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View Full Version : I want games with stories that END!



Alez
03-06-2011, 01:19 PM
I had enough of this sequel way of thinking. I just finished Witcher 2 and while it is game of the year, it ends EXACTLY like Dragon Age 2.

"Kinda SPOILERS REGARDING BOTH"
In DA2, things are happening, they are building up to a big war and...and....our hero walks out through the city gates. Like he had enough for now.

In Witcher 2, things are happening, they are building up to a big war and...our hero leaves a city through the gates.
"END of SPOILERS"
Am i the only one pissed off about this?

I agree that it feels weird to save the world and then have a sequel, just like DA2 for example, but it's much better than "to be continued".

Is this the future of stories in games? Just a long drawn out story that goes nowhere? Is this what most people want or just what game developers shove down our throats?
Is it now ok for developers to say "it's part of a trilogy or whatever so it's ok for the first games to be useless story-wise"?

venn177
03-06-2011, 01:21 PM
If a game is popular, that means money.

A sequel has name power, so obviously a game that's popular is likely to get a sequel, as they already have a dedicated fanbase that'll buy the game.

More sequels=more money. Simple equation.

Berlin
03-06-2011, 01:30 PM
The ending's the worst part of The Witcher 2, and yeah, I did wish it to be better after those 20something hours I spent with it but still: it makes me want more and that's precisely why I'd love to hear something about Witcher 3 already. The point is: if a game has a number at the end then it's only natural that it's not going to be a complete story - want has nothing to do with the problem...

But, defending The Witcher, the plot indeed IS wrapped in this game during the last conversation you have in the game with You-Know-Who. This is the ending and does it really make a difference whether it's just plain dialogue or a bombastic cinematic?

tssk
03-06-2011, 01:31 PM
What about Portal 2? It managed to answer all the questions raised by the first game and pretty much tie it all off with a pretty bow. One of the best single player campaigns ever IMHO.

nayon
03-06-2011, 01:36 PM
What about Portal 2? It managed to answer all the questions raised by the first game and pretty much tie it all off with a pretty bow. One of the best single player campaigns ever IMHO.

I didn't like Portal 2's ending, because nothing really happens in the game. It ends very similarly to the first game, and neither of the two main characters undergo any changes, and the insignificant new character remains insignificant. The interesting plot thread explored throughout the game (the origin story) is brushed off and goes nowhere. Big deal?

Alez
03-06-2011, 01:38 PM
Yeah portal 2 was very nice. I wouldn't have minded either way actually since it was never about the story, only about the puzzles and funny dialogue.

But in a game that calls itself RPG, even "action RPG" i would like some god damn closure.

Edit: @ Nayon, exactly because nothing happens in the game is why i liked the ending. Because there was nothing i needed to learn that wasn't explained. The game didn't end in a cliffhanger. It gave me almost nothing of a story so i wasn't invested in it like i was in...Witcher 2 for example. I only cared about the funny characters, which all had a conclusion.

EndelNurk
03-06-2011, 01:41 PM
What did you think about Mass Effect? The first game ended quite successfully, I thought. I found closure in the plot even though the whole Shepard storyline was not finished. Or are you looking for something that ends entirely with no option of any further story?

Alez
03-06-2011, 01:59 PM
What did you think about Mass Effect? The first game ended quite successfully, I thought. I found closure in the plot even though the whole Shepard storyline was not finished. Or are you looking for something that ends entirely with no option of any further story?

To my shame, i don't remember very well the first one's ending.
And to answer your question, i want something like Dragon Age 1. That tied things up very nicely i think. Maybe a wee bit with morrigan could have been resolved but no biggie. So yeah, pretty much something that ends everything mentioned in the game. Is it so crazy to want a game's story to stand on its own?

EndelNurk
03-06-2011, 02:03 PM
No it's not crazy. I understand your wish for resolution. Arguably the resolution is kind of the point of a narrative work anyway. I have no real argument with you to be honest. I'm glad the Mass Effect story carried on because I really love Shepard but apart from that I would agree with you.

J-snukk
03-06-2011, 04:41 PM
I think we should all look to Red Dead Redemption for a story given proper and thematically apt resolution.

smackybutts
03-06-2011, 04:44 PM
I had a grumpy hatred for Borderlands for a while after I beat it. The ending was basically "Oh, that happened. Thanks for playing."

Shakermaker
03-06-2011, 04:53 PM
I think we should all look to Red Dead Redemption for a story given proper and thematically apt resolution.

Agreed. Or LA Noire for that matter.

mbp
03-06-2011, 05:04 PM
100% agreed

I love finishing things and one of my biggest pleasures in gaming is the moment when you vanquish the big bad boss and save the world ta da...

Even if they are secretly planning episode 2 they should at least leave you with the temporary illusion that you are the hero of the day and that everything is going to be alight now.

J-snukk
03-06-2011, 05:05 PM
Agreed. Or LA Noire for that matter.

If my LA Noire doesn't finally arrive tommorow, I may be forced to post pictures of my phallus on 4chan in rage.

Jockie
03-06-2011, 05:19 PM
I felt there was a pretty clear distinction in The Witcher 2 between plot and story.

Minor Spoilage
The driving factor of the game was always the 'Assassin's of Kings' plot and while you do get caught in larger events, they never seem to be the priority for Geralt (although I suppose to a degree that is dictated by choices made along the way).

So while the plot is concluded, the story goes on.

One thing I do wonder though, is whether they have planned a Mass Effect style trilogy, or plan to keep things going until the games start to suck/they get sick of making Witcher games. I could see two more games potentially from the hanging unresolved threads at the end of Witcher 2.

Alez
03-06-2011, 05:23 PM
LA Noire and Red Dead Redemption are filthy filthy console only games, so they don't exist to me.


Even if they are secretly planning episode 2 they should at least leave you with the temporary illusion that you are the hero of the day and that everything is going to be alight now.

Hey that's actually the best idea yet.

So coming back to the last game i played that made me snap, witcher 2 could have easily withheld lots of info about who was really behind it all and just make me think the little guy was it. And THEN in the third game reveal to me that it was part of a bigger thing.

That way you can only play the second and feel like you accomplished something. But that wouldn't make you wanna buy the next game as much, would it you sneaky developers?

Edit:
So while the plot is concluded, the story goes on.
I understand your point but that's a pretty shitty way of telling a story don't you think?

Shakermaker
03-06-2011, 05:23 PM
If my LA Noire doesn't finally arrive tommorow, I may be forced to post pictures of my phallus on 4chan in rage.

No, I wasn't referring to ....


spoiler

... the death of Marston but the way LAN's story ended. It suits the film noir theme, just like John's demise was a proper way to end RDR.

J-snukk
03-06-2011, 05:29 PM
No, I wasn't referring to [THIS] I meant [THIS]

That's what I thought you were refering to, I am now confused.

Shakermaker
03-06-2011, 05:32 PM
That's what I thought you were refering to, I am now confused.

Good. And you should stay confused until you finally get to finish it yourself. :)

rivalin
03-06-2011, 06:01 PM
If a game is popular, that means money.

A sequel has name power, so obviously a game that's popular is likely to get a sequel, as they already have a dedicated fanbase that'll buy the game.

More sequels=more money. Simple equation.

That's true for films and books too, but a little thing called artistic integrity in those fields mean that at least some film/book/tv series end when they could still make much more money.

Even huge box office smashes like Batman will end, because Christopher Nolan decided that he's making three films and that's it. So it is not really a simple equation, it's more of a statement about how utterly artistically bankrupt the games industry is

Jockie
03-06-2011, 06:08 PM
Edit:
I understand your point but that's a pretty shitty way of telling a story don't you think?

Not really, poorly implemented perhaps, but it's pretty standard device in fiction and even has an academic name. 'Depth theory' is all about imbuing fiction with a sense that there is a world outside the central plot and central characters, a world that existed before and carries on after the tale.

Mr. Icarus
03-06-2011, 11:36 PM
That's true for films and books too, but a little thing called artistic integrity in those fields mean that at least some film/book/tv series end when they could still make much more money.

Even huge box office smashes like Batman will end, because Christopher Nolan decided that he's making three films and that's it. So it is not really a simple equation, it's more of a statement about how utterly artistically bankrupt the games industry is

See, but that seems exactly like capitalizing on the ambiguous endings of prior work. See: Star Wars, Indiana Jones (and they even re-hashed it when he's too old to stand), that futurama movie where the sky splits at the end of it...

LittleLizard
04-06-2011, 12:17 AM
I think we should all look to Red Dead Redemption for a story given proper and thematically apt resolution.

Add Mass Effect. They settled to 3 games (for the Shepard arc story) and they are deserving exactly that. If they do spinoff, doesnt matter. The shepard story is 3 games and no more.

Kadayi
04-06-2011, 12:48 AM
I didn't like Portal 2's ending, because nothing really happens in the game. It ends very similarly to the first game, and neither of the two main characters undergo any changes, and the insignificant new character remains insignificant. The interesting plot thread explored throughout the game (the origin story) is brushed off and goes nowhere. Big deal?

You must of played a different version of Portal 2 to the one I played. AFAIR Chell earns her freedom by saving the complex and GlaDoS having bonded with her, lets her go free.

EndelNurk
04-06-2011, 12:55 AM
You must of played a different version of Portal 2 to the one I played. AFAIR Chell earns her freedom by saving the complex and GlaDoS having bonded with her, lets her go free.

Minor Portal 2 spoilers ahoy:

It's more that GlaDOS simply gives up on trying to coerce Chell. She becomes more trouble than the testing is worth especially given what GlaDOS is planning in the co-op campaign. You are right though, there is character development even for GlaDOS. The very fact that she removes the newly discovered benevolent part of her personality and therefore returns back to her base persona is a part of her narrative arc. The third act beautifully resolves the situation created in the second and closes of the plot nicely.