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Sketch
02-02-2012, 03:44 PM
So with the recent article about the new Total War standalone game, specifically the part where you can take command of a gun emplacement, and join in the battle, it got me wishing for more games with this kind of thing. Are there/have there been any RTS/strategy games where you can get stuck in when you want? It's something that's always appealed to me but I've never really been sure of what games to try. Dungeon Keeper is one of the few games I remember doing it on and that was awesome, but something with the large scale of the Total War games, or other RTS appeals to me. So yeah.

Danny252
02-02-2012, 04:07 PM
Dangerous Waters allows you to fly/drive/crash all the vehicles. Another that comes to mind is OpFlash/Arma(2)'s "Capture the Island" MP missions - though unless you're actually the team commander, you don't get much strategy.

c-Row
02-02-2012, 04:08 PM
Battlezone, Urban Assault and Uprising all mixed RTS base building (and a bit of commanding your units, depending on the game) and FPS action with the emphasis on the latter. I would love to see another Uprising game...

Anthile
02-02-2012, 04:14 PM
Well, most of these type of games are multiplayer, for obvious reasons. However, there's games like Battlezone, Hostile Waters, Urban Assault and maybe Sacrifice or Overlord.

Wizardry
02-02-2012, 05:22 PM
RTS tends to equal action strategy anyway. At least StarCraft does.

Sketch
02-02-2012, 05:46 PM
Cheers chaps, I've seen Battlezone crop up a few times, so I shall have to investigate that further. I was looking at that Rise of Nations game too, but I don't think it's suppose to be all that good. Sacrifice looks pretty good too. I wish, there was a Command and Conquer game that did this, a mix between Renegade and the RTS games would be awesome.

Aspect
02-02-2012, 05:47 PM
Battlestations: Pacific? Maybe other games in the series, but that's the only one I've played
wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battlestations:_Pacific

Chevy
02-02-2012, 05:51 PM
I was looking at that Rise of Nations game too, but I don't think it's suppose to be all that good.

Well that was a weird game to bring up.
Rise of Nations is awesome, but it's a straight up RTS, like Age of Empires.

Bhazor
02-02-2012, 05:55 PM
Hostile Waters is probably the best larger scale hybrid I've played.

But I'll also give a mention to Giants: Citizen Kabuto which had bizzare little RTS sections snuck in. In a similar vein Tim Schafer's Brutal Legend also broke into unexpected RTSing when you least expect it.

Another one I'd recommend is the Brothers In Arms series. Maybe a bit linear for a real strategy game but the extra dimension still works brilliantly in building the drama and excitement.

Berzee
02-02-2012, 05:57 PM
But I'll also give a mention to Giants: Citizen Kabuto which had bizzare little RTS sections snuck in. In a similar vein Tim Schafer's Brutal Legend also broke into unexpected RTSing when you least expect it.

By far the weirdest game to include an RTS section, that I ever played, was Final Fantasy 7.

Can't think of any games in the style you're looking for that haven't been mentioned, unfortunately. (I'm behind the times, though, on RTSes).

Wizardry
02-02-2012, 05:59 PM
Oh and I recommend Battlezone. It's an interesting game and quite deep.

Heliocentric
02-02-2012, 06:08 PM
RTS tends to equal action strategy anyway. At least StarCraft does.
Peasant, you are in my domain now, Starcraft isn't action, its procedure.

Yes it happens very fast, but a receptionist typing is fast, that doesn't make it an action game... Unless they are playing Typing of the Dead I guess. Starcraft is busywork, predetermined motor function with bursts of creative freedom which are afforded by its "real time tactics"(if you insist). Action is more reacting to events, less something you can plan click by click for maximum efficiency.

I assume he means third person action games which are mixed with strategic elements
Hostile waters, Battlezone(2 is easier to get in), Sacrifice, or Pikmin
But, don't ignore 1st and 3rd person games with strategic elements.
Natural Selection(2 isnt fit to play yet), Splinter Cell Chaos theory: Versus, Empires (HL2 mod), Nuclear dawn,

Well that was a weird game to bring up.
Rise of Nations is awesome, but it's a straight up RTS, like Age of Empires.
I think he means Rise & Fall: Civilizations at War



Another one I'd recommend is the Brothers In Arms series. Maybe a bit linear for a real strategy game but the extra dimension still works brilliantly in building the drama and excitement.
Earned in Blood and the slightly lesser prequel Road to hill 30 are magnificent games, earned in bloods pacing expects you to have played road to 30 first, but if you want to jump right in at the best content (including coop) then get earned in blood,

Wizardry
02-02-2012, 06:33 PM
Yes it happens very fast, but a receptionist typing is fast, that doesn't make it an action game... Unless they are playing Typing of the Dead I guess. Starcraft is busywork, predetermined motor function with bursts of creative freedom which are afforded by its "real time tactics"(if you insist). Action is more reacting to events, less something you can plan click by click for maximum efficiency.
Micromanaging a bunch of zerglings is a type of action gameplay. Deny it all you want.

Okami
02-02-2012, 07:22 PM
Micromanaging a bunch of zerglings is a type of action gameplay. Deny it all you want.

Yes, timing, reaction and precision is a large part of SC type RTS games, so it could be argued that there's a certain action component to these games, but I don't think that's what Woundedbum meant.


On topic: The Kingdom Under Fire games on the old Xbox feature a mix of Hack'n'Slash action rpg and RTS gameplay. You control a couple of regiments, which you can cycle through in 3rd person view and set waypoints on a minimap and also directly control your general (who's accompanied by a regimant who'll follow him wherever he goes) who has the standard 3rd person action gameplay moves (light, heavy attack, block, special moves). The games looked pretty good for old Xbox games (if you like the Korean graphic style and don't mind a lot of jiggly boobs on your elf units) , you could upgrade and buy units between battles and the battles themselves usually had interesting objectives.

Sadly, the game was also incredibly hard, micromanaging you units was a pain in the ass, the music was atrocious (think Dynasty Warriors heavy metal soundtrack just worse) and the story was... hard to follow?

Grizzly
02-02-2012, 07:29 PM
There's also Rainbow Six, the older versions of the game involve planning an assault beforehand and then executing it as the squad leader. The amount of action you get to see depends entirely on your tactical capabilities.


timing, reaction and precision

Tactics are all about timing and reaction and precision in any battle... I don't think it defines any genre.

SirKicksalot
02-02-2012, 07:31 PM
I suppose Warhammer: Mark of Chaos counts. A very atmospheric Total War clone in which you control hero units that can engage in duels. It's fun when they clash and their troops make a circle around them. Also there are some missions where you control only heroes.

Bhazor
02-02-2012, 07:40 PM
On topic: The Kingdom Under Fire games on the old Xbox feature a mix of Hack'n'Slash action rpg and RTS gameplay. You control a couple of regiments, which you can cycle through in 3rd person view and set waypoints on a minimap and also directly control your general (who's accompanied by a regimant who'll follow him wherever he goes) who has the standard 3rd person action gameplay moves (light, heavy attack, block, special moves). The games looked pretty good for old Xbox games (if you like the Korean graphic style and don't mind a lot of jiggly boobs on your elf units) , you could upgrade and buy units between battles and the battles themselves usually had interesting objectives.


Oh how could I forget KuF? One of my favourite games of the last gen and the new one is probably my most anticipated piece of vapourware. Despite it's many problems no other game has managed to get the feel of medieval battle so well. The mud, the blood, the yelling, the bodies flying etc. It makes the Total War games seem cold and remote in comparison. Even the music can be forgiven as though it doesn't fit the presentation it does fit the mood and adds a nice layer of GRAWWWW when it picks up in the bigger battles.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhFc97Hx9fM&feature=related
(Yes that is the actual music for the game. )

I'd highly recommend Kingdom Under Fire: Heroes to anyone with one of them EggBox 720s lying about. Though the newest one is basically a crap Dynasty clone.

Sketch
02-02-2012, 08:20 PM
Thanks for all your suggestions guys, investigating them all!

Ah yeah, I meant Rise & Fall, not Rise of Nations. Woops. And yes, Wizardry may be may be technically corrects, it's not what I meant. Hostile Waters looks pretty fun too and the Brother in Arms games look fantastic, I thoroughly enjoyed Hells Highway (pretty gruesome headshots). As for Kingdom Under Fire, I remember watching my friend play it years ago, and he raved about how good it was, thanks for reminding me, I really hope they're backward compatible with my 360. Oh and by the way a closed beta for Kingdom Under Fire 2, started at the tail end of last year, and there's a relatively new trailer:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yF9Pjo5ltZo

Feldspar
02-02-2012, 08:44 PM
Isn't the Carrier Command reboot/remake going approach this territory?

I remember the section in Giants: Citizen Kabuto, I got the feeling they tried to make 3 different games there but due to a problem in the birthing tank they ended up with conjoined triplets, and no matter how much fun intercourse with multiple women is, sooner or later you're going to say to yourself: "These girls all share the same digestive tract, quite what am I doing here?"

Bungle
02-02-2012, 09:04 PM
This isn't the answer you're looking for, but Valve describes Dota 2 as an "Action RTS." So it technically fits your description, even though it doesn't.

Bhazor
02-02-2012, 09:27 PM
@Woundedbum
I hadn't seen that trailer. Awesome to know they're still slugging away at it. I just hope they manage to live up to the GamesTM write up a couple years back (sadly not available online). Long development times make me nervous games always seem to shrink and lose features when their in development is this long (Alan Wake, DNF)

@Feldspar

I think we've all been there. Awkward.

The new Carrier Command does seem to fit the description but its still a way off. Pleasingly Bohemia seem to be ditching realism to make what is essentially a much larger scale Hostile Waters. Which is
The
Best
Possible
Thing

Juan Carlo
03-02-2012, 05:16 AM
Now one's mentioned Mount and Blade: Warband yet?

I think it qualifies. It's only problem is that the interface is kind of awkward in battle so you can't always control your troops as efficiently or directly as you do in, say, a Total War game, but it comes close.

khaz
03-02-2012, 07:43 AM
Savage 2

Its still going and actually had a patch from S2 games (Same company as Heroes of Newerth) recently to fix some things. I haven't played it in years but might be worth a shot. I did play Savage 1 a lot and nothing quite captured the rts/fps/action hybrid for me after it. Online only though.

The only other examples I can think of have already been mentioned.

Nox
05-02-2012, 04:39 PM
I find hard to believe that none of you mentioned Men of War. It's my #1 RTS game mainly because of

a) total destructibility of, well, everything plus brilliant physics and tactic possibilities (like torching the cornfield enemy is hiding in and waiting for the fire to spread)
b) complexity and realism
b) feature called direct control, where you gain direct control of the selected unit/s, move with WSAD, shoot with mouse etc.

The last one is a feature I've been missing in pretty much every RTS - AI usually doesn't do the job exactly as you pictured it and with direct control you can simply do it yourself.

Example video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIy2yoZJ84)

It's not an additional feature, it's pretty much essential in multiplayer and everyone is using it for precision and absolute control over key units like heavy tanks.

PS. There are two downsides, one is that MoW is a really complex game and hard to learn, and two, it shines in multiplayer, singleplayer is just a tutorial teaching you the basics.

vinraith
05-02-2012, 04:46 PM
Well that was a weird game to bring up.
Rise of Nations is awesome, but it's a straight up RTS, like Age of Empires.

Rise of Nations is the best RTS ever made, and I'm not remotely the only one who thinks so. But yes, it's a weird one to bring up because it's the opposite of what the OP's looking for. RoN is an RTS with TBS sensibilities, there's nothing "action" about it (thank goodness!).

DaftPunk
05-02-2012, 05:35 PM
I find hard to believe that none of you mentioned Men of War. It's my #1 RTS game mainly because of

a) total destructibility of, well, everything plus brilliant physics and tactic possibilities (like torching the cornfield enemy is hiding in and waiting for the fire to spread)
b) complexity and realism
b) feature called direct control, where you gain direct control of the selected unit/s, move with WSAD, shoot with mouse etc.

The last one is a feature I've been missing in pretty much every RTS - AI usually doesn't do the job exactly as you pictured it and with direct control you can simply do it yourself.

Example video. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIy2yoZJ84)

It's not an additional feature, it's pretty much essential in multiplayer and everyone is using it for precision and absolute control over key units like heavy tanks.

PS. There are two downsides, one is that MoW is a really complex game and hard to learn, and two, it shines in multiplayer, singleplayer is just a tutorial teaching you the basics.




And it shocked me that noone mentioned Soldiers - Heroes of World War II,father of Men Of War,which came in 2004 and it includes direct control which is big part of gameplay,which is superb!

Nox
05-02-2012, 05:36 PM
Well, there's a rather linear progression in that game line so Men of War is just newer and way better. :>

Danny252
05-02-2012, 06:08 PM
Hidden and Dangerous just popped into my head - for bonus points it's also now free.

Edit: Actually, it doesn't really count as "Real time" strategy. But maybe still something to look at.

DaftPunk
05-02-2012, 07:41 PM
Well, there's a rather linear progression in that game line so Men of War is just newer and way better. :>

I agree that its a better game but still SHOWW2 is also good one.

Do you possible remember how to use matchboxes in game (Heroes Of WW2),because i started playing it again and can't remember how to..

Nox
05-02-2012, 08:28 PM
Uh sorry, but I have no idea really since I have played Soldiers just till I realized it's an earlier version of MoW, though if you'd ask me this question in the context of actual MoW I'd say that just equip the matches, go DC and use it. :)

BTW. So is the campaign in Soldiers worth playing? Since I'm playing MoWAS multi-only pretty much though it's, well, really tense and tiring at times so I was wondering whether to give singleplayer a go. I played through original MoW campaign, liked it to a fair bit but the AI sort of ruins it with its stupidity, tried Red Tide but they messed up something with the interface there and just got frustrated.

DaftPunk
05-02-2012, 08:38 PM
Am it depends,its kinda similar to commandos you know,where you are in control of only few soldiers against much bigger number of enemies,also its trial and error kind of game,so expect allot of saving & loading,Ai is also not the brightest thing around ..lol.

Bhazor
05-02-2012, 10:52 PM
Well I'd say its closer to Cannon Fodder. Commando's was a puzzle game cunningly disguised as a RTS. Men Of War is essentially an A Team/Dirty Dozen cross over fanfic unconvincingly disguised as a serious war sim. Which means bloody brilliant.

Tikey
06-02-2012, 03:09 AM
Men Of War is essentially an A Team/Dirty Dozen cross over fanfic unconvincingly disguised as a serious war sim. Which means bloody brilliant.

I don't think anyone in the world could've sold me the game better that that.

NRD_Robert
26-06-2013, 09:10 PM
Hey Sketch and others :)

I also love these types of games. I used to pay lots of Iron Grip and Empires mod.

I am the CEO of a studio in Sweden. NRD Studios AB. We are making a RTS Action hybrid right now called Champions of Demah. We would love to have some input and feedback on what you guys like and dont like. You can check our currently running Kickstarter campaign here (http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1986478987/champions-of-demah-0).

Just drop me messages about what you think :)

sabrage
27-06-2013, 07:53 AM
(Yes that is the actual music for the game. )
Well, I admire them for trying.

Olero
27-06-2013, 12:55 PM
Regarding Battlezone; I seem to remember there being quite a lot of fan made patches and/or even entire rebuilds/free full games made to run on the more modern computers. I can't look them up right now (@ work), but I know I was happy when I got Battlezone to run and in higher resolutions. The original CD-version I have doesn't run at all (black screens or the occasional stutter).

Velko
27-06-2013, 01:12 PM
Umm, guys... This thread is almost five months old, and it was resurrected by some over-eager indie dev who did not by the way understand that there's a special subforum for pimping your precious game thank you very much.

One Pigeon
27-06-2013, 02:57 PM
Well even if it is an old and now resurrected thread I'd like to bring forward a game thus far unmentioned.

Wargasm

This one is from 1998 and is a mix of fps/tps/rts with unfortunately fairly awful controls. Not so bad that it didn't take up a fair bit of my youth though.

khaz
27-06-2013, 03:36 PM
Oh shit, Wargasm. Totally forgot about that. So far ahead of its time but yeah, those controls.

The King K
27-06-2013, 10:16 PM
Does a TD game count as an RTS? Well, it's real, it's time-y and there is some strategy involved. Thus, I recommend Toy Soldiers. You can enter the sniper tower and snipe, well, toy soldiers. You can enter any tower you build and even fly toy planes and toy tanks. And if you like numbers, it tells you the highest one of the soldiers flew after being blown up by your mortar. Not enough games do this. Though a word of warning: GfWL. I didn't have any issues running this via steam though. I haven't seen it on sale in a while, but when it is, it's rather in-expensive.

Surlywombat
27-06-2013, 11:10 PM
Battlezone is one of my favorite games, and it's been patched to work on current systems. Its on the web, won't link it here since not sure about legality but its pretty easy to google.

Battlezone 2 - some of the devs have worked on a patch (http://matesfamily.org/bz2/) in his spare time, the patch adds tons of graphics options, resolutions and replaces the gamespy multiplayer matchmaking with one that works. Unlike Battlezone1 you do need the original disk to play it though.

The alternate history story is pretty good.

Patrick Swayze
28-06-2013, 07:18 PM
I loved Battlezone 1, its amazing how well it stands up now.

Battlezone 2 was great but I always felt a little like I was hovering around in futuristic lawnmowers.

Didn't care much for the Scion either, preferred fighting those ruskies.

How is Bionite Origins going these days, anyone?