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HothMonster
08-03-2012, 04:33 AM
Can we get some coverage on RPS? I'd love to play these games and am without one of those small closed system computers every is all the rage about. [edit: sry PEBKAC when using rps search function, it was covered and I missed it when published]

Also sign this:
http://petitionbureau.org/DarkSoulsForPC (http://www.pcgamer.com/2012/01/13/dark-souls-pc-petition-at-nearly-70000-signatures-namco-listening/)

Kodeen
08-03-2012, 04:38 AM
Can we get some coverage on RPS?

There has been.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/tag/Dark-Souls/

Voon
08-03-2012, 05:20 AM
Can't find any official statements from Bamco regarding it, though. But there is a chance.

renhoelder
08-03-2012, 06:46 AM
Maybe they learned from Alan Wake´s success that ports can be made to work and make a profit. Granted Remedie had previous experience with Max Payne and Dark Souls devs would probably have to go outside for a port.
Anyway, would love if this game came out on PC

Shane
08-03-2012, 07:10 AM
Have there been any updates from Bandai-Namco?

Flint
08-03-2012, 07:16 AM
Have there been any updates from Bandai-Namco?
The representative who was the one communicating with the forumers posted in the old topic that spawned the petition a small while back, asking for the creator of the petition to contact him/Namco. Why, not told.

Bhazor
08-03-2012, 11:53 AM
At this point Dark Souls PC is unlikely. I just doubt that Namdai would want to go back to the game and do the work required for a decent conversion from scratch. Especially given how much work making a brand new multiplayer network would be.

Dark Souls 2 (or whatever it'll be called) on PC on the otherhand...

Namdrol
08-03-2012, 12:27 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that Hidetaka Miyazaki dose not want to see it released on PC, for 2 reasons.

--Part of the beauty of the game is that you cannot cheat, and that gameplay is wholly dictated by the game designer. A PC version would not only be cracked day 1, the gameplay would also be violated day 1.

--It cannot be tuned properly because of the varieties of hardware. Bolting on KB/M controls, or having people use anything other than the controllers the game designer used during development would alter the designer's vision.

The artist dictates to the audience, and if a videogame designer aspires to create videogame art, then artist must have control over the experience. And that can only happen on a console.

Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane because they wanted to see Susan Alexander's vagina? Or 8 1/2 because it was too hard to understand?

Jockie
08-03-2012, 12:34 PM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that Hidetaka Miyazaki dose not want to see it released on PC, for 2 reasons.

--Part of the beauty of the game is that you cannot cheat, and that gameplay is wholly dictated by the game designer. A PC version would not only be cracked day 1, the gameplay would also be violated day 1.

--It cannot be tuned properly because of the varieties of hardware. Bolting on KB/M controls, or having people use anything other than the controllers the game designer used during development would alter the designer's vision.

The artist dictates to the audience, and if a videogame designer aspires to create videogame art, then artist must have control over the experience. And that can only happen on a console.

Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane because they wanted to see Susan Alexander's vagina? Or 8 1/2 because it was too hard to understand?

Basically you're saying that they'd have to dumb down their game for a PC audience then?

(I'm joking)But... it does raise an interesting point about how the PC as an open platform can perhaps be bad for auteur-like game designers (not that many exist these days).

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 12:41 PM
Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane because they wanted to see Susan Alexander's vagina? Or 8 1/2 because it was too hard to understand?

Yeah, only videogames are nothing like films and are defined by interactivity.

Where did all this tripe come from anyway? Cheaters, seriously? Not only a minor part of players would do that, how would that even bother the developer? If he understands that games are systems and mechanics that the player interacts with, why he would so be against releasing his game on a more open platform just to deny some people the possibility to interact with the game the way they want (and spoiling it in the process, sure, but whatever).

And it's a third-person action game which is about exploring and combat with carefully timed attacks. How could that not be easily translated to keyboard and mouse? And without ruining 'the designer vision'?

Like, am I being trolled here?

Harlander
08-03-2012, 12:44 PM
I've seen this argument somewhere else. It didn't make a whole lot of sense to me there, either.

Seriously, "The developer sucks too much to make decent K+M controls" is a third of the argument?

(Wouldn't bother me too much if it had controller support, now I've got one...)

deano2099
08-03-2012, 12:48 PM
Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MKQ1fvcw6qY

Jockie
08-03-2012, 12:51 PM
It's not that difficult to understand that if a game is designed very specifically around a certain control input, that it doesn't always translate well to another.

Try playing fifa on a keyboard, or street fighter. You basically need analogue for DS. It's all very well saying 'most people own a controller' but everyone on this forum knows that if a game is released on PC without KB & M support, then there will people venting their outrage all over the developers face.

Oshada
08-03-2012, 01:11 PM
It could come up with something novel, like mouse movement. That's analogue movement, n'est-ce pas?

Heliocentric
08-03-2012, 01:16 PM
It's not that difficult to understand that if a game is designed very specifically around a certain control input, that it doesn't always translate well to another.

Try playing fifa on a keyboard, or street fighter. You basically need analogue for DS. It's all very well saying 'most people own a controller' but everyone on this forum knows that if a game is released on PC without KB & M support, then there will people venting their outrage all over the developers face.

I just wish resident evil 4 had an alternative to just kb as it controlled terribly. You needed a mod for mouse support, and it wasn't really adequate.

I'm at peace with some games being better with different control methods, what I don't like is lazy stuff like mandatory and ridiculous mouse acceleration, unbindable controls and forcing me to unplug my controller before my keyboard will work.

Jockie
08-03-2012, 01:20 PM
It could come up with something novel, like mouse movement. That's analogue movement, n'est-ce pas?

That would probably work for character movement, but then you would need a second mouse to move the camera at the same time!

frightlever
08-03-2012, 01:32 PM
Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane because they wanted to see Susan Alexander's vagina? Or 8 1/2 because it was too hard to understand?

They can. Video-editing is relatively simple these days. I assume you've seen the Star Wars episodes 1-3 that don't mention Jar Jar, or at least heard of them.

Berzee
08-03-2012, 01:43 PM
Similarly, these games (http://taleoftales.com/) have all been haxx0red to pieces, amirite?

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 01:47 PM
You basically need analogue for DS.

Why?
...........

Jockie
08-03-2012, 01:53 PM
Because it allows you to move directionally, at different speed, than all or nothing keyboard movements, thus it is more precise than wasd. Precision and movement and timing is basically 9/10ths of Dark Souls.

DaftPunk
08-03-2012, 01:59 PM
Yeah, only videogames are nothing like films and are defined by interactivity.

Where did all this tripe come from anyway? Cheaters, seriously? Not only a minor part of players would do that, how would that even bother the developer? If he understands that games are systems and mechanics that the player interacts with, why he would so be against releasing his game on a more open platform just to deny some people the possibility to interact with the game the way they want (and spoiling it in the process, sure, but whatever).

And it's a third-person action game which is about exploring and combat with carefully timed attacks. How could that not be easily translated to keyboard and mouse? And without ruining 'the designer vision'?

Like, am I being trolled here?


Dude really wrote biggest pile of shit i read in a while :D

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 02:01 PM
Because it allows you to move directionally, at different speed, than all or nothing keyboard movements, thus it is more precise than wasd. Precision and movement and timing is basically 9/10ths of Dark Souls.

Not buying it. This game does not need that level of precision which, if anything, is possible to produce only in non-combat situations, as a thumb is hardly an accurate tool in hectic scenarios. I can't really see how having basic eight directions, bind-able walking key and a very, very precise camera movement does not totally substitute a gamepad or even provide much more overall control over the character.

Jockie
08-03-2012, 02:07 PM
You need more than two movement speeds just for the trapped areas.

Anyways, have you actually played the game? I think you need to trust someone who has, that it is really unsuited to M&KB, in the same way a lot of console games are. I don't know why you find this so utterly incomprehensible.

Vexing Vision
08-03-2012, 02:19 PM
It's not that difficult to understand that if a game is designed very specifically around a certain control input, that it doesn't always translate well to another.

Try playing fifa on a keyboard, or street fighter.

Well.. when I was playing SF4 on the computer with keyboard, I did reasonably well with everything but Zangief and Guile. 360 degrees are too painful on arrow keys, everything else was a doozy.

And "Hmm, we don't want to sell you our games because we don't want your money because you might ruin the gameplay experience for yourself" is a pretty silly argument.

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 02:28 PM
You need more than two movement speeds just for the trapped areas.

Anyways, have you actually played the game? I think you need to trust someone who has, that it is really unsuited to M&KB, in the same way a lot of console games are. I don't know why you find this so utterly incomprehensible.

I just want you to back-up your initial argument.

If it's the movement speed now, have the third key. Or make it so that the player can toggle it with the mouse wheel by scrolling through different modes.

It's not a fighting game nor is it a football simulator. The control scheme can indeed be adapted to the strengths of keyboard and mouse. I don't know why you find this so utterly incomprehensible.

JackShandy
08-03-2012, 02:28 PM
Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane because they wanted to see Susan Alexander's vagina? Or 8 1/2 because it was too hard to understand?

Horrendous! It's certainly a good thing it's totally impossible for anyone to modify Citizen Kane to subvert the films original intent (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sswth_XcQwE).

EDIT: Oh, beaten. I should have read further before posting.

Berzee
08-03-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm not going to watch Citizen Kane until they port it to the PC.

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 02:36 PM
I'm not going to watch Citizen Kane until they port it to the PC.

Yeah, well, I hope you will enjoy your dumbed-down-vagina-riddled-altered-director's-vision version!

Jockie
08-03-2012, 02:42 PM
If it's the movement speed now, have the third key. Or make it so that the player can toggle it with the mouse wheel by scrolling through different modes.



Like, am I being trolled here?

Because having three buttons for movement speed modifier, in a game already overloaded with controls is a brilliant idea.

I just read the first post you made again about the cheaters and players being able to modify the game to their own playstyle. The major problem with that is that the game is designed to always be online, if you're cheating the game you're cheating other players too. The multi-player integration is acore part of the experience (not to be viewed as a seperate 'mode')

Jockie
08-03-2012, 02:58 PM
Well.. when I was playing SF4 on the computer with keyboard, I did reasonably well with everything but Zangief and Guile. 360 degrees are too painful on arrow keys, everything else was a doozy.

And "Hmm, we don't want to sell you our games because we don't want your money because you might ruin the gameplay experience for yourself" is a pretty silly argument.


I wasn't making the second arguement at all, I just think there are some pretty big problems with porting to do with the strange/innovative design decisions made by From Soft, such as always online integration, with interaction limited to in-game gestures (in the 360, if you try to use voice chat to speak to another player useing the party features on Dashboard, the game kicks you to main menu - that kind of thing is entirely impossible on PC), these things are clearly design features (or in some ways anti-features - you're not going to put it on the back of the box * Communication with other plays, limited to MINIMAL interaction!! *), so that the developer can present their vision in an uncompromising way, that simply isn't possible on PC.

That doesn't mean they shouldn't attempt it, but for people arguing it's a very simple thing to do and they should democratise an experience the designers have gone to a lot of effort to keep 'pure' (see above eg), simplifies things a bit.

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 03:08 PM
Like, am I being trolled here?

Because having three buttons for movement speed modifier, in a game already overloaded with controls is a brilliant idea.

I just read the first post you made again about the cheaters and players being able to modify the game to their own playstyle. The major problem with that is that the game is designed to always be online, if you're cheating the game you're cheating other players too. The multi-player integration is acore part of the experience (not to be viewed as a seperate 'mode')

Psh, so first you're saying that it's the controls (and failing to provide any reasonable argument in that regard - really, a mechanically simple third-person action game suddenly puts kb/m controls, that is, huge number of keys and a high level of precision, in am impasse), now it's the everlasting cheaters again. Is it entirely impossible to put an anti-cheat system in this primarily single-player game? There's a rigid control over who may join your game anyway, so if it checks a players level, couldn't it check the stats as well? Or, with enough thought put into it, couldn't the more comprehensive protection system be created?

Berzee
08-03-2012, 03:11 PM
interaction limited to in-game gestures...simply isn't possible on PC.

http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/08/igf-factor-2012-way/

Jockie
08-03-2012, 03:14 PM
Psh, so first you're saying that it's the controls (and failing to provide any reasonable argument in that regard - really, a mechanically simple third-person action game suddenly puts kb/m controls, that is, huge number of keys and a high level of precision, in am impasse), now it's the everlasting cheaters again. Is it entirely impossible to put an anti-cheat system in this primarily single-player game? There's a rigid control over who may join your game anyway, so if it checks a players level, couldn't it check the stats as well? Or, with enough thought put into it, couldn't the more comprehensive protection system be created?

Primarily single-player?

As I said above, the MP is a core part of the game - there are like 50 editorial articles (by professional journalists, not fan-scrubs like me) arguing that the MP in Dark Souls makes the whole damn game.

And yes the latter suggestion is possible, but it's not sounding much like a straightforward port at this point, it's sounding like something where the team who created the game would have to overhaul a lot of their core systems for a port they never planned to make.


http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/08/igf-factor-2012-way/

If you cared to you could circumvent any in game feature like that, using one of hundreds of third-party programmes on PC.

Kaira-
08-03-2012, 03:16 PM
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/02/08/igf-factor-2012-way/

WAY doesn't exclude Steam chat or Skype or whatchamacallits, now does it?

Berzee
08-03-2012, 03:20 PM
Don't forget
http://indiegames.com/2012/03/gdc_2012_how_journey_was_desig.html
for non-verbal communication.

Kaira -- no, but I'm talking about in-game means of communication, because anything outside of the game is hardly preventable no matter what platform you're playing on. Because...


If you cared to you could circumvent any in game feature like that, using one of hundreds of third-party programmes on PC.

Obviously. And you could also still use your PC to do that while you're playing Dark Souls on the console. But I grant you that it's entirely impossible to prevent people from using the built-in Chat on PC because PC doesn't have a singular built-in Chat to begin with. You would need to collaborate with your friends in real life in order to be able to communicate with them while playing, as opposed to consoles where it's easily set up and just as easily disabled. So unless Dark Souls has some special "banning-people-from-talking-in-real-life" mode that only works on consoles...

Anyhow, I just gave you two very good examples of PC games whose main draw in non-verbal communication and who haven't seemed to have their "artistic vision" mauled by rampaging Skypes. It's been a good day's work, and I am going to find some unsweetened vending machine tea.

(edit: It occurs to me, too, that "DUMPED TO MAIN MENU" hardly seems like an elegant and beautiful component of any artistic vision I've ever heard of, unless it's one of those meta-computer-games that plays tricks on you).

Jockie
08-03-2012, 03:29 PM
Don't forget
http://indiegames.com/2012/03/gdc_2012_how_journey_was_desig.html
for non-verbal communication.

Kaira -- no, but I'm talking about in-game means of communication, because anything outside of the game is hardly preventable no matter what platform you're playing on. Because...



Obviously. And you can still use your PC to do that while you're playing Dark Souls on the console. It's entirely impossible to prevent people from using the built-in Chat on PC because PC doesn't have the built-in Chat to begin with.

Yeah, but it's a damn sight easier to do on PC (not everyone is going to have their 360 right next a PC). The fact is they put a barrier in front of you, to stop you doing this to try and maintain this isolating atmospheric experience, and I'd imagine the vast majority of DS players go along with that on the consoleboxes. On Pc, because it's so much easier to circumvent and impossible (and undesirable) for the game to block off external applications, they might as well not even try.

Anyway, I'm coming off very negative here : I'd actually love to see DS on PC, it deserves a proper framerate and I'd be very interested to see if the PC community give us some kind of Arena mode (wishful thinking). I just don't think it's as simple a port as people are making out and for all the 'This game belongs on PC!' (because of it's difficulty), it's actually taken console limitations and turned them into strengths in ways that wouldn't necessarily translate.

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 03:30 PM
Primarily single-player?

As I said above, the MP is a core part of the game - there are like 50 editorial articles (by professional journalists, not fan-scrubs like me) arguing that the MP in Dark Souls makes the whole damn game.

So tell me, did you buy the game because you can occasionally play with and fight random people, or because of the freedom of exploration, interesting take on combat and a certain level of difficulty?


And yes the latter suggestion is possible, but it's not sounding much like a straightforward port at this point, it's sounding like something where the team who created the game would have to overhaul a lot of their core systems for a port they never planned to make.

I think it's okay when people want to pay for that?

Berzee
08-03-2012, 03:34 PM
Anyway, I'm coming off very negative here : I'd actually love to see DS on PC

And I am coming off very defensive for a game I don't even actually want to play ^__^ I'm just at work with no work to do...

I just think nonverbal communication games work fine on computers...and that not everyone or even a majority of people who play them choose to voluntarily spoil the fun.

Jockie
08-03-2012, 03:41 PM
So tell me, did you buy the game because you can occasionally play with and fight random people, or because of the freedom of exploration, interesting take on combat and a certain level of difficulty?



I think it's okay when people want to pay for that?

I'm not sure why you're attributing opinions to me, that I haven't gone close to expressing. Of course it's alright if people want to pay for that, but we were originally talking about the viability of the port occuring and the more difficulty in the port and the more parts of the game that simply don't translate, the less likely it becomes. If 80,000 signatures on a petiton = 80,000 sales (it doesn't, but that's what they have to gauge interest), then it probably isn't going to be worth their while (whereas if it were a straightforward port perhaps it would be.).

Reinhardt
08-03-2012, 05:13 PM
Here's my idea for a control scheme:

Light Attack: Tap Left Mouse
Heavy Attack: Hold Left Mouse
Shield Bash: Tap Right Mouse
Block: Hold Right Mouse
Dodge: Space
Sprint: Shift
Magic: E
Item: Q
Lock-on: Tab
Move: WASD

I'm probably forgetting something. It's true that it has a fairly complex control setup but I don't think it's impossible to make an efficient keyboard adaptation. We could even get rid of the lock on and just map the camera control to the mouse.

DaftPunk
08-03-2012, 05:36 PM
You realize we have now 5 mouse buttons,so its quite easy to put attack buttons on 1 and 2 button,then shield bash could be on middle one,block on button 4 etc. You get my point :D

Berzee
08-03-2012, 05:51 PM
You realize we have now 5 mouse buttons,so its quite easy to put attack buttons on 1 and 2 button,then shield bash could be on middle one,block on button 4 etc. You get my point :D

But if you're going to bank on people having a specific peripheral like a 5-button mouse...why not just revert to gamepad support?

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 05:51 PM
I'm not sure why you're attributing opinions to me, that I haven't gone close to expressing. Of course it's alright if people want to pay for that, but we were originally talking about the viability of the port occuring and the more difficulty in the port and the more parts of the game that simply don't translate, the less likely it becomes. If 80,000 signatures on a petiton = 80,000 sales (it doesn't, but that's what they have to gauge interest), then it probably isn't going to be worth their while (whereas if it were a straightforward port perhaps it would be.).

No one's attributing anything here. My point is that they wouldn't be releasing the game for free, so they might as well put effort in it. Realistically, seeing as it is an Xbox title, it would in all probability ship with GFWL, mimicking the functionality of Xbox Live. That wouldn't require any changes of the multiplayer portion to the game, and plenty of people would be happy with just that.

Jockie
08-03-2012, 05:54 PM
No one's attributing anything here. My point is that they wouldn't be releasing the game for free, so they might as well put effort in it. Realistically, seeing as it is an Xbox title, it would in all probability ship with GFWL, mimicking the functionality of Xbox Live. That wouldn't require any changes of the multiplayer portion to the game, and plenty of people would be happy with just that.

I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone on the RPS forums even remotely happy with a game using GFWL!

Bobtree
08-03-2012, 06:00 PM
I have to agree that Dark Souls is not really suitable for a PC port. I liked it enough to play 160 hours and collect the platinum trophy (plat Demon's Souls too) and waste a lot of time speculating about unknown uses of the pendant and possible inaccessible hidden areas (the game isn't that thoroughly detailed unfortunately). The game mechanics are so tightly wrapped around console gamepads that it would take a serious redesign and have very different feeling combat as a kb/m PC game, and coordination, trading, cheating, and voice chat would all undermine its design if it were on PC. I also think it's much less difficult than Demon's Souls overall, and somewhat overrated in comparison. Hopefully more developers will learn from their always-on asynchronous coop/antagonist multiplayer model, and create successful variations on it.

From Software has developed dozens of titles, and only one has a PC port (Ninja Blade). I'd like to see From games on PC in the future, and am on the fence about Armored Core V coming in a couple weeks, but they're a small, niche, and botique developer who's success has depended on their narrow focus. They'd have to make a pretty big gamble to leave that comfort zone.

A western PC release in the Monster Hunter franchise is a much more viable thing to petition for, but I doubt Capcom has dismissed it out of hand without doing serious research first, so don't hold your breath.

If you're really dying to play something in this vein on PC right now, I'd recommend La-Mulana. Be warned that it is very tough, unapologetically retro, epically long, and I needed 80+ hours, plenty of walkthrough help, and copious note taking to play through it. Incredible game, but it's not for everyone.

Doesn'tmeananything
08-03-2012, 06:05 PM
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone on the RPS forums even remotely happy with a game using GFWL!

Now ask them if they want to have the game on PC or not. I mean, it's a bit of a niche title, so all the devotees would rather tolerate GFWL than have no game at all. And it's not like this is a highly-competitive game (e.g. DoW2) that ideally presupposes a very solid multiplayer framework. Dead Rising 2 and Fable III, both with GFWL, worked fine, and their multiplayer was basically the same as in Dark Souls.

Bobtree
08-03-2012, 06:07 PM
I'm not sure I've ever seen anyone on the RPS forums even remotely happy with a game using GFWL!

OT, but I think you meant "about a game using GFWL." There are plenty of games with GFWL that we like in spite of it, such as Batman AA, RF Guerrilla, Bioshock 2, Section 8, Dawn of War 2, and Dead Rising 2. We do generally have consensus that GFWL is not a good solution for anything it tries to do.

Nullkigan
08-03-2012, 06:21 PM
I have to agree that Dark Souls is not really suitable for a PC port. I liked it enough to play 160 hours and collect the platinum trophy (plat Demon's Souls too) and waste a lot of time speculating about unknown uses of the pendant and possible inaccessible hidden areas (the game isn't that thoroughly detailed unfortunately). The game mechanics are so tightly wrapped around console gamepads that it would take a serious redesign and have very different feeling combat as a kb/m PC game, and coordination, trading, cheating, and voice chat would all undermine its design if it were on PC. I also think it's much less difficult than Demon's Souls overall, and somewhat overrated in comparison. Hopefully more developers will learn from their always-on asynchronous coop/antagonist multiplayer model, and create successful variations on it.

From Software has developed dozens of titles, and only one has a PC port (Ninja Blade). I'd like to see From games on PC in the future, and am on the fence about Armored Core V coming in a couple weeks, but they're a small, niche, and botique developer who's success has depended on their narrow focus. They'd have to make a pretty big gamble to leave that comfort zone.

A western PC release in the Monster Hunter franchise is a much more viable thing to petition for, but I doubt Capcom has dismissed it out of hand without doing serious research first, so don't hold your breath.

If you're really dying to play something in this vein on PC right now, I'd recommend La-Mulana. Be warned that it is very tough, unapologetically retro, epically long, and I needed 80+ hours, plenty of walkthrough help, and copious note taking to play through it. Incredible game, but it's not for everyone.

What is it with this thread and "what MIGHT happen would RUIN the creative vision of the developers!"? You can make the exact same argument about every other game ever. It's an interactive experience and people will enjoy it in different ways. It's not a painting, there to merely be looked at and praised by the people who live near the gallery.

So long as there are consistency checks for the online component, probably done by the defending/hosting player, there'd be no problems. It's not like there are no hackers, griefers or cheats on the console metaverses. Half of the metagame basically revolves around adding those people to bounty lists anyway.

The comments about analogue controls are valid, but far from insurmountable. A couple of timing changes to trap and attack patterns are easily done on a pc release. Even requiring a controller isn't a bad decision -this is a series which literally grew out of word of mouth and the expectation of players failing. It's an insult to the potential playerbase to assume they're incapable of figuring out what they're getting into.

I'd also like to see other From games brought across, but the only DS has any movement behind it at all. The original announcements heavily implied that Dark Souls WAS coming to PC and they only later dumped the platform.

Vandelay
08-03-2012, 06:21 PM
*Dons flame proofed hat*

They should design it for the Razer Hydra. Analogue movement with a stick and accurate camera control with motion controls (or just use the mouse in your right hand.)

Then me and the two other people that bought one could really enjoy it...

Bobtree
08-03-2012, 07:35 PM
What is it with this thread and "what MIGHT happen would RUIN the creative vision of the developers!"?

Who said that? Why did you quote my whole post? Did anyone even bring up the artistry of the game?

I think From COULD do it, and it COULD be good, but they won't. It's about opportunity cost.

If PC ports were easy, everyone would do it, and the reviews would be a lot better than what we tend to get.

DaftPunk
08-03-2012, 07:46 PM
But if you're going to bank on people having a specific peripheral like a 5-button mouse...why not just revert to gamepad support?


Why not both,and if you don't have either,they could leave option to remape controls,which is kinda normal feature for pc games.

Nullkigan
08-03-2012, 07:48 PM
The game mechanics are so tightly wrapped around console gamepads that it would take a serious redesign and have very different feeling combat as a kb/m PC game, and coordination, trading, cheating, and voice chat would all undermine its design if it were on PC.

You explicitly referenced the 'design' of the game.

I do, however, agree that From probably don't have the experience or interest to actually come through with a pc port for this installment. Most of the software engineers are probably currently approaching crunch time in a project from an entirely different genre and code base.

Drake Sigar
08-03-2012, 09:48 PM
What is it with this thread and "what MIGHT happen would RUIN the creative vision of the developers!"? You can make the exact same argument about every other game ever. It's an interactive experience and people will enjoy it in different ways. It's not a painting, there to merely be looked at and praised by the people who live near the gallery.

Pointing out the different control schemes is a farcry from claiming it would ruin the developer's creative vision. Noone appears to have approached that level of console fanboyism here. It wouldn't make much sense in a PC Gaming forum. Besides, what would they complain about - the Dark Souls franchise being dumbed down for a PC audience? The developers receiving more cash and encouragement to create further Dark Souls sequels?

Scumbag
09-03-2012, 12:47 AM
Despite all the interesting debates people are having here, has anyone considered that larger Japanese Publishers / Developers generally don’t like doing PC versions of their games due to institutional mindset of developers?
Note: I know Capcom are an exception to the rule.

Bhazor
09-03-2012, 01:16 AM
Who said that? Why did you quote my whole post? Did anyone even bring up the artistry of the game?

This guy did.


I'm going to go out on a limb here and speculate that Hidetaka Miyazaki dose not want to see it released on PC, for 2 reasons.

--Part of the beauty of the game is that you cannot cheat, and that gameplay is wholly dictated by the game designer. A PC version would not only be cracked day 1, the gameplay would also be violated day 1.

--It cannot be tuned properly because of the varieties of hardware. Bolting on KB/M controls, or having people use anything other than the controllers the game designer used during development would alter the designer's vision.

The artist dictates to the audience, and if a videogame designer aspires to create videogame art, then artist must have control over the experience. And that can only happen on a console.

Imagine if modders could change Citizen Kane because they wanted to see Susan Alexander's vagina? Or 8 1/2 because it was too hard to understand?


Despite all the interesting debates people are having here, has anyone considered that larger Japanese Publishers / Developers generally don’t like doing PC versions of their games due to institutional mindset of developers?
Note: I know Capcom are an exception to the rule.

And Square Enix.
And Sega.
And Konami.

deano2099
09-03-2012, 01:20 AM
As I said above, the MP is a core part of the game - there are like 50 editorial articles (by professional journalists, not fan-scrubs like me) arguing that the MP in Dark Souls makes the whole damn game.


So guess what's really going to break the game and ruin the design intent? When the servers get turned off in two years' time. And we'll be wishing we had a PC version with hackable, exploitable multiplayer, so clever people could exploit it in to doing what it used to do before the publishers stop caring.

Shane
09-03-2012, 04:09 PM
"...the company would like to return to the King's Field franchise, and that it's currently considering a PC version of Dark Souls."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/08/from-software-looking-at-ios-android-games.aspx

alset85
09-03-2012, 05:45 PM
I never buy games at launch but I'd absolutely make an exception for Dark Souls if it comes to PC.

outoffeelinsobad
09-03-2012, 05:54 PM
I never buy games at launch but I'd absolutely make an exception for Dark Souls if it comes to PC.

+1 and I'll buy the strategy guide.

Bhazor
09-03-2012, 06:47 PM
"...the company would like to return to the King's Field franchise, and that it's currently considering a PC version of Dark Souls."

http://www.gameinformer.com/b/news/archive/2012/03/08/from-software-looking-at-ios-android-games.aspx

Sadly the actual response is more muted.

"Of course, it's not over yet," Takeuchi said. "You have to go back to our roots, which is King's Field. We've made many games in that series. We've always been enamored by dark fantasy action RPGs. That's just been our core DNA and I think we'll continue to utilize that."
I asked From if there was any movement on the requested Windows PC port of Dark Souls, but the developer didn't have much of an update for me.
"That's going to be a decision left up to the publisher, Bandai Namco, but yes, we have seen the comments and we do know of the desire for a PC version," Takeuchi said.

http://www.gametrailers.com/side-mission/2012/03/08/fromsoftware-looks-to-smart-phones-tablets-says-dark-souls-success-changed-its-approach-to-making-games/

Scumbag
09-03-2012, 08:05 PM
And Square Enix.
And Sega.
And Konami.

Japanese developed games, not former Eidos etc... studio's works.

Drinking with Skeletons
09-03-2012, 10:01 PM
Dark Souls was so difficult that it killed the exploratory aspect for me. There's a difference between "dangerous" and "you will die repeatedly in this section because, by God, we will kill you, period, just don't even try to avoid it." I probably would've forgiven the game more if the combat had at least been engaging; if it had played like Kingdoms of Amalur or something, I'd probably have no complaints, but the fact that it's not even fun on a minute-to-minute basis is a real kick in the teeth.

In short, I'd love a mod that created a true Easy-mode for wusses like me who aren't given much hope of ever seeing much that the game has to offer.

Reinhardt
10-03-2012, 02:54 AM
Dark Souls was so difficult that it killed the exploratory aspect for me. There's a difference between "dangerous" and "you will die repeatedly in this section because, by God, we will kill you, period, just don't even try to avoid it." I probably would've forgiven the game more if the combat had at least been engaging; if it had played like Kingdoms of Amalur or something, I'd probably have no complaints, but the fact that it's not even fun on a minute-to-minute basis is a real kick in the teeth.

In short, I'd love a mod that created a true Easy-mode for wusses like me who aren't given much hope of ever seeing much that the game has to offer.

Kingdoms of Amalur could be beaten without taking a hit in almost every section of every difficulty on an initial playthrough. Dark Souls is a cautious game that urges you to take your time and observe your environment before you proceed. It isn't mechanically difficult to succeed if you understand how the enemies behave. I think maybe there's a happy medium between the two extremes but Amalur is an experience I'd rather not repeat.

Namdrol
10-03-2012, 10:40 AM
They can. Video-editing is relatively simple these days. I assume you've seen the Star Wars episodes 1-3 that don't mention Jar Jar, or at least heard of them.

Nope.

My point was that some creative people want to maintain control over how people experience their output, not that it wasn't technically possible to hacknslash or mashup some video files. You know, like artists with this kind of attitude: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKiIroiCvZ0 , who actually get pissed when their work degraded or altered.

But whatever, I was only speculating. Maybe Dark Souls guy doesn't give a rat's ass & there is no such thing as an uncompromising visionary videogame auteur who wants to ensure that anyone who plays his game experiences it exactly the way he intended.

It'd be too bad though, as creative products designed by committee and based entirely on market research are always milquetoast and quickly forgotten.

Doesn'tmeananything
10-03-2012, 11:58 AM
Maybe Dark Souls guy doesn't give a rat's ass & there is no such thing as an uncompromising visionary videogame auteur who wants to ensure that anyone who plays his game experiences it exactly the way he intended.


He shouldn't and there isn't. What you've described can never be a game.



It'd be too bad though, as creative products designed by committee and based entirely on market research are always milquetoast and quickly forgotten.

Yeah, why there can't be a creative lead that is supported and challenged by other people in his or her team? That's how most games are made, isn't it.

Bhazor
10-03-2012, 12:08 PM
If you think interactivity or immersive gameplay ruins what you're making then you have no place making computer games.


It'd be too bad though, as creative products designed by committee and based entirely on market research are always milquetoast and quickly forgotten.

I'm sure Valve would have something to say about that.

Namdrol
10-03-2012, 05:35 PM
If you think interactivity or immersive gameplay ruins what you're making then you have no place making computer games.

?? Are you intentionally being obtuse. & I don't make computer games.



I'm sure Valve would have something to say about that.

I don't think Mr. Valve cares.



He shouldn't and there isn't. What you've described can never be a game.

?? A game wherein the player cannot mod things, cheat etc.? like, oh idk, both Souls games?


Yeah, why there can't be a creative lead that is supported and challenged by other people in his or her team? That's how most games are made, isn't it.

so what. Most movies are made that way too, that doesn't mean there isn't room for the odd uncompromising visionary.

Anyway, I'm done with this thread as I like discussions, not attacks. cheers.

Doesn'tmeananything
11-03-2012, 04:36 AM
?? A game wherein the player cannot mod things, cheat etc.? like, oh idk, both Souls games?

So you claim that there are two types of games: absolutely linear affairs, where everything is dictated by the designer, and, hilariously, the same kind of thing, but which you can mod and cheat in?

Dark Souls is a game with elaborately done world, that you can tackle in many ways through exploration and multifaceted combat system. No designer, 'visionary' or 'auteur' guides you, he just made sure that there's a cohesive system of elements with which the player can freely interact. And that's the beauty of it. By means of the game, the player creates his own experience. It shouldn't matter if someone decides to put in a mod or cheat.


so what. Most movies are made that way too, that doesn't mean there isn't room for the odd uncompromising visionary.

So there's a room in that, um, paradigm of yours between rigidly constructed gaming experience (but there's no actual game there) and a faceless group of people trying to appeal to everybody. It's an irrelevant approach to game design, though, including my example. What's important is the understanding of emergence, player agency, just interactivity, for crying out loud, and making those a major part of the game.

You, however, keep comparing games to movies and think of developers as directors. That's not what the games medium is about.

jnx
11-03-2012, 08:11 AM
I watched a video review of Dark Souls to find out what's all this about. The game looked rather poor both in graphics and gameplay, and had terrible voice acting. Can someone enlighten me about why this is significant?

Flint
11-03-2012, 08:28 AM
Can someone enlighten me about why this is significant?
Because it's hard and punishing, apparently.

Doesn'tmeananything
11-03-2012, 11:12 AM
The game looked rather poor... in graphics..., and had terrible voice acting.

Irrelevant.


...
and gameplay

What, not enough visceral cinematic immersive gritty action to it?


Because it's hard and punishing, apparently.

It rewards patience and thoughtful approach and does not assume that the player is a cretin.

jnx
11-03-2012, 11:51 AM
I'm sensing a defensive tone there. It wasn't my intention to attack your beloved game. Watching the gametrailers review of it, I couldn't find anything special in it, and your post really didn't help me either. Would of course try it out of curiosity if it ever found it's way on to pc.

Bhazor
11-03-2012, 12:31 PM
I watched a video review of Deus Ex to find out what's all the fuss was about. The game looked rather poor both in graphics and gameplay, and had terrible voice acting. Can someone enlighten me about why this is significant?

My point about Valve was that their games are almost entirely driven by commitees, think tanks and market research. That doesn't seem to automatically ruin their games now does it?

Aside
In my last post immersive gameplay should read emergent gameplay.

It turns out that it is I who is the cretin.

DaftPunk
11-03-2012, 12:44 PM
Whats with the people on this board,its like you started gaming on pc few years ago. Asking what makes Deus Ex special,not knowing what Unreal/UT is..jeez.

Doesn'tmeananything
11-03-2012, 12:58 PM
I'm sensing a defensive tone there. It wasn't my intention to attack your beloved game. Watching the gametrailers review of it, I couldn't find anything special in it, and your post really didn't help me either. Would of course try it out of curiosity if it ever found it's way on to pc.


It was more of a bewilderment on the fact that you, for some reason, added visuals and voice acting into equation of a good game.

And I've, along with some people here, already mentioned a couple of times in this thread what I think are the great features of the game. As to the gametrailers (heh) review - all you do is pretty much just fight, and it may look unexciting for someone who's not familiar with the system, the rules of the game, but to disregard it based simply on that is kind of silly.

Oh, and don't paint me a rabid fanboy, good God.


Whats with the people on this board,its like you started gaming on pc few years ago. Asking what makes Deus Ex special,not knowing what Unreal/UT is..jeez.

Look.

I mean.

Nothing witty comes to mind. Help!

Namdrol
11-03-2012, 01:11 PM
So you claim that there are two types of games: absolutely linear affairs, where everything is dictated by the designer, and, hilariously, the same kind of thing, but which you can mod and cheat in?

Dark Souls is a game with elaborately done world, that you can tackle in many ways through exploration and multifaceted combat system. No designer, 'visionary' or 'auteur' guides you, he just made sure that there's a cohesive system of elements with which the player can freely interact. And that's the beauty of it. By means of the game, the player creates his own experience. It shouldn't matter if someone decides to put in a mod or cheat.



So there's a room in that, um, paradigm of yours between rigidly constructed gaming experience (but there's no actual game there) and a faceless group of people trying to appeal to everybody. It's an irrelevant approach to game design, though, including my example. What's important is the understanding of emergence, player agency, just interactivity, for crying out loud, and making those a major part of the game.

You, however, keep comparing games to movies and think of developers as directors. That's not what the games medium is about.

Thanks for the non-aggro, albeit condescending, reply.

First, I have no paradigm.

Second, what I'm talking about is extra-game player interaction, not in-game. It has nothing whatsoever to do with linearity or dictating what a player does in game. What I'm trying to get across is that maybe a designer might not want the carefully constructed "cohesive system of elements with which the player can freely interact" tampered with (cheats, mods, ad hoc control schemes, etc.). All the effort and vision that went into making " a game with elaborately done world, that you can tackle in many ways through exploration and multifaceted combat system" is the vision I'm talking about.

Third, as to whether "It shouldn't matter if someone decides to put in a mod or cheat.", 'should' is kinda irrelevant. What matters is what the person who owns the IP wants done with it. If that person doesn't want to see the game adulterated, then that is their prerogative.

Bhazor
11-03-2012, 01:13 PM
Asking what makes Deus Ex special,not knowing what Unreal/UT is..jeez.

.... sarcasm is a lost art.

@Namdrol

Ahh I misunderstood. With all the movie alusions I thought you were protecting linearity at the expense of player freedom. My apologies.

But really its a moot point. It is very easy to prevent modding and there are already cheats and cracks for the console versions.

Doesn'tmeananything
11-03-2012, 01:28 PM
Second, what I'm talking about is extra-game player interaction, not in-game. It has nothing whatsoever to do with linearity or dictating what a player does in game. What I'm trying to get across is that maybe a designer might not want the carefully constructed "cohesive system of elements with which the player can freely interact" tampered with (cheats, mods, ad hoc control schemes, etc.). All the effort and vision that went into making " a game with elaborately done world, that you can tackle in many ways through exploration and multifaceted combat system" is the vision I'm talking about.


Third, as to whether "It shouldn't matter if someone decides to put in a mod or cheat.", 'should' is kinda irrelevant. What matters is what the person who owns the IP wants done with it. If that person doesn't want to see the game adulterated, then that is their prerogative.


Constant 'but movies!' did throw your point off a bit. Still, no one's going to re-release -officially - a game with a permanent invincibility mode or weaponry modded into cooking utensils. Good game design will unconditionally be enjoyed by the player, but the great thing about our open platform, the ability to put a new thing in or change something way beyond the designer's intent and see how it interacts with other elements of the system, must never be taken away. I doubt it's unintentional that every good developer doesn't have a problem with that.

jnx
11-03-2012, 01:32 PM
I watched a video review of Deus Ex to find out what's all the fuss was about. The game looked rather poor both in graphics and gameplay, and had terrible voice acting. Can someone enlighten me about why this is significant?


As an analog this is just silly. Deus Ex came out in the year 2000 and was rather fancy at that time, and still you couldn't make that claim of the gameplay. Dark Souls seems to have come out last year.

jnx
11-03-2012, 01:36 PM
but to disregard it based simply on that is kind of silly.

When did I disregard it? Asking what makes a game special can hardly be called disregarding it.

DaftPunk
11-03-2012, 01:38 PM
Well its kinda hard to detect sarcasm from post on forum :D

Doesn'tmeananything
11-03-2012, 01:42 PM
When did I disregard it?

The game looked rather poor in gameplay

Hmmm.
.............

Bhazor
11-03-2012, 01:44 PM
@JNX
And you calling gameplay naff when you've only watched a (no doubt glowing) review is just silly.

jnx
11-03-2012, 01:45 PM
Hmmm.
.............

"Looked" clearly implies that it's my impression based on on what I saw. Leaving it at that would've been disregarding. Instead I came here to be proven wrong because I don't put too much weight on reviews. Clearly my quest for better understanding of the game was misplaced here.

Doesn'tmeananything
11-03-2012, 02:01 PM
Clearly my quest for better understanding of the game was misplaced here.

This lugubrious dénouement whelms thy most humble servant, withal I shall but covet a halcyon endeavours elsewhere upon thee. With alacrity then!

Reinhardt
11-03-2012, 02:28 PM
Dark Souls has pretty unique gameplay, actually. Every swing of your weapon is a major decision because if you run in there carelessly hacking and slashing, even the common trash enemies will tear you apart, and even if you've leveled up quite a bit.

It's about precision, calculation and planning. I like that. You might not.

jnx
11-03-2012, 03:02 PM
Dark Souls has pretty unique gameplay, actually. Every swing of your weapon is a major decision because if you run in there carelessly hacking and slashing, even the common trash enemies will tear you apart, and even if you've leveled up quite a bit.

It's about precision, calculation and planning. I like that. You might not.

That sounds something I might very well like. Yours is the first worthy answer I've received, thanks for that.

Reinhardt
11-03-2012, 04:11 PM
The vast majority of the game world is open to explore at any point, and I'm pretty sure it could be cleared at any character level if the player possessed the skill. This was an intriguing prospect to me.

As far as combat goes, its easiest comparison is with Monster Hunter, the PS2-turned-PSP sensation in Japan. Haven't played it in ages, myself. I remember it being satisfying to hunt creatures with mechanically-distinct weapon types, but also that I was dismayed to find that much of the game revolved around a very tedious grind of loot-collecting...

Dark Souls is organized more seamlessly than Monster Hunter, but they do share a similar grind when it comes to weapons and armor that may give you a significant advantage in combat.

casimirsblake
11-03-2012, 10:11 PM
Dark Souls has pretty unique gameplay, actually. Every swing of your weapon is a major decision because if you run in there carelessly hacking and slashing, even the common trash enemies will tear you apart, and even if you've leveled up quite a bit.

It's about precision, calculation and planning. I like that. You might not.

Oh for goodness sakes, this isn't new at all, just that almost no-one has played King's Field. :( I'm very glad to hear that From are considering going back to KF, because they all are much superior games to Demon's Souls. Dark Souls? Well at least it's open world, but still not first person!

HothMonster
12-03-2012, 08:02 PM
"
Oh for goodness sakes, this isn't new at all"

Unique != new

It is unique because not many people do it, it is a rarity. Not because it is original and no one has ever done it before.

Reinhardt
12-03-2012, 08:36 PM
Not to mention, the mechanics of Dark Souls are a lot more varied and kinetic than those of King's Field.

Jockie
20-03-2012, 10:10 PM
There some kind of teasery announcement thing happening over on the Facebooks. Nothing revealed yet, it's one of those 'If seventy billion people 'like' this, maybe we'll tease you with a picture that reveals nothing" things.

https://www.facebook.com/darksouls/app_352678381442367

Rauten
21-03-2012, 01:02 AM
Shortly after the facebook arseholery, a freelancer journalist that seems to be working for an Australian magazine posted this on the interwebs:
http://members.iinet.net.au/~elpresidente/died.png

If this ends up being one big trolling scheme, I will kill myself so hard I'll revive and rekill myself in an instant.

If this ends up being true, I am so getting this day one.

Voon
21-03-2012, 04:47 AM
Just got an 360 version of Dark Souls and never played it before. Aside from the general consensus that it's frustratingly hard, I heard that nobody you fight dies but you can be killed, instead . Is this true?

Wizardry
21-03-2012, 04:57 AM
Just got an 360 version of Dark Souls and never played it before. Aside from the general consensus that it's frustratingly hard, I heard that nobody you fight dies but you can be killed, instead . Is this true?
It's not frustratingly hard if you've played video game from the 80s and early 90s.

Voon
21-03-2012, 05:26 AM
It's not frustratingly hard if you've played video game from the 80s and early 90s.

From what I've seen, it's a just bit slower than Severence's combat.

JackShandy
21-03-2012, 05:49 AM
It's not frustratingly hard if you've played video game from the 80s and early 90s.

"Volcano's aren't hot if you've been on the surface of the sun."

Voon; only bosses and special NPC's die permanently when you kill them. Everyone else respawns when you die.

sabrage
21-03-2012, 06:08 AM
Voon; only bosses and special NPC's die permanently when you kill them. Everyone else respawns when you die.

And you will die. Doesn't matter who you are, and machismo-spewing would-be badasses who try to deny its difficulty are simply lying to themselves. It's also dangerously addictive. I found Demon's Souls to feel a bit more immediate than Severance; some of the enemies in the latter feel like straight up meat shields. As a result, you also die faster in Demon's Souls, though you can easily still get fucked up by minor enemies in Severance if you aren't paying attention.

Wizardry
21-03-2012, 06:08 AM
From what I've seen, it's a just bit slower than Severence's combat.
No it's not. Go watch some videos. In Dark Souls you tend to hit enemies at least twice as fast.

Voon
21-03-2012, 06:16 AM
Oh, cool

/10char

renhoelder
21-03-2012, 06:41 AM
The same picture, but seems from the actual magazine.

http://i.imgur.com/DgP7Ml.jpg

Supposedly from this magazine:

http://i.imgur.com/B10ppl.jpg

But wouldn't news this big make it onto the frontpage, if true? Or was the "YOU DIED" more of an teaser than a real announcement.

God, I hope this won't turn out to be something else. A release date for April 18th seem pretty soon, but then again Alan Wake came out also pretty quickly after the announcement.

JackShandy
21-03-2012, 06:57 AM
April 18th is the date the issue goes on sale in stores, not the date they're saying DS will come out.

renhoelder
21-03-2012, 07:09 AM
April 18th is the date the issue goes on sale in stores, not the date they're saying DS will come out.

You´re right, now that I really actually read the page :) Hope the announcement is sooner though.

Winged Nazgul
07-04-2012, 11:57 AM
Confirmed release for August with new bosses:

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=469409

Vartawelks
02-08-2012, 01:17 AM
Sorry for the extreme thread necromancy, but I just wrote this on the blog comments and felt like it could lead to an interesting thought exchange.



I just finished Dark Souls, and THAT final boss battle was just the final push I needed to definitely consider it one of the, at least, three best games in the videogame history. Some may argue the proportion of that statement, but considering:

a) How the game takes a genre as old as the Metroidvania formula, and with such strong instalements as Symphony of the Night, Super Metroid and the Prime trilogy, and COMPLETELY revolutionizes it.
b) The internal coherence and gorgeous design of the game world, and the capacity for immersion and absorption with which it captures you.
c) The depth and complexity of the battle and leveling system, with the relevance of things like the spatial awareness, the importance of the geography, and the knowledge of your weapon it all requires.
d) Last and most important (for me and my gaming interests, at least): the complexity, richness, and subtlety of the themes, motivations of the caracters and general plot, with great things such as the use of presocratic philosophy for explaining the game world genesis and origins.

sabrage
02-08-2012, 01:20 AM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognized the Metroidvania formula at work. But, to be fair, Severence: Blade of Darkness did almost the exact same thing 8 years earlier.

Shooop
02-08-2012, 01:48 PM
Just buy the PS3 version, seriously. The PC port is not only said to be poorly made but it's tied to GFWL even if you buy it on Steam.

Kadayi
02-08-2012, 01:53 PM
Just buy the PS3 version, seriously. The PC port is not only said to be poorly made but it's tied to GFWL even if you buy it on Steam.

That would require buying a PS3.

Vartawelks
02-08-2012, 03:15 PM
I'm glad I'm not the only one who recognized the Metroidvania formula at work. But, to be fair, Severence: Blade of Darkness did almost the exact same thing 8 years earlier.

To be honest, Severance is one of the games I missed on the time and I've been wanting to play it since, so I can't speak of it but I do tried it and I'd swear its structure was based on isolated levels, wasn't it?

Even so, the Metroidvania design it's just one of the aspects why I think this game is as good as I think it is. As I said, what I find more interesting is the narrative but the combat, leveling system, exploration and secrets are completely superb.

gundato
02-08-2012, 03:18 PM
Be aware that all signs point to the PC port being poor by PC standards, but good by the standards of the game on the console (outside of GfwL). So I suggest not dismissing the PC port if that is your preferred platform.

Namdrol
02-08-2012, 06:46 PM
Be aware that all signs point to the PC port being poor by PC standards, but good by the standards of the game on the console (outside of GfwL). So I suggest not dismissing the PC port if that is your preferred platform.

Poor by PC standards? I'm not sure what you mean. Most ported console games I've played don't have things like fov sliders, high rez texture packs, kb/mouse centric menus, excellent optimization, etc. If anything Dark Souls on PC is looking to be a standard PC game.

Have I missed some great AAA console ports from the last 5 years that leverage the PC platform? What recent AAA games are people comparing Dark Souls too that make it seem so lousy? Honest questions.

gundato
02-08-2012, 06:48 PM
Poor by PC standards? I'm not sure what you mean. Most ported console games I've played don't have things like fov sliders, high rez texture packs, kb/mouse centric menus, excellent optimization, etc. If anything Dark Souls on PC is looking to be a standard PC game.

Have I missed some great AAA console ports from the last 5 years that leverage the PC platform? What recent AAA games are people comparing Dark Souls too that make it seem so lousy? Honest questions.
No, but you did miss a REALLY long discussion on it, and I figured that was the most diplomatic way to alert people to actually take a look at the port rather than just listen to "it is a bad port".

Kadayi
02-08-2012, 07:50 PM
Indeed. Albeit I'm not sure whether this is a personal must have (the balls hard difficulty is vaguely unappealing tbh). This only came about because people petitioned heavily for a PC port. If it sells well then it's likely that the next title will come to the PC as standard (and no doubt more optimized for it), however if people eschew it then the publishers will undoubtedly consider PC a lost cause and turn their backs on the platform.

Shooop
02-08-2012, 07:58 PM
Poor by PC standards? I'm not sure what you mean. Most ported console games I've played don't have things like fov sliders, high rez texture packs, kb/mouse centric menus, excellent optimization, etc. If anything Dark Souls on PC is looking to be a standard PC game.

Have I missed some great AAA console ports from the last 5 years that leverage the PC platform? What recent AAA games are people comparing Dark Souls too that make it seem so lousy? Honest questions.

FOV slider? Texture pack? Who said Dark Souls was getting any of these things?

The problem with Dark Souls on PC is everything the developers have said strongly suggests they are just rushing out a port instead of making one that actually works. People petitioned for a port they could play and enjoy, not another Gears of War on PC.

ado
02-08-2012, 09:56 PM
I think the port will be fine. The dev statements seem to me more like "managing people's expectations" than "sorry guys we fucked it up", like everyone seems to be reading it as. The only major issue could be the fact that it's not gonna be well optimized for a broad range of systems. And GFWL shenanigans of course XD

But then again I'm very much an optimist and really really want this port to be solid, because the game is just... HYPERBOLE BOMB!

deano2099
02-08-2012, 10:00 PM
If only there were some way we could find out if the port is any good before we buy it. But I guess I'm a dreamer.

byteCrunch
02-08-2012, 10:04 PM
If only there were some way we could find out if the port is any good before we buy it. But I guess I'm a dreamer.

Demo... if only.

DaftPunk
02-08-2012, 11:06 PM
Demo... if only.


There is always special way of demo :3

Henke
03-08-2012, 06:57 AM
I needed to definitely consider it one of the, at least, three best games in the videogame history.
I listed it as my second favourite game of last year, after Frozen Synapse. But it's certainly an amazing game. Even if the PC version is buggy on release, the game is destined to become a cult classic even among PC gamers.

Drayk
03-08-2012, 10:54 AM
I have the game on my Xbox... I played it for 40 hours, completing something like 25-30% of the game before giving up.

The game is amazing but it's not for me. I felt like losing my time playing it because it's really an unforgiving trial and error game.

At some point I made a second character and nearly reached the same point in the story as I did with my main, all of that in 2 hours of gameplay, dying only once.

I would only recommend it to people who have lots of free time.

If I ever play it again, it would be with cheats, on pc.

db1331
03-08-2012, 01:36 PM
At some point I made a second character and nearly reached the same point in the story as I did with my main, all of that in 2 hours of gameplay, dying only once.

I had a similar experience after I got stuck on my first character. Once you get a handle on the combat system, and how to manage your stamina, the game is extremely doable. I went into every boss fight knowing nothing ahead of time, and I killed most of them on my first try. Very rarely did it take more than two attempts.

As a matter of fact, after I beat the game, I immediately started a NG+ and killed Orenstein and Smough in Anor Londo in one sitting, with 0 deaths, probably in about 2 hours. My first time through the game, that probably would have taken me 30 hours or more, and countless deaths.

Voon
03-08-2012, 06:16 PM
Hopefully, they won't screw up the Kb+M controls in this port if the framerate issue thingy wasn't as bad as they say. Speaking of framerates, they better fix that issue in Blighttown. The drops were insane in the console boxes

ZIGS
03-08-2012, 07:13 PM
Hopefully, they won't screw up the Kb+M controls in this port if the framerate issue thingy wasn't as bad as they say. Speaking of framerates, they better fix that issue in Blighttown. The drops were insane in the console boxes

kb/m controls won't be customizable so you better hope they nail them perfectly (fat chance)

Shooop
05-08-2012, 12:30 AM
kb/m controls won't be customizable so you better hope they nail them perfectly (fat chance)
You can't change any of the keymapping?

It's already failed. Horribly.

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 02:15 AM
You can't change any of the keymapping?

It's already failed. Horribly.

That's what we've been saying for months

Finicky
05-08-2012, 02:28 AM
Haha holy shit, not even the most basic function of keymapping?
I'm on an azerty keyboard too, wana bet they didn't code the game to recognise that and my movement will be the equivalent of zqsd on an english qwerty keyboard?

This port deserves to sell 0 copies, I hope they lose a large amount of money on this port and crawl back to console land where standards are low.

Sketch
05-08-2012, 02:29 AM
*sigh* OK then.

Voon
05-08-2012, 03:11 AM
They should've shipped us a controller in the collector's edition, instead.

Voon
05-08-2012, 03:19 AM
kb/m controls won't be customizable so you better hope they nail them perfectly (fat chance)

Maybe I'll take that with a pinch of salt. I mean, seriously? FromSoftware really said that?

Sketch
05-08-2012, 03:27 AM
They said KB/M support is 'limited'.

gundato
05-08-2012, 03:31 AM
Haha holy shit, not even the most basic function of keymapping?
I'm on an azerty keyboard too, wana bet they didn't code the game to recognise that and my movement will be the equivalent of zqsd on an english qwerty keyboard?

This port deserves to sell 0 copies, I hope they lose a large amount of money on this port and crawl back to console land where standards are low.

That's nice.

Just keep this in mind next time you see a console-exclusive game you want to play.

Voon
05-08-2012, 04:01 AM
They said KB/M support is 'limited'.

Which... doesn't really mean "no keybinding at all"

But, I'll just wait for the WIT to confirm this. Something's definately wrong here; aside from the DRM

Shooop
05-08-2012, 04:31 AM
I'd be so nice to live in world where people actually direct quote people properly so we don't draw the wrong conclusions.

Can we make that happen? I think we can.



I'm still not optimistic at all this game will turn out fine, but if does I'll consider it maybe on sale.

Mohorovicic
05-08-2012, 08:16 AM
This port deserves to sell 0 copies, I hope they lose a large amount of money on this port and crawl back to console land where standards are low.

I think it will sell about half a mil, and the low turnout will be blamed on piracy.

AlonePlusEasyTarget
05-08-2012, 10:39 AM
The default control for M+KB is not that bad and even if you don't like it you can rebind it. Source (page 6) : http://cdn.steampowered.com/Manuals/211420/DARKSOULS_PC_MANUAL_ANZ.pdf?t=1344010093


Although it seems like you can only navigate the menus with keyboard.

Finicky
05-08-2012, 10:43 AM
That's nice.

Just keep this in mind next time you see a console-exclusive game you want to play.

I have a ps3 and had an xbox before it rrod'ed, and this scenario has happened only twice since they were released (alan wake eventually got a port, and a good one) with journey and gt5.

Bad ports don't belong on pc (or anywhere).

edit: my reaction was to it supposedly not having key mapping (there are quite a few ports that don't) , if it does then obviously disregard for this game.

If you think a game without configurable key mapping belongs on pc then please do tell why you think so.

Jockie
05-08-2012, 10:44 AM
Indeed "The following are the default controls in the game. The default
keys can be changed in the Options. " in the manual is more believable than some dude on the forum raging about something he just made up.

Feldspar
05-08-2012, 10:45 AM
I think it will sell about half a mil, and the low turnout will be blamed on piracy.

And then it will come up in a Steam sale, the rest of us will buy it and pronounce it very good for the tenner we payed for it.

Oshada
05-08-2012, 11:42 AM
Those keybindings look alright. And you can change them, nice. If they release a demo I might buy it full price after all (not the absurd Australian price of 69.95, the more sane price of 39.95).

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 12:10 PM
Ok, according to the manual the keys can be remapped. This is awesome news and I'm glad I was wrong, though I'm fairly sure they said at some point the keys couldn't be remapped. They probably changed it due to massive backlash.
This was actually the main thing it was worrying me, since I'm one of those rare people who play everything ​with a keyboard

Voon
05-08-2012, 12:20 PM
Well, that's one less problem. Now they need to get GfWL put of the way and everything will fine

Mohorovicic
05-08-2012, 12:24 PM
Fat chance of that happening.

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 12:43 PM
Well, that's one less problem. Now they need to get GfWL put of the way and everything will fine

Considering GFWL is needed for the online part, that's not gonna happen. Now getting rid of the 30 FPS cap...

Dominic Tarason
05-08-2012, 01:14 PM
Indeed "The following are the default controls in the game. The default
keys can be changed in the Options. " in the manual is more believable than some dude on the forum raging about something he just made up.

There's so much bullshit being spread about this port, it's not even funny. It was amusing seeing a couple of guys raging about distant theoreticals when it was first announced, but it really has gone beyond a joke now.

The game has a combat engine that is very reliant on analogue movement while locked on, so yeah, any direct PC port is going to be best played with a gamepad. It should still be playable enough, but the game was literally designed from the ground up with a specific controller in mind.

I've asked this repeatedly, but nobody seems to answer: Why does nobody rage over driving games or flight sims being borderline-unplayable with mouse/keyboard? It's the exact same situation there - game designed with controller in mind, and yet you don't see any frothing fanboy rage when it's suggested that there might be controllers better suited for a job than the Mouse and Keyboard, which were apparently handed down to Moses atop the mount.

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 01:17 PM
I play a lot of racing games on the PC and I always use the keyboard and I'm usually pretty good!

Feldspar
05-08-2012, 01:29 PM
I play a lot of racing games on the PC and I always use the keyboard and I'm usually pretty good!
I usually use the keyboard for racing games, it's fine for arcade racing but the closer they get to simulation the more you are hampered by having a digital accelerator and steering.

I do have a gamepad, and not having a current console I'm not adverse to using it for console-like PC games. Just like playing an FPS on a gamepad feels stupid and backward (to me, at least), some control set-ups work better on a pad.

Oshada
05-08-2012, 01:38 PM
Does anyone else feel that Q and E should be switched? I always have Use set to E in games :S

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 02:19 PM
If the controls are fully remappable (as the manual implies) then you can just change them yourself

gundato
05-08-2012, 02:49 PM
I have a ps3 and had an xbox before it rrod'ed, and this scenario has happened only twice since they were released (alan wake eventually got a port, and a good one) with journey and gt5.

Bad ports don't belong on pc (or anywhere).

edit: my reaction was to it supposedly not having key mapping (there are quite a few ports that don't) , if it does then obviously disregard for this game.

If you think a game without configurable key mapping belongs on pc then please do tell why you think so.

I think that throwing a huge hissy fit is never the answer.

I think that if the game is designed around the use of analog input (wheel, joystick, or gamepad), then they can skimp on the kb/m. You don't see people bitching in the opposite direction ("OH MY GOD!! DWARF FORTRESS DOESN'T SUPPORT MY SAITEK! I HOPE THE DEV DIES OF AIDS!").

And, as I said, I think throwing a huge hissy fit is never the answer.
There is a difference between "That's disappointing, I guess this isn't for me" and "I hope they die!". The former shows maturity, the latter makes me wonder if your mom recently refused to buy you the latest pokemon toy.

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 03:38 PM
I think that if the game is designed around the use of analog input (wheel, joystick, or gamepad), then they can skimp on the kb/m.

Or, you know... tweak the game so it works on the intended platform/method of control? British cars aren't tailored to American roads yet you don't see British manufacturers going "yeah, just get used to driving on the other side". They modify the cars so they fit the "platform" they're meant to "run" on.

And now you say: "oh but that would require time and effort on the part of the developers!! They're already doing this port out of charity!!! Why won't anyone think of the poor developers!!"

Well, no. They're making and selling a product and it's their DUTY to make it as good as possible. If the game is so reliant on analog imput like you say it is and if the devs don't make it work on keyboard on a satisfactory level, then they're not delivering a good product, plain and simple

NathanH
05-08-2012, 03:47 PM
I've asked this repeatedly, but nobody seems to answer: Why does nobody rage over driving games or flight sims being borderline-unplayable with mouse/keyboard? It's the exact same situation there - game designed with controller in mind, and yet you don't see any frothing fanboy rage when it's suggested that there might be controllers better suited for a job than the Mouse and Keyboard, which were apparently handed down to Moses atop the mount.

Part of it is probably that those games are more simulation-y, and the more of simulation-y something is the more acceptable it is to require a specific tool. Another reason is that flight simulators are not so much of a threat. Finally, it's a question of disgruntlement at one-sidedness. Nobody would release a console game that required a mouse.

pkt-zer0
05-08-2012, 04:00 PM
The game has a combat engine that is very reliant on analogue movement while locked on
How so? What makes it different from other third-person action games, which work better on keyboard+mouse without even needing lock-on? In the case of Devil May Cry, the fixed camera is an obvious reason. But here? I don't see it. Stuff like Darksiders, Prince of Persia, Bionic Commando, etc. work better with KB+M, seems like Dark Souls should be fine as well.

Voon
05-08-2012, 04:01 PM
I tried hitting things without the lock on. Misses and backstabs errywhere

Gorzan
05-08-2012, 04:10 PM
Yeah, the kind of combat this game has is clearly desinged for lock-on. I just can't see it working on a more freeform way.

deano2099
05-08-2012, 04:16 PM
Finally, it's a question of disgruntlement at one-sidedness. Nobody would release a console game that required a mouse.

The Command and Conquer games on the PSX were nigh-on unplayable without one.


Well, no. They're making and selling a product and it's their DUTY to make it as good as possible. If the game is so reliant on analog imput like you say it is and if the devs don't make it work on keyboard on a satisfactory level, then they're not delivering a good product, plain and simple

Which is probably one of the reasons they ruled out a PC port to start with, and only changed their minds after a huge petition.

It amazes me people signed the Dark Souls petition, presumably under the assumption that they'd decided not to do a PC port because they couldn't be bothered or just didn't feel like it. Rather than that they'd looked at the game, figured it wasn't actually that suitable to PC as a platform for various reasons, and decided not to do it.

The thing is, had they responded to that petition saying "the control scheme wouldn't work well on a PC and it'd have to be locked to 30FPS for timing reasons, so we don't think it's worth it" people would have told them "that's okay, PC users can plug in controllers and 30FPS is fine".

Voon
05-08-2012, 04:19 PM
Yeah, the kind of combat this game has is clearly desinged for lock-on. I just can't see it working on a more freeform way.

Indeed. I first thought the combat was a bit like Monster Hunter when I first tried it out. I could manage to land a few hits if the bosses are huge enough but against smaller enemies, I'm screwed without lock-on. Plus, you can't block properly without it.

gundato
05-08-2012, 05:04 PM
Or, you know... tweak the game so it works on the intended platform/method of control? British cars aren't tailored to American roads yet you don't see British manufacturers going "yeah, just get used to driving on the other side". They modify the cars so they fit the "platform" they're meant to "run" on.

And now you say: "oh but that would require time and effort on the part of the developers!! They're already doing this port out of charity!!! Why won't anyone think of the poor developers!!"

Well, no. They're making and selling a product and it's their DUTY to make it as good as possible. If the game is so reliant on analog imput like you say it is and if the devs don't make it work on keyboard on a satisfactory level, then they're not delivering a good product, plain and simple

And you DO realize the xbox 360 controller works perfectly on the PC, right? So do the other gamepads out there. So yeah, it works on the intended platform/method of control. Intended platform for the port: PC. Intended method of control: Gamepad similar to the 360 or PS3 controller.

And as has been mentioned countless times: Nobody is bitching that the DCS games pretty much require flight systems. Nobody is bitching that the really sim-heavy racing games need wheels.

DaftPunk
05-08-2012, 05:10 PM
So it would be ok with you if Crysis port for consoles required Keboyard or mouse,otherwise you couldn't play it ? I don't believe so..

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 05:33 PM
And you DO realize the xbox 360 controller works perfectly on the PC, right? So do the other gamepads out there. So yeah, it works on the intended platform/method of control. Intended platform for the port: PC. Intended method of control: Gamepad similar to the 360 or PS3 controller.

A gamepad is an accessory. Keyboard and mouse is the PC's primary method of control. Think of the gamepad for PC as a racing wheel for consoles. Not every console gamer owns a wheel, they're perfectly able to play their racing games using the gamepad and they feel no need to buy one (nor should they) for that very reason.

I've been playing games on the PC using only keyboard and mouse for 13 years. Why should I have to buy a gamepad now in order to enjoy a game? Does that make sense to you? Developers are free and more than welcome to support gamepads, but they should never drop keyboard support, no exceptions. Everyone who has a PC has a keyboard and a mouse, it's PC's primary method of imput/control, whether you like it or not

gundato
05-08-2012, 05:37 PM
A gamepad is an accessory. Keyboard and mouse is the PC's primary method of control. Think of the gamepad for PC as a racing wheel for consoles. Not every console gamer owns a wheel, they're perfectly able to play their racing games using the gamepad and they feel no need to buy one (nor should they) for that very reason.

I've been playing games on the PC using only keyboard and mouse for 13 years. Why should I have to buy a gamepad now in order to enjoy a game? Does that make sense to you? Developers are free and more than welcome to support gamepads, but they should never drop keyboard support, no exceptions. Everyone who has a PC has a keyboard and a mouse, it's PC's primary method of imput/control, whether you like it or not

Actually, if memory serves, the more recent Gran Turismos are almost impossible without a wheel.
And what about Rock Band/Guitar Hero/Flute Hero? Those need accessories.

And I grew up playing with a mouse/keyboard and a piece of crap joystick with 2 buttons. I didn't throw a hissy fit when I saw IL-2 and got a mini-erection. And when I have enough cash, I'll probably get a full on flight system and a DCS game.

Some games work better with things other than the kb/m combo. I'm sorry if that offends you, but its true.

Sketch
05-08-2012, 05:38 PM
So it would be ok with you if Crysis port for consoles required Keboyard or mouse,otherwise you couldn't play it ? I don't believe so..

This is not the point at all, this game uses a control scheme that is not common on PC's and is not at all suited to the keyboard. You can use it though and rebind keys it'll just be more awkward through no fault of their own.

ZIGS, you in no way have to buy a controller to play the game, you're free to rebind your controls as you see fit, it's just it won't be as good as it is with a controller because the way the game is played makes it so. The same reason why some games are better with a wheel or a joystick, yes you can play them with a keyboard, but it's not the optimum way to do so. It'd be like playing FIFA with a keyboard.

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 05:43 PM
ZIGS, you in no way have to buy a controller to play the game, you're free to rebind your controls as you see fit, it's just it won't be as good as it is with a controller because the way the game is played makes it so. The same reason why some games are better with a wheel or a joystick, yes you can play them with a keyboard, but it's not the optimum way to do so. It'd be like playing FIFA with a keyboard.

I fully realize that, I was just replying to gundato because of the way he implied you needed to have one and that it's something every PC gamer should have

gundato
05-08-2012, 06:14 PM
I fully realize that, I was just replying to gundato because of the way he implied you needed to have one and that it's something every PC gamer should have

No, what I am saying is that you get accessories for what you want to do.

If you want to play clan matches or a lot of co-op: Get a headset with a mic.
If you want to play good flight sims: Get at least a joystick, preferably a flight system
If you want to play games that originated on the consoles: Get a gamepad

And don't whinge if you want to play one of those but refuse to make the investment.

ZIGS
05-08-2012, 06:20 PM
If you want to play games that originated on the consoles: Get a gamepad

http://i.imgur.com/n2t9B.gif

Scumbag
05-08-2012, 08:02 PM
More questions to those who have played it regarding how balls hard it apparently is: Legitimate hard or just goofy kill for for killing you sake hard (bad guy with 200000000 hp as you chip him down avoiding his instakill beam, or invisible deathtrap that causes GAME OVER without warning)? Been talking with a few people who played and did not like because they thought it was too harsh, but they always seem to have to cheat to play things.

In other news, I heard a rumor that the PC port was being entirely built by a giant, eight breasted whore who roamed the world in a giant wooden bowl with chicken legs, snatching children from their beds and flaying their skin which she fashions into dress to scare the townsfolk. Can anyone confirm?

Sketch
05-08-2012, 08:14 PM
Yeah that's true.

It's not so hard in that it's like OH COME ON WHAT THE HELL (though there is one small section of the game that borders on this), but it just requires a lot of attention and you need to use strategy. So often you'll be fighting a boss, get it down to low health and charge in wildly to finish it off and get killed because you're being over enthusiastic, or you'll let your guard down while going around a corner and get attacked and lose most of your health. Basically the game never really screws you over, just punishes you for not being cautious.

gundato
05-08-2012, 08:17 PM
85% of the time, it is fair hard. Almost akin to Godhand if you played that. If you know the enemy patterns and keep your cool, you can win. If you overextend or try to hurry, you die.
Then there is the 15% of the time where it is cheap hard and you WILL die until you figure out the trick/avoid the trap.

Barnox
05-08-2012, 08:47 PM
I was a bit put off by the lack of 'true' PC porting, but after watching some videos, decided to preorder.

Didn't spoil anything for myself I think, I just watched invasion/trolling videos.
Probably going to go Pyromancer as a starting class, unless anyone has some better tips/objections?

Sketch
05-08-2012, 08:50 PM
Honestly it's best to form your own opinions. I played Demon Souls using recommendations and learning for yourself is half the fun. Just try out whatever you fancy.

deano2099
05-08-2012, 08:58 PM
I've been playing games on the PC using only keyboard and mouse for 13 years. Why should I have to buy a gamepad now in order to enjoy a game? Does that make sense to you? Developers are free and more than welcome to support gamepads, but they should never drop keyboard support, no exceptions. Everyone who has a PC has a keyboard and a mouse, it's PC's primary method of imput/control, whether you like it or not

And the game supports mouse and keyboard, so what's the problem?

No, it won't be as good as with a pad, but that's not how the game is designed. Just like GT isn't as good without a wheel, Rock Band isn't as good without a plastic guitar and so on.

Shooop
05-08-2012, 11:30 PM
No, what I am saying is that you get accessories for what you want to do.

If you want to play clan matches or a lot of co-op: Get a headset with a mic.
If you want to play good flight sims: Get at least a joystick, preferably a flight system
If you want to play games that originated on the consoles: Get a gamepad

And don't whinge if you want to play one of those but refuse to make the investment.
There's no good reason why you should have to buy another peripheral just to actually play a game. Peripherals should be optional to improve your experience, not be a necessity.

gundato
06-08-2012, 01:11 AM
There's no good reason why you should have to buy another peripheral just to actually play a game. Peripherals should be optional to improve your experience, not be a necessity.
For the umpteenth time:

Guitar Hero
Gran Turismo
DCS games

You can play those games with the "default" platform controller. Good luck with that.

elfbarf
06-08-2012, 01:17 AM
For the umpteenth time:

Guitar Hero
Gran Turismo
DCS games

You can play those games with the "default" platform controller. Good luck with that.

Don't forget DDR!

Jockie
06-08-2012, 02:44 AM
I was a bit put off by the lack of 'true' PC porting, but after watching some videos, decided to preorder.

Didn't spoil anything for myself I think, I just watched invasion/trolling videos.
Probably going to go Pyromancer as a starting class, unless anyone has some better tips/objections?

Pyromancer is solid, they have the lowest 'level' in terms of starting stats, but that just means they have more freedom in how to develop (and initially they develop more quickly). Pyromancy is also really powerful when you upgrade the pyro glove. It's close range magic and leaves you vulnerable, but if you time it right the damage is great.

I like playing as deprived. The starting gear is awful, but once you know your way around it becomes irrelevant and they have a nice spread of stats allowing you to branch out and make more hybridy characters. I'm gonna be making a character specifically to wield the greatsword of artorias on my PC game, it scales from three stats and has huge potential, but has quite demanding requirements. I may also make a whip based character for pvp until pc players learn how to play the game; for the trolling potential (whips are basically shit).

gundato
06-08-2012, 02:47 AM
Don't forget DDR!

And fighting games, for the most part. Mortal Kombat might be playable with a gamepad (I do, and notice no problems. But I never play MP), but Capcom style fighting games are nigh unplayable with a gamepad and REALLY pretty much require an arcade style stick.

Tikey
06-08-2012, 03:11 AM
I haven't played guitar hero, but frets on fire way of using the keyboard is brilliant:
http://irvingprog.files.wordpress.com/2010/07/frets-on-fire.png

gundato
06-08-2012, 03:33 AM
Also, Resistance 3 with the PS Move Sharpshooter is actually really fun. I am not a fan of Killzone 3 with it, mainly because the latter has realistic guns and I would expect to be looking down the sights. But it worked REALLY well with R3.

But don't worry, that is a game that is just as good (probably better) with the default controller. Just felt like sharing.

Infamous 2 is a similar deal, but I Find just having the PSmove dildo-stick thing to aim my lightning bolts feels "right". But, like I said, purely optional.

Voon
06-08-2012, 04:14 AM
Pyromancer is solid, they have the lowest 'level' in terms of starting stats, but that just means they have more freedom in how to develop (and initially they develop more quickly). Pyromancy is also really powerful when you upgrade the pyro glove. It's close range magic and leaves you vulnerable, but if you time it right the damage is great.

I like playing as deprived. The starting gear is awful, but once you know your way around it becomes irrelevant and they have a nice spread of stats allowing you to branch out and make more hybridy characters. I'm gonna be making a character specifically to wield the greatsword of artorias on my PC game, it scales from three stats and has huge potential, but has quite demanding requirements. I may also make a whip based character for pvp until pc players learn how to play the game; for the trolling potential (whips are basically shit).

But 'un-parryable', which is goddamn annoying if you want to land crit-hits. And yeah, Pyromancy is very powerful. Get some Chaos powers on top of that and you're all set. Killing Smough would be a bit easy with it. Nito would be easirer.

pkt-zer0
06-08-2012, 05:50 AM
but Capcom style fighting games are nigh unplayable with a gamepad and REALLY pretty much require an arcade style stick.
Fighters are playable just fine on a keyboard, for the most part (360/720 moves are a bit of a pain). It's like an arcade stick with buttons for the directions.

Oshada
06-08-2012, 11:55 AM
Hey, Green Man Gaming has Dark Souls for $30 (https://www.greenmangaming.com/s/au/en/pc/games/action/dark-souls-prepare-die-edition-na/). Use the voucher code ORDER-NTCOM-PLETE, it's a special code because they had some errors during sales and wanted to make it up. The code's valid till 1100UTC August 10. I think $30 is borderline, if only it had a demo...

Ravelle
06-08-2012, 12:23 PM
Hey, Green Man Gaming has Dark Souls for $30 (https://www.greenmangaming.com/s/au/en/pc/games/action/dark-souls-prepare-die-edition-na/). Use the voucher code ORDER-NTCOM-PLETE, it's a special code because they had some errors during sales and wanted to make it up. The code's valid till 1100UTC August 10. I think $30 is borderline, if only it had a demo...

I am cautious, hearing framerates aren't fixed it's safe to assume it's a direct port with added content. I'll hold off until reviews are dropped.

Oshada
06-08-2012, 12:50 PM
Yeah, this is one Wot I Think to which I'm really looking forward. Who's the best for the job?

Unaco
06-08-2012, 01:04 PM
I am cautious, hearing framerates aren't fixed it's safe to assume it's a direct port with added content.

It is quite disturbing that they haven't got the framerates/performance sorted yet, and I've heard some horror stories about it as well.

Even worse, and even more disturbing, to go along with the Maximum/capped FPS of 30, there will also be a MINIMUM FPS limit implemented... if you drop below 15 FPS for some duration, you'll get booted from online play. I can see this being something of a problem.

Dominic Tarason
06-08-2012, 01:18 PM
It is quite disturbing that they haven't got the framerates/performance sorted yet, and I've heard some horror stories about it as well.

Even worse, and even more disturbing, to go along with the Maximum/capped FPS of 30, there will also be a MINIMUM FPS limit implemented... if you drop below 15 FPS for some duration, you'll get booted from online play. I can see this being something of a problem.

That's not unusual at all. Stuff like Starcraft 2 and Dawn of War 2 will kick a player out if their PC is crawling along at borderline-unplayable framerates and slowing things down for everyone else.

gundato
06-08-2012, 01:31 PM
I'll bite for 30 bucks. I bought Dark Souls new (for 40 bucks) for the PS3 and totally felt it was worth it, and most signs point to the PC version being as good (if not better) graphically. So worst case scenario: This is used to vote for more ports in the future while I buy the DLC on my PS3. Best case scenario: Expensive DLC and a vote for more ports :p


Fighters are playable just fine on a keyboard, for the most part (360/720 moves are a bit of a pain). It's like an arcade stick with buttons for the directions.
Which is why I cited Capcom specifically. Pretty much everything involves quarter to quintuple circles. Best case scenario, you tear your keyboard up :p

Mortal Kombat has always been really good about that, since it assumed digital input (possibly in button form), which is weird considering arcade machines...

Unaco
06-08-2012, 01:45 PM
That's not unusual at all.

It isn't? I know a lot of games have (optional) maximum Ping... But a minimum FPS limit that works the same way, I didn't think was that common. GFWL games seem to implement it (GTA series for example), but I've heard nothing about SC2 having a minimum FPS.

gundato
06-08-2012, 02:07 PM
I can't speak for SC2, but I do recall people getting kicked from DoW2 for poor performance (not just poor connection).

Voon
06-08-2012, 02:12 PM
Heard it would be the same for Dark Souls.

Unaco
06-08-2012, 02:16 PM
Heard it would be the same for Dark Souls.

It's definitely being implemented in Dark Souls on the PC. Or, it's in the game manual at least.

pkt-zer0
06-08-2012, 06:58 PM
Which is why I cited Capcom specifically. Pretty much everything involves quarter to quintuple circles. Best case scenario, you tear your keyboard up :p
Street Fighter 4 has a scant few 360/720 moves for grapplers only. So, you'll probably have to skip Zangief and T.Hawk, but everyone else is fair game.

Namdrol
06-08-2012, 06:59 PM
I'll bite for 30 bucks. I bought Dark Souls new (for 40 bucks) for the PS3 and totally felt it was worth it, and most signs point to the PC version being as good (if not better) graphically. So worst case scenario: This is used to vote for more ports in the future while I buy the DLC on my PS3. Best case scenario: Expensive DLC and a vote for more ports :p

pretty much this. It's $30 with discount, ffs. I mean I've wasted so much money on games, even if this thing is totally unplayable, I'm happy to support the devs because I loved Demon's Souls so much.

Some people attach too much importance and moral heft to their purchasing decisions, look at all the hand wringing over Diablo III: "anyone who bought that game is the enemy of pc gaming" etc.

Mohorovicic
06-08-2012, 08:47 PM
It's called voting with your wallet.

Just because you have money to burn doesn't mean you should.

db1331
06-08-2012, 09:44 PM
Yeah, this is one Wot I Think to which I'm really looking forward. Who's the best for the job?

I'm wondering what they will get stuck on, Capra Demon or Blighttown.

Voon
06-08-2012, 10:41 PM
Most likely in Sen's Funhouse or the Catacombs shortcut, if you ask me

Kaira-
06-08-2012, 10:48 PM
I'm going to guess that if their playthrough is even close to what mine was, they'll be close to calling it quits first at Blighttown, then Funhouse and finally tearing hair out of head at Penn & Teller.

All this reminds me that I should get around and work my way through Demon Ruins.

Ravelle
06-08-2012, 11:23 PM
I'm wondering what they will get stuck on, Capra Demon or Blighttown.

Man, fuck that Capra Demon. What kind of a person invents a boss battle in a claustrophobic alleyway with three dogs that constantly harass you.

db1331
07-08-2012, 01:20 PM
Man, fuck that Capra Demon. What kind of a person invents a boss battle in a claustrophobic alleyway with three dogs that constantly harass you.

It's only two dogs, but it felt like three. It's funny because my first time through the game, I went into the Capra fight completely blind, with no idea what to expect, and I somehow beat him on my first attempt. I had seen countless threads online of people bitching about how hard he was. I thought I was just really good. Turns out I was incredibly lucky. My next time through the game, I wiped on him for close to 3 hours. 99% of that fight is just surviving the initial 5 seconds. If you can do that and make it to the stairs in the back of the room, your odds go way up.

I was actually fighting him again over the weekend, and losing horribly. My wife was watching and she couldn't imagine how it was possible to beat him. After my 5th or 6th death she asks, "Aren't you getting mad?" I told her no, I was actually having fun.

Barnox
07-08-2012, 01:27 PM
Curse you console gamers!
I bought the game, what more do you want?
Making me want it more doesn't make it arrive any faster.

Is the ingame tutorial (if any) pretty decent for explaining mechanics, or does it horribly miss out things like Parry?
If there's something I'm unable to learn on my own, due to not knowing it even exists, will the tutorial cover it?
(I'm not looking for spoilers, or anything that I could learn by myself. If the game covers it all, just say nothing.)

Goateh
07-08-2012, 01:47 PM
Is the ingame tutorial (if any) pretty decent for explaining mechanics, or does it horribly miss out things like Parry?

You're pretty much left to fend for yourself but I can't recall anything fundamental you should know that you won't learn yourself. Parrying is linked to blocking naturally, though you can't do it with big shields.

The only consideration you might have is reading some basic information on how the stats and skills work. You make permanent decisions and, while you can make most things work, it's possible to waste a lot of souls on dead ends.

If you've not played Demon's Souls either you'll be in some for some tough learning early on. Blocking is your friend, as is taking it slowly in new areas. The repetition of sections between bonfires means that you'll work out your own tactics for the various enemies. I've not played it since the first month of release and I can still remember all the enemies and how to fight them.

db1331
07-08-2012, 02:09 PM
The tutorial does a fairly good job of teaching you what you need to know. There are messages on the floor that tell you how to do most if not all of your moves. You really just have to experiment on your own though, and see what works best for you. For instance, each weapon will have it's own move set, and they all play differently. If you are in a tight corridor and you are trying to swing a sword, you're going to hit the wall more than you hit the enemy. If you switch to a spear though, you can stab straight ahead and skewer all the baddies. Also, pressing forward+light attack with a longsword will allow you to perform a kick that can break your enemy's block, or send them staggering backward off a ledge. Doing the same move with a different weapon, like say a scimitar, might make your character do a quick slash followed by an evasive somersault. Also, some weapons, like spears or rapiers, will let you attack without lowering your shield, so you can do damage while still protecting yourself.

The best tip I could give to new Dark Souls players would be to pay attention to when you can use your white soapstone (co-op trinket). You can put down your summon sign and go into another player's world to help them. The best thing about this is, there is absolutely no penalty if you die. You just get transported back to your world, souls intact. If you succeed in helping the player kill a boss though, you get a bunch of souls you can use to level up or upgrade your gear. Win Win.

So if you are struggling on a boss or can't find your way through a new area, put down your summon sign. Hop in another player's game and see how they do it. I can't tell you how many times I've found a secret wall or hidden loot all thanks to another helpful player. If you get to a fog wall and are carrying a bunch of souls you don't want to lose, drop your summon sign. You get to go in and fight the boss risk-free, learn his attack patterns and abilities, then go back into your game and try and take him down.

Jockie
07-08-2012, 02:14 PM
Parrying is as simple as pressing the parry button at the right time, with the proper tool equipped in your left hand (shield, parrying dagger, or if you're hardcore - YOUR BARE HANDS). Back stabbing requires you to get behind an enemy before striking, you can do a jump attack and a kick as well as the normal light and hard attacks. Combat is not especially complex and it doesn't require dexterous inputs, it's really all about timing, positioning and having the right tool for the job.

Ravelle
07-08-2012, 02:21 PM
It's only two dogs, but it felt like three. It's funny because my first time through the game, I went into the Capra fight completely blind, with no idea what to expect, and I somehow beat him on my first attempt. I had seen countless threads online of people bitching about how hard he was. I thought I was just really good. Turns out I was incredibly lucky. My next time through the game, I wiped on him for close to 3 hours. 99% of that fight is just surviving the initial 5 seconds. If you can do that and make it to the stairs in the back of the room, your odds go way up.

I was actually fighting him again over the weekend, and losing horribly. My wife was watching and she couldn't imagine how it was possible to beat him. After my 5th or 6th death she asks, "Aren't you getting mad?" I told her no, I was actually having fun.

Yeah, getting to the stairs and walking in circles is the trick, those dogs though; blocking your way and attacking you while imminent blades are about to carve your face is pure evil.

Voon
07-08-2012, 02:30 PM
It's pretty much the 'dick move' on the dev's part, there. It doesn't help that the whole place was tiny. Unless you can land one-hit kill sweep attack on both dogs, they'll just keep coming at you. Meat shields with teeth.

db1331
07-08-2012, 02:32 PM
That's another thing I love about the game, how the early bosses become regular enemies later in the game. They kick your ass in the beginning, and you wonder if you will ever beat them. Then later you are taking on 2 or 3 of them at once. It really shows you how much you have improved, and how much stronger your character has become.

laneford
07-08-2012, 02:34 PM
I have never been so grateful to anyone as to two random people who I summoned to help me gang up on Capra and his dogs after dying three hundred odd times trying to get him on my own. 3 v 3 was a much fairer fight.

Voon
07-08-2012, 02:35 PM
That's another thing I love about the game, how the early bosses become regular enemies later in the game. They kick your ass in the beginning, and you wonder if you will ever beat them. Then later you are taking on 2 or 3 of them at once. It really shows you how much you have improved, and how much stronger your character has become.

Yeah, I remember I've spent more than 50 (!) tries to kill the bloody Bell Gargoyles in the Parish and suddenly, at Anor Londo, they're trying to kill me again but I pretty much just brushed them off. They're just too easy now

db1331
07-08-2012, 02:43 PM
Yeah, I remember I've spent more than 50 (!) tries to kill the bloody Bell Gargoyles in the Parish and suddenly, at Anor Londo, they're trying to kill me again but I pretty much just brushed them off. They're just too easy now

Oof. Yeah, on my new character I made over the weekend, I somehow got determined to solo the gargoyles with no lightning resin, just my short sword+5. I was also playing an all dex build without enough stamina to even block their attack, so I was rolling out of the way of everything and just 2 handing my sword. It probably took me 15 attempts or so.

Oshada
07-08-2012, 03:58 PM
Same with the Taurus Demons near the Centipede Demon, I used to be scared stiff of the first boss! Then I just stabbed them with a Lightning Iaito :)

groovychainsaw
07-08-2012, 04:12 PM
For the Capra demon *spoiler(?)*


Run up the stairs (agility and a bit of good fortune helps!), and jump to your right, onto the overhang on the wall. Use a weapon with a bit of range (spear is good) to finish off the dogs and block capra when he runs up the stairs. He will fall off every time you block him. You can either: hit him on the stairs before he strikes or: do the jump attack onto his head after he falls off, then sprint up the stairs again. He cannot hit you more than once on that overhang, and often misses you entirely if you step back, so the fight becomes fairly easy then. 1st 5 seconds is hard though :-).

*/spoiler*

Have to admit, can't wait to play through this again on the PC, I'm going to try and run a char with little/no magic abilities this time, I suspect its going to make the bosses a lot harder...

Bobtree
07-08-2012, 05:53 PM
I got platinum PS3 trophies for both Dark and Demon's Souls, and besides the multiple playthroughs it just becomes a tedious and grindy and boring waste of time (I really hate that you still can't see what something is BEFORE you pick it up, very annoying in NG+). Demon's is still the better and harder game TBH. Dark's "open world" is heavily gated and often linear, though nice looking, but the closer checkpoints just made the design meaner and cheaper rather than actually more difficult. Demon's had some issues, but Dark has had too much of the fun squeezed out of the balance IMHO, it's very much a retread, and I preferred the original's worlds and atmosphere and presentation. The P2P matchmaking has some ugly problems too (it goes by level, not gear+stats, so there's major griefing). I still played 160 hours of it though. The awful framerate in some areas is really inexcusable, but only happens on certain systems afaik (I have the MGS4 bundle 80GB fat model). I mainly played as a medium-heavy armor giant sword tanky type with pyro and healing/buffs secondary and fairly mixed stats for strategic flexibility.

I have a huge set of notes from trying to find out what the Pendant is for, but there are too many holes in the writing and unused bits of the world (inaccessible areas and doors that don't ever open), so now I don't really believe that it does anything. Players have tried pretty much everything sequence-wise and for usage, but it doesn't activate and isn't equippable and the in-game description is for the wrong item (a translation snafu I guess). I will be amazed if something is ever discovered, but probably it's just a red herring.

My favorite message came from helping someone with the Capra Demon on a NG+ run, who ran out of Estas (group healing flask useable only by the host) and had to let me finish him, and said that I rocked. It's satisfying to help win a cheap and aggravating scenario (awful camera, stupid dogs, no room to maneuver, almost an instakill, inconvenient boss area to reach).

That wasn't as great as making my final Demon's Souls NG+ run without being PK'd despite multiple attempts and not dying until the very end though.

The one recommendation I would make for new DS players is that it's much more important to win the boss fights and reach new areas than it is to grind for stats or items, and humanity is also overrated.

Ravelle
07-08-2012, 06:08 PM
I have never been so grateful to anyone as to two random people who I summoned to help me gang up on Capra and his dogs after dying three hundred odd times trying to get him on my own. 3 v 3 was a much fairer fight.

I summoned a dude with the power of a dragon once, he shapeshifted in to dragon skin and spew fire, we steamrolled through mobs and the Gargoyles were instant steak.

Oshada
08-08-2012, 08:58 AM
The magic in Demon's Souls was so overpowered that I managed to OHKO Armour Spider the very first time I played the game at a friend's. Dark Souls has turned that down quite a bit with the charge system. I wish there was a way other than the Dusk Crown Ring to increase them.

laneford
08-08-2012, 10:35 AM
I think Demon's Souls was a better experience as a thing, but I think Dark Souls is the better game.

That said, both are in my all time favourites list, so I'm happy having either for the PC.

Rauten
09-08-2012, 02:00 PM
So from RPS and Eurogamer's write-ups, it seems that:

-GFWL up the arse, as foreseen
-Locked to 30FPS
-Ridiculously lacking graphic options (according to Eurogamer, regardless of your choice of resolution, the game renders everything at 1024x768, ever)
-Keyboard controls are fully customizable
-According to the Eurogamer reviewer, the framerate is much more stable on PC, he specifically mentions BlightTown being actually playable now; Of course, we have no idea what kinda specs had the machine they were using, though.

gundato
09-08-2012, 02:11 PM
Disappointing, but I think the RPS hands-on does a good job. Yes, there are problems, but it is still playable and still fun.

GfWL Sucks: Check
Framerate max at 30: Check, not a real problem, but still disappointing
Poor-ish graphics: This I'll have to see for myself. If it looks comparable to my PS3 version, I am ecstatic
Much less slowdown: WOOHOO!!!!

In other words; Disappointing, but still better than the console version in every way that isn't GfwL (so it still loses to the PSN, but is comparable to XBL :p)

Sketch
09-08-2012, 02:44 PM
I dunno XBL works pretty nicely on the 360...still I don't tend to have issues with GFWL, my issue is that I want to play this with a friend, I know that goes against the spirit of the game, but still it'd be nice to have the option if you want to do that anyway.

Voon
09-08-2012, 04:26 PM
Well, that's a relief. It's not all bad then, aside from fucking GfWL.

Finicky
09-08-2012, 04:37 PM
Well, that's a relief. It's not all bad then, aside from fucking GfWL.
What? Did you read over the part where the game only renders at 1024*720?
This game is now the worst port ever made, including saints row 2 (at least that game supports msaa and will render at any res and will work if you throw enough hardware power at it)

Let me just repeat so it can sink in: 1024x720 locked resolution.

Just holy shit, unbelievably ridiculous.

DaftPunk
09-08-2012, 04:42 PM
Well, that's a relief. It's not all bad then, aside from fucking GfWL.


And locked framerate,resolution.. :|

gundato
09-08-2012, 04:42 PM
What? Did you read over the part where the game only renders at 1024*720?
This game is now the worst port ever made, including saints row 2 (at least that game supports msaa and will render at any res and will work if you throw enough hardware power at it)

Let me just repeat so it can sink in: 1024x720 locked resolution.

Just holy shit, unbelievably ridiculous.

...
THAT is what you classify as "worst port ever made"? Jesus christ. Either you worship graphics, or are the luckiest person ever when it comes to all the bad gameplay ports. :p.

Argue it is a bad port, sure. But the worst port ever made? Wow


Is it a good thing? No. But odds are that it is the same resolution the consoles have been rendering at (the 720 is a good hint), so we will have graphics comparable to that of the consoles. Combine that with turning on your GPU driver's fun visual polishing stuff, and it should be better.

I dunno, I guess I must just be an optimist. To me, a "good port" means "In terms of quality, it is comparable to or better than the source version". And Dark Souls IS hitting that on every nail except for GfwL. So it is disappointing as a PC game? Yeah, but it is still rapidly becoming the definitive version of the game.

Ravelle
09-08-2012, 04:43 PM
And locked framerate,resolution.. :|

I thought they got rid of GFWL, they they reconsider and went with it anyways? :(

Voon
09-08-2012, 04:44 PM
What? Did you read over the part where the game only renders at 1024*720?
This game is now the worst port ever made, including saints row 2 (at least that game supports msaa and will render at any res and will work if you throw enough hardware power at it)

Let me just repeat so it can sink in: 1024x720 locked resolution.

Just holy shit, unbelievably ridiculous.


Oh shut it, it's a straight port of the console game that was never planned. Look, we got something that was at least adequete for us to play with and it being no worse (though no better) than the console version. And we get the new content earlier than the consoles too, so whatever man.

laneford
09-08-2012, 04:47 PM
I dunno, I guess I must just be an optimist. To me, a "good port" means "In terms of quality, it is comparable to or better than the source version". And Dark Souls IS hitting that on every nail except for GfwL. So it is disappointing as a PC game? Yeah, but it is still rapidly becoming the definitive version of the game.

YES. Finally.

It's not the ideal, and its not what i hoped for, but when the original experience is *that damn good* to just get that same experience, even if it doesn't make the most of the technology available, is something for everyone to enjoy.

Rauten
09-08-2012, 04:50 PM
It IS an awfully bad port, but it's still better than the console version was/is/will be.

Also, I'd like to clarify: You're not locked to a resolution, you can choose a resolution, but the game will simply upscale the graphics, because it renders everything at the same resolution, ever. Which is still horrible =S

I'm kinda on the fence. I'd love to play this on PC, and it certainly does seem to be the best version of the game, but it feels so underwhelming, compared to pretty much any other PC release... Also, I'd really like to know the specs of the machine they played the game with; I'd really like having some sort of "benchmark", something that will help me get an idea how the game would run on my rig.

Scumbag
09-08-2012, 05:02 PM
I've not played it yet so cant comment, but while it looks bad, its not THAT bad.
Go try play a load of the early Xbox ports or the Final Fantasy ports. Unless there is a game breaking bug that crashes the game without fail which is never resolved, then it has nothing on FFVII.

Unaco
09-08-2012, 05:02 PM
Look, we got something that was at least adequete for us to play with and it being no worse (though no better) than the console version.

Plain rice is adequate to survive on. But it ain't all I eat.

Voon
09-08-2012, 05:04 PM
Better than nothing.

Techinical hiccups aside, like what laneford said. If the orginal experience itself was that good, even of the port doesn't make the most of the tech, I don't see why it's all that bad.

Unaco
09-08-2012, 05:09 PM
Better than nothing.

True. But my Steam library and wishlist... sorry, my fridge and cupboards, are currently packed with lots and lots of tasty, scrumptious goodies. And so, I have little need for that plain rice (adequate to survive on, but not very exciting) which costs the same as the pork medallions in apple sauce, green salad and steamed veg.

In short... I don't have nothing. And, from the look of it, what I currently have is much more appealing than Dark Souls... er, sorry, plain rice.

Edit: This analogy has made me really, really hungry.

Mohorovicic
09-08-2012, 05:14 PM
...
THAT is what you classify as "worst port ever made"? Jesus christ. Either you worship graphics, or are the luckiest person ever when it comes to all the bad gameplay ports. :p.

Argue it is a bad port, sure. But the worst port ever made? Wow

I cannot think of another port so bad as to not even allow you to set the resolution. It is simply speaking a new low.

Maybe you just don't realize just how bad this is?

You basically have two choices here:
- play the game windowed at 1024x720, which is likely about half of your total screen space
- stretch it either way(or both ways in the case of fullscreen) since resolution of 1024x720 doesn't exist natively and make it look like complete ass
- assuming stretching it is even an option and it won't mess up UI elements and such

This isn't about "worshipping graphics". It's about the bare minimum of comfort. Not playing Deus Ex because it looks bad is one thing, being forced to play in a small window just because the devs are so inept they can't even port a 360 version properly is another.

Sketch
09-08-2012, 05:22 PM
You can set the resolution, the internal resolution is 1024x720 but that will still be upscaled. It's in no way ideal, but it's much different to having the rez stuck at one thing.

Voon
09-08-2012, 05:30 PM
Edit: This analogy has made me really, really hungry.

dammit, man. now i'm hungry too...

deano2099
09-08-2012, 05:31 PM
I cannot think of another port so bad as to not even allow you to set the resolution. It is simply speaking a new low.

Maybe you just don't realize just how bad this is?

You basically have two choices here:
- play the game windowed at 1024x720, which is likely about half of your total screen space
- stretch it either way(or both ways in the case of fullscreen) since resolution of 1024x720 doesn't exist natively and make it look like complete ass
- assuming stretching it is even an option and it won't mess up UI elements and such

This isn't about "worshipping graphics". It's about the bare minimum of comfort. Not playing Deus Ex because it looks bad is one thing, being forced to play in a small window just because the devs are so inept they can't even port a 360 version properly is another.

No.

1771
People don't even read before they comment now do they?

Winged Nazgul
09-08-2012, 05:33 PM
dammit, man. now i'm hungry too...

Dammit...me too.

gundato
09-08-2012, 05:35 PM
Yeah. For the people who have no reading comprehension:

the game is rendered at 1024x720 (or "720p" as the cool kids call it).
The game upscales (or downscales) that to whatever resolution you tell it to.

As an example of how this is not great, but not too bad: Play any particularly old game, and tell you GPU to upscale (while maintaining aspect ratio). Bam, same effect.

Shooop
09-08-2012, 05:36 PM
Be best to wait and see if they patch it. Because 1024x720 resolution is fine sitting on the couch, but not when at a desk. As for worst port? I think that title's claimed by Gears of War. The piece of crap wouldn't even start up on PCs.

gundato
09-08-2012, 05:37 PM
Can probably also give an honorable mention to The Saboteur. Made for ATI cards, but the game didn't WORK with ATI cards.

Still one of my favorite GTA-clones though

deano2099
09-08-2012, 05:44 PM
As an example of how this is not great, but not too bad: Play any particularly old game, and tell you GPU to upscale (while maintaining aspect ratio). Bam, same effect.

Not quite. Fairly sure UI elements will be done separately. Though admittedly can't prove that.

DaftPunk
09-08-2012, 05:47 PM
IF we are discussing worst ports,remember Resident Evil 4,Devil May Cry 3,Onimusha 3 ..

byteCrunch
09-08-2012, 05:50 PM
Yeah. For the people who have no reading comprehension:

the game is rendered at 1024x720 (or "720p" as the cool kids call it).
The game upscales (or downscales) that to whatever resolution you tell it to.

As an example of how this is not great, but not too bad: Play any particularly old game, and tell you GPU to upscale (while maintaining aspect ratio). Bam, same effect.

Not really, if the game is 3D then it will be rendered at the resolution specified, without upscaling, if we are talking pre-3D then you have a point but Dark Souls isn't 2D and this isn't pre-1990s. In any case because "some games did it in the past", isn't an excuse in 2012, a modern game doesn't set it's frame buffer to some fixed resolution and instead upscales/downscales.

Mohorovicic
09-08-2012, 05:58 PM
Yeah. For the people who have no reading comprehension:

the game is rendered at 1024x720 (or "720p" as the cool kids call it).
The game upscales (or downscales) that to whatever resolution you tell it to.

720p is 1280x720, a standard(because all HD TVs use it so by extension, all the consoles) 16:9 resolution. 1024x720 is nonexistant. It's not even a ratio; it's not 4:3, not 5:4, not 16:9 or 16:10.

Now think what will happen when you put that 1024x720 into a standard 16:9 monitor with resolution of 1920×1080. You'll get pixels with proportions of 1.875 to 1.5, or not square, which means it will look like a stretched ass. Or, if you want to preserve aspect ratio, you will play with black bars on both sides; almost like putting 4:3 in your 16:9 screen.

Either way, it's garbage.

Vandelay
09-08-2012, 06:06 PM
You basically have two choices here:
- play the game windowed at 1024x720, which is likely about half of your total screen space
- stretch it either way(or both ways in the case of fullscreen) since resolution of 1024x720 doesn't exist natively and make it look like complete ass
- assuming stretching it is even an option and it won't mess up UI elements and such


Others have said about it not being a fixed res, but if it actually was only capable of being displayed at 1024x720 you would also have the option of maintaining aspect ratio, a setting normally in your video card settings. It gives you the black bars on the side, but is far more preferable to the butt ugly stretching that happens when making a non-widescreen game (or video) widescreen.

So, how does the up scaling work? Will widescreen resolutions look stretched?

I'm kind of conflicted with this one; on the one hand I'm pleased they listened to the demand and want to encourage further multi-platform projects on franchises that don't necessarily get them. The game also sounds awesome and an expirement I want to see continued. At the same time I do not want to help encourage companies to do half-arsed jobs (I don't think that is the case here, but others might see it as justification.)

Definitely waiting on reviews.

SirKicksalot
09-08-2012, 06:13 PM
If the console version doesn't look stretched, why would the PC version?

Mohorovicic
09-08-2012, 06:18 PM
If the console version doesn't look stretched, why would the PC version?

All screenshots of the game I could find on GIS were proper 720p. I've no idea where the 1024x720 came from.

gundato
09-08-2012, 06:22 PM
Probably a typo. Someone did exactly what I did: They mixed 1024x768 with 1280x720. But they did it first :p

And quit the frothing rampage. I am not "excusing" it based on older games. I am just saying: You can easily recreate this for yourself (mostly) and see that it isn't a huge deal. Again, it is disappointing,. but it doesn't look horrid.

Or, you know, remember that people have already looked at this on TVs.

And the whole "It is tolerable on a TV, not a monitor" is crap if you ask me. A TV is (usually) a bigger display than your monitor. So while your monitor has a higher resolution, the "image" is stretched even more on the TV. It isn't a perfect comparison, but if it doesn't murder people there, it won't murder people on your monitor.

Plus, you know, I am sure nobody here has EVER watched a downloaded movie or TV show (or instructional lecture, of course :p) at 720 or even 480 on their monitor. I mean, the world would end if someone had fullscreened that and not died, right? :p

khaz
09-08-2012, 06:52 PM
I'm a little confused gundato. Your final paragraph makes no sense to me.

gundato
09-08-2012, 06:55 PM
I'm a little confused gundato. Your final paragraph makes no sense to me.

My point is that many online videos (again, all the legal kinds that are about intellectual pursuits) tend to come in 720p as HD (because 1080p makes a much bigger file). If you have ever hit the maximize button or fullscreened that, you basically have proven that upscaled 720p isn't that bad on a computer monitor, contrary to what some people are believing.

The rest was just me being a jackass :p

Mohorovicic
09-08-2012, 07:48 PM
Well if they really did write 1024x720 while it's really 1280x720 then didn't we just went apeshit over nothing, wow.

SirKicksalot
09-08-2012, 07:59 PM
The console versions are natively rendered at 1024x720 with 2AA and that's unchanged for PC. There are tons of console games rendered at such resolutions. I know some of them appear slightly stretched (Crysis 2 PS3!) but I didn't hear anything about Dark Souls looking odd. I guess it's a question of scaling algorithms?

deano2099
09-08-2012, 08:13 PM
720p is 1280x720, a standard(because all HD TVs use it so by extension, all the consoles) 16:9 resolution. 1024x720 is nonexistant. It's not even a ratio; it's not 4:3, not 5:4, not 16:9 or 16:10.

Now think what will happen when you put that 1024x720 into a standard 16:9 monitor with resolution of 1920×1080. You'll get pixels with proportions of 1.875 to 1.5, or not square, which means it will look like a stretched ass. Or, if you want to preserve aspect ratio, you will play with black bars on both sides; almost like putting 4:3 in your 16:9 screen.

Either way, it's garbage.

No.

First: there are screenshots, go take a look. Just y'know, open one of the articles you're commenting on, just for a second. Do they look stretched? Nope. Hmm.

The console versions rendered at 1024x720 too. Did they look stretched? Nope. Hmm. What could possibly be going on?

Well the image being rendered is squashed, so when it gets stretched it looks right. Magic.

Kadayi
09-08-2012, 10:27 PM
Well after the positive write up on RPS today I decided to pre-order this. Not too fussy about GFWL or the technical aspects tbh, more concerned about the difficulty aspect. It sounds very much like it's a case of judicious planning and tactics and that has some appeal.