 PM
Oh shit i'm back. Looks like a fine night to drop back in.

Batolemaeus
07-06-2011, 09:51 PM
So, after our first mission I can say the following things:

The start was slow and some tactical errors were made. (Like letting the enemy patrol scout pass, who of course flanked us, and of course shot me in the back. Or us being all in the open on a ridge getting ripped apart by grenades)
But after that it went rather smoothly and radio discipline improved considerably. When we do this again, however, I'd definitely use one m24 per squad as the thing is very useful while limited both in ammo and lethality so it won't be used to clear entire villages from afar.

Sadly, my migraine forced me to quit after the first mission. Would join again, however.

Ansob
07-06-2011, 10:25 PM
For next time we do domi: can we have DMRs in, and M240 RCOs, and someone mod in a variant of the M60 that has some kind of optics that don't date back to WWII.

Also:
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382166481
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382109759
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382171031
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382208762
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382103436
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382213957
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Ansob/screenshot/541770095382094215

Infuriatingly, I missed getting a screenshot of the Linebacker hot-drop with flares action. That was the most dramatic bit of the mission and I didn't get a fucking screenshot of it. :(

kataras
07-06-2011, 10:36 PM
http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/20/arma2oa2011060722033978.png/

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/219/arma2oa2011060722034140.png/

copter going down...

also i would suggest even for adversarial missions to have squad channels, as I cannot make anything over VON as i kept hearing the other squad's talk on mumble.
Overall i really enjoyed tonight's session.

StrangLove
07-06-2011, 10:43 PM
For next time we do domi: can we have DMRs in, and M240 RCOs, and someone mod in a variant of the M60 that has some kind of optics that don't date back to WWII.

AFAIK there is only that version of the M60, which is a shame.

washington
07-06-2011, 11:21 PM
Domi was pretty good. Nice playing with you all.

Only have one screenshot and that from Escape. Managed to land this baby in the trees after a hectic try of a takeoff under fire. http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197980439066/screenshot/576672992478168100

IceRaiser
07-06-2011, 11:25 PM
Great session tonight boys.
Sorry Alex for the crash in Escape, I managed to kill you after I stopped trying :( /hug

oldmanbob
07-06-2011, 11:34 PM
I'm really disappointed that I missed tactical Domi :( :lol MMO commitments:

Wolfenswan
07-06-2011, 11:40 PM
The last 20+(?) minutes of this ArmA session i kept running through forests and fields without a single enemy contact and kept enjoying it. Says something about the social club.

ShowMeTheMonkey
08-06-2011, 12:01 AM
Great night of ArmA! Missed the epic domi mission however. I joined, chute failed and splattered from 1500 ft.... Spawned again. Mission complete. Damn.

Escape was unusually fun! But sabotage is a fantastic mode.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 02:48 AM
Wonderful Domi.

My suggestions for next time we do it:
1) That the CO sets up separate whispers for each squad leader, so other squad leaders aren't interrupted by other squads communicating with each other.
2) That inter-squad messages are prefaces with something like "charlie to overlord, charlie to overlord" which would give squad leaders time to quiet their squad down so they can hear the message.
3) Armour of some sort for the main infantry squads. Doing hot insertions would make taking towns a lot less time consuming.
4) Might want to split up the infantry more next time, I heard there was some problems with intersquad comms.

Things that were good:
I was leading charlie squad, and there was an excellent marriage of tactics and dicking around. We had lots of fun. People were quiet when I needed to hear something, but we still drove around in the tank we were rewarded due to a suspiciously accurate negligent discharge by the mortar operator. Of course, once Iceraiser was coming back the airbase, we quickly lined up and saluted, being careful to put the tank back where we got it.

Egg you need to post that picture you took.

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 06:19 AM
@Rossi :Jump in, details on the first page. (eh too late...)

Zargabad sounds good, last night was tense inside the city. Just hope I don't get a slideshow. I ll be joining tonight. What do people think about forming flexibly stable fire-teams? Like not that you have to join a specific one but if you feel you work better with three-four others and a specific team leader why not? I was happy with the team last night (Unaco, Null and Sinister), don't know what they thought of it...

I could get behind this idea - it would be useful to get to know a few people properly, as I generally find myself improvising a little too much, which means I'm not as useful to the team if I'm playing an important role like Medic or HugeGunMan. I thought that team went quite well, too - Unaco did a good job of leading the way, and with a bit of practice we could nail it to the point where mixing things up would be easier, too.

Sorry I missed Tactical last night. I was unconscious.

Also, has anyone played the 2 team domination game? I found that really interesting; it's basically two teams both fighting over each AO against the independents. Makes for some interesting tactical options. I've only seen a server running it once, though.


I've always been tempted to do it online, though I made it through the SP missions ok enough, I'd be a liability on multiplayer!

Seriously, don't worry about it. The only way to get even remotely competent at it is to jump right in. You'll learn really fast, and nobody will be a dick about it if you're not on the ball. Just the other week I managed to jump out of a jeep instead of firing at an enemy, and later stood staring at an enemy soldier about 20 feet away while pissing about in a menu I'd accidentally brought up, forcing someone else to jump in and save my dumb arse. And on one of my first missions, the only good shot I made in an hour took one of my own team's head off (I still do this when playing with randoms - I have a real knack for pulling off excellent long-range one-shot teamkills with the lee enfield). It's all in good fun, and you'll figure it out.

I do recommend playing around with a couple of guns in the editor mode though, just to give yourself a feel for the range and recoil issues. Not required, but it'll do wonders for your confidence.

Grizzly
08-06-2011, 07:29 AM
Also for tactical review: Trying to drive an M1A2 TUSK down an enclosed valley when we are not quite sure what is going on is a good way of getting it blown. Rather place it on a hill and let it provide fire support.

Rossi
08-06-2011, 09:12 AM
Sorry I couldn't make it last night. Got back from football and was knackered so just watched telly. Will be up for the next one though.

kataras
08-06-2011, 09:40 AM
Also for tactical review: Trying to drive an M1A2 TUSK down an enclosed valley when we are not quite sure what is going on is a good way of getting it blown. Rather place it on a hill and let it provide fire support.

Noooo, I think their getting blown up was the direct result of being too careful with the tank. They should have rushed in towards the town or whatever it was, while blowing up and mowing down anything in their way... Including those two choppers. Everyone knows, the more careful you are, the higher the chances of getting blown up. Fact.

But seriously, I think it went fine the whole Domi session, the comms were much more useful like this. I think the only problem was the whisper lists, as sometimes we could not hear Unaco talking. At one point we presumed he died...

fer
08-06-2011, 10:34 AM
Two observations and a caveat.

Caveat first: tight comms and co-ordination between elements is no guarantee of enjoyment. Some people enjoy ultra-tight comms and tactical playing styles, others can't enjoy themselves in a session unless there's a tonne of banter and helicopters full of players smashing into mountainsides at regular intervals. The spectrum of play-styles is a broad one, and what matters most is understanding what you are seeking at any given moment. Once you know your own preference, that's when you can properly assess the value (or not) of any particular procedure or protocol. You could absorb Zedic's Radio Procedure Guide (http://www.tacticalgamer.com/armed-assault-tactics-missions-mod-discussions/144417-zedics-radio-procedure-guide.html) and end up with the tightest comms in the ArmAverse, but you might also conclude that playing Radio Ham Simulator 2011 is not much fun (for you).

Observation (in the context of the above caveat): Element leaders can greatly influence the level of chatter through their own leadership style. If you begin each mission with a big discussion about the plan and options, you'll create a sense of shared ownership within the element(s). Objectively, that's not a negative; but it encourages players to be vocal with suggestions and requests during the execution of the plan. It's hard for people to switch over from "Now is when everyone gets a say" mode to "Now is when everyone follows commands with minimal discussion" mode. I'm not saying that the CO or element leaders shouldn't ask for feedback on plans, but you can minimise the jump between those two modes by making your requests quite focused, e.g. "MG element, are you confident about covering the village from hill X?" instead of "Does anyone have ideas for how we could cover the village?".

Observation: Personally, I think complex multi-part missions like Domi make it hard to adopt this style of leadership. The length of the mission, need to re-plan at frequent intervals, and availability of side-missions and toys, mean element leaders can soon find their people champing at the bit, eager to go off and do X, attempt Y, or drive Z. Moreover, if the element leader isn't doing a fab job, the duration means subordinates with leadership ambitions can become frustrated. It's for those reasons that Folk missions are much shorter and focused, because even if your element leader orders you to run at a Shilka with a pistol, you know that in 10-15 mins you'll have the opportunity to slot as an FTL. And get your revenge.

Returning to the caveat, though, you have to decide what you're going for in a session. RPS has the luxury of having 3 sessions now (if you include the Folk one), potentially allowing each to explore a different part of the LOL <----> HSLD play-style spectrum. The richness and diversity of gaming experiences one can get from that spectrum is one of the main reasons I love ArmAx, especially when one has the opportunity to explore it with good quality comrades.

Speaking of which, I though Wolfenswan did well leading Alpha last night in the tactical Domi, keeping us organised with his colour teams and orientations. My only recommendation is to replace "Follow Bravo" with "Move to X", where X is a landmark in Bravo's route. That allows you more control over your own element's movement, rather than ceeding it completely to the other element.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 10:57 AM
Wait, we have three sessions? I never knew we had three sessions. I just thought people turned up...

Ansob
08-06-2011, 11:10 AM
Also: please modify infantry domi to give us two Bradleys from the start. That way, we could have a mechanised infantry element if needed, or have those IFVs pushing up alongside infantry elements.

Also: please remove the mortars etc. from Charlie. By the time the infantry - especially Alpha, which kept getting hit by enemy flanking elements - got anywhere near the target, most of the village was in ruins. The Bradleys would make up for this.

Also: we really need much tighter comms between the infantry squads (and the eventual AFVs) so that all elements advance at the same time. Bravo kept running ahead (not blaming Unaco) since we kept running into surviving enemy pockets in our rear/flank.


Caveat first: tight comms and co-ordination between elements is no guarantee of enjoyment. Some people enjoy ultra-tight comms and tactical playing styles, others can't enjoy themselves in a session unless there's a tonne of banter and helicopters full of players smashing into mountainsides at regular intervals. The spectrum of play-styles is a broad one, and what matters most is understanding what you are seeking at any given moment.

The entire point of Tactical Tuesday is that it caters to the first type of people, though. :P The second get to play on Saturdays, where the atmosphere is a lot more relaxed.

e;
Wait, we have three sessions? I never knew we had three sessions. I just thought people turned up...

Tactical Tuesday, General Fuckery Saturday and Folk Sunday. Plus every other night, but those are the three "official" "sessions."

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 11:16 AM
I wasn't about yesterday, but I second the 'remove artillery' idea. It renders the infantry work really boring in other sessions I've played - you spend all that time getting there, and all you find are maybe two or three enemy, who are picked off by the spotter before you can even catch your breath.

Batolemaeus
08-06-2011, 11:22 AM
What about a mortar team but with limited ammo?

I like mortars. I really do, as they add some grandiosity to the whole thing with their explosions, but I dislike constant bombardment. If we had like 12 mortar shells for the entire mission, assembling and calling in mortar would be more of a tactical choice to clear out fortifications before storming in.

//edith: Thinking about it, limiting ammo much more could yield interesting results in general.

Harlander
08-06-2011, 11:26 AM
It's funny you should say that, as the current immense piles of mortar ammunition were implemented because people were sick of running out...

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 11:29 AM
What about a mortar team but with limited ammo?

I like mortars. I really do, as they add some grandiosity to the whole thing with their explosions, but I dislike constant bombardment. If we had like 12 mortar shells for the entire mission, assembling and calling in mortar would be more of a tactical choice to clear out fortifications before storming in.

//edith: Thinking about it, limiting ammo much more could yield interesting results in general.

This sounds like it could work.

I like the idea of limited ammo, too. It could mean scavenging and organising the occasional supply run, which is something I quite enjoy if it's done right. I like the feeling of, say, taking out an enemy chopper with a stinger you took from a guy you shot with a gun you stole from his mate in the next town. And then doing a quick pile-up of weapons in a car, and driving off to the next area.

Batolemaeus
08-06-2011, 11:36 AM
It's funny you should say that, as the current immense piles of mortar ammunition were implemented because people were sick of running out...

Quick psychology question here.
Would that change if the Mortar was salvaged from an enemy position?

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 11:37 AM
Mabe adding a mortar stryker, with much more limited ammo, as well as the bradleys could prevent massive mortar overkill. Just having 12 rounds of Mortar ammo for the entire mission essentially makes the mortars useless, as they do need to be guided onto the target and first round hits on vehicles and infantry formations are rare unless marked accurately. As it is, I think we need to either replace the Mortar entirely with mechanised support, or reduce the ammo moderately, so instead of 100x8 rounds we have 10x8 rounds, or stick in a mortar stryker with lower ammo to keep up with the bradleys and infantry.

Wolfenswan
08-06-2011, 11:43 AM
Maybe use the mortar for single barrages only, followed by an immediate infantry push?

Making the whole team motorized sounds good too.

GraveyardJimmy
08-06-2011, 11:44 AM
It renders the infantry work really boring in other sessions I've played - you spend all that time getting there, and all you find are maybe two or three enemy, who are picked off by the spotter before you can even catch your breath.

I did mention yesterday that Alpha squad were both times told to follow Bravo, who went ahead and did most fighting, with Charlie doing everything else. I mostly saw dead bodies the whole time, but my remark about this was responded to basically by "Oh its because Bravo are amazing haha".

One example: We spotted a BMP behind us, I move to engage (as the AT guy) and the Tusk comes tearing back to deal with it (from the front line), leaving me to watch. I get back to the attack and the tusk has beaten me to it, with Bravo squad flushing the village.

The adversarial missions were really fun and I dont think that the rest of my squad felt this way, but I felt a bit like it was Bravo+Charlie against the mission with me doing a dead body viewing simulator. I wasnt happy about how my concerns were treated by certain people either (basically I was ignored or laughed off.)

This post is a bit overly-negative as this wasnt reflective of the night at all really, just my experiences with Domi. I still had fun. The sabotage mission was great to try out from the saboteurs perspective. Apologies for my flying and deciding to turn off my engine mid hover in Jolly Green too.

Wolfenswan
08-06-2011, 11:48 AM
One example: We spotted a BMP behind us, I move to engage (as the AT guy) and the Tusk comes tearing back to deal with it (from the front line), leaving me to watch. I get back to the attack and the tusk has beaten me to it, with Bravo squad flushing the village.

Sorry for stealing the kill from you; the BMP was danger close to astute and me and asking the TUSK to rush back to assist seemed the best option for me as i was unsure if you'd make it in time.

I agree with the general flow of the mission not being too action-rich for alpha (possibly both squads due to mortar shelling). Attacking with separate squads from two sides might have been the better option in terms of play fun.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 12:11 PM
Making the infantry more mechanized would work a lot better than removing the mortars from charlie, I think. That way we could do a quick barrage, taking out key targets, and then rushing in with IFVs before the enemy has time to recover. After that, both the IFVs and the mortars could provide support, the IFVs by generally blowing things up, and the mortars by doing precision strikes on targets called out by the infantry on the ground.

Also, different approaches for the infantry would help with making it more action-rich, since both squads would have to deal with their own problems. This would also help with the intersquad comms, since we wouldn't need as much.

Ansob
08-06-2011, 12:12 PM
It's funny you should say that, as the current immense piles of mortar ammunition were implemented because people were sick of running out...

I'm the guy who giggles at taking an MLRS and an ammo truck and levelling literally every village on the map.

I also recognise that what is fun for me (killing everything) makes the game terrible for everyone else.

Limitless ammo for the mortar squad is one of those things.

e;
they do need to be guided onto the target and first round hits on vehicles and infantry formations are rare unless marked accurately.

Well, yes. That's rather the point. :P

e2; Bakke, links to those explosion and sound mods, please.

GraveyardJimmy
08-06-2011, 12:18 PM
Just got SThud, st movement and noblur from the first post. They look really good. Will have to try them out with an arma session soon.

Is Invasion 44 and noblur compatible?

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 12:47 PM
I'm the guy who giggles at taking an MLRS and an ammo truck and levelling literally every village on the map.


I think that was my first important role in ARPS, on the first gaming night I attended. Good times...

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 12:56 PM
I think that was my first important role in ARPS, on the first gaming night I attended. Good times...

It was quite unusual behaviour for a hostage, though.

I have been trying to get some practice in at anti-tank stuff, but honestly, 9 times out of 10 some other bastard or five will fire from 800m away as soon as I get a shot lined up. The other time, I'll get the hit (or a passing fly will detonate the rocket early) and then be torn to shreds before I can leg it. Woe.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 01:17 PM
Sinister, I was talking about levelling a town in an MLRS, although it was less fun than the hostage night...

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 01:34 PM
Ok, so.

____

First thing - Ice, this is the second (or third) time you've managed to ruin Escape. I don't care if you had tried to stop killing me, it still ruined the experience. Sort it out, or I'll just have a general rule of not playing with you anymore.

____

Second thing - That was one of the most enjoyable nights I've had with Domi, due to how coordinated, disciplined, and yet, fun it was.

HOWEVER - there were lots of improvements I felt were needed:

____

- The mortar completely ruined things. The point of the mortar is to be called in for specific targets - So, for the infantry on the ground to spot, observe, and call in a strike on a target, making adjustments to the zone of impact.

The problem wasn't that Charlie had plenty of ammunition for the mortar, and plenty of rockets. The problem, was that Charlie were like a dog that had been let off its leash; they were running wild around the map, taking out all targets before we could get there, so that when Bravo and Alpha moved in, we had to deal with about 10 insurgents per town, with maybe a helicopter or two.

I was under the impression that Charlie were supposed to be a squad that would be called in to deal with certain things, not just the squad that would get all the toys and then be unleashed. Sure, an Abrams and a Linebacker were sent in near the end, but all they did was shoot down some helos, and take out about 5 infantry because everything else was dead, leaving Charlie with ~150 kills, and Bravo with ~20. I cannot account for Alpha's kills.

So perhaps in the next domi we play, we could have Charlie sitting back, and waiting for an FO from Charlie attached to another squad, calling in strikes on a target, like a mosque, or tank (Edit: That the current troops are having difficulty with); otherwise, it's no fun for the footsloggers.

____

- I feel that Bravo and Alpha were too close together; whether that's a symptom of poor squad management (Which I don't think is the issue) or poor planning, we were overlapping most times, with Alpha just following Bravo, not really getting involved. GraveyardJimmy has suggested that Bravo and Alpha take separate choppers, possibly Black Hawks, and assault from different locations. Otherwise there's a risk of one squad sitting out. If there hadn't been a mortar squad however, then there may have been more for Alpha to kill, and they wouldn't have felt so left out - Not sure.

But an alternate approach by one of the squads would have been fun, and supertactical etc. There were enough people in each squad to hold our own against whoever's in the town, so I think it could work. Possibly even moreso if we adapt the mechanised inf. role that Ansob and a few others were talking about.

____

- There was no point having a designated marksmen in the squad, as we didn't have the DMR which gives increased zoom. The rifles we could use didn't zero to a high enough distance for the DM role to be worth it. If we had DMRs or M24s, then happy days.

- Not having a dedicated AA trooper really punished us at the beginning, with the Mi-24 and the Su-25. We were only saved really, by Joseph being lucky enough to spawn in just after it killed a load of us, so he could pick up a Stinger and try to take it out.

- AT troopers were completely (In Bravo's team at least; Alpha did have a use for it, but the Abrams killed the target first.) redundant. A complete lack of intact targets meant that it was just a better option for me to fire off MAAWS rockets at Helos.

____

Ansob: I use WarFX: Blastcore, and VOPsounds.

Blastcore - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12975

VOPsounds - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=5885

Although with VOPsounds, it doesn't have that much for OA. GraveyardJimmy recommended JSRS, so I'll czech that out.

____

Re: Adversarial T-55 mission

Sorry that we went past the boundary, but don't get mad at us - it was marked incorrectly.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 01:38 PM
- The mortar completely ruined things. The point of the mortar is to be called in for specific targets - So, for the infantry on the ground to spot, observe, and call in a strike on a target, making adjustments to the zone of impact.

The problem wasn't that Charlie had plenty of ammunition for the mortar, and plenty of rockets. The problem, was that Charlie were like a dog that had been let off its leash; they were running wild around the map, taking out all targets before we could get there, so that when Bravo and Alpha moved in, we had to deal with about 10 insurgents per town, with maybe a helicopter or two.


I was given specific instructions by Liqourish, from Ice, to engage any and all targets that would present a threat to troops on the ground.

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 01:40 PM
I was given specific instructions by Liqourish, from Ice, to engage any and all targets that would present a threat to troops on the ground.

So you were let off the leash, which was my point. That's not how a special weapons team should work.

Heliosicle
08-06-2011, 01:42 PM
One example: We spotted a BMP behind us, I move to engage (as the AT guy) and the Tusk comes tearing back to deal with it (from the front line), leaving me to watch. I get back to the attack and the tusk has beaten me to it, with Bravo squad flushing the village.


to be fair Jimmy, we were asked to come back by your squad leader. And on your point about Bravo being in front - we just got to places before you, the 2 missions were almost completely clear by the time we got there thanks to the mortar fire, we only saw a bit more combat than you.

Heliosicle
08-06-2011, 01:43 PM
I was given specific instructions by Liqourish, from Ice, to engage any and all targets that would present a threat to troops on the ground.
There's got to be some threat to troops on the ground or its no fun!

GraveyardJimmy
08-06-2011, 01:48 PM
to be fair Jimmy, we were asked to come back by your squad leader.

Separate whisper lists meant I didn't know this. It was pretty annoying to be trying to do my AT role as Alpha seemed to be rear guard to see everything get one for you.


And on your point about Bravo being in front - we just got to places before you, the 2 missions were almost completely clear by the time we got there thanks to the mortar fire, we only saw a bit more combat than you.

Its not just you got there before us, on the first town we were told to follow and support, not go at the same time.

A note about Charlie that isn't meant to be as bitchy as it sounds- I noticed Charlie as generally made up of regulars using the big guns, isn't this what people were annoyed about on Sunday?

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 01:49 PM
So you were let off the leash, which was my point. That's not how a special weapons team should work.

I engaged stuff that my spotter marked, which seems pretty to the book. Perhaps you should inform me as to how a special weapons team is meant to work?

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 01:50 PM
Sinister, I was talking about levelling a town in an MLRS, although it was less fun than the hostage night...

You spoil all my jokes :(

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 01:52 PM
I engaged stuff that my spotter marked, which seems pretty to the book. Perhaps you should inform me as to how a special weapons team is meant to work?

You seem to be thinking that I'm blaming you - this is not the case. You did exactly as you were told. I'm saying that the current system of killing everything isn't working. Read my post if you want an idea of how I believe it's supposed to work.

Wolfenswan
08-06-2011, 01:58 PM
do we need mortars so desperately? What about two full squads and charlie being the tank/mechanized support? For all i care there could be a (limited amount of) A10s. Can mortar barrages be scripted to work like the air drops?

PS:
If this is going to focus around improving our Tac Tuesday experience on Domi (which i wouldn't mind becoming a stable) we should create a Google Doc.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 01:59 PM
You seem to be thinking that I'm blaming you - this is not the case. You did exactly as you were told. I'm saying that the current system of killing everything isn't working. Read my post if you want an idea of how I believe it's supposed to work.

No, I do not think you're blaming me, I just think that your suggestions are somewhat poor, as having to wait for a fire mission is not fun, it's just boring. I also don't like the way you refer to Charlie as being off the leash, when we were as professional and constrained as any of the other fireteams.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 01:59 PM
do we need mortars so desperately? What about two full squads and charlie being the tank/mechanized support?

Sounds good to me, I'm as happy driving a tank as I am behind a mortar.

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 02:01 PM
No, I do not think you're blaming me, I just think that your suggestions are somewhat poor, as having to wait for a fire mission is not fun, it's just boring. I also don't like the way you refer to Charlie as being off the leash, when we were as professional and constrained as any of the other fireteams.

So the consensus seems to be this - Either you have no fun, or we have no fun. So why do we need mortars? We've got the artillery FMs already.

And you were off the leash, in that you were able to shoot everything you wanted, whereas we were literally being told to hold back whilst the mortars kill everyone.

GraveyardJimmy
08-06-2011, 02:01 PM
Cross posted from steam group chat:

The problem is that having too much stuff means that the 2 squads on the ground dont do much, while charlie seem to do everything. Thats not a problem with what Charlie were doing, but how things were set up. If we had no support team, but instead a javelin per squad or a light vehicle (maybe a apc with weaponry), or even a laser designated support from an A-10 or something, the foot squads would feel more involved.

Also, we should encourage new people to join in support squads etc, so it is not the same people using the big effective weapons.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 02:04 PM
So the consensus seems to be this - Either you have no fun, or we have no fun. So why do we need mortars? We've got the artillery FMs already.

Read my last post.

oldmanbob
08-06-2011, 02:07 PM
Domination variants on the server have just been removed, I'm cooking something new up (you ingrates)

Wolfenswan
08-06-2011, 02:09 PM
Domination variants on the server have just been removed, I'm cooking something new up (you ingrates)

everybody gets a mortar?

btw. we're having an online discussion over several pages now without anybody raging, calling people worse than hitler or comparing stuff to the holocaust. arps is truly teh best.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 02:10 PM
Secondary solution, play Air Assault.

kataras
08-06-2011, 02:23 PM
I think this is getting too serious, almost as serious as the Final Solution?
In the worst case we can try different methods, armor instead of mortars, rotating squads to lead and back up etc... It's just a game and the important thing is that we enjoy ourselves as much as possible.
I mean all this arguing about who was in front, who should/shouldn't come back to help etc is a bit too much?? It happened like that and we can try different things and see how it goes. I was in Bravo and did not do much shooting as I was busy healing/reviving but it was ok, I still had fun with it. I mean this is worse than Hitler! HITLERRRRRRRRRR

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 02:24 PM
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596939190798114888/7DA797B91F1CFC762120E20E7ADD02BB2910BADB/

'Cause egg has yet to post it, above is a photo of the glorious Charlie team.

egg651
08-06-2011, 02:25 PM
You posted it literally seconds before I was going to. >.<

P.S: Charlie squad is the best.
P.P.S: Gotta love the glorious anti-aliasing level on my PC...

Wolfenswan
08-06-2011, 02:28 PM
P.P.S: Gotta love the glorious anti-aliasing level on my PC... I was relieved to see someone having even worse graphics than i do. Also, turning Anti-Aliasing on on my rig creates wonderful white artifacts on trees and general vegetation due to an ATI-issue.

Joseph-Sulphur
08-06-2011, 03:23 PM
Can we burn the last few pages of this thread? It's like reading the script of an episode of 90210 with a cast of amateur milsimmers.

IceRaiser
08-06-2011, 04:25 PM
Here we go:


[...]or I'll just have a general rule of not playing with you anymore.

I'll keep away from you, deal?



- The mortar completely ruined things. The point of the mortar is to be called in for specific targets - So, for the infantry on the ground to spot, observe, and call in a strike on a target, making adjustments to the zone of impact.

We(Me and Liq) were bugging Alpha and Bravo SL's to mark targets or tell if they needed any specific support.
When we didn't and just saw them getting torn to shreds I ordered Liq to bring down hell on earth on anything made out of more then 10kg metal.



I was under the impression that Charlie were supposed to be a squad that would be called in to deal with certain things, not just the squad that would get all the toys and then be unleashed.

They got mortars, a javelin and perhaps a sniper.
...just like a fire support team.



So perhaps in the next domi we play, we could have Charlie sitting back, and waiting for an FO from Charlie attached to another squad, calling in strikes on a target, like a mosque, or tank (Edit: That the current troops are having difficulty with); otherwise, it's no fun for the footsloggers.

The problem with infantry domi is that enemies are they same as regular domi, meaning Tanks, BMP's M113, UAZ's, Shielkas, and so on. Things that "footsloggers" have a big problem dealing with.



- I feel that Bravo and Alpha were too close together; whether that's a symptom of poor squad management (Which I don't think is the issue) or poor planning, we were overlapping most times, with Alpha just following Bravo, not really getting involved.

First attack on (nur?), Alpha was to follow Bravo down the slope and the proceed with a joint "fire-line" into town, after a lot of casualties Unaco made the bold move to suggest taking his squad more east to spread out the line, which worked perfectly.
When attacking the second town I wanted both squads on a huge line walking towards to town so that noone was left behind while 2 ppl got all the kills/contacts.
Looking at the map, that didn't seem to work at all.



- There was no point having a designated marksmen in the squad, as we didn't have the DMR which gives increased zoom. The rifles we could use didn't zero to a high enough distance for the DM role to be worth it. If we had DMRs or M24s, then happy days.

Next time we can try adding a real sniper element to charlie/delta and you can run around as a wookie :)



- Not having a dedicated AA trooper really punished us at the beginning, with the Mi-24 and the Su-25. We were only saved really, by Joseph being lucky enough to spawn in just after it killed a load of us, so he could pick up a Stinger and try to take it out.

My fault, I forgot to tell Charlie to deal with those things too.



- AT troopers were completely (In Bravo's team at least; Alpha did have a use for it, but the Abrams killed the target first.) redundant. A complete lack of intact targets meant that it was just a better option for me to fire off MAAWS rockets at Helos.

Bring down the tank/bmp ratio and add some UAZ/M113's instead and the mortars are unnecessary 'cuz the "footsloggers" can deal with them.

And as previously stated, we need Bradleys. or atleast humvees.

oldmanbob
08-06-2011, 04:36 PM
There is an option in the parameters to reduce the amount of armour that spawns, so I won't be changing that manually. If you want less, that's up to the admin to set up, or you to bug the admin to set up.

IceRaiser
08-06-2011, 04:48 PM
Sweet, I had no idea that there was those kind of options on there.

I'll try to write down some sort of AAR tonight so y'all can see where I failed :P

It was great fun to try and lead ('twas alot harder then I remember) and a BIG thanks to my knights/SL's Unaco, Liqourish and Wulf (who's nick is Wolf-something. always forget, sorry).

oldmanbob
08-06-2011, 04:53 PM
I'm hoping to run an organised Domination again tonight with a version I will be uploading Soon™.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 05:09 PM
Just in general, I find this discussion awesome. I love that people are arguing about how to make domi even more fun. :D



So the consensus seems to be this - Either you have no fun, or we have no fun. So why do we need mortars? We've got the artillery FMs already.

And you were off the leash, in that you were able to shoot everything you wanted, whereas we were literally being told to hold back whilst the mortars kill everyone.

I don't think we ever called down artillery, or at least I never ordered it. We agreed that it isn't very fun, since there's very little player involvement. The mortar involved people working together to stop targets.

However, waiting for the mortars to finish murdering everything before the infantry moves in is Bad. Next time, I think we should play toys domi, but restrict ourselves to only certain toys. So that we can have a mortar barrage, followed by a tank push, with two IFVs with infantry rushing into town to murder everything, and capture the objectives.


Dammit I don't know how to add another quote but Jimmy said some things that I will now respond to:

The problem was that the support squad wasn't supporting, it was murdering everyone.

Infantry squads need AA in some form (a stinger?) and dedicated AT (a maaws or a javelin). Vehicles for the infantry squads would improve things immensely, since they could move in and kill things much faster, without getting bogged down in infantry skirmishes on the outskirts of town. IFVs would be in order, I think.

I'm not sure about A-10s, since it's harder to call out targets once you're in the town. It might be even more likely that the infantry gets stuck outside while someone in an A-10 blows everything to hell. Infantry can't exactly advance into the soon-to-be inferno.

Charlie shouldn't be the toy squad, it should be the support squad. Honestly, I find supporting other squads more fun than overseeing massive destruction (I know, I'm messed up.)

So, general suggestion for plan next time:

1) Charlie scouts, maybe blows up some initial targets to clear the way for:
2) Infantry squad zooms into town in IFVs, raising hell, etc. (come in from different directions, for good measure)
3) Infantry dismounts and starts completes objectives, while calling out targets for charlie to blow up from far away.
4) ???
5) Profit!
(sorry)

Monty
08-06-2011, 05:11 PM
Just an idea, but a coloured M203 smoke grenade can be an extremely useful tool for directing air support.

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 05:30 PM
Here we go:

We(Me and Liq) were bugging Alpha and Bravo SL's to mark targets or tell if they needed any specific support.
When we didn't and just saw them getting torn to shreds I ordered Liq to bring down hell on earth on anything made out of more then 10kg metal.

The only time we were getting really torn to shreds, was when we were dealing with the Hind that caught everyone off guard - The hind took out most of Bravo, and some from Alpha. Then grenades/rockets took some of the squad out again. So, we took out the hind and got to reviving everyone - By the time we crested the hill however, all vehicle targets at Nur - Targets that we were equipped to deal with - were destroyed, and most infantry were dead. We came into no contact with vehicles during the entire mission, save a shilka and a BTR that the Abrams dealt with.



They got mortars, a javelin and perhaps a sniper.
...just like a fire support team.


The problem, however, is that they're not supporting - throughout the mission they were the main offence, the main way of dealing with tanks and infantry alike.



The problem with infantry domi is that enemies are they same as regular domi, meaning Tanks, BMP's M113, UAZ's, Shielkas, and so on. Things that "footsloggers" have a big problem dealing with.


That's a bit of a stretch. Infantry, with the right equipment, can deal with most stuff. Saying "Oh well there're tanks there, so we might as well send in the big guns" is a little premature.



First attack on (nur?), Alpha was to follow Bravo down the slope and the proceed with a joint "fire-line" into town, after a lot of casualties Unaco made the bold move to suggest taking his squad more east to spread out the line, which worked perfectly.
When attacking the second town I wanted both squads on a huge line walking towards to town so that noone was left behind while 2 ppl got all the kills/contacts.
Looking at the map, that didn't seem to work at all.



It worked out in the end with Nur, but I think that advancing behind a unit is always a poor idea to implement.



Next time we can try adding a real sniper element to charlie/delta and you can run around as a wookie :)



Sure, but we should take the DMR as well.




Bring down the tank/bmp ratio and add some UAZ/M113's instead and the mortars are unnecessary 'cuz the "footsloggers" can deal with them.


As long as we have AT troopers, we should be able to deal with a few tanks; we have in the past.

Joseph-Sulphur
08-06-2011, 05:31 PM
Just an idea, but a coloured M203 smoke grenade can be an extremely useful tool for directing air support.
They are the very devil to aim though, since the in-game iron sights for M203s are useless and they bounce absolutely everywhere. But it would be better better than "Oh yeah, kill that house with the um, balcony, thing".

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 05:37 PM
I should also add that the mod 'WarFX:Blastcore' increases the amount of smoke that a smoke grenades release by a fair amount, which makes it incredibly easy to spot the stuff.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 05:40 PM
Sidethought: I'd hate to replace the infantry mortar with a mortar stryker. Not only is the stryker a chore to move about, but the infantry mortar presents the interesting logistical problem of finding enough backs to stick it on.

Joseph-Sulphur
08-06-2011, 05:59 PM
Whoever is the boss tonight decides what we use. My vote is no artillery at all.

GraveyardJimmy
08-06-2011, 06:03 PM
I have a version of Domi for Invasion 1944 if anyone would like to try it sometime? Airdrops from C-47s and P51s as a reward. It has revive, jeeps, shermans, weapon resting etc, got it from another server.

Ansob
08-06-2011, 06:29 PM
having to wait for a fire mission is not fun, it's just boring.

It's what artillery does.

If you don't like waiting for someone to ask you to blow shit up once every ten to fifteen minutes, don't play artillery! It's that simple. There are other things you can do that don't involve sitting around waiting for someone to call in a target. By definition, arty is an incredibly laid back role (useful for when you want to read a book).

The solution here is to remove the unlimited mortar and mechanise the infantry squads.

We could also keep Delta as a support squad, swap Charlie FO for Delta Engi (so the squads are 2xEngi//2xFO), then replace the rest of Delta with just Riflemen (except the Medic and SL) and leave a man-portable mortar with ~12 shells in base which the Delta Riflemen can carry. This is more work, though.

e; also, enforcing class/kit was really nice. Can we do that all the time now (except maybe Sat)?

Joseph-Sulphur
08-06-2011, 06:31 PM
It was great back when we had the support squad, we were basically a mobile Zeus battery

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 07:18 PM
e; also, enforcing class/kit was really nice. Can we do that all the time now (except maybe Sat)?

I agree with not letting everyone just pick whatever they want, leaving the squad with 4 AT guys, 2 machinegunners, and one guy who picked up an m32 with flares; however, I'm not sure that we should necessarily stick to what the label in the lobby says. For example, I don't think there's AA included by default which is clearly needed.

I think what would work well is that with exception to the medic, the SL calls out squad roles, and people volunteer for them. That way we can be flexible without everyone just doing whatever they want and screwing up the composition.

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 07:27 PM
I don't think there's AA included by default which is clearly needed.



There are two AT troopers per squad, so you could replace one with AA.

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 07:49 PM
They are the very devil to aim though, since the in-game iron sights for M203s are useless and they bounce absolutely everywhere. But it would be better better than "Oh yeah, kill that house with the um, balcony, thing".

Arma needs paintball guns.

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 10:28 PM
That was intense, excellent work by all (especially Charlie), I was glad to see teamwork (Especially Charlie squad's) and it was nice to have a support role that wasn't overkill (Especially because it was Charlie)

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 10:38 PM
I think strang might be having an affair with someone called Charlie.

Bravo were clearly best. We didn't alert the whole town and get butchered, for a start. GLOVES OFF.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 10:39 PM
Good session mates!

'Twas an honor to command you all.

The squad leaders all did exceptionally well, especially Xenu. He barely lost any men in that first, bloody assault! The more complicated comms seemed to work rather well, especially once we got into the habit of identifying ourselves before talking.

The initial assault on the first town made it abundantly clear that we can't do domi without proper support. In that vein, I humbly request that we either get mortars back (with limited ammo) or have someone flying around with an A-10. The A-10 is nice, since there's some interesting coordinating to be done, but on the other hand it means that someone is going to be up in the air doing nothing most of the time.

IFVs for the infantry would also help greatly, since it means they could assault the town easier without getting bogged down on the outskirts due to bunkers and MGs.

I'd love to hear more about how the new comms worked out for SLs, since I was in the lonely CO seat and didn't have to talk to anyone other than you guys (and occasionally bob)

StrangLove
08-06-2011, 10:48 PM
The Comms were nice, I have some brief points:

- FAC must not be SL as well, it's far too hectic.

- The A10 seems to work better than the Mortars, and still presents a 'logistical problem' in the refuel and rearm capacity.

- Protocol has to be established as to who is talking to who, for example 'CO to ALL' or 'BRAVO lead to ALL', or 'CHARLIE lead to CO'. At several points I was confused as to which channel I should reply down.

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 11:01 PM
I'm still sore that I got cut off just as I was about to be given the all clear to go snipe crazy. There were so many heads that had asked to be exploded, and I'd assured them that I would help them out any minute now. But it was not to be.

Anthile
08-06-2011, 11:15 PM
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/540644737604608461/D34AE6F185B03894AC30E345623E4F48528C7664/

That is all.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 11:19 PM
Oooh, sidenote: we need to work on contact drills more. I'm not sure how well things went tonight, seeing as I was a lonely commander, but in general that would be good.

Brnin8r
08-06-2011, 11:26 PM
The new comms work well, but I think it would be even better to have a protocol regarding who is speaking and who the player is talking to as StrangLove suggested. I never got around to using the A-10 for CAS since I kind of forgot about it, i think having the marksman of the squad take over the FAC duties is a good option since they are mostly providing overwatch anyway.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 11:29 PM
I think it might be better to have someone other than the marksman doing it, since spotting targets and marking them are two separate things. The marksman will be better at overwatch if he doesn't have to lase.

SvDvorak
08-06-2011, 11:29 PM
Darn, I didn't know you were going to be all tactical on a wednesday, I would have joined. About the A-10, having it wait at the airstrip for command sounds intriguing to me, just have a browser or a book nearby and then respond whenever an order is recieved; it also makes the actual bombing more intense because of the delay between them. Also, bombing manually is hard I must say, I think I'll have to go practise a bit.

sinister agent
08-06-2011, 11:34 PM
I think it might be better to have someone other than the marksman doing it, since spotting targets and marking them are two separate things. The marksman will be better at overwatch if he doesn't have to lase.

A sniper-spotter team could cover both, surely? I suppose it might depend on numbers as much as anything, though. I could have done some lasing if I'd bought the gear today, but you're right that once things heated up a bit, doing that would have meant I couldn't cover my team at all.

Alex Bakke
08-06-2011, 11:35 PM
The JTAC should also be the Artilleryguy, as JTACs also concern themselves with that stuff in real life.

Liqourish
08-06-2011, 11:42 PM
I'm not a fan of using the offscreen artillery, since there's little player involvement, but in general, yes. As long as it's someone who can actually concentrate on it.

SvDvorak: I doubt you'd have time to read a book, you'd pretty much be up in the air from the start, only going down for rearms, and I guess when the objective is almost completed and the infantry are storming in.

Nullkigan
08-06-2011, 11:49 PM
VOICE OF GOD, LISTEN AND OBEY (...Comrades)

We have the new test server for the next 30 days, but we've only got 5-6 days to decide whether or not we're actually going to move to it. In that time I also need to set up a server instance for Folk and come up with a patching strategy (because there are no linux patches and you can't run the windows ones on linux - you have to patch on windows then transfer the files across manually :().

I'd like you to keep using the test server as much as possible and report any problems and whether or not performance seems better than the old server. I know we were having some connection issues tonight, but I don't know if they were (a) a statistical outlier (b) de rigeur for this provider (c) the linux server binaries fault. There's a long thread on the BIS forums that says linux server performance is less than ideal, which I wish I had read before we'd asked for that configuration. If necessary, we can just about afford windows as well, but I don't want to push our budgets if the peering is poor. I'll try to post a budget summary tomorrow, too.

Pay special attention the the performance of the server after an hour or two of play, if you're an admin use #monitor and keep a rough track of fps counts.

---

Also, not having to listen to any of you jabber was blissful tonight. Xenu Squad Best Squad.

SvDvorak
09-06-2011, 12:55 AM
I was thinking more along the lines of only taking out lased armour or something along those lines. I'd emphasize that you use support only if you're able to accept the time it takes for it to get there. I'd also like to add that rearming takes quite a while too.

Either way if we're using A-10's, I vote for trying out to only use GAU-8 and Hydras since those lock-on rockets are really boring to use while bombs are hard to aim and level a town. I played around a bit a few minutes ago and you're able to take down a couple of vehicles before you need to rearm (this depends on how well the strafing runs go ofc). It's also alot of fun and requires more from the player than just locking on and firing a rocket.

Also, sweet Null! What are the benefits of this new server compared to the old one?

Liqourish
09-06-2011, 12:59 AM
Strafing runs with the cannon would also be appreciated, as they're useful for taking out all that infantry, as well as looking badass.

SvDvorak
09-06-2011, 01:08 AM
I'm not sure how effective strafing against infantry would be unless you got a very specific path to strafe along, the splash isn't big enough for random strafing to do much damage if I remember correctly.

Liqourish
09-06-2011, 01:23 AM
Well in that case you can always strafe light vehicles. The main point is lots of gunfire and explosions.

sinister agent
09-06-2011, 02:06 AM
With proper recon, lasing the heavy armour should be easy enough, especially if we go at night again. Waiting around is less of an issue then, and lighter stuff can be done in with rockets or grenade launchers.

Ansob
09-06-2011, 08:24 AM
- The A10 seems to work better than the Mortars, and still presents a 'logistical problem' in the refuel and rearm capacity.

There's never really been a problem with the A-10 as long as its pilot didn't simply use it to go strafing everything with the GAU-8. Back in the days of all-Domi, we just had bob circling at altitude waiting for a lased target, and then dropping bombs on it, and it was good. That's why it got put in to Domi permanently. :P

Batolemaeus
09-06-2011, 08:50 AM
I'm not sure how effective strafing against infantry would be unless you got a very specific path to strafe along, the splash isn't big enough for random strafing to do much damage if I remember correctly.

Splash not, but boy does that thing spread if you start shooting from further out.

One strafing run with the cannon and no missiles on the air attack mission thingy netted me 40 kills..

Liqourish
09-06-2011, 09:42 AM
A-10 in general sounds quite good. Still need IFVs though.

kataras
09-06-2011, 11:00 AM
Well last night I had some minor stutter but nothing major, maybe it was just the AI spawning? In any case it did not hinder my ability to play.
Also, I had Arma2 crash during the game. When trying to rejoin, I got a 'connection refused' message but trying a second time it worked so I didn't have Unaco's problems.

Having said that, are we, er, 'stress testing' the server again tonight? And yes it was good to be in a silent squad (maybe I m getting too old?).

y2rich
09-06-2011, 11:06 AM
I really want this game. Tempted to just drop the £20 for it on Steam rather than wait for it to be cheap again.

kataras
09-06-2011, 11:25 AM
I really want this game. Tempted to just drop the £20 for it on Steam rather than wait for it to be cheap again.
If you can spare it and your PC can play it, then I would say go for it. It s not that hard to learn, it s fun playing with ARPS and the experience is so varied that you can keep playing it for a long time (BFBC2 got a bit old for me after 3 months for example.)
Maybe someone else could tell you if it s better getting it for Steam or not (I dont have it on Steam so I dont know if there are particular issues or not).

play is 12.something quid : http://www.play.com/Games/PC/4-/9004913/ARMA-II-Armed-Assault/Product.html?searchtype=allproducts&searchsource=0&searchstring=arma+2&urlrefer=search&cur=257

But I would suggest buying Combined Operations as we usually play a bit of both Arma2 base and Operation Arrowhead. Or if you want to get only one of them, if I m not mistaken, OA is the one we play on more often.

y2rich
09-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Aye I've already got Arma 2, just want to get Operation Arrowhead now. Did mention this a few pages ago but reading your reports of the action has made me want it more.

StrangLove
09-06-2011, 11:55 AM
There's never really been a problem with the A-10 as long as its pilot didn't simply use it to go strafing everything with the GAU-8. Back in the days of all-Domi, we just had bob circling at altitude waiting for a lased target, and then dropping bombs on it, and it was good. That's why it got put in to Domi permanently. :P

Well, what I really meant was in the vein of what liqourish was referring to earlier in chat, in that the inf Mortar needs a couple of people carrying it. It's not so much a real problem, but it does add a small hurdle.

Liqourish
09-06-2011, 12:38 PM
oh oh! Can we please use (red?) smoke shot from an EGLM to market targets for cannon strafing? That would also make for badass occasions:

*PLUNK*
*fsshh*
*BRAAAAAAP*

SvDvorak
09-06-2011, 12:44 PM
That might be true come to think of it... but the role of the A-10 in domi is to eliminate things that are a problematic for infantry, ie tanks, air, etc.

I did some more flying today and timed how long it took to RTB, rearm and return to target. I think it took about 6 minutes to RTB, rearm and then return to target with a target that was 8km out. I'm guessing there would be a 2-3 minute delay between order and completion during actual play (I would prefer if you don't have it circling, you shouldn't be calling it in for every single target).

I would like to do some more tactical play tonight, try out the new server and all.

Nullkigan
09-06-2011, 12:53 PM
[[EDIT - All missions transferred. Except for two, which nobody will notice. In the future, all mission names need to be lowercase and have [square brackets], not (curved parentheses) only. Spaces in filenames are permissable, but ideally underscores_should_be_used_instead.]]

So here's the financial report I promised:

ARPS Coffers: £515 (to last 6+ months).
Top three donors: IceRaiser, Kataras, Bodge.

Folk Consideration: up to £35 a month in exchange for a server instance, potentially switching the RPS server off during events to compensate for increased demand (because we play with them anyway)

After each price I'm listing the state of our treasury after we make the payment, EXCLUSIVE of any agreement with Folk. But we really want to help them out because they're awesome and the Free Trial Server is in their name.

Current server: 2x2.4 GHz, 2 GB DDR2, 0.08TB 10K HDD.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;£398 (+£117).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;UK. ~35-40 players. Expires 16/06/11

OVH FTS: 4x3.1 GHz, 16 GB DDR3, 2x120 GB SSD in RAID 1 (mirror).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;£528 (£-13, -£103 if we want Windows 2008 Web).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;France. JestServers colo here.

Other offers:

KillerCreation R300: 4x2.4 GHz, 4 GB DDR2, 250GB 7.2K HDD, Windows.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;£550 (£-35)
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;UK, decent support, known connection quality. Not a huge upgrade :/

OVH Kimsufi i5-16G: 4x.2.66 GHz, 16 GB DDR3, 2x1TB 7.2K HDD in RAID 1 (mirrior).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;£319 (+£196, +£106 with Windows 2008 Web).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;France. JestServers colo here.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;(It's actually a child company so no free trial)

Hetzner EQ4: 4x2.66 GHz, 8 GB DDR3, 2x0.75TB 7.2K HDDs in RAID 1 (mirrior).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;£410 (+£105, +£20 with Windows 2008 Web).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Germany. JestServers colo here, too. Folk rent from Jest in this datacentre.

Snelserver Quad: 4x3.06 GHz, 6 GB DDR 3, 2x0.5TB 7.2K HDDs.
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;£540 (-£25, -£80 with Windows 2008 Web).
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;Netherlands. ServerFFS partner (if anyone knows them)

To improve performance, we ideally want (a) a good connection and (b) a high cpu speed. A little bit more RAM would be nice, too. Secondary cores do not add huge performance gains as the primary thread is the most onerous one.

All these servers are on 100mbit connections. I don't THINK we'd have any improvement from switching over to more expensive gigabit ones, given our player counts.

I'm still open to other offers, but we're running out of time.

SvDvorak
09-06-2011, 01:10 PM
Excellent work Null on finding all those alternatives!

I just have to ask one question... are we straining the server as it is right now? I haven't seen any numbers during peak times, so I'm curious to if we're maxing the server out as it is.

The OVH FTS does look amazingly awesome but that price is quite high... if we're not at the limit of our current server then maybe the Hetzner EQ4 would do, it's worked well for Folk hasn't it? Ofc, if we're splitting a server with Folk then maybe it's worth to get something pimping. I'd also like to add that I got a job in a couple of weeks so I will soon be able to go crazy with donations (not Ice-crazy maybe, but a bit insane).

Also, I would like a piechart :D

Nullkigan
09-06-2011, 01:26 PM
Yes, the current server is struggling a little, especially during high turnout events. Day to day performance is more or less adequate, but not sufficient for running a second instance of ARMA2 on the same box.

Folk are currently hosted by Jest, on a non-dedicated server. His spec for a 64 player server is (EDIT to remove specifics as he originally wanted them kept quiet) an overclocked CPU and about 1 GB RAM on an SSD. I'm not sure what a 20 slot server gets.


http://www.ranthold.com/images/piechart.jpg

... I went and converted all the missions to lowercase. I'll push them over to the new server later.

Edit: DONE.

Unaco
09-06-2011, 02:10 PM
OK... here's the problem I had last night, in case anyone out there may know how to fix it.

I could connect to the server, and I could get to the lobby, and at the start I could choose my slot and OK. When we first kicked it, I started downloading the map/mission, got to the end of the download, and then I got an error about Vehicles.sqf or similar, and I got a black map, no mission details, and was somewhat kicked out... I spawned, I think, but in Rasman Run the mission we had just been playing on the previous server. My rprt has plenty (several thousand) of messages about "Unexpected Vehicle type" or similar. When I connected again, no matter if I had the .pbo in my folder, either from the server download, or from a link Null game me, the server would download again, and the same thing would happen... I could join the lobby, pick a slot, see Global messages and deaths/friendly fire etc, hit OK, I would download the map, it would show getting to within 3-4KB of complete, then stop (but I'd have the pbo in my folder afterwards), then the download dialogue would be replaced with "Receiving Data" and would stick there. The only thing I could do was hit escape to disconnect from the server.

The 'Receiving Data' error seems to have come up for a few people, from a Google search. I tried pretty much everything, restarted ArmA/Steam/Comp/Router. Tried getting the pbo from somewere other than the server. Opened all the ports on my router. Tried a new profile. Verified my install through Steam. Cleared out my mission caches. Tried a temp dir for my configs. Nothing seemed to work. Something I did did do something... After a while (when I cleared my rprt I think, to write a fresh one), when I joined the Lobby the slots were all messed up... there were OpFor slots apparently. Also, when I was in the Lobby, the name/map/description for the mission (at the top of the slotting up screen) were all blank, as if I wasn't able to read something from the server, or get some info from it (unless these were blank for everyone).

I can connect to the server now, and, if there's a map going, I can join, slot up, download and play... so it may just have been that particular mission. However, if the server is empty, or it's on creating, I can join but get a black screen and 'wait for host', shift+p does nothing, I can login as admin, but can't do anything, just get the 'wait for host'.

Couple things I would like to try, see if I can figure out were the problem is exactly. I wouldn't mind getting the pbo from someone who has played, from their folder... just to test if it's a problem with the servers distribution of the pbo. Could try that same map/mission, but on the old server, again to see if it's a problem with the server distributing that map/mission, or the map/mission itself. Also, would like to try to join/play that mission with only 1 or 2 people on the server... read there might be issues with Linux servers distributing files when it has a heavy load (i.e., when there's 20 others joining/playing). Try similar Domi's on the server, to see if it's maybe to do with the size of the .pbo, or something particular in those types of maps/missions.

Another thing it could be... I noticed there were differences between the capitalisations of the version I got from the server, and the version Null linked me to. I remember reading about something, completely ArmA unrelated, that involved issues between *nix and Win7 64 and capitalisation discrepancies. I know *nix systems have issues with different cases, so that might be the problem.

It is a bit odd that it was only me with the issue. I reckon it's either to do with the new server (I've had no issues on the old server, was playing on that server fine right up to when we switched servers), that Domi mission (can play other missions on the new server, and have played other Domis no problem), or some strange interaction between the two. Or some strange interaction between my install/system and the new server or that new Domi... or all three.

Harlander
09-06-2011, 02:11 PM
Are those prices per 6 months, or something else?

Unaco
09-06-2011, 02:19 PM
Just tried to connect again. Server was running CTI "When Diplomacy Fails" or something. Lobby is completely blank, no slots available, no sides available, no one elses name at the right hand side. I can OK, it starts to download (exact same file size as the Domi from yesterday), downloads it all, then gives me a "Script InitMission.sqf not found" error, then boots me off.

Nullkigan
09-06-2011, 02:33 PM
[...] I remember reading about something, completely ArmA unrelated, that involved issues between *nix and Win7 64 and capitalisation discrepancies. I know *nix systems have issues with different cases, so that might be the problem. [...]

The linux server uses all lowercase mission names else it will crash. That will have been the only difference between the version I uploaded (from the Windows box) and on the server.

I have no idea what is going wrong otherwise, though :( Bag a few traceroutes and I'll see if support can help.


Are those prices per 6 months, or something else?
Yes, including installation fees where applicable (OVH, Kimsufi, Hetzner).

sinister agent
09-06-2011, 02:35 PM
I would love to contribute to costs as I'm playing with you guys a lot lately, but my current family situation is a bit too uncertain. Hopefully in a couple of months I'll be able to help out.

Ansob
09-06-2011, 02:38 PM
I don't see the point in running two instances of Arma on the same box, Null.

I think we'd be much better off just getting a server big enough for both Folk and ourselves, and just play together from now on, funding it 50/50. There's already a good amount of crossover and it would possibly save us some money and would mean we can get a server that performs better.

My only requirements re: the server are that we be allowed to use STHUD/sound mods/Blastcore/Fallujah missions at all times, and that we be able to put up other servers for stuff like KF, Brink, etc. - whatever we're playing basically. Beyond that, as long as it runs well, I don't really care.

Harlander
09-06-2011, 02:53 PM
Are the Sunday folk sessions the only time folk play?