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Juan Carlo
29-01-2012, 02:56 AM
Any suggestions on how to ease into DOTA? Any helpful sites or guides or whatnot?

I just got a beta invite and I've never played it before. My only experience with MOBAs is I have like 15 hours or so in Rise of Immortals (which I enjoy, but it seems alot less complicated than DOTA). I loaded up DOTA and watched some people playing games and it all looks terribly daunting as a beginner.

I attempted reading the official forums but it mostly just seems to be douchebags arguing about minutia in typical "douchebags on a forum" fashion--not very helpful for a beginner. Plus, I don't really have any other friends on steam who have the beta, so I'll pretty much only be able to play with strangers.

pakoito
29-01-2012, 03:15 AM
Let's cut to the chase. Learning to play DOTA is going to be a painful, long long period you have to commit to in which you'll be irritated for the most time by other people because dota rule 1 is "you suck and you know it, and you are making us lose the game".

First you should start with the newbie guides from like this one (http://www.playdota.com/guides/masterjas-total-newbie-guide) or this other one (http://www.playdota.com/forums/showthread.php?t=462907). Start playing with the bots and try to learn the basic game mechanics (there's a shitton of them) and most importantly what each hero skill does, more or less. If you don't know all the hero's abilities you're in a major disadvantage and probably you won't be able to play at a 100%. Knowing whether a hero has a skill to disable you from a distance, and how much that distance is approximately, is the difference between living or dying.

If you die two or three times to the same hero, he's gets money and experience and he will be growing faster than you hence he will kill you more often, resulting in him getting "fat" and winning the game by himself. To avoid this you either have to play with the team (of complete randoms below 16 that would speak English only to rage at you) or just by outsmarting the opponent, which needs deep in-game knowledge.

That should keep you occupied for a couple of months, meanwhile start looking for some community that accepts and teaches newbies to play with, by month 3 or 4 you may be ready to suck in an online match.


EDIT: Or you can play LoL and huehuehuehuehuehue all game and still win. That game is a lot more forgiving, but not as rewarding.

soldant
29-01-2012, 03:15 AM
Any suggestions on how to ease into DOTA?
I wasn't aware there was one. You'd just get shouted down and berated until you quit. I thought it was established fact that all DOTA players had been playing before DOTA was invented and were automatically awesome at it as soon as they started playing.

pakoito
29-01-2012, 03:17 AM
I wasn't aware there was one. You'd just get shouted down and berated until you quit. I thought it was established fact that all DOTA players had been playing before DOTA was invented and were automatically awesome at it as soon as they started playing.It took me 6 to 9 months of bot stomping to be confident to jump online, a year and a half to have a decent level, and 3 years to be "a bit above average". It IS painful but has its rewards *maybe 1 out of 10 games*.

EDIT: If you play 3-4 hours a day cut those times in half maybe. Most people do now, in both DOTA2 and Heroes of Newerth.

Jamison Dance
29-01-2012, 03:55 AM
That sounds like a punishment, not entertainment. Seems about as fun and rewarding as a hotdog eating contest.

soldant
29-01-2012, 04:08 AM
That sounds like a punishment, not entertainment. Seems about as fun and rewarding as a hotdog eating contest.
I tried to learn to play HoN with my friends for a few months, and I was astounded at how quickly they turned into degenerate ranting nutcases. One of them was screaming at me for five minutes straight over some minor mistake, and then they'd argue amongst themselves about whether or not their advice was correct. Then they'd argue over surrendering and items and on and on it went. Soon as the game was over they'd go back to normal.

In the end I just stopped playing altogether. I don't know if it's the competitive-ranking part of the game, or if it's just the community, but I honestly believe the DOTA/HoN communities are far worse than Counter-Strike ever was.

Juan Carlo
29-01-2012, 04:27 AM
Doesn't anyone just play DOTA for fun?

lol

Communities honestly don't intimidate me much, though. I've gotten raged at plenty when starting other games and never really minded. Although, if DOTA really is this much of a time investment I don't know if I'll stick with it long. I'm not really the sort of gamer that just plays 1 game for months on end. I do like "Rise of Immortals" on occasion, but that seems a good deal less involved and more like the sort of thing you can pop in and out of.

Anyhow, thanks for the guides and the advice. I'll give it my best go and see what happens.

DevinSmoth
29-01-2012, 05:37 AM
I play LoL sometimes with friends and while I suck at the game, I do enjoy it a bit now and then, as it's fun to jump into a game and play the whole thing in like an hour or less. That sort of modularity is quite nice... even if you're doing terribly, you just lose and move on to a whole new game, with none of the previous loss affecting (except you may get easier players).

However, show some love to the peeps that still don't have a beta key for that game... I want it so bad!

Spider Jerusalem
29-01-2012, 06:15 AM
play bot games. for a while. just random a hero and play against bots. preferably with a couple friends.

the dota2 bots are actually really good for learning the game (their reaction times are brutally perfect), and will be pretty helpful for getting the basics down.

DigitalSignalX
29-01-2012, 08:38 AM
I got my beta key recently too. Decided to just dive right in, and am at like 2 and 5, with 1 disconnect (I didn't realize quitting a private game with bots counted as a DC). Never having played in the slightest - I did however watch some games first, so got the very basics about buying stuff, solo lane for XP vs. going with team for ganks/towers etc.

It's fun, and no one has been rude at all (yet). My impression is that there's some sort of skill/ladder thing like in SC2 behind the scenes so it doesn't match you up with higher ranked players. Several games I've been in were very close, and also had people who were admitted noobs. Don't worry about the community pressure issue. Just have fun!

Nova
29-01-2012, 09:58 AM
I jumped in directly without bot training. Just play noobs only games.
It takes you a few weeks, month to see through depending on how much you play, but it is still fun, and not torture or something like that. My experience wasn't like pakoito's, but it seems to be a sport to complain about Dota-likes, anyway.

You get to know the other heroes pretty fast because there are always 9 others in a game. You just have to observe. Look how others are playing while you are dead or running to the fountain. What items they are buying etc.
If you like a hero read a guide (http://www.playdota.com/guides) and try to follow it.

Spider Jerusalem
29-01-2012, 10:21 AM
the reason i say play a bunch of bot games and random heroes is because, in dota, you /need/ to know what the other heroes can do. if you don't know everyone's skills you're going to get surprised, and being surprised in dota is never a good thing.

pakoito
29-01-2012, 01:30 PM
I jumped in directly without bot training. Just play noobs only games.
It takes you a few weeks, month to see through depending on how much you play, but it is still fun, and not torture or something like that. My experience wasn't like pakoito's, but it seems to be a sport to complain about Dota-likes, anyway.

You get to know the other heroes pretty fast because there are always 9 others in a game. You just have to observe. Look how others are playing while you are dead or running to the fountain. What items they are buying etc.
If you like a hero read a guide (http://www.playdota.com/guides) and try to follow it.
Well I started in Dota1 where there was no match filtering and there were no "noob only" games unless you joined a community. Jumping to HoN was easy because all the comfy stuff they added, key rebind, reconnect, leaver punishment, matchmaking...but "noob only" games were mostly idiots baiting noobs for stat padding. Even after that it still took some time until I could get to a point where I was confident of my skills.

Some of you may play every now and then and know some stuff that'd be ok for a "easy mode" game or whatever, but internalizing the whole game to the point of understanding a whole decision tree in any professional game takes a fair bit more time.

I think Dota2 and recent HoN are less punishing to noobs and take a fair bit amount of the time and pain needed before, but yes, it is a long path ahead, even more playing without friends or a clan behind.

TailSwallower
29-01-2012, 03:27 PM
I'm surprised by people saying they spent months learning the game. My first experience with DotA was playing with 2 friend for most of the night while drinking. They just muttered things at me about items and how you should play and stuff while I wished that they would just shut up and let me play. Obviously there are more intricacies that you might not pick up until you've been playing for a while, but it's definitely not hard to just pick it up and give it a go.

Not sure how DOTA2 compares to all the different versions, but I found LoL quite simple and easy to get to grips with compared to the WC3 mod.

But yeah, my advice is to play some coop vs bots. No one really gets too pissy because you're only playing bots, you get to learn how to play, and you get to interface with the community in a hopefully positive way.

buemba
29-01-2012, 03:27 PM
From my experience the DOTA (And clones) community makes the X-Box Live idiots look good in comparison. You can either let that drive you away or you can start to revel in the fact that with every match even if you're not getting better at the game you're at least making somebody who deserves it very angry.

So go out there and drive an online tough guy crazy today!

Nova
29-01-2012, 03:46 PM
@TailSwallower
"Learning the game" includes knowing the skills of 100+ heroes, and being able to react to the them. Knowing what item to build for the heroes, depending on the situation in a running game. Even if you "understand" a hero by seeing him once (which is pretty unlikely) that will take you some time. Normally you at least have to play each hero once.
Not mentioning stuff like juking, mind games, last hitting, map oversight, hero combinations, etc.

@pakoito
Was the same for me. I specifically looked out for noob games or opened them myself.

TailSwallower
29-01-2012, 04:09 PM
@TailSwallower
"Learning the game" includes knowing the skills of 100+ heroes[etc]

Yeah, but I'm just trying to give Juan some encouragement. He'll be able to pick it up and play it for a weekend and have a pretty good idea of what the game is about, and then he'll know if he actually wants to learn all the minutiae. I for one spent 2 or 3 weeks playing too much LoL and enjoyed it, but I feel no need to go back because I know if stick with it, it'll become the sort of game I won't enjoy playing.

(And here I'll stop myself from going on a tangent about why MP-focused games don't appeal to me and could never replace SP games.)

pakoito
29-01-2012, 06:16 PM
Last game, we 10 players were in an even match stat-wise. Last player in our team decides he wants to play a new hero that is not appropriate for his skills...this happens from time to time, we try to balance 'fun' with 'usefulness' when making the team in the pregame. No big deal.

5 minutes in he has died three times to the same hero due mostly to lack of positioning knowledge (stay away from enemy range, use your skills properly, pick your fights and RUN if you have to). 15 minutes in he has died seven times because those first three left him without money to step up his game. 22 minutes in he decides to leave game because of our harass on chat. That hero he died to has now around 13 kills, twice our per minute money gain and is killing us 2v1 or even 3v1, but the team behind him is also pushing against us four. 35 minutes in we decide to concede, most of the team is below par kill/death, and is pissed as hell. We just wasted 30+ minutes of pure concentration because one in the team was not good enough.

And that's why the community is so angry at each other. I usually play the support role, don't really care about my stats other than win% and more often than not I'm (the low tier player) planning where to go, how to face teamfights or keeping the team from demoralizing and quitting an even match. But you don't always avoid the drama or the bad players or someone having one bad game, and those times are as frustrating as a 10 losing streak in Fifa-SF-SC

Brnin8r
29-01-2012, 07:37 PM
What worked for me when I started playing HoN/Dota is to pick a hero that's relatively easy to play with a lot of targeted spells (that you just have to click on the enemy and it always hits) or or a lot of passives (skills you can't activate), and just play it until you are confident with your skills with that particular hero. then switch to a hero with similar mechanics that you think is a little more challenging to play.

And try and listen to your team-mates even if they are douches, ask for tips on items to buy when you have no idea, or what skill you need to level at that stage of the game.

If you are looking for some good starting heroes you should start with the intelligence support heroes, also reading guides is the best way to increase your understanding of games like Dota or HoN without the frustration of dying all the time because you have no idea what you are doing.

http://www.playdota.com/learn/ (http://www.playdota.com/learn/support)

This video is about hero roles in HoN but the roles are the same as in Dota.
http://youtu.be/Nc_WmqLqXiM

Bungle
29-01-2012, 09:48 PM
Dota 2 should be very newb-friendly when it goes live, but the tutorial stuff isn't there yet. The game will have a bunch of tools to help new payers learn the game, but you have to fend for yourself in the beta. It's painful and slow. I've played 200 matches so far and feel like I have more to learn now than when I started.

DaftPunk
29-01-2012, 10:34 PM
I don't know how you people find free time to spend few hours each day,playing same online game. I remember when i was younger and i spend entire days playing Counter Strike 1.6,but these days its hard to have free time and play something more hardcore as CSS games or anything similar :(