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Doctor_Hellsturm
15-03-2012, 04:25 PM
Hello, this might be the wrong place to post this, but i hope it is not.

I desperately want to get some practice in BBLE with playing some campaigns against the AI, but as you all know the AI is pretty horrid. Even more irritating is the fact that it suffers no injuries when simulating matches against the other teams. After a few matches you start to meet ridiculous teams with halflings with mighty blow and strength 5.

I have searched and searched, but does anyone know of any fix/mod/patch to remedy this and make the SP bearable?

Vexing Vision
15-03-2012, 05:05 PM
The AI has three major issues:
a) It has no concept of the game clock. Which means that in turn 16, it's still going to try and move it's cage slowly towards the opponent TD line.
b) It has no concept of when using a reroll, or performing actions according to risk.
c) It has no concept of strategic decisions with skill-ups, instead picking entirely randomly.

The campaign is still good practice. You will learn some good moves and tactics for the team you are playing, not so much the team you are up against. Playing on "Normal" difficulty seems to make the AI somewhat more reliable, but that may just be a myth of perception.

Finally: To play Bloodbowl, play online. Go for it. You will lose your first four games, but you will always see why you lost it.

Screwie
15-03-2012, 08:51 PM
There was a mod on there called New Wave... it did the best it could with Cyaniade's AI by assigned players of each race a more sensible "AI role" (which also affects their turn order). It's not perfect, but it's certainly an improvement and managed to cover a few of the AI's most glaring idiocies.

It also added 100+ new teams for single player mode variety and some new standard formations (although I don't think all of them worked). All the mod's changes are for single player, so it won't cause any conflicts or prevent you from playing multiplayer.

This mod could be found on the old official BB forum before it went kaput, I don't know where its proper home may be now.

If you go hunting for it, be aware there is an older version of the mod with the same name that was for the BB Dark Elf Edition and earlier. And if you find it, make sure to always back up your install before trying any mod.

EDIT: Actually this might be it (http://bloodbowldigital.com/forum/index.php?f=5&t=3277&rb_v=viewtopic), but I can't say for sure.

Ian
21-03-2012, 12:30 PM
You really are just better off learning from beatings dished out by human opponents.

mrpier
21-03-2012, 01:13 PM
Just to be contrary I'll actually defend the Blood Bowl AI a little, it does a decent job with a game with such complex rules. I think it's a good way to learn the rules and the quirks of the cyanide implementation of them without getting demolished by a human opponent. It will give you an idea when starting out about the most obvious strengths and weaknesses of the different teams. It does have serious flaws as described by Vexing Vision, although the skill selection is no longer random, but preset at various TV-levels for the different AI-teams so high level AI-teams actually have decent skill-selections now.

The AI wont prepare you for meeting human coaches, but it's a decent enough intro to the game.

Screwie
21-03-2012, 01:27 PM
I play against the AI mainly to develop team growth strategies and test out skills and skill-combos I've not tried before. The AI does not compare if you want to learn how to be competitive but it has its uses and is a good grounding for learning the rules.

ntw
22-03-2012, 08:04 AM
Playing against a decent human is always best - if they are nice they will tend to offer you advice if you ask for pointers...

OrangyTang
05-05-2012, 09:20 PM
Along a similar lines - is this worth getting if all I'm interested in is the (turn based) single player? As a recovering GW junkie Blood Bowl was just getting out of fashion as I was discovering it, so never really played the table top game, but it always sounded much faster and more tactical than WH and 40k with the focus on 'epic' battles.

Squiz
06-05-2012, 02:01 AM
In that case I'd wait for a really good deal to pop up. The principle of the game are the different tactics and playstyles the races/teams are employing. Since the AI doesn't represent this very well, you wouldn't get much fun out of the single player mode.

DarkFenix
06-05-2012, 03:35 AM
I only learned the rules by playing against the AI. Then I learned tactics, strategy and team building by reading threads on the official forums. Then I finessed that all by playing against real players.

Given the somewhat sedate pace and it being a turned-based numbers-heavy game, it's perfectly possible to learn how to play just from reading, so long as you're familiar with the rules. In your first few real games you'll make some really stupid mistakes, but after being punished really horribly for them you'll learn.

It also helps to start out with a nice easy team. Ideally this means a team that at least can bash, can handle the ball and most definitely has expendable or super-tough players you can throw under the proverbial bus to salvage your stars.

Jiiiiim
06-05-2012, 09:03 AM
Playing the AI is very soothing, though it's pretty hard to lose (they're most awkward with elves, I've found). It's a good way to learn the rules, it's not a good way to learn tactics.

OrangyTang
13-05-2012, 02:18 PM
Cheers guys, looks like I'll skip this one since I have no interest in multiplayer.

A shame, but it's not like I don't have a backlog of other games begging for attention...

Jiiiiim
17-05-2012, 11:08 PM
I've been trying out some SP experimentation with goblins. I'm not sure if it's just the fact that I alt-tab like a massive tabber, but ever since the last big patch, the AI does absolutely nothing at all if you end your turn on a failure (a skull on a block, a failed pick-up, a failed dodge...). It just stands there. For four minutes.

Screwie
18-05-2012, 09:11 AM
Hmm, not encountered that exactly, but I've found that can happen if you take a Wizard and let the 15s Wizard timer run out instead of cancelling it?

mrpier
18-05-2012, 09:32 AM
I think it's when you have a wizard but don't use him you get that?

Edit: Yeah exactly :)

Dr_Mechano
18-05-2012, 11:06 AM
I've been trying out some SP experimentation with goblins. I'm not sure if it's just the fact that I alt-tab like a massive tabber, but ever since the last big patch, the AI does absolutely nothing at all if you end your turn on a failure (a skull on a block, a failed pick-up, a failed dodge...). It just stands there. For four minutes.

Yup because they've changed the way the Wizard works (could only be used during your turn, now can be used at the start of your turn or the start of you opponents turn) it will invariably bork up the AI if you take one.

Vexing Vision
18-05-2012, 11:15 AM
I saw this myself - still being a temporary laptop-gamer, I was looking forward to some fun SP campaign games.

This AI error even pops up when the opponent takes a Wizard. So... I stopped playing SP again.

Screwie
18-05-2012, 11:23 AM
I didn't know that. Damn, that's appalling.

The Wizard implementation is just a huge farce. Rather than a pop-up reminder a la the Apothecary, or an alternative "End Turn" button with the Wiz spellbook on it... they chose this. Any option which would interrupt the end of YOUR turn and not the start of your opponents' is so obviously preferable and less dangerous, I am incredibly surprised they went this route (but somewhat less surprised they then fecked it up).

Dr_Mechano
18-05-2012, 07:39 PM
The other thing that put me off is you only get a very short window in order to use it and it means you can't combo it since you can't just use it at any point during your turn anymore.

When and if I took a wizard it'd use it as part of a sequence but now you can only use it on its lonesome and then plan around that instead.

ChainsawHands
18-05-2012, 07:56 PM
The other thing that put me off is you only get a very short window in order to use it and it means you can't combo it since you can't just use it at any point during your turn anymore.

When and if I took a wizard it'd use it as part of a sequence but now you can only use it on its lonesome and then plan around that instead.That is how it's suppose to work: either start of your turn before you've done anything, or immediately after the end of your turn. (Page 70 of the rules.)

pakoito
18-05-2012, 08:06 PM
There was a java version of bloodbowl you could play offline and was half decent. AIBowl was the name, but it has changed over time.

Screwie
18-05-2012, 11:09 PM
The other thing that put me off is you only get a very short window in order to use it and it means you can't combo it since you can't just use it at any point during your turn anymore.

When and if I took a wizard it'd use it as part of a sequence but now you can only use it on its lonesome and then plan around that instead.

On the time limit, you have 15 seconds to activate a spell and then an unknown but longer amount of time after that to choose the target square. So the 15s is only there to confirm or deny you want to use the Wizard. (It's still dumb as hell.)