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Lobotomist
11-06-2011, 11:22 AM
Just before the bashing starts. I want to tell you one thing: The game is actually pretty fun.

Its nothing like the poor demo. I dont know what they were thinking.

And its not FarCry 3 , Stalker, Battlefield 3

This is the game they worked on for 12 years. And never deemed it good enough for release.

It runs on old engine and sports antiquated gameplay.

Gearbox bought it and said, lets release it, it can not be that bad.


So, dont expect what its not.

If it came 5 years ago it might be amazing. Now it just feels like 5 year old game that you still didnt play.

But its a damn fun game ;)

soldant
11-06-2011, 12:10 PM
Fun fact: the SP portion was actually finished in late 2009/early 2010. Well the content was finished in 2009 and it was "locked in" in early 2010. No wonder parts look a bit dated, some in-game assets look very similar to things from screenshots in 2008. In any event the game was NEVER going to live up to the hype. Neither did STALKER on release.

I had fun. It feels dated, it should have been released a few years ago when it was done, and I can't find a good reason why they delayed it for so friggin' long. But I don't care.

Basilicus
11-06-2011, 05:40 PM
Sounds like it'll be well worth the $10 I pay for it in 6-8 months.

SirKicksalot
11-06-2011, 05:50 PM
Looks like they had to scrap a lot of content that was in the leaked design documents. A shame, but I understand the decision.
Maybe Gearbox will resume work on Duke Begins now that DNF is out.

Alez
11-06-2011, 09:35 PM
And its not FarCry 3 , Stalker, Battlefield 3
I don't think you should say "it's not farcry, stalker or battlefield" since those games are completely different.
It's like saying GTA is no AssCreed but it's still fun. It's a weird comparison.

Did you play bulletstorm, or...Serious Sam(the same old game but with updated graphics that came out a little while ago)? I find Duke the least fun out of them by far. I really recommend Bulletstorm over Duke.

soldant
12-06-2011, 01:05 AM
Did you play bulletstorm, or...Serious Sam(the same old game but with updated graphics that came out a little while ago)?
I did, and Duke is closer to Serious Sam than Bulletstorm. Serious Sam is just a large number of enemies in a big arena. Bulletstorm has a cocky antihero for a character, but Bulletstorm's only good thing is the different ways to kill people. What made DNF fun for me was Duke.

But I'm a fan of DN3D so that's why I enjoyed it.

sk2k
12-06-2011, 06:33 AM
..... What made DNF fun for me was Duke.

But I'm a fan of DN3D so that's why I enjoyed it.

I'm also a DN3D fan. That's why i not enjoyed DNF. :( DNF is a mediocre typical FPS with all the "standard-modern-fps-elements" i hate. Duke alone does not make it more enjoyable.

I agree with Alez. I had more fun in Bulletstorm then in DNF.

Dirtyboy
12-06-2011, 07:13 AM
I think Gearbox salvaged what they could out of it. The sales will be good regardless of the poor reviews, and if they do a proper sequel it should be much better.

Faceless
12-06-2011, 07:33 AM
It doesn't even feel like an antiquated relic of the bygone days. If it felt like a 5+ year old game, it wouldn't have regenerating health or a limit of two weapons. The only 5+ year old touches to it are the engine and the jokes. Instead of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM), you're meant to backtrack through painfully small levels while listening to Duke make the same jokes he did in DN3D, clearing one area at a time before you can proceed.

Lobotomist
12-06-2011, 08:33 AM
I don't think you should say "it's not farcry, stalker or battlefield" since those games are completely different.
It's like saying GTA is no AssCreed but it's still fun. It's a weird comparison.

Did you play bulletstorm, or...Serious Sam(the same old game but with updated graphics that came out a little while ago)? I find Duke the least fun out of them by far. I really recommend Bulletstorm over Duke.

If you getting into specifics than Duke Nukem is nothing like Serious Sam. Serious Sam is a game in vein of Doom. Where enemies blindly charge towards you. Duke is game with prescripted enemy behavior and placement.

As for Bulletstorm. Are you kidding ?! That was probably the most progressive "on rails" shooter of 2011. And you are comparing it with 5+ old game.

Compared to anything new its closest to Wolfenstein(reboot) and its actually better against that game. Although its not that big accomplishment.

But I fully agree. If Gearbox was smart. They would take the DNF they got from 3DR , and restore the old school features. Instead of trying to make it "next-gen"

BobsLawnService
12-06-2011, 08:59 AM
Are there any hacks that allow you to carry more than two weapons at once yet?

soldant
12-06-2011, 11:21 AM
They would take the DNF they got from 3DR , and restore the old school features. Instead of trying to make it "next-gen"
It would have been in development even longer. A lot of the ridiculous things that ended up in the game can be traced back to 3D Realms. It really makes me wonder what they were thinking.

Incidentally if you want to turn off depth of field without removing the other visual effects, Flawless Widescreen (the program) can do this for you. The horrific DoF is used to hide some old assets but IMO the DoF makes things look far, far worse.

Lobotomist
12-06-2011, 11:49 AM
Ah , yes. I wondered how to turn it off. Thanks :)

Alez
12-06-2011, 01:13 PM
As for Bulletstorm. Are you kidding ?! That was probably the most progressive "on rails" shooter of 2011. And you are comparing it with 5+ old game.

Compared to anything new its closest to Wolfenstein(reboot) and its actually better against that game. Although its not that big accomplishment.

This game is closest to wolfenstein reboot? Now are you kidding?
This is Bulletstorm with Half Life 2 puzzles(the ones when we were still impressed with placing heavy shit on something to make it go down).
Hell, you even have a section where you remote control something. Duke having a tiny little car while in Bulletstorm you have waggleton p. tallylicker (may he rest in peace).

What does the "on rails" thing have to do with anything? It's exactly as linear as Duke.
Comparing to what 5+ year old game? Duke came out now.
Really, i read your post plenty of times and it makes me confused in the brains.

And god, did these 2 games need to remove the weapon and ammo limit. Anyone had anything other than shotgun and machinegun in Duke? I noticed i ran outta ammo way too fast on all the nice toys so i had to rely on the boring ones.

Lobotomist
12-06-2011, 01:37 PM
Bah. You are just arguing about pointless stuff.
Sure it can not be compared to Wolfenstein or Bulletstorm. Or anything.
Just as you can not say apple is closest to orange.

But its beside the point.
And point being : Duke is 5 year old game , dusted off and published today.

It would be a decent game 5 years ago (but not the best) . Today is just outdated.

But if you expected anything else.(and sounds like you did, judging from anger in your post)
Well... than my friend, the joke is on you.

Alez
12-06-2011, 01:48 PM
Ohh ok, thanks for clearing that up.

Yeah i did expect something else. I wanted to see if the developers were just really bad at their job or they tried to do something so big that it took them too much time. But no, from start to finish i did not see a thing that gave me the impression that this game couldn't have been made in at most 2 years.

deano2099
12-06-2011, 02:21 PM
It would be a decent game 5 years ago (but not the best) . Today is just outdated.

But if you expected anything else.(and sounds like you did, judging from anger in your post)
Well... than my friend, the joke is on you.

Which is why it was released at a budget price to reflect that. No wait...

outoffeelinsobad
12-06-2011, 08:26 PM
I just want them to release the DN3D campaign maps as DLC.

sabrage
12-06-2011, 08:54 PM
Just out of curiosity, how many of you played this alone in your room? My experience with Duke was always going to friend's houses and switching off every death or level or whatever, so I guess that for me it's a very social game. As such, I plan on kicking back with some cheap beer and some good friends and playing this exactly like I did the original, and I don't know how that could not be fun.

Faceless
13-06-2011, 07:35 AM
Almost every leisure activity is more enjoyable with friends, that is in the very nature of socialising. Hell, I managed to brave through two months of WoW because I played with friends. I don't think that makes the game social by design, but rather the equivalent of a poorly made low budget horror film you wouldn't and shouldn't endure alone.

Mohorovicic
13-06-2011, 08:31 AM
I really recommend Bulletstorm over Duke.

I'd go as far as saying that Bulletstorm is closer to DN3D than DNF will ever be.

The Question
13-06-2011, 12:59 PM
I'm rather enjoying DNF. The single player was eight hours of (mostly) fun, which is all I really wanted, and now I'm trying to get into the multiplayer (by way of a shoddy server browser that only seems to see about a dozen games going on in the world). It's clearly not the game it was planned to be, and it constantly feels like there are bits missing - you only really visit three places - and it makes me wonder what happened to the rest of the game. Where's the motorbike chase? What happened to the female soldier?

The most annoying thing about the game has to be the way people don't look at you when they're talking to you. Having the president yell at the empty space two feet to my left was quite disconcerting.

Quater
13-06-2011, 05:58 PM
I'd go as far as saying that Bulletstorm is closer to DN3D than DNF will ever be.

Oh, come on. That is absolute nonsense. Have you ever played Duke Nukem 3D? It was absolutely nothing like Bulletstorm or Serious Sam. At no point did it funnel waves of furious enemies at you in a straight line to be mindlessly mowed down.

Duke3D was based around its level design - huge, sprawling, non-linear open levels with no signposting or blinkered paths. It was about exploration, primarily - you had to figure out where the exit was and how to access it, usually by finding switches and keycards hidden in absurdly out-of-the-way places you had no hope of finding unless you obsessively scoured every inch of the map, finding dozens of secret rooms and easter eggs in the process.

It's done my heart good to find that DNF preserves at least some of that design ethic - only a fraction, mind, and most of the levels are a little disappointingly linear, but compared to the CoDs, Halos and indeed Bulletstorms of the modern era (all of which literally may as well be on rails for all the freedom and openness given to the player), DNF is a breath of that good old-fashioned fresh air. Every level is different, littered with interactive curios, every puzzle is left to the player to figure out for themselves, and exploration is rewarded with caches of weapons, items and easter eggs. THAT is what the modern shooters have been missing for so long, and what Duke is doing his part to revive, even in a small way.

I really hope Gearbox keeps going in that direction for the inevitable sequel. Bigger levels, more brain-twisting level design, more interactivity, more hidden stuff. If Duke turns into just another straight-line monster funnel like Bulletstorm, THAT will be the death of him.

Mohorovicic
13-06-2011, 07:10 PM
I meant in the general theme and attitude of the game. Almost everything in DNF seems forced and on the "trying too hard" side.

Alez
13-06-2011, 07:30 PM
I really hope Gearbox keeps going in that direction for the inevitable sequel. Bigger levels, more brain-twisting level design, more interactivity, more hidden stuff.
I just...what? More "brain-twisting level design"? Are you for serious?

The most intriguing thing to me isn't that someone would like Duke more than Bulletstorm(maybe they are really into pissing and throwing shit). But that someone that likes Duke doesn't like Bulletstorm.

Hunt0r
13-06-2011, 10:54 PM
Ok i thought the game was ok, not amazing and i really didnt play it for the graphics! I loved the orginal DN3D. If your a duke fan then this is a must but if your not steer clear, you wont get the humour or the beginning (which i know was corny but i did love lol), but this game could of done with dare i say it Health packs! it just didn't feel right without it! i really dunno why it just didn't! anyway to recap Duke for president? maybe next time!

Quater
14-06-2011, 12:49 AM
I just...what? More "brain-twisting level design"? Are you for serious?


More than what DNF wound up having, I mean. I meant to say that DNF retained just enough exploration and puzzle solving to remind me of what made D3D great, but is ultimately a bit underwhelming given its heritage. I want to see Gearbox moving further back toward the Duke3D approach for the inevitable next one. I didn't make that very clear, I realise.

I agree that Bulletstorm rather outdid Duke at his own game when it comes to ridiculous, absurdly brainless humour. DNF did make me chuckle in a couple of places but it was certainly more miss than hit in that regard - if the Development Timeline in the game's extras menu is to be believed, the actual script was hurriedly tacked on in late 2009 after the single-player campaign was finally content complete. The result being just about Duke-ish enough to retain a sense of the character, but as Mohorovicic said, missing the mark too much to stand out among the recent competition. But at least DNF has variation. It almost never makes you do the same thing twice, unlike Bulletstorm, in which if you've played it for 10 minutes you've literally seen everything you're going to be doing for the brief few hours of its length.

Ultimately I suppose my point is that it's not that DNF is all that great - I did have a blast playing it despite its messiness and general feeling of being halfway there. For all of its problems and shortcomings it's still the most fun I've had playing a shooter since probably HL2. What that really means is the bar has been set so low by the mindless, self-serious whack-a-mole gameplay of the CoDs, Gears and Halos of the world that I'm thrilled to have played a game this year that at least remembers what it was like when games were playful and inventive with the things they asked you to do.

Harlander
14-06-2011, 08:09 AM
the CoDs, Gears and Halos of the world

How does it compare to good [FPS] games? Portal, say, or Metro 2033, or Bioshock, or STALKER?

Alez
14-06-2011, 11:00 AM
What that really means is the bar has been set so low by the mindless, self-serious whack-a-mole gameplay of the CoDs, Gears and Halos of the world that I'm thrilled to have played a game this year that at least remembers what it was like when games were playful and inventive with the things they asked you to do.
Oh this i agree with. It's a very good thing Duke didn't copy the fucking horrible plague on gaming called "cover system" that turned about 2 thirds of any game with a gun into a whack-a-mole experience.

Mohorovicic
14-06-2011, 11:30 AM
Funny you say that, as DNF features health regen which pretty much forces you to take cover constantly.

Alez
14-06-2011, 11:45 AM
It makes you to take cover when you are hurt from time to time but it's not impossible to "run and gun" which i did for the most part. If there was a cover system involved, i would have died every time i tried to ignore it. For example in Mass Effect 2, as far as i can remember 99% of the combat is me sitting behind something and shooting over it.

The only parts where i really need cover was with those flying octopussies that throw barrels at me that took half my health in one hit. They tried to use regen health but to my surprise, i had problems finding cover and just had to fight my away before dying.

Bad Sector
14-06-2011, 02:29 PM
How does it compare to good [FPS] games? Portal, say, or Metro 2033, or Bioshock, or STALKER?

Portal isn't an FPS. But beyond that, it is better than DNF.
I haven't played Metro 2033 yet.
Bioshock... it's a draw. I like the writing of Bioshock but the game has some very boring parts. DNF's writing is awful but i can't say i was ever bored.
Much better than STALKER. But i don't like open world (or open-ish world) games and i always found STALKER very boring.

Keep in mind two things, however:
1. Those games are very different from each other and from DNF. They barely compare, except in the more abstract "how much fun you had" scale which is what i used.
2. What i like isn't universal so unless you have a similar taste to mine, my comparison won't be very helpful.

Harlander
14-06-2011, 02:46 PM
I guess a better comparison would be "is it as good as Duke Nukem 3D"?

And I'm getting a pretty heavy "no" vibe from the comments...

Lobotomist
14-06-2011, 04:46 PM
No. Its absolutely not.

I dont think nobody really expected it to be.



Actually comparing it to other games. I think its most similar to Prey

Bad Sector
15-06-2011, 09:23 AM
No. Also the game lasts little more than DN3D's first episode (shareware). Well, assuming you had to play DN3D for years and didn't rushed it, of course.

ColOfNature
21-06-2011, 12:47 AM
Notch: games journalist! (http://notch.tumblr.com/post/6736474534/duke-nukem-forever-review)

pauljeremiah
24-06-2011, 12:38 AM
I think Yahtzee (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3581-Duke-Nukem-Forever-for-real-this-time) sums it up best

Bad Sector
24-06-2011, 03:20 AM
That was a nice review, but as far as video reviews go, i liked TotalBiscuit's WTF is Duke Nukem Forever? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y5Yngipvz6M) and the 5 hours in followup (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q86vWgaLuwE) much better. He didn't really liked the game, but he took extra care to separate the facts and his personal opinion and it was mostly because of the latter that he disliked it. The parts he mentioned that he disliked were mostly the parts that i liked (or didn't notice) when i played the game. Since tastes vary i think that it is a better review because you can apply your own tastes to it and find out if you'll like the game or not.

SirKicksalot
24-06-2011, 05:11 AM
I'll pick up my Balls of Steel this morning. I made the mistake of replaying some Bulletstorm echoes earlier this night, goddamit that game is so good... I think I ruined my Duke experience now.

Alez
24-06-2011, 05:49 AM
I think Yahtzee (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3581-Duke-Nukem-Forever-for-real-this-time) sums it up best

Actually i've seen most of his videos and have to say, that's a very mediocre one. He did not say it best. I think Angry Joe (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MZJ4BiIEhAo&feature=channel_video_title) said it best, or if not that, has the best quality review so far. Better than TotalBiscuit i think.

SirKicksalot
25-06-2011, 04:47 AM
Yahtzee wrote a new story for DNF when 3D Realms was still trying to finish the game. Obviously it wasn't used, but it kinda puts his review(s) in a different perspective.

I'm four hours in. The game is OK, nowhere near turds like Legendary or whatever else it's sharing the Metacritic rating with. There are flashes of brilliance here and there... It feels like there's a fantastic game hidden underneath all the stuff that was basically put together with duct tape. It's certainly unusual in pacing and tonal shifts, and I can totally understand why people don't like it. Calling it action-adventure would define it better than just "shooter", because it tries very hard to change gear and throw new stuff at you. 3D Realms had fantastic ideas, but the execution is lacking.

Some scenes and dialogue are very... well, fucked up. 12 years of constant iteration must have short circuited some brains at 3D Realms, because they came up with some really nightmarish stuff. It just hits me like a brick sometimes.
The ideas here deserve a better game. Here's hoping the singleplayer DLC and what Gearbox is cooking will be that game.

By the way, if you check out the Steam achievement stats, it turns that most buyers actually play it.

ColOfNature
25-06-2011, 11:24 AM
Yahtzee wrote a new story for DNF when 3D Realms was still trying to finish the game. Obviously it wasn't used, but it kinda puts his review(s) in a different perspective.

Another one?

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/748-Duke-Nukem-Forever
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/zero-punctuation/3581-Duke-Nukem-Forever-for-real-this-time

Flappybat
26-06-2011, 12:13 AM
It doesn't even feel like an antiquated relic of the bygone days. If it felt like a 5+ year old game, it wouldn't have regenerating health or a limit of two weapons. The only 5+ year old touches to it are the engine and the jokes. Instead of this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDlB2P1leRM), you're meant to backtrack through painfully small levels while listening to Duke make the same jokes he did in DN3D, clearing one area at a time before you can proceed.

Both from Halo 2 which is from 2004, making regenerating health and a dual weapon limit 7 years old. Arguments about it being new or old are a bit fuzzy, there's a lack of stuff which was common from before the 2000s (non linear levels, secrets) but it also does a lot of things that fell out of favour a couple of years ago. In the end calling it a three-five year out of date game seems pretty fair.

SirKicksalot
26-06-2011, 03:47 AM
Finished it. It gets pretty shitty by the end. I don't regret playing it though.

Check out these leaked documents. (http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/46980/Duke-Nukem-Forever-Complete-Plot-Revealed-Redux) About a third of what's described there isn't in the shipped game, and I only recognized a couple of moments from the cut portions that were inserted in it. Basically there's enough material for an expansion, hell, even for a new game! Bombshell's levels sound like a blast, Titty City is suddenly more than a sorta funny respiro moment and the plot and ending are actually great. Perhaps if Bombshell was included people wouldn't complain about misogynism (ignoring the fact that Duke loves women).

As you may know, the demo contains files that detail some future DLC. 15 new singeplayer levels are supposed to ship as the 3rd DLC. Another clue is that it involves arm wrestiling, and that's an important feature in the cut levels listed above. Singing is also mentioned, and Jon St. John confirmed that future DLC will include it - another feature that was cut.

I hope all this comes true and we'll get to play what was cut in order to ship DNF. I even dare to dream of a "Director's Cut" that restores everything according to the original plans - be it official or fan made.

soldant
26-06-2011, 05:52 AM
I even dare to dream of a "Director's Cut" that restores everything according to the original plans - be it official or fan made.
Fan made? Maybe. Official? Probably not. I have no idea what 3D Realms were doing for all that time, but it's pretty obvious that the game had been fairly broken in terms of actual progression. It seems like they finally had to rip through the entire thing and carve out elements that would take too long. Half Life 2 went through the same process when Valve finally realised that they had a lot of content but no actual logical game, but in HL2's case Valve's plans worked, and in DNF it just feels dated.

I suppose that the remaining dev team that finished the SP game (finalised in 2009 or something) did what they could with what they had. Whatever the devs did, it was never going to be awesome on release no matter which way you look at it. Also it's easy to say that things sound great on paper, but that doesn't always translate to fun gameplay.

Icarus
26-06-2011, 10:15 AM
Wow. That leaked outline actually sounds pretty great.

SirKicksalot
07-07-2011, 11:53 PM
The DNF box quote is from News of The World. "Atomic Awesomeness!"
I'm sure someone smarter than me can point out a certain irony in this.