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R-F
27-01-2012, 01:50 AM
Yeah, that game that everyone who survived the spectacular failure of WoM will be getting for free. (http://www.elementalgame.com/fallen-enchantress)

I've been playing the beta and it's... Alright, I guess? It's not nearly as terrible as WoM was, but it's still pretty naff in the magic department and the tech tree is terribad and the two factions still suck and the lore is horribly but...

It's not as terrible as WoM? You could almost say it's a passable B-grade fantasy turn-based strategy game, but that's about it.

Anyone else playing?

Heliocentric
27-01-2012, 02:22 AM
Someone Needs to make sword of the stars but fantasy(sword of the gods?).
Random tech tree, no unit cap just upkeep, races with legitimately different play(species of ghosts who thrive off hatred whose playstyle revolves around creating tension between kingdoms npc or otherwise, who must evade the other races holy men) and overall strategy redonkulas random events, dominions style young gods tromping around with massively divergent styles, traditional races but with an overall objective secret to other players, including Morrowind style get dwarves to go to "heaven" or lotro style get elves on island.
Slap along side that adventurer parties who want to keep wars from ending so they can keep getting rich, "evil" wizards trying to ascend to lichehood, or vampires trying to go unnoticed.

Screw balance.

vinraith
27-01-2012, 02:35 AM
Someone Needs to make sword of the stars but fantasy(sword of the gods?).
Random tech tree, no unit cap just upkeep, races with legitimately different play(species of ghosts who thrive off hatred whose playstyle revolves around creating tension between kingdoms npc or otherwise, who must evade the other races holy men) and overall strategy redonkulas random events, dominions style young gods tromping around with massively divergent styles, traditional races but with an overall objective secret to other players, including Morrowind style get dwarves to go to "heaven" or lotro style get elves on island.
Slap along side that adventurer parties who want to keep wars from ending so they can keep getting rich, "evil" wizards trying to ascend to lichehood, or vampires trying to go unnoticed.

Screw balance.

Where do I preorder?

Icarus
27-01-2012, 11:53 AM
Where do I preorder?

Seconded. I'd absolutely play this but have no idea where to start producing such a wonder.

R-F
27-01-2012, 12:14 PM
AAAAAND... Frogboy still doesn't know how to talk to paying customers:- (http://forums.elementalgame.com/416318)

Ahem, thanks for the feedback.

I can assure you that the AI does, in fact, know how to play the game.

If you want to participate in the beta, I would ask you to try to behave in a civil manner. This is a beta, we're looking for feedback and suggestions -- not abuse. If you are looking for a complete AI, I suggest a completed game.
You speak English better than I speak Ukrainian. That said, what you're not understanding is that we aren't implenting specific strategies into the AI until beta 2.

For beta 1, it's about having APIs for the AI to try out and use.

For example, the AI does know about area threats. However, the API to empty its queue and refocus on military doesn't exist yet. There is currently a requirement that the sovreign wait until he has escort to attack (which isn't necessary but it's there presently due to trying to make the game play more effectively when it has no bonuses).

If you want people to read what you write, my recommendation is that you consider what you write to not be insulting. The AI obviously knows how to play the game. It's building cities, training units, building outposts, sending units off to find new outposts, choosing good units to build, buying equipment for its champions, going on quests, training pioneers, sending pioneers out to build outposts, equpping loot and purchased equipment, organizing armies, casting spells, and on and on and on.

As the game gets balanced and we see how people are playing the game, then we begin to implement more concrete objectives. That's how game AI is developed.

It's not even like the guy is being insulting. Just check out the thread for proof of that. (http://forums.elementalgame.com/416318)

But, no, the game's AI is shit and it's Frogboy pet project (despite the fact he's incapable of even implementing boats for fuck's sake) so he has to be as dickish, condescending and conceited as possible.

( By the way, I'm not the OP in that thread, I'm Autarkhos. :D )


Someone Needs to make sword of the stars but fantasy(sword of the gods?).
Random tech tree, no unit cap just upkeep, races with legitimately different play(species of ghosts who thrive off hatred whose playstyle revolves around creating tension between kingdoms npc or otherwise, who must evade the other races holy men) and overall strategy redonkulas random events, dominions style young gods tromping around with massively divergent styles, traditional races but with an overall objective secret to other players, including Morrowind style get dwarves to go to "heaven" or lotro style get elves on island.
Slap along side that adventurer parties who want to keep wars from ending so they can keep getting rich, "evil" wizards trying to ascend to lichehood, or vampires trying to go unnoticed.

Screw balance.

Oh, god yes. I'M THROWING MONEY AT MY SCREEN BUT IT'S NOT DOING ANYTHING.

Vexing Vision
27-01-2012, 01:14 PM
Where do I preorder?

Okay, can someone call Paradox now?

Icarus
27-01-2012, 01:27 PM
Okay, can someone call Paradox now?

Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things here. But if 12 people from 4chan can produce a complete visual novel with animated sequences and a soundtrack[1], what can the might of the RPS forums achieve?


[1] Yes I'm aware it took five years but still

Kaira-
27-01-2012, 01:54 PM
what can the might of the RPS forums achieve?

The definitive answer to question: "What is an RPG?"

R-F
27-01-2012, 06:57 PM
The definitive answer to question: "What is an RPG?"

There'd sooner be peace between console fanbois about which console is best.

vinraith
27-01-2012, 07:01 PM
Okay, can someone call Paradox now?

While it sadly won't be the game Helio's describing, I do think they're headed in a good direction with Warlock. I'm certainly a lot more interested in, and confidant of, Warlock than I am Fallen Enchantress.

Tei
27-01-2012, 07:02 PM
I wonder why the line "What is a RPG anyway?" (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTSA_sWGM44&NR=1) has become the most powerfull forum trollbait ever see by men or women. I think is because nowdays all games have RPG elements, so while we can agree on some games, we will never agree on most others, and depending on the person tastes, the "core" of the RPG games can be different.

What is a RPG is something that can't be discussed in a forum.

Scumbag
27-01-2012, 07:07 PM
Perhaps I'm oversimplifying things here. But if 12 people from 4chan can produce a complete visual novel with animated sequences and a soundtrack[1], what can the might of the RPS forums achieve?


[1] Yes I'm aware it took five years but still

The programing behind a VN could possibly be taken from something made in 1995.
Anything with AI in it? Thats another kettle of fish altogether.

ntw
27-01-2012, 07:22 PM
There'd sooner be peace between console fanbois about which console is best.

Trick question - the answer is "PC".

Heliocentric
27-01-2012, 07:24 PM
The programing behind a VN could possibly be taken from something made in 1995.
Anything with AI in it? Thats another kettle of fish altogether.

I actually have experience setting up adaptive training for neural nets. The best ai trains itself, just limit its actions per second to a human range if it's too ninja like, and you can do other things to dumb it down.

JayTee
27-01-2012, 07:33 PM
But, no, the game's AI is shit and it's Frogboy pet project (despite the fact he's incapable of even implementing boats for fuck's sake) so he has to be as dickish, condescending and conceited as possible.

( By the way, I'm not the OP in that thread, I'm Autarkhos. :D )It's worth pointing out that Frogboy did the AI programming on GalCiv2, which has probably the best AI in any TBS game I've played. I'd be very surprised if the AI in FE doesn't come close to the GalCiv2 AI.

Heliocentric
27-01-2012, 07:45 PM
GalCiv2, which has probably the best AI in any TBS game I've played.
Gal Civ 2 ai has never posed any threat to me, ever. Scripted/random events, free money the harder difficulties get sure, but smart AI?

Ever play a game that can handle having limited knowledge and still remain strategically competent without magically knowing everything ala starcraft, they are few and far between. So the show gal Civ puts on is a good time.

A advance wars ai could be remarkably patient and ruthless considering it was running on an overgrown calculator.

riadsala
27-01-2012, 08:19 PM
The AI problem is for another thread, and anyway, largely boils down to

(a) most people don't like "good" AI [playing chess against DeepBlue isn't much fun for most of us], and
(b) game designers keep designing game mechanics to make "fun" games, rather than concentrating on mechanics that would suit standard AI techniques

And back on topic, maybe i should go back to programming my own fantasy tbs... I got as far as half a design document and coding up a 3d hex map in unity3d :)

SirKicksalot
27-01-2012, 08:55 PM
But is it better than Civ 5?

archonsod
27-01-2012, 09:23 PM
It's not as terrible as WoM? You could almost say it's a passable B-grade fantasy turn-based strategy game, but that's about it.

Anyone else playing?

Yup. It's what WoM should have been. Finding it pretty enjoyable so far, the map generator still sucks and the pacing is a little too slow, but other than that I like it.



But, no, the game's AI is shit and it's Frogboy pet project (despite the fact he's incapable of even implementing boats for fuck's sake) so he has to be as dickish, condescending and conceited as possible.

And the original poster wasn't?
The attitude is merely the benefit of working for yourself instead of being a corporate bitch. If you're already earning enough money to get by, then you can happily tell someone who is being a dick to go fuck themselves. Generally speaking, not having to spend time out of your life to deal with a fuckwit is worth far more than the fuckwit is going to be paying you. Especially at numbers of less than three digits.
And yeah, the AI would suck. That's because you don't usually implement the AI prior to having all the features the AI will be using within the game, because doing so means either having to rip out and replace the AI once you're feature complete, or else watching the game crash repeatedly as the AI attempts to call scripts you haven't written yet.

Heliocentric
27-01-2012, 10:24 PM
(a) most people don't like "good" AI [playing chess against DeepBlue isn't much fun for most of us], and
(b) game designers keep designing game mechanics to make "fun" games, rather than concentrating on mechanics that would suit standard AI techniques

A)That's why you kneecap the AI in subtle, usually variant ways.
B)No i totally believe you should build the AI around the game.

vecordae
27-01-2012, 10:27 PM
I made my own Fantasy TBS/4X game once. It was called "Wendigo Pals 4-Xer". You controlled The Kingdom of The Republic of The Orc Dwarfs. It had some really interesting and cutting edge features like being able to ride bikes and researching a skill called "winning" and also "killing bad guys." The concept hasn't aged well, but then again, I was four at the time.

Dariune
27-01-2012, 11:00 PM
Heliocentric to be honest you and the OP of that thread just come across as spoiled haters.

The feed back is valid but the way it was said made it less so IMO. I wouldnt have been as patient as FB was.

No im not a fanboy of Stardock (Im not even on their forums) but i do like some of their games and i think, with a lot of feed back and tinkering, that Fallen Enchantress could be a good game when released.

But the OP and you? If i were making a game i would have been less polite than FrogBoy was.

Heliocentric
27-01-2012, 11:23 PM
Heliocentric to be honest you and the OP of that thread just come across as spoiled haters. Spoiled by Sword of the Stars, Dominions 3, Civilization 4 (Fall from Heaven II specifically), Tropico 3 and 'Settler 2/7' Guilty as charged, Now why am I supposed to be happy with a lesser empire building/grand strategy game again?

Dariune
27-01-2012, 11:32 PM
You shouldnt be happy. I wasnt saying you should.

What you should do is be aware that your opinion isnt law and that not liking the game does not give you permission to be rude.

Some people like the game. I think its ok and i think it has great potential.

Your attitude towards FrogBoy purely based on not liking a product he created is not ok.

vinraith
27-01-2012, 11:37 PM
Yeah kids, don't be rude to Brad, only Brad is allowed to be rude.

Dariune
27-01-2012, 11:44 PM
Didnt strike me as being rude to be honest. And actually I would say whats the point in being rude to anyone, especially when their only offence was making a game you dont like.

archonsod
28-01-2012, 10:44 AM
The feed back is valid but the way it was said made it less so IMO.

Precisely. It's not the subject of the complaints that's the issue but how they were delivered. If someone was as snide to me in real life as the OP was in that forum post I'd give them a damn good kicking no matter what they were saying.

R-F
28-01-2012, 10:56 AM
Heliocentric to be honest you and the OP of that thread just come across as spoiled haters.

The feed back is valid but the way it was said made it less so IMO. I wouldnt have been as patient as FB was.

No im not a fanboy of Stardock (Im not even on their forums) but i do like some of their games and i think, with a lot of feed back and tinkering, that Fallen Enchantress could be a good game when released.

But the OP and you? If i were making a game i would have been less polite than FrogBoy was.

Err, despite the fact he's hardly rude in any way? I fail to see how he's rude.

hamster
28-01-2012, 11:10 AM
Maybe he was a little sarcastic. But just looking at the first post, the guy doesn't seem to be a native english speaker so some things might have gotten across in a tone that wasn't intended.

Heliocentric
28-01-2012, 01:57 PM
I dismissed crap AI, maybe that was my rude thing. I never said the stardock game had bad AI, but someone else did, indeed my only judgement of Elemental was 'not to buy'.

Edit: Nope, just reread my posts, I can't see how that was taken as rude.

Berzee
28-01-2012, 04:20 PM
Ahh, we're importing our arguments again. ^_^

Malawi Frontier Guard
28-01-2012, 06:22 PM
There is something off about the graphics of Elemental, but I can't say what exactly it is.
The weird shadows? The texture blending? The post-processing? It's all so blurry and strange.