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R-F
06-02-2012, 04:39 PM
( When was the last time you saw "seas" and "piracy" in the same sentence on a forum?! )

This is one of those things that interests me. Publishers like Ubisoft and EA go to massive lengths to prevent piracy and then release games completely online a few days apart depending on region. Which means, of course, people are more likely to pirate these games that they don't have access to in their region.

As an example, take Kingdoms of Amalur. The game has been cracked already (cracked and released yesterday, I believe) and it's due to be released tomorrow in the US and in FOUR days to the EU. Europe is, therefore, going to have an absolutely massive piracy rate due to this stupid policy.

I expect it has something to do with European brick 'n' mortar shops not being able to stock it until the 10th and online retailers having to hold back release until then, but that's absolutely stupid and if brick and mortar shops aren't capable of keeping with the times, they should just close down.

I just can't comprehend how publishers can bitch and moan about piracy rates and go to ridiculous lengths to stop them (and, in the process, screw over actual customers), but then not do anything about the things that actually cause piracy to happen.

Can anyone explain this batshit reasoning to me?

LaunchJC
06-02-2012, 04:54 PM
I have to admit that region-specific release dates annoy the shit out of me, but if people are pirating it because they have to wait 4 days? Not really an excuse.

I have no idea why it occurs, maybe something to do with correlating with physical retail release dates? I think almost all games come out on fridays here in the UK?

Snargelfargen
06-02-2012, 04:57 PM
How difficult is it to organize a same-day world wide launch anyways? It seems to me that any money on spent making sure games get to stores at the right time would be returned in spades.

I know some some companies hire different distributors for different countries and regions because they have a better network in those places. Perhaps the real issue here is tariffs and waiting times for imported products.

ZIGS
06-02-2012, 04:59 PM
It's funny because piracy CAN'T be prevented. We know that, they know that, everybody knows that. You can't prevent it, you can't avoid it, period. So, the only thing you can do is try to mitigate it's impact as best as possible. So it's funny that publishers try to focus their efforts exactly the wrong way, they try to eliminate piracy (with DRM) which we already established it's impossible and they fail to minimize it's impact (like the silly staggered release dates) which is possible

LaunchJC
06-02-2012, 05:03 PM
It's funny because piracy CAN'T be prevented. We know that, they know that, everybody knows that. You can't prevent it, you can't avoid it, period. So, the only thing you can do is try to mitigate it's impact as best as possible. So it's funny that publishers try to focus their efforts exactly the wrong way, they try to eliminate piracy (with DRM) which we already established it's impossible and they fail to minimize it's impact (like the silly staggered release dates) which is possible

Huh interesting, I was thinking of it from a "why would somebody pirate a game just because the dates are different" perspective, hadn't considered the possible money to be made from people who are already more piracy inclined, guess it all comes back to it being a service issue.

Kodeen
06-02-2012, 05:05 PM
I have to admit that region-specific release dates annoy the shit out of me, but if people are pirating it because they have to wait 4 days? Not really an excuse.

Indeed. I just picture someone sitting at their chair, manically twitching to the point of developing scoliosis while blinking asymmetrically and foaming at the mouth because he has to wait four whole days to play a videogame. Poor guy.

ZIGS
06-02-2012, 05:20 PM
Indeed. I just picture someone sitting at their chair, manically twitching to the point of developing scoliosis while blinking asymmetrically and foaming at the mouth because he has to wait four whole days to play a videogame. Poor guy.

That's the thing, we don't have to wait :)

Grizzly
06-02-2012, 06:45 PM
I think the release date thing is especially important when it comes to TV shows. WHy would you want to wait for Game of Thrones a week after half the connected world has already seen it? Download it, watch it right now, and join the discussion!

It makes less sense for games, which do not air every week.

deano2099
06-02-2012, 06:51 PM
Indeed. I just picture someone sitting at their chair, manically twitching to the point of developing scoliosis while blinking asymmetrically and foaming at the mouth because he has to wait four whole days to play a videogame. Poor guy.

Kind of depends on the game. I can see this is going to hit Mass Effect 3 very badly as 4 days on an internet full of spoilers is a long time.

Phinor
06-02-2012, 06:52 PM
Ahh, one of my favourite topics. Just because someone doesn't understand why others can't wait four extra days doesn't mean it isn't happening. There are two ways of fixing that - DRM or releasing simultaneously. There are some companies that have actually chosen the latter. Games like Call of Duty series and Shogun 2 come to mind as examples. These days the only reason to NOT release worldwide (or at least wider than North America only) with a single date is because some publishers simply haven't thought about changing that or see no benefit to changing it. It's not a restriction with the retail structure in Europe or anything, games are put on shelves on release day whether it's Tuesday or Friday. Actually stores would love to sell games as soon as they get them in stock instead of waiting four-five extra days or even a week in some cases. Brick and mortars are not to be blamed on this one, it's entirely the publishers fault.

With two mouse clicks I could have Amalur on my computer in less than 30 minutes. But thanks to EA and their policy from thirty years ago, I'm waiting five more days until my bought copy finally arrives with all the DRM that didn't help in the first place attached to it. I'm pretty sure most people see something wrong with that picture.

R-F
06-02-2012, 07:24 PM
Indeed. I just picture someone sitting at their chair, manically twitching to the point of developing scoliosis while blinking asymmetrically and foaming at the mouth because he has to wait four whole days to play a videogame. Poor guy.

American, huh? ;p

Kodeen
06-02-2012, 07:37 PM
I'm not saying it's not a valid complaint, it certainly is. It's just a poor excuse to pirate the game.

Rii
06-02-2012, 07:53 PM
Four days is definitely in 'who gives a shit?' territory.

Unaco
06-02-2012, 08:00 PM
I'm British, and I think four days (a week even) is in the "who gives a shit?" territory. It's a lousy excuse to pirate a game. Devs like to stagger their releases, so, if there are problems at release, the global audience isn't inundating them all at the same time, so they can stagger their support systems and servers and whatever else, and maybe give some of their staff a few days off.

DeekyFun
06-02-2012, 08:02 PM
Is there really no logistical or business decision behind staggered released dates, other than 'cause it's always been that way'? That seems a bizarre reason to keep doing it, and I'd have thought that companies would want their software out for purchasing as soon as possible. They even seem keen to sacrifice development time in order to rush stuff out, in some cases. Surely it's not as simple as being stuck in their ways? Not that I can suggest anything else.

Keep
06-02-2012, 08:05 PM
Lousy excuse for pirating, but that's not the point: there are enough people that are a) inclined to piracy, and b) impatient, that companies need to tackle that problem. It's no good their sniffing their noses at the habit, because it's their businesses getting kicked by it.

Rii
06-02-2012, 08:24 PM
Lousy excuse for pirating, but that's not the point: there are enough people that are a) inclined to piracy, and b) impatient, that companies need to tackle that problem. It's no good their sniffing their noses at the habit, because it's their businesses getting kicked by it.

But ... that means the terrorists win.

No, the real answer is more drone strikes.

Kodeen
06-02-2012, 08:25 PM
Lousy excuse for pirating, but that's not the point: there are enough people that are a) inclined to piracy, and b) impatient

For the people who do pirate the game because of this, I wonder about the ratio of people who are stronger in attribute A compared to people who are stronger in attribute B. Group B could possibly generate more sales in a simultaneous release, but Group A would likely have found a different excuse, "Retail versions require Origin ARG*" or something similar.

*I don't know if that's actually the case, I think I read it somewhere but can't find anything definitive.

Kadayi
06-02-2012, 08:50 PM
I have no idea why it occurs, maybe something to do with correlating with physical retail release dates? I think almost all games come out on fridays here in the UK?

Everything physical media wise comes through massive distribution Centres (absolutely humongous warehouses out in the middle of nowhere) and things like DVDs/Games/Music etc are filtered out through them, even before they reach retailers. Unless there's a massive incentive to distribute something early and break traditional schedules generally things will carry on as they presently do.



How difficult is it to organize a same-day world wide launch anyways? It seems to me that any money on spent making sure games get to stores at the right time would be returned in spades.

It's not difficult, but financially it has to be worth doing it. Unless game is going to sell crazy units like Starcraft 2 or MW3 then it's a whole lot of extra expenditure corralling the wholesale distributors to ship earlier and someones got to eat that cost. It's not EA drive around in a van handing over boxes of games themselves to retailers. Other parties do the distribution, and if you want special attention then it's going to cost you.


Lousy excuse for pirating, but that's not the point: there are enough people that are a) inclined to piracy, and b) impatient, that companies need to tackle that problem. It's no good their sniffing their noses at the habit, because it's their businesses getting kicked by it.

See above. It's not a case of sniffing about it, it's a case of the wholesale distributors dictate what day of the week things get distributed. They're dealing with goods for all sort of retailers.
Swapping all game releases so they are available on a Tuesday means shifting someone elses goods (washing machines or some such) so they are available on a Friday. There's whole realms of monumental economics to something like that.

archonsod
06-02-2012, 09:14 PM
With a staggered release the game is cracked and playable for free before it's launched elsewhere, which means your legitimate customers who have actually paid for the game via pre-order, or are willing to pay at launch, are getting worse service than the people who are ripping you off.
I fail to see why piracy needs an excuse in this case. Surely it's the publishers who should be justifying their comparatively shoddy service rather than the pirates?


Everything physical media wise comes through massive distribution Centres (absolutely humongous warehouses out in the middle of nowhere) and things like DVDs/Games/Music etc are filtered out through them, even before they reach retailers. Unless there's a massive incentive to distribute something early and break traditional schedules generally things will carry on as they presently do.

Yup, but they make no actual difference to anything. If you want a CD pressed at 9am and on the shelves by 12 you'll have a distributor who can do it, providing you're willing to pay for it of course. Distribution hasn't been an issue since we started putting the internal combustion engine into ships rather than relying on the tradewinds.
The reason is simply that historically new media releases in Europe have always happened on a Friday to take advantage of the weekend while in the US they happen on a Tuesday for reasons nobody seems to know. Publishers stick to this primarily because fuck you. And that's before you consider the absolute idiocy of even worrying about distribution when the game is a) available online and b) impossible to actually install/play if you're not online.

Kadayi
06-02-2012, 10:19 PM
If you want a CD pressed at 9am and on the shelves by 12 you'll have a distributor who can do it, providing you're willing to pay for it of course.

Turnaround is never that quick. At best you're looking at 24 - 48 hours given actual transportation, and regional distribution.

Also I find it hilarious that people talk about game piracy as service, as if somehow that you can get a game before release is somehow the publishers fault. If in the case of KofL it's been released before it's even out the factory door, that's hardly the publishers fault, more the disc manufacturers lax security.

Plain truth of the matter is, if you support the industry then you buy your game legitimately, so the developers/publishers can continue to fund new projects. Pirate the games and they get nothing.

archonsod
06-02-2012, 11:01 PM
Turnaround is never that quick. At best you're looking at 24 - 48 hours given actual transportation, and regional distribution.

Transportation is largely minimised these days thanks to networking; most pro distributors can ship product in four hours these days thanks to the wonders of subcontracting.


Also I find it hilarious that people talk about game piracy as service, as if somehow that you can get a game before release is somehow the publishers fault.

Erm, when the game is released in one region before another I'd say that was the publishers fault.


Plain truth of the matter is, if you support the industry then you buy your game legitimately, so the developers/publishers can continue to fund new projects. Pirate the games and they get nothing.

Unless of course you've pre-ordered the game, pre-loaded the game and then decided to crack it rather than wait an arbitrary number of days until the publisher decides foreigners can play. Or you've pre-ordered and decided to download a pirated version for the same thing. All of which assumes you accept the argument that developers are poor starving types who are desperate for your munnies in the first place.

DeekyFun
06-02-2012, 11:43 PM
I don't really see why it matters, really. If the game comes out where I am a bit later on, I'll play it then and enjoy it just as much as I would have if I had got it earlier. It's not as if there aren't lots and lots of other games to play in the increasingly smaller interim.

On the other side, if it did bother me, isn't the usual form of protest over a company's policy supposed to be not to purchase (and not to play, in this case) at all?

Kadayi
06-02-2012, 11:49 PM
Transportation is largely minimised these days thanks to networking; most pro distributors can ship product in four hours these days thanks to the wonders of subcontracting.

BS. The whole point about going through limited channels is to minimize security breaches as well as ensure quality. The more channels you go through the more you increase the likelihood of problems.


Erm, when the game is released in one region before another I'd say that was the publishers fault.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it any more true.


Unless of course you've pre-ordered the game, pre-loaded the game and then decided to crack it rather than wait an arbitrary number of days until the publisher decides foreigners can play. Or you've pre-ordered and decided to download a pirated version for the same thing. All of which assumes you accept the argument that developers are poor starving types who are desperate for your munnies in the first place.

Any more one legged Indians you want to pull out of the bag there as some sort of piracy defense there?

I mean tbh really whats so absolutely essential about getting a game at the same time when it comes out in the US? Even with Multi-player it's never really a factor because unless you really love playing with crazy lag at the end of the day. Despite all the wailing and gnashing of teeth a three day delay is not the end of the world. The truth of the matter is it comes down to little more than childish 'want'.

The reality is, it would be likely far easier for the US to switch over to Fridays from Tuesdays Vs Europe with all of its myriad distributors, however there's zero incentive for the US to do so, as their no gain in it for them.

soldant
07-02-2012, 01:27 AM
On the other side, if it did bother me, isn't the usual form of protest over a company's policy supposed to be not to purchase (and not to play, in this case) at all?
Gaming boycotts don't work, for two reasons. Firstly, nobody cares. Secondly, they never actually boycott and buy the game anyway. Or the pirate it and the developer takes it as a reason to implement further DRM.


Unless of course you've pre-ordered the game, pre-loaded the game and then decided to crack it rather than wait an arbitrary number of days until the publisher decides foreigners can play. Or you've pre-ordered and decided to download a pirated version for the same thing. All of which assumes you accept the argument that developers are poor starving types who are desperate for your munnies in the first place.
Ignoring the piracy part of this section, I thought the biggest benefit of Steam was digital distribution. Digital distribution brings a few cool features, like not having to ship a physical product to get it into people's hands. If you can get people preloading worldwide, there's no valid reason not to do a worldwide release date. You don't have to worry about physical products arriving on time. There's no manufacturing turnaround. The data streams to the content servers and away you go.

Holding back the release date purely because of brick and mortar stores is silly. It's not like the game is printed a day or two before the due date overseas. Hell here in Australia they regularly break the street date, sometimes by a couple of days.

deano2099
07-02-2012, 01:36 AM
Unless there's a massive incentive to distribute something early and break traditional schedules generally things will carry on as they presently do.

An incentive like mass piracy in the territories where you release later?


Also I find it hilarious that people talk about game piracy as service, as if somehow that you can get a game before release is somehow the publishers fault. If in the case of KofL it's been released before it's even out the factory door, that's hardly the publishers fault, more the disc manufacturers lax security.

Plain truth of the matter is, if you support the industry then you buy your game legitimately, so the developers/publishers can continue to fund new projects. Pirate the games and they get nothing.

And the plain truth of the matter is, if you support the disc duplication industry, you use the slightly more expensive pressing plant with better security.

For those saying it's a "poor excuse for piracy", out of interest, what do you think a good excuse for piracy is?

There's this bizarre attitude from anti-piracy campaigners that seems to think "I'm pirating it because I want to play it early" means "it's right for me to pirate it because I want to play it early". Likewise "I'm pirating it as there's no demo" somehow becomes "it's okay for me to pirate it because there's no demo".

There's a difference between a reason and a justification. If I throttle a cat and someone says "why?" and I say "its miaowing was annoying me" I'm not saying it's okay to throttle the cat. You just asked why and I'm telling you.

There's this notion that pirates are some delusional crazy people constantly inventing fictional realities in order to make themselves feel okay about pirating things. Not the case. They just don't care.

Which brings me to the point: a game coming out 4 days later isn't a valid justification for piracy, but it's clearly the reason a lot of people do it. Just look at torrent numbers for high profile games on the big sites right after a simultaneous release compared to a staggered one. Piracy is not okay, but it's better to think about addressing the causes than burrowing our heads in the sand.

Or put another way: even if the number of pirates who only do it because of the release gap is a small percentage, I'll bet anything it's higher than the number of pirates put off by DRM.

archonsod
07-02-2012, 06:57 AM
I mean tbh really whats so absolutely essential about getting a game at the same time when it comes out in the US?

Who said anything about it being essential? The simple fact is, once it's out in the US it's out here. Except I don't have to pay for it here. Now, since I couldn't give two flying fucks whether developers get paid or not, it's not up to me to justify using the free service. It's up to the guys asking for money to justify why I should give them my money in the first place. The funny thing is, usually the pirates are doing a much better job of convincing me I should pay them - and then not even asking for any money.


The reality is, it would be likely far easier for the US to switch over to Fridays from Tuesdays Vs Europe with all of its myriad distributors, however there's zero incentive for the US to do so, as their no gain in it for them.
Why does it have to switch in the first place? Is there some magical assgoblin that attacks shipping such that we can only ship things on Tuesdays and Fridays, and it's impossible to do so on say Wednesdays?

Mihkel
07-02-2012, 07:19 AM
I pirated it and gotta say I'm really enjoying it. Definitely a buy for me at some point, do recommend.

On topic: I also think these release delays are unreasonable, considering a bunch of publishers can manage a simultaneos release anyways so letting people wait for their stuff only agitates them further. Also some people just cannot wait. For me 10-12 hour shifts start today and last about a week or so I can only get little to no gaming done in the meanwhile.

DeekyFun
07-02-2012, 09:16 AM
Gaming boycotts don't work, for two reasons. Firstly, nobody cares. Secondly, they never actually boycott and buy the game anyway. Or the pirate it and the developer takes it as a reason to implement further DRM.


Possibly the reason nobody cares might be linked in some way with your second point. It reminds me of the way some people I know get really angry about companies like Tesco taking over the high street, saying they'll never shop there, and then shopping there anyway being it's more convenient. Then they complain again. A message doesn't really work if it's never delivered.

Steam is probably a good way of doing it and, global distribution sounds like it would make a lot of people happy, but fundamentally, it's up to the publishers (I think?), and they don't owe people an excuse or reason behind their business decisions. There's a fair bit of talk about a 'no valid reason' or 'no excuse' for the dates they choose to set, but there doesn't need to be one because they don't answer to us. They are run and managed entirely to try and turn around a profit, and presumably there are reasons based on that which means we get the staggered releases as they are now. Maybe it is an old system struggling to keep up with newer possibilities, but I'm not so sure.

Lobotomist
07-02-2012, 10:11 AM
Indeed. I just picture someone sitting at their chair, manically twitching to the point of developing scoliosis while blinking asymmetrically and foaming at the mouth because he has to wait four whole days to play a videogame. Poor guy.

I know few people that do just that. They will pirate the game just to play it few days before the launch.

Not meaning they will not buy it also. But they will do anything just to have it before everyone else.


Scene release before actual game launch = bummer for the poor devs :(


Conclusion - do not do staggered release.

When will EA learn ?

Kadayi
07-02-2012, 07:22 PM
Now, since I couldn't give two flying fucks whether developers get paid or not, it's not up to me to justify using the free service. It's up to the guys asking for money to justify why I should give them my money in the first place. The funny thing is, usually the pirates are doing a much better job of convincing me I should pay them - and then not even asking for any money.

So it's not about paying them for the pizza? It's all about paying them for how long it takes to arrive? Please....also you're on a gaming forum. The idea that suddenly you don't give a stuff about developers in any way shape or form as long as 'I can get my game on' seems slightly incredulous tbh. Who exactly are you hoping to convince?

@deano2099

The big games will generally have a global release, but with the smaller titles it's just not worth the extra financial effort. Maybe in a few years things will change, but given that high street retail is becoming less of a force there's even less incentive for change.

archonsod
07-02-2012, 08:31 PM
So it's not about paying them for the pizza? It's all about paying them for how long it takes to arrive?

Are you illiterate, or do you just have a problem understanding written English? I buy and play games because I like playing the games; I don't actually care who makes them. Just like I buy the clothes I like without ever bothering to find out whether they're produced by kids in a sweatshop in China or some frumpy German seamstress. Cuz I base my purchasing decisions on what I'm actually purchasing, rather than investing in the distribution chain or whatever weird logic you happen to base yours on.
So no, it's nothing to do with the time it takes to arrive. If I want a game, then I want a game. I don't know if it's coded by some star codemonkey in New York or a press-ganged hobo in Bangalore, nor do I particularly give a shit. All I'm interested in is playing the game, so my money is going to go to whoever can provide this service with the minimum of fuss, effort or inconvenience on my behalf.
And amazingly enough, since gaming isn't my sole hobby the money I could use to buy games is also money I could use to buy beer and similar goodies. And generally speaking, my pub landlord has more sense than to make me wait four days for a pint for good reason.


Please....also you're on a gaming forum.

And that makes a difference why precisely? The only reason I know who developed, or at least publishes, half the games I like playing is because they force me to stare at their logo every time the game loads.

Kadayi
07-02-2012, 08:35 PM
-Snip-

I suppose you just buy books that are cheap as well? Because they're cheap yes?

Amusing as it is you for to attempt to boil games down to little more than interchangeable commodities I'm not convinced that holds up in practice.

Also with 450 titles on your steam account I'm not entirely convinced you're the jolly roger devil may care game pirate you paint yourself out to be either.

Feel free to expound at length about how games are meaningless to you further though, and all you care about is the pizza turning up within 15 minutes, not the make or recipe, just that it's pizza.

Nalano
07-02-2012, 09:30 PM
Amusing as it is you for to attempt to boil games down to little more than interchangeable commodities I'm not convinced that holds up in practice.

For you, maybe. But while I can appreciate the individual style of a particular restaurant, I have plenty of options.


Also with 450 titles on your steam account I'm not entirely convinced you're the jolly roger devil may care game pirate you paint yourself out to be either.

Because 450 games is all the games, right? Hell, he himself said he likes playing games.

I have 160 games on Steam and a few dozen from other online sources. I have about that many on a series of spindles currently collecting dust behind some books. I've also lost around that much due to deterioration of the original media and lack of backups, and I've re-purchased some games two or three times. That said, I can't even begin to count how many I've pirated, but if they were physical media, I'd probably look like the Hamburglar with a santa bag.

archonsod
07-02-2012, 11:08 PM
I suppose you just buy books that are cheap as well? Because they're cheap yes?

I have been known to, but I'm an omnivorous reader anyway so it makes little difference.


Amusing as it is you for to attempt to boil games down to little more than interchangeable commodities I'm not convinced that holds up in practice.

It's not the game that's interchangeable, it's the method of obtaining it. If I gave a shit about the developers I'd have bought Spiderweb's games direct from Jeff, since I don't I'm more than happy to go via Steam and Gamersgate because they're cheaper.
You can apply the same to piracy. If it's a choice between waiting four days for the game to appear on digital or retail distributors or downloading the game now from a warez site I fail to see any good reason not to download it. The developer gets no money? Fuck them, they should have signed up to a competent publisher.


Also with 450 titles on your steam account I'm not entirely convinced you're the jolly roger devil may care game pirate you paint yourself out to be either.

Steam doesn't suffer from regional releasing, at least not if you've a decent knowledge of VPN and proxies.

Kadayi
07-02-2012, 11:21 PM
It's not the game that's interchangeable, it's the method of obtaining it. If I gave a shit about the developers I'd have bought Spiderweb's games direct from Jeff, since I don't I'm more than happy to go via Steam and Gamersgate because they're cheaper.

Well surely if all you give a shit about is cheap, then all your games would be pirated no? Clearly given that you've 450 games on your Steam account I'd say simply being cheap isn't what motivates you solely as to buying games regardless of your protestations to the contrary.


For you, maybe. But while I can appreciate the individual style of a particular restaurant, I have plenty of options.

Weirdly enough you can't get Bethesdas version of Mass Effect, Vs Biowares.

Nalano
07-02-2012, 11:48 PM
Weirdly enough you can't get Bethesdas version of Mass Effect, Vs Biowares.

Neither Bethesda nor Bioware are the sole purveyors of all RPGs, nor am I required to play their games. One may favor thin crust, and one may favor thick crust, but not only aren't they the arbiters of pizza, but I don't need pizza at all.

Hell, this is like trying to explain to somebody who only eats at Olive Garden that there's a country out there called Italy.

Kadayi
07-02-2012, 11:58 PM
Neither Bethesda nor Bioware are the sole purveyors of all RPGs, nor am I required to play their games. One may favor thin crust, and one may favor thick crust, but not only aren't they the arbiters of pizza, but I don't need pizza at all.

But that's generalizing, which simply doesn't suit a medium like games, in the same way that it doesn't suit other cultural narrative mediums like Film, or Television or books. Sure if all you ever play is puzzle games like Tetris or strategy games like Chess, sure you've some options in whom you can purchase from, but there's not a Michael Bay version of Black swan or a Darren Aronofsky version of Transformers. If you want to see Black Swan there's one version available, the Aronofsky version.

Kandon Arc
08-02-2012, 12:21 AM
But that's generalizing, which simply doesn't suit a medium like games, in the same way that it doesn't suit other cultural narrative mediums like Film, or Television or books. Sure if all you ever play is puzzle games like Tetris or strategy games like Chess, sure you've some options in whom you can purchase from, but there's not a Michael Bay version of Black swan or a Darren Aronofsky version of Transformers. If you want to see Black Swan there's one version available, the Aronofsky version.

I'm not really sure what you're trying to convince us of here. That copyright creates a monopoly so publishers can do whatever they like and we shouldn't complain?

Nalano
08-02-2012, 02:28 AM
I'm not really sure what you're trying to convince us of here. That copyright creates a monopoly so publishers can do whatever they like and we shouldn't complain?

I think what he's trying to say is that because Friends isn't Seinfeld, nobody has a choice of networks as just because you might like one you may not like the other.

To that I say, yes, every creative work is nominally unique. Just not unique enough for me to abide by their shit.

Kadayi
08-02-2012, 01:12 PM
To that I say, yes, every creative work is nominally unique. Just not unique enough for me to abide by their shit.

/cue ranting about capitalism with no viable solution (again)

Nalano
08-02-2012, 08:10 PM
/cue ranting about capitalism with no viable solution (again)

If you have nothing constructive to say, you're free to go away.

Kadayi
08-02-2012, 09:06 PM
If you have nothing constructive to say, you're free to go away.

Nah, I'm on board for when you finally reveal your financial master plan.

Nalano
08-02-2012, 10:14 PM
Nah, I'm on board for when you finally reveal your financial master plan.

Are you going to talk about the subject at hand or are you going to keep bothering me?

archonsod
08-02-2012, 10:19 PM
Well surely if all you give a shit about is cheap, then all your games would be pirated no?

Yes, which is why I said better service and not solely "lower price". Funnily enough service incorporates many things; I might for example be happy to pay more money for a game if they provide a free blowjob with the purchase, or go for the more expensive option if the cheaper option requires castrating myself with a spoon.


I think what he's trying to say is that because Friends isn't Seinfeld, nobody has a choice of networks as just because you might like one you may not like the other.

Yeah. It's like he's never heard of syndication.

Nalano
08-02-2012, 10:38 PM
or go for the more expensive option if the cheaper option requires castrating myself with a spoon.

The humor of piracy is that there are clearly ways to be more convenient than piracy. Piracy requires a few things: A broadband connection and a BitTorrent client. A tracker with plenty of seeds. A cracked executable or a serial keygen, and an antivirus program to get rid of the inevitable trojan buried within.

Valve allows you to download faster than filesharing and has better uptime than BitTorrent trackers, updates automatically and doesn't put a trojan on your computer. Conversely, the rootkit DRM and always-on DRM of Sony and Ubisoft, respectively, are worse than a trojan on your computer, to say nothing of the conveniences pirated copies have over them that has nothing to do with cost: Unlimited installs, ability to back up the program, etc.

Mihkel
08-02-2012, 11:09 PM
and an antivirus program to get rid of the inevitable trojan buried within.

To be honest you gotta be a shit pirate to get trojans when you're downloading games.

Nalano
08-02-2012, 11:31 PM
To be honest you gotta be a shit pirate to get trojans when you're downloading games.

Pretty much every keygen has one. Not like they're hard to get rid of, at any rate.

soldant
09-02-2012, 01:25 AM
Pretty much every keygen has one. Not like they're hard to get rid of, at any rate.
Um, I hope you're not basing that on the heuristics scanning of a virus scanner... because that's not even remotely accurate.

Nalano
09-02-2012, 01:59 AM
Um, I hope you're not basing that on the heuristics scanning of a virus scanner... because that's not even remotely accurate.

Do I care? I turn it off, run it, turn it on, delete it.

soldant
09-02-2012, 04:10 AM
Do I care? I turn it off, run it, turn it on, delete it.
I'm just pointing out that the "scene produced" keygens wouldn't contain any sort of malicious code (unless modified afterwards, but I guess they're not "scene" in that case), they're only flagged as such due to heuristics scanning techniques considering them to have "behaviour" that might be malicious.

archonsod
09-02-2012, 09:09 PM
Valve allows you to download faster than filesharing

They don't. I've yet to see Steam manage more than 1.2Mb/s, and far more usual is 300k/s or less. This is on a 30Mb internet connection - even ftp would be faster than Valve manage. Although Gamersgate and Impulse never have that problem (nor does Direct2Drive or whatever they call themselves these days). The only convenience Steam really offers is that it downloads the files directly rather than having you download the installation files and then having to install the game - quite useful when your HDD space is limited.


Conversely, the rootkit DRM and always-on DRM of Sony and Ubisoft, respectively, are worse than a trojan on your computer

I like U-Play, and I hardly see how Securom can classify as a rootkit, unless of course the graphic drivers, soundcard drivers and pretty much everything else that needs to interface with the Windows HAL is also a rootkit. As would be the Microsoft generic drivers come to that. Good job Windows is only my secondary OS.

Nalano
09-02-2012, 09:25 PM
They don't. I've yet to see Steam manage more than 1.2Mb/s, and far more usual is 300k/s or less.

I'm downloading Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning right now at 1.8mb/s (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1h7OXlPeMQI). I think it might just be your connection.