Gearbox tries to make up for the clusterfuck of false promises that was Borderlands

[ZIGS]

http://www.borderlands2.com/loveletter?x

I actually find this rather pathetic but hey, at least this time we get a proper PC game, even if half of those things mentioned should be a given and shouldn't require a fucking fanfare

[Flint]

Agreed that most of those things should be obvious default things for any PC port, but considering the last time it's still brilliant news. Plus, while most of the time I find Gearbox's attempts to be funny a fair bit too wannabe-funny, I did actually quite like this letter.

[ntw]

Awesome, I'm coming back to you Claptrap, did you miss me baby?

[Zephro]

I really liked Borderlands 1 so meh.

[vinraith]

Glad to hear they're planning to resolve the interface, graphical, and connectivity issues that plagued the original, here's hoping they follow through. I quite enjoyed Borderlands 1 (and am replaying it with a friend right now, actually) but having to run a 3rd party configuration tool or tweak .ini files to handle very basic interface elements is ridiculous, and the connectivity problems at launch (I've had no problems lately) were absurd.

[Althea]

FoV slider? You want me to forgive you for the headaches and nausea by giving me an FoV slider?

Takes a bit more than that, and should-be-standard features to win me over.

[Vexing Vision]

I forgive them for including offline LAN mode.

Shame about lack of split-screen, but hey. Offline LAN mode games will be purchased repeatedly in this household, yes yes.

[Memph]

FoV slider? You want me to forgive you for the headaches and nausea by giving me an FoV slider?
Takes a bit more than that, and should-be-standard features to win me over.

This ^
Albeit to an extent it'd be self defeating now to shun attempts to reconcile. That they're happy to admit BL PC was broken still begs the question why they haven't bloody sorted that out yet.
The best way they could sell BL2 to me now is to fix BL1.


edit: btw anyone else unable to load the page? black screen is all what firefox gives

[apricotsoup]

Yes it should be in, but I'm more than happy to sit through these advertising apology things if we start getting a full range of options in games again.

Some companies seem to be starting to care about us again now they've seen there is money to be had and I'm glad for any slight return to form we can get.

[Sketch]

I actually really like Gearbox. Despite DNF which, for the most part the problems with that I doubt were their fault, at least here they are putting their hands up and admitting that Borderlands 1 had issues. Ideally it would be in from the start but at least they can recognise where they are wrong, not like all companies out there.

[Mihkel]

I don't mind the lazy port when they get the gameplay right (no numbers-style shooting, or make real hitboxes where HS actually counts instead of just doing more damage​).

[CMaster]

The link at the top just gives me a page that never actually loads - I get a black background and a title, but that's it.


I don't mind the lazy port when they get the gameplay right (no numbers-style shooting, or make real hitboxes where HS actually counts instead of just doing more damage​).

I think perhaps you don't get what Borderlands was trying to do.

[sabrage]

I think perhaps you don't get what Borderlands was trying to do.

I don't think Borderlands gets what it should be doing. Actual combat>loot harvesting.

[BenWah]

Borderlands was awesome!!

[random_guy]

Between this and Saints' Row the Third, it's good to see developers taking notice of complaints with lazy console ports. I agree with others in this thread that the PC platform seems to be finally growing in importance again. But do you think that's because more people are actually playing on the PC, or the industry's finally waking up to realise that retail sales figures are misleading, because they don't account for digital sales?

As to Borderlands 2, I haven't been following it - does anyone know if it'll have a little more depth than the first one? Borderlands was addictive, but it all felt too samey after not too long.

[squirrel]

I dont understand why developers are so eager to segregate us from XBOX and Playstation gamers.

I check the list, all of them can technically be possible to be offered to game console version players, even those regarding video setting, if platform maintainers are willing to share the tech specs. Look at how gorgeous those PS3 1st party games are.

And I always wonder, not just for this game but for all cross-platform games, that why you need a PC-specific UI? You support mouse+keyboard control on game consoles and it solves all the problems, doesn't it?!

And I am deeply concerned about "Cloud Saving". By saying "Support", do they actually imply "Compulsory" so that the game will become online dependent for them to have every control on us to play this game? If so, then such is not a feature, it is a restriction they impose on us.

[Hypernetic]

I remember when tweaking .ini files and such was considered a benefit of PC gaming and not something to whine about.

The only thing I really disliked about Borderlands was that it used Gamespy and the connecivitiy issues when it first came out. I remember it took my friends and I about an hour to get all of our routers setup and then figure which one of us was able to host (we kept timing out).

But yeah, it was still a great game.

edit: oh the in game voice was atrocious too, I forgot about that.

[Heister]

The thread title also applies to the new Red Orchestra 2 beta. Just swap Gearbox with TWI and Borderlands with RO2.

[vinraith]

I remember when tweaking .ini files and such was considered a benefit of PC gaming and not something to whine about.

It is a benefit, for when you're trying to do something unusual. It shouldn't be necessary, however, to do things like turn off the idiotic mouse smoothing or adjust the god-awful FoV.

[Hypernetic]

It is a benefit, for when you're trying to do something unusual. It shouldn't be necessary, however, to do things like turn off the idiotic mouse smoothing or adjust the god-awful FoV.

Fair enough.

[Mihkel]

The link at the top just gives me a page that never actually loads - I get a black background and a title, but that's it.



I think perhaps you don't get what Borderlands was trying to do.


I don't know man. Borderlands was WoW in a FPS from for me. I can't have fun in that game if there's only me or me and a friend playing, definitely need at least three players.

[Tei]

I trought "Smoothing Mouse" is something people want to disable.

And "Smart Matchmarking" is a console thing that almost always never work. Because a computer is never smart.

Because in a game like Borderlands you may want to join games with other 3 people (not games with 1 or 2 players), or you may want to play with people with DLC X and DLC Y, but not DLC K. So I doubt a matchmaking thing can compare with a server browser.

Hoping for the best, anyway :D

[victory]

And "Smart Matchmarking" is a console thing that almost always never work. Because a computer is never smart.Huh? It's in no way a "console thing", and it's easy to get almost perfect matchmaking for certain types of games, mainly competitive 1v1.

[Tei]

Huh? It's in no way a "console thing", and it's easy to get almost perfect matchmaking for certain types of games, mainly competitive 1v1.

Its a console thing. The PC thing is having a server browser.

Doom, Doom2, Quake, Quake 2, Unreal... none of these games had a matchmaking thing. The need of a matchmaking thing exist because a lot of console games don't have dedicated servers, only p2p gameplay.

[CMaster]

I still can't get the page linked at the top of the thread to work. I've disabled adblock. I've passed the agegate. I've even tried Internet Explorer. No avail, I just get a completely blank screen. So anybody mind telling me what it actually says?

[tossrStu]

I still can't get the page linked at the top of the thread to work. I've disabled adblock. I've passed the agegate. I've even tried Internet Explorer. No avail, I just get a completely blank screen. So anybody mind telling me what it actually says?

BL2 will have the following PC-specific features:

* FOV slider
* 100% mouse-usable menus/mouse wheel scrolling
* Remappable keybindings for keyboard/mouse
* PC-specific UI
* Native multiplayer matchmaking
* Push to talk
* Logitech keyboard support
* LAN support (including offline mode)
* Control pad support
* Integrated v-sync option
* Support for higher resolutions
* Mouse smoothing options (can be disabled completely)
* Cloud save support
* Achievement support
* Friends list support
* No port forwarding support

[victory]

Its a console thing. The PC thing is having a server browser.

Doom, Doom2, Quake, Quake 2, Unreal... none of these games had a matchmaking thing. The need of a matchmaking thing exist because a lot of console games don't have dedicated servers, only p2p gameplay.Dedicated servers and server browsers do not find equally matched players for you.

[Tei]

Dedicated servers and server browsers do not find equally matched players for you.

What the fuck is "equally matched players"? Do L4D select for you Versus servers with people of exactly your skills?

Sounds like another PR lie that is accepted in the console world, because people there don't know better.


Borderlands 1 had a server browse, ... a bad one, but was complete enough to work. With it you was able to see the level of the host before joining, so you was able to join people of your level.

The Borderlands 1 server browsers was ugly, the list was too big, was slow, and lack details. But 0.00001 is still more than 0, with a matchmarker you end stupidlly looking at a rotating icon.

[apricotsoup]

I assume the equal matching will simply be level/equipment matching. Something l4d didn't have to worry about.

Either way I'm very unlikely to play with anyone I don't already know so as long as setting up a game is nicer than the first with a roomfull of us wondering what the hell our gamespy passwords were I'll be content.

[MrN]

A lot of the stuff in there are the sorts of things that should be standard anyway, and not need to be spelled out for us. I just hope there's less brown in the game because that's the one thing that was a big turn off for me while playing: the samey ness of the areas. I know it was supposed to be some sort of desolate wasteland, but I just got bored of it after a while, and had to force myself to finish the game.

[Kaira-]

What the fuck is "equally matched players"? Do L4D select for you Versus servers with people of exactly your skills?

You know how some games track your K/D-ratio, compares it to other players in the same game and sets ranks for you? Like, um, in Starcraft 2, you know.

[alset85]

The first really good matchmaking system was for Warcraft 3, and then the guy who made it went on to make the Xbox/Halo one.

[victory]

What the fuck is "equally matched players"?Players with similar skills? English isn't my first language though.


Sounds like another PR lie that is accepted in the console world, because people there don't know better. Come to think of it, my Antec Intel Inside console here has been matching me weirdly. It puts me against so skilled people that I have to try really hard to beat them, and I often end up losing, which is not nice. And once it matched me against five Protosses in a row. The matchmaking being fake explains everything. :-(

[Danny252]

http://www.borderlands2.com/loveletter?x

I actually find this rather pathetic but hey, at least this time we get a proper PC game, even if half of those things mentioned should be a given and shouldn't require a fucking fanfare

What, only half? It's about 50% "options I've been able to set in most games since 1995" and 50% "things that the Steam overlay provides anyway" as far as I can see.

I also have no clue why having V-sync is such a big thing - isn't it just a case of putting GraphicsEngine.setVSync(true) somewhere in your code?

[victory]

What, only half? It's about 50% "options I've been able to set in most games since 1995" and 50% "things that the Steam overlay provides anyway" as far as I can see.If I understand correctly, most of the Steam-based features listed are not automatically provided by Steam and require support from the game. The rest should absolutely be standard for a PC release, but is not in today's market.

ZIGS, I agree that the features do not "require a fucking fanfare", but I don't see Gearbox expecting one, and what they are doing is anything but pathetic. They are admitting the last time was a mess, and fixing it; what more do you expect? I'll jump on the "pathetic" bandwagon if, and only if, a developer starts expecting the fanfare.

[Tei]

You know how some games track your K/D-ratio, compares it to other players in the same game and sets ranks for you? Like, um, in Starcraft 2, you know.

Well.. that make sense, but that is a RTS, where theres stats to track. In a game like Borderlands, what star you will track so you play "with people of your level"? Also, the freedom problem. What If I want to play with people with more skill than me to learn to play better? What If the game think I suck (because I am starting) and always put me with idiots, so my stats never get better because the team wipe again and again?

I am very happy about Borderlands 1, the Borderlands 1 DLC's, and I am looking forward for Bordelands 2. The networks goods allowed me to play the game, even forward ports, so my experience with BL1 has always been happy and smooth :D

[ZIGS]

ZIGS, I agree that the features do not "require a fucking fanfare", but I don't see Gearbox expecting one, and what they are doing is anything but pathetic. They are admitting the last time was a mess, and fixing it; what more do you expect? I'll jump on the "pathetic" bandwagon if, and only if, a developer starts expecting the fanfare.

It's pathetic because they promised a good port for the first Borderlands, didn't deliver, didn't fix most of the problems and never even acknowledge they fucked up. Then they realized the game sold like hotcakes regardless and suddenly they're PC gamers best friends.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're finally getting a good game but their attitude IS pathetic

[HP Craftwerk]

I'm stil trying to figure out what the "False Promises" were made by gearbox of Borderlands 1? I went and re-watched all the ads /trailer and even checked out some interviews... they mention..lots of guns, co op.. more guns and a general air of fun. Which I think they delivered on. Yea, it had its fair share of issues, but they weren't game breaking (that couldn't be fixed with a 30 sec config tweak) for me and my pals that put 500+ hours into together it easily.

There seems to be this rash of thinking these days that developers are / were promising something to the players, when I never hear the actual word anywhere near the game. Cant wait for Borderlands 2!

[ZIGS]

They said in some interview that the PC version would be... well, basically what they're promising BL2 on PC is gonna be

[HP Craftwerk]

what interview?

[victory]

It's pathetic because they promised a good port for the first Borderlands, didn't deliver, didn't fix most of the problems and never even acknowledge they fucked up. Then they realized the game sold like hotcakes regardless and suddenly they're PC gamers best friends.
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad we're finally getting a good game but their attitude IS patheticI understand you are pissed about how they screwed up with the first game, and (apparently) screwed up damage control and generally failed to act like decent people afterwards. And I see how that was pathetic.

But I don't see anything wrong or pathetic so far in what they are doing surrounding the BL2 launch. Is the robot letter positing them as "PC gamers best friends" whose shit doesn't stink? To the contrary, the letter (humorous as it may be) acknowledges that they fucked up the last time, are not in good standing with the PC crowd, and want to do better.

[The JG Man]

And "Smart Matchmarking" is a console thing that almost always never work. Because a computer is never smart.

I'm not going to argue on there not being a server browser, but matchmaking with skill is possible, definitely. There's not a lot on it, but Xbox Live has some algorithms that analyse, well, a lot. Much more than we may realise. With Halo: Reach, Bungie talked about how they then built on top of that their own algorithms. It wasn't perfect, but 95% of the time I played, it was with people who were around about my skill, definitely. I'm sure they did a dev blog on this, but I wouldn't want to go sifting through all the pages.

What I'm saying is, it's possible, but no, it's not usually accomplished.

[TailSwallower]

(that couldn't be fixed with a 30 sec config tweak)

Except it doesn't actually fix the problem. The FOV tweak is undone by the game every time you get into (or is it out of?) a vehicle, and possibly every time you come out of zoom, meaning you have to bash the button that fixes the FOV almost constantly. When the only other option is to get nauseous playing the game, then you can see why a lot of people are pissy about it.

Before they try and make good on BL2, I'd prefer they went and fixed BL1. I'm not buying 2 - perhaps ever, or at the very least not until it's on sale for some ridiculously small amount. If they fixed 1 then I'd consider getting 2 on release 'cause I've got friends I could co-op with, but as it stands they aren't getting that kind of money from me.

[vinraith]

Except it doesn't actually fix the problem. The FOV tweak is undone by the game every time you get into (or is it out of?) a vehicle, and possibly every time you come out of zoom, meaning you have to bash the button that fixes the FOV almost constantly. When the only other option is to get nauseous playing the game, then you can see why a lot of people are pissy about it.

You forgot "every time you sprint," the game is almost constantly resetting the FoV in normal play. The best you can do is map "change FoV" to "w," but even then you're constantly having the FoV "pop." It doesn't bother me, but I'm not sensitive to these things the way a lot of folks are (and I'm grateful for that).