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Vexing Vision
04-02-2012, 05:00 PM
I am not sure why this hadn't hit the news yet, but FilePlanet is hosting the CK2 demo.

I'm loving it. I am utterly confused and bewildered by the sheer monumental amount of things I can do and the sheer monumental amount of reasons my vassals have to rebell against me.

It's the one game I pre-order this Q1, and I can't wait to start out as a lowly duke attempting to carve my kingdom out of the rotting carcass of the Church.

For the demo, though, I'm stuck with being a tough Polish warlord. Good lords is this game massive, and the tutorial doesn't do much apart from telling me that if these numbers go red, something's going wrong.

Colonel J
04-02-2012, 06:41 PM
Good find, just downloaded it from the link in the other thread about this. I've only dipped into the tutorial so far but already it's giving me a warm moist feeling that this is going to be very good indeed, the Paradox game I've always wanted.

Half of me is tempted to pre-order, I adored CK1. Meanwhile my rational brain says wait for the reviews and the early patches to fix the late-game breaking bugs that it will probably have at launch.

Malawi Frontier Guard
04-02-2012, 07:55 PM
At first glance it seems better than Sengoku at least.

IDtenT
04-02-2012, 08:37 PM
I'm already getting withdrawal symptoms after being forced out of the demo at the death of my character.

BenWah
04-02-2012, 08:53 PM
Crusader Kings is the best paradox game in my opinion.
I've been looking forward to CK2 for a while, didn't realize release was coming up.
I'm almost sure to buy this

BenWah
04-02-2012, 08:55 PM
demo link
http://www.fileplanet.com/224596/download/Crusader-Kings-II-Demo (http://www.fileplanet.com/224596/download/Crusader-Kings-II-Demo)

more discussion here
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?578197-Crusader-Kings-II-Demo!/page15&

Stellar Duck
04-02-2012, 09:04 PM
I'm already getting withdrawal symptoms after being forced out of the demo at the death of my character.

Better than me. Damn thing crashed due to me alt-tabbing too much in my enthusiam to let people know what it was like to play. And it happened just after the HRE started a Holy War and levied half of Europes troops.

Then my vassal in Parma formed a heresy and a peasant revolt. And the Pope usurped a title of mine, the bastard.

All in all, aside from the crash, great fun!

751

Duckee
05-02-2012, 03:15 PM
I can heartily recommend this if you want a game that is akin to heroin. I lost my entire evening to the demo and I really want more.


Some things I liked:

- No sliders!! Yes, there are no "tax distribution sliders", which are prevalent in Europa Universalis. I never played CK1 so I do not know if this system was in that.
- There is so much going on in this game, all seemingly dynamic, with wars happening amongst your vassals, vassals breaking off from their lieges, large alliance wars.
- The character and diplomacy system is superb and each character seems to have their own sort of agenda which they will try to follow, be it lowly mayor or emperor.
- I would dare say it is at least 100% more fun than EU3, and I really liked that game.

I only wish the demo had the save functionality!

Joseph
05-02-2012, 03:24 PM
Will it come to Steam?
I'm pretty damn excited about this after I only just discovered games of this calibre existed earlier this year when I got EU3.

Colonel J
05-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Will it come to Steam?

Eventually yes I expect so, all their other recent releases have. However the Steam release of a Paradox game often lags a few weeks behind, the same for patch updates which can be a particular annoyance. There can also be complications with getting the future expansion packs working (and this is Paradox there are bound to be some) if you combine Steam and non-Steam versions. For that reason I now try to only buy Paradox releases from Gamersgate (who are affiliated to Paradox) unless it's an older game and the Steam price is a hell of a lot cheaper.

And according to the Gamersgate page (http://www.gamersgate.co.uk/DD-CK2/crusader-kings-ii) theirs is DRM-free. Which is enough of a reason by itself.

Kaira-
05-02-2012, 03:59 PM
Apparently all versions except GamersGate use Steam, and the Steam is only way to get beta-patches. So yeah, I'll be picking this up from GamersGate when it hits a nice price-point. I am still disappointed how Paradox is going, though, because I like my physical copies.

Nullkigan
05-02-2012, 04:24 PM
Apparently all versions except GamersGate use Steam, and the Steam is only way to get beta-patches. So yeah, I'll be picking this up from GamersGate when it hits a nice price-point. I am still disappointed how Paradox is going, though, because I like my physical copies.

They rescinded that decision quite a while ago.

You can play as anyone you want in the demo if you quickly click on another province after starting a game. I had a bit of fun as the Duke of Northumberland earlier.

Colonel J
05-02-2012, 04:37 PM
I am still disappointed how Paradox is going, though, because I like my physical copies.

Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crusader-Kings-II-PC-CD/dp/B006NU6M5S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328456162&sr=8-1) has it. Here in UK anyway.

Vexing Vision
05-02-2012, 04:39 PM
According to Fred Wester's Twitter, we'll see the Steam pre-order go up very soon. Probably the demo, too.

pakoito
05-02-2012, 05:53 PM
My demo bugs in the military tutorial so I don't know what the fuck to do in the real game lol

Kaira-
05-02-2012, 05:58 PM
Amazon (http://www.amazon.co.uk/Crusader-Kings-II-PC-CD/dp/B006NU6M5S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1328456162&sr=8-1) has it. Here in UK anyway.

I was referring how all physical copies will need Steam, but if that decision has been rescinded (any source on this, haven't seen any so far?) I just might pick it up once I have a tad more time.

[E] Just tested the demo a bit, seems like a solid good game. I'm impressed.

Duckee
05-02-2012, 06:31 PM
My demo bugs in the military tutorial so I don't know what the fuck to do in the real game lol

You can skip forward using the arrows in the left corner when this happens.

Fede
05-02-2012, 06:34 PM
It was confirmed that all versions but GamersGate's will need Steam (but after verification they'll have no DRM, you can copy the directory somewhere else and run without Steam to avoid problems with mods and autopatching). The beta patches will be available to everyone instead, that was the decision that was rescinded.

Unfortunately for me the demo crashes to desktop on startup. I guess that while I can run EU:R, EU3 and the Victoria 2 demo my pc is simply too old. :(

pakoito
05-02-2012, 06:37 PM
You can skip forward using the arrows in the left corner when this happens.

DERP. Thanks.

Miker
05-02-2012, 07:26 PM
My demo bugs in the military tutorial so I don't know what the fuck to do in the real game lolI think I ran into the same problem last night, if it's the unload your troops thing. What you have to do is move your army to the province of Moray, and then the tutorial should continue from there. Skipping to the next part of the tutorial using the bottom left will go straight to the war tutorial, and you'll miss out on the rest of the military tutorial, which contains important info about sieging and whatnot.

pakoito
05-02-2012, 07:34 PM
I think I ran into the same problem last night, if it's the unload your troops thing. What you have to do is move your army to the province of Moray, and then the tutorial should continue from there. Skipping to the next part of the tutorial using the bottom left will go straight to the war tutorial, and you'll miss out on the rest of the military tutorial, which contains important info about sieging and whatnot.
DERPx2 thanks.

pakoito
05-02-2012, 08:01 PM
War Tutorial, bugged again, he won't accept my peace offerings lol

Stellar Duck
05-02-2012, 10:37 PM
Just spent the day playing the demo. Had an absolute blast.

I'm a bit too tired to write down my experience in detail so I'll just paste some impressions I shared with a friend on Steam along the way:


Fragments of Duke Vratislav II diary, dated between 1066 and 1084:

So, my wife told me that my youngest brother was plotting to assassinate my other brother, next eldest from me and next in line of the duchy. So now my youngest brother is in prison, the bastard. Now to see if I can get his title revoked and give that to my third brother who hates my guts.

Also, I think I will betroth my 4 year old son to the 47 year old mother of the current German Emperor. Should give me a bit of prestige and she will likely die before it can happen.

Just betrothed my daughter to the eldest son the of German Emperor.

I released my brother Ota from prison, figuring he had learned his lesson after 2 years in the dungeon. He then proceed to kill our brother and his wife. I attempted to put him in prison again, but he fled and raised a revolt. He then managed to convince my nephew of my oldest and dead brother to join him. So I crushed Ota and stuck him in prison and am dealing with my nephew now. Ingrate. I gave him a county, married him to the queen mother of Poland and set him up with a title because I felt sorry for his dad kicking the bucket when he was a kid. This is the thanks I get? He's going to the dungeon as soon as I can manage it.

Aside from that, I've been busy marrying off my daughters and finding suitable girls for my sons and making sure they got educated in the great courts of Europe. One is at the court of the Emperor, one and the King of Poland, who is my brother in law and one at the court of the duke of Bayern or some such, who is the father in law of my oldest girl.

I had 5 brothers. The eldest was dead before game start, I inherited his duchy. I have 3 younger brothers, but the next eldest was killed as I told, by the youngest. So now, until my boy comes of age my middle brother is my heir. So I need to watch out for him. And the youngest in in prison, hopefully along side my nephew of my oldest brother soon.

The nephew was thrown in the dungeon, but mysteriously he died from an acute case of assassination while in there. Poor lad.

This is a nest of vipers! Now my damn nephews old hag of a wife is trying to kill my youngest brothers daughter. I can't have that. Might wreak havoc on the inheritance set up I'm trying to produce.

Now my eldest son is finally of age.

That's my boy! Plotting behind his fathers back. I currently have inheritance rules that means that the eldest of the dynasty takes all. My son don't like that, so I sent his mum to spy on him after I granted him a county. A month later she discovered his plot to change the laws to primogeniture inheritance. Ambitious boy!

However, I think I'll let the plot brew for now. I want to change those laws myself but can't do it without angering my middle brother. So I'll see if my son can fix it. Though it's reason for concern that my traitor youngest brother is backing him. It might have been a mistake to release him from the dungeon.

Ah crap. Just managed to marry my daughter to the German Emperor and then then bloody game crashed. Oh well.

BenWah
06-02-2012, 03:27 AM
i had same problem, couldn't merge units in tutorial so i skipped to next part.

mike2R
06-02-2012, 04:13 AM
Nice: if you click the play button on the startup screen in the demo, and then immediately afterwards click on the place you want to start, you can glitch it into starting with any character :)

pakoito
06-02-2012, 12:34 PM
i had same problem, couldn't merge units in tutorial so i skipped to next part.You had to unpause, wait for both units to look like one, select them using a mouse selecting box and then clicking merge. The unintuitive part is waiting a week for the second troop to rrive.

Duckee
06-02-2012, 03:52 PM
Changing the years in the bookmark.txt and define.txt file to something like 900 should allow you to extend the demo, i.e. have a longer demo as the game ends in the year 1080 as opposed to after 20 years of playing.

This works like a charm, but you have a limited selection of starting characters. The game generates characters when you start though, so apart from having a small stable to select from you get a fully fledged experience.

I personally put it to 1016, as that has a slightly better stable.

Colonel J
06-02-2012, 07:31 PM
According to Fred Wester's Twitter, we'll see the Steam pre-order go up very soon. Probably the demo, too.


It was confirmed that all versions but GamersGate's will need Steam (but after verification they'll have no DRM, you can copy the directory somewhere else and run without Steam to avoid problems with mods and autopatching). The beta patches will be available to everyone instead, that was the decision that was rescinded.

Ah good to know, seems they've fixed most of the old gripes about Paradox games on Steam. Confirmed here (http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?581175-Crusader-Kings-II-Sales-DLC-amp-Patching-FAQ) also re: DRM. I might wait a bit for it to appear on Steam then before I order. One advantage there is they've confirmed there's a Mac version coming very soon after release and Steam gives you both versions, unlike GG. Gives me the option to have it on my work Mac too which is a bonus.

Loving the demo, really looking forward to the full game.

IDtenT
06-02-2012, 08:45 PM
I put in the year 500. :D Is one of the developers Irish? Anyways, played as Leinster, had fun. Almost become the king of Ireland, but then Connacht kicked me while I was down. :(

Pertusaria
06-02-2012, 09:26 PM
Downloaded and looking forward to trying, although given the lack of save files I'll wait till I have a decent chunk of time. The descriptions of the beta have sounded great.

I got an annoying message toward the end of setup that MS Visual C++ couldn't install something because I already had a newer version and "please resolve", but it doesn't seem to have led to any practical problems.

duff
07-02-2012, 12:48 AM
Steller Duck - that was awesome, thanks.

Miker
07-02-2012, 01:07 AM
So I finally finished the 27 (!) tutorials and I started a game. And I had no idea what to do. I married, but couldn't figure out how to have a child. I declared war on a small country and his troops grossly outnumbered mine. I put my councilor in a country in order to forge a claim, but then he left his post. I honestly have no idea how to play this game.

pakoito
07-02-2012, 01:28 AM
So I finally finished the 27 (!) tutorials and I started a game. And I had no idea what to do. I married, but couldn't figure out how to have a child. I declared war on a small country and his troops grossly outnumbered mine. I put my councilor in a country in order to forge a claim, but then he left his post. I honestly have no idea how to play this game.You're playing it...and you are losing xD Next time change your strategy and watch the outcome I guess. I haven't played yet lol

pakoito
07-02-2012, 03:42 AM
Ok, finished my game...kinda got boring after 15 years.

I played as one of the two kings of the split kingdom of Spain (Castille/Leon). Not a year in, I got a formal invitation of Holy War against Muslims in Catalonia, while I had to suffocate my sister's ambitions for my throne. She rotted in prison with her vassals as soon as I learned how sieges worked...kinda. Muslims were defeated too.

My first wife was full of piety bonuses but hated me and wouldn't have children, so I assassinated her and chose a better fit. Two kids later, I'm trying to get the center of the peninsula from Muslim invasion, but those bastards have better tech than me so my troop win/lose ratio was worse. So I just flickered a bit with the court, trying to get some people kill others and stuff, but it was boring.

Pseudo310
07-02-2012, 06:42 AM
I played some manner of Polish nobleman for awhile. Got married, had an heir, then caught my brother trying to murder my son. I tried to arrest him but he started a rebellion which sucked because I was in the middle of a holy war and had to bring my army back to deal with it. After that I had a few daughters along with delusions of becoming a pinnacle of virtue (I couldn't figure out how to increase my character's piousness score even though he really wanted me to). I also falsified a land claim to a neighboring county and conquered it, and then had to put down a couple rebellions there. I stopped playing when I accidentally bankrupted Poland by hiring some insanely expensive mercenaries to go fight a holy war in Sardinia for me.

I am extremely enthusiastic about the full release.

duff
07-02-2012, 12:00 PM
From what I gather the beta (and full release) had a full tutorial, whilst the demo just has a series of tips. Can anyone confirm this? If so I think I'll hold out for the full game.

Vexing Vision
07-02-2012, 12:53 PM
The demo has a full tutorial. It's very detailed but not very well written. There's a ton of chapters.

I actually found the pop-up tips much more helpful figuring out what's going on than the tutorial.


The tutorial explains things in very, very small steps - I would find something similar to Shogun 2's excellent tutorial much more helpful, where you are not only explained where to click to do something, but also why and the possible repercussions.

mike2R
07-02-2012, 01:35 PM
The best story I've had out of it so far was playing Matilda. I had done some heathen bashing in Sicily and conquered Genoa, and was approaching the end of the demo period. My two daughters and one son by an Argonese nobleman were growing up, the son was 15 and had excellent stats. I was quite happily going to leave Tuscany with expanded lands and a strong male heir.

Then out of the blue my son died, and I got a message saying one of my husband's kinsmen, the King of Navarre, was likely responsible. I was genuinely angry - some petty 2 province so-called king killed my only son, probably over some tiny Iberian inheritance no one else cared about!

I wanted to assassinate him back, but the odds were poor. So I had the Pope excommunicate him, then used that as a pretext and marched on Navarre with my full forces. Took his castles in short order, and deposed him (the normal outcome of a successful excommunication war). Then once he was stripped of his rank and the protection that went with it, I sent in my assassins.

The message the game gave me said he died choking on his own blood, never knowing who killed him. But I think, as the light faded from his eyes, that he knew very well...

Colonel J
07-02-2012, 06:07 PM
It's up on Steam (http://store.steampowered.com/app/203770/). Same price as GG and includes a copy of CK1 Complete and the (fairly trivial) pre-order DLC. Though I wonder if those Mongol faces mean they'll start appearing into your family tree if you marry off your son or daughter as a peace offering, which would be fun.

TimA
07-02-2012, 06:45 PM
Here are links to the CK2 manual in four languages:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?583630-Crusader-Kings-II-Manual&

What a fantastic demo this is, really looking forward to the full game now.

BenWah
07-02-2012, 06:58 PM
The message the game gave me said he died choking on his own blood, never knowing who killed him. But I think, as the light faded from his eyes, that he knew very well...

Yeah except it might not have been him to assasinated your son in the first place!
LOL

pakoito
07-02-2012, 07:19 PM
The message the game gave me said he died choking on his own blood, never knowing who killed him. But I think, as the light faded from his eyes, that he knew very well...

Yeah except it might not have been him to assasinated your son in the first place!
LOLHow can you know who on hindsight?

Labbes
07-02-2012, 10:44 PM
Sometimes after an assassination, there will be a message "Person X strongly believes Person Y was responsible for this", or just something like "You think he did not die a natural death."
It's always rather vague, although it's obviously more fun if you counter-assassinate.

pakoito
07-02-2012, 11:00 PM
I once assassinated myself, and I felt suspicious of it. It was fun. And bug.

Labbes
08-02-2012, 12:43 AM
I once tried to assassinate my wife, which didn't go well since afterwards, she assassinated me.
My heir then got informated that it may not have been natural causes. Really!

IDtenT
08-02-2012, 02:21 PM
I've played this demo to death by now. Fuck! I'm excited for this game. $40 is just too rich for me, but being Paradox I'd expect a 50% off sale before the end of the year. I also have to pick up the Vicky expansion when it goes on sale.

duff
08-02-2012, 03:03 PM
Yeh it's a bit pricey, but it does have tons of replay value so I'm quite tempted.

Berzee
08-02-2012, 03:07 PM
I tried this demo last night; it's the first time I've played a game of genuine strategery in quite a while!

I spent 1 hour reading menus and tips, and then I saw that there was a tiny tribe of heathens next to my kingdom who didn't like me. So I got spooked and declared preemptive war.

How do they manage to FIT that many heathens into so small a country?

I will start over and make another attempt tonight. =P

Fede
08-02-2012, 10:15 PM
@Berzee: if they were pagans, they have been made stronger to avoid them disappearing by 1100, as happened sometimes in CK1; if they were muslims, they also start with better tech :)

Berzee
08-02-2012, 10:23 PM
@Berzee: if they were pagans, they have been made stronger to avoid them disappearing by 1100, as happened sometimes in CK1; if they were muslims, they also start with better tech :)

They were in a tiny country north of Poland; I'll have to check exactly what they were, I was too disoriented to pay proper attention. I just saw he didn't like me and thought "I NEED TO KILL HIM BEFORE HE KILLS ME".

The battle system seems nifty, with the three phases and all.

Fede
08-02-2012, 10:39 PM
Oh, definately pagans then. Probably Danzig or the Pomeranians.

The battle system has been improved since CK1. Actually, almost everything has, I like most of what I've seen. There are still a few gamey tactics, but the game is probably more enjoyable if you roleplay a bit, anyways :)

duff
08-02-2012, 11:08 PM
Sadly I don't have much experience with Paradox strategy games (though I hope to rectify that) but the word is they are usually pretty buggy and its a good a idea to wait for a few patches before buying. Anyone got any opinions on the stability of the demo?

Starry Vere
08-02-2012, 11:14 PM
I was baffled by Crusader Kings I, even with the manual, though it certainly seemed like the type of game I should like. Is this any easier to get into?

Wrongshui
08-02-2012, 11:27 PM
Sadly I don't have much experience with Paradox strategy games (though I hope to rectify that) but the word is they are usually pretty buggy and its a good a idea to wait for a few patches before buying. Anyone got any opinions on the stability of the demo?

Had no stability issues with it at all, Sengoku was stable at release as well, if a bit shallow.

Nullkigan
08-02-2012, 11:48 PM
It's not usually a stability thing.

The bugs are usually stuff like "After 300 years the game has generated so many characters and families that it slows to a crawl", "The Panama Canal ships goods at such an incredible rate that the US home territories never have stockpiles, everything is at the frontline bases", "It's never safe to retreat from battle because the winner gets a speed boost and will get to the province you're retreating to before you, destroying your army" and "The decisions menu shows the option titles in the opposite order of their actual effects". Occasionally, "The AI will refuse to attack on this front". These tend to get patched out.

The real complaints are "this is boring" (because it's an event driven game with no events [Sengoku]), "this is worse than the old game" (because now I just set the AI to do things for me, which is boring, and the map complexity kind of requires it [HoI3]), "this is unbalanced" (because there are infinite Jacobin uprisings [Victoria II]) and "this is ahistorical!" (because certain nations are represented poorly due to poor research/low interest from the developers and/or the simplified game mechanics [EUIII]).

CK2 will probably be buggy for a while and fall into the first category of complaints until the expansion. If you go through the list of available plots and ambitions in the demo, 90% of AI characters can only "plot to assassinate spouse/child in law/superior". There are a few throwaways like "get married" and "have children", but those'll be happening anyway so they're kind of worthless. Hopefully the full release or first expansion will add a lot more and let you plot with unhappy neighbouring lords to have them join your cause, etc.

This doesn't mean it can't be fun. It'll just be a Pretty Border Simulator for a while until it gets the additional content and functionality that makes it really good.

Xercies
08-02-2012, 11:58 PM
They were in a tiny country north of Poland; I'll have to check exactly what they were, I was too disoriented to pay proper attention. I just saw he didn't like me and thought "I NEED TO KILL HIM BEFORE HE KILLS ME".

I did the same thing as you, I thought well I've got married and nothings happening lets start a war with those pagans at the North there, they shouldn't be to hard. AH! 1800 men! Lets just quietly quit from that and never speak of it again lol XD

But i'm liking it, the UI is so much better then the first one and it makes it easier to understand a lot, though still a bit shaky on how everything truly works but a few games should get me that. To be honest i'm really liking it and I will be looking at maybe buying it.

IDtenT
09-02-2012, 01:14 AM
I was baffled by Crusader Kings I, even with the manual, though it certainly seemed like the type of game I should like. Is this any easier to get into?
I found CKI very easy. Easier than EUIII even. CKII has better tutorials though, but the game is far more complex than CKI.

duff
09-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Nullkigan - I noticed that with the plots/ambitions. Although a few of them were to get on your liege's council, which turned out quite cool when I actually achieved it. Maybe they should put in a system where you can select a plot type (assassinate, imprison, usurp, ally etc.) and a plot target (character, title, county) from drop down menus. But maybe with the huge amount of possible variables it could be very complex to get working correctly.

Did Sengoku suffer from the 'slowdown as more characters are created' issue? I think its the same engine so that might be an indicator. This is a sequel and they recently released Sengoku so I'm gonna be hopeful that they've had good oppurtunity to iron out everything, plus the game has been in a presentable state for over a year now.

IDtenT - Is it really and how so? I never played the first one, the poor resolution and lurning curve bitch slapped me. :(

Nullkigan
09-02-2012, 02:33 PM
Nullkigan - I noticed that with the plots/ambitions. Although a few of them were to get on your liege's council, which turned out quite cool when I actually achieved it. Maybe they should put in a system where you can select a plot type (assassinate, imprison, usurp, ally etc.) and a plot target (character, title, county) from drop down menus. But maybe with the huge amount of possible variables it could be very complex to get working correctly.

Did Sengoku suffer from the 'slowdown as more characters are created' issue? I think its the same engine so that might be an indicator. This is a sequel and they recently released Sengoku so I'm gonna be hopeful that they've had good oppurtunity to iron out everything, plus the game has been in a presentable state for over a year now.

IDtenT - Is it really and how so? I never played the first one, the poor resolution and lurning curve bitch slapped me. :(

Yeah, I'm expecting the first expansion to be something of a content pack rather than new mechanics. Sort of like in A House Divided you can now justify wars by setting up a series of war goals. Maybe a tiny bit of naval stuff as well - at the moment you can't really stop naval landings except on the beaches :)

One thing I really noticed missing in the demo (though I didn't do the tutorials, so maybe it's actually there and I just didn't find it) is the ability to petition your liege lord to assist when a neighbour declares war on you. With familial alliances you get a nice popup icon telling you that you can do so.

I'm not sure if Sengoku had the character lineage slowdown, but Sengoku was a) over a shorter time period and b) smaller. The fix in CK1 was to download a tool that would delete the completely dead and irrelevant families from the save file, so there's probably now a better storage format and some sort of smart trimming built in. Plus computers are now more powerful.

duff
09-02-2012, 02:52 PM
Word on the paradox forums is that the game does indeed trim dead people from the save file. And yeh it would be pretty strange if you can't request aid from your liege if another vassal declares war on you. In the demo last night I captured a small one county vassal (Osterreich?) as Bohemia and the HRE didn't bat an eyelid, though I guess this is during a time when Crown authority is limited and the feudal system is fluid with usurpation and conflict.

rhizo
14-02-2012, 09:57 PM
First game finished with the full game and the Nakonid dynasty ended up petering out after all the male heirs died. I have to say one of the most immediate concerns for me was the overpowered pagan chiefs. It's my understanding that they were buffed in order to keep the pagans on the map a bit longer but the Pomeranians and Lettigalians ended up devastating Sweden, Norway and Denmark in a couple of successive wars. This led to the weakening of Denmark and its vassals were soon revolting. It seems a bit unbalanced but that was to be expected.

Pseudo310
14-02-2012, 11:51 PM
On my 3rd generation character now (grandson of William the Conqueror), and does anyone know how as a Crusader King I can join a crusade? I keep seeing the calls for them but I'm not sure how I get involved.

duff
15-02-2012, 12:12 AM
Quick question, anyone know if Crown Laws (such as high crown authority) persist through a succession? Or are those laws returned to default settings when a new person comes to the throne?

Nullkigan
15-02-2012, 12:44 AM
On my 3rd generation character now (grandson of William the Conqueror), and does anyone know how as a Crusader King I can join a crusade? I keep seeing the calls for them but I'm not sure how I get involved.

There'll be a banner under your character portrait, mouse over and it'll tell you the destination province. Find the province (there's a find option on the bottom right), find out who the big boss is and declare war with the Crusade Casus Belli. You'll probably want 6,000+ troops though; I've seen Emirs field upwards of 17k in a single stack even in 1080.


Quick question, anyone know if Crown Laws (such as high crown authority) persist through a succession? Or are those laws returned to default settings when a new person comes to the throne?

They persist... and so do the penalties associated. Which puts a successor in a VERY precarious position and your kingdom will tear itself apart unless the successor is an amazing diplomat.

duff
15-02-2012, 01:26 AM
They persist... and so do the penalties associated. Which puts a successor in a VERY precarious position and your kingdom will tear itself apart unless the successor is an amazing diplomat.

Hmmm... currently I'm the only Saxon duke remaining in England so getting support from Norman dukes against William the Bastard is virtually impossible. Hopefully they will dislike the new successor enough to plot with me to remove crown authority. I must reclaim my dejure lands!

Oak
15-02-2012, 05:36 AM
Fun. Played several hours as William II of Sicily (just died in a very inopportune war), taking screenshots and notes along the way, yet now I can't be bothered to write up what I can assure you is a cracking tale of sex, murder, and betrayal.

The way levies seem to work, the AI will raise them with every (monthly) replenishment, even when their county of origin is occupied by a vastly superior force. My sieging armies are contiually being attacked by tiny forces that pop up and die off immediately.

Anyway, fun.

SanguineAngel
15-02-2012, 11:56 AM
Oh god I cannot wait to get this game. Damn you, money!

Actually this thread is providing not just entertaining tales but also handy tips! Thanks

"
The way levies seem to work, the AI will raise them with every (monthly) replenishment, even when their county of origin is occupied by a vastly superior force. My sieging armies are contiually being attacked by tiny forces that pop up and die off immediately"
That probably makes sense, doesn't it? A conquered people can often only offer limited resistance. But you have invaded their home so they will do that

duff
15-02-2012, 02:00 PM
To finish the story from my post above:

William the Bastard contracted syphilis and died sooner than expected. Sadly many of the Norman dukes remained fiercely loyal to his son as they had been granted duchy's in their lifetime. But several minor lords rebelled, so myself (Duke of York) decided to throw in my lot and join them. After about 5 years of fighting neither side was able to gain much of an advantage but it looked like the King was going to win through attrition eventually. But at this stage the King of Scotland declares war on me and rams me up the arse while all my forces are engaged in the south.

So far I'm really liking the game, my only qualm is it can get quite boring if you are the direct vassal of a powerful monarch with high crown authority.

Xercies
15-02-2012, 04:27 PM
Yes I agree, don't be Bohemia because there really isn't much they can do about anything, they can't even help in the war between the pagans because their army is quite poo.

Mr Bismarck
15-02-2012, 05:09 PM
I like to start CK games in backwaters, but this time I may have picked one too watery and way, way back.


Connacht in Western Ireland is ruled by Aed Ua Conchobair who's 51 at game start and has a 46 year old wife. They have one son who, despite never having married has two sons of his own. The grandchildren are morons who hate PopPop Aed, which is fine because it means that their opinion won't drop too much when I have them killed.


Sadly the surroundings are the worst possible situation - everyone is across a river, which means a penalty to attacking and they all also have sneakily built hills and forests, meaning a bonus to defence. -ATT,+DEF sounds like a recipe for disaster unless you have a spectacular Marshall, which I don't, so I've mostly stayed home building trade villages on my castles and markets on my church to improve tax revenue.


Aed had no useful ambitions to start the game - he could choose from becoming about as pious as eight or nine popes combined, killing his wife, or having a daughter. I picked the daughter one despite the royal couple's combined age of 97 and the fact that he's chaste and she's sick, leading to a fertility rating akin to a pair of rocks. Surprisingly, they didn't manage to get pregnant in the first 10 years of the game and chances of conception then took an even more serious dip when Aed died.


About five years before he shuffled off the mortal coil, the game modeled some sort of mid-life, (almost end of life?), crisis as, out of the blue, Aed took up boar hunting and his wife started bugging him for a falcon. A conversation I look forward to having with Lady Bismarck one day.


Going hunting seemed to annoy everyone as Aed was beset with random people turning up every five minutes begging him to stop in case he hurt himself. He turned them all down at -15 to relations every time he did so. I hope there's an afterlife for Aed to feel smug in, because ultimately: Number of times killed on hunt : 0. Number of times died in sleep : 1.


Aed's son Ruaidri took what passes for a crown and celebrated with his wife, who promptly died. So he switched from being married to an uptight Princess from Navarre to being married to some wannabe-royal from Denmark whose traits suggest she could trip you up and be under you before you hit the ground. Her ambition was to marry into royalty, so I hope she enjoys all the spoils of position she is conferred in a rainy dunghole in the middle of nowhere.


The only consistent excitement in Connacht has been the Priests... (do your own jokes). I'm on my fourth after the previous three all converted to the heretic Cathar religion and tried to sell me on it. This has given me some use of my jails, at least, as the last thing I need is Pope Bastard giving the locals a casus belli to come and steal my stuff. I've run out of useful candidates for the church positions as a result of this, to the degree that the current preacher is somewhat less effective than if I'd given the position to a pig with a bucket on its head.


So I'm turning Connact into a bastion of research and development instead. Partly through hard work and council research bonuses, (apart from the preacher, Father Stupid, obviously), and partly by using my rather good Spy master to go around the surrounding areas and look over people's shoulders. A couple of the things I've stolen have improved troop levels, but ideally I'd like to raise tax levels a bit more so I can bring in some mercenaries to go soften up some of my neighbours. Specifically Breifne to the direct east, as I have a soup du jour claim on their lands, which means I can attack them at any time without having to have a good reason, or fabricating a terrible one.


Favourite thing about the game so far is the new Duke's old dead wife's dad - I would make him King just for that beard alone. Wow.


http://i.imgur.com/Nuhyw.jpg


Yes, even though he's dead.

IDtenT
15-02-2012, 07:25 PM
The Irish counties are some of the easiest to play. Why? Because nothing can stop your expansionism - no crown laws, no kingdom - but you have to start early. Get three counties in your rule and you have Ireland almost guaranteed.

Try playing Lubeck without swearing fealty or Iceland and see if you can expand anywhere. Both are practically impossible as far as expansion goes and the only solution would be working your way into family trees over Europe. If you're really up for a challenge then try the Kingdom of Jerusalem without swearing fealty to Byzantium.

Sketch
17-02-2012, 03:26 AM
For someone who has never tried the series before, is it worth getting into, if I really enjoy the campaign map of Total War games, more than the battles themselves? I understand it would be a lot more complex.

rhizo
17-02-2012, 08:48 AM
I'd say it is. The learning curve will test your patience a bit, but the game gets better quickly as you learn the ropes. The complexity in this game is not as daunting as the hardcore Paradox games. Then again, the strategy elements of TW games are not necessarily a fitting comparison. You'll have much less direct influence on the game world here and at times have to focus on internal politics for long stretches. CK2's the more interesting take on strategic gameplay for sure.

Jockie
17-02-2012, 01:38 PM
I decided to get this (by which I mean, I've been given review code) and gamersgate's download service is giving me a headache, the download always starts at full speed then drops to 0kbs in a matter of seconds.

Does Gamersgate have any know compat issues with virus protection etc? I looked through their FAQ and it only gave some rather vague advice suggesting there is likely a firewall/protection conflict.

Stellar Duck
17-02-2012, 04:05 PM
I decided to get this (by which I mean, I've been given review code) and gamersgate's download service is giving me a headache, the download always starts at full speed then drops to 0kbs in a matter of seconds.

Does Gamersgate have any know compat issues with virus protection etc? I looked through their FAQ and it only gave some rather vague advice suggesting there is likely a firewall/protection conflict.

No idea if this is a general thing, but my virus scanners real time scan always flag the GG install files and quarantines them. No idea if it's related, but it might be worth looking into.

Sketch
17-02-2012, 04:51 PM
I'd say it is. The learning curve will test your patience a bit, but the game gets better quickly as you learn the ropes. The complexity in this game is not as daunting as the hardcore Paradox games. Then again, the strategy elements of TW games are not necessarily a fitting comparison. You'll have much less direct influence on the game world here and at times have to focus on internal politics for long stretches. CK2's the more interesting take on strategic gameplay for sure.


Thanks, it does sound extremely interesting. Going to download the demo.

Jockie
17-02-2012, 08:28 PM
No idea if this is a general thing, but my virus scanners real time scan always flag the GG install files and quarantines them. No idea if it's related, but it might be worth looking into.

Well, turned out it was an ACTUAL virus, that my virus scanner completely failed to detect, that was inputting false proxy information into my internet settings and causing external downloader programes to fail.

If you think that's vagely ironic, then the source of the virus was from a website linked to by Iain M. Bank's website, an author whose book I was researching to inform a story i'm writing, which has a large focus on use of viruses as terrorist weapons.

IDtenT
17-02-2012, 10:47 PM
If you think that's vagely ironic, then the source of the virus was from a website linked to by Iain M. Bank's website, an author whose book I was researching to inform a story i'm writing, which has a large focus on use of viruses as terrorist weapons.
Insider warning? Double bluff? :P

Jockie
18-02-2012, 03:27 AM
Insider warning? Double bluff? :P

I'm just putting it down to it being one of those days.

Back on-topic, I've only just managed to get the game running and I'm tremendously excited by the fact I can play as the Prince Bishop of Durham. I think CKII is the first game I've played that has actually acknowledged the existence of my hometown.

Hope to plough into this over the weekend.
Edit: Oh, not allowed to play as Theocracies!, will have to settle for Northumberland

Jockie
18-02-2012, 02:57 PM
I'm still no entirely sure what I'm suppsoed to be doing, but raher enjoying myself nonetheless. My Count of Northumberland married a spanish princess and now has two children. His son is a Genius and as heir I'm guessing that's a decent trait to have. Conversely his daughter is apparently a 'drooling imbecile'.

I've started trying to fabricate a claim for the isle of man, because I feel like I should be expanding more, maybe eventually set my sights on the welsh dynasty, does that seem like a reasonable goal, or overly ambitious?

IDtenT
18-02-2012, 08:04 PM
I'm still no entirely sure what I'm suppsoed to be doing, but raher enjoying myself nonetheless. My Count of Northumberland married a spanish princess and now has two children. His son is a Genius and as heir I'm guessing that's a decent trait to have. Conversely his daughter is apparently a 'drooling imbecile'.

I've started trying to fabricate a claim for the isle of man, because I feel like I should be expanding more, maybe eventually set my sights on the welsh dynasty, does that seem like a reasonable goal, or overly ambitious?
More than reasonable. This is the easiest game by Paradox, imho - if your objective is spreading your dynasty.

rhizo
18-02-2012, 09:09 PM
More than reasonable. This is the easiest game by Paradox, imho - if your objective is spreading your dynasty.

Yep, the Paradox forums are lamenting the lack of challenge as well. Though the patch on Friday made some changes to make things more expensive etc. I would expect future patches to follow suit. And there are a bunch of mods already that somewhat re-balance the game if you're finding things too easy.

duff
18-02-2012, 09:52 PM
Really? I'm finding it quite hard to expand, but all my Kings so far have had strong support and enacted absolute Crown Authority so I can't even go to war with the Scots! I tried a bit of plotting but my leader ended up in the Tower.

IDtenT
19-02-2012, 05:29 AM
Had a really fun game playing as Von Habsburg, mostly sticked to Burgundy though. Never quite got my foot in with the Emperor, so I decided to claim independence instead. \o/

Jockie
19-02-2012, 06:37 AM
My game majorly messed up when my 76 year old ruler tried to overthrown the Duke who was her liege, I succeeded (while holding off the king of England on another front), but it then deposed my character as well as the chap she was overthrowing and transferred the leadership to a lesser branch of my dynasty I'd married off years ago. God knows what happened to the carefully honed and trained generation of the family that were next in line.

But yeah, it also reset my score and got rid of my large army, meaning the king of England got all up in my face.

I think I can probably start again safely and slightly higher up the food chain now that I (vaguely) know what I'm doing .

(Also, 5AM, I like this game a lot.)

Wrongshui
19-02-2012, 01:04 PM
Playing from the 2nd bookmark I'm having a hard time holding England, Scotland and Wales together. Each succession brings with it a decade of civil war and a new round of imprisonments, after which I continue my conquests, Ireland next.

Although I haven't been transferring the counties where I am direct liege to Dukes in their de jure duchies. I didn't realise I was meant to.

Shane
19-02-2012, 03:11 PM
As someone who is playing a grand strategy game for the first time, Crusader Kings 2 confounds me. What is it that I'm supposed to do? I set the betrothal of my son to my liege's heir, sent my spy-master to build his network in my neighbor's land and sent gifts to everyone who doesn't like me, but I did all that stuff simply because there was an option to do so, and I'm still unaware as to what use these actions will be. I don't know if I should play each day or fast forward to the next month. Could anyone point me to explain or point me to a guide that handholds thickheads like as to what these games are about and what (and how) I am supposed to do in them.

duff
19-02-2012, 04:29 PM
As someone who is playing a grand strategy game for the first time, Crusader Kings 2 confounds me. What is it that I'm supposed to do? I set the betrothal of my son to my liege's heir, sent my spy-master to build his network in my neighbor's land and sent gifts to everyone who doesn't like me, but I did all that stuff simply because there was an option to do so, and I'm still unaware as to what use these actions will be. I don't know if I should play each day or fast forward to the next month. Could anyone point me to explain or point me to a guide that handholds thickheads like as to what these games are about and what (and how) I am supposed to do in them.

The overall 'goal' of the game is to build up as much prestige and piety as you can. You build up these just by staying alive, so sometimes your job is just to ensure the very survival of your dynasty: securing the loyalty of your vassals and a clear line of succession. But really, your goals are what you make them. If you want to expand your land you could build up your military and press your dejure claims, to do this you may need to plot to lower the crown authority of your realm first (to allow external wars or wars between vassals). You might want to expand your dynasty through subterfuge: marrying into titles and then making sure no heirs live to claim then. Most of these actions carry a risk though and you need to assess whether its worth angering your liege. Its also absolutely fine to fast forward, I almost never pause and spend most of my time on the 2nd speed and if there is fighting going on I take it down to the first speed.

Zephro
19-02-2012, 06:28 PM
I've been playing as Scotland all weekend. I can't consistently expand myself outside the De Jure Kingdom, but it's great fun scheming and plotting. Minor problem but I never get any interesting ambitions. It's always just kill my wife, my carefully considered and talented wife...

duff
19-02-2012, 06:30 PM
You get penalties for unlanded sons, so you might want to get her to pop out an heir and a back up and then slit her throat.

Zephro
19-02-2012, 07:28 PM
You get penalties for unlanded sons, so you might want to get her to pop out an heir and a back up and then slit her throat.

My solution to that is to marry off the excess to Duchess/Countesses etc. That way they get shipped out of my court.

rhizo
19-02-2012, 09:53 PM
My solution to that is to marry off the excess to Duchess/Countesses etc. That way they get shipped out of my court.
Matrilineal marriages are a dangerous game. Just had to assassinate my way out of trouble when the expected line of inheritance was abruptly changed (2 heirs bit the typhusy dust) so that my only heir was married to a duchess and already had two sons. After a dead wife and two buried sons I had to remarry regularly and hope for another boy. Except that my new bride was soon discovered to be a lesbian... My advice would be to keep the line of inheritance safe by not marrying your sons off to foreign courts. Otherwise the game could literally end in a couple of generations. Less immediate relatives are much safer.

JayTee
19-02-2012, 10:12 PM
...Minor problem but I never get any interesting ambitions. It's always just kill my wife, my carefully considered and talented wife...This is my current one complaint about CK2, the ambitions are frankly shite. I want some really interesting unique ambitions that change how my 'character' plays, only I only ever get 'I want to get married and have kids' or 'I want to kill my wife'.

Other than that I really enjoy this game. I'm currently playing as a relatively minor Duke in Sicily trying to form the Kingdom of Sicily to eventually kick the HRE out of Italy but thanks to a variety of issues like rebellious vassals, a second son who's a complete bitch, and a general lack of money I'm probably going to have to rely on my heir to carry that off.

Jockie
19-02-2012, 11:03 PM
My Cousin just declared war on me because I got syphilis (I think it automatically gives you -30 relations with any female character and things were already strained)








And in the game.

BenWah
19-02-2012, 11:59 PM
I'm loving this game!

Been playing several shortened games with the King of Georgia.
I managed to get one county to join me by requesting they become my vassal, thought that was good.
Was a blood relation in charge that's probably why it worked.

I'm not very good at taking over places via heirs yet.
I haven't figured out "betrothal" yet, guess it's where you marry off little kids early in the hopes of getting titles later?

I'm confused about technology -- all my starting counties have 0 technology.
When I take over a high tech county, is there something I need to do to get maximum benefit from it?
Does my king need to control it directly himself to get all the tech benefits throughout the nation?

duff
20-02-2012, 12:33 AM
Oh God... so my dynasty leader had 3 sons, and to avoid the unlanded sons penalties I gave them all titles. Then the oldest son went and had a son of his own.. then promptly died. So now my dynastic heir is a 6 year old with 2 older, ambitious, cruel, and envious uncles. Yes, you guessed it, my leader then went and popped it aswell. :(

Also, despite having two Saxon parents, little Gilberts' culture is English.. so now all my vassals hate me for being a foreigner!

Zephro
20-02-2012, 03:51 PM
Matrilineal marriages are a dangerous game. Just had to assassinate my way out of trouble when the expected line of inheritance was abruptly changed (2 heirs bit the typhusy dust) so that my only heir was married to a duchess and already had two sons. After a dead wife and two buried sons I had to remarry regularly and hope for another boy. Except that my new bride was soon discovered to be a lesbian... My advice would be to keep the line of inheritance safe by not marrying your sons off to foreign courts. Otherwise the game could literally end in a couple of generations. Less immediate relatives are much safer.

Nah nothing Matrileneal going on. I the king of Scotland married off a prince or two (second, third sons even first sons). With a normal marriage to the tiny duchies around Holland. They end up either at someone's court acting as Duke/Count consort and their kids are part of my family. No idea why they agreed to it, I think it's because my house was so much more prestigious than their own. Right now Poland, England and some of France are all ruled by other branches of my family. I eventually inherited all the Dutch/Belgian dutchies into the main family branch.

I also managed to get lots of troublesome Uncles out of the blasted country during a regency using similar tricks. My current problem is that too many of my family are abroad now when I need them to fill out some dynastic problems in the low countries using some good Scottish blood/spunk.

The trick of balancing your demese against the different opponents within your kingdom and playing them all off against each other is great fun though!

mike2R
20-02-2012, 04:43 PM
Epic fail on my part, and it has been great fun!

I started as the King of Denmark from the Third Crusade bookmark. Fairly pedestrian opening; mopped up some of the remaining pagans, grabbed a county or two from some Russian Dukes, even declared war on the HRE and took Anhalt when it was going through some civil strife.

During this, I married my daughter to the King of Poland for an alliance. Normally this doesn't result in any problems - only landed nobility generate inheritances, so although my daughter would get claims on my crown when I died, she wouldn't pass them on. Only this time she died young, when I died the King of Poland ended up with three sons with claims on my King title - my new King's nephews.

He first tried to press it when they were children. Which was unfortunate for his eldest. You can't press a claim for a dead child, so the war ended abruptly. I should have cleaned it up then, but I wasn't particularly keen on the kinslayer trait (don't know if you get it for killing non-dynastic nephews) so I left it, and thought I'd deal with it if it became a problem.

Fast forward a couple of decades; Denmark is strong but I'm personally weak after an ill-advised experiment with Gavelkind, and I declare war on (massive and very well allied but in civil war) Novogrod, to try and recover a county they'd stolen from me a while back. A mistake. I beat the main stacks, but was under constant pressure, vassal levies raised for far far too long. I might have ground it out, but the good old Paradox dogpile came into play. Sweden declared war over a province claim of one of their border lords. Then Poland came to call with my now adult relative's claim to my throne.

There really wasn't anything I could do. I could white peace with Novogrod. I could let Sweden have the border province they were after. I still wouldn't have been able to beat them in the condition I was in, and no doubt the HRE would come to call at some point wanting Anhalt back. I had to surrender.

So here I am. I started as the King of Denmark. Now I'm a Duke. I own 3 castles in two provinces (and only one actual county). And all I can think about are the possibilities. When the King of Poland dies, Poland and Denmark will be united under a single ruler. I fully intend to build up a power base across both countries and retake my family's crown from those usurping Piasts. I think I might add their family's crown while I'm at it.

Jockie
20-02-2012, 06:02 PM
I'm a a loss as to how to proceed currently, started as an Irish duke, who is now the king and have control over all of Ireland. Thanks to a ludicrously high personal diplomacy stat (30 for my king, plus chancellor and wife it's on about 64) everyone is happy with my rule, but I'm not sure where to proceed - it was more exciting when I was constantly warring with disgruntled cousins.

Im fabricating a claim to Gwent and eventually might be able to grab that, I could probably save up enough cash for a holy war in Spain, where there are still a lot of Muslims, but I'd need the help of an expensive holy army. My Grandson might end up inheriting a couple of English Duchies (including the quite lucrative Oxford) and might have a claim to the throne of England, but I'm not sure how that will pan out, beside my ruler is only 40, so thats potentially 60+ years away unless I decide to make him my heir (I'm using Elective succession, because there was an awful heir in the line for all my titles, who would have caused an unwinnable civil war).

I missed my chance to war with Scotland, when they were excommunicated, I warred with them over my claim to Ulster, but didn't believe I had to resources to Overthrow their King, in hindsight I probably could have made it a holy war and gotten a lot more out of it. The current pope rather likes the current Scottish King though.

Guess I should wait for my Gwent Claim to mature for now, but I'd like to set my sights a little higher than Wales!

rhizo
20-02-2012, 07:22 PM
They end up either at someone's court acting as Duke/Count consort and their kids are part of my family. No idea why they agreed to it, I think it's because my house was so much more prestigious than their own.

I was playing as a count when the tragedy struck so there's the difference. Might have been that I accidentally accepted a matrilineal marriage proposal. Seems that the AI does use the "Would prefer a matrilineal marriage" as a strong minus factor in its decision making, though it of course can be balanced out with other benefits. Counts or their subjects rarely possess those however.

Matrilineal marriages can be used as a road to higher titles, though that often requires some intrigue (read assassinations). In fact I, despite almost losing the game, ended up gaining the Duchy of Savoie for my troubles. Not that it's been anything but trouble after pissing off the lower nobility with assassinations.

Stellar Duck
20-02-2012, 07:25 PM
I'm a a loss as to how to proceed currently, started as an Irish duke, who is now the king and have control over all of Ireland. Thanks to a ludicrously high personal diplomacy stat (30 for my king, plus chancellor and wife it's on about 64) everyone is happy with my rule, but I'm not sure where to proceed - it was more exciting when I was constantly warring with disgruntled cousins.

Im fabricating a claim to Gwent and eventually might be able to grab that, I could probably save up enough cash for a holy war in Spain, where there are still a lot of Muslims, but I'd need the help of an expensive holy army. My Grandson might end up inheriting a couple of English Duchies (including the quite lucrative Oxford) and might have a claim to the throne of England, but I'm not sure how that will pan out, beside my ruler is only 40, so thats potentially 60+ years away unless I decide to make him my heir (I'm using Elective succession, because there was an awful heir in the line for all my titles, who would have caused an unwinnable civil war).

I missed my chance to war with Scotland, when they were excommunicated, I warred with them over my claim to Ulster, but didn't believe I had to resources to Overthrow their King, in hindsight I probably could have made it a holy war and gotten a lot more out of it. The current pope rather likes the current Scottish King though.

Guess I should wait for my Gwent Claim to mature for now, but I'd like to set my sights a little higher than Wales!

You could ask the Pope to excommunicate Scotland again? Give them a good kicking if he agrees. Or invite some claimants to your court and press their claims?

Jockie
20-02-2012, 08:31 PM
The current Scottish King is one of those pope-kissing Crusader types, so doubt that will happen. What's the benefit of pushing Claimants causes? Sure they will like me, but I'm at the De Jure Kingdom limit for Ireland, so they won't become my vassals.

I was able to grab Gwent easily enough and I chose it because it's relatively rich, so I think I'm doing ok financially, If I can grab a neighbouring realm, I can usurp a Duchy title and from there it's not too far from the kingdom of wales. It is possible to have more than one kingdom?

One of my nieces who inherited from my brother rebelled at the same time, but I had no trouble putting her down and grabbed the county she revoked from my mother, (who inherited it). Poor girl is pretty dim and at 18 has a long time in jail ahead of her, I was able to revoke another of her counties for myself as well without angering vassals.

I think I made a big mistake of granting too many counties near the start, which limited my finances, but I had to to prevent civil war. Now, each rebellion is giving me a chance to claw them back.

I have another niece with 3 Counties and a Duchie, who doesn't like me much. Maybe it's worth provoking her to rebel, so I can claim another one back.

Also, 9 children, I was damn lucky 7 of them were daughters and I sent most of them far far away. I hope no foreign kingdoms decide they like the look of Ireland - the Holy Romans will have a claim or two and they're gigantic at the moment.

Also, my lineage has been of 'Basque' culture since my original heir. Still have no idea how this happened, maybe I carelessly had the heir educated in Spain, his parents were both Irish and it's given my rulers a permanent -18 diplomacy in Ireland with those who aren't Basque (most of the important people are by now).

JayTee
20-02-2012, 09:14 PM
Other than that I really enjoy this game. I'm currently playing as a relatively minor Duke in Sicily trying to form the Kingdom of Sicily to eventually kick the HRE out of Italy but thanks to a variety of issues like rebellious vassals, a second son who's a complete bitch, and a general lack of money I'm probably going to have to rely on my heir to carry that off.Mission accomplished.

First Duke eventually died, passing all his titles to his firstborn and within days of taking the titles my brother kicked off with a "rebellion". I say "rebellion" as I cunningly gave him a Count title of a backwater county that is still Muslim so consequently he was entirely unable to raise any army. Swiftly kicked the rebellion down and after a few quiet years eventually amassed enough coinage to declare myself King of Sicily. Handed out Duchies to some relatives who now love me, suffered through a Typhoid epidemic (That killed off my troublesome brother), nabbed another county off the infidels allowing my to create the Duchy of Sicily once I've gathered enough coinage. I've invited a low noble to my court who has a claim on one of the nearby Italian independent counties so I'll be grabbing that, just leaving Napoli (That I'm trying to fabricate a claim on) before I have to start tussling with the HRE to expand.

Zephro
21-02-2012, 11:52 AM
I have now firmed up my control in Holland/Belgium, made myself King of Navarre(which is Brittany for some reason) and gotten myself King of Wales which oddly includes a few random counties in England and most of Northern Ireland.

Problem is I've now got 3 Kingdoms but with different succession laws grrrr. So it may all crumble apart.

BenWah
21-02-2012, 02:12 PM
wow 3 kingdoms, that's awesome

Zephro
21-02-2012, 03:08 PM
wow 3 kingdoms, that's awesome

Well one is Wales... the third is Navarre except the king of Navarre instead of owning territory in Spain like he should have was really the Duke of Brittany. So I'm King of a Kingdom which contains 1 dukedom that isn't part of my family.

The whole situation is kind of unstable. On the plus side Ireland and England are Brother in laws or cousins so I'm fairly safe with regards to outside forces.

Oak
22-02-2012, 01:27 AM
Speaking of Navarre-based hijinks, I granted my brother the duchy of Navarre as a pacifying measure and he inexplicably turned it into a republic. It's somehow still a part of the kingdom of Castille in spite of that, yet some random goon will eventually be elected the new doge and I'll lose my claim on it. Crazy ol' world.

karandraz
22-02-2012, 06:54 AM
Want you fine gentlemen to know your antics has inspired me to take a look at the demo, your descriptions of goings on reminds me of "A song of fire and ice" novels!

mike2R
22-02-2012, 12:17 PM
Want you fine gentlemen to know your antics has inspired me to take a look at the demo, your descriptions of goings on reminds me of "A song of fire and ice" novels!

You have no idea... As king of Poland I saw a kinswoman duchess of mine had had a son who was married to another duchess of mine, with their daughter set to inherit both duchies.

My kinswoman was a widow, so I did a bit of wincest hoping to have a son, and I also caused the death of her son when he started plotting against me - threw him in the darkest dungeon I could find, where he soon died.

Then my king started an affair with the second duchess and fathered a bastard on her. I legitimised him, displacing my wife's granddaughter in the succession for that duchy with my own bastard.

My wife's second son married my lover. I had him assassinated (rather more publicly than I had intended).

My wife truly hated me by this point.
[Edited to add, she also fell pregnant at this point. I don't even want to imagine that scene..]
She rebelled. I beat her, imprisoned her, then executed her[yup, still pregnant]. Then I married my lover.

Oh and my dude was a dwarf.

Jockie
22-02-2012, 12:22 PM
You have no idea... As king of Poland I saw a kinswoman duchess of mine had had a son who was married to another duchess of mine, with their daughter set to inherit both duchies.

My kinswoman was a widow, so I did a bit of wincest hoping to have a son, and I also caused the death of her son when he started plotting against me - threw him in the darkest dungeon I could find, where he soon died.

Then my king started an affair with the second duchess and fathered a bastard on her. I legitimised him, displacing my wife's granddaughter in the succession for that duchy with my own bastard.

My wife's second son married my lover. I had him assassinated (rather more publicly than I had intended).

My wife truly hated me by this point and rebelled. I beat her, imprisoned her, then executed her. Then I married my lover.

Oh and my dude was a dwarf.

Paradox should totally have bought the GOT license, rather than Cyanide, CK2 is 10x the game Genesis was and it's a perfect fit.

mike2R
22-02-2012, 12:31 PM
Paradox should totally have bought the GOT license, rather than Cyanide, CK2 is 10x the game Genesis was and it's a perfect fit.

Amen. If I'd been trying to find a developer to make a licensed Game of Thrones strategy game, I'd be on my knees in front of Paradox HQ begging...

I haven't been following it at all, but the Game of Thrones mod thread currently stands at 82 pages.

NathanH
22-02-2012, 01:34 PM
The problem with having Paradox do a Game of Thrones game would be that their forum would get completely clogged up if you add the arguments about lore and canon to the ones about historical accuracy and the incredibly violent arguments about whether a particular pointless village in Westeros should have Serbian or Albanian culture.

Sketch
22-02-2012, 01:38 PM
Just out of interest, how big is it possible to become kingdom-wise in this? After a long while of course.

Zephro
22-02-2012, 01:52 PM
Gah I really need the ability to create new empires. Trying to juggle 3 Kingdoms at once with different succession laws is painfully unstable.

I really want to be able to make the King of Wales my vassal (me as Emperor) rather than trying to hold 3 kingships in 1 person.

duff
22-02-2012, 05:06 PM
As far as incest goes, my best so far is that my eldest son who was my vassal (so I didn't have direct control) married his mother's youngest sister. They had a total of 3 children, two were inbred and died in childhood and the only surviving son was a drooling imbecile. Not what you want for your line of succession.

NathanH
22-02-2012, 05:13 PM
It'd make a nice change; one of the few complaints I have so far is that, outside of premade characters, pretty much every ruler in every realm in my game has been at least competent.

duff
22-02-2012, 05:22 PM
Yeh the negative traits seem to be a little lenient. Slothful for example is -1 to all stats, which isn't nice but it's not exactly gonna totally wreck him either. Inbred is -2 all stats which is fairly nasty. I'd like to see some traits which really lower a specific stat, like 'ugly' -4 to diplomacy. Right now the negative stats are usually -1 or -2, so they only really hurt when you have a couple of negative traits that affect the same stat.

Zephro
22-02-2012, 05:27 PM
Also there's no room for Agincourt. The combat is hopelessly opaque, which I'm fine with same as all Clauswitz games, but it's just a numbers game. You never get the plucky little brit smashing the large force of nobles and sending a kingdom into chaos moment. I've never killed, or had killed anyone important in a battle.

Oh except one king who was hit in the head with a mace and became insensible for the rest of his reign.

Does anyone know how England keeps raising so many god damned troops? During a long war with them, I raised EVERYTHING in Scotland, Wales, Holland and Brittany against them 10,000 troops or so. Then smashed their army of 6000 and chased it around grinding it to dust. But every ~4-6 months they manage to raise another 3000 troops?!?!?!?!?!?! I can only repeatedly raise maybe 400 a year as reinforcements >.<

Jockie
22-02-2012, 05:38 PM
I've found that a lot of the negative traits affect other people's opinions of you, which tends to be the biggest effect, traits like cruel can seriously undermine a leader with their vassels.

duff
22-02-2012, 05:56 PM
Does anyone know how England keeps raising so many god damned troops? During a long war with them, I raised EVERYTHING in Scotland, Wales, Holland and Brittany against them 10,000 troops or so. Then smashed their army of 6000 and chased it around grinding it to dust. But every ~4-6 months they manage to raise another 3000 troops?!?!?!?!?!?! I can only repeatedly raise maybe 400 a year as reinforcements >.<

As if a smattering of small backwater 'Kingdoms' was ever enough to take on mighty England. :P

mike2R
22-02-2012, 06:37 PM
The problem with having Paradox do a Game of Thrones game would be that their forum would get completely clogged up if you add the arguments about lore and canon to the ones about historical accuracy and the incredibly violent arguments about whether a particular pointless village in Westeros should have Serbian or Albanian culture.

Hah. You mean they'd be exactly the same, but far more people would have done the necessary reading to support their argument, and people from the Balkans might manage to be civil to each other :)

R-F
22-02-2012, 07:12 PM
Also there's no room for Agincourt. The combat is hopelessly opaque, which I'm fine with same as all Clauswitz games, but it's just a numbers game. You never get the plucky little brit smashing the large force of nobles and sending a kingdom into chaos moment. I've never killed, or had killed anyone important in a battle.

Oh except one king who was hit in the head with a mace and became insensible for the rest of his reign.

Does anyone know how England keeps raising so many god damned troops? During a long war with them, I raised EVERYTHING in Scotland, Wales, Holland and Brittany against them 10,000 troops or so. Then smashed their army of 6000 and chased it around grinding it to dust. But every ~4-6 months they manage to raise another 3000 troops?!?!?!?!?!?! I can only repeatedly raise maybe 400 a year as reinforcements >.<

Except for capturing kings etc, which I've won more than a few wars (including, in fact, beating the Normans as Harold) by doing. They ALWAYS peace out if you do that.

And, it's probably because you destroyed their forces. If you destroy forces completely, they get a modifier in the provinces that increases reinforcement. As far as can be seen, that is.

JayTee
22-02-2012, 07:38 PM
Does anyone know how England keeps raising so many god damned troops? During a long war with them, I raised EVERYTHING in Scotland, Wales, Holland and Brittany against them 10,000 troops or so. Then smashed their army of 6000 and chased it around grinding it to dust. But every ~4-6 months they manage to raise another 3000 troops?!?!?!?!?!?! I can only repeatedly raise maybe 400 a year as reinforcements >.<Your troops are 'in the field' so consequently they receive reinforcements more slowly, while the enemy is able to completely reconstitute their forces. If you've got a severely depleted sub-unit, you're better off disbanding it and send it home then re-raising it.

That was the answer to a similar question on the official forums at least, and it seems to jive with my observations.

NathanH
22-02-2012, 08:06 PM
One thing that may need doing is making the reinforcement rate slower during wartime a bit, so that the enemy armies don't keep coming back quite so quickly. Fortunately I believe that is fully moddable, so I will have to have a play around with that soon.

Zephro
23-02-2012, 01:05 AM
Yeah I'm with NathanH, my experience of reading History is that after the main army is crushed people become horribly reluctant to join the army...

That kind of guerilla warfare is only really valid from the Napoleonic period.

It's just annoying that I massacre 3000 men yet 3 months later another 3000 volunteer...

R-F
23-02-2012, 09:00 AM
Yeah I'm with NathanH, my experience of reading History is that after the main army is crushed people become horribly reluctant to join the army...

That kind of guerilla warfare is only really valid from the Napoleonic period.

It's just annoying that I massacre 3000 men yet 3 months later another 3000 volunteer...

It's not quite volunteering when your liege lord says, "GET THE FUCK OUT THERE AND KILL PEOPLE". :p

Manny
23-02-2012, 05:24 PM
I need a "Check Nationality of Milkman" button. My Bohemian self and My Bohemian wife and I had three children. The second two were Bohemian. The first was German. I am suspicious.

Jockie
23-02-2012, 05:31 PM
More seriously, I need a search claims button, so I can see which people have what claims I can pursue. You can do it by individual title on the claimants list, but it's a bit fiddly.

Manny
23-02-2012, 05:33 PM
More seriously, I need a search claims button, so I can see which people have what claims I can pursue. You can do it by individual title on the claimants list, but it's a bit fiddly.

Definitely agree. I am finding it hard to figure out what i can usurp.

Zephro
24-02-2012, 12:18 PM
You can go to your ledger, I think screen 12-13 has a list of all your claimants you can pursue for anyone at your court.

So news:
Adam The Just died only to have the throne inherited by his grandson Adam The Cruel, which caused Flanders, Brittany, Wales, The Duke of Orkney, The Duke of Moray and a couple of smaller counts to all erupt in rebellion over the course of a year. To help matters, the Welsh Rebellion was supported by France, Normandy declared war to press their claim on the Scottish throne and England declared war to reclaim their lost counties. Black days my friends.

Adam the Cruel only ruled for 2 years before ending up on the pointy end of an assassin's blade, though by this point he'd brought the Scottish and Welsh vassals back under control and forced through increases in Crown Authority. His reign was marked by many imprisonments and subsequent executions.

We are now in the regency of Robert II which has begun with totally surrendering the English counties back to the King of England but finally resolving the other wars in our favour. However the regent had to allow many white-peace treaties so our vassals are hardly trustworthy...

However King Robert is betrothed to the Duchess of Friesland, Brunswick and Munster.

Labbes
24-02-2012, 02:37 PM
My best and so far most hilarious game so far has been as the Duke of Munster, trying to unite the Kingdom of Ireland.
I was slowly clawing up the small counties to get a claim on the title, while learning how to take the kids of your revolt-loving vassals to prevent them from declaring war. Revolts cost me tons of gold, though, and when I finally had enough gold, I was lacking the piety you need for a Kingdom title.
By that time, I was Duke of Munster and Leinster, so lots of people hated me. When I was really close to the 200 piety, my duke received a blow on the head in some battle against stupid peasants.
This is where the fun starts, though, because my heir is homosexual. Which means that everybody dislikes him even more, and while fighting off revolts that are breaking out, and praying that I will get those 200 piety in time, he dies. Childless.
My new heiress (!) however, is five years old, and also homosexual. By some stroke of luck, she has the "strong" trait, though, so people like her for that. During the regency (of her mother), revolts are fought off etc. and I find out that playing that kid is hilarious. Not only do I get an event which lets me choose whether or not to heed the church's teachings about loving other women (which I, of course, do not follow. The church does not rule over my sexuality!), when Alis is 15, she gets an event that she has fallen in love with a woman at court: The regent and her guardian. Unfortunately, that is also her mother.
Later on, this will lead to an event where she will ask "Do you not accept my love??", but her mother denies and Alis gets "stressed".
Also, thanks to the "gluttonous" trait, she will be called "The Fat" all game long, even though she is a) not fat and b) does the plots for "the Great" and "the Holy". Oh well.
Alis will create the Kingdom of Ireland, unite it and live to the age of 85, surviving all her children and leading Ireland to a new age of glory.
I then stopped playing, because it became rather boring :)

mike2R
24-02-2012, 03:36 PM
Bloody Holy Roman Emperor...

I started a game as a one province count, and found my guy a nice young Countess to marry.

Shortly after she came of age and we married she somehow wound up in the Emperor's prison, whether he had any justification for this I don't know, but he was obviously aware she had no living family and until she had children her title would revert to him if she died.

Damn tyrant had her executed! I just sat staring at the screen... that was my goddamn wife you murderous German thief! How dare you!

IDtenT
24-02-2012, 05:31 PM
Bloody Holy Roman Emperor...

I started a game as a one province count, and found my guy a nice young Countess to marry.

Shortly after she came of age and we married she somehow wound up in the Emperor's prison, whether he had any justification for this I don't know, but he was obviously aware she had no living family and until she had children her title would revert to him if she died.

Damn tyrant had her executed! I just sat staring at the screen... that was my goddamn wife you murderous German thief! How dare you!
With the latest patch the kings and emperors make sure that nothing passes from their realm.

mike2R
24-02-2012, 06:33 PM
With the latest patch the kings and emperors make sure that nothing passes from their realm.

Ok that's pretty cool. Although in this case I was actually an HRE member, so I think it was just the Emperor seeing the opportunity to expand his demesne. Which is also pretty good, I always worry in these games that the AI isn't going to make use of many of the options. This was quite impressive, and completely surprised me.

Ian
24-02-2012, 08:55 PM
Downloaded this to try and get a handle on it and see if I like it.

Not sure where to ask so here's as good as anywhere. I chose the character of being the King as that was marked as easiest when I get a message about one of my holdings/counties/something being under siege. But when I look it seems like two of my vassals are fighting each other.... can that happen? Can they try to bump each other off and gain power in a way that I don't need to worry about or should I be crushing the vassal involved in case he's planning an uprising?

I'm so confused. :(

duff
25-02-2012, 03:34 AM
Downloaded this to try and get a handle on it and see if I like it.

Not sure where to ask so here's as good as anywhere. I chose the character of being the King as that was marked as easiest when I get a message about one of my holdings/counties/something being under siege. But when I look it seems like two of my vassals are fighting each other.... can that happen? Can they try to bump each other off and gain power in a way that I don't need to worry about or should I be crushing the vassal involved in case he's planning an uprising?

I'm so confused. :(

They can do that if Crown Authority is Medium or lower. I wouldn't worry about your vassals fighting, if the attacker wins he will gain the claimed title and that will be an end of it. You only want to concern yourself when one particular man is getting too powerful for your liking. It's usually a good idea to have several smaller vassals than a few strong ones. The downsides to having your vassals at war is that they will (obviously) kill each others levies, so if you need to raise your realm levies the troops sent from those particular vassals may be depleted. To stop them fighting amongst each other you can raise Crown Authority in the laws tab, but beware: you can only do this once in your reign and you will take a reputation hit with every vassal in the realm, it's a sure fire way to start a mass rebellion if you do it at a bad time.

If they are planning a proper uprising against you it will probably be a plot, so you won't know about it until you discover the plot (use your spymaster) or until they issue their demands. Beware that everyone involved in the plot is bound in an alliance should you reject the demands and go to war. This is an amazing game I think you'll like it.

edit: to see exactly what's happening click on the county being attacked, then look under the character portrait of the county leader and there should be a tiny icon that if you hover over will give the details of the war. It took me a while to figure this out, the manual is pretty shit. If your not sure about anything give me a shout on steam.

Oak
26-02-2012, 08:11 AM
I find myself inching forward now, playing in tentative little fifteen-minute bursts, always nervous that my next decision will be the screw-up that ruins this great story I've been telling myself for hours and hours. It's because of their glacial pace, I think, that this is a feeling unique to Paradox's games. Most of my campaigns have ended inconclusively, with me unable to continue on despite wanting very much to know what happens next. Oh, it's all very dramatic.


To stop them fighting amongst each other you can raise Crown Authority in the laws tab, but beware: you can only do this once in your reign and you will take a reputation hit with every vassal in the realm, it's a sure fire way to start a mass rebellion if you do it at a bad time.

Heed this advice, gentlemen.

Drake Sigar
26-02-2012, 09:58 AM
I'm the ruler of Northumbria and have one male son named Uhtred (of course). I didn't see how the king of England could possibly beat William the Bastard's massive invasion force, and with foresight of the events to come I took a wife related to William. Except now it looks like Harold will win after all. Every year he raises a lesser force who are quite happy to throw themselves on William's swords and wear them down to nothing. I think I'll murder my wife and hope noone notices.

cowthief skank
27-02-2012, 08:28 PM
I need a "Check Nationality of Milkman" button. My Bohemian self and My Bohemian wife and I had three children. The second two were Bohemian. The first was German. I am suspicious.

I think that the culture of your children is determined from the person who educates them. I could be mistaken, but in my first game I ended up with some rulers who had a culture which I don't believe was from either the mother or father. Of course, they do say that a wise man knows his father...

Danny252
27-02-2012, 09:28 PM
I think that the culture of your children is determined from the person who educates them. I could be mistaken, but in my first game I ended up with some rulers who had a culture which I don't believe was from either the mother or father. Of course, they do say that a wise man knows his father...

I believe there's an option to try and cover up a bastard child when you/your rampaging teenage son goes and pokes the maid, so I wouldn't put it past the game trying to pass off bastards as real children.

Started my first game as Scotland. Managed to grab a marriage with the daughter of the then-Kaiser of the HRE, and upon realising Norway, England and Normandy were far too busy fighting eachother to give a crap what I was up to, grabbed myself a couple of counties to secure my borders. England soon proceeded to "not exist", and Norway must've taken a beating because he told me to shut up and just take Caithness already.

This is then followed by my half-brother being caught trying to kill off my firstborn son - for some reason, I merely gave him a harsh telling off and let him go grumble in one of my vassal's courts. He's now sat there being an annoying threat to my sons' claim on the throne, but just too far out of reach. This game really has taught me about trying to keep your enemies close... Meanwhile, my (second) wife (the first is dead at game start) popped out a pair of twins, much to my surprise (at about that same time, my useless, permanently jealous, homosexual, misguided warrior of a second-born got himself stabbed in one of the dozen border skirmishes/revolts/sieges/mudfights - so good to have replacements when you need them). As England fell apart under Norman rule, a distant cousin who once owned some far-flung country turned up in my court and snuggled up to me, with my conclusion being that a grateful relative might come in handy later.

I made the mistake of keeping a couple of former English earls in place on my Southern border, and they soon got upset over something or other - once got replaced with my heir, and the other with my rescued cousin from England. I then did something silly, and executed one of the earls - my vassals were not best pleased. Few revolts here and there, plus all my trustworthy brothers and cousins have annoyingly died and been replaced with over-ambitious children and regents. The only man I've been able to trust is my Marshal, Dub, who has valiantly stood by my side through everything, despite his advancing dementia and inability to walk. Of course, his son turned out to be nowhere near as reliable - married him off to the daughter of my rescued cousin, only to have to throw her father in jail for some revolt or other, have him die 2 weeks after she came of age, and get an insta-revolt with Dub the younger leading the army.

They're currently sat in Ipswich wondering whether that was such a wise plan. And probably plotting their revenge. To end on a happy note, though, my now 40-year-old wife has just popped out a second pair of twins - I have grandchildren who are older than they are, for christ's sake...