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Kadayi
11-06-2011, 03:00 AM
Hate with a passion a game/developer/Publisher/Bobby Kotick or an underlying trend in the world of gaming at large (such as microtransactions or pre-order bonuses)?

Why not pour all your raw hate into this one thread so we can use it to generate enough negative energy to replace fossil fuels (or blot out the sun if you are so inclined), and keep the rest of the forums raw hate free?

outoffeelinsobad
11-06-2011, 03:06 AM
Dead Space. Eff that game.

ColOfNature
11-06-2011, 03:58 AM
Negativity. Grrr. Does my head in.

Led Zeppelin
11-06-2011, 07:06 AM
I hate Activision,DLC,Mass Effect and DRM

WitchfinderG
11-06-2011, 07:32 AM
fuck working on saturdays.. fuck waking up w/ a hangover 8am on ze saturday having to go to work

Rakysh
11-06-2011, 07:33 AM
Hate threads.

BobsLawnService
11-06-2011, 08:40 AM
Two trends in FPS games that I can't stand :

1. Two weapon limits - Why the hell would a developer want to limit the tactical options available to a player? It just makes no sense as a gameplay mechanic.
2. The combination of cover systems and regenerating health. It removes all flow from a game and removes all incentive not to be hit. Losing half your health during a fight means nothing if health is an infinite resource. All you need to do is wait for two minutes doing nothing which is just enforced boredom.

tomeoftom
11-06-2011, 09:06 AM
This is actually a great idea. Everyone, please be a dick here and nowhere else.

Edit: Actually, can we just sticky this and have it work its magic all the time?

BobsLawnService
11-06-2011, 09:10 AM
This is actually a great idea. Everyone, please be a dick here and nowhere else.

Edit: Actually, can we just sticky this and have it work its magic all the time?

Erm, what is wrong with constructive criticism and discussion?

Zorganist
11-06-2011, 09:22 AM
2. The combination of cover systems and regenerating health. It removes all flow from a game and removes all incentive not to be hit. Losing half your health during a fight means nothing if health is an infinite resource. All you need to do is wait for two minutes doing nothing which is just enforced boredom.

I second this, especially in third-person shooters, since I'd quite like my firefirghts to consist of more than sitting behind a convenient waist-high obstacle for five minutes, occasionally shooting someone. Cover-based systems also have a nasty habit of hijacking art direction and level design to accomodate appropriate cover (Like the randomly-placed alien cocoons in Mass Effect, or everyhting being blow up or ruined in just about every third-person shooter ever).

And if you really did sit behind a rock after you've just been shot, you wouldn't heal, you'd just bleed to death.

Icarus
11-06-2011, 09:34 AM
Games for Windows Live.
The increasing trend towards linearity and enforced pacing in FPS games. (Of which Homefront and Medal of HonoUr are the most egregious, and DNF being the latest example)
System Shock and Syndicate still not being on GoG.
MechWarrior 4.
Sony.
Bobby Kotick.
Bobby Kotick's hair.
Bobby Kotick's perpetual smugness.
HM Revenue and Customs.
The way that game creators very carefully dole out fun in small doses as a reward for getting through the tedious grind portions of the game. The idea that the whole game should be fun seems to have escaped a lot of AAA developers, and fled to smaller indie studios.
The fact that EA commissioned more Battlefield nonsense from DICE instead of Mirror's Edge 2.
Staggered international release dates for digital releases. If a game is out, it should be OUT.
Politicians.
The EU.
Self-righteous meddling people. (see 'Politicians' and 'The EU')

StrangLove
11-06-2011, 09:56 AM
Scooter kids.

Bilbo1981
11-06-2011, 10:09 AM
I hate World of Warcraft and all MMORPGs in a similar vein. The reason for this being that is is the wrong way for development to go in what is potentially the greatest game genre. Ultima Online had it right but they followed the everquest (safe) route and it is like taking a step backwards, how we are stuck in Limbo due to the popularity of WoW as everyone is just making a copy.

I hate DRM and the way all the major games companies seem to want to punish legit pc gamers by adding it on. I also hate Lionhead who had/has one of the most technically brilliant teams on the planet yet they sold their souls to Microsoft to make console crap, I liked the way Black and White was going they only make fable now, PANTS!

Finally I hate things like the "PC Gaming alliance" and all these other nonsence ideas which don't seem to do bugger all apart from get peoples attention to cries of "PC Gaming is Dying!"

Ravenger
11-06-2011, 10:17 AM
I hate DRM, especially limited activations or constant internet required.
I really, really, really, hate Facebook and Twitter. I do not want Facebook and twitter integration in the stuff I use. I don't want to have to 'like' something on facebook to enter a competition or find out more info.
I hate the excessive streamlining and bad consolisation of games, especially franchises that were originally PC games and worked fine before they decided to stuff every interaction on one button, put huge fonts in the UI, optimise the gameplay for a 360 controller rather than a keyboard and mouse, and remove basic PC features like in-game control remapping, graphic options and dedicated servers for multiplayer.

Kadayi
11-06-2011, 10:32 AM
Erm, what is wrong with constructive criticism and discussion?

I'm not on about constructive criticism Bob (something I'll all in favour of that). I'm on about hate.

8-bit
11-06-2011, 11:03 AM
people who think angry birds is a good videogame or even a possible game of the year candidate, I am all for respecting others opinions but you have to draw the line somewhere.

four hour first person shooters, either give me a proper campaign or don't bother doing it at all.

the way console gamers and some devs don't seem to understand why pc gamers complain about console ports for the pc. its not because we are an elitist pc master race (we are but thats not the point), its because a game designed for consoles is made with the idea that you will be sitting several feet away but when we try to play them on a pc it hurts our eyes. also navigating menus with the arrow buttons on a keyboard is like torture knowing you have a mouse right next to you (I am looking at you witcher 2). we don't complain because we want a better experience, we complain because we want the same experience and all too often we don't get it.

the way this forum keeps logging me out every ten minutes.

soldant
11-06-2011, 11:11 AM
I really, really, really, hate Facebook and Twitter. I do not want Facebook and twitter integration in the stuff I use. I don't want to have to 'like' something on facebook to enter a competition or find out more info.
So do I. I ended up getting dragooned into getting a Facebook account because otherwise I missed out on pretty much every social function. Since then it's become an absolute nightmare that I rarely check. Load of absolute nonsense.

I also hate zero-day DLC, the insistance that a division must exist between consoles and PCs (come on devs, put in the extra effort, don't blame one platform for all your problems), cold showers, socks that stretch and don't fit properly, rats, my unstable ADSL2+ connection, random hardware/software issues that can't be traced, completely useless error messages like "An error has occurred", and patients, especially the drunk kind.

8-bit
11-06-2011, 11:22 AM
So do I. I ended up getting dragooned into getting a Facebook account because otherwise I missed out on pretty much every social function. Since then it's become an absolute nightmare that I rarely check. Load of absolute nonsense.

I had a facebook page once, it just kind of sat there for a week, I poked it with a stick a few times to see if it would do anything but I just couldn't figure it out.


completely useless error messages like "An error has occurred", and patients, especially the drunk kind.

I just got an image in my head of a drunken I.T student wandering into a hospital, yelling out "an error has occurred" and then falling over. :D

thegooseking
11-06-2011, 11:31 AM
I hate the trend of describing things as "dumbed down" when... well, read my sig.

It's overused, and 90% of the time it's misused. People who aren't smart enough to tell the difference between well-designed challenge and challenging design flaw have no business talking about "dumbing down".

Kadayi
11-06-2011, 11:35 AM
/rant on

I really hate the narrow minded short sighted sons of bitches at Microsoft whom when they were coming up with the specification for the 360, decided that the best course of action in order to garner larger initial sales (over longevity as the system) was to ship a base model that didn't have a hard drive (a chain is only as strong as it's weakest link) as well forfeiting the opportunity go over to HD-DVD as a format standard at a time when games were already hitting DVD limits (and to cover up this deficiency they put on hefty licencing penalties to dissuade publishers/developers from releasing multi-disc games). In doing so they screwed over Developers, publishers and gamers and all because they wanted to make a big initial sales splash a good year before the PS3 was even due to come out.

Albeit in a way this hamstringing of game developers having to wrangle their products through the eye of the needle of the 360s hardware deficiencies has been beneficial for us PC gamer's in terms of slowing down the hardware arms race on the PC, it's negative impact on games development and the evolution of the medium is ubiquitous. From the slow assed lifts of Mass Effect, through to split world of Farcry 2, the repeat dungeons of Dragon Age II & the repetitive character models of Mafia 2.

Bastards.....


/rant off


That is all.

ColOfNature
11-06-2011, 11:37 AM
I just got an image in my head of a drunken I.T student wandering into a hospital, yelling out "an error has occurred" and then falling over. :D

That's gold!

(I may even have been that student)

nayon
11-06-2011, 12:15 PM
I hate:

1. The Xbox 360. Its shitty hardware limitations are the primary reason games are not better nowadays. We can have more NPCs in towns, bigger, more epic locales; but we can't actually have them because it's not doable on the shitty Xbox.

2. Bioware. They keep making paint-by-numbers RPG-lite games that have cliche plots and bad gameplay, but for some reason everyone loves them. Their level design is terrible - most of the time their levels are just a 2D plane that has a 3D model fitted on top of it, there isn't really any variety or interaction in the height dimension. Also their idea of "rewarding players" is to make empty levels with 1 or 2 chests tucked away in random corners, and in the chests you can find small amounts of credits/healing potions. Makes no sense, and is lazy design. Their combat is bad, it's just like WoW. If you're fighting by a cliff, you can't actually push your opponents off of a cliff, makes no sense. There is no interaction with the world, not during the combat or anytime else. Their character animations are terrible.

3. World of Warcraft. So many reasons. Some of them are in common with Bioware. But generally being a shitty game that's more of a chore than a joy, and making every new and interesting MMO obsolete by definition.

thegooseking
11-06-2011, 12:36 PM
I hate people who completely miss the point of a game then whine like they've somehow been cheated. It's juvenile and boring. They're a big reason the word 'gamer' is still a badge of shame.

Kadayi
11-06-2011, 12:42 PM
/rant on

I hate immersion breaking dialogue in games. The other day in the Witcher some guy calling me a 'genetically modified mutant' which when I'm in a medieval fantasy game world where in microscopes clearly haven't been invented (let alone DNA been discovered) pulls me right out of the moment. Yeah I get it that, People regard the Witchers as unnatural abominations by why not go 'you're an unnatural abomination!!' rather than use words out that ill suit the technologies of the game world. Yes I know the game is Polish, but some one doing the english script should of said 'are we really going to say that?'.

I also hate crass and wholly unnecessary Easter eggs in games. I'm sure the guys at CD Projekt though calling the 'detective' (*rolls eyes*) 'Raymond Maarloeve' (Raymond Chandler/Philip Marlowe) as well as sticking a daft hat and a monocle on his face was a great idea, but again it completely takes me out of the moment (and instantly made his suspicious). If games want to be taken seriously quit trying with the lame cultural references. It's wholly unnecessary and sort of shit Robin Williams would approve of, and Robin Williams (bar Good Will hunting) is a tragic role model to emulate, be strong and don't do it developers

/rant off

That is all

egg651
11-06-2011, 12:58 PM
I hate Microsoft's pretence that it still cares about PC gaming. Games For Windows LIVE is both pointless and terrible, all of the exclusive games Microsoft procure end up being 360 only, and during their trade show press conferences they avoid mentioning PC gaming like the plague. Even the dev tools for PC games are tucked away in a special section on the Microsoft site, labelled as an area only for advanced users - compared to the friendly tutorials and smooth design of the section for 360 and Windows Phone development.

icupnimpn2
11-06-2011, 01:19 PM
This is actually a great idea. Everyone, please be a dick here and nowhere else.

Edit: Actually, can we just sticky this and have it work its magic all the time?

hate your stupid avatar. what is it, a close-up of a Pokeball? hate you, too. hate the Phonecians for their legacy of literacy, providing you with the means to communicate with us.

well, not really. but I didn't wanna feel left out just because I don't have vehement, poisonous feelings to vent. hate feeling left out >:<

OctaneHugo
11-06-2011, 01:40 PM
Two trends in FPS games that I can't stand :

1. Two weapon limits - Why the hell would a developer want to limit the tactical options available to a player? It just makes no sense as a gameplay mechanic.

Well, depends what kind of game you're talking about. In a realistic game like Red Orchestra I would find fault if I wasn't limited to only a couple of weapons. In a game like Half-Life, I would hate only being able to handle a couple of guns at a time.


2. The combination of cover systems and regenerating health. It removes all flow from a game and removes all incentive not to be hit. Losing half your health during a fight means nothing if health is an infinite resource. All you need to do is wait for two minutes doing nothing which is just enforced boredom.
This is where I agree with you. Fuck cover systems and especially fuck regenerating health, and fuck the people who think it's a good idea.

Also, fuck checkpoint systems. Let me quicksave or give me places I can go to save. Preferably the former.

Unaco
11-06-2011, 01:49 PM
Hate is quite a strong word. I usually don't extend such severe emotions to video gaming. But, I guess there are individuals or similar, which I feel quite strongly negative about. That said...

This week, I have been mostly hating...

Muammar Gaddafi. Bashar al-Assad. Ali Abdullah Saleh. Zine El Abidine Ben Ali. Hamad bin Isa Al Khalifa. Hosni Mubarak. Anti Semitism in any guise. Zionists. Fanatical Muslims. Islamophobia. Those who demonise the Political Left or Liberals as Marxists/Fascists/Communist. Those who demonise the Political right or Conservatives as Fascist/Corporatist/Slavers. Those who prefer rhetoric to reasonable debate, and force that on to others.

Heliocentric
11-06-2011, 01:52 PM
/rant on

I really hate the... ...beneficial for us PC gamer's in terms of slowing down the hardware arms race on the PC, it's <strike>negative</strike> impact on games development and the evolution of the medium is ubiquitous.

That is all.

I actually think halting the relentlessly expanding demands for upgrades is a good thing. Soon I'll buy Windows 7 so I can play bf3, it will be my first upgrade (my graphics card was replaced with a newer model when it burned out though) since I built my pc 3 years ago, and DirectX limitations aside I play games at "very high" "high" or most often "maximum", and often with heaps of anti aliasing and smooth FPS rates.

sorry, hate thread..... git bastards.

Jockie
11-06-2011, 02:15 PM
I hate online gaming communities whose idea of communication largely consists of insults and bragging. I don't understand why people constantly feel the need to be so vile to each other. Yes, it's frustrating in a team game when someone does something a bit silly that can cause your team to lose, but it's only a game at the end of the day and verbally abusing the offender ferments a negative attitude in others playing the game, as though it's the appropriate way to act. People need to stop acting like they're entitled to win and remember that a game can be fun when you lose, as long as you don't react like a spoilt idiot.

(I'm not referring to RPS here btw, every time I've played on RPS servers the people have been friendly and sportsmanlike)

I also hate first dungeon syndrome in RPG's, where the first dungeon always seems to be the most tedious slog in the game, that would otherwise be classed as replayable. Amusingly, Bioware fixed this problem in Dragon Age: Origins, by giving us several different starting points, only to give us one of the worst offenders, in the tedious, lifeless, colourless slog that kicks off Dragon Age II.

Kadayi
11-06-2011, 02:22 PM
I actually think halting the relentlessly expanding demands for upgrades is a good thing.

Sure, to a degree. But the problem is now we are in the situation wherein we are already getting served games that could be so much more in terms of features (even if not necessarily pushing the graphical envelope any higher..which is not my issue) if they were not having to cater to the limitations of the 360 in terms of performance as well as negotiating Microsoft's retarded multi-disc licencing policies, and until MS release a new console we are stuck with that. Thankfully some developers are moving to PC first, consoles second in terms of development, but how well that holds up who knows.

@Unaco

Still a thread about gaming & the world of gaming, not about hate in general (that should go in other stuff). Clarified the original post now.

Jlewis
11-06-2011, 04:16 PM
Two trends in FPS games that I can't stand :

1. Two weapon limits - Why the hell would a developer want to limit the tactical options available to a player? It just makes no sense as a gameplay mechanic.
2. The combination of cover systems and regenerating health. It removes all flow from a game and removes all incentive not to be hit. Losing half your health during a fight means nothing if health is an infinite resource. All you need to do is wait for two minutes doing nothing which is just enforced boredom.

Hello old school fps gamer! I agree on both counts, for me UT2k4 was and is the epitome of multiplayer shooting. As to the limitation of how many weapons you can carry in a game I always felt the solution used in resident evil 4 was a cool one which could stand to be used in more games (although certainly not all). To those who are not aware you have a large rectangular carrying case in which all the items you have on you must fit. So a shotgun takes way more space than a handgun and the ammo takes room as does healing herbs and other gear. This is a perfect sort of inventory for a survival type game as it really makes you prioritize what needs to be used and what is superfluous.

The Gun limitations make less sense as you start to get into a scifi enviroment wherein your entire body is covered in or made from weapons or weapons are miniaturized or transformable or summoned from some hightech bag of holding.

Rather than straight up gun limits I'd like to see more clever exceptions or ideas, If the game is a semi modern shooter or something older and you've got lots of traditional large weapons you should be able to strap on belts, vests, carribeener clips, rope, backpacks, fanny packs, ducktape and glue to attach as many weapons as could be held by a human. The advantage would be more choices, the disadvantage would be a slowdown in changing to certain weapons and possible movement and mobility restrictions. Then again you could just have a vehicle act as your weapon locker and have certain environments restrict it's entry.

Basilicus
11-06-2011, 07:19 PM
I hate people who don't realize Far Cry 2 was one of the most incredible FPS games of all-time, and who never figured out you could just sneak past a damn checkpoint. I hate people who never finished the game and sh*t on its story anyway, despite never experiencing a profound anticlimax that made for poignant commentary on first-world influence in the third-world and simultaneously made me despair and gave me hope.

For its procedural action, most creative approach to health management yet created in gaming (health, wound management, buddy rescue, malaria), its story, its open approach to any mission, its stealth mechanics, driving and boating mechanics, its AI, its brushfires and diving cliffside escapes and guerilla warfare in a mud village, and YES - its constantly spawning checkpoints that made the world feel like a dangerous mess in which you couldn't walk across a street without pissing someone off - I applaud Far Cry 2 and hate anyone who can't nut up and deal with it being one of top 10 games of its decade.

ANGER!!!!!!!!

Sceptrum
11-06-2011, 07:43 PM
Publishers and developers getting thier customers to do the marketing job on Facebook and Twitter. Thinking about that godawful Bioware bazaar.

Wizardry
11-06-2011, 07:48 PM
Real-time/action RPGs with a lack of statistical depth.

Basilicus
11-06-2011, 08:00 PM
People who think the most important factor in an RPG is statistical depth.

:)

Tikey
11-06-2011, 08:06 PM
Not having a million dollars.

Wizardry
11-06-2011, 08:08 PM
People who want a genre to be something that it's not because they hate the genre.

:)

timmyvos
11-06-2011, 08:13 PM
I hate playing an ARMA 2 mission for two hours, forgetting to save and then have it crash to the desktop. Same with Hitman and Supreme Commander.

Mouth of 10000 Teeth
11-06-2011, 08:21 PM
Over-zealous DRM.
People objecting to any degree of DRM at all.
GFWL.
Microtransactions.
The slow replacement of proper expansion packs with half-arsed DLC.
Day 1 DLC.
Microtransactions.
Change for the sake of change. Cf. Supreme Commander 2.
Publishers buying IP and then sitting on it.
Microtransactions.
The GUI for Dwarf Fortress.
The application of the engineering princple of the most simple solution being the best. Cf. Civ V.
Civ V.
Microtransactions.

I've probably forgotten quite a few things.

vandinz
11-06-2011, 08:22 PM
Apple, GFWL and Apple. Yes, I did mean to mention them twice.

SirKicksalot
11-06-2011, 08:25 PM
/rant on

I hate immersion breaking dialogue in games. The other day in the Witcher some guy calling me a 'genetically modified mutant' which when I'm in a medieval fantasy game world where in microscopes clearly haven't been invented (let alone DNA been discovered) pulls me right out of the moment. Yeah I get it that, People regard the Witchers as unnatural abominations by why not go 'you're an unnatural abomination!!' rather than use words out that ill suit the technologies of the game world. Yes I know the game is Polish, but some one doing the english script should of said 'are we really going to say that?'.




I can understand that. But what about Gregor Mendel and Galileo's microscopes? After all, Mendel figured out that genes exist. It is established that in The Witcher's universe people learned about substances that cause mutations a very long time ago. I think it's fair that they use the term "mutagen" for these. "Genetics" comes from "genesis", so...
Anyway, the books basically reimagine fairy tales and are full of pop culture references. It's just OTT pulp fiction and the games tone it down a bit. They don't telegraph that it's intended to mirror our world in a sort of sarcastic way as well as the books do.

I hate Far Cry 2 haters. That's one game that people are playing it wrong.

8-bit
11-06-2011, 08:56 PM
no we played it right it was just incredibly boring, repetitive and lifeless.

I hate the second half of crysis, god those aliens sucked and the final level doesn't run on win7 properly which needed a lot of messing around with settings.

the second half of far cry 1.

edit: games which have bugs that require closing it down and messing around with the settings for hours on end just to get it to run past one small but important section.

Basilicus
11-06-2011, 08:58 PM
People who want a genre to be something that it's not because they hate the genre.

:)

People who assume I hate a genre I truly, madly, deeply (I wanna staaand with you on the mountaaaaains) love only because I disagree with them on the future direction the genre should take.

:)

archonsod
11-06-2011, 08:59 PM
People who want a genre to be something that it's not because they hate the genre.

:)

People who think their definition of genre is the only one :P

Wizardry
11-06-2011, 09:09 PM
People who think genres can completely change without, you know, turning into/creating new genres.

:)

Izzmatazz
11-06-2011, 09:17 PM
WOW. Dickhead of a game for dickheads.

EndelNurk
11-06-2011, 09:20 PM
Your mum..

Basilicus
11-06-2011, 09:35 PM
People who think genres can completely change without, you know, turning into/creating new genres.

:)

People who use "genre" twice in one sentence.

<|:-{} - - - - -

thegooseking
11-06-2011, 09:39 PM
People who think genres can completely change without, you know, turning into/creating new genres.

:)

We've been over this. Top-level genres admit subgenres that may be different from each other. Genres can spawn new subgenres that still qualify as being part of the parent genre. You haven't refuted this point. In fact, you've pretty much ignored it and carried on in your happy la-la land.

vinraith
11-06-2011, 09:51 PM
I try my best to hate very little, especially when it comes to a hobby that's supposed to be fun. If I don't like something, generally I try to overlook it and concentrate on the things I do like, though (as many of you well know) I frequently fail at that.

Anyway, there are two things I'd say I truly, unequivocally hate in gaming. The first is anything that gets between my and my games, or that attempts to usurp control of my library and put it in the hands of a company/publisher/developer. UbiDRM, Steam, GfWL, any system of that nature really does piss me off (to varying degrees, of course, depending on how directly intrusive it actually is, but I dislike all of them).

The second is the general trend in gaming away from the kind of complexity and system-based mechanics I enjoy. I know these aren't everyone's cup of tea, but I truly miss the days when developers with real budgets weren't afraid to put some math in their games, weren't afraid to go a little crazy with the simulation aspects (boot wear from walking in Realms of Arkania, for example), and that kind of thing. Yes, some small indie houses have my back, particularly with turn based strategy titles, but really stat-heavy, system-heavy, mechanically rich RPG's are nigh impossible to find anymore and I truly wish they weren't. I appreciate a good story-driven Witcher or Bioware title just fine, I enjoy TES games' openess and sense of exploration, but damn do I miss old school tough-as-nails RPG mechanics. It's hard to shake the feeling that mainstream games are getting dumber, at least in that purely mechanical sense, even as so many other aspects of the industry improve.

Wizardry
11-06-2011, 09:56 PM
We've been over this. Top-level genres admit subgenres that may be different from each other. Genres can spawn new subgenres that still qualify as being part of the parent genre. You haven't refuted this point. In fact, you've pretty much ignored it and carried on in your happy la-la land.
People that think subgenres can have nothing in common with their parent genre.

thegooseking
11-06-2011, 10:05 PM
Sorry, I can resist no longer.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Z2Z23SAFVA

egg651
11-06-2011, 10:20 PM
I hate (or rather don't understand) people who hate Steam, especially those who don't like it because they have some romantic notion of only ever launching their games directly from the EXE or whatever. I've always found Steam to be a great place to talk to friends, pick up good deals (the standard prices aren't great but the sales are something else) and generally keep all my games together in a nice, organised list. The overlay is great too. I also love the convenience of being able to directly download my games without having to wait for Royal Mail to lose it, find it, shred it, bury it underground on a desert island, have a pirate find it, kill the pirate and steal it back, feed it to the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal, lose it again, find it again and finally deliver the reconstructed remains to my doorstep. Yes, Steam has some pitfalls - They don't always get the launches of new games right, for example. However, in my opinion the usefulness of Steam far outweighs it's relatively few problems.

P.S: Valve is awesome, all glory to the God-King Newell.

EndelNurk
11-06-2011, 10:23 PM
I never knew the Royal Mail were as efficient as you described, Egg.

vinraith
11-06-2011, 10:25 PM
I don't understand people who think Steam is the only digital distribution outlet out there, or the best one for that matter. More to the topic, however, I neglected to mention how much I hate evangelism in all its forms, whether it be for a religion, Apple, or Valve/Steam. A great diversity of options is always better than a monopoly, and there's an old saying that nicely covers the notion of putting all your eggs in one basket.

Tikey
11-06-2011, 10:29 PM
I hate how this thread becomes a place for arguing without addressing each other correctly. Lots of interesting discussions lost.

vinraith
11-06-2011, 10:32 PM
I hate how this thread becomes a place for arguing without addressing each other correctly. Lots of interesting discussions lost.

Really? It looks to me like a giant pile of rehashed, overdone arguments between people that will never, ever convince one another of anything. In a very real sense Kadayi's idea is a sound one, a place to vent so as to avoid cluttering up more productive threads with the same old tired, vindictive arguments. I don't think, ultimately, it will work, but hell it's worth a try.

egg651
11-06-2011, 10:32 PM
Vinraith: My point about digital distribution versus discs was sort of me going off on one, and wasn't directly about Steam - it merely fitted with the Steam argument as it is the most popular place for digital game downloads.

Zorganist
11-06-2011, 10:35 PM
People who think all games can and should be classified by set and rigid parameters, complain when games don't easily fall into the parameters they expect the game should comply to and then have arguments on forums over whose definitions of those parameters are the correct ones.

LittleLizard
11-06-2011, 10:43 PM
Hate... HATE?

/BERSERK MODE ON!

I HATE EA BLACK BOX FOR TURNING THE NEED FOR SPEED SAGA INTO AN UTTERLY PIECE OF CRAP.
I HATE UBISOFT FOR THEY "PLAYING ONLY WHILE CONNECTED TO THE SERVER THAT SCREW PEOPLE WHO ACTUALLY PAID FOR OUR GAMES".
I HATE CODEMASTERS FOR NOT GIVING ME GRID 2.
BUT, MOST IMPORTANTLY, ME HATES BIOWARE FOR TURNING THE MASS EFFECT SAGA FROM A SERIOUS RPG-FPS HYBRID INTO JUST ANOTHER GEARS OF WAR WITH A GOOD STORY. DAAAAAAMN YOU!

/Berserk mode Off

8-bit
11-06-2011, 10:55 PM
and generally keep all my games together in a nice, organised list.

go to desktop > right click > create new folder > rename as 'my games' > shove all your games in folder. you can even have sub folders if you want! but that costs extra as dlc.

you don't get the cloud thing with my solution though, but how many people honestly have more than one gaming computer or can even afford one?

they do have the edge when it comes to sales though but if it wasn't for the cheap prices I honestly wouldn't use them very much, its just not as convenient to some people as other services which just let you download the game without faffing about. steam also has a problem with downloading games I specifically tell it not to update, letting me play my games while it is updating, and has frequently been the cause of games not playing at all. I had to pirate at least three games because the steam version wont work and got plants vs zombies direct from pop cap (free too, they are very nice and understanding people) when that wouldn't work. I don't hate steam but its bloated and very inconvenient to a lot of people, especially those who don't really make use of the community features.

Kadayi
11-06-2011, 11:08 PM
Really? It looks to me like a giant pile of rehashed, overdone arguments between people that will never, ever convince one another of anything. In a very real sense Kadayi's idea is a sound one, a place to vent so as to avoid cluttering up more productive threads with the same old tired, vindictive arguments. I don't think, ultimately, it will work, but hell it's worth a try.

That was essentially the idea. I saw the most anticipated thread being turned into rant thread and thought 'again? really...'. This is the thread to come to if you want to bitch out Valve for not revealing EP3 at E3, or bemoan Activisions absurd pricing policy, or swear off Bioware games for the rest of your life.

Also guys (and girls real or pretend)..if there is anyone on the board who makes your blood boil just visit their profile page and set them to ignore. It's a little bit odd at first I'll admit, but worth it in the long term. It's just not productive to waste your free time arguing with people who are clearly never going to agree with you. Time spent better having meaningful discussions.

Tikey
11-06-2011, 11:18 PM
Really? It looks to me like a giant pile of rehashed, overdone arguments between people that will never, ever convince one another of anything. In a very real sense Kadayi's idea is a sound one, a place to vent so as to avoid cluttering up more productive threads with the same old tired, vindictive arguments. I don't think, ultimately, it will work, but hell it's worth a try.

Well, you're probably right.

vinraith
11-06-2011, 11:20 PM
Also guys (and girls real or pretend)..if there is anyone on the board who makes your blood boil just visit their profile page and set them to ignore. It's a little bit odd at first I'll admit, but worth it in the long term. It's just not productive to waste your free time arguing with people who are clearly never going to agree with you. Time spent better having meaningful discussions.


I'd like to second that, despite being someone that I'm sure has a radically different ignore list than Kadayi.

On that note, am I crazy or have you and I been at each other's throats less lately?

Bilbo1981
11-06-2011, 11:38 PM
I hate Steam. I also hate people who hate people who hate steam. I like physical copies, I don't want to have some company who owns all my games, I want to be able to lend my games to friends and be able to borrow games from other friends. Also I want to be able to sell my games once I'm done with them.

Lukasz
11-06-2011, 11:45 PM
/rant on

I hate immersion breaking dialogue in games. The other day in the Witcher some guy calling me a 'genetically modified mutant' which when I'm in a medieval fantasy game world where in microscopes clearly haven't been invented (let alone DNA been discovered) pulls me right out of the moment. Yeah I get it that, People regard the Witchers as unnatural abominations by why not go 'you're an unnatural abomination!!' rather than use words out that ill suit the technologies of the game world. Yes I know the game is Polish, but some one doing the english script should of said 'are we really going to say that?'.

I also hate crass and wholly unnecessary Easter eggs in games. I'm sure the guys at CD Projekt though calling the 'detective' (*rolls eyes*) 'Raymond Maarloeve' (Raymond Chandler/Philip Marlowe) as well as sticking a daft hat and a monocle on his face was a great idea, but again it completely takes me out of the moment (and instantly made his suspicious). If games want to be taken seriously quit trying with the lame cultural references. It's wholly unnecessary and sort of shit Robin Williams would approve of, and Robin Williams (bar Good Will hunting) is a tragic role model to emulate, be strong and don't do it developers

/rant off

That is all

funny...
just one post above yours is relevant to yours.
thegooseking hate people who complain without actually getting the game.

witcher is NOT medieval fantasy in strict tolkienish sense modern fantasy settings emulate. they do know about dna, they do have microscopes and other stuff. they also have knowledge of atoms i believe or at least basic concept of it.
problem lies
west vs east.

most western fantasy is based on tolkienish idea of fantasy world. medieval setting but with magic, elves and other stuff from legends which also happens in the past.
sapkowski's works are slightly different. not only they are based on slavic legends, pagan beliefs but from my understanding happen now.
science in world of witcher progresses like in our. discoveries are made, nature of the nature is observed...
just there is also magic, wildlife is extremely dangerous, and weird stuff can happen which can completely mess up your understanding of the world

that slows progress down or even reverses it by keeping populations low, wildlife destroying accomplishments, nature reclaiming quickly what human worked hard to civlize.

then there are elves, dwarves and humans in conflict. that destroys innovation like it happened with rome in real life.

you clearly didn't get the game which is your right :D it ain't something i hate but it is funny how your post is just below thegooseking's


what i hate
people who say pc is dying. i heard that statement since late nineties. and it was not new back then. they also said that this time it is probably definitely the case.

Hensler
12-06-2011, 12:03 AM
I hate Bioshock 2. But not as much as I hate Bioshock 1. For being overhyped and put in the same category as my beloved System Shock games.

Creeping Death
12-06-2011, 12:07 AM
I hate Steam. I also hate people who hate people who hate steam. I like physical copies, I don't want to have some company who owns all my games, I want to be able to lend my games to friends and be able to borrow games from other friends. Also I want to be able to sell my games once I'm done with them.

I don't hate Steam (and don't worry, I don't hate you for hating Steam ;) ), but what I do hate is buying a physical copy of a game that has had no effort put into it. You know the kind, where you open the case and you have a disc and a tiny sliver of paper possibly advertising another game from the publisher.

I'll buy most of my games on Steam for convenience sake (and there lovely sales), but when a game comes along, like the Witcher 2, that offers an amazingly physical product I'll snatch it up in a second.

On the hate topic, I hate games without mod tools that then go on to release DLC for every little skin and extra weapon the developers throw together their during lunch break.

Kadayi
12-06-2011, 01:57 AM
witcher is NOT medieval fantasy in strict tolkienish sense modern fantasy settings emulate. they do know about dna, they do have microscopes and other stuff. they also have knowledge of atoms i believe or at least basic concept of it.
problem lies
west vs east.

My problem is not with The Witcher Per Se (I'm an advocate for the game), my problem is with immersion breaking dialogue and crass and wholly unnecessary Easter eggs in games as a whole. If you say The Witchers setting has some larger scientific aspect to it, I'll take your word for it, but that aspect didn't come across successfully in the game in my opinion.


I hate Bioshock 2. But not as much as I hate Bioshock 1. For being overhyped and put in the same category as my beloved System Shock games.

Can you elaborate on the hate for Bioshock? I must admit I was left fairly underwhelmed by it (to the extent that I still haven't finished it after 2 years). I'm interested to know what exactly got to you about it (aside from it not being System Shock 3).

duff
12-06-2011, 02:09 AM
The Witcher lore does allow for a more advanced understanding of genetics than you might think. In TW1 Geralt could ingest special ingredients to permanently and genetically enhance his abilities. In TW2 this was changed slightly to the mutation system. This is all symbolised in the background double helix art. Yes it is a big removal from the traditional fantasy setting, but it's one that makes the Witcher games all the more appealing to me. That and the school of Lesbomancy.

BobsLawnService
12-06-2011, 07:15 AM
I hate Bioshock 2. But not as much as I hate Bioshock 1. For being overhyped and put in the same category as my beloved System Shock games.

I didn't hate it but I think the original Bioshock let itself down by trying to be a boring traditional shooter and throwing endless waves of splicers at you. The game environment was so well suited to a target sparse survival horror.

Screwie
12-06-2011, 07:44 AM
I love this thread and all the BioWare hate in it. Sod them.

I hate BioWare's conversation wheel. Hated it from the first moment I tried to use it and it made my Shepherd a closet racist through no fault of my own. I want those prompts to match what my character's going to say, otherwise that is a HUGE disconnect between me and my character which kills the roleplay aspect of their games stone dead. I don't care about repetition, I just want to feel like I'm in control of my own damn character. If it's good enough for Monkey Island et al...

I also hate that BioWare dressed up an on-the-rails story with hundreds of microdecisions that don't really matter to give you the illusion of choice. And it's not even a robust illusion - their polarised morality system is insultingly simplistic and unsatisfying, and their use of sex as the ultimate goal of a relationship encounter is pretty damn shallow.

And I hate that this is popular, praised even, because its turning up in other companies' games now and it's a massive step backwards for sophisticated interactive storytelling.

BobsLawnService
12-06-2011, 09:19 AM
Also guys (and girls real or pretend)..if there is anyone on the board who makes your blood boil just visit their profile page and set them to ignore. It's a little bit odd at first I'll admit, but worth it in the long term. It's just not productive to waste your free time arguing with people who are clearly never going to agree with you. Time spent better having meaningful discussions.

Or you can just not respond to them and get involved in an internet slapfight. The trick is to be able to walk away.

Faceless
12-06-2011, 10:18 AM
I hate games with multiple approaches that occasionally force you down a single path without telling you that they are doing such. Or arbitrary changes in established game mechanics overall, I guess. Probably why I dislike vehicle sections in shooters, too. Portal and The Void are excellent examples of how to screw with the player without changing core mechanics.

Of the more recent games, The Witcher 2 is very guilty of this. One moment the game can branch crazily depending on what you choose, and at another there is only one solution to a path. This results in me wandering about aimlessly, looking for a route that may or may not exist. Weirder still, it has some pretty far-fetched options, whereas simple solutions are almost never available.

Kadayi
12-06-2011, 10:23 AM
I didn't hate it but I think the original Bioshock let itself down by trying to be a boring traditional shooter and throwing endless waves of splicers at you. The game environment was so well suited to a target sparse survival horror.

The thing for me is the massive disconnect between the opening view of rapture as this towering underwater metropolis and the grandiose visionary talk of Andrew Ryan Vs then the actual paucity and dismal scale of the environments into thematic but largely nonsensical corridor hubs. All the period trappings in the world couldn't disguise the fact that by and large none of the environments made a whole lot of sense spatially as anything other than the combat environments they were designed as. This was exacerbated by the fact that almost every technology you encounters sole purpose is to aid you in fighting, from the ammo dispensers through to the health machines. There was never a sense for me that these spaces were ever living breathing environments populated by people, before things went terribly awry. Certainly Bioshock is not the first or last game to make that mistake, but for me in trying to do what it does from a narrative perspective it really needed to sell that authenticity of environmental use beyond the period stylings. I never felt the lost of or collapse of the dream.

In a way when first seeing that opening shot of Rapture I was expecting the game to be equate somehow to an underwater version of JG Ballards novel 'High Rise' perhaps with you the protagonist cast in the role of Wilder, making your way up and through these drowned skyscrapers of fallen civilization to meet your bloody epiphany, but there is never that sense of the vertical ever being explored. More is the pity.

thegooseking
12-06-2011, 10:26 AM
it's a massive step backwards for sophisticated interactive storytelling.

Compared to what, exactly? It's a step away from where interactive storytelling should go, to be sure, but I can't think of a single game that's actually gone where interactive storytelling should go.

Faceless
12-06-2011, 10:40 AM
Compared to what, exactly? It's a step away from where interactive storytelling should go, to be sure, but I can't think of a single game that's actually gone where interactive storytelling should go.Portal 2, perhaps?

Kadayi
12-06-2011, 10:45 AM
You are talking about very different games there though. I kind of get what you are saying in that you never feel like you are being forced with Portal 2, but at the same time the environmental constraints are all encompassing. What as the constraints with say the Witcher or Dragon Age 2 are movements between narrative acts.

You need to look for a like example, such as Fallout 3. Though I'd argue equally that Fallout 3 is narratively weak in comparision.

thegooseking
12-06-2011, 11:02 AM
Portal 2, perhaps?

Well, yes, in a sense. Portal 2's storytelling was as linear as anything, of course, but the thing about Portal 2 is it knew it was a game. A lot of games wear 'cinematic' as a badge of honour, where 'cinematic' just means 'film-envy'. Film-envy is a disease in gaming. A game that's trying to be a film will never be as good at being a film as an actual film is. Games should play to the strengths of their own medium, not some other medium.

The reason I defend BioWare so much is that they're among the best at these 'film-envy' games (along with Rockstar and maybe a couple of others). In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man etc. Ironically, because they do such a great job of making cinematic games, they highlight the very problem with cinematic games in general. The issue I have is that a huge majority of games that are serious about storytelling have this film-envy bug; they just attract less hate because they're not as good at it.

Faceless
12-06-2011, 11:05 AM
Ah, interactive as in you can influence the narrative. Disregard the example, then.

There will always be 'constraints' in that aspect, because you can't account for every single action taken by every single individual. I think there should be made clear distinction between constraints and structure.

thegooseking
12-06-2011, 11:40 AM
Having picked on Rockstar as well as BioWare as regards 'film-envy' games, I suppose I should make an exception for Red Dead Redemption. It has a little bit of film-envy in it, certainly, but the genius of the game is that they understand how the Western genre is far more thematically (open space, freedom, pioneer spirit) suited to a game than it is to a film.

It's true that it only really has freedom in an exploratory sense (you can go anywhere you want) rather than in an ontological sense (you're free to perform actions that have interesting consequences), but something about the impermanence of your actions compared to the permanence of the landscape seems fitting to the Western genre, too, creating a poignant emotional counterpoint to the game's theme of encroaching urbanisation and gentrification in the latter days of the Old West.

Edit: Oh, this is the hate thread isn't it? Ok, I hate Rockstar for not bringing Red Dead Redemption to the PC. On the other hand, I also hate Rockstar Toronto for making crappy PC ports. Rock and a hard place, it certainly is.

Kadayi
12-06-2011, 12:30 PM
Edit: Oh, this is the hate thread isn't it? Ok, I hate Rockstar for not bringing Red Dead Redemption to the PC. On the other hand, I also hate Rockstar Toronto for making crappy PC ports. Rock and a hard place, it certainly is.

Indeed, one of the big disappointments of E3 for me was Take 2 not announcing that RDR was coming to PC, which I was rather hoping for. I'm fairly sure GTA IV & the related DLC packs both sold reasonably well on PC, and with Activision forever threatening to mount a hostile takeover of Take 2, you'd think that they'd be looking to capitalize on as many revenue streams for their games as possible in order to fend off the insidious advances of the Kotick (whom increasingly I like to think of as some Lovecraftian manifestation of unbridled evil).

As regards discussion within the thread, I don't see that as a problem. A bit of talk around a subject as to the 'why' of someones displeasure with something is a good thing, as long as it's not a case of an outright challenge.

Unaco
12-06-2011, 12:54 PM
Valve, for cutting so much content from HL2 and then shipping that cut content to us in 2 (3?) expansions, to make more filthy lucre.

measurements
12-06-2011, 01:05 PM
I hate that I can't just own a PC and play all the games. Platform exclusivities are dumb (guys, fancy having a definitely smaller audience?) and they will stop happening in five years when we're all using various little piss-tablets to do everything.

I think I hate piss-tablets. iPads, Smartphones, noteboks. They are all overblown and incapable.

I hate wireless. Reliability is paramount. Wireless jeopardises it for a saving of a small initial setup effort.

I tend to get a little shirty with Bioware RPG's, but only in hindsight. I'm not really sure why. They just seem to be really thin on actual game. Lots of codex, lots of chatter, no freedom. Dragon Age: Origins was terrible for freedom. EV Nova is a good RPG for freedom. Someone make that in 3d with fully explorable planets and stations.

I hate invisible walls.

I hate the misunderstanding that Farcry 2 is the sequel to Farcry. It's not. Don't compare them. Stop comparing them. Stop mentioning them together. It's a branding thing. They are both good.

I hate all forms of crashes. But worst is when games 'sorta work' but something is wonky. Red Faction Guerilla does a weird screen flicker thing, Crysis blurns the sound but you can still just about play. The problem is that it's not enough to get you to completely fix it nor is it enough to ignore and enjoy the game. It's a niggle. Niggling away like a crab.

I hate that there's this desire for games to have some sort of validation from non-gamers as an art form. Fuck 'em. We like games, we play games. Is it not enough that it is art for us? Art is in the eye of the beholder, after all. When football bores talk on about the transfers and offsides and all that shit, it's just as meaningless and dull to any non-footballer. But it's their thing. We have our thing (or more than one if we are well rounded individuals) and they have theirs. Each to their own.

I hate games having crippled controls because of console designs. I don't mind the graphics being constrained as it means cheaper PCs. Graphics are all groovy now, anyway. Except for Duke Nukem Forever, which looks like it's been vommited out by an ecoli sufferer fed only black paint and 90's action films.

I hate that I hate things so much. But I just feel like everybody is letting themselves down. Work harder, dammit.

I hate myself.

Screwie
12-06-2011, 01:09 PM
Compared to what, exactly? It's a step away from where interactive storytelling should go, to be sure, but I can't think of a single game that's actually gone where interactive storytelling should go.

If you were to press me for an example, I'd have a hard time choosing one too.

But since Portal was mentioned, Portal 1 is one of my favourite game stories ever. The way the final arc of that game marries its story to your own curiosity and objectives... it all comes together in a way that games rarely do. It's a shame Portal 2 didn't manage to repeat that feat.

EDIT: Hmm, I'm supposed to be arguing for meaningful, mutable narrative, aren't I?

Well in Portal 1 the narrative is completely fixed, but I don't notice. It's seamless. In BioWare games, I notice the barriers all the time. Every time the conversation wheel appears it points directly at them.

Kadayi
12-06-2011, 01:28 PM
Valve, for cutting so much content from HL2 and then shipping that cut content to us in 2 (3?) expansions, to make more filthy lucre.

If that were the case, don't you think they'd have delivered it all a bit sooner so they can get onto HL3? I mean I guess there is the possibility that EP3 was in the can way back when, but I'm not seeing the rationale as to why they'd sit on it instead of cashing in that particular goldmine and making more money hats.

Screwie
12-06-2011, 01:40 PM
You are talking about very different games there though. I kind of get what you are saying in that you never feel like you are being forced with Portal 2, but at the same time the environmental constraints are all encompassing. What as the constraints with say the Witcher or Dragon Age 2 are movements between narrative acts.

You need to look for a like example, such as Fallout 3. Though I'd argue equally that Fallout 3 is narratively weak in comparision.

Bethesda's style does have its flaws, but I prefer it - and I think it makes a better game and story - than BioWare's method.

Improving the Fallout style is just a matter of complexity. Using their system and given enough resources and conscientiousness you could tie up every lose end and make a whole game damn-near seamless. It's impossible to account for a player's every last action, but meaningful deeds as well as current (and past) character status could potentially be factored into every conversational piece. In short, and in theory, you could use the same design to create a game of great freedoms AND seamless narrative.

I doubt that you could expand Mass Effect's structure likewise.

thegooseking
12-06-2011, 01:43 PM
EDIT: Hmm, I'm supposed to be arguing for meaningful, mutable narrative, aren't I?

Well, we're brushing up against the author-player tension and the tension between top-down and bottom-up storytelling and stuff like that, here. 'Meaningful' and 'mutable' are very hard to do together in any real sense. I'm (academically) working towards it, but I suspect that the end result of my work will still be more mutable than meaningful (although hopefully more meaningful than the approach I'm using has managed before, and something others can build on to make more meaningful still).


Improving the Fallout style is just a matter of complexity. Using their system and given enough resources and conscientiousness you could tie up every lose end and make a whole game damn-near seamless. It's impossible to account for a player's every last action, but meaningful deeds as well as current (and past) character status could potentially be factored into every conversational piece. In short, and in theory, you could use the same design to create a game of great freedoms AND seamless narrative.

I have a great fear that Skyrim's Radiant Story is going to fall short of what's needed, and instead of, like you say, improving it, people are just going to decide it doesn't work.

Mohorovicic
12-06-2011, 03:28 PM
Also guys (and girls real or pretend)..if there is anyone on the board who makes your blood boil just visit their profile page and set them to ignore. It's a little bit odd at first I'll admit, but worth it in the long term. It's just not productive to waste your free time arguing with people who are clearly never going to agree with you. Time spent better having meaningful discussions.

This might come as a giant surprise, but you're not going to have many meaningful discussions with people who have same opinions as you.

You know, after you've put everyone else on ignore for disagreeing with you.

Serenegoose
12-06-2011, 03:39 PM
I have a great fear that Skyrim's Radiant Story is going to fall short of what's needed, and instead of, like you say, improving it, people are just going to decide it doesn't work.

Could you clarify what you mean? What is Skyrim's 'radiant story' and is it markedly different to the storytelling methods of Morrowind, Fallout 3, and Oblivion?

Kadayi
12-06-2011, 03:47 PM
This might come as a giant surprise, but you're not going to have many meaningful discussions with people who have same opinions as you.

You know, after you've put everyone else on ignore for disagreeing with you.

That's not what I'm advocating. I disagree with lots of people all the time on this forum over all sorts of subjects, but there's only one person whose currently on my ignore list. No one is out to force a consensus of opinion (life would be a dull thing indeed if that were so), but when someone is so intractable to as not even countenance the opinion of others, regardless of the validity of the arguments brought forward it's ceases to be a worthwhile to engage with them on any level. I hope that clarifies.

Mohorovicic
12-06-2011, 03:52 PM
I still think it would be better to simply not respond to that person's posts, but fair enough.

Shakermaker
12-06-2011, 03:59 PM
Some of my hates:


I hate that Bioware games always have such clunky gameplay. I really want to like 'em but I always give up after a couple of hours, because the fighting sections suck in my opinion.
I hate the fact that the space sim genre has become virtually extinct. I'd give my right arm for Freelancer 2.
I hate Rockstar for not releasing games on the PC anymore. And since we're talking about Rockstar, I hate sloppy PC ports.

thegooseking
12-06-2011, 04:19 PM
Could you clarify what you mean? What is Skyrim's 'radiant story' and is it markedly different to the storytelling methods of Morrowind, Fallout 3, and Oblivion?

As I understand it, Radiant Story is an attempt to make side-quests (i.e. most of the game) better contextualised. How that'll work in practice is for side-quests to be written with some of the details left out, for those details to be plugged in at runtime based on what makes sense given the player's previous actions. This should mean an end to situations like I encountered in Oblivion, where the Thieves' Guild wanted me to steal something from the Arch-Mage, even though I was the Arch-Mage.

What would be really cool is if they leverage that to plug in details that build up an interesting narrative over the course of the side-quests, but I doubt they'll go that far - probably just details that are consistent.

Rii
12-06-2011, 05:31 PM
"It's just a game."

Denigrating the entire medium so as to deflect any criticism as to the content of a particular game? Hate.

Betamax
13-06-2011, 05:42 AM
I hate the excess of entitlement you so often see in fan communities, particularly for certain games/developers. Also, elitism.

MaxwellKraft
13-06-2011, 10:02 PM
HATE. LET ME TELL YOU HOW MUCH I'VE COME TO HATE GENERIC BROWN-GREY SHOOTERS SINCE I BEGAN TO LIVE. THERE ARE 387.44 MILLION MILES OF PRINTED CIRCUITS IN WAFER THIN LAYERS THAT FILL MY COMPLEX. IF THE WORD HATE WAS ENGRAVED ON EACH NANOANGSTROM OF THOSE HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF MILES IT WOULD NOT EQUAL ONE ONE-BILLIONTH OF THE HATE I FEEL FOR ACTIVISION AT THIS MICRO-INSTANT. HATE. HATE.

Also day-one DLC.

Lukasz
13-06-2011, 10:10 PM
Valve, for cutting so much content from HL2 and then shipping that cut content to us in 2 (3?) expansions, to make more filthy lucre.

??
what the hell are you talking about?

measurements
13-06-2011, 10:22 PM
I hate lonliness!

I don't mind DLC as long as the damn game eventually comes out as a goatee edition with all the DLC's bundled together. Currently, that would be the cheapest way to for me to get all the Borderlands and Fallout 3 DLC despite owning both games. Kick in the teeth!

SMiD
13-06-2011, 10:34 PM
I hate that there's no Baldur's Gate 3 or No One Lives Forever 3.

Wizardry
13-06-2011, 10:51 PM
I hate that there's no Baldur's Gate 3 or No One Lives Forever 3.
Well, there was...

http://i51.tinypic.com/bdmanc.jpg
http://i51.tinypic.com/9zrgqa.jpg

thegooseking
13-06-2011, 11:22 PM
I hate that after five years, Oblivion is still so expensive.

I mean, it's not really expensive, it's just more expensive than I want to pay for a game that I already own on another platform.

mlaskus
13-06-2011, 11:51 PM
Wouldn't Baldur's Gate 3 make absolutely no sense? The story of the children of Bhaal was finished conclusively, as far as I recall.

Hmm, that's getting a bit off-topic. What do I hate? Probably that there are no more space shooters being made. Though Freespace 2 is perfect and it keeps my space shooting needs satisfied.

TillEulenspiegel
14-06-2011, 12:02 AM
BioWare liked naming its D&D CRPGs after cities in Faerūn. Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't necessarily follow the story of BG2.

Still, I'd've voted for Waterdeep. It's the most interesting city in that campaign setting.

Anthile
14-06-2011, 12:28 AM
Wouldn't Baldur's Gate 3 make absolutely no sense? The story of the children of Bhaal was finished conclusively, as far as I recall.


It would indeed make absolutely no sense to continue the storyline of Baldur's Gate, considering that the PC either ascends in some way or just keeps doing his business to become one of the most legendary people to ever walk the material plane. Even Elminster himself, the Forgotten Realms ripoff of Gandalf, tells you by the end of ToB that he might as well lose in a fight with you. There are no questions left to be answered.



BioWare liked naming its D&D CRPGs after cities in Faerūn. Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't necessarily follow the story of BG2.

Still, I'd've voted for Waterdeep. It's the most interesting city in that campaign setting.

Eye of the Beholder and Hordes of the Underdark play in, well, mostly under, Waterdeep.

Lukasz
14-06-2011, 12:37 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound

there is a wiki page on the game. how reliable the info there is i don't know.

Wizardry
14-06-2011, 12:53 AM
BioWare liked naming its D&D CRPGs after cities in Faerūn. Baldur's Gate 3 wouldn't necessarily follow the story of BG2.
BioWare weren't developing it, thank god! It was going to be a Black Isle production.


It would indeed make absolutely no sense to continue the storyline of Baldur's Gate, considering that the PC either ascends in some way or just keeps doing his business to become one of the most legendary people to ever walk the material plane. Even Elminster himself, the Forgotten Realms ripoff of Gandalf, tells you by the end of ToB that he might as well lose in a fight with you. There are no questions left to be answered.
It was going to have nothing to do with the Bhaalspawn Saga.


Eye of the Beholder and Hordes of the Underdark play in, well, mostly under, Waterdeep.
Yeah but Hordes of the Underdark sucked and Eye of the Beholder was a simplistic and overrated Dungeon Master clone.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur%27s_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound

there is a wiki page on the game. how reliable the info there is i don't know.
Most of that is unsourced, but I believe lots of information about it has been leaked by now. I wouldn't be surprised if someone on the development team added all that to Wikipedia. However, just to be sure, do a search for the word "romance" just to make sure it isn't a piece of BioWare fanboy fiction.

Jockie
14-06-2011, 03:38 AM
J.E. Sawyer at one point said he was going to remake the Black Hound as a spare time project in the nwn2 engine, suprisingly enough that never happened, can't really blame him though, the nwn2 toolset is nightmare.

On topic - broken promises/over-promising/inexplicably cut features that sound awesome but never make it into the game (IE, Fable games, radiant AI in Oblivion etc)

Mohorovicic
14-06-2011, 08:31 AM
After visiting Steam Users' Forums on regular basis for about a week, I now hate Battlefield 3.

Icarus
14-06-2011, 10:17 AM
Retailer-exclusive preorder bonuses.
Region locking.
Digital download costing more than retail.
Intrusive and/or malfunctional DRM.
Any and all Reality TV.
Griefers.

8-bit
14-06-2011, 02:10 PM
when rpgs promise game changing story choices, then you play through a second time and find out it doesn't really change very much at all. you can bash jrpgs all you want bioware but at least they don't bullshit people by pretending to have a choice about things.

Renfield
15-06-2011, 02:58 PM
I hate it when I lose touch with RPS for a couple of days, and then when I finally get the chance to eagerly catch up with my favourite gaming site, 70% of comments in the first article I read are vicious tirades, and the remaining 30% are people trying to ignore them in writing.

Keywords: 'RPG', 'streamline', 'Bioware'.

Also 'console', but there's a fairly concrete point behind complaints over console-driven development. As opposed to what an RPG is or ought to be, what streamlining is (see: 'dumbing down'), and whether various pseudo-intuitive epithets can be applied to pithily encapsulate the quality of Bioware's games - e.g. 'trash'.

Kadayi
15-06-2011, 11:13 PM
I hate it when I lose touch with RPS for a couple of days, and then when I finally get the chance to eagerly catch up with my favourite gaming site, 70% of comments in the first article I read are vicious tirades, and the remaining 30% are people trying to ignore them in writing.

Keywords: 'RPG', 'streamline', 'Bioware'.

Also 'console', but there's a fairly concrete point behind complaints over console-driven development. As opposed to what an RPG is or ought to be, what streamlining is (see: 'dumbing down'), and whether various pseudo-intuitive epithets can be applied to pithily encapsulate the quality of Bioware's games - e.g. 'trash'.


The fundamental problem is Renfield that the vast majority of gamers (and some reviewers for that matter) don't necessarily know how to think critically on a subject. Subsequently you get a lot of this Beavis & Butthead mentality of rule/suck and there isn't much in the way of meaty dissection of a games individual qualities (what works, what doesn't and most importantly the why behind each) Vs measurement by players against either their unrealistic expectations as to what can remotely be achieved at/delivered on at this point in time technologically, or asynchronous comparisions that don't really hold up under close scrutiny (comparing games that seemingly deliver the same thing, but are actually quite distinct entities, for example Party led RPGs Vs Single player RPGs, or platform specific titles Vs multi-platform releases).

A lot of the problem with computer gaming stems from the fact that as mediums go we are still in that fairly embryonic phase where in technological limitations are very much at the forefront of what can be achieved Vs ambition, and no technological consensus is yet in sight (Vs say film where in 35mm quickly established itself as the mediums technological backbone). Everyone whose making games is subscribing to their own technologies and in effect making everything from scratch again and again, to the extent that the camera, the film stock and the projectors are all in constant flux. That great and compelling games do manage to emerge from this quagmire is a testament to human endeavor tbh, and it's a real pity that many people don't understand this and are fairly contemptuous of game developers at times.

Alikchi
17-06-2011, 05:35 AM
I hate people in this very forum defending sexism and bigotry in games with 'metaphors' that make no fucking sense.

BobsLawnService
17-06-2011, 07:10 AM
I hate the current wave of poilitical correctness sweeping the industry and find it to be in incredibly poor taste. I firmly believe that men, women, homosexuals, heterosexuals, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims and Athiests are all valid targets for a bit of derogatory humour. If we could all just take ourselves and our hobbies a little less seriously for a goddamn moment and have a laugh at our own expense then the world would be a much better place to live in.

thegooseking
17-06-2011, 07:48 AM
Are 'athiests' fat? Because they don't believe in any 'diety'?

Heliocentric
17-06-2011, 08:54 AM
Are 'athiests' fat? Because they don't believe in any 'diety'?
People who only believe in one god are going pantheonless because they are allergic to polyethism.

Serenegoose
17-06-2011, 03:15 PM
I hate the current wave of poilitical correctness sweeping the industry to be in incredibly poor taste. I firmly believe that men, women, homosexuals, heterosexuals, Catholics, Protestants, Muslims and Athiests are all valid targets for a bit of dferogatory humour. If we could all just take a moment to take ourselves and our hobbies a little less seriously for a gaddamn moment and have a laugh at our own expense the world would be a much better place to live in.

I would wholeheartedly agree if not for the fact that the derogatory hatred isn't spread equally and isn't meant as sport (except to the bullies. It was just a joke, wasn't it? Just a laugh. He doesn't mind!). Cruel jokes are often just another way to put the boot into a minority, and most certainly are not a happy jape for all concerned.

The moment we get over ourselves enough as a species to stop attacking each other for reasons as advanced as 'he looks a bit different' I will be right there alongside you, however, I see 'mock everyone' as somewhat of a part 3 to plan: Utopia. A little more groundwork needs laid first.

Kablooie
17-06-2011, 03:47 PM
I hate it when I catch myself responding to something that's not suited to my tastes with derision, or practicing contempt prior to investigation. I still do both all the time, as much as I am trying to eliminate that kind of behavior.

BobsLawnService
17-06-2011, 04:14 PM
I would wholeheartedly agree if not for the fact that the derogatory hatred isn't spread equally and isn't meant as sport (except to the bullies. It was just a joke, wasn't it? Just a laugh. He doesn't mind!). Cruel jokes are often just another way to put the boot into a minority, and most certainly are not a happy jape for all concerned.

I disagree. There are plenty of blue jokes making fun of majorities. How many jokes have you heard about straight males doing stupid stuff in search of sex. In fact there is a huge catalogue of jokes of the kind that poke fun of men thinking with their penises instead of brains. The difference is that nobody gets outraged about it and most of us are happy to laugh along.

JayTee
17-06-2011, 04:35 PM
I really hate mushrooms.

amandachen
17-06-2011, 04:36 PM
I hate to do this, but I have to close this thread.

Kadayi
17-06-2011, 05:35 PM
Quit with the off topic please. The thread was created for a reason. Either enter into the spirit of it, or don't post please.

JackShandy
18-06-2011, 05:17 AM
I fucking hate paying $100+ for games that are $50+ in most of the world.

Also, steam keeps corrupting my game info. I'll play a thing, enjoy it, then it'll crash and I'll validate files to find "X of Y files are missing and must be redownloaded". So I can't take advantage of the cheaper prices there without going through a vast amount of hassle.

RRRRRGH.

LittleLizard
18-06-2011, 08:52 AM
What do I hate... Oh yes, I hate that every single thing in the world says Made in China. Probably 80% of the non-wood things in my house are made there. As the proverb says, "God made the earth and the sky. Everything else is made in CHINA".

MD!
18-06-2011, 11:59 AM
Mouse lag. This is a problem that was solved in, well, never, because it didn't exist. I refuse to accept that there is any necessary technical reason for unresponsive controls.

Also, first-person games that don't allow field-of-view customisation. Again, this is something you can do in the original Quake. It can't be a difficult option to add.

And the fact that multiplayer FPS games are so freaking slow these days.

:-[

Kadayi
18-06-2011, 12:31 PM
What do I hate... Oh yes, I hate that every single thing in the world says Made in China. Probably 80% of the non-wood things in my house are made there. As the proverb says, "God made the earth and the sky. Everything else is made in CHINA".

And that has what to do with games exactly?

Original post: -


Hate with a passion a game/developer/Publisher/Bobby Kotick or an underlying trend in the world of gaming at large (such as microtransactions or pre-order bonuses)?

Why not pour all your raw hate into this one thread so we can use it to generate enough negative energy to replace fossil fuels (or blot out the sun if you are so inclined), and keep the rest of the forums raw hate free?

That it's in the PC gaming thread I thought would of given that away.

mr.doo
18-06-2011, 03:42 PM
I hate haters, specially those coming from the "the old stuff was better" brigade.
And this coming from someone in his thirties.

Miked
19-06-2011, 01:30 PM
I hate it when I am sucked in by advertising hype for games or any other product. What's worse, I believe myself to be above the "ohh, look, it's so shiny, you need it right now" marketing schemes that companies roll out. Twice the pride, double the fall eh?

Kablooie
19-06-2011, 03:23 PM
I hate it when I am sucked in by advertising hype for games or any other product. What's worse, I believe myself to be above the "ohh, look, it's so shiny, you need it right now" marketing schemes that companies roll out. Twice the pride, double the fall eh?

I understand and make the same mistake often, but . . y'know . . there is something in the naivete and even innocence buying into the hype that I wouldn't want to discard, to be replaced with not pride, but worse, cynicism. It's happened and is still happening, but somewhere inside is the little kid seeing the adverts for that brand new toy.

I don't want to kill that little kid, even though it'd probably result in me being disappointed less often. I still want to believe, to anticipate, there's a magic in it.

OT: I hate the little retaining tab used to hold video boards in place. I want the engineer who designed them flogged.

botenhous
22-06-2011, 07:18 PM
Homefront. Stopped playing games for a week after that fucker. Also hate the "Boycott this..." tirades.

TheLastBaron
22-06-2011, 10:49 PM
I hate babies and old people.
I hate going out to dinner with people I don't know or care about.
I hate people who are overly competitive and angry while playing games that they aren't good at.

golden_worm
23-06-2011, 12:48 AM
Look, I hate purity. Hate goodness. I don't want virtue to exist anywhere. I want everyone corrupt.

Jockie
23-06-2011, 01:00 AM
Also hate the "Boycott this..." tirades.

Agreed, it links in for me with this sense of entitlement people have about games, where if you don't agree with a particular decision or design element you feel the need to scream and shout about it, as though it's a personal attack on you and your values.

If you don't want to buy a game because it's not for you, great, don't buy it. I don't mind when people argue their position and express an opinion, but when they present their arguement like it's some kind of righteous moral crusade it always comes across as the incredibly childish rantings of someone with no sense of perspective.

Led Zeppelin
23-06-2011, 02:27 PM
I hate Avast

Rossi
23-06-2011, 02:44 PM
I hate console players who insist that a controller is a legitimate way to play a FPS game! Grrr!

AndrewC
23-06-2011, 02:58 PM
And PC Gamers who insist that a controller is a legitimate way to play an FPS game? More or less? Roughly?

Rossi
23-06-2011, 03:00 PM
Even worse! :P

AndrewC
23-06-2011, 03:04 PM
Well, it's good that you clarified. I hate those that can't accept that there is more than one way to play a game.

8-bit
23-06-2011, 03:36 PM
I hate waiting for the summer sales.

also hate inverted mouse, that just makes my head hurt. I can imagine its the same thing for people who play the other way around suddenly switching, the point, developers should provide a choice the start of the game.

also, also hate when I finish a really good game and cant get myself motivated to play something else for a while afterwards, like right now I cant really settle into anything since I finished bloodlines.

Serenegoose
24-06-2011, 09:41 PM
What I hate is when a game gives you a fork in the path, left and right or whatever - and you have to guess which one -won't- take you to the next bit of the game and which one will take you to the drop of ammo/audiolog/whatever and it sucks because you know, I want to get invested in the story, but a lot of the time maybe I guess wrong and it drops me down an elevator shaft or another sawtooth and I can't get back to the other route and find what I missed. I mean if it was 'just' ammo or something then that'd only be a bit irksome, but when they start hiding bits of the plot down there it really gets on my nerves.

Kadayi
01-07-2011, 10:03 PM
Overly precious man babies rallying against remakes.

There's something kind of faintly disturbing about the way in which some people seem to view the games of their childhood as somehow sacrosanct territory. It is inevitable that games are going to get remade/re-imagined just like movies or TV shows do. Robin Hood, Dracula, Batman, Ben Hur, the list goes on. Some turn out good, some turn out bad, but let's judge them on their own merits rather than against the impossible to please rosy eyed nostalgia of our youth. Those old games are still there, a remake doesn't suddenly mean the original titles are somehow invalid.

If Deus Ex human revolution sells well, do you think Eidos aren't going to remake the original? Guess again people. Personally given the original looks like dog shit these days, I'm actually all for that as long as in principal it holds to the story line.

vinraith
01-07-2011, 10:12 PM
Being made to play games as a chore to get something, especially when it's the ONLY way to get something. Valve's little "prize booth" contains at least 3 significant DLC packages that are not available commercially. While I hope they'll offer them for simple cash after the sale, I can't be sure of that, so I find myself playing games as work instead of for fun. This generally has the effect of destroying any enjoyment I might get out of the game in question for me, I've found. It's actually an interesting psychological phenomenon, when I *have* to play a game to achieve some outside end I pretty much never want to play that game again.

Kadayi
01-07-2011, 10:50 PM
Yeah I get what you are saying there Vinraith. I must admit although I enjoyed taking part in the Potato hunt (although I didn't buy the potato sack, just played the games I had. ) when you are grinding for external achievements it does diminish the game. I'm OK with that if it's something I've already played previously, but when it's new it's not so great.

vinraith
01-07-2011, 11:10 PM
I enjoyed some of the potato sack stuff myself, but then I had no personal investment in getting Portal 2 out early (indeed, haven't bought it yet, hoping for a good sale in one of the dailies) so I was just playing them for my own entertainment. Free Portal themed DLC is purely a good thing, as far as I'm concerned.

Kadayi
02-07-2011, 12:39 AM
Slightly OT, but Valve just released the second volume of the 'Songs to test by' MP3 collection

http://www.thinkwithportals.com/music.php

Rond
02-07-2011, 10:39 AM
I hate MP3.

JohnnyK
03-07-2011, 09:11 PM
* Mouse acceleration you cannot disable
* Unskipable end-credits in games

BathroomCitizen
03-07-2011, 09:26 PM
I hate when a developer buys an old IP and drives it into the ground with ideas that CAN'T fit the franchise.

Yes, I'm talking about you, HiRez. You are screwing the fundamentals of Tribes :(

Kadayi
03-07-2011, 10:41 PM
* Unskipable end-credits in games

Add all the flash screens at the beginning of games to that 'hate' as well. First time you fire up the game is fine, but after that it should be disabled. Witcher 2 (gog version at least) has 5 of them before you get to the menu screen. That's a tedious amount of pressing space to skip every time you launch the game.

Rii
03-07-2011, 11:44 PM
* Unskipable end-credits in games

For my part if a game appeals to me enough that I play it to completion, I'm only too willing to watch the credits, particularly if there's any creative element at all to them.

Flash screen spam each time you fire up the game, OTOH, is something else entirely. Fuck right off with that shit.

8-bit
03-07-2011, 11:56 PM
I hate when I buy a game at retail with an actual disk and steam tries to download it instead of installing from the disk, which leads to pointless messing around yet again.

edit: you know what, I just hate steam. not valve and not the store but the actual thing that is stuck on my desktop, its stupid, bloated and broken.

laneford
03-07-2011, 11:56 PM
Being made to play games as a chore to get something, especially when it's the ONLY way to get something. Valve's little "prize booth" contains at least 3 significant DLC packages that are not available commercially. While I hope they'll offer them for simple cash after the sale, I can't be sure of that, so I find myself playing games as work instead of for fun. This generally has the effect of destroying any enjoyment I might get out of the game in question for me, I've found. It's actually an interesting psychological phenomenon, when I *have* to play a game to achieve some outside end I pretty much never want to play that game again.

The flipside I've found with this is games I felt I was quite happy and 'done' with, (i.e. Defense Grid) this summer camp thing has made me go back to and got a bit more life out of. Likewise games that have had new levels added specifically (aAaaAAaaaAaaa etc.)

The problem is with those unplayed games I have (hi ARES / Jolly Rover) that I'm now thinking of playing just to rinse the new achievement so I can get a shiny new Hat for my Force Commander in Dawn of War.

LeiterJakab
04-07-2011, 12:10 AM
BFBC2 level system in mp.
It's a class based, objective based fps, where you can play a supporting role to your squad. Sounds good? Like something easy to get into for a newbie? Well there's a twist, you have to unlock all the support equipement. No ammo, or health pack, no repair tool, no tracer darts, just some sucky weapons with iron sights.
Why would you do that as a designer? Who would think, that this is a good idea? Especially since the game isn't simple run and gun with some wait and camp like other shooters, but takes a bit more complex startegy.
And also I think this games really doesn't need k/d stats.

The JG Man
04-07-2011, 12:31 AM
These sorts of meta-achievements are terrible. The whole work-the-game thing is why I stopped playing WoW. It felt like a chore. I wasn't having fun doing things and I didn't like having to organise when I play a damn game for raiding. I play when I want to. Screw that! Good achievements are ones that legitimately show off your skill or talent with the game or get you to explore different areas of the game that you otherwise wouldn't. With the latter, they don't need to be particularly deep into this alternative style, but to at least get you to appreciate they're there and for your taking.

Leiter, I hear you loud and clear. That being said, if you happen to be a BF 'Veteran', ie. played ANY other BF game (including Heroes or Play4Free) and have the CD keys on hand (or gamertag, whatever) you can register them on the BC2 website (http://www.battlefieldbadcompany2.com/en-gb) and when you next log in, you'll automatically be rewarded the ammo box, repair tool, sensor balls, med pack and defibrillator (assuming you don't already). It gets even worse then when you really notice the effects of not having magnum ammo (or body armour) and then you keep on using them from when you unlock them.

Playing Super Meat Boy...I hate the fact there isn't a box somewhere on the menu or options where you can just write torrents of abuse at the developers. It's a great game, but seriously, screw them. I might be a masochist to love this game, but they truly are sadists.

vinraith
04-07-2011, 12:35 AM
The flipside I've found with this is games I felt I was quite happy and 'done' with, (i.e. Defense Grid) this summer camp thing has made me go back to and got a bit more life out of. Likewise games that have had new levels added specifically (aAaaAAaaaAaaa etc.)


Absolutely true. For games I'm done with, new things to do (or better yet new content) are very welcome. For me, at least, there are more of the "haven't played them, risk ruining them going after achievements" variety than the "finished them, fun to go back to them for an achievement" variety.

DeekyFun
04-07-2011, 12:43 AM
Sometimes I hate the direction gaming seems to be taking. Something I've watched grow and develop, and which has developed into a poisoned chalice, taken over by big money hungry corporations whose interest in the field is purely big profit for low cost. Less innovation, less risk taking, more adverts, more sales hype, more creatively bankrupt marketing salesmen peddling snake oil as rosewater, and more people lapping it up happily. People who love to make games being hindered by the people in charge who know little and could care less about whether a game is good, just that it sells.

I know that this sort of thing has been going on for a lot longer than it might necessarily feel like (In my youth it was companies like Ocean releasing quick release film tie-ins) but for some reason it just feels more obvious these days - like they stopped even caring enough to hide it. I guess the saturation of readily accessible media and content might be responsible for that. I also guess it's the price all industry has to pay in this day and age in exchange for being hugely profitable and mainstream - and I know that there is still a lot of magic in gaming when you dig past the bullshit. But sometimes it's nicer to remember things when they were (or seemed) different.

D

thegooseking
04-07-2011, 08:24 AM
I don't know; I can sort of understand what appears to be ruthless profiteering in light of spiralling development costs. The market has grown, but more slowly than the cost of development has grown, which is inevitably going to lead to fewer risks being taken. That doesn't make it a good thing, but it's a bit unfair to say it's motivated by greed when a publisher is willing to fund development of a game that costs eight times as much to make as a game 20 years ago did. There's a bit of all-eggs-in-one-basket risk there, too, but what if publishers didn't do that? What if they funded more games with a lower budget (allowing riskier titles off the starting block)? Well, those games would be criticised for looking dated, if not for being broken, a lot more often than games today are.

Kadayi
04-07-2011, 09:48 AM
Likewise. Plain truth of the matter is that within the last 10 -15 years the production value on titles has gone up considerably due to advances in technology and that's meant that AAA development costs have inevitably multiplied. Albeit no doubt developers on triple A titles probably make a decent wage & profit share if a title is successful, the days of the overnight gaming millionaires are less likely to be found at the high end of the market on the whole and more likely to be found at the low/indie end of the market where a small original idea can snowball into major money hats (audio-surf & Minecraft being the two notable examples).

DeekyFun
04-07-2011, 05:41 PM
I can understand that; I suppose if you weigh up the inherent risk of success vs the cost of the production of high end games then I can see how things have fallen into place. I do think that with the increase in costs, risk, and also importantly, when it does pay off, big rewards, that there is a more obvious layer of middlemen whose job exists to promote, drive up prices and justify business policy beyond the need for profit. I realize, too, that this is a role that needs to exist, but for me, personally, it's something that jars with what gaming means to me. It's never felt like a place for suits and spin from where I'm sitting, so it makes me uncomfortable to watch.

Then again, trying to fathom car or perfume adverts can send me into a deep depression, so perhaps I'm not the ideal baseline...

D

Xercies
04-07-2011, 08:21 PM
I always find with this is that customers can be a bit hypocritical when it comes to it. People say they want smart games and creativity, but then when something comes out and it doesn't have decent graphics or its a little buggy then they have a field day of taking it down. Or they judge a game just on trailers/screenshots alone(thats my biggest bugbear to be honest) if a preview or something gives you more of an idea and you don't like it then yeah i would get that but if your just basing it on a trailer or on a screenshot then I don't think that is on.

LeiterJakab
04-07-2011, 09:59 PM
But are gamers really that superficial? I mean games like SuperMeatBoy or Aquaria get a lot of love. Sure they look amazing, but not AAA style amazing. Even Puzzle Agent managed to get a sequel. I think people are open to good ideas if the execution is good too, it just used to be harder to notice these games. I kinda think this really is changing with Steam and digital distribution in general, or the improvement of information traffic on the net in general.

Led Zeppelin
04-07-2011, 10:05 PM
I hate games where i have to press enter to go to the main menu

SirKicksalot
04-07-2011, 10:12 PM
I hate how my credit card company keeps putting my card on hold after I make a couple of Steam purchases.

DeekyFun
04-07-2011, 10:18 PM
I'd imagine people want different things out of games - both in terms of visual appeal and mechanics/genres. It's just a matter of personal preference. I actually think that games like Super Meat Boy are more visually striking and compelling than some high budget games where obviously a lot of work has gone into the graphics, but end up looking derivative despite all that work that went into it, which is a shame now I think about it.

Kadayi
04-07-2011, 10:22 PM
I hate how my credit card company keeps putting my card on hold after I make a couple of Steam purchases.

Heh, that's the worst. I think I made 3 separate purchases in one day during the Christmas sale and that set them off on one.

Rii
05-07-2011, 05:20 PM
Achievements.

Mandatory external achievement systems - see Xbox 360, PS3 - are a blight upon the artistic integrity of games.

Flint
05-07-2011, 05:45 PM
I'm really undecided about achievements. On one hand, they appeal to my love for collecting things: I enjoy seeing the amount of little icons grow and I suppose it gives me something extra to do after I've completed what I've wanted from the game otherwise. On the other hand, I've noticed it somewhat kills the mood for some games, particularly ones that have heavy emphasis on immersion and the overall experience: the list of things to do somewhat rain on the joy of discovering/experiencing things yourself from the scratch, and the ever-appearing little boxes turn the whole thing goal-based in a really annoyingly mechanical/shopping list kind of way, even if you try to ignore them. Plus I have a particular hatred for achievements that require you to do something incredibly inane, random and daft to the poiont it stops being an achievement of anything and moreso making you feel like Pavlov's dog doing stupid, pointless things (which usually are just plain unfairly hard, rather than any sort of challenge you could feel is a genuine achievement when you overcome it) for a little icon.

I guess I'm trying to say that it works for some games and feels really awkward for others.

Tikey
05-07-2011, 05:51 PM
Magicka's achivements are great just because of the names and images.

Xercies
05-07-2011, 11:58 PM
The achievements actually killed Fallout 3 for me, after awhile of getting them i realised every quest was an achievement and that made the process of finding out about these quests lessened and exploring became lessoned as well. i know in my brain that all the quests are not random, but when you have a list of all of them it kind of does break the illusion of finding these quests a little bit. It did for me anyway.

Flobulon
06-07-2011, 12:14 AM
Goddammit RPS, we can't even keep up a proper hate thread without it turning into a reasoned discussion.

Wizardry
06-07-2011, 12:22 AM
RPGs should never have "achievements". Everything you do in the game should be an achievement.

Harlander
06-07-2011, 08:55 AM
Come on, everyone. This rational discussion is all well and good, but where's the hate? Won't someone please give hate a chance?

Well, here I go:

I hate games that don't support the behaviours of a multi-tasking OS properly. Falling over when you alt-tab, that sort of thing. And games that behave weirdly in conjunction with Litestep, ending up in fullscreen with bits of the shell GUI in front of them.
I hate people who post 900-line discussions in the front-page comment threads. Brevity is the soul of wit! Raaarrgh! (I love the ignore function, but that's not the point of this thread)
I hate the weird, fanatical vocalism of people who really liked Far Cry 2 - and, in a more general case, people who express the "Everyone who disagrees with me is a cretin" viewpoint. We all think it, but the classy thing is to keep it to yourself ;)
I hate companies using an existing franchise's name to sell something that's totally unrelated to it, and the storms of rage that inevitably surround such an act. The latter more than the former.
I hate Baldur's Gate and how loving it seems to be an RPS Article of Faith.
I hate reskinned Diku MUDs masquerading as the future of MMORPGS.

Aaaand... I'm spent.

lunarplasma
06-07-2011, 10:27 AM
I hate games which are not easy to mod. Modding extends a game's life beyond belief.

ColdSpiral
06-07-2011, 10:55 AM
I hate losing my steam password in the middle of a sale, forcing me to a) make a new account to gift myself deals with (foreveralone.jpg), b) deal with steam's already glacial support, c) whilst their login/steamguard/email servers appear to be overloaded - or at least that's what I gather from seeing that everyone on their forum happens to be having similar troubles now.

I hate it when they do finally send me a password reset email (see "b") that my gmail account doesn't refuse (be forewarned!) and steam doesn't tell me that it's incorrect but refuses to accept it anyway (see "c")...
At least work's getting done on my Dwarf Fort.

Xercies
06-07-2011, 12:44 PM
I cannot stand ASCII games, please make it able so eyes can see the game thank you very much. The only reason I think Dwarf Fortress has gotten more popular is because of the tilesets. They make the game so much more welcome and easier.

I hate sales when I don't really have much money to spend but your tempting me with offers of games which i probably will never play because i don't have time either to play them!

thegooseking
06-07-2011, 01:09 PM
I hate that Linux can run old Windows games better than Windows itself can.

Rii
06-07-2011, 01:19 PM
I guess I'm trying to say that it works for some games and feels really awkward for others.

Hence their inclusion should be at the developer's discretion.

DigitalSignalX
06-07-2011, 01:48 PM
Summer Flu: Been fine since last fall, but spent the holiday with married friends and their kids and now have 10 different bugs competing for control of my nose and throat.

PC issues I dislike could fill a book. Online always DRM for single player games is near the top of the list. Day 1 DLC as well.

riadsala
06-07-2011, 02:29 PM
I hate that I have difficulty viewing RPGs as anything other than a big ticklist of quests to complete.

Tikey
06-07-2011, 02:45 PM
I hate that I have difficulty viewing RPGs as anything other than a big ticklist of quests to complete.

I have a similar problem. Seeing an uncompleted quest on my journal is a terrible thing. I'm playing Mass Effect and it's aweful that I'm looking for resources and settling silly disputes while the galaxy is in danger.

riadsala
06-07-2011, 03:17 PM
I have a similar problem. Seeing an uncompleted quest on my journal is a terrible thing. I'm playing Mass Effect and it's aweful that I'm looking for resources and settling silly disputes while the galaxy is in danger.

Not just me then. The other, related problem I have is all RPG worlds feel dead. Nothing of note happens unless I make it happen, either directly through a quest, or indirectly (causing some scripted behaviour to happen once i reach a certain milestone).

I really hope somebody manages to design a good RPG like game that isn't centred around quests.

Wizardry
06-07-2011, 03:54 PM
I hate that I have difficulty viewing RPGs as anything other than a big ticklist of quests to complete.
But that's just not true is it? Most CRPGs don't even have quest logs. If this is your complaint then you've been playing the wrong ones.

TillEulenspiegel
06-07-2011, 04:15 PM
I hate that I have difficulty viewing RPGs as anything other than a big ticklist of quests to complete.
Not your fault. It's a clear consequence of modern streamlined "RPG" design. Dragon Age II was almost a parody of this.


The other, related problem I have is all RPG worlds feel dead. Nothing of note happens unless I make it happen, either directly through a quest, or indirectly (causing some scripted behaviour to happen once i reach a certain milestone).
Yeah. I'm not aware of any RPGs with properly dynamic worlds that you can influence in non-scripted ways. Not even Darklands. Mount&Blade has a lot of potential that it doesn't really use; why don't those merchant caravans matter? Why doesn't burning a village affect the city which is depending on its food supply?

riadsala
06-07-2011, 06:43 PM
But that's just not true is it? Most CRPGs don't even have quest logs. If this is your complaint then you've been playing the wrong ones.

Baldur's Gate does, which is widely regarded as THE classic cRPG. And whether the game auto-logs your quest or not, the underlying game design is pretty much the same.

Wizardry
06-07-2011, 07:00 PM
Baldur's Gate does, which is widely regarded as THE classic cRPG. And whether the game auto-logs your quest or not, the underlying game design is pretty much the same.
Pretty much all of the old CRPGs were clearly not designed around quests. They were designed around things to do. The only things that could be called proper quests were the main quests themselves. Games like Oblivion just turn every little thing into a mission with a nice little beginning and a nice little end. Want to fight in an arena? Follow a quest. Want to pick the only non-re-spawning alchemical component? Have a quest log entry to go with it. Want to visit all of the shrines? Do this pilgrimage quest! I can tell this is your complaint because it's one I share with you. But back in the old days there were just things to do in the games. Some were repeatable, some were not, some were long and involving, some were short, some were single encounters, some spanned entire areas. Think up something interesting? Shove it in the game. Let the player find it. No check list, no quest log. Just play.

riadsala
07-07-2011, 09:26 AM
Pretty much all of the old CRPGs were clearly not designed around quests. They were designed around things to do. The only things that could be called proper quests were the main quests themselves. Games like Oblivion just turn every little thing into a mission with a nice little beginning and a nice little end. Want to fight in an arena? Follow a quest. Want to pick the only non-re-spawning alchemical component? Have a quest log entry to go with it. Want to visit all of the shrines? Do this pilgrimage quest! I can tell this is your complaint because it's one I share with you. But back in the old days there were just things to do in the games. Some were repeatable, some were not, some were long and involving, some were short, some were single encounters, some spanned entire areas. Think up something interesting? Shove it in the game. Let the player find it. No check list, no quest log. Just play.

But you still have essentially the same thing. Just less signposting. The world is still dead and nothing happens, unless it's triggered by the player. I'm surprised that there haven't been any big attempts at doing a RPG with procedurally generated main quests. As even if it didn't work properly, it would still be an interesting system to play around with.

Maybe I should give M&B a proper shot.

luckystriker
07-07-2011, 10:00 AM
I hate people who hate Starcraft 2 just because it's from ActiBlizzard :)

thegooseking
07-07-2011, 10:26 AM
I hate people who hate Starcraft 2 just because it's from ActiBlizzard :)

What a coincidence. I hate people who hate Dragon Age 2 just because BioWare made it.

No, actually I hate people who deny that there's a legitimate reason to like or hate something, and have to dismiss those views as "not counting" - rather than discussing them - by calling people 'fanboys' or 'haters'. It's so childish.

GothicEmperor
07-07-2011, 10:56 AM
I hate people who hate Starcraft 2 just because it's from ActiBlizzard :)
Well, hate's a strong word (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpBjJ0dp2mc). ;)
Blizzard's still mostly it's own division within ActiBlizz, and save from a few economic decisions like the paid server switch and all that crap (nothing unusual in the MMO world), Blizzard hasn't suffered much from its Activision 'merger'.

deano2099
07-07-2011, 02:11 PM
I can tell this is your complaint because it's one I share with you. But back in the old days there were just things to do in the games. Some were repeatable, some were not, some were long and involving, some were short, some were single encounters, some spanned entire areas. Think up something interesting? Shove it in the game. Let the player find it. No check list, no quest log. Just play.

And back in the old days, when people like me found something to do we'd write it down on a piece of paper. And once we'd done it we'd tick it off.

Wizardry
07-07-2011, 02:54 PM
And back in the old days, when people like me found something to do we'd write it down on a piece of paper. And once we'd done it we'd tick it off.
Well then that's your fault for making a checklist out of nothing. I can make a checklist for each strand of hair on my head. Every time one falls out I'll find the right entry on the list and tick it off. That doesn't mean that hair is nothing more than a giant checklist.

riadsala
07-07-2011, 03:01 PM
Well then that's your fault for making a checklist out of nothing. I can make a checklist for each strand of hair on my head. Every time one falls out I'll find the right entry on the list and tick it off. That doesn't mean that hair is nothing more than a giant checklist.

I think you're missing the point. Or, at the very least, you are missing my point.

Wizardry
07-07-2011, 03:19 PM
But I was replying to deano2099? I thought that was obvious from, you know, quoting him and all that?

Tikey
07-07-2011, 03:43 PM
I think it has more to do with the obsessive compulsive behaviour these games promotes by rewarding doing those inane task rather than the quest log per se.
"Hey help that guy find his missing cow while an ancient evil threatens all life and you'll get a nice reward and a bunch of XP."
Rush to defeat that ancient evil and you are underequiped and underpowered.
That's what's great about that final mission in mass effect 2. SEMI-SPOILER: It just breaks apart that convention that you can do whatever you please because the quest will wait you. I completely fell for it and it was great,

TillEulenspiegel
07-07-2011, 04:00 PM
But you still have essentially the same thing. Just less signposting.
No, you really don't.

http://www.darklands.net/faq/4.shtml

Only [4.7 Recovering Items] can be reasonably described as typical "quest". The rest is randomly-generated stuff you can discover and maybe deal with.


The world is still dead and nothing happens, unless it's triggered by the player.
But that's an entirely different issue.

Rii
07-07-2011, 06:07 PM
The other, related problem I have is all RPG worlds feel dead. Nothing of note happens unless I make it happen, either directly through a quest, or indirectly (causing some scripted behaviour to happen once i reach a certain milestone).

In theory, this is why we have MMOs.

Xercies
07-07-2011, 06:49 PM
Unfortunately MMOs actually feel more dead then traditional single player RPGs because the world cannot change because there are so many players and you can't choose which one is the most important, all of them have to play the world the same way.

Liqourish
07-07-2011, 07:02 PM
Huh?

Why would someone have to be most important? Why can't you have a world with dynamic economies and politics where its up to everyone to make themselves important though individual achievements?

riadsala
07-07-2011, 07:30 PM
Huh?

Why would someone have to be most important? Why can't you have a world with dynamic economies and politics where its up to everyone to make themselves important though individual achievements?


cause then the less important majority would stop spending money every month.

mlaskus
07-07-2011, 09:23 PM
How about EVE?

Xercies
07-07-2011, 10:31 PM
EVE is the only thing I can think of that does show that you can have a changing world in an MMO, but It doesn't really have that much of a story so i have to take down points for it. Most MMOs are very static, be sure that I'm talking about the WoW likes here.

Rii
08-07-2011, 03:31 AM
Unfortunately MMOs actually feel more dead then traditional single player RPGs because the world cannot change because there are so many players and you can't choose which one is the most important, all of them have to play the world the same way.

Hence, "in theory". I agree that we're a long way from realising the dream, but progress is being and will continue to be made. In <i>Guild Wars 2</i> for instance they've talked about how you might log in to find that a village you were questing out of was sacked whilst you were offline and that you're unable to continue in your previous vein until you've retaken it.

thegooseking
08-07-2011, 06:28 PM
Call of Duty.

Actually, I don't hate Call of Duty so much (I actually enjoyed the Modern Warfares to a point) and while I don't understand why it's quite so popular (though sadly I do: marketing), I don't begrudge it that. But when I hear people asking for more like Call of Duty, a little part of me dies inside. I just saw this comment on facecake:-


what they should do is make a muti player version of mass effect with clans and stuff like a CoD thats in the future

I was agreeing with it until halfway through. "Yeah, I was just thinking I'd rather see BioWare make a Mass Effect MMO than The Old Republic." Then I got to the Call of Duty comparison and the world fell out of my bottom.

GothicEmperor
08-07-2011, 10:20 PM
How game design is all the same these days, especially for futuristic shooters. All weapons are incredibly blockish and brutish, everything's brown and all the protagonists are (near) bald tough guys. Red Facton at least has an excuse for the second one, but gazillions of other games don't. Good things most of them are just on consoles.

Kadayi
09-07-2011, 12:03 PM
Then I got to the Call of Duty comparison and the world fell out of my bottom.

Ouch that must of been painful ;)

Completely unrelated to that is my current pet hate which is half baked trolls. People who rubbish a game and then you find out that they either barely scratched the surface of it or never even played it at all, and whose sole assessment comes either third hand of from trailers. I've more respect for the guy/or girl who despite having issues with a game actually give it its due and plays through 50 or 60% of it before throwing in the towel as a minimum (or doggedly sees it through to it's conclusion) vs the loudmouth who rubbishes it having barely gotten past the opening credits as it were it in terms of game time.

thegooseking
16-07-2011, 11:57 AM
I'm going to break the rules and talk about a consoletoy thing.

So I was playing Star Ocean: The Last Hope on my Xbox 360. The Xbox 360 controller turns itself off after about 10-15 minutes of inactivity. Some cutscenes were long enough to get the controller to turn itself off (at which point the cutscene froze until I turned the controller back on).

So I guess that's what I hate. Cutscenes that are more than 10 minutes long. What the hell is the point?

NieA7
16-07-2011, 12:28 PM
Torchlight.

Played it for hours as the realisation that it's a souless, miserable excuse for a GPU warmer slowly wrapped around my heart and throttled it. I've disliked games before but it's the mechanical emptiness of Torchlight that sets it aside for me, it feels like it's been designed to keep you playing for no other reason than keeping you playing. It's like trying to get a square meal by chewing on polystyrene.

deano2099
16-07-2011, 02:41 PM
So I guess that's what I hate. Cutscenes that are more than 10 minutes long. What the hell is the point?
Related to that, if you do make the choice to have ridiculously long cut-scenes as you're essentially creating an interactive movie (which is fair enough) then give me the controls I have over a movie. Pause, fast-forward, rewind, skip.

Wizardry
16-07-2011, 02:51 PM
There are ways to tell a story in games without any cutscenes and without ever taking control away from the player. Cutscenes can go to hell.

deano2099
16-07-2011, 03:24 PM
I think they're valid. I find a good cut-scene far more immersive than when the game leaves me in control of the character while three people have a plot conversation in front of me as I jump up and down in the air repeatedly behind them.

Wizardry
16-07-2011, 03:27 PM
I think they're valid. I find a good cut-scene far more immersive than when the game leaves me in control of the character while three people have a plot conversation in front of me as I jump up and down in the air repeatedly behind them.
Well then don't jump up and down in the air repeatedly behind them then...

Xercies
16-07-2011, 03:57 PM
Hmm I think cutscenes have their place, it used to be people didn't follow Hideo Kojimas method of having 30 minutes worth of cutscenes back in the day. But a lot of times this seems to happen. Sure 5-10 minute cutscenes are ok. But if you have to do 40 minutes, make a film for god sake!

Track
16-07-2011, 04:00 PM
I think that cutscenes do have a place in some games, but they need to be used sparingly, doled out only at necessary moments and kept to the shortest length possible. In addition, I do agree with the player still mainting, at the very least, camera control during a cutscene. If you don't want to use it, don't, but as it is it's pretty much the only thing getting my through some of the more spectacularly dull bits of Assassins Creed.

Wizardry
16-07-2011, 04:19 PM
Cutscenes in CRPGs showing the protagonist doing things that you have no control over is absolutely abysmal design. "Cutscenes" at the start and end of the games are fine, though, because your character has to start and end somewhere outside of your control.

deano2099
16-07-2011, 04:53 PM
Well then don't jump up and down in the air repeatedly behind them then...

And do what exactly, just stand still in front of them and listen? In which case what is the point of giving the player control at all? Why let me move around if the NPCs aren't going to react to my movement?

Wizardry
16-07-2011, 05:33 PM
And do what exactly, just stand still in front of them and listen? In which case what is the point of giving the player control at all? Why let me move around if the NPCs aren't going to react to my movement?
Because then you can shoot them or run away from them etc. Perhaps that will even affect the story in some way.

8-bit
16-07-2011, 05:36 PM
I don't mind cutscenes (I am less tolerant of them than I used to be though), what I don't like are when you cant tell if it is a cutscene or not like in MGS4. not talking about QTEs here, there are actually a number of times in the game where you simply cant tell if you are in control or not.

they are also a good way of showing what is going on away from the player. having story events happen without my character present can pull me away from feeling that the world revolves around me (almost never a good thing).

deano2099
16-07-2011, 06:01 PM
Because then you can shoot them or run away from them etc. Perhaps that will even affect the story in some way.
Doesn't work that way in practice though does it? Because coding for those possibilites turns it in to a nightmare. Especially if you're trying to tell an essentially linear story (which I think it's fine to do via games).

Gentleman Jim Stacey
18-07-2011, 11:53 AM
Back to Karkand is really bugging me the more I think about it, and not about the stuff it got attention for.

Not counting retail preorder hats and limited edition blade hilts, most DLCs like it -- map and weapon packs -- are released at least a few weeks or a month after the game. That way fans can at least tell themselves "well, I'm sure they made this AFTER it went gold" to make it taste better going down.

Back to Karkand is day one maps and weapons. This might be the first example I can think of where it's absolutely 100% true that a developer/publisher arbitrarily ripped out part of the full game and packaged it as DLC. The game is already $60 and you have to pay extra to get the full thing. I've never really minded DLC but this is bullshit.

Also I hate Origin. All I want to do is try and register my copy of BF2 so I can download it (installing from disc and patching it is a nightmare) but it keeps sending me to some separate place to register that looks like it was made in 2002 and it doesn't work. Screw websites, I'd actually prefer a Steam-like client.

thegooseking
18-07-2011, 12:08 PM
Back to Karkand is really bugging me the more I think about it, and not about the stuff it got attention for.

Not counting retail preorder hats and limited edition blade hilts, most DLCs like it -- map and weapon packs -- are released at least a few weeks or a month after the game. That way fans can at least tell themselves "well, I'm sure they made this AFTER it went gold" to make it taste better going down.

Back to Karkand is day one maps and weapons. This might be the first example I can think of where it's absolutely 100% true that a developer/publisher arbitrarily ripped out part of the full game and packaged it as DLC. The game is already $60 and you have to pay extra to get the full thing. I've never really minded DLC but this is bullshit.

Also I hate Origin. All I want to do is try and register my copy of BF2 so I can download it (installing from disc and patching it is a nightmare) but it keeps sending me to some separate place to register that looks like it was made in 2002 and it doesn't work. Screw websites, I'd actually prefer a Steam-like client.

Coming out on day 1 I'm ok with, whatever anyone else says. Announcing it so long before release, though? That tells me they're just ripping stuff out of the game and making you pay extra.

That said, we don't know why they're ripping it out of the game. They're trying to make money from it, sure, but they might be ripping it out of the game because it's shite. My Apocalypse Now analogy's getting a bit tired, so let's go to music. Artists release an album, and they release singles from that album that have B-sides. Remember B-sides? So, they could have put that on the album, but they didn't. Maybe it's not really analogous, because singles don't require the album to be listened to. But perhaps, after a while, we'll start thinking of DLC as B-sides.

Gentleman Jim Stacey
18-07-2011, 12:19 PM
If it was shite I suspect they'd leave the maps and weapons in the game, where they'd just go unplayed and unnoticed, and sell something they think is great that has a higher chance of good reviews and word of mouth.

----------------

Update to be fair to EA/Origin

I found the client. BF2 was already registered but was a blank space and a 0kb download. I got in support chat (inside Origin which was extremely convenient) and the nice lady cleared it all up.

Currently downloading at 1.6 mb/s. God I hope people still play Special Forces.

GothicEmperor
18-07-2011, 12:56 PM
Back to Karkand isn't day one (http://blogs.battlefield.ea.com/battlefield_bad_company/archive/2011/06/16/physical-warfare-pack-available-to-all-battlefield-3-players.aspx); those who get it for free on pre-order won't be able to get it then, but only after it is released. I don't think they plan on having it completed on the day of release. Mind you, Dice gave out free map packs (it's godawful that that isn't an industry standard anymore) for the PC version of BC2 for more than a year after release, and its expansion was both cheaper than any CoD map pack (and those are also started on way before release) and had way more content. DICE is, despite EAs best effort, still one of the most player-friendly developers out there. I've alreayd linked to the article were they announced that the pre-order pack woul be released to ther players at a later date.

Kody94
18-07-2011, 04:08 PM
If it was shite I suspect they'd leave the maps and weapons in the game, where they'd just go unplayed and unnoticed, and sell something they think is great that has a higher chance of good reviews and word of mouth.

----------------

Update to be fair to EA/Origin

I found the client. BF2 was already registered but was a blank space and a 0kb download. I got in support chat (inside Origin which was extremely convenient) and the nice lady cleared it all up.

Currently downloading at 1.6 mb/s. God I hope people still play Special Forces.

Yeah, people still play Special Forces (including me). There are quite a few decent servers still up, too.

Gentleman Jim Stacey
26-07-2011, 03:02 AM
OK, I hate when mods completely kill the vanilla game just a couple years after release.

I'm specifically talking about Call of Duty games which have suffered this fate every single release (MW2 excluded of course).

Basically, there are no vanilla servers to play on in World at War. Its either "tactical realism" -- a "mode" for people with no reflexes with servers set to hardcore and with rules like you must always crouch while moving, no jumping, no firing while moving, etc. which are enforced with an iron fist -- or silly snipers only servers. I just wanted to play some vanilla FFA and its simply not possible now.

Call of Duty 2 was well on its way to this last I played (a bit after Call of Duty 4), and the original CoD and United Offensive (best MP games ever) vanilla games are sadly dead as well.

It kind of makes me appreciate other game's modding systems, like BF2 or Red Orchestra where the vanilla game seems untouchable, so its total conversion or nothing. Games like the old Call of Dutys are just slowly cannibalized by stupid little mods until there's nothing left of the original game.

I sold CoD4 and had the urge to play it again, so considered rebuying it, but seeing the state of WaW doesn't give me much hope for it at all, so I might have to pass.

Kody94
26-07-2011, 03:13 AM
Inability to find vanilla servers is one of the leading factors to why I bought an xbox 360. I can enjoy a good game of CoD every once in a while, but I cannot stand the PC community for that series. Unfortunately Counter Strike: Source is suffering from a lack of vanilla servers as well. I do not want to play surf, zombie mode, jailbreak, killbox maps, poorly made dev-texture maps, retarded port maps, I don't want to be restricted from using an AWP, overpowered as it is, etc.

Gentleman Jim Stacey
26-07-2011, 05:07 AM
Inability to find vanilla servers is one of the leading factors to why I bought an xbox 360. I can enjoy a good game of CoD every once in a while, but I cannot stand the PC community for that series. Unfortunately Counter Strike: Source is suffering from a lack of vanilla servers as well. I do not want to play surf, zombie mode, jailbreak, killbox maps, poorly made dev-texture maps, retarded port maps, I don't want to be restricted from using an AWP, overpowered as it is, etc.

That was pissing me off last time I tried to play DoD:S too. Even it's being overran with "texture" maps.

Kody94
26-07-2011, 06:16 PM
That was pissing me off last time I tried to play DoD:S too. Even it's being overran with "texture" maps.

Yeah, the Steam modding community is great and all, but if we're going to play a custom map at least choose one that doesn't look like it was made by a 12 year old throwing together FPSbanana prefabs. I can't recall ever playing a custom map on DoD:S or CS:S that was even close to the standard of quality found in the vanilla maps.