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View Full Version : New Double Fine point-and-click adventure title Kickstarter project



Miker
09-02-2012, 02:20 AM
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure Looks like Notch's suggestions had some effect, eh? I'm going to be putting in some 20-odd dollars myself in order to see this come to fruition.EDIT: Put $30 towards it to get the bonus materials. I'd love to see Notch come in and throw in half a million and just reach the goal here and now.

BenWah
09-02-2012, 03:26 AM
I *LOVED* the "double-fine pack" consisting of Psychonauts and Costume Quest.

It seems like a clever scheme, getting people to invest in them while guaranteeing 0 return.

ZIGS
09-02-2012, 03:28 AM
Already $78,000 in little over an hour. This will go places

The JG Man
09-02-2012, 03:55 AM
Hit 100k.

Watch the video, by the way; it's fantastic.

Miker
09-02-2012, 04:23 AM
I don't remember the last time I've gotten this excited about a game announcement. I'm worried that it'll lose steam before it hits the full $400k, as I suspect most people who will actually put money towards it will do so immediately upon hearing about it or shortly afterwards. We'll see, though.

Ignorant Texan
09-02-2012, 04:29 AM
136k, now. And, if anyone else is having trouble with Miker's link, you may link through the Double Fine website.

http://www.doublefine.com/news/
(http://www.doublefine.com/news/)
It looks like they might hit the goal by sometime tomorrow, if the growth in the pledged amount continues at the pace documented in this thread.

The JG Man
09-02-2012, 04:38 AM
Bare in mind that a lot of Europe is currently asleep and whilst the internet moves quickly, there's still plenty of filtering-through time. Give it 3-4 hours, when Europe starts waking up, then you can double whatever has been given so far.

I also wouldn't be surprised if Notch donated the final amount if, in some bizarre scenario, they weren't going to meet it.

Average donation, as of hitting $143K - $50.12/person.

Smashbox
09-02-2012, 04:44 AM
Double Fine is so awesome and they seem to have really been working hard this last year to get profitable. I really like the st they do, but it's surprising to see them put up a kick starter page.


Pledge $150,000 or more:
Tim Schafer (that’s me) will give last four remaining Triangle Boxed Day of the Tentacles, in original shrink-wrap.” (Limit of 1) (Holy crap, what am I thinking? I only have four of those!)

Now put Iron Brigade out on PC already!

Ignorant Texan
09-02-2012, 04:50 AM
Considering that there has been more than 160k pledged in under two hours, I think it's a genius move.


EDIT:That should have read 3 hours. It looks like it will break 200k in under 4 hours.

Chevy
09-02-2012, 06:20 AM
Holy shit, that video is great. Tim Schafer is a hilarious man.

Moraven
09-02-2012, 07:41 AM
Looks like someone took the $10k.

MOKKA
09-02-2012, 07:45 AM
I need a credit card!

NecroKnight
09-02-2012, 08:14 AM
This looks rather interesting. I'm pretty sure they will reach they goal and much more.

Revisor
09-02-2012, 08:22 AM
Europe wakes up on the first day to find an unbelievable backing in excess of 300,000 USD!
And jumps in!

c-Row
09-02-2012, 08:27 AM
My money is somewhere among those $313k now. I feel good!

Williz
09-02-2012, 09:08 AM
OPs link 404s

Revisor
09-02-2012, 09:18 AM
Announcement
http://www.doublefine.com/news/comments/the_double_fine_adventure-adventure_is_here/

Kickstarter page
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/66710809/double-fine-adventure

R-F
09-02-2012, 10:18 AM
And now it's over the limit already. D:

TailSwallower
09-02-2012, 10:40 AM
And now it's over the limit already. D:

Really? I pledged an hour or two ago and I think they were still 70k under.

I'm not even a huge fan of Adventure games, but Day of the Tentacle, Sam & Max and Grim Fandango are all brilliant games, so giving them a shot to make another one is a good investment in my book.

apricotsoup
09-02-2012, 11:30 AM
This and now chocolate peanuts for charity have made for a very good morning :]

Skeletor68
09-02-2012, 12:02 PM
I hope other developers see this as a way to fund games that might not otherwise get there.

If someone starts one for a Dungeon Keeper 3 I'm not entirely sure what my donation limit would be!

Heister
09-02-2012, 01:55 PM
I can't wait to buy some $dlc for this game when it's finished.

ZIGS
09-02-2012, 02:19 PM
I can't wait to buy some $dlc for this game when it's finished.

Pretty sure this won't have any DLC

Chevy
09-02-2012, 02:35 PM
I can't wait to buy some $dlc for this game when it's finished.

That was random.

buemba
09-02-2012, 03:05 PM
I hope other developers see this as a way to fund games that might not otherwise get there.

If someone starts one for a Dungeon Keeper 3 I'm not entirely sure what my donation limit would be!

Me too, but unfortunately I think most of the sequels I'd really want (No One Lives Forever 3, a new Tex Murphy game, Tie Fighter 2) would cost a lot more than $400,000 to make, and I'm pretty sure no Kickstarter project broke the million dollars in pledges yet.

c-Row
09-02-2012, 03:09 PM
Me too, but unfortunately I think most of the sequels I'd really want (No One Lives Forever 3, a new Tex Murphy game, Tie Fighter 2) would cost a lot more than $400,000 to make, and I'm pretty sure no Kickstarter project broke the million dollars in pledges yet.

More than half a million dollars in less than 24 hours, and America is still in its pyjamas.

AlonePlusEasyTarget
09-02-2012, 03:34 PM
I can't wait to buy some $dlc for this game when it's finished.

DLC? In adventure games?

HERESY!

Ignorant Texan
09-02-2012, 03:59 PM
DLC? In adventure games?

HERESY!

I believe Heister's tongue is firmly planted in cheek.

And, 623kUSD in a little over 12 hours?!? They may break a million in under 24 hours.

fiddlesticks
09-02-2012, 05:24 PM
Considering I got Psychonauts for less than 5 bucks in a Steam sale I'd gladly donate 30$ to Double Fine just to make up for that. The fact that I now get a completely new game out of is just icing on the cake.

On a somewhat related note, anyone willing to give me 15'000$? I'd love to have dinner with Tim Schaefer and bore him with completely trivial details about the Monkey Island series.

buemba
09-02-2012, 07:22 PM
More than half a million dollars in less than 24 hours, and America is still in its pyjamas.

I've no doubt this will do extremely well, but given how expensive game development is nowdays I still don't think a mere 2-3 million would cover a new No One Lives Forever.

NecroKnight
09-02-2012, 08:49 PM
Holy shit, this is gonna get more than a million dollars and it's only been active for a day.

deano2099
09-02-2012, 09:27 PM
Remember this doesn't have to cover the entire cost of the project though, assuming Double Fine have some money in the bank. This sort of system can also be paired with other more traditional forms of fund raising.

Remember at the end of all this, they still get to sell the game and make a profit from it. Sure, they have to 'give away' 23 thousand copies, but I see it selling lots more than that if it's good.

fiddlesticks
09-02-2012, 11:56 PM
So, everyone who reads the RPS frontpage should already know this, but it looks like they managed to raise 1'000'000$ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/09/double-fine-kickstarter/) in 24 hours. Quite an accomplishment I'd say. At this rate the credits are going to be longer than the actual game.

Lambchops
10-02-2012, 01:02 AM
So, everyone who reads the RPS frontpage should already know this, but it looks like they managed to raise 1'000'000$ (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/09/double-fine-kickstarter/) in 24 hours. Quite an accomplishment I'd say. At this rate the credits are going to be longer than the actual game.

It will be lost in the comments on the Kickstarter page but I said this ages ago and suggested that they use some of the extra cash to produce an amazing song and dance routine to go with the end credits so that they are entertaining as they are of course going to be somewhat long!

Dave L.
10-02-2012, 05:23 AM
Remember at the end of all this, they still get to sell the game and make a profit from it. Sure, they have to 'give away' 23 thousand copies, but I see it selling lots more than that if it's good.
This is the thing that I'm going to be the most curious about. A big part of this is about them wanting to be completely transparent about the development process, and I'm wondering if this will extend to post-release. Are we going to get 2D Boy style cost/income breakdowns after the title is done?

At this point it seems more than fair to assume that any sales made to non-backers after the game is complete are going to be pure profit, and the big question is going to be how many sales that is, when all is said and done.

Skalpadda
10-02-2012, 08:19 AM
At this point it seems more than fair to assume that any sales made to non-backers after the game is complete are going to be pure profit, and the big question is going to be how many sales that is, when all is said and done.

Double Fine being rich enough to self fund projects could lead to amazing things.

hamster
10-02-2012, 09:48 AM
Why the hell do games cost so much to make these days? Just what the hell goes into them? Is it the graphics? Texture work? I would assume a game by Schafer would have something like PS2 graphics or Psychonaut graphics. Is it salaries? Why not utilize a commission-based system? I assume most small scale independent developers operate that way (ok, ok food to the table and all that but i assume they already have a reserve for personal expenses).

Lukasz
10-02-2012, 10:16 AM
Why the hell do games cost so much to make these days? Just what the hell goes into them? Is it the graphics? Texture work? I would assume a game by Schafer would have something like PS2 graphics or Psychonaut graphics. Is it salaries? Why not utilize a commission-based system? I assume most small scale independent developers operate that way (ok, ok food to the table and all that but i assume they already have a reserve for personal expenses).

Average salary = 40 000 dollars.
What employer has to pay for employee to receive that salary = around 70 000 (don't know USA tax rates but that seems a good guess based on what i know about Australian)

so a team of 10 people costs a company 700 000 dollars a year just in salaries. Rent, electricity, coffee, new hardware... more costs. Then goes various costs of programs necessary to develop the game, outsourcing, purchases of stock graphics and sound. Game requires marketing, to be shown on E3 which all costs money.


You think 400 000 dollars is a lot of money? It really really is not.

fiddlesticks
10-02-2012, 10:47 AM
Why the hell do games cost so much to make these days? Just what the hell goes into them?
Shamelessly stolen from RakeShark's comment on the actual RPS post, but this article (http://grumpygamer.com/4904226) written by Ron Gilbert himself explains in detail what goes into making a modern point-n-click adventure game.

hamster
10-02-2012, 11:09 AM
Average salary = 40 000 dollars.
What employer has to pay for employee to receive that salary = around 70 000 (don't know USA tax rates but that seems a good guess based on what i know about Australian)

so a team of 10 people costs a company 700 000 dollars a year just in salaries. Rent, electricity, coffee, new hardware... more costs. Then goes various costs of programs necessary to develop the game, outsourcing, purchases of stock graphics and sound. Game requires marketing, to be shown on E3 which all costs money.


You think 400 000 dollars is a lot of money? It really really is not.

Yes but as i said, let's not look at salary.

Lukasz
10-02-2012, 11:23 AM
Yes but as i said, let's not look at salary.
???
how can you not look at salary? it is part of the game cost. People don't often work for free.

Revisor
10-02-2012, 11:31 AM
Why do you want to ignore the salary?! The founders may and often probably do skip it or get a reduced salary for future profits but you have to pay everyone else involved especially if you want to draw in top talent.

It's not like you need heavy machinery and car fleets to create a game - most money will go to licenses and creative human work (aka salary).

hamster
10-02-2012, 12:01 PM
I'm thinking of one of those 4 man teams that only sell on steam/impulse etc.

Lukasz
10-02-2012, 12:03 PM
I'm thinking of one of those 4 man teams that only sell on steam/impulse etc.
You mean like terraria team?

they did not need 400K to make it so your point?

Chevy
10-02-2012, 02:49 PM
Yes but as i said, let's not look at salary.

But, you have to look at salary! As Ron Gilbert has said, they want to hire the best people for the job, and that requires providing a salary.

untruth
10-02-2012, 03:03 PM
I'm fascinated to see what you perceive to be a game cost excluding salary. Salary is the main cost over anything else. People take time, time if not volunteered costs money.

For Double Fine, or any company, every single minute a staff member isn't working on a funded project, is making them a loss. That money can be recuperated either by calling it training, which is in itself valuable, or by putting them on a paid project.

Maybe you're worried about the cost of materials in those new fangled wooden games they have now.

PeopleLikeFrank
10-02-2012, 03:03 PM
Why is it so difficult to get to the moon? Let's not look at gravity.

Or, to be slightly less snarky: tiny teams can make games like Terraria or Minecraft, where most of the gameworld is procedurally generated. Dwarf Fortress is possible because it has no graphics to speak of and hardly an interface.

Anything where the majority of the game is manually created takes a lot of developer time. Fancy graphics and sound take more time. That time is necessary to pay people for. You'll always see a tradeoff between the level of production value, scale of the game, and size of the team making it.

magnolia_fan
10-02-2012, 06:31 PM
I hope other developers see this as a way to fund games that might not otherwise get there.

If someone starts one for a Dungeon Keeper 3 I'm not entirely sure what my donation limit would be!

You mean big developers I think? Because small/indies use crowdsourcing all the time, but sadly struggle to raise a million times *less* money than what Double Fine will surely end up raising.

magnolia_fan
10-02-2012, 06:37 PM
I'm thinking of one of those 4 man teams that only sell on steam/impulse etc.

Double Fine is a big studio with a lot of people.
Indies are 1-5 men teams working from our homes.
Both need to pay bills and eat, but while indies can "adjust" to cut living costs, you can't tell your 100 employees "hey look, we want to keep costs down so we're cutting your salaries by half"

You're comparing apples to oranges here.

And if you look at their video you'll see a part where Tim says "we need 100K to make the game and 300K for marketing" (I think???) so in a way, for a big studio, they were trying to produce it on the cheap.

Now when you speak of games with budgets of millions upon millions, the closest thing I can compare it to are movies, where your voice acting is done by top actors and whatever, and you attach people to your projects because that makes them more attractive, in one way or another...

Chevy
10-02-2012, 06:46 PM
And if you look at their video you'll see a part where Tim says "we need 100K to make the game and 300K for marketing" (I think???) so in a way, for a big studio, they were trying to produce it on the cheap.

He said 300k to make the game, 100k to make the documentary.

hamster
10-02-2012, 07:34 PM
Well I hear Machinarium was made by one guy. I'm just extrapolating from there.

I am also thinking of those arcade brawlers like Tekken, Street Fighter etc. How much would a 2d version cost to make?

magnolia_fan
10-02-2012, 07:49 PM
He said 300k to make the game, 100k to make the documentary.

Thanks, was doing many things while watching the video so I got the sums in reverse :P


Well I hear Machinarium was made by one guy. I'm just extrapolating from there.

I am also thinking of those arcade brawlers like Tekken, Street Fighter etc. How much would a 2d version cost to make?

Somehow your extrapolation didn't consider the fact that, as I just said, indies cut corners to make games possible, while big studios don't/can't. You're still comparing small indies with a big company like DF. It's like wondering why LA Noire took 7 years to make with 100s of poeple while *some indie game* took 8 months and 3 people to make...

Skalpadda
10-02-2012, 07:50 PM
Well I hear Machinarium was made by one guy.

It wasn't.

Wooly Wugga Wugga
10-02-2012, 08:06 PM
I see the donations are starting to peter out.

Any predeictions as to what the total is going to be?

I say 3.2 million.

BenWah
10-02-2012, 09:57 PM
I really wish they had this fundraising success for psychonauts 2 instead of this adventure game.
I like adventure games but psychonauts was so brilliant.
By the way you should buy and play it now

http://i.imgur.com/LFspv.jpg

Kadayi
10-02-2012, 11:23 PM
http://i.imgur.com/LFspv.jpg

*chortles* 10 char

mikebiggs
11-02-2012, 12:46 AM
What I'd be interested to see is whether the inherant lost sales from this kind of funding, as everyone who funded will get it for free, will have a knock-on effect on the profits. I mean, surely a large proportion of the people who would be interested in the game(not including the sales-hounds) will be involved in the funding before the end of this drive. If each sale is in fact pure profit as some have mentioned then I guess it doesn't matter too much if they sell 1,000 or 100,000; they will still have made they game they want to make and a little bit of money on the side. What kind of market is there for games like this these days, and will they make a base number of sales purely for being a big name(genre be damned)?

But what if they were only planning on funding half the game with kick-starter and the rest was coming from their own capital, after all $300,000 over 7 months(assuming they haven't started already which is possible, and they finish in october, unlikely) probably isn't out of the realms of possibility for a decent sized studio. In which case they still need to make a decent amount of sales to make some kind of money.

And then if you take into account the pay structure schafer and the like which may well be largely sourced from profit as apposed to a fixed wage and they need to make even more profit in order for this to be a financially viable solution.

I'm not trying to make a feacal evacuation all over this little shindig, I'm actually ridiculously happy and excited for what this might mean for creativity in the wider gaming world. Death to the evil corporation overlords and all that :)

I simply wonder whether this is all roses and unicorns or if there are downsides to it. Am I just being a pessimist? Am a just plain wrong in my numbers? I kinda hope so!

That being said they definately have my sale when it releases as I'm stone broke at the moment so I can't join in the kickstarting glee :(

Skalpadda
11-02-2012, 01:26 AM
@mikebiggs

This seems like a very small project even for a mid-sized company like Double Fine so I doubt anyone is betting their wages on it. Unless they drastically expand their original plan I also don't see any reason to think they'd need to put any of their own capital down to complete it, considering they'll probably have at least 4-5 times their initial funding goal once the Kickstarter project ends.

deano2099
11-02-2012, 07:15 PM
Interestingly given that it's easy to see this as an advance pre-order (ugh) for the game, it's telling that 24k people put in $15, but a full 15k put in the $30 which only gets you a HD download of the documentary over the $15 package. I'd have expected it to be far more biased towards the $15 price...

Miker
16-02-2012, 12:27 AM
First update here: http://youtu.be/TFKwplDBmgg. The game will be on PC, Mac, Linux, iOS, and Android, with closed beta being distributed through Steam. It'll also be available DRM-free to backers, which is a nice touch.

Keep
16-02-2012, 12:44 AM
What I'd be interested to see is whether the inherant lost sales from this kind of funding, as everyone who funded will get it for free, will have a knock-on effect on the profits.

Well, tbh, all Kickstarter does is move the loss-recouping part o a creative project from the end of the job (when it goes on sale) to the beginning. If this game had been funded by some big producers, Double Fine would likely owe them the cost of getting it made once it was finished.

I don't think profits are getting eaten into by this way of doing things.

In fact, if anything, I'd imagine the Kickstarter method will work better. Word of mouth, by far and away, is the best marketing method there is. What happens by charging upfront is, the game gets a word-of-mouth campaign on the announcement day AND on release day (assuming it's good that is).

Double Fine have a small army of people prepped and ready to spread the word once this game comes out. That's bound to pay off?

The JG Man
25-02-2012, 12:30 AM
2player productions has released a video, made before the Kickstarter project, of a 35 minute conversation between Tim Schafer and Ron Gilbert. It's rather interesting. I suggest giving it a watch. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=re_LWmRJK-g)

sopabuena
25-02-2012, 02:50 AM
Very interesting. Gilbert appears to be pretty reluctant to have any sort of modern approach to the genre. He also keeps mentioning Monkey Island everytime. To be sincere, his involment doesn't mean much to me (actually I'm kinda worried). The first Monkey Island is a great game but I don't find it that funny, it's kind of cheesy. The second one is a masterpice, there are some goofy moments, but the overall darker theme and atmosphere make up for those, and it has some really funny lines. But with MI2 Tim Schafer and Dave Grossman had a bigger imput too.
Schafer's games as a lead dessigners are perfectly written. You will most certainly laugh out loud during DOTT, Grim Fandango, Psychonauts and even in Full Throttle or Brutal Legend. The characters are interesting and not just there so the protagonist can say some witty lines.
If you ever read Ron Gilbert's blog and Twitter... well,I just don't enjoy his humour. And I don't share his views on modern gaming either. Not considering L.A. Noire as a modern adventure game is pretty narrow minded.

Good news: the guy doing the handpainted art, Nathan Stapley (http://nathanstapley.blogspot.com/) seems really cool.

Wizardry
25-02-2012, 03:24 AM
Very interesting. Gilbert appears to be pretty reluctant to have any sort of modern approach to the genre. He also keeps mentioning Monkey Island everytime. To be sincere, his involment doesn't mean much to me (actually I'm kinda worried). The first Monkey Island is a great game but I don't find it that funny, it's kind of cheesy. The second one is a masterpice, there are some goofy moments, but the overall darker theme and atmosphere make up for those, and it has some really funny lines. But with MI2 Tim Schafer and Dave Grossman had a bigger imput too.
Weird. I think the complete opposite of this, other than the bit about Monkey Island 2 being better than 1, because it is.

sopabuena
25-02-2012, 03:48 AM
What's the opposite, that Ron is the talented one?

Wizardry
25-02-2012, 04:25 AM
What's the opposite, that Ron is the talented one?
That his involvement is more than welcome. That what a "modern approach" actually is is open to interpretation. That I prefer Gilbert's more puzzle focused approach to design as he seems a lot more analytical than Schafer. He seems to be more aware of what works and what doesn't in terms of puzzle design than Schafer.

I also agree with him that programmers make the best designers. But I've been saying that for a couple of decades anyway.

Tikey
25-02-2012, 04:49 AM
Tim Schafer should have his own tv show. It doesn't even have to be about anything, just him talking and making jokes.

sopabuena
25-02-2012, 10:10 AM
That I prefer Gilbert's more puzzle focused approach to design as he seems a lot more analytical than Schafer. He seems to be more aware of what works and what doesn't in terms of puzzle design than Schafer.

I do agree with you here. He does know what works for a classic point & click adventure game. I can't believe his favourite puzzle is the one with the grog melting the mugs, I hate timed puzzles.
My point is that maybe ditching some of the genre conventions will result in a more refreshing game, with more room to innovation, and not just an exercice in the lost of art of p&c adventure games.

They seemed to avoid talking about other games, I was interested in their opion on new adventure games, and even games like Portal 2. I don't know why Ron kept bringing Limbo up, the only interesting puzzles in that game are near the end and there is not much story. It was intentionally left very vague so players could come up with their own interpretation, but to me it seemed like an easy way out.