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Nalano
15-02-2012, 01:46 AM
Press Space to dodge, roll, run, take cover, vault, leap, use and talk. There's context-sensitive, but damn.

Mass Effect 3 kinda reminds me of Mirror's Edge, where there's one button for everything that has to do with up and another for everything that has to do with down.

dimaya
15-02-2012, 02:10 AM
its easier that way? i think?? :))

soldant
15-02-2012, 02:18 AM
To be fair though, I don't see a clear benefit in having 10 different buttons just for the sake of it. Combining things like "USE" and "TALK" isn't a bad idea.

Downloading the demo now, but whatever happens I want to see the end of the series.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 02:24 AM
To be fair though, I don't see a clear benefit in having 10 different buttons just for the sake of it. Combining things like "USE" and "TALK" isn't a bad idea.

Well, E is usually both Use and Talk, but it's kinda funny where, if you're not breathing down the guy's neck, you do a roll instead. Kinda like, "Hi, I'm hit the deck!"

vinraith
15-02-2012, 02:25 AM
To be fair though, I don't see a clear benefit in having 10 different buttons just for the sake of it. Combining things like "USE" and "TALK" isn't a bad idea.


"Use" and "talk" yes, but cover, leap, roll and run? Who's to say the "context selected" option is the one I actually want in that case?

More buttons for the sake of it is, indeed, a bad idea. More buttons to make sure I'm actually performing the action I want to be performing in the middle of a firefight, on the other hand, seems like a really GOOD idea.

soldant
15-02-2012, 02:30 AM
"Use" and "talk" yes, but cover, leap, roll and run? Who's to say the "context selected" option is the one I actually want in that case?

More buttons for the sake of it is, indeed, a bad idea. More buttons to make sure I'm actually performing the action I want to be performing in the middle of a firefight, on the other hand, seems like a really GOOD idea.
"Cover" and "Run" worked fine in Mass Effect 2. Roll is ridiculous, but cover and run shouldn't be an issue at all. Plenty of games get that one right, and worked fine when Talk/Use was also bound to the same key.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 02:32 AM
"Cover" and "Run" worked fine in Mass Effect 2. Roll is ridiculous, but cover and run shouldn't be an issue at all. Plenty of games get that one right, and worked fine when Talk/Use was also bound to the same key.

"Well, it's fine with A, B and C together, and with X, Y, and Z together, and with Theta and Epsilon together..." and so we lump it all...

vinraith
15-02-2012, 02:38 AM
"Cover" and "Run" worked fine in Mass Effect 2. Roll is ridiculous, but cover and run shouldn't be an issue at all. Plenty of games get that one right, and worked fine when Talk/Use was also bound to the same key.

I had several instances in ME2 of getting stuck to cover when I wanted to be moving around it or over it. This sounds like it will compound the problem substantially.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 02:41 AM
I had several instances in ME2 of getting stuck to cover when I wanted to be moving around it or over it. This sounds like it will compound the problem substantially.

I wasn't having an issue with sticky cover. I was having an issue with diving and rolling at random moments when I should've been doing my Shepard swagger. :P

sabrage
15-02-2012, 02:43 AM
Wait, ME3 leaked already? Someone really fucked up on that one.

trjp
15-02-2012, 02:59 AM
Could be worse, Kingdoms of Amalur's default keys were clearly chosen by an Octopus...

WASD to move - Space to Dodge - OK so far.

C to enter/leave stealth - not ideal but not disasterous.

X for Fate/Focus/Wotsit mode (hold it, don't just tap it - I just broke a finger!!)

Press F for the super Fate/Soul sucker doodah move (PRESS IT WITH WHAT - MY NOSE!!??")

It might be "one button combat" but it uses a lot of buttons for it! :)

Nalano
15-02-2012, 03:01 AM
Wait, ME3 leaked already? Someone really fucked up on that one.

The demo came out today.

vinraith
15-02-2012, 03:08 AM
OK, played the demo a bit. Awkward controls, wonky animations, virtually no conversation options... I'm not encouraged.

I want to see the end of that trilogy as much as the next person (if it IS the end of the trilogy, of course) but that demo's reinforced the need to wait for reviews and, almost certainly, a steep discount.

DarthBenedict
15-02-2012, 03:10 AM
Having 'Hide behind that cover' and 'Jump over it and get shot in the face' on the same key is a remarkably stupid idea.

Chevy
15-02-2012, 03:24 AM
virtually no conversation options...

I'm normally a pretty optimistic person, but christ, the lack of dialogue choices scared the crap out of me when I played the demo earlier.

I loved the potential in this series once, but they seem to have really gone in the wrong direction. It's probably a byproduct of including the all-action mode in the game, and that makes me cry.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 03:31 AM
I want to see the end of that trilogy as much as the next person (if it IS the end of the trilogy, of course) but that demo's reinforced the need to wait for reviews and, almost certainly, a steep discount.

Well, any substantive part of the talk would be spoilers, wouldn't it?

vinraith
15-02-2012, 04:02 AM
I'm normally a pretty optimistic person, but christ, the lack of dialogue choices scared the crap out of me when I played the demo earlier.

I loved the potential in this series once, but they seem to have really gone in the wrong direction. It's probably a byproduct of including the all-action mode in the game, and that makes me cry.

I maintain that the "dumb action game with no conversation choices" option being the default speaks volumes.

somini
15-02-2012, 04:17 AM
Yep. I was on the fence, but with this demo I'm definitively in the 'not buying even in a sale' camp. God, so many things ruined. The FOV is way too small, I nearly threw up. The textures are horrible, the controls...well, this thread.
Some god ideas return from the first game, but the rest is too bad. Ashley became a slut, but she always was a tomboy or something like that? Sod off, BioWare.
I guess it's back to ME1 for me then...

Nalano
15-02-2012, 04:18 AM
I maintain that the "dumb action game with no conversation choices" option being the default speaks volumes.

I don't see it that way. Your average ME and ME2 mission tends to go thus:



talk swagger talk talk exposition talk decision talky talk swagger NPC one-liner talktalktalk deploy shootshootshootshootshoot miniboss shootshootshootshootshoot one-liner shootshootshootshootshoot decision boss debrief talky talky swagger.



Bolded parts for what I believe the demo showed. And I believe that if it showed anything more, we'd have spoilers.

soldant
15-02-2012, 04:22 AM
Having 'Hide behind that cover' and 'Jump over it and get shot in the face' on the same key is a remarkably stupid idea.
It's not that bad, it works the same as it did in ME2, but the animations are a lot more fluid. The biggest problem is the roll, which makes it too easy to slip out of cover, and the game doesn't gain much by having it.


I think the limited dialogue in this part of the game reflects that it's the demo and has very strict sequences. The opening sequence of Mass Effect 1 and 2 weren't bristling with dialogue options either (1 had more than 2 though), but this is just supposed to be a demo of the game. The story aspect is supposed to be part of the full game. I'm not concerned at all. Also the 'action' thing isn't the default, it's just the one at the top of the list which runs "action, roleplaying, story". If the story didn't matter, there'd be no story option.

My biggest problem is the teeny-tiny UI. I'm not a fan of UIs that look like bulky mess but this one went too far. Encouragingly weapon upgrades are back (no idea if you can use them in the demo, I did find a scope for the pistol), and squad points have a lot more options now (similar to Mass Effect with some things making a comeback, like Fitness). Also grenades return but they act like the power versions in Mass Effect 2.

Also is it just me or has Wrex's voice actor changed? At least the voice doesn't sound right to me.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 04:26 AM
Also is it just me or has Wrex's voice actor changed? At least the voice doesn't sound right to me.

Yeah, way too diplomatic. Like he doesn't chew gravel to breakfast. My Wrex eats his granite-o's, damnit.

DigitalSignalX
15-02-2012, 04:39 AM
Having no problem resisting the urge to play the demo now, thank you. I'll wait for the release, and conserve all my bitter disappointment at how much further dumbed down they've made this latest installment.

vinraith
15-02-2012, 04:46 AM
Ashley became a slut, but she always was a tomboy or something like that? Sod off, BioWare.


That too. Seriously, what the hell Bioware? If my character hadn't called her "Ashley" I'd have had no idea that's who that cleavage-flaunting glamor model was supposed to be.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 04:50 AM
That too. Seriously, what the hell Bioware? If my character hadn't called her "Ashley" I'd have had no idea that's who that cleavage-flaunting glamor model was supposed to be.

Well, the fans are probably equally responsible for that one. Remember the "pick your femshep" thing? We got lingerie model, lingerie model, lingerie model, pixie, badass, badass. Fans overwhelmingly picked lingerie model #2.

Which is yet another reason why nobody should listen to fans. :P

Subatomic
15-02-2012, 09:25 AM
The lack of dialogue choices in the demo doesn't concern me at all. As others said, those were two missions, one of which was the intro mission - remember how much dialogue choices you had in an average ME2 mission? Hint: It weren't that many, a lot of dialogue took place onboard the Normandy or in the quest hubs.

Can't say I like the re-design of Ashley though, and they apparently changed voiced actors for Wrex and Mordin (and not for the better).

And at least it's sufficiently difficult on Hardcore and can't be played blind (*cough* Amalur on "Hard"). That mech at the end kicked my ass several times before I took it down, though that may have had to do with the fact I played Adept and between me, Liara and Garrus, nobody had any anti-shield powers because I stupidly didn't invest in Garrus' Overload ability.
The new skill trees look good, there's a lot more choice than in ME2 to specialize, and argueably even more than in ME1 (where you could max out all abilities bar two or three at the end).

ColdSpiral
15-02-2012, 10:29 AM
For those of you worried about the simplified dialogue options, BioWare's confirmed (https://twitter.com/#%21/masseffect/status/169146460334596096)that they're going to be "expanded in the game". I'd say it's just cut back for download size, convenience and such.

Edit: And yes, seeing Ashley made me regret losing Kaidan in the first game. Those huge lips are terrifying. Hope she finds a nice corner on the Normandy - she's staying there.

somini
15-02-2012, 10:48 AM
For those of you worried about the simplified dialogue options, BioWare's confirmed (https://twitter.com/#%21/masseffect/status/169146460334596096)that they're going to be "expanded in the game". I'd say it's just cut back for download size, convenience and such.

I hope so, or the reviews will be horrible.
Oh the voices. They added a metallic effect to Garrus' voice or it was just me? He is not Legion, but BioWare just didn't care.

Subatomic
15-02-2012, 10:51 AM
I hope so, or the reviews will be horrible.
Oh the voices. They added a metallic effect to Garrus' voice or it was just me? He is not Legion, but BioWare just didn't care.

Garrus sounded fine to me, he and all other Turians always had some weird sound effect applied to their voices. Mordin and Wrex were far more noticable.

Bhazor
15-02-2012, 11:20 AM
Is it just me or has Ashley been Beyonce'd? I'm sure she was darker skinned in the first two games.

Personally I don't mind it going in to all action because so far Mass Effect 1 was much more like an RPG and I thought it was atrocious. Terrible combat, awful pacing, bad writing, dull story, flat characters, blatantly copy pasted environments yadda yadda. Mass Effect 2 was much more of a shooter and had ok combat, decent pacing, average writing , dull story, flat characters but with better connection to the story, less noticable copy pasting environments yadda yadda. So yeah, when you're a naff RPG its easy to become an above average shooter. Sand away every complexity I say and just make the film Bioware are clearly desperate to make.

Edit
Think I'm right
http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2011/308/7/0/cmdr__ashley_williams_by_carter_kaine-d4f4qjd.jpghttp://videogamesheaven.net/images/image-mass-effect-2-characters-ashley-williams.jpg

SanguineAngel
15-02-2012, 11:30 AM
I would disagree with you on every aspect apart from Combat, Bhazor. ME1 was, for my money, a MUCH better game but ME2 was easier to play - the combat by and large being the reason. I enjoyed the Characters in both games though.

This thread is raising my concern levels about ME3 rather a lot!!

TailSwallower
15-02-2012, 11:31 AM
Which is yet another reason why nobody should listen to fans. :P

And what the fuck was wrong with the default FemShep in the first place? She was already hot enough - hot in a I-could-totally-destroy-you-but-I'm-flirting-with-you-instead-so-you-better-dig-it kind of way.

Yeah, at this point I don't even care about where the story goes or how the trilogy ends. Will happily avoid it until it's ridiculo-cheap.

Bhazor
15-02-2012, 11:42 AM
I really don't think theres a defence for the blatant copy pasting. I mean those frickin caves.

The story and writing is all subjective of course but the Admiral constantly nagging you with piddling side quests ruined the pacing for me. The characters rarely had anything new to say and apart from the violent wookie frog I don't think any had a genuine stand out moment in the story. Most just sort of hung out on the ship or stood behind you silently.

The story itself? Meh, to me it suffers the same fate as DA because it decides to tell a story that is duller than what happened in the lore. Should we set a game in the great frog vs salamander war where the galaxy teetered on the brink of collapse and the fight was desperate enough to sanction biological war atrocities? No. Lets do precursors. Again. Hey, why don't we say they made humans evolve? I'm sure that's never been done before.

soldant
15-02-2012, 11:45 AM
and they apparently changed voiced actors for Wrex and Mordin (and not for the better).
Did Mordin's voice actor really changed? He sounded the same to me. Wrex is obviously not Wrex though.



This thread is raising my concern levels about ME3 rather a lot!!
Whatever happens people will bitch. Anything that changes is instantly worthy of complaining. Anything that doesn't change is also worth complaining about. This was just a basic demonstration that mostly showcases the upgraded graphics (I'm also assuming textures were compressed to reduce download size, it doesn't seem to be a very big demo) and combat. Combat is clearly the focus of the demo because it plays like a good amalgamation of ME2's combat (which was way better than the first one, especially since I didn't have 100 useless assault rifles to lug around) and ME1's skill tree and abilities (which ME2 made too simplistic).

Comments about story or dialogue choices are worthless, there isn't much of either in the demo because none of the action sequences of any of the games had a boatload of dialogue. Right now the worst criticisms are the roll action (which is ridiculous), Ashley's uber-makeover (which we knew about ages ago), and Wrex's voice.

westyfield
15-02-2012, 12:03 PM
they apparently changed voiced actors for Wrex and Mordin (and not for the better).

What the fuck?


They added a metallic effect to Garrus' voice or it was just me? He is not Legion, but BioWare just didn't care.

WHAT THE FUUUUUUCK? Garrus already sounds badass anyway. Hell, Brandon Keener isn't even putting it on! That's his normal voice!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9E6HPFbbSm4

fiddlesticks
15-02-2012, 12:24 PM
I haven't tried out the Mass Effect 3 demo yet, but the title of this thread instantly made me think of this little gem (http://www.notdoppler.com/superpressspacetowinactionrpg2009.php).

I wonder what axman13 would have to say about ME3.

Skalpadda
15-02-2012, 12:30 PM
Jesus, what the hell happened to Ashley? She looks like a plastic surgery nightmare :/

DaftPunk
15-02-2012, 01:34 PM
How can a game which is coming out in 2012,to look so bad,those textures are like something from previous gen..

Anthile
15-02-2012, 02:35 PM
I guess that's why demos are rare these days. People will bitch about every single thing and have no problems extrapolating the quality of the entire game from just a few minutes of playing.
Hell, just look at these forums. People don't need anything to completely dismiss a game.

Hirmetrium
15-02-2012, 02:42 PM
Because the game is painfully multiplatform by this point. Skyrim is an example of multiplatforming done right - mods for the PC, and in fact its such a ridiculous game that one of the consoles bit the dust when your save file was big enough *cough*PS3*cough*.

Bioware, on the other hand, make fuck all effort. There's apparently no controller support (and wasn't for the previous games), and if we get a high res textures pack officially released I'll count myself lucky.

Also, I for one think Ashley/Kaidan look considerably better. Ashley always looked half asleep in ME1 and didn't improve at all in ME2 (WHATS WRONG WITH YOUR FACE?!? [megapoints for those who get the reference]) while kaidan never looked quite right... now they both look considerably more human. Also, Ashley is just a testament to the fact Bioware cannot do hair.

Finally, to all of you who chose Ashley on Virmire - bro's before hoe's. Also, masseffectsaves.com is your friend (including a handy save edit tool!)

I'll buy the game on release just because I want the damn thing over and done with. The multiplayer seems to be a gimmick that will add some joy and a bit more longevity. Insert complaints about random loot bags here. At least the influence of DICE is felt in the guns - the assault rifle sounds really futuristically beefy.

vinraith
15-02-2012, 02:54 PM
I guess that's why demos are rare these days. People will bitch about every single thing and have no problems extrapolating the quality of the entire game from just a few minutes of playing.
Hell, just look at these forums. People don't need anything to completely dismiss a game.

The industry is literally drowning in inexpensive, entertaining games. We're very much in a position to be picky.

For my part, though, the demo has served to confirm my suspicions more than create new ones. I was all but certain this was going to be a bargain bucket purchase for me. I was very right.

c-Row
15-02-2012, 06:02 PM
Jesus, what the hell happened to Ashley? She looks like a plastic surgery nightmare :/

I left her to die in ME1, so I guess she has been... "reconstructed" by Cerberus. Or something.

Mihkel
15-02-2012, 06:04 PM
Well, the fans are probably equally responsible for that one. Remember the "pick your femshep" thing? We got lingerie model, lingerie model, lingerie model, pixie, badass, badass. Fans overwhelmingly picked lingerie model #2.

Which is yet another reason why nobody should listen to fans. :P

I would say that the problem is that Bioware has little to none of it's core fans left, only drones. I saw a lot of people losing their faith in Bio when DA2 came out and same with the SWTOR release. Mods/devs locked threads with constructive criticism, responded with hostility, started blaming weird shit on why the game wasn't as popular as they expected etc.

I like Mass Effect series and to be honest with all the trailers on ME3 it doesn't generate any interest in me, I simply don't care because Bioware have seriously lost their way in my opinion. I would still like to see the series finale but I'm really considering not buying it.

Nalano
15-02-2012, 06:05 PM
I would say that the problem is that Bioware has little to none of it's core fans left, only drones.

Dude, get over yourself.

GothicEmperor
15-02-2012, 06:53 PM
I'm already quite frustrated (bloody university) so I'm not playing the demo today, just to save that last bit of sanity. If it disappoints all the build up rage and frustration would cause me to defenestrate my computer and/or myself, and I still care enough to not want that.

At least I've still got the Old Republic. I quite like it, and the silly passive-aggressive comments on the Old Republic forums about the game's many supposed flaws give me some mirth in an otherwise bleak and maddening existence.

Drake Sigar
15-02-2012, 07:08 PM
I simply don't care because Bioware have seriously lost their way in my opinion. I would still like to see the series finale but I'm really considering not buying it.

It would be easy to blame EA at this point, so that's exactly what I'm going to do. :)

And I'm not 'considering not buying it', I'm just not buying it. Bioware aren't my horse anymore. That would be Obsidian.

Spider Jerusalem
15-02-2012, 07:11 PM
k, so, i played the demo. just the mp bits. i have to agree that using space for everything movement related (besides the direction keys) is awful.

when i want to sprint, i stick to cover. when i want to roll, i'm sprinting. it makes everything feel really clunky and out of my control. do not like.

vinraith
15-02-2012, 09:49 PM
Am I misremembering that, in earlier ME games, it was not necessarily to hit the mouse button for each individual round of ordinance you wanted to fire out of a pistol? As much as the resources scanning in ME2, that's going to drive my tendonitis freaking crazy.

Subatomic
15-02-2012, 11:11 PM
Am I misremembering that, in earlier ME games, it was not necessarily to hit the mouse button for each individual round of ordinance you wanted to fire out of a pistol? As much as the resources scanning in ME2, that's going to drive my tendonitis freaking crazy.

That's the same way Heavy Pistols worked in ME2, you should try the SMGs instead. Also, the assault rifle in the demo is the Mattock, the only assault rifle with one click-> one bullet functionality (the others are all automatic).

evilbobthebob
15-02-2012, 11:31 PM
To all those people saying that Wrex has a different voice actor, the IMDB page for ME3 says otherwise: www.imdb.com/title/tt1839558/fullcredits

Steven Barr is the same guy who has voiced Wrex throughout the series.

Otherwise I agree with most of the criticism with regards to controls and graphics, neither of which are better than ME2. The shooting is still good, though I find the segmented health bars on enemies to be irritating because they make it difficult to tell if I am doing damage sometimes.

Anthile
15-02-2012, 11:49 PM
The Mattock assault rifle is originally from the ME2 Firepower DLC and is supposed to be a cross between a common assault rifle and a sniper rifle, which made it a great sidearm for all the classes who picked up assault rifle training midway through the game. It can reach the firing rate of the other assault rifles if you tap LMB quickly but you're most likely just wasting ammo that way.

vinraith
16-02-2012, 12:17 AM
That's the same way Heavy Pistols worked in ME2, you should try the SMGs instead. Also, the assault rifle in the demo is the Mattock, the only assault rifle with one click-> one bullet functionality (the others are all automatic).

They were automatic in ME1 though, right? Now that you mention it I've only played through ME2 with a vanguard, so it was all shotty all the time there and I don't think I ever fired a pistol.

Heliocentric
16-02-2012, 12:22 AM
That's the same way Heavy Pistols worked in ME2, you should try the SMGs instead. Also, the assault rifle in the demo is the Mattock, the only assault rifle with one click-> one bullet functionality (the others are all automatic).

Pro tip: bind one direction of scroll on the mouse wheel to left click. One spin up and you have emptied a clip/overheated. Excellent in games which have instant refire on pistols.

vinraith
16-02-2012, 12:24 AM
Pro tip: bind one direction of scroll on the mouse wheel to left click. One spin up and you have emptied a clip/overheated. Excellent in games which have instant refire on pistols.

That's clever, so long as you don't need the scroll wheel for anything.

Nalano
16-02-2012, 12:25 AM
Pro tip: bind one direction of scroll on the mouse wheel to left click. One spin up and you have emptied a clip/overheated. Excellent in games which have instant refire on pistols.

Putting those counterstrike skills to good use!

westyfield
16-02-2012, 01:45 AM
Pro tip: bind one direction of scroll on the mouse wheel to left click. One spin up and you have emptied a clip/overheated. Excellent in games which have instant refire on pistols.

I remember the basts in CoD4 who would do that with the Barrett. Dodging ten .50 cal rounds flying at you in less than a second was not a fun time.

Nalano
16-02-2012, 01:49 AM
I remember the basts in CoD4 who would do that with the Barrett. Dodging ten .50 cal rounds flying at you in less than a second was not a fun time.

The Barrett fired as fast as you could hit the trigger?

In a hitscan game?

Jesus, I never knew the game was that borked.

magnolia_fan
17-02-2012, 05:16 AM
One button for everything works as long as it actually works...
As long as (somebody mentioned this already) you pressed because you wanted to take cover but the dude thought you were trying to jump. As long as the system realizes you're trying to grab something and not climb on top of it. As long as the system realizes you want to talk to your NPC companion, not shoot it...

Unfortunately in most games I've seen this is very hard to do, so stick with multiple buttons instead...