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hexagonalbolts
07-04-2012, 05:55 PM
Hey all,

I've had a good go at Dungeons of Dredmore and I really enjoyed it, can anyone recommend more roguelikes for me? In particular, I'd like something with a bit more variation than Dredmore. I've never progressed especially far through the game but it still feels like an endless repetition of about 10 identical rooms. I tried the adventurer mode of Dwarf Fortress (I love fortress mode) but that just felt bewildering. I've been playing through the tutorials for Dungeon Crawl: Stone Soup, they're a bit dense, but I'm hoping the game afterwards will be worth it.

Schaulustiger
07-04-2012, 06:09 PM
Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup is great as the next step after Dungeons of Dredmor. Other good choices would be the Doom Roguelike (http://doom.chaosforge.org/) or Tales of Maj'Eyal (http://te4.org/). Both have a graphical interface, mouse support and a modest difficulty.

jnx
07-04-2012, 06:28 PM
Well Ancient Domains of Mystery, or ADOM, is pretty much legend by now.

Malawi Frontier Guard
07-04-2012, 06:38 PM
ToME is fairly easy to get into in its latest version: http://www.te4.org/
There's a great focus on skills you can activate, which is relatively uncommon for a roguelike but fairly close to how Dredmore works.

If you want to have a look at the far end of the complexity spectrum, there's Incursion: http://www.incursion-roguelike.net/

FuriKuri!
07-04-2012, 06:54 PM
I got a solid week of enjoyment out of the Doom roguelike - http://doom.chaosforge.org/

It's definately on the simpler end of the scale but it has an entertaining progression structure regarding the 'challenge' levels.

TailSwallower
07-04-2012, 07:15 PM
Yeah, if you have warm and fuzzy nostalgic feelings about the original Doom games then DoomRL will go down a treat.

There's also The Binding of Isaac which is best described as a Roguelike shooter - so, far from the traditional style of RLs, but a fantastic game nonetheless.

Slight hi-jack: Any good RLs that aren't in a traditional fantasy setting?

hexagonalbolts
07-04-2012, 07:20 PM
Cheers guys, I'll get sifting through

Kaira-
07-04-2012, 07:32 PM
Well Ancient Domains of Mystery, or ADOM, is pretty much legend by now.

ADoM is a fantastic roguelike, but it will absolutely destroy you in the beginning, multiple times. Maybe a hundred times even before you get the hang of things. I'd absolutely recommend it, but it's not that easy for a beginner.

DC:SS is a good choice, and I've heard good things about Brogue, so OP should also check that out.

Kaira-
07-04-2012, 07:36 PM
Slight hi-jack: Any good RLs that aren't in a traditional fantasy setting?

Rogue Survivor takes place during a zombie outbreak. There's also a roguelike which takes huge amounts of inspiration from S.T.A.L.K.E.R., I'll try to get the name back in my mind, but for now it escapes me.

Anyway, a big list of roguelikes by theme here (http://roguebasin.com/index.php/List_of_roguelikes_by_theme).

DevinSmoth
07-04-2012, 07:39 PM
Angband is a pretty easy-ish one to get into, not to mention it's quite similar to nethack.

And Tail, there's a DOOMRL which I've heard is pretty decent, at least.

Althea
07-04-2012, 07:39 PM
More Dredmor.

Hobbes
07-04-2012, 07:46 PM
Dredmor, DoomRL, Slash 'EM - good start points. I'd also recommend Brogue as an opener. One of my friends has taken to Nethack scumming with scripts, he terrifies me in ways that have only been matched by the Great Old Ones.

Bobtree
07-04-2012, 08:12 PM
If you have a Nintendo DS, Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer is outstanding.

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2008/03/play_the_delights_of_mystery_d.php

Kelron
07-04-2012, 09:21 PM
My favourite is still Nethack. You won't get anywhere without the wiki (nethackwiki.com/wiki/Main_Page), there's a huge amount to learn, but it has the advantage of being quick to jump in to and the core game is fairly simple.

Vandelay
07-04-2012, 09:29 PM
I'm quite interested in trying out some roguelikes too, although this is coming from having played The Binding of Isaac. However, I always hear that TBoI is not that much like other roguelikes. As someone who has no experience of the genre, how do they normally differ? I assume it is the combat, but how does the combat usually play out?

Also, are there any good ones on iOS? They sound like a good thing to play on an iPad.

hexagonalbolts
07-04-2012, 09:31 PM
Rogue Survivor takes place during a zombie outbreak. There's also a roguelike which takes huge amounts of inspiration from S.T.A.L.K.E.R., I'll try to get the name back in my mind, but for now it escapes me.

Anyway, a big list of roguelikes by theme here (http://roguebasin.com/index.php/List_of_roguelikes_by_theme).

Aaaah I remember reading about the STALKER roguelike before, I want to find it now! I really enjoyed rogue survivor as well, although it is very hard!

Kaira-
07-04-2012, 10:03 PM
Aaaah I remember reading about the STALKER roguelike before, I want to find it now! I really enjoyed rogue survivor as well, although it is very hard!

Now I remember where it was mentioned - in RPS' coverage of recent 7DRL. GatewayRL was the name. Other fairly interesting roguelikes also mentioned in the article (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/20/the-many-faces-of-roguelikes-seven-days-of-rogue/).


I'm quite interested in trying out some roguelikes too, although this is coming from having played The Binding of Isaac. However, I always hear that TBoI is not that much like other roguelikes. As someone who has no experience of the genre, how do they normally differ? I assume it is the combat, but how does the combat usually play out?

In roguelikes, the combat is traditionally turn-based. The way the turn-based is handled depends on the game. Some games utilize a rather boring way of using turn-based (I'm looking at you, Dredmor) where everyone acts once per round and that's that. Some games (such as ADoM and IIRC DC:SS) utilize a time system where each action consumes certain amount of points - if an enemy is faster than you, he will be able to do more actions than you in the same 'time' (this usually manifests as enemy doing two or more actions for every your action).

Wolfenswan
07-04-2012, 11:16 PM
B (https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/)rogue (https://sites.google.com/site/broguegame/) is great as a start too. It's fairly simple compared to some other RLs, has a few unique mechanics and has a traditional yet elegant interface.

Wolfenswan
08-04-2012, 02:40 PM
ToME is fairly easy to get into in its latest version: http://www.te4.org/
There's a great focus on skills you can activate, which is relatively uncommon for a roguelike but fairly close to how Dredmore works.


maybe I'm playing it wrong, but ToME feels lacking in terms of strategy. You get swarmed by monsters constantly and can't do much about it than spam your healing abilities and fortify in a corner.

Fumarole
08-04-2012, 03:17 PM
As Walter said above:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZGNJ3nLn5Gc

b0rsuk
08-04-2012, 03:29 PM
maybe I'm playing it wrong, but ToME feels lacking in terms of strategy. You get swarmed by monsters constantly and can't do much about it than spam your healing abilities and fortify in a corner.

I feel the same way. Swarms of nearly identical monsters, levels that are huge for no reason.

A highly underrated roguelike - POWDER
http://www.zincland.com/powder/index.php?pagename=about

It's a graphical roguelike with a pleasant style. Witty writing. Lots of variety. Ingenious god system - all 5 gods judge your behavior at the same time. You can gain favors and punishments from multiple gods at the same time. And there's no way to please them all, you WILL make enemies. Fortunately, one god can protect you from another one.
About magic system - the developer has said he only implements spells that require new code. There are few similar spells ! Combat system is interesting because it will see your character able to use more weapons as opposed to less. Many roguelikes highly reward specialization, you marry a weapon type and stick with it for the rest of character's life (Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup).

The game is easy for beginners, because you can examine a monster to get a difficulty rating. Controls are very simple too, just a couple of keys (it was designed for GBA). It is relatively short for a roguelike, and very replayable.

Pertusaria
09-04-2012, 09:44 PM
There's always Desktop Dungeons. I find the older, free version great fun; got the later, cheap version but I haven't played it in a while, so I don't really know what it's developed into. The advantage of Desktop Dungeons is that the dungeons are very small, so death doesn't frustrate as much as it can in a fully-blown roguelike like Nethack.

I also quite like Hack Slash Crawl, which is Flash-based and can be found on Kongregate and elsewhere. No relation to Hack Slash Loot as far as I can tell - I guess they're both fairly obvious titles.

Both of these are RL-lite - e.g. you don't have to eat.

Screwie
09-04-2012, 10:18 PM
Another vote for Brogue here. It's very elegant both design- and control-wise and really pretty compared to most ASCII roguelikes. Despite its simplicity there's still a lot to discover, including natural caverns, vaults, some cunning traps and some funtimes with water and lava.

Madzack
10-04-2012, 03:34 PM
Any good simple real-time RLs, btw?

alms
10-04-2012, 03:44 PM
There's always Desktop Dungeons.

Great game but it has a strong puzzle element to it that sets it apart from proper RLs IMO.

Kaira-
10-04-2012, 10:06 PM
Any good simple real-time RLs, btw?

Diablo (the first) is probably the closest match. Roguelikes tend to be turn-based by definition.

Pertusaria
11-04-2012, 03:55 PM
Yes, Desktop Dungeons' dungeons generally have one or two good solutions, rather than something like Nethack where a lot of the fun is derived from how you cheated death through an improbable series of moves (or didn't). It still contains enough elements of proper roguelikes (potions and scrolls, lasting death, turn-based movement, gods to worship and trade-offs for doing so) that it's a good way of scratching the itch.

Re. real-time RLs or rogue-like-likes, Hack, Slash, Crawl is real-time, which I'd forgotten at the time of my last post. I agree that this makes it not a proper roguelike - I think it's a more important difference than the logic puzzle feel of Desktop Dungeons.

alms
11-04-2012, 04:03 PM
Nethack where a lot of the fun is derived from how you cheated death through an improbable series of moves (or didn't).

netHack is an acquired taste IMO. I always thought of it as an entire different school of thought regarding how RLs should be made, and not just because the key layout which is entirely different from that of Moria/Angband.

The most vivid memory I have of netHack is playing it in my teens, my character was in a sticky situation surrounded by some type of humanoid monster and things were quickly going down the drain. In one last ditch attempt I browsed the inventory and found what looked like an extremely overpowered item, a genocide spell - what a stroke of luck!

So I went on to read the scroll and when prompted for the creature to nuke I gleefully pressed 'p', because after all I am a '@' right? Yeah, right...

Voon
11-04-2012, 04:42 PM
Speaking of Rougelikes, where can I find ZangbandTK? Google didn't help much.


If you have a Nintendo DS, Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer is outstanding.

http://www.gamesetwatch.com/2008/03/play_the_delights_of_mystery_d.php

Wished they put Torneko's Great Adventure in there, too...

Kelron
11-04-2012, 05:03 PM
netHack is an acquired taste IMO. I always thought of it as an entire different school of thought regarding how RLs should be made, and not just because the key layout which is entirely different from that of Moria/Angband.


I've not played Angband stlye roguelikes so much, but the impression I get is they are trying to create more traditional RPG/adventure games with towns and quests and character creation.

Nethack is purely about fighting your way through one dungeon, but you very much have to use your wits to defeat it. It's a lot less unfair than it may seem at first, and the majority of my deaths are situations like getting overconfident and charging in to fight a powerful monster when I could've kept my distance and taken it down with thrown daggers, or forgetting about the wand of digging I could use to escape death. Sometimes you will run into something brutally unfair, like a polymorph trap turning a mild monster into something deadly, but if you take the time to learn the tricks of the game and consider your moves carefully, you find yourself dying a lot less.

alms
11-04-2012, 06:47 PM
Kelron, Moria/Angband was "the new kid on the block" in the early 80s and was born out of the VAX/VMS community (only later made its way back to Unix, as opposed to netHack/Rogue), they started from scratch and tried to advance the formula rather than redo it the same way. OTOH netHack has evolved out of Rogue and maintained features like single screen dungeons and the lack of an outside world.

As a teen I played D&D and read Tolkien so I was more accustomed with the high fantasy tones of Moria, and also thought its features were more advanced (and thus better) than those of netHack. I tend think most people new to RLs will have a similar background, and that's why I said netHack is an acquired taste IMO - although really netHack has never stopped having its followers.

Now that high fantasy has become more mainstream and has been redone to death, I guess many are fed up with it and prefer the sillier, more Pratchett inspired register of netHack.

BTW this trip down memory lane made me remember Omega, it had some very interesting features for the time. Seems there's still something coding it, but no WP page, what a shame!

Ravelle
11-04-2012, 07:12 PM
My first was Desktop Dungeons, my second Dredmor though I prefer DT because I kept dying trying to kick open a door. =x

benexclaimed
19-09-2012, 07:17 PM
Any additional suggestions? I'm most interested in games that have some sort of progression that carries over between playthroughs (even if it's just "Now Item X Can Appear" as in Binding of Isaac).

jrodman
19-09-2012, 07:25 PM
For Moria and its descendents (Angband, ToME) one of the things to learn is dungeon management. How to explore larger spaces in a way that's less likely to wake up lots of enemies. How to check for enemies. How to close doors to keep swarms away. When to leave because it all looks a bit much for you at the moment.

Maybe that's not for everyone, but it's definitely part of the player skillset you need to build.

jrodman
19-09-2012, 07:27 PM
benexclaimed: Yeah, 'progression' feel roguelikes are something I've always wanted. In Moria's children (or at least angband's), there is monster memory, which is a form of something you keep. And is quite useful to the pllayer learning the game. But that's not that tangible.

I've often created my own munckin versions of roguelikes where I get very slight bonuses to my characters based on prior successes, so that it feels progression-y. Yeah, this is cheating I guess, but in the end the benefit is quite slight and it makes it feel more fun for me.

sk2k
19-09-2012, 07:34 PM
Some suggestions.

Red Rogue - http://redrogue.net/

Delver - http://www.intrrpt.com/delver/

Cataclysm - http://www.whalesdev.com/

Boris
19-09-2012, 07:39 PM
If you're looking for a real hardcore roguelike experience, you have to try the master of roguelikes: Nethack. http://nethack.org/

It's fiendishly complex though, and the best I have gotten is up to level 7 on a Human Valkyrie (obviously female), which is considered the easy class. I still do enjoy reading other people's nethack stories though -- the ways the game can kill you are quite funny to read.

DevinSmoth
19-09-2012, 08:03 PM
The newly released FTL is pretty awesome. ;P And it has unlocks that affect your gameplay later on.

Barnox
19-09-2012, 08:20 PM
Something a bit more RPG, but still with random dungeons and a lot of interactions, is Elona.
I've only played Elona+, a continuation of the original, but it is great fun.

It's been featured on RPS here:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/07/05/crazy-like-a-roguelike-elonaplus/

b0rsuk
19-09-2012, 08:49 PM
Any good simple real-time RLs, btw?

Yes, Notrium. An an old one, but a good one. Not strictly a roguelike, but it shares many traits with it (numerous items, random item and enemy placement, the feel of adventure and getting stronger).

It's a sci-fi survival game. You crash land on an alien planet. It has hostile lifeforms, an evil corporation, and a few mysteries. You have to build your weapons and equipment from scraps, look for food, shelter. Weather can make you too cold or cause a heat stroke. There are multiple endings and a few races. Human and Android are the most interesting, Psionic is too unorthodox and Alien is perhaps too simple (and can't really use any items).

http://www.instantkingdom.com/notrium/
It's free.

BenWah
19-09-2012, 09:28 PM
Standouts for me are

Rogue Survivor
http://roguesurvivor.blogspot.com/p/download.html

Unreal World
http://www.jmp.fi/~smaarane/urw_whatis.html

Nethack (I still play this, never gets old)

Someone asked about a realtime roguelike, i guess that's binding of isaac :)

benexclaimed
19-09-2012, 10:05 PM
The newly released FTL is pretty awesome. ;P And it has unlocks that affect your gameplay later on.

I love this one, but I hesitated to mention it since I knew people would want to argue the semantics of whether or not it's technically a roguelike. It's terrific.

b0rsuk
19-09-2012, 11:01 PM
I love this one, but I hesitated to mention it since I knew people would want to argue the semantics of whether or not it's technically a roguelike. It's terrific.

Roguelike games are games which are like the game Rogue. Simple.
http://www.lcurtisboyle.com/nitros9/rogue-80.gif

Even autors of FTL say they use the term loosely. FTL has some traits of Rogue, including random generation(+ high replayability) and permanent death, but not much.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
20-09-2012, 06:35 AM
Im going to vote for ToME myself. Started playing it a while ago, its very very good. I think it might even be getting a 1.0 relase soon enough, and appering on that Steam greenlight thing, whatever that is.
Its made to take any grind away. There are no real items that you can use up and not have later on. I hate having to worry about stuff like that. All cooldown based. Loads of classes, many unlockable classes and races. Also, excellent community. The inbuilt chat channel to other people playing the game is genius. I dont know if other games did it first, but I have never come across it before. And some really nice music in it. Addons exist on the website if you want to change the game (No traps for me, slow down autoexplore) as well as more things i am probably forgetting.

Nikas
27-09-2012, 03:55 PM
http://www.zincland.com/powder/index.php?pagename=about

i think POWDER will be good