Diablo 3 discussion (for those who think they will be playing)

[Skeletor68]

Ok before we start let's get this out of the way. I have no desire to start any flaming or arguments. I disagree with some of the new features and always online etc., but please don't post if that's all you have to contribute and you're not going to play anyway!

With that said, I'm still really excited for May 15th. I have the CE pre-ordered and am really looking forward to going through the artbook, documentary and soundtrack along with the game. Some might disagree but this is one CE that seems like it will be worth the high price.

I'm going to limit some of the features I'm going to allow myself to use so I don't spoil my D2 nostalgia and style of playing. No RMAH, no sharing of loot between characters (for the first few levels anyways) and one of every character besides three barbarians. I know I don't need to have three barbs because of the way skills work now, but I think I'll make one dual-wield, one shield and one two-hander just for fun. Otherwise witch doctor looks like a lot of fun, not entirely convinced by Demon Hunter yet but I didn't play much Amazon in D2 anyways.


There's a comprehensive comparison of the systems in D2 and D3 here:
https://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3811455085.
It's written by a 'hardcore' player apparently and is well worth a read. I only played some nightmare mode of D2 and only played single player so I'm probably not in the 'hardcore' crowd even though I loved the game and played it a lot.

So, anyone else excited, know what characters they are gonna play etc.?

[Phantoon]

Oh, well I won't be, so I guess I won't post in here.

But then I guess I did. Right here.

[Gozuu]

I'll be playing, but without any sort of discussion about it! It will be a game of casualfest for me. I cannot wait to open the box, install it and find my own way through the lovely wonders of Diablo once again. It's been long since DII:LoD and long since I played casual as fuck without any min/max and theory crafting.

Come at me Diablo III !

[Skeletor68]

I'll be playing, but without any sort of discussion about it! It will be a game of casualfest for me. I cannot wait to open the box, install it and find my own way through the lovely wonders of Diablo once again. It's been long since DII:LoD and long since I played casual as fuck without any min/max and theory crafting.

Come at me Diablo III !

Lol, damn everyone wants to post, but nobody wants to stay and talk :(

What you described is pretty much how I played D2 and had a blast. Necro was my favourite character but when I say that online I get all sorts of questions about fishymancers, lagomancers and all sorts of other stuff I don't have a clue about.

[arathain]

Thanks for the link, Skeletor. D3 looks like being as complex a game as its predecessor ever was while removing lots of the unintuitive and obscure mechanics.

Things I am excited about: a skill system that encourages iterative experimentation.

Monsters that die in a satisfying way when clicked on, and lots of dramatic ways to click on the monsters- a high degree of polish.

Great heaps of interesting loot-based choices.

I'm going to flit between playing all the classes, as my fancy takes me, just to try out whatever build I feel like. I am increasingly liking the look of the mobility options available to the Demon Hunter, so perhaps I'll do that first. It is very likely I'll play with others, and I have no intention of using the RMAH. The gold-based one should do fine by me, since I will likely not see the sort of team-focused upper difficulty level content that might require a top tier build.

[ado]

lol at the guy saying "it's just gonna be casual play for me". How can one even play Diablo casually? I mean crack addicts fear this game because it's so addictive.

Anyway, yes I'll be there on the 15th of May, clicking away happily like every other Diablo slave out there. Looking forward to see how the game plays with all the changes from D2; everything I hear so far makes it sound much improved overall, and much more variety friendly. Diablo 2 got kinda silly with so many people playing the exact same build...

[DigitalSignalX]

I too am looking forward to it. I'm confident the basic game will be solid, but the repeatability and the dynamics of hardcore mode is a big unknown. I rarely pre-order games and also have a small insecurity about the big picture past the brief beta content. It's Blizzard though, so if anyone has earned my benefit of the doubt, it's them.

[duff]

I've ordered the CE, I have my reservations about some of the stuff the OP mentioned, but I have such good memories of D2 from my school years (sat in IT looking up Andariels loot table) that it felt wrong not to. Would be awesome to get some RPS groups together for some dungeoneering.

[Skeletor68]

I've ordered the CE, I have my reservations about some of the stuff the OP mentioned, but I have such good memories of D2 from my school years (sat in IT looking up Andariels loot table) that it felt wrong not to. Would be awesome to get some RPS groups together for some dungeoneering.

I would like to finally dip my toes into playing online with nice people! If anyone is looking to play casually (as in aren't just focused on farming etc.) and are looking to just have a bit of craic I'm hoping to have a new ISP by the time this comes out!

[lhzr]

Yay!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-18-the-diablo-3-beta-opens-up

Get the client from here (http://us.media.battle.net.edgesuite.net/downloads/d3-installers/4de82d80-ddeb-4e61-80ae-b4e8817f54b0/Diablo-III-Beta-enUS-Setup.exe).

You can find links to german/french win/mac versions here (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3724212521?page=3).

[R-F]

> Bunch of accounts with 80-ish posts that signed up all at the same time post pro-Diablo 3 stuff.

HOW VERY ODD.

[ado]

Yay!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-18-the-diablo-3-beta-opens-up

Get the client from here (http://us.media.battle.net.edgesuite.net/downloads/d3-installers/4de82d80-ddeb-4e61-80ae-b4e8817f54b0/Diablo-III-Beta-enUS-Setup.exe).

You can find links to german/french win/mac versions here (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3724212521?page=3).

Is this real life?

[Skeletor68]

> Bunch of accounts with 80-ish posts that signed up all at the same time post pro-Diablo 3 stuff.

HOW VERY ODD.

Hope you're not including me, I was here before the forum change-over!

Will Blizzard be censoring character names now that it is always online? I know it's juvenile but I was hoping to continue the illustrious career of my barbarian from D2 'C*ntsmasher'.

I think my favourite Necro was Skeletor and my Druid was (cheesily) Seamus

[cosmicolor]

Yay!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-18-the-diablo-3-beta-opens-up

Get the client from here (http://us.media.battle.net.edgesuite.net/downloads/d3-installers/4de82d80-ddeb-4e61-80ae-b4e8817f54b0/Diablo-III-Beta-enUS-Setup.exe).

You can find links to german/french win/mac versions here (http://eu.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/3724212521?page=3).

I wouldn't get too excited just yet, people on Neogaf who have this downloaded already have been having problems logging in, getting timeout errors, etc. However Team Liquid (http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=330262) are claiming that it's now open, so I suppose there's nothing to lose by downloading it.

[arathain]

> Bunch of accounts with 80-ish posts that signed up all at the same time post pro-Diablo 3 stuff.

HOW VERY ODD.

Humph. I've been reading and posting on RPS since almost the beginning. Be less grumpy.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

I'm really on the fence about this. I hear a lot of good things about it but I never really actually played any of the diablos. I played a bit of torchlight and some Titan Quest and found it to be ok.

I'm intrigued by Diablo 3 but then I wonder if I should just plpay one of the other Diablos first.

[pkt-zer0]

Is this real life?
Is this just fantasy?



(Anyway, got to the main menu, at least. Pretty cool. Nicely 2D except for two crows and some flames in the background)


Bunch of accounts with 80-ish posts that signed up all at the same time post pro-Diablo 3 stuff.
"The same time" being when the forums were reset, or something, no?

[Hypernetic]

> Bunch of accounts with 80-ish posts that signed up all at the same time post pro-Diablo 3 stuff.

HOW VERY ODD.

It must be a giant conspiracy because Diablo 3 is definitely not a highly anticipated game in a much beloved series, created by an immensely popular PC developer.

Nope. Definitely a bunch of shills.

[alset85]

It must be a giant conspiracy because Diablo 3 is definitely not a highly anticipated game in a much beloved series, created by an immensely popular PC developer.Nope. Definitely a bunch of shills.I've noticed RPS lives in some sort of bubble where wildly irregular opinions are considered norm. Don't get me wrong, that's sometimes fine, as popularity=!quality but sometimes things get out of hand.

[Hypernetic]

I've noticed RPS lives in some sort of bubble where wildly irregular opinions are considered norm. Don't get me wrong, that's sometimes fine, as popularity=!quality but sometimes things get out of hand.

Haha, true enough.

[Necroscope]

I had D3 files downloaded as soon as the client was available. BETA was cool. I squeezed the game play juice out with the monk, wizard, barbarian and demon hunter before I decided save it for the 15th! Didn't finish it with the witch doctor.

[arathain]

I agree that D3 doesn't seem like it's a game that has the RPS commenter crowd fired up, for reasons that I understand and largely entirely respect. I've given the issues some thought, and decided that in this circumstance what really matters to me is having the best monsters to click on and the most polished and enjoyable ways to click on them. I don't think the issues, as real as they are, will negatively affect me very much, and these are not amongst the things I care passionately about. I wholly respect those who choose otherwise.

[wuwul]

IMHO always online is a feature, since it means you can display your progress, compete, cooperate, PvP and interact with others in a proper way where people can't cheat (assuming they implemented it properly).

It basically turns it into a MMORPG with mostly single-player gameplay and no subscription fees; those who prefer a traditional single-player action RPG can always just play Torchlight 2 instead (or use a third-party Diablo 3 server emulator).

Personally I love MMORPGs but dislike having to organize raiding with others, so I find this concept very interesting.

[apricotsoup]

I'm looking forward to playing this with a group of peeps from work. Should be some silly loot whoring fun to break up our mostly board-game evenings.

The always online is a big downside for me, but unfortunately not enough to stop me buying it this time :/

[Ravelle]

I'm excited and as long I can grab my rainbow colored loot from the ground I'm happy.

[duff]

I agree that D3 doesn't seem like it's a game that has the RPS commenter crowd fired up, for reasons that I understand and largely entirely respect. I've given the issues some thought, and decided that in this circumstance what really matters to me is having the best monsters to click on and the most polished and enjoyable ways to click on them. I don't think the issues, as real as they are, will negatively affect me very much, and these are not amongst the things I care passionately about. I wholly respect those who choose otherwise.

Right, you have to make a judgement about how much you want the game. D2 is something I've been waiting for for 12 years, so it's fair to say I want it pretty bloody badly. Will always online 'drm' put me off? No because I've pretty much had a constant internet connection since 2000, though I would prefer the singleplayer to be available offline it's not a huge deal for me personally. Will the real money auction house put me off? No, it's completely optional and provides a safe way for people to do something that would have had a massive 'black market' anyway. People did buy and sell items in D2 and people will do it in D3, except this time with an idiot tax that helps fund the expansion. Am I worried about it shattering the gameplay and letting people buy power? Not really, it's a co-op pve game and if people want to cut out the loot hunting aspect that doesn't effect my experience in any way. If you think it's gonna ruin pvp, then playing a chance based gear finding game for the pvp is inherently going to be an 'unfair' experience anyway.

[Bhazor]

It must be a giant conspiracy because Diablo 3 is definitely not a highly anticipated game in a much beloved series, created by an immensely popular PC developer.

Nope. Definitely a bunch of shills.


In the last Diablo article to mention Diablo's problems a whole herd of people I've never heard of came on to defend the ridiculous always on DRM. Just saying.

[lhzr]

Chopper Dave, we have uh-oh, over.

[Smashbox]

Ok - can someone enlighten me on something I'm unable to find a clear answer on?

Will Diablo III "run" (i.e. spawn mobs, run AI, etc.) on my computer's CPU, or is this a WoW-like situation of those tasks being performed on a server? I've heard conflicting statements about how this will work.

I don't think I'm willing to buy it if it's an MMO-like server structure (for various reasons not limited to the fact that those [theoretical?] servers can eventually be turned off).

Otherwise, I really am looking forward to this one. Say what you want about Blizzard, those guys know how to polish and polish and polish.

[apricotsoup]

I believe they've said combat is client side so bad connections aren't as much of an issue (not that this is much of a concession), but as for spawning monsters, everything loot related, xp, etc. it's all server side.

[Bhazor]

It also means you can't pause the game and losing connection for 30 seconds (which will happen 3/4 times a day on a good connection) will dump you back near the start of the dungeon. People are defending this.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

It also means you can't pause the game

Seriously? I'm sure you can pause starcraft 2 (although I may be mistaken)

[Smashbox]

Disappointing I suppose. I reckon I'll wait and see how this works In the real world before buying. I really do wish to play it, though. I wonder if that's how the demo will work, too...

[Timofee]

It also means you can't pause the game and losing connection for 30 seconds (which will happen 3/4 times a day on a good connection) will dump you back near the start of the dungeon. People are defending this.

From watching ones of the yogscasts I'm pretty sure I remember them saying that pausing was added to single player in a later version of the beta

[duff]

It also means you can't pause the game and losing connection for 30 seconds (which will happen 3/4 times a day on a good connection)

Really? That's an awful lot of disconnects.

[Oneironaut]

Pausing the game in single player is possible from what I've played of the beta.

I've got the collector's edition preordered, and I can't wait.

The only issue I have with the game is the always online requirement. I love what they've done with the skill system, crafting, the physics, and all of the classes have been really fun in the beta.

[lhzr]

shill alert!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-20-official-diablo-3-open-beta-this-weekend

[ado]

shill alert!

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-04-20-official-diablo-3-open-beta-this-weekend

Downloading! Dear God I hope I get some sleep this weekend, got a big meeting on Monday...

[Ninjafoodstuff]

Well so much for the stress test, I can't even log in. All I can say is they better get their shit together, all this does is lend credence to the idea there should be an offline mode.

[frenz0rz]

Finally logged in. Is very fun. Back to playing now.

[icupnimpn2]

> Bunch of accounts with 80-ish posts that signed up all at the same time post pro-Diablo 3 stuff.

HOW VERY ODD.

I love the idea of moles in the forum bothering to post 80 times each on various topics before finally blowing cover to support interest in Diablo 3, because we of the RPS forum are truly the tastemakers of the industry

[outoffeelinsobad]

Not trying to hate, but this skill system is not my cup of tea. Similar to MMO style levelling, which is not how I like to play Diablo.

I am digging the physics though. And the epic mobs. And I will purchase it on day one.

[arathain]

I think the skill system will come into its own when you have a bunch more skills, runes and passives, and can really start fine tuning a build.

[Duckee]

I have really mixed feelings. I just played the beta as a Wizard, and I am not entirely sure it is my game. The combat is not as climatic as I would like and the abilities seem a bit dull. I am not even sure I like the always use ability combat, it seems just very simplified. Not to mention the loot. I did not see any interesting drops or unique armor nor was there really any real customisation as I could equip anything I wanted on my mage. I.e. No armor classes or weapon classes apart from the odd offhand. And the health/mana system is just.. why?

I feel that Path of Exile offers a better hack and slash experience in more than one way, and it actually adds a bit of new ideas to the genre, as opposed to simplifying it. I might end up getting D3, as well as playing PoE of course, but it just.. does not feel right.

[icupnimpn2]

I'm still playing the download screen as my 1.5 mbit connection chugs along. I think I can I think I can I think I can. And I'll have like a half day to play.

[Duckee]

Dont worry, the beta is 1-2 hours :P

[arccos]

Just got done with a two hour open beta session, and it feels pretty nice. I like the new skill system, and that you can swap in and out your skills whenever you want. Its pleasant to be able to try out whatever you want without being locked into a skill chain.

Other than the skills, it is odd how little difference the feel is between D2 and D3 for me. I guess the similarity was part of what they were going for, so success there. But I don't know if I see a compelling reason to buy D3 for full price when I have played almost this exact game so many times now. Titan Quest, Hinterland, and Depths of Peril all still interest me.

[Hypernetic]

Just got done with a two hour open beta session, and it feels pretty nice. I like the new skill system, and that you can swap in and out your skills whenever you want. Its pleasant to be able to try out whatever you want without being locked into a skill chain.

Other than the skills, it is odd how little difference the feel is between D2 and D3 for me. I guess the similarity was part of what they were going for, so success there. But I don't know if I see a compelling reason to buy D3 for full price when I have played almost this exact game so many times now. Titan Quest, Hinterland, and Depths of Peril all still interest me.

The most compelling reason for me to get D3 aside from being a huge Diablo fan is playing with my friends. If you have friends who will be picking it up to I'd definitely get it, it's a lot of fun to play with 3 others while on vent/skype/etc joking around.

[pkt-zer0]

I really like the skill system actually, as well as the skill design. The way they're spread into categories (that are optional) is pretty clever. Things start off slow and easy, but that's probably just because it's the introductory part - you can blaze through it rather fast if you want, at least. I find that you get too much loot, though, and most of it is junk. I'd prefer less but better loot.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

I have really mixed feelings. I just played the beta as a Wizard, and I am not entirely sure it is my game. The combat is not as climatic as I would like and the abilities seem a bit dull. I am not even sure I like the always use ability combat, it seems just very simplified. Not to mention the loot. I did not see any interesting drops or unique armor nor was there really any real customisation as I could equip anything I wanted on my mage. I.e. No armor classes or weapon classes apart from the odd offhand. And the health/mana system is just.. why?

I feel that Path of Exile offers a better hack and slash experience in more than one way, and it actually adds a bit of new ideas to the genre, as opposed to simplifying it. I might end up getting D3, as well as playing PoE of course, but it just.. does not feel right.

I played Wizard to level 3 and found it a bit dull. But the Barbarian (and to some extent, the Witch Doctor) I found to be a lot of fun. There's something very satisfying in just rampaging around smashing everything to bits. I also found the Barbarian to be the most powerful, at least in terms of the early game. That said, I've only played overall for a couple of hours, and only hit level 5 with a couple of characters. Also I suppose a lot is down to personal preference. I never played Diablo /2 so it's a new experience for me.

EDIT: I do find it a bit odd that the system is designed to allow mages to wield battle-axes though (and that this somehow contributes to the strength of a magic missile spell)

[Colonel J]

I have really mixed feelings. I just played the beta as a Wizard, and I am not entirely sure it is my game. The combat is not as climatic as I would like and the abilities seem a bit dull. I am not even sure I like the always use ability combat, it seems just very simplified. Not to mention the loot. I did not see any interesting drops or unique armor nor was there really any real customisation as I could equip anything I wanted on my mage. I.e. No armor classes or weapon classes apart from the odd offhand. And the health/mana system is just.. why?

I feel that Path of Exile offers a better hack and slash experience in more than one way, and it actually adds a bit of new ideas to the genre, as opposed to simplifying it. I might end up getting D3, as well as playing PoE of course, but it just.. does not feel right.


Just got done with a two hour open beta session, and it feels pretty nice. I like the new skill system, and that you can swap in and out your skills whenever you want. Its pleasant to be able to try out whatever you want without being locked into a skill chain.

Other than the skills, it is odd how little difference the feel is between D2 and D3 for me. I guess the similarity was part of what they were going for, so success there. But I don't know if I see a compelling reason to buy D3 for full price when I have played almost this exact game so many times now. Titan Quest, Hinterland, and Depths of Peril all still interest me.

This, and this, are just how I felt about after a few hours with it last night. Superficially it all looks and feels very slick but gameplay-wise I find it hard to justify why I would want this for £40-odd when I've got Titan Quest and Din's Curse both of which engage my interest far more than D3 has so far. I'll keep an open mind if it gets better later into the full game but so far...I'll pass.

[arathain]

While I haven't had that long with the beta I think it's confirming something I've suspected for a while- that the game will be a bit of a slow bloomer. It's only going to get really interesting when you've got a decent stable of skills, companions, and the items start to get more interesting.

All Diablo-likes have this to a large extent. The best at avoiding it to my mind are Torchlight, which is generous with its items, and Din's Curse, because the town-saving thing is its hook and that's there from the very start.

[Jockie]

I must be playing Titan Quest wrong, I played recently with a friend as a spirit/something mage (up until the egypt desert bit) and found that by far the best build was the one that meant all I had to do was left click my way through the whole game not using any other skills (I activated one buff at the start of each play session). At least D3's skill system means at later points you'll have 6 active skills, which is more than any Diablo-like has ever really required. Even Path of Exile (in which I donated to and am in the beta) generally needs only 3 or 4 if you choose your passives with any degree of focus.

Diablo 3 is far far slicker than either of the above. The always online stuff is pretty hateful though.

Also, the monk is probably the most fun class I've played in a Diablo-like.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

Diablo 3 is far far slicker than either of the above. The always online stuff is pretty hateful though.

Also, the monk is probably the most fun class I've played in a Diablo-like.

Right now the servers are busy again. It's a really poor show for them to put the emphasis on always online and then have the beta reveal alll the reasons why such a system sucks.

[Dubbill]

EDIT: I do find it a bit odd that the system is designed to allow mages to wield battle-axes though (and that this somehow contributes to the strength of a magic missile spell)
A percentage of weapon DPS contributes to the damage of mages and witchdoctors, and the weapon's attack speed affects their casting speed. In D2, weapon speed and DPS meant nothing to magic users so they only needed decent stats on the item. This meant they could use the same weapon for extended periods without needing to find an upgrade (or buy one from AH, if you are feeling cynical).

It definitely looks weird, as does a monk armed with a sword and shield but only ever using unarmed attacks.

[SirKicksalot]

I bet some people don't pay attention to skill and rune descriptions and think the monk lags all over the place when he actually teleports.

[squareking]

Put some time into the beta last night. It's polished and solid for the most part (the inventory is oddly floaty though, and those character models...woof). It feels like a group of people heard about Diablo and decided to make a game based on that concept. I was but a lad when D2 was the big thing, but I don't remember its dialog being this spectacularly bad. I'll give it some more time tonight.

Oddly, the biggest disappointment was at the first dungeon area where I was expecting a Den of Evil (or a similar larger area to explore/fight for my life as a low-level character) but got a single room with popup baddies instead. :(

[Jockie]

I'm not sure if I've been unlucky with drops but the demon hunter is just spectacularly awful next to the monk, does no damage and all of the abilities are completely unsatisfying. Barb Monk and witch doctor are the only classes that seem to be any fun to play.

[Jac]

First time I've ever actually played a hack and slash game and i'm enjoying it. Servers are a mess though - i dont mind the always online thing but if their servers aren't going to be up to it it would make me pretty angry if i bought it and couldnt actually play single player.

The dialogue and voice work is indeed atrocious.

[arathain]

I'm not too fussed about the full servers right now, it being a stress test and all, but if access is limited come release then there will be much grumpiness.

[Nox]

Thank Odin for this open beta. At least now I can safely say that Path of Exile is so much fucking better than this dull, simplified, Dragonball plus Warcraft piece of crap and be not bothered with it anymore ever.

So dissapointing.

[Bobtree]

Not having a great time with it TBH. Holding click to keep attacking. Server disconnects while playing (and now they're too busy). Awful fixed-angle shadows that disregard light sources. Fixed view that's zoomed in and centered on your character. I only just made it out of the first quest before the disconnect, but it was trivial windshielding thus far.

[Bhazor]

People being unable to play single player because of wonky online DRM? What a crazy idea.

[trjp]

Couple of things kinda worry me

1 - It's Diablo - if you've played it before, it involves a LOT of clicking, a LOT of repetitive combat and if that surprises you, you're a berk. They weren't going to change the formula...

2 - Diablo II is still poplular 12 years after launch BUT it's the multiplayer which has kept it going so it's the multiplayer which they've clearly focussed on here. That said tho, they've created a slightly less grindy single-player option - but unless you have NO FRIENDS, you should be playing co-op FOR THE LOOT.

I like Path of Exile but it's STAGGERINGLY repetitive and you'll use a small subset of your skills for 95% of your playtime - what I've seen here suggests there's a BIT more variety on offer in D3 but horses for courses.

I'm really wondering what people were expecting tho - Blizzard make highly polished versions of genre games - they don't invent wheels, they just make them REALLY circular...

[Freud]

Finished the beta with all classes and found Barbarian and Wizard the most satisfying to play. But since we only get access to a few of the skills and hardly any runes, I suspect that the classes I found boring (witch doctor and demon hunter) might take some time to come into their own.

Overall, the game looks to be fantastic. They have removed a lot of the annoying things from the predecessor (having to fill the inventory with gold/scrolls, having to click on gold to pick it up, distribution of ability points which led to an excessive focus on power gaming), the combat has a lot of weight to it and they have ensured replayability will be very high.

[xaphoo]

I'll second many people's observations by saying that this game is pretty unimpressive. I enjoyed the originals as a teenager, but in today's context this game - which appears to be much simpler than the old Diablos - falls a bit flat. The graphics are dull, the skills aren't especially fun to use, the atmosphere is nonexistent, loot is monotonous, there's a strange system whereby the weapon that you are holding in your hand controls your spell damage even if you are a spellcasting class, and in general character customization appears to have been completely forgotten about. Like latter-day WoW, there's just an overall air of sterility and cynicism permeating the game as a whole. Good to know that I will not feel that I am missing out by not buying it.

[Bobtree]

I finished the beta too, as Barbarian, and did a second run of the final boss with a group. The pacing certainly improves during and after the Cathedral, but it's still much too easy overall. I used ONE health potion the entire time, and even then only out of laziness. Multiplayer was fairly seamless.

Positional 3D surround sound in a top-down viewed game is very distracting. The vast majority of loot is junk that's only worth 2 gold and really not worth picking up, but it's faster to town portal and sell all the junk than it is to drop items, and if you drop things you're at risk of collecting them again. The lack of real strategic tradeoffs is very limiting, and there's almost no resource management.

It seems like a fine time waster, but I have plenty of those. I didn't find it interesting enough to want to buy. Any proper action game or mature roguelike is more satisfying to me.

[SirKicksalot]

it's still much too easy overall. I used ONE health potion the entire time, and even then only out of laziness.

And how many health orbs have you consumed?
Potions are for emergencies. Orbs achieve the same effect without you having to mash a button and they also influence your positioning.

[duff]

Not having a great time with it TBH. Holding click to keep attacking.

Lol, well yeah!

[Bilbo1981]

No one's mentioning torchlight, After playing that game which I had a lot of fun with this feel like such a let down. I'm pretty sure torchlight 2 is going to crap all over diablo 3 from a large height. Diablo 3 just seemed like a really generic boring game, there was nothing spectacular, interesting or cool about it. The horrible DRM and removal of PVP is pretty bad. On a serious note someone should make a NOX 2, kickstarter it or something, that was a really fun cool diablo type game.

[apricotsoup]

So I've managed to play barbarian, daemon hunter, monk and wizard before the lag became unbearable.

Of these the monk seemed the most fun, very highly mobile with teleporter attacks, rapid charges and nice AoE attacks.
Not so much customisation at these early levels but it's clear how well it will branch out. I personally vastly prefer this system to normal talent trees.

If blizz can manage to get the servers nice and stable for launch I can see a lot of fun to be had.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

I was really on the fence about it, but after this weekend I don't think I'm going to bother. IMO the always online adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay and just causes frustration. Out of the 10 or so separate attempts to play this weekend, I've only been able to successfully play twice.

[duff]

I was really on the fence about it, but after this weekend I don't think I'm going to bother. IMO the always online adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay and just causes frustration. Out of the 10 or so separate attempts to play this weekend, I've only been able to successfully play twice.

That's pretty terrible. Hopefully this is giving them the data they need to make sure the server infrastructure is improved for release.

[Malawi Frontier Guard]

I like this game very much and will probably buy it after thinking of giving it a pass before the weekend. Maybe a bit on the easy side, but that's fine. We've only seen the start of the first act.

People who think this is worse a game than Torchlight or Path of Exile are completely insane though. Path of Exile just mesmerizes people with its enormous bloated skill tree, but the game itself is very dull and the controls are poor, and Torchlight is just the filler game of the Diablo 2 to 3 transition, like Darkstone or something was from 1 to 2. While fairly polished and with quite a few ideas of its own, ultimately it's not the game I really want to play.

Diablo 3 absolutely nails the stuff that made the series interesting, it looks great and it's amazingly polished, and you can even turn off the hand-holding in the skill system.

Keep in mind though that I would never play it on my own and I've been corrupted by Guild Wars, so the the fact that it moved to a server-based architecture doesn't bother me. If you're not interested in multiplayer at all you probably do have a valid reason to complain about that. Then again, you can get Torchlight 2, right?

[Timofee]

I was really on the fence about it, but after this weekend I don't think I'm going to bother. IMO the always online adds absolutely nothing to the gameplay and just causes frustration. Out of the 10 or so separate attempts to play this weekend, I've only been able to successfully play twice.

I sympathize and likewise have had similar problems playing this weekend. I also firmly believe they should just offer a single player and co-op option that is unhooked from the auction house which would surely solve their (valid) concerns about people hacking in items and selling them.

What concerns me is that you would write the game off on the basis of your experience this weekend during a stress test. Its possible I'm giving them entirely too much credit but they deliberately and very clearly stated it was a stress test, as such I would expect they're running on the bare minimum hardware. Given they run countless WoW servers its not like they don't have hardware and bandwidth out the wazoo that they can throw at it. Obviously that is tempered by an accountability to shareholders and the need to do it as cost effectively as possible and so a valid concern is obviously where those two parts meet. But to make a judgement after a stress test just seems ill advised.

From my own perspective baring in mind I've never played the previous ones and bounced off Torchlight after about 5 hours, I think its pretty entertaining with friends. I could never imagine playing single player for any length of time and I can foresee it getting tiresome relatively quickly but I certainly think I'll be picking it up.

I played through with 4 classes:
- The barbarian was quite good fun, almost certainly the most powerful but also the most repetitive.
- I was surprised by how much I liked the monk; much more mobile than the barbarian and with potential for some interesting balance between getting stuck in and not getting squished
- The witchdoctor was much more relaxed although I found the earlier abilities seemed the best (although perhaps that's because they're the ones you got runes for)
- Wizard was fairly enjoyable but their AoE seemed week (at least feedback wise if not actual damage wise). Ray of frost on the other hand was very meaty and satisfying

Demon Hunter doesn't really appeal and sounds a strange mix

As regards other bits and pieces, the voice acting is awful and honestly it surprises me they've even bothered with a story. I also missed the whole outrage a while back about colours, was it that people thought it was too bright? If so they're in for a treat - the zones on offer in the beta are both dark and uninteresting.

[b0rsuk]

On a serious note someone should make a NOX 2, kickstarter it or something, that was a really fun cool diablo type game.

Yes, yes, yes ! What makes Nox combat so different ?
- separate mouse buttons for movement and attacking. This is a big deal because it increases skill level. You attack as soon as you think you are going to hit. When an enemy is running at you, you can stand still and initiate attack when he's about to reach you.
- no hit%. Hitting or not depends on your skill rather than character stats
- almost everything can be dodged. Your stats don't play the game for you - you have to avoid missiles yourself or you take damage.
- active shield blocking. Shield doesn't reduce damage by X, or negate X% attacks against you. You either activate it in time and fully block an attack, or you feel the full force of the blow.
- everyone starts on level ground in Multiplayer. And because combat itself is fun, Nox can get away with multiplayer
modes like Deathmatch, Capture The Flag etc.
- melee weapons have ranges and it matters, unlike in Diablo
- aiming is a skill in Nox. When was the last time you had issues hitting stuff in Diablo ? Now try a bow in Nox.

In this case "someone" would mean Petroglyph Games, a company founded by people from Westwood Studios (developer of Nox). They might be interesting in developing Nox 2.

Don't bash Path of Exile too much. The game is still under construction, and not even in open beta. Combat is fundamentally the same as Diablo (resists, deal more damage and take less damage than opponents, no dodging, no blocking) so you can't bash it without bashing Diablo.

[SirKicksalot]

Combat is fundamentally the same as Diablo (resists, deal more damage and take less damage than opponents, no dodging, no blocking) so you can't bash it without bashing Diablo.

Of course I can bash it, it feels like crap. If you only care about numbers I guess it's fine, but it fails spectacularly at feeling good. Even Titan Quest was more satisfying. Diablo 3 is meaty, has weight, impact - PoE is a floaty, boring mess.

The developers are going to sell combat animations lol. It's not pay2win, but IMO the feel of the combat is a critical component that no Diablo clone ever got right and it's sort of shitty that I have to buy it.

[Bobtree]

And how many health orbs have you consumed?
Potions are for emergencies. Orbs achieve the same effect without you having to mash a button and they also influence your positioning.

It doesn't matter how many if there's virtually no strategy involved. The orbs are always there because you're always killing things. There's no decision to make because windshielding monsters keeps you healed almost all the time. On top of that (and the big collection of potions you'll accrue), equipment can regenerate your health, the first follower you get can also heal you, and you also get unlimited use of town-portal fairly soon.

The most limiting factor in the game is that you have to wait while your character walks from place to place. Walking feels almost like a silly waste of time, because otherwise you hold the mouse button down and turn streams of monsters into meatgrinder paste and loot. All the walking does is slow down the pace of slot-machine lever pulling.

If enemies formed living walls to block your path instead of attacking, the effect would be almost the same.

Emergencies would make it more interesting to play, but they are pretty much completely absent on normal difficulty. For all the crunchy violence, it really is just too casual to maintain any tension.

I wasn't going to say this, but they're right, D3 does almost play itself. There might be a good game there, hidden in the higher levels or harder difficulties, or behind too many hours of boringly easy-street intro play, but the beta sure hasn't revealed it.

[b0rsuk]

When I say PoE and Diablo have fundamentally the same combat, I mean it's played the same way:

- approach enemies while getting hit. Nothing you can do about that.
- keep clicking on them until they die
- while in melee, use an ability or two periodically
- if things get bad, use a potion or abilityB
- if things get REALLY bad, retreat
...all the while you are relying on high stats of your armor and passive defensive abilities to reduce damage, and quality of your weapon to overpower enemies.

In Nox, a missile hits you because you didn't manage to dodge it. You miss because your aiming is off (and it's fairly common to miss even in melee range because combat is so dynamic), not because a roll says you missed. Hitscan attacks aren't too common (mostly lightning attacks) and it's entirely possible to dodge 90% of attacks as a warrior. You can almost always try harder. This is in contrast to Diablo and PoE, where dodging manually is not feasible.

Nox is an action game that looks superficially like Diablo. Core mechanics are wholly different, it starts with controls and ends with loot (no random loot ! !! !!!). It's a pity no one makes ARPG games like that. This is why no ARPG at the market satisfies me. They're all the same kind. Torchlight, PoE, D3, Grim Dawn have all the same combat fundamentals. They differ in how many skills you use and when, but it's still a game about a dude standing in the middle of a crowd taking hits while hitting other monsters.

[Giaddon]

This is why no ARPG at the market satisfies me. They're all the same kind. Torchlight, PoE, D3, Grim Dawn have all the same combat fundamentals. They differ in how many skills you use and when, but it's still a game about a dude standing in the middle of a crowd taking hits while hitting other monsters.

Take a look at Dungeon Siege 3.

[plivesey]

Having loved Diablo 2, I was looking forward to this beta weekend. And it rocked! I really enjoyed playing the game through as every class (which is something I didn't enjoy in Diablo 2). I'm still not sure whether to play Wizard or Witch Doctor, both are pretty fun.

I think people mentioning the difficulty should go and play Diablo 2 normal mode, for 50 minutes (about the time it takes to finish the beta). I doubt you'll die, and I doubt it'll be very challenging. Also, as this was intended as a stress test, I can understand the issues getting online. It's better they find these issues now than when the game is released.

[Tres]

I can understand the issues getting online

Issues:
#1: Cartoon graphics
#2: Music lacks any atmosphere
#3: No character customization
#4: No light radius
#5: Pathetic spell visual effects
#6: Lack of any challenge, semi-afk mobs to be slaughtered

I too hope they fix it before release.

[Malawi Frontier Guard]

@Tres

Maybe you should take a break from videogames in general. "Cartoon graphics", "pathetic spell effects". If that's what "pathetic" looks like I want you to list all of the ARPGs that look better than this so I can play them. Jesus Christ, seriously.

[Tres]

Path of Exile eats Diablo alive in terms of visual effects. And its free.

[frosty2oo2]

beta weeked seemed awsome to me, had a bash at all the classes & i cant say any felt weaker than the other (demon hunters seemed to lack aoe but make up for it in focused damage) by lvl 10 they all had a feel of being crazy powerful,

i like the way they made the junk loot literaly a waste of time to pick up as it meant i could just forget about it & minimise the inventory management bolocks (white n grey items are worth about 2gold & a mob can drop between 0-60g so if u obsess over it & grab & sell everything u'll find the extra u make is going to be negated by the downtime from selling)

money is pooled between all characters & they gave us an accountwide stash a la torchlight yay! the accountwide blacksmith is quite interesting too

multiplayer seemed solid with moments that reminded me of setting of a nuke in a "city of villians" bank vault cranked up to max difficulty with a full party (we all left that vault with a tan!).

i like that they are following the talent approach wow is taking in "Panda's In The Miiiist" so there are no longer many chioces that once made cannot easily be undone - one fight u can safely be sat at the back with blowpipe & zombie dawgs, a few sec downtime later & u can be shortrange aoe dot tastic with fireybatbreath & jars of burning spiders using a friendly barbarian as zombie bait. this should allow u to be a lot more dynamic given the enviroment & mob's ur up against

the best bit is that none of the classes seem totaly alien in concept to the others they all seem to have a bread n butter core thats not to obscure - the assasins from d2 left me wondering how the hell they were meant to fit in (tho granted it was possibly very well signposted & i may have just utterly missed the point at the time)

i did not like the way decard cain did not invite me to "stay a while & listen" but its a fair bet he will.

[ado]

Path of Exile eats Diablo alive in terms of visual effects. And its free.

It's also not very good.

[Malawi Frontier Guard]

It's hard to find proper screenshots of spell effects for either game, so I'm just taking the very first images from both games' website galleries:

http://i.imgur.com/ahvXu.jpg

While I do admit that Path of Exile's spell effects are good, it does in no way "eat Diablo alive" in this regard. That's just delusional fanboyism. There is a very marked difference in visual quality between those two games, both technically and artistically and Diablo is just miles ahead.

Learn to critique a game properly, look carefully at what is in front of your own eyes, and don't just create an account to drop a laundry list of bullshit and call it a day.

[arathain]

I've really enjoyed myself, when I've been able to get on. I've finished it with a Demon Hunter and dabbled with Wizard and Witch Doctor.

A list of things I like:

- Kind of impressed by the visual style. It's clear and easy to follow, and looks good and conveys a ton of atmosphere. Contrary to expectations it's rather bleak and oppressive. I got the Diablo vibe.
- I love how physical and reactive everything is. Walls crumble, stuff breaks, and zombies fly apart convincingly. I also love the little dynamic events in the mini-dungeons. Cute little quest vignettes.
- Mucking with skills is engaging, even with the limited options available with the level cap. The skills are powerful and interesting and combine in satisfying ways. As expected, I love being able to iterate until I find a combination I like. I bet at high levels there's tons of room for extra cleverness.
- The Demon Hunter plays like I hoped she would. Lots of mobility and control. The classes feel very distinct.
- Best level up effect in a game.

A list of things I am unsure about:

- While I am not at all bothered by the difficulty getting to play (stress test, and all), it throws the online nature into stark focus. I will likely almost never play with other people. The server connection necessity is 90% drawback.
- The character art for the female versions of the classes is very disappointing. My Wizard started in her underwear, and her first tunic was merely a different coloured bra. My Demon Hunter wears bondage gear and stiletto heels. Really? It's just embarrassing.
- I do like the skill system, but I have one reservation, which is the complete lack of any sort of choice whatsoever. I know that every player gets every skill, and think that's bold and cool. Would it have hurt to be able to choose the order on which I get things? It's ultimately the same in the end, but it imparts a much greater sense that your character is yours, and is a little bit distinct from everyone else.

[ado]

I do like the skill system, but I have one reservation, which is the complete lack of any sort of choice whatsoever. I know that every player gets every skill, and think that's bold and cool. Would it have hurt to be able to choose the order on which I get things? It's ultimately the same in the end, but it imparts a much greater sense that your character is yours, and is a little bit distinct from everyone else.

I think that they're doing something of a masterstroke here. They're making all the skills viable at lvl 60. If you like your starting skill you can play with it at lvl 60 and not be far from anyone else power wise (I think gear will be more the deciding factor here).

It enables you to actually play the class of your choice with the skill set and rune choice you enjoy using the most. This alone will provide for a vast variety of builds. What skill you get first and what last doesn't really matter because they're all viable.

But min maxers will figure out what provides most DPS anyway, which in a way defeats the purpose of this skill system altogether.

[Bhazor]

@ Malawi

Theres a thin line between stylistic simplicity and plain bad texturing. Diablo 3 straddles that line at times. Floor textures in paticular are often just colour gradients.

[arathain]

I think that they're doing something of a masterstroke here. They're making all the skills viable at lvl 60. If you like your starting skill you can play with it at lvl 60 and not be far from anyone else power wise (I think gear will be more the deciding factor here).

It enables you to actually play the class of your choice with the skill set and rune choice you enjoy using the most. This alone will provide for a vast variety of builds. What skill you get first and what last doesn't really matter because they're all viable.

But min maxers will figure out what provides most DPS anyway, which in a way defeats the purpose of this skill system altogether.

I agree that having scaling skills is great. I hope I never again have to go back to the D2 style of skill trees where you have to keep putting points in a single skill level after boring level just to be able to keep using it. I also love a design that moves away from being stingy and just gives you a lot of toys to play with. Why the heck not? Experimenting is a whole lot more fun when it doesn't take 20 hours in a separate character to perform one experiment.

[SirKicksalot]

@ Malawi

Theres a thin line between stylistic simplicity and plain bad texturing. Diablo 3 straddles that line at times. Floor textures in paticular are often just colour gradients.

Pastel! Never a bad thing.
I'll take it over PoE's overblown specular maps and noisy textures any day.

This GDC presentation (http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1015306/The-Art-of-Diablo)(video + slides) explains all the art choices. You'll see comparisons with early prototypes where the environments and creatures were realistic.

[Stormbane]

After reading a lot of the complaints on this forum from beta participants I was a bit worried. I tried the open beta this weekend and I played through chapter 1 about 15 times. The game is great IMO, an improvement in every way from Diablo II. The online only is not as bad as I was expecting either. Playing from New Zealand on 200ms latency and everything was still smooth and the lag imperceptible.

Also the whole art debate. I think Blizzard has the best video game art style out there. They really know how to make things look good with a minimal performance hit. It's easy to make each model with 10k polygons and 10Mb textures but Blizzard pulls of 10 polygon models even today.
If the artists at Blizzard made wall art on canvass I would be the first in line.

[Bleekill]

The skill/rune system really bugs me. Seems like training wheels. Won't be getting at launch probably but enough of my friends are into it that I will probably pick it up around the holidays or something.

[Gozuu]

Every expectation met. Instant purchase from here, such a polished game!
They could have shown me a screenshot of the Demon Hunter dual-wielding Crossbows and that would have caught me red handed giving in to this beauty. Damn it is awesome!

[Snakejuice]

Played thought the act with the Witch Doctor (no time/energy for the other classes, worked all weekend) and yes it has that wonderful Blizzard polish but one thing bothers me, I could equip a sword but as soon as I got my first skill I could no longer figure out how to use it! Is this how it's supposed to be or did I miss something? Even if the sword would do less damage than any of my skills I would still be able to use it because it's a real immersion breaker if I can equip something but not use it.

[Maurish]

Is this how it's supposed to be or did I miss something?
They've stated that using the normal attack seems to have very limited use in the game since you're better off using skills that do basically the same but also deal more damage and generate resource (Bash or Cleave for example).
That said, if I recall correctly, it can still be done with the "elective mode" enabled in the options. Just drag and drop the skill on the mouse button anywhere on the screen to get rid of it and normal attack should replace the empty spot. I hope this still works.

I really dislike the way they've tried to make it "user friendly" and basically point you what skills to use in certain slots. I really would've preferred Diablo II style or just give us more freedom. While it's possible to get it the way you'd want it to be, it feels very clumsy in my opinion.

[alset85]

Played thought the act with the Witch Doctor (no time/energy for the other classes, worked all weekend) and yes it has that wonderful Blizzard polish but one thing bothers me, I could equip a sword but as soon as I got my first skill I could no longer figure out how to use it! Is this how it's supposed to be or did I miss something? Even if the sword would do less damage than any of my skills I would still be able to use it because it's a real immersion breaker if I can equip something but not use it.

That's how it's supposed to be. The only time you use your weapon is when you don't have the mana/other resource to use a skill. And skill damage is tied to weapon damage.

[b0rsuk]

My main complaint about Diablo 3 skill system is that it punishes Hardcore players severely. Many skill runes have high level requirements - 30, 40, 50. Unless you can survive this long, they are useless to you. And once you reach a level this high, chances are you won't need the skill because your build has just proved itself effective without it.

[alset85]

My main complaint about Diablo 3 skill system is that it punishes Hardcore players severely. Many skill runes have high level requirements - 30, 40, 50. Unless you can survive this long, they are useless to you. And once you reach a level this high, chances are you won't need the skill because your build has just proved itself effective without it.

Yeah I wish we could choose the order in which we get skills or at least the runes for them.

[Hypernetic]

That's how it's supposed to be. The only time you use your weapon is when you don't have the mana/other resource to use a skill. And skill damage is tied to weapon damage.

You can use your weapon by dragging a skill off the button. It will then revert back to basic attack.


Yeah I wish we could choose the order in which we get skills or at least the runes for them.

What sense would that make? It's an RPG with power progression, if you could chose anything you wanted at any level it would be completely imbalanced. Getting abilities meant to be had at high levels for fighting difficult mobs/bosses early in the game would simply be broken. It would also take ALL of the fun out of the game. If you had all of the most powerful abilities in the game by level 10 you would get bored and stop playing by level 15 or 20. Becoming more powerful through leveling up and gaining new skills is just as much of a carrot on a stick as loot.

It's not different from a more standard skill tree system in that regard, the only difference is you aren't making an initial skill tree choice to be a "pet witch doctor" a "CC witch doctor" or a "AoE witch doctor", for example. Instead you have the ability to change what "type" of witch doctor you are on the fly. Once you made that initial skill tree choice in previous games (or other RPGs) you were still locked into a power progression system that was limited by your level, you couldn't hit level 10 and put a skill point in the most powerful talent at the bottom of the tree, you had to put points in each tier and fill it out as you leveled.

[Shar_ds]

What sense would that make? It's an RPG with power progression, if you could chose anything you wanted at any level it would be completely imbalanced.

This is the point though, Diablo 3 is quite obviously a different beast from Diablo 2. D2 was a predominately single-player Role Playing Game where you created a character and moulded it in the image that you wanted (with, admittedly, irritations if you put too many skill points in the early skills). D3 is a MMO in all but lineage. The character is your avatar in the world but the only difference from everyone else's character is the name you've chosen and the gear that you're carrying... gear that you can notable buy and sell in the auction house and which can be balanced much easier when every character has the same stats.

[Gozuu]

Yeah I wish we could choose the order in which we get skills or at least the runes for them.

We do move further away from the Diablo II layout then. As skills in talent trees were listed as, trees of progression and not a magazine filled with selectables :)

I actually do not mind the way they handle it, it kind of forces me to try out each Spell & each Rune to make unique composition instead of min/max'ing as usual. It's fun :D

[Hypernetic]

This is the point though, Diablo 3 is quite obviously a different beast from Diablo 2. D2 was a predominately single-player Role Playing Game where you created a character and moulded it in the image that you wanted (with, admittedly, irritations if you put too many skill points in the early skills). D3 is a MMO in all but lineage. The character is your avatar in the world but the only difference from everyone else's character is the name you've chosen and the gear that you're carrying... gear that you can notable buy and sell in the auction house and which can be balanced much easier when every character has the same stats.

None of that is true at all though.

First of all it's not an MMO. Not in any sense of the term.

Second, everyone isn't a clone. In fact, in terms of "end game" content in D3 (Inferno mode, etc) there will be MUCH more variety than D2. In D2 there was pretty much only one or two right ways to build everything. Once you built a certain way you were stuck with it. In D3 you can change everything on the fly. This matters for two big reasons.

1) You can change your skills based on group comp. Certain skills will work well with the skills of other classes, for example. If your group is light in CC and your class is capable of good CC you might want to switch things around to be more CC heavy. There is an almost limitless number of examples.

2) Situation: Despite what you might think, being able to change your skills and runes whenever you want adds more depth and strategy to Diablo than previous games in the genre. Being able to maximize your skills for clearing trash and then switch to a more single target oriented build for an upcoming boss, for example. Or swapping to more defensive oriented skill set if survivability is an issue. Again there are nearly limitless examples of how deep this can go.

[alset85]

You can use your weapon by dragging a skill off the button. It will then revert back to basic attack. What sense would that make? It's an RPG with power progression, if you could chose anything you wanted at any level it would be completely imbalanced. Getting abilities meant to be had at high levels for fighting difficult mobs/bosses early in the game would simply be broken. It would also take ALL of the fun out of the game. If you had all of the most powerful abilities in the game by level 10 you would get bored and stop playing by level 15 or 20. Becoming more powerful through leveling up and gaining new skills is just as much of a carrot on a stick as loot. It's not different from a more standard skill tree system in that regard, the only difference is you aren't making an initial skill tree choice to be a "pet witch doctor" a "CC witch doctor" or a "AoE witch doctor", for example. Instead you have the ability to change what "type" of witch doctor you are on the fly. Once you made that initial skill tree choice in previous games (or other RPGs) you were still locked into a power progression system that was limited by your level, you couldn't hit level 10 and put a skill point in the most powerful talent at the bottom of the tree, you had to put points in each tier and fill it out as you leveled.But that's the thing though. From my understanding there is no skill power progression. Even at max level it's viable to use the first skills you get because everything scales with your equipment. You don't need to put points in them just so you can keep up in damage. Higher level skills aren't "better" but different. There can still be progression of a non-linear nature if I can choose the order of skills/runes so that it's fun for me and still keep the balance. Edit: Guild Wars 2 does it so so right in this respect if you want to see what I mean. Edit 2: another example is Gotham City Impostors. Every once in a while at certain levels you get a weapon unlock point, or weapon mod point or perk point etc so I can choose what my playstyle would be and there still is plenty of progression going on but with much more freedom.

[sonson]

I don’t get the praise for it. If one were given this withoutknowing it were Diablo III I’m pretty sure most people would be universallynon-plussed.

The combat is fine, but in a game where more or less all youdo is kill stuff “fine” really doesn’t cut it for me. Fights aren’t remotely dynamic,either visually or mechanically, and given the advances in successfully workingphysical considerations into fights (Stuns, Knock backs, people falling over,taking cover, that sort of thing) they feel really very empty to me. It remindsme of golden Axe- hit people, sort of jockey back and forth doing so, and thenmove on, or die. The powers I unlocked, while they looked fun, didn’t reallyadd anything apart from the ability to do that quicker, or hold other guys inplace. There is a tactical element sure, but it’s a pretty shallow one comparedto most experiences now available. The loot was rubbish

In The Guardian of Light you can run through exciting, welldesigned “dungeons”, each level offering different challenges, loot, themes,puzzles, and a mass of enemies who you fight in way which is satisfying interms of how it feels and how it looks. It offers everything Diablo does apartfrom a grimdark medieval setting, and delivers it in a far more polished manner.. It’s especially grating that they would spend so much effort on implementingthe always online aspect while ignoring significant advances in the genre. Itjust feel redundant to me.

That said: Things don’t always have to be pushing thingsforward, and as the last few years have shown a well done revamp of older genreor whatever can still be a great experience. But they tend to be at a price which reflects the fact.

If the Beta is anything to go by you’re paying £44.99for that experience, which is an awful lot for a game which feels old, stagnant and lacks the charm and even polish thatyou normally expect of a modern homage to an older genre. A game that you *might*no even be able to access for arbitrary reasons.

Given that there are a multitudeof other, similar takes on the genre available for pennies, and that a new oneof those is soon to be released at *less than half the price* of Diablo3, I have no idea what it is you’re money gets you. Bearing in mind that this *will not* reduce in price for several years at least as well.

If you buy it and enjoy it,great, all power to you.
But I really feel that you're paying around half the price for IP, and it's nostalgic potency, alone.

[Shar_ds]

None of that is true at all though.

First of all it's not an MMO. Not in any sense of the term.

Second, everyone isn't a clone. In fact, in terms of "end game" content in D3 (Inferno mode, etc) there will be MUCH more variety than D2. In D2 there was pretty much only one or two right ways to build everything. Once you built a certain way you were stuck with it. In D3 you can change everything on the fly. This matters for two big reasons.

1) You can change your skills based on group comp. Certain skills will work well with the skills of other classes, for example. If your group is light in CC and your class is capable of good CC you might want to switch things around to be more CC heavy. There is an almost limitless number of examples.

2) Situation: Despite what you might think, being able to change your skills and runes whenever you want adds more depth and strategy to Diablo than previous games in the genre. Being able to maximize your skills for clearing trash and then switch to a more single target oriented build for an upcoming boss, for example. Or swapping to more defensive oriented skill set if survivability is an issue. Again there are nearly limitless examples of how deep this can go.

It's not a MMO, but almost all of the design aims seem to tally with those from a MMO. It's certainly not catering for those of us who loved D2 for the single-player adventuring?

There may be more variety about how to approach a situation, but because every single player of that class has all of those skills at equivalent levels, it actually becomes even less about variety as you can swap your character build around to match the archetype/trope de jour. I agree that it's nice that you can re-arrange your tactical line-up depending on how you're going out (I really enjoyed Guild Wars' tactical flexibility), but the forced commitment of D2 meant that you had to put in the thought into generating your character and build towards and building strategies for your proficiencies and weaknesses rather than just swapping in the best gear for the job.

[Tres]

It's hard to find proper screenshots of spell effects for either game, so I'm just taking the very first images from both games' website galleries

I shall help you then with a video, note the lighting effects in the cave, water reflections and so forth. Diablo offers nothing of this sort as far as I can tell, therefore is inferior in terms of graphics design. Kindly I won't even mention the certain textures in this new "Diablo" game, or the models.

Path of Exile (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8L41wn5IIA&feature=showob) : Let's Play w/Cromar and Rurikhan, part 5: Merveil Is Hard (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8L41wn5IIA&feature=showob)

Do also note the light radius, iconic element of Diablo series which isn't even in new "Diablo", same goes for the minimap.

Unfortunately, Path of Exile is not released under the brand (not the development, obviously) of Blizzard because if it was, actual Diablo fans would be satisfied. Sadly, GGG dont have enough cash to challenge "Diablo" 3's marketing campaign.

World of Warcraft is collapsing, hence Blizz had to find a way to keep the playerbase. So they sold the spirit of the old Diablo and made it in a way so it can attract Warcraft/LoL/DOTA crowd, that's why it has the graphics, simplicity and instead of skill system we have pretty much unlocks system like in Battlefield games.

It saddens me greatly for I have waited in anticipation.

This can be, shall we say, a symbol for the current era of computer gaming, the fall of series that were once great and got commercialized to match the lowest common denominator (and are sold mostly only due to marketing and hype, not actual game value) and, on the other hand, the rise of indie games, made by small group of people who still know whats this all about and dont sell out the principal elements of their games just to attract largest crowd.

[Snakejuice]

Tres: While I agree the gfx is more advanced in PoE and it's a really awesome game I do feel you are been a bit harsh towards D3. Yes it's different, yes it's a hack'n'slash with a cod-style unlock system, but I don't see that as a bad thing as nothing of the sort have been done before so it's something new to try. Also D3 has much much better physics than PoE (don't think it even has physics) and I never could stay away from that cozy Blizzard polish.

Why does it always have to be this vs that all time? I'm going to play the shit out of both D3 and PoE, just as I am playing both BF3, TF2, QL and Tribes. Or Rift and EVE. Oh and almost forgot about Torchlight 2, gonna play that one also!

[groovychainsaw]

I finally managed to play the beta last night, after being foiled previously by server issues. I'm assuming that's what the 'stress test' is for and they'll resolve it for the launch - there were 215,000 players online concurrently last night and it worked pretty smoothly.

It is a change from previous Diablo games. But I think I prefer it. They've worked hard on making each skill useful and interesting, and satisfying to use, and it shows. From the first moment, when my barbarian lady smashed the first zombie she found in two halves, clear off the screen, I was impressed by the feedback and design of that system. SO SATISFYING to click things. Which is what these games are all about, really.

As someone who loves stats etc. I was intially a bit disappointed by the streamlining of the levelling system, and it feels like there should be 'something' in place when you level up. Whilst you unlock a new skill/rune, its does feel more like a multiplayer shooter system of unlocks, you have very few decisions to make in your progression, apart from which skill you prefer to use, only your gear presents you with any real 'build' decisions.

In theory though, all the skills (should!) remain useful throughout the game, and even I found myself switching builds from crowd control to high DPS to deal with different enemies (more important when running solo). I even removed my runes to go back the 'vanilla' version of the barbarian's bash to re-introduce knockback when needed. I don't think I've ever gone 'down' a level in a hackandslash game before. Most hackandslash games give you a single build for the entire game, very rarely having to change your focus and just feeding points into the same handful of skills. This system lets you find an approach you like, without locking off any other parts for experimenting with. In theory it reduces replayability as you won't run the same character class more than once, but I'm hoping the harder difficulty for the endgame mitigates that loss. We obviously don't really know anything about difficulty yet, beyond 'act 1 is pretty easy'.

Co-op is very well done too, and I encountered no issues there at all, had fun playing ranged support (via the Wizard) to a bashy Monk. The whole game UI etc. is very slick and polished and it progresses you to the next clicking arena very nicely. I don't regret my pre-order at all, and as long as I can get into the game and actually play it at launch, I think I'll be pretty satisfied.

[Freud]

I didn't enjoy PoE. It felt very wooden and the skill tree is a bloated mess where it is obvious the designers have lost control and don't have the ability to kill their darlings.

But it's good that people have alternatives, so if you can't enjoy D3 I hope you can enjoy PoE.

[Battle Programmer Spike]

Don't forget that you will be only using 6 "skills" at any given time. with 2 of em being mouse button actions, and one of those a glorified auto-attack...

[Gozuu]

Snip

Sooooooo R-F, why did you make a second account to hate on Diablo III?

[Mbaya]

Well, I ran through the Beta with each class and overall, rather enjoyed it.

I imagine the server issues have put a lot of people off (regardless of it being a Stress Test, we all know for many this was simply a demo), it was certainly irritating to be unable to launch a single player game because the 'Game doesn't exist'.

I do prefer the combat feedback from melee characters...playing ranged just seemed to lack 'oomph' for me, a shame as I had originally planned to be a Witch Doctor. I'll be going Barbarian in retail and very much looking forward to the release. The removal of customising stats didn't really impact me as much as I thought and I really enjoy being able to swap out skills on a whim.

[Malawi Frontier Guard]

I shall help you then with a video, note the lighting effects in the cave, water reflections and so forth. Diablo offers nothing of this sort as far as I can tell, therefore is inferior in terms of graphics design. Kindly I won't even mention the certain textures in this new "Diablo" game, or the models.

Grasping at straws. Nothing else to say.

[duff]

This can be, shall we say, a symbol for the current era of computer gaming, the fall of series that were once great and got commercialized to match the lowest common denominator.

Are you mad? The Diablo games have always been about clicking on monsters. It was never exactly civ 4 was it.

[Hypernetic]

and one of those a glorified auto-attack...

I love when people parrot things they read elsewhere without confirming it for themselves first.

First and foremost, you can assign any active skill to any skill slot. (This means you don't even have to use the "glorified auto-attack")

Second, different classes have different resource free attacks. For some classes they are resource builders (monk/barb/demon hunter) and others they are just resource free attacks. Some of these resource free attacks could be considered "glorified auto attacks" I suppose, but most of them are much more than that (Like a chaining snare from the demon hunter or cleave for the Barb). Each class has 4+ of these resource free attacks, each with it's own set of runes. If you really think 4 different resource free attacks with 6 or so rune choices for each amounts to a "glorified auto-attack" then whatever.


And how is having "only" 6 ACTIVE skills at once a bad thing?

[Reinhardt]

I played each class to the skeleton king and enjoyed myself about as much as I expected to. All the sensory feedback is very polished and I infinitely prefer the new skill system to the old.

I played with a WASD mod which you can download here (http://code.google.com/p/diablo-iii-wasd/downloads/list), and I would never go back to point and click. It's so much more convenient to move and shoot simultaneously with this system.

I also played with the pixel shader available at darkD3.com (http://darkd3.com/). I chose the "Stronger" setting and turned Sharpness on. I know there's a bit of disagreement on this topic but I think the game looks far better after installing the shader.

And I agree that limiting the number of active skills to 6 is a genius decision.

[duff]

How does the pixel shader work? I'm guessing it doesn't cost much performance. Kind of like the Skyrim FXAA projector.

[arathain]

The only thing I saw that resembled a 'glorified auto-attack' was the Wizard's arcane missile, or whatever it was. Even that was comparable to your starting Firebolt skill from every ARPG ever. That's before rune modification. The Witch Doctor gets a glorified auto attack that lobs jars filled with spiders- now that's some glory on that attack.

Any good build from D2 or Torchlight or similar has one or two attacks that are spammed, with one or two support skills and maybe some passives, largely because of the opportunity cost of building any other way. D3 does two clever things:

- It enables the spammed attack, cutting the time to where you would get it anyway a few hours in, not to mention that skills are more interesting than auto-attacks anyway.
- It removes the opportunity cost to having more than two or three skills, so you can make your build more diverse and interesting to play.

[Reinhardt]

How does the pixel shader work? I'm guessing it doesn't cost much performance. Kind of like the Skyrim FXAA projector.

I'm not sure and there doesn't appear to be a FAQ but I can tell you I haven't experienced any framerate drop, and I have a decidedly mid-range PC.

[Hanban]

I enjoyed the beta well enough after having played the barbarian and witch doctor up till Leoric.

My one concern is the oversaturation of health orbs. I don't think I at any point had to worry about health, which has me a little worried. As long as the difficulty goes up the further along the game progresses then I'm sure I'll enjoy it, however.

Actually there was one thing that bothered me immensely. Something I absolutely loved in DII was the character select screen where all the heroes stand by the campfire. There was something very moody and wonderful about that.

The WoW-inspired character select that we have now is awfully dull in a game so polished otherwise! I guess given the gender choices the screen would be filled with heroes, but I am at any rate outraged at this change. Outraged I tell you!

[duff]

Something I absolutely loved in DII was the character select screen where all the heroes stand by the campfire. There was something very moody and wonderful about that.



I loved the curse a character would give if you selected him/her then clicked on someone else.

[Tres]

Why does it always have to be this vs that all time? I'm going to play the shit out of both D3 and PoE, just as I am playing both BF3, TF2, QL and Tribes. Or Rift and EVE. Oh and almost forgot about Torchlight 2, gonna play that one also!

Well, I certainly didnt say that one shouldnt try it. The problem is that once you pay Blizzard for their new game you dont get your money back even if you dont like it. And they can call it a sale success, tricking people into buying. At least there was this open beta so people like me, who were sceptical from the time they saw first footages, can play it and confirm their suspicions that this game has nothing but lore and genre to do with previous Diablo games.

PS.

Sooooooo R-F, why did you make a second account to hate on Diablo III?

Expressing your opinions, Gozuu, isn't hating. One day you will learn that, thats also the day when you change your nick to something that doesn't shout "I'm Blizzard fanboy, if you dont agree with me you're dumb, boo".

[Drayk]

I didn't play the beta but i made the leap of fate and precommanded the game today. I know i'll have friends, who aren't huge gamers, to play this game with me and that's enough to make me buy it.

I want to play a wizard first but my "act first, think later" nature will probably have the best of me and i'll end up playing barbarian or monk...

[Subatomic]

I must say, I was positively surprised by the open beta weekend (well, except the severe connection issues on the first day). I was very sceptical of the skill system, removal of attribute point distribution and the real money auction house, but at least the first two I have no longer an issue with after playing 3 of the 5 classes through the short beta content.
Even with the very limited skills/runes available it was already apparent that the system has much potential for depth without needless complexity, and the limit of six (four in the beta) active skills didn't feel limiting at all. Besides, I struggle to remember a viable Diablo 2 build that even had four regularly used active skills, let alone six. I also like that playing a caster class isn't as frustrating at low levels as it was in D2, where your sorceress was out of mana after about four to five pitifully weak firebolts because you could neither invest skill points into it (gotta save them for the real spells available later!) nor invest too much attribute points into energy for more mana (all other attributes were more important early on).
I understand people not terribly fond of the auto-assigned attributes on level up in Diablo 3, but frankly, if you knew what you were doing attribute points were more or less a no-brainer in Diablo 2 and not a very involved or interesting choice: Strength & Dexterity - enough too wear the desired equipment, possibly more depending on build/character class, Vitality - as much a possible, Energy - generally zero. Admittedly, without something to click on or assign except from the occasional rune or new spell, level ups feel strangely unexciting and somewhat passive.

What really impressed me was the atmosphere and overall feel of polish and attention to detail, especially for returning D1/D2 players, like the lore scrolls from Lachdanan and King Leoric and the mentioning of rather obscure minor boss monsters like Gorash. You can even find the Den of the Fallen from D2 near Tristram, complete with decayed Fallen Shamans. They may not have much if any of the original D1/D2 teams left, but they sure pay hommage to them. I also couldn't help but smirk when I heard they kept the good old "gold drop"-sound effect. The voice acting is a bit inconsistent (as in, all over the place), but I guess that's something one has to live with in a Blizzard game, and is perhaps even part of the charm.

About the always online "DRM"... I certainly understand where people are coming from who despise it and won't buy the game because of it, and the first day of the open beta really highlighted the issues it has in that respect. If I wanted a purely single player hack and slash, I probably wouldn't bother with it either, but at least for me, Diablo has always been about the multiplayer mode (IMO it's much too dull playing an item hunt game like this alone for and extended period of time). Playing single player was nice and all for a first playthrough perhaps, but the "real" game started on Battle.net. So, the lack of a single player mode doesn't bother me that much personally, though I of course would have liked its inclusion as an option for those who want it, it just isn't a deal breaker for me.

[flagoon]

Well, I certainly didnt say that one shouldnt try it. The problem is that once you pay Blizzard for their new game you dont get your money back even if you dont like it.

What? That's unacceptable. And I thought always online DRM was a kick in the balls. Is it confirmed? Are they really won't give me my money back if I don't like their game? I hope that trend won't last...

But on more serious note. You are trying to troll so hard, that it's not even funny. You can say you are "expressing your opinions", but seriously, who is going to believe that?

Compering graphic style of PoE and D3 is plain stupid. It's subjective and some people will like D3 more and some PoE. Personally graphic style is what keeps me away from PoE. It looks horrible.

I played lot's of D2 and played some D3 and of course it's not the same game with updated graphics. They have made some changes, simplify progression of the characters etc., but the gameplay is great. I feel powerful since the first levels. In D2 you had to wait until reaching higher levels as only then you had good skills. And sending lot's of creeps flying is what is fun in this game.

I only need one thing. Hotkey to change skills fast. Like I had 2-3 layouts of skills I can change on the fly. I don't mind CD, but just let me press one key to change 6 skills.

I was skeptical as you were, but open beta convinced me to buy the game day one. Sure they can improve the game in many aspects, but still, for me, it's the best H&S until Grim Dawn.



At least there was this open beta so people like me, who were sceptical from the time they saw first footages, can play it and confirm their suspicions that this game has nothing but lore and genre to do with previous Diablo games.

I'm guessing you are big CoD fan.

[Tres]

*snip*
I'm guessing you are big CoD fan.

And I'm guessing that you have no arguments whatsoever (or you're just unable to discuss properly) considering your post has no substance, just a lot of jabbering and a punchline.

[Hypernetic]

And I'm guessing that you have no arguments whatsoever (or you're just unable to discuss properly) considering your post has no substance, just a lot of jabbering and a punchline.

What is your argument? "I don't like Diablo 3 because I'm a shill for Path of Exile."?

You've made a promotional sounding post about PoE and a post about how Blizzard are dirty tricksters for not giving refunds on games.

Everything else you've said has been personal attacks on other posters.

[flagoon]

And I'm guessing that you have no arguments whatsoever (or you're just unable to discuss properly) considering your post has no substance, just a lot of jabbering and a punchline.

English is not my native language and sometimes I'm lack of words, not arguments. Besides, me liking D3 is my personal choice. I see that PoE looks horrible, both graphic wise and gameplay wise. Its youtube videos does nothing to convince me to play it. Some of my friends tried it but get bored in few days. I don't see PoE as a competition for D3 (or Torchlight 1 or 2). Not now, not ever.

Now this are your arguments about D3:


Issues:
#1: Cartoon graphics
#2: Music lacks any atmosphere
#3: No character customization
#4: No light radius
#5: Pathetic spell visual effects
#6: Lack of any challenge, semi-afk mobs to be slaughtered

I too hope they fix it before release.

#1: lol
#2: lol
#3: did you play this game? D3 has bigger customization than D2+D2:LoD. Of course you know this, but troll never admits to talking crap. In D2 you had a character with 2-3 maxed spells you were using. Now you can have character with huge range of skills that, even if you get them at level 3, can be effective in level 60.
#4: lol
#5: lol
#6: you know you are playing (if you ever played D3Beta) first few levels of the game? I don't recall any game that would make a challenge at the beginning of the game. It's almost a tutorial.

D3 has it's flaws. I'm not saying it doesn't. Always online DRM, lack of ability to change skills setup on the flight, lack of stats distribution (I really don't care, but I understand why it can be a problem for some people). But on the other hand they pushed some things forward, and came up with some innovative ideas, that are, in my opinion, good solution for making a dynamic and fun game. Of course if beta is all there is in D3, then I will be crying for lacking self crafted items, gems, item slots, rune words and other things that made D2 such a fun game. But it's a beta and Blizzard had never disappointed me.

[Gozuu]

Expressing your opinions, Gozuu, isn't hating. One day you will learn that, thats also the day when you change your nick to something that doesn't shout "I'm Blizzard fanboy, if you dont agree with me you're dumb, boo".

No no no, I have nothing against your opinion. I have something against you being fully aware of what Diablo is, comes with hate on the third release in the franchise. If you had done this when Diablo was launched, that would have been fair. However, criticizing things which has been the same since the first title, just makes your arguments invalid.

Complaining about the graphics, music, spell effects and challenge is just somewhat, pathetic considering that Diablo's graphic style has always been cartoony, the music is literally in the same boat as Diablo II, which suits it perfectly. The spell effects compared to Diablo II and Torchlight I & II is severely unmatched and the "challenge" in a beta which only features normal setting, is a lack? Why don't you realize that the game features much more challenging game modes than what you've played this weekend and get over your obvious hate without reasoning?

Yes, I am a gigantic Blizzard fanboy, with good reason. None of their products so far has been disappointing. They release the most polished games and Activision Blizzard has secured the most talented and friendly customer support team ever to set foot in the gaming industry.

[Bleek]

What really impressed me was the atmosphere and overall feel of polish and attention to detail

Hi, my first post.

Agree with the above, I've never played D1 or D2 but I really like the art style of D3 and I think the menus, icons and general presentation is excellent!

This has just leaped on to my very thin buy list.

[Drayk]

#6: you know you are playing (if you ever played D3Beta) first few levels of the game? I don't recall any game that would make a challenge at the beginning of the game. It's almost a tutorial.

You didn't play Witcher 2 vanilla then. It was pretty brutal and so is Dark soul.
Games like ninja gaiden, Contra or even the first devil may cry aren't really easy even in the first stage.

As for Diablo 3 Nightmare and hell mode still exist no ?

[flagoon]

You didn't play Witcher 2 vanilla then. It was pretty brutal and so is Dark soul.
Games like ninja gaiden, Contra or even the first devil may cry aren't really easy even in the first stage.

To be honest, I didn't. But still, it's an exception and I think few players would like to die in first few minutes of the game.
Besides here's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voRva2Dczas) the link to someone who actually almost died in D3 Beta :) So it's not that easy.

[Drayk]

Thanks, but I am not worried about the difficulty, I played a bit of hardcore in D2 (just till the expansion and got borred, something like level 35). It was not overly difficult but it was still challenging at times. If Diablo 3 as the same diffuclty curve it's good for me.

[Subatomic]

As for Diablo 3 Nightmare and hell mode still exist no ?
[/COLOR][/LEFT]

They even added an additional difficulty mode called "Inferno".

I also must admit I managed to get my wizardress (is that what you'd call a female wizard?) killed early on by running into a group + boss of those annoying jumping scavengers with the "Nightmarish" attribute (chance to cause fear on hit) who promptly caused her to run into a group of champion scavengers with knockback. Fun times.

[R-F]

#3: did you play this game? D3 has bigger customization than D2+D2:LoD. Of course you know this, but troll never admits to talking crap. In D2 you had a character with 2-3 maxed spells you were using. Now you can have character with huge range of skills that, even if you get them at level 3, can be effective in level 60.

I don't think you know what customisation is.

[Moraven]

Meaningful customization is hard to design and balance. Hence cookie cutter builds. Like in WoW they are trying to get away from that system where everyone ends up having 1-2 same builds anyway. Yes it sucks for people who like to try different things and do something very niche, but when the majority of people have the same talents, why bother.

Does not hurt to try something different.

[frosty2oo2]

i like the new talent/rune "toggles" as it makes the player more dynamic, the RNG of the elites means you wont perfectly know the opposition, but you can know the enviroment with multiple playthru's & tailor your build to suit, hopefully it will lead to a more rounded understanding of the toy box at your disposal instead of focused knowledge of your build.

This ship looks sturdy - lets see how fast she can go!

[SirKicksalot]

Pasted from somewhere else:

Diablo 2 Barbarian skill progression

Level 1:
Bash
Howl
Find Potion

Level 6:
Leap
Double Swing
Taunt
Shout

Level 12:
Stun
Double Throw
Find Item

Level 18:
Leap Attack
Concentrate
Battle Cry

Level 24:
Frenzy
Battle Orders
Grim Ward

Level 30:
Whirlwind
Berserk
War Cry
Battle Command

=========================

Diablo 3 Barbarian skill progression

1 Bash
2 Hammer of the Ancients
3 Cleave
4 Ground Stomp
5 Rend
6 Bash Clobber Rune
7 Hammer of the Ancients Rolling Thunder Rune
8 Leap
9 Ancient Spear
9 Cleave Rupture Rune
-
11 Frenzy
11 Rend Ravage Rune
12 Seismic Slam
12 Ground Stomp Deafening Crash Rune
13 Revenge
13 Bash Onslaught Rune
14 Weapon Throw
14 Leap Iron Impact Rune
15 Hammer of the Ancients Smash Rune
15 Ancient Spear Grappling Hooks Rune
16 Sprint
17 Threatening Shout
17 Frenzy Sidearm Rune
18 Cleave Reaping Swing Rune
18 Ground Stomp Wrenching Smash Rune
18 Seismic Slam Stagger Rune
19 Earthquake
19 Rend Blood Lust Rune
19 Revenge Vengeance is Mine Rune
20 Whirlwind
21 Furious Charge
21 Leap Launch Rune
21 Weapon Throw Mighty Throw Rune
22 Battle Rage
22 Ignore Pain
22 Frenzy Triumph Rune
23 Ancient Spear Skirmish Rune
23 Sprint Rush Rune
23 Threatening Shout Intimidate Rune
24 Earthquake Giant's Stride Rune
24 Whirlwind Dust Devils Rune
25 Call of the Ancients
25 Seismic Slam Shattered Ground Rune
25 Revenge Best Server Cold Rune
25 Weapon Throw Richochet Rune
26 Overpower
26 Bash Punish Rune
26 Battle Rage Marauder's Rage Rune
26 Ignore Pain Bravado Rune
27 Hammer of the Ancients The Devil's Anvil Rune
27 Furious Charge Battering Ram Rune
28 War Cry
28 Ground Stomp Trembling Stomp Rune
28 Threatening Shout Falter Rune
29 Sprint Run Like the Wind Rune
29 Earthquake Chilling Earth Rune
29 Whirlwind Hurricane Rune
29 Overpower Storm of Steel Rune
30 Wrath of the Berserker

31+ Another 72 assorted runes

===

A Diablo 2 Barbarian will finish Normal difficulty with 20 different skills to choose from.

A Diablo 3 Barbarian will finish Normal difficulty (level 30, per Bashiok's confirmation) with 59 (FIFTY-NINE) different skills to choose from. He will continue gaining skills after level 30 all the way up to level 60 at the rate of about 2 new runes to try per level, for another 72 (SEVENTY-TWO) skills left to be earned by the end of Normal, or a total of 131 different skills to select by the time he's just about to start Inferno difficulty.

--------------

A build in Diablo 3 will consist of 5 things:
1) Skill choices (which 6 you will use - that is the core of your build
2) Supporting skill choices (which passives you take to make sense with that core)
3) Designing your gear around your build (what stats to prefer over what, which items you go that improve certain skills compared to a general raw damage increase instead, etc)
4) Gemming around your skill choices (around your core) - in Inferno+ characters, the gems that you use will worth SHITTON of money, so it is not child's play
5) If Blizzard somehow makes your hirelings just 1-2 percent relevant to Inferno gameplay, then you will need to gear/"talent" them up specifically for your build.

I wish people would understand that in Diablo 3 gear customization has the same role as character stats in the older games.

[alset85]

5) If Blizzard somehow makes your hirelings just 1-2 percent relevant to Inferno gameplay, then you will need to gear/"talent" them up specifically for your build.


I'm pretty sure hirelings don't exist outside of normal, and even then only single player.

[SirKicksalot]

At Blizzcon 2011 it was announced they'll follow you through all difficulties. They're available only in solo play.

[flagoon]

I don't think you know what customisation is.

As far as I know the word, I was correct. Besides, SirKicksalot post something very useful and really hard to argue with. I know that you don't like D3, I've seen your posts before. Personally I'm a big fan of new skill progression. I don't want to make another barbarian, just because I made a sucky build or want to try something else. As it was shown in one D3 movie, I can try melee wizard without punishing myself and have fun with that. You are saying that D2 has better customization, but 90% of each class in D2 were using one, optimal build.

[R-F]

<snip>

Clearly Call of Duty has more depth of customisation than all the Diablos combined! You are a GENIUS!


As far as I know the word, I was correct. Besides, SirKicksalot post something very useful and really hard to argue with. I know that you don't like D3, I've seen your posts before. Personally I'm a big fan of new skill progression. I don't want to make another barbarian, just because I made a sucky build or want to try something else. As it was shown in one D3 movie, I can try melee wizard without punishing myself and have fun with that. You are saying that D2 has better customization, but 90% of each class in D2 were using one, optimal build.

No one I knew used an optimal build. Hell, my father played it like a fiend and he played the least optimal build possible in Hardcore ladder (I think he hit 96 before getting finally bored of the game), which was a crazy sorceress build.

[flagoon]

Clearly Call of Duty has more depth of customisation than all the Diablos combined! You are a GENIUS!

Such bias. Such hate. It makes you blind for such obvious errors in your statement, that I will not downgrade you, myself or this threat to level where I answer this. It's clear you hate the game, everyone here knows this, no one care. Please join anti-blizz facebook page or something where you can compare D3 to CoD anytime you want.

[Gozuu]

Such bias. Such hate. It makes you blind for such obvious errors in your statement, that I will not downgrade you, myself or this threat to level where I answer this. It's clear you hate the game, everyone here knows this, no one care. Please join anti-blizz facebook page or something where you can compare D3 to CoD anytime you want.

I would "Like" this if possible. Spot on.

[R-F]

Such bias. Such hate. It makes you blind for such obvious errors in your statement, that I will not downgrade you, myself or this threat to level where I answer this. It's clear you hate the game, everyone here knows this, no one care. Please join anti-blizz facebook page or something where you can compare D3 to CoD anytime you want.

Alright, Gozuu, I know you can't point any errors in my statement and that's why you haven't done so.

Diablo 3 and the latest Call of Duty games use exactly the same customisation as each other. Diablo 3 seems to have, in fact, ripped it wholesale off the series because they are owned by the same company so why not?

[pkt-zer0]

Diablo 3 and the latest Call of Duty games use exactly the same customisation as each other.
What are you even comparing here? Sheer amount of options? Or the amount of viable options? Or the degree to which you're locked into a set of options?

[R-F]

What are you even comparing here? Sheer amount of options? Or the amount of viable options? Or the degree to which you're locked into a set of options?

The mechanic of customisation itself. As you level up, you gain the ability to use a variety of weapons (skills in Diablo 3) and perks (runes in Diablo 3). You don't get to choose to specialise, you just get given all the weapons/skills and perks/runes as you level up.

So, the customisation is choosing those weaponskills and prunes for each individual match of the game. That's not customisation, in my opinion, but Gozuu and similar fanbois seem convinced it is. Therefore, Call of Duty and Diablo 3 use exactly the same customisation as each other.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

The mechanic of customisation itself. As you level up, you gain the ability to use a variety of weapons (skills in Diablo 3) and perks (runes in Diablo 3). You don't get to choose to specialise, you just get given all the weapons/skills and perks/runes as you level up.

So, the customisation is choosing those weaponskills and prunes for each individual match of the game. That's not customisation, in my opinion, but Gozuu and similar fanbois seem convinced it is. Therefore, Call of Duty and Diablo 3 use exactly the same customisation as each other.

I consider myself to be completely on the fence about D3- but I don't really understand your argument. Please explain.

[R-F]

I consider myself to be completely on the fence about D3- but I don't really understand your argument. Please explain.

I don't know how I can explain more.

1. Play Call of Duty Black Ops multiplayer.
2. Play Diablo 3.
3. Look at the levelling on both.
4. Realise they're EXACTLY THE SAME in terms of how you get sidegrades spoonfed to you and how "customisation" works.
5. Laugh and go play Torchlight 2 instead.

[Hypernetic]

I consider myself to be completely on the fence about D3- but I don't really understand your argument. Please explain.

He is saying that Diablo 3 is like CoD because you unlock skills through leveling instead of opening a skill tree and clicking a box to unlock skills.

He doesn't think D3 has any customization because you aren't locked into the choices you make.

I understand his argument, but I think the word customization is incorrect. What I believe he is saying is that the game lacks variance or that the game is homogenized. So for example, nobody is a "frost wizard" or a "arcane wizard", every wizard is just a wizard that can specialize on the fly for the situation at hand.

For the record, I don't think this is a detractor from the game in any way. I think Diablo 3 is awesome, but I understand his argument.

[pkt-zer0]

The mechanic of customisation itself. As you level up, you gain the ability to use a variety of weapons (skills in Diablo 3) and perks (runes in Diablo 3). You don't get to choose to specialise, you just get given all the weapons/skills and perks/runes as you level up.
So, low selection lock-in. I think it has already been explained that high opportunity costs for experimentation decreases variety, so this isn't a bad thing per se. Also, I think the Nephalem Valour system (magic find buffs negated by changing skills/equips/whatever) is a clever way to handle the potential issue of constant skill-swapping in late-game.

[Gozuu]

I don't know how I can explain more.

1. Play Call of Duty Black Ops multiplayer.
2. Play Diablo 3.
3. Look at the levelling on both.
4. Realise they're EXACTLY THE SAME in terms of how you get sidegrades spoonfed to you and how "customisation" works.
5. Laugh and go play Torchlight 2 instead.

So, World of Warcraft and Call of Duty have the same level of customization as they both feature an "unlocking" system in both Skills/Weapons & Talents/Perks?

Diablo II & World of Warcraft share model of talent trees with unlocks. Diablo II do however have a stats-based upgrade system which is as outdated as Half-Life II is as a game by now. As mentioned before, did anyone ever play a max dexterity sorcerer? Hell no. You went online, found the best min/max build and that is how you played Diablo II. Is that any more interesting than what you get now? Hell no. It is more complicated and a waste of time. Diablo III allows you to pick a skill and upgrade it by runes.

It is incredibly irrelevant to discuss the customization of a video game unless you are speaking of graphical customizations. The complicated and great builds you can make in PoE features around.......1000 choices that gives +1% of that and +3 of that. Blizzard already realized that this is complete and utter shit. They even removed it from Mist of Pandaria. They simplified gaming to a level where you don't need a website for the best build made in an Excel Sheet.

If you wish gaming to be best enjoyed from min/max theory crafting. I'd suggest you stop playing now, as it is only going to get more and more simplistic and straightforward.

[ado]

Wait, aren't different skills drawn from different stats? Wouldn't that in itself make skill swapping obsolete, once you start building your gear towards utilizing the stats your core skills draw from? You'd have to have multiple sets of equipment to make skill swapping viable then...

[Subatomic]

So, low selection lock-in. I think it has already been explained that high opportunity costs for experimentation decreases variety, so this isn't a bad thing per se. Also, I think the Nephalem Valour system (magic find buffs negated by changing skills/equips/whatever) is a clever way to handle the potential issue of constant skill-swapping in late-game.

I agree. I liked the nonsensical Diablo 2 builds (Inferno-Sorceress was fun to play, but just not viable beyond normal difficulty), but I also think the skill tree system had massive problems inherent to its design, even after they added synergy bonuses to make early game skills more viable. This new system isn't perfect either, as I'd like more choice over when I get a specific skill instead of this pre-determined unlock path. Still, this all doesn't detract from the fact that I had immense fun playing the beta, and even the very limited skill/rune set available at level 13 allowed for some interesting variations.

[Hypernetic]

So, World of Warcraft and Call of Duty have the same level of customization as they both feature an "unlocking" system in both Skills/Weapons & Talents/Perks?

Diablo II & World of Warcraft share model of talent trees with unlocks. Diablo II do however have a stats-based upgrade system which is as outdated as Half-Life II is as a game by now. As mentioned before, did anyone ever play a max dexterity sorcerer? Hell no. You went online, found the best min/max build and that is how you played Diablo II. Is that any more interesting than what you get now? Hell no. It is more complicated and a waste of time. Diablo III allows you to pick a skill and upgrade it by runes.

It is incredibly irrelevant to discuss the customization of a video game unless you are speaking of graphical customizations. The complicated and great builds you can make in PoE features around.......1000 choices that gives +1% of that and +3 of that. Blizzard already realized that this is complete and utter shit. They even removed it from Mist of Pandaria. They simplified gaming to a level where you don't need a website for the best build made in an Excel Sheet.

If you wish gaming to be best enjoyed from min/max theory crafting. I'd suggest you stop playing now, as it is only going to get more and more simplistic and straightforward.


Well you can still theory craft things like secondary stats, trinket procs/uses, weapons, etc in MoP. I personally like theory crafting, but skill trees rarely (if ever) offered anything interesting on that front.

Making skills choices on skill trees in WoW or most any other game with skill trees basically boils down to:

Are you leveling? Build 1.

Are you raiding? Build 2.

Are you PVPing? Build 3.

Is it some super rare situation where a normally overlooked talent becomes good for one boss fight in an expansion? Build 4.

Are you an idiot? Builds 5+

So basically, I'm glad they are changing things too.

[Ninjafoodstuff]

He is saying that Diablo 3 is like CoD because you unlock skills through leveling instead of opening a skill tree and clicking a box to unlock skills.

He doesn't think D3 has any customization because you aren't locked into the choices you make.

I understand his argument, but I think the word customization is incorrect. What I believe he is saying is that the game lacks variance or that the game is homogenized. So for example, nobody is a "frost wizard" or a "arcane wizard", every wizard is just a wizard that can specialize on the fly for the situation at hand.

For the record, I don't think this is a detractor from the game in any way. I think Diablo 3 is awesome, but I understand his argument.

But how is that any different from choosing what equipment to use? I don't really see that as a problem.

[Hypernetic]

But how is that any different from choosing what equipment to use? I don't really see that as a problem.

I don't see it as a problem either, but he does for whatever reason. "Change is scary" is my best guess.


Wait, aren't different skills drawn from different stats? Wouldn't that in itself make skill swapping obsolete, once you start building your gear towards utilizing the stats your core skills draw from? You'd have to have multiple sets of equipment to make skill swapping viable then...


No, everything is based on weapon damage. Specific stats like intelligence or dexterity give a damage bonus to a specific class or two. (for example dexterity will give anyone who equips it dodge, but will only increase the damage of a monk or demon hunter).

[R-F]

He is saying that Diablo 3 is like CoD because you unlock skills through leveling instead of opening a skill tree and clicking a box to unlock skills.

He doesn't think D3 has any customization because you aren't locked into the choices you make.

I understand his argument, but I think the word customization is incorrect. What I believe he is saying is that the game lacks variance or that the game is homogenized. So for example, nobody is a "frost wizard" or a "arcane wizard", every wizard is just a wizard that can specialize on the fly for the situation at hand.

For the record, I don't think this is a detractor from the game in any way. I think Diablo 3 is awesome, but I understand his argument.

Pretty much spot on.


So, low selection lock-in. I think it has already been explained that high opportunity costs for experimentation decreases variety, so this isn't a bad thing per se. Also, I think the Nephalem Valour system (magic find buffs negated by changing skills/equips/whatever) is a clever way to handle the potential issue of constant skill-swapping in late-game.

The same builds are going to be played over and over anyway, I don't know why people think it's going to make a massive difference. Skills will naturally synergise, LoL-esque builds will be posted everywhere and everyone will play the same thing.


So, World of Warcraft and Call of Duty have the same level of customization as they both feature an "unlocking" system in both Skills/Weapons & Talents/Perks?

Diablo II & World of Warcraft share model of talent trees with unlocks. Diablo II do however have a stats-based upgrade system which is as outdated as Half-Life II is as a game by now. As mentioned before, did anyone ever play a max dexterity sorcerer? Hell no. You went online, found the best min/max build and that is how you played Diablo II. Is that any more interesting than what you get now? Hell no. It is more complicated and a waste of time. Diablo III allows you to pick a skill and upgrade it by runes.

It is incredibly irrelevant to discuss the customization of a video game unless you are speaking of graphical customizations. The complicated and great builds you can make in PoE features around.......1000 choices that gives +1% of that and +3 of that. Blizzard already realized that this is complete and utter shit. They even removed it from Mist of Pandaria. They simplified gaming to a level where you don't need a website for the best build made in an Excel Sheet.

If you wish gaming to be best enjoyed from min/max theory crafting. I'd suggest you stop playing now, as it is only going to get more and more simplistic and straightforward.

No, because World of Warcraft does (or, rather, did, considering the shitty mangling of the Talent Tree system we've all come to expect from Blizzard) have some element of customisation of your character.

There's ways to improve it without killing it dead. See Path of Exile. If you don't get this, there's no help for you. That's assuming any help to begin with.

Yeah, instead they make a game designed for CoD-tards which they're hoping to get from Activision. Genius way to defend the system, Gozuu.

Keep saying that whilst games like Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Warlock Master of the Arcane etc are released and they grow ever more popular than the swiftly becoming maligned "old school giants" like Blizzard and BioWare.

[Subatomic]

No, everything is based on weapon damage. Specific stats like intelligence or dexterity give a damage bonus to a specific class or two. (for example dexterity will give anyone who equips it dodge, but will only increase the damage of a monk or demon hunter).

That's true, though we don't know much about later items. The item enchantments in the beta were fairly limited, so it's entirely possible there will be items wich increase a specific spell or damage type (+x% arcane damage for example).

Edit:

There's ways to improve it without killing it dead. See Path of Exile. If you don't get this, there's no help for you. That's assuming any help to begin with.

Yeah, instead they make a game designed for CoD-tards which they're hoping to get from Activision. Genius way to defend the system, Gozuu.

Keep saying that whilst games like Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Warlock Master of the Arcane etc are released and they grow ever more popular than the swiftly becoming maligned "old school giants" like Blizzard and BioWare.

I don't think the somewhat bloated skill forest of PoE is really an improvement. It's a very different system to D3's for sure, so if that works better for you... great.
I just don't get this superiority complex you have over it. Be glad you have the option of at least three Hack&Slash item hunt games this year with very different approaches, but why all the negativity towards the people who prefer D3's system?

[Gozuu]

No, because World of Warcraft does (or, rather, did, considering the shitty mangling of the Talent Tree system we've all come to expect from Blizzard) have some element of customisation of your character.

There's ways to improve it without killing it dead. See Path of Exile. If you don't get this, there's no help for you. That's assuming any help to begin with.

Yeah, instead they make a game designed for CoD-tards which they're hoping to get from Activision. Genius way to defend the system, Gozuu.

Keep saying that whilst games like Torchlight 2, Path of Exile, Warlock Master of the Arcane etc are released and they grow ever more popular than the swiftly becoming maligned "old school giants" like Blizzard and BioWare.

Path of Exile overdoes the stats min/max'ing. There are even trees that gives +3 Spell Dmg which unlocks three other minor trees of +3 Spell Dmg each. What the actual fuck? Make it +12 in one and be done with it already?

I will keep saying it. Torchlight does not have 5% of the players that Diablo has had. Torchlight II will not be 10% as successful as Diablo III. Path of Exile, Warlock Master of the Arcane are not 2% as successful as the original Diablo. They do not innovate. They do not bring ANYTHING new to the table. Just look at Path of Exiles UI. Hey, where did you get this idea of Health+Mana Globes from? Damn human brethren, good thing you're not like Infinity Ward whom just copy paste shit together and release it as something knew.

How can you be so blind R-F? Really?

[R-F]

Path of Exile overdoes the stats min/max'ing. There are even trees that gives +3 Spell Dmg which unlocks three other minor trees of +3 Spell Dmg each. What the actual fuck? Make it +12 in one and be done with it already?

I will keep saying it. Torchlight does not have 5% of the players that Diablo has had. Torchlight II will not be 10% as successful as Diablo III. Path of Exile, Warlock Master of the Arcane are not 2% as successful as the original Diablo. They do not innovate. They do not bring ANYTHING new to the table. Just look at Path of Exiles UI. Hey, where did you get this idea of Health+Mana Globes from? Damn human brethren, good thing you're not like Infinity Ward whom just copy paste shit together and release it as something knew.

How can you be so blind R-F? Really?

I love how obvious it is you have no idea what any of those games are.

You're just working off second hand knowledge and guesswork, aren't you? You've obviously got no real knowledge of any of these games, and your sole purpose on these forums is just to fucking troll and irritate people.

In short: GTFO.

[Subatomic]

I love how obvious it is you have no idea what any of those games are.

You're just working off second hand knowledge and guesswork, aren't you? You've obviously got no real knowledge of any of these games, and your sole purpose on these forums is just to fucking troll and irritate people.

And I thought thats your purpose on these forums. :P

[Gozuu]

I love how obvious it is you have no idea what any of those games are.

You're just working off second hand knowledge and guesswork, aren't you? You've obviously got no real knowledge of any of these games, and your sole purpose on these forums is just to fucking troll and irritate people.

In short: GTFO.

So once again you resort to calling me a troll instead of forming any kind of logic response? I am well aware of PoE and should I link you a screenshot of my Paradox newsletter that arrived this morning to make you aware of my knowledge of the game?

I work with facts, gameplay, even beta participation and what do you? Criticize a game for removing irrelevant min/max features that no one except of theory crafters enjoy? Nah, you work yourself around confrontation of your lesser knowledge and quite frankly, disgusting attitude towards Blizzard for no reason.

[R-F]

So once again you resort to calling me a troll instead of forming any kind of logic response? I am well aware of PoE and should I link you a screenshot of my Paradox newsletter that arrived this morning to make you aware of my knowledge of the game?

I work with facts, gameplay, even beta participation and what do you? Criticize a game for removing irrelevant min/max features that no one except of theory crafters enjoy? Nah, you work yourself around confrontation of your lesser knowledge and quite frankly, disgusting attitude towards Blizzard for no reason.

You know of the game and yet you don't know what it is. Sure, man. If you knew anything of the game, you'd know it wasn't even a fucking ARPG, but instead a Civ5-esque turn-based strategy game. I was comparing it's depth of character development, but apparently you think a game with a Civ5 menu looks EXACTLY like Diablo 2. ;)

Sorry I managed to catch you out, but now the shame is on you for having NO idea about any of these games.

The fact I have played every single one of these games and I know what these games are like? Unlike you, it seems, who has no fucking idea.

Hahahah. My DISGUSTING attitude towards Blizzard. HOW DARE I UPSET POOR LITTLE BLIZZARD?! :( They have no money, they're not owned and controlled by one of the biggest franchise-raping publishers in the world and they're not releasing shitty games to just get cash off their fans before their final giant deathrattle.

[Subatomic]

To reiterate the point from my previous post... I really, really don't get all this hate spewing between you guys. We have at least three games (Path of Exile, Torchlight 2, Diablo 3) this year which fit into the Hack& slash item hunt sub-genre. All of these games have different approaches to character progression, from Torchlight 2's classic skill trees to PoE's skill forest to Diablo 3's spell/rune unlock system. They even have different buisiness models too, from F2P to "classic" to whatever you'd call D3's model.
I'm personally glad I have all these options, so I just don't get this mentality from either of you that the other side's preferred game must be absolute shit and any who like/don't like must be payed by Blizzard or alternitavely have a irrational, pathological hatred for them.

[Gozuu]

You know of the game and yet you don't know what it is. Sure, man. If you knew anything of the game, you'd know it wasn't even a fucking ARPG, but instead a Civ5-esque turn-based strategy game. I was comparing it's depth of character development, but apparently you think a game with a Civ5 menu looks EXACTLY like Diablo 2. ;)

Sorry I managed to catch you out, but now the shame is on you for having NO idea about any of these games.

The fact I have played every single one of these games and I know what these games are like? Unlike you, it seems, who has no fucking idea.

Hahahah. My DISGUSTING attitude towards Blizzard. HOW DARE I UPSET POOR LITTLE BLIZZARD?! :( They have no money, they're not owned and controlled by one of the biggest franchise-raping publishers in the world and they're not releasing shitty games to just get cash off their fans before their final giant deathrattle.

You twists my words towards your benefit. I didn't compare Warlock Master of the Arcane to Diablo's gameplay, graphics or alike. I compared it's popularity, which was your initial statement that it was becoming more and more popular, so how did you manage to catch me out?

I don't know what kind of agenda you're on, but it seems you favor independent developers and have a grudge on the AAA developers and publishers? Get over it man.

[R-F]

To reiterate the point from my previous post... I really, really don't get all this hate spewing between you guys. We have at least three games (Path of Exile, Torchlight 2, Diablo 3) this year which fit into the Hack& slash item hunt sub-genre. All of these games have different approaches to character progression, from Torchlight 2's classic skill trees to PoE's skill forest to Diablo 3's spell/rune unlock system. They even have different buisiness models too, from F2P to "classic" to whatever you'd call D3's model.
I'm personally glad I have all these options, so I just don't get this mentality from either of you that the other side's preferred game must be absolute shit and any who like/don't like must be payed by Blizzard or alternitavely have a irrational, pathological hatred for them.

My issue is that Gozuu is just the typical hate-spewing fanboi that only comes on these forums to troll and browbeat anyone who disagrees with him into submission. Any thread he comes into instantly boils over and becomes insulting or painful to even chat in and he's the kind of person should be immediately banned from these forums.

Just look at this thread. (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?3722-Diablo-3-Pretty-Much-The-Worst-of-What-Everyone-Was-Expecting) Everything is okay until Gozuu comes in and shits all over it.


You twists my words towards your benefit. I didn't compare Warlock Master of the Arcane to Diablo's gameplay, graphics or alike. I compared it's popularity, which was your initial statement that it was becoming more and more popular, so how did you manage to catch me out?

I don't know what kind of agenda you're on, but it seems you favor independent developers and have a grudge on the AAA developers and publishers? Get over it man.

You said it didn't innovate and ripped it all off Diablo 2. Or do you so rapidly forget any statement you make before in the goal of only trolling these forums?

Oh, I'm the one with an agenda. Nah, man, it's called not being biased towards anything in particular. I dislike things that are bad and like things that are good, instead of declaring something good or bad because of who developed it. Starcraft 2 was a good move from Blizzard, Diablo 3 sucks hairy dog bawls.

You see? I give praise and insult when it deserves it, unlike you who seems quite content to suck the metaphorical phallus of Blizzard.

[Gozuu]

You said it didn't innovate and ripped it all off Diablo 2. Or do you so rapidly forget any statement you make before in the goal of only trolling these forums?

Oh, I'm the one with an agenda. Nah, man, it's called not being biased towards anything in particular. I dislike things that are bad and like things that are good, instead of declaring something good or bad because of who developed it. Starcraft 2 was a good move from Blizzard, Diablo 3 sucks hairy dog bawls.

You see? I give praise and insult when it deserves it, unlike you who seems quite content to suck the metaphorical phallus of Blizzard.

I said that Path of Exile did not innovate anything to Diablo II. You read it how you wish to see it ;)

Your logic of my fanboyism with Blizzard would prove true if I still maintained an active account in Cataclysm with a pre-order on Mist of Pandaria. Sure, I dig Blizzard games. Am I all over their games? Not at all. Starcraft II was in my interest due to its Custom Games portfolio, not because of the actual game.

So once you get your own facts straight, try "catching me out" again. It may actually happen some day, perhaps the same day where you will use facts and actual arguments over troll-calling and claims of fanboyism =)

[R-F]

I said that Path of Exile did not innovate anything to Diablo II. You read it how you wish to see it ;)

Your logic of my fanboyism with Blizzard would prove true if I still maintained an active account in Cataclysm with a pre-order on Mist of Pandaria. Sure, I dig Blizzard games. Am I all over their games? Not at all. Starcraft II was in my interest due to its Custom Games portfolio, not because of the actual game.

So once you get your own facts straight, try "catching me out" again. It may actually happen some day, perhaps the same day where you will use facts and actual arguments over troll-calling and claims of fanboyism =)

It's now obvious you have some form of very focused amnesia, so I'll just quote you and let everyone else decide whether you're just covering your arse because you have no idea what you're talking about.


Path of Exile, Warlock Master of the Arcane are not 2% as successful as the original Diablo. They do not innovate. They do not bring ANYTHING new to the table.

Oh, of course, now after fellating Blizzard for an entire thread despite how shitty and low quality Diablo 3 is, you drop the BOMBSHELL that you're maintaining a Mists of Pandaria account despite defending design decisions to be implemented in it in other threads. Wow, man, you're like a low class troll. This is like some 4chan shit up in here.

Sure, I will, as soon as you have an argument to counter instead of "ITS BETTER NO LOOK ITS BETTER NO LOOK ITS BETTER", even after people post screenshots or verifiable facts.


Clearly a fully 3D game looks like a 2D isometric game. Did you even look at it?
Diablo 2 (http://webcdn.pathofexile.com/gen/image/YTozOntpOjA7aTowO2k6/MjthOjI6e3M6MjoiaWQi/O2k6MTUxO3M6NDoic2l6/ZSI7czo0OiJvcmlnIjt9/aToxO2k6NDt9/1f03b85226/Path_of_Exile_Screenshot_88.jpg)
Path of Exile (http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-yS2_VZveiUc/TuVvlvN9l5I/AAAAAAAAC5M/2cM8M8K_Rr8/s1600/Free+Download+Games+Diablo+2+Full+Version+pc.jpeg)
OH SHIT SORRY THEY JUST LOOK SO SIMILAR I GOT THEM ALL CONFUSED UP.

On a scale of Diablo II & Diablo III graphics, Path of Exile is closer to Diablo II.

[Gozuu]

It's now obvious you have some form of very focused amnesia, so I'll just quote you and let everyone else decide whether you're just covering your arse because you have no idea what you're talking about.



Oh, of course, now after fellating Blizzard for an entire thread despite how shitty and low quality Diablo 3 is, you drop the BOMBSHELL that you're maintaining a Mists of Pandaria account despite defending design decisions to be implemented in it in other threads. Wow, man, you're like a low class troll. This is like some 4chan shit up in here.

Sure, I will, as soon as you have an argument to counter instead of "ITS BETTER NO LOOK ITS BETTER NO LOOK ITS BETTER", even after people post screenshots or verifiable facts.

Yes, yes, twist and twist. PoE does not innovate, that Warlock should have been Torchlight can't be overlooked. This error shall forever be deemed as truth! Lol, yes right.

No, I fully support the changes to the talent system of Mist of Pandaria and no, I did not say I maintain a MoP account I said I claim that I do not maintain one.

Why do you even continue? All you can dig up is errors and your own interpretion of what I write.

[R-F]

Yes, yes, twist and twist. PoE does not innovate, that Warlock should have been Torchlight can't be overlooked. This error shall forever be deemed as truth! Lol, yes right.

No, I fully support the changes to the talent system of Mist of Pandaria and no, I did not say I maintain a MoP account I said I claim that I do not maintain one.

Why do you even continue? All you can dig up is errors and your own interpretion of what I write.

Oh, no, Path of Exile doesn't innovate, instead building on the work of a company that was, at the time, great! HOW DARE THEY GIVE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT?!

Is English like your second or third language? It's the only way to explain how you manage to have all these "misunderstood sentences".

I'd suggest that route as your next escape mechanism, at least. ;)

[Ninjafoodstuff]

Seriously people, calm down. It's only a game.

[Subatomic]

In a probably futile effort to talk about what this thread was supposed to be about, I'd like to hear about your favourite classes and which way you plan to play them. If Gozuu and R-F could kindly fuck off to the other thread about D3, that'd be great!

Me, I'm probably first going to play a wizard with an arcane-centric skill set, though I'd also like to try out how viable a close range wizard is.

[Gozuu]

Oh, no, Path of Exile doesn't innovate, instead building on the work of a company that was, at the time, great! HOW DARE THEY GIVE CUSTOMERS WHAT THEY WANT?!

Is English like your second or third language? It's the only way to explain how you manage to have all these "misunderstood sentences".

I'd suggest that route as your next escape mechanism, at least. ;)

Yes, English is my second language and my grammar isn't at all what it used to be in school. So you could say that would be my explanation to why you firstly didn't understand my sentence and why you can now pick on my errors :)

[duff]

Seriously people, calm down. It's only a game.

This, R-F your carrying on like Diablo 3 is a sentient being that is trying to murder your family. You know you don't have to actually play it and it won't hurt you. Go and put your confused and convoluted ranting in the thread you specifically made for that purpose.

[R-F]

Yes, English is my second language and my grammar isn't at all what it used to be in school. So you could say that would be my explanation to why you firstly didn't understand my sentence and why you can now pick on my errors :)

Ah, the eternal refuge of the troll.

I give up, anyway, it's like smacking my face into a brick wall but that brick wall is made of shit.

[Hypernetic]

In a probably futile effort to talk about what this thread was supposed to be about, I'd like to hear about your favourite classes and which way you plan to play them. If Gozuu and R-F could kindly fuck off to the other thread about D3, that'd be great!

Me, I'm probably first going to play a wizard with an arcane-centric skill set, though I'd also like to try out how viable a close range wizard is.


My first class will be a Barb and then probably a Witch Doctor after that. I initially wanted to play WD first, but after much time in the beta I decided the Barb is where it's at. Leaping around smashing things and just generally not giving a fuck is my kind of play style =D. (in a Diablo kind of game, which is kind of weird since I generally gravitate towards healers in MMOs for some reason.)

The earthquake thing is the skill I'm most looking forward to using. 2000% weapon damage as fire channeled AoE? YES PLZ.

[Freud]

Ah, the eternal refuge of the troll.

I give up, anyway, it's like smacking my face into a brick wall but that brick wall is made of shit.

Please do so.


In a probably futile effort to talk about what this thread was supposed to be about, I'd like to hear about your favourite classes and which way you plan to play them. If Gozuu and R-F could kindly fuck off to the other thread about D3, that'd be great!

Me, I'm probably first going to play a wizard with an arcane-centric skill set, though I'd also like to try out how viable a close range wizard is.

Wizard was one of the more fun classes in the beta. Frost Nova + Wave of Force was a hilarious combo. I don't know if it did anything a simple Wave of Force wouldn't do but freezing and then blowing stuff up was more fun.

[Subatomic]

Leaping around smashing things and just generally not giving a fuck is my kind of play style =D.

Did you try out the monk during beta? The short range teleporting looks quite fun and the monks seems to have a lot of party support / survivability skills compared to other classes (it's probably going to be my class of choice for hardcore mode).

[flagoon]

I think I'll be playing Witch Doctor mainly, what is very strange, because necromancer was my least favorable hero in D2. But probably I will do him for pure spell damage, without minions. For hardcore Monk looks good, but Demon Hunter is better.

[pkt-zer0]

The same builds are going to be played over and over anyway, I don't know why people think it's going to make a massive difference. Skills will naturally synergise, LoL-esque builds will be posted everywhere and everyone will play the same thing.
But, unlike D2, same builds will only be used for the same dungeons, instead of the entire game.

[lhzr]

Please stop engaging him. It's incredibly boring and lame and it kills the thread.

[Skeletor68]

Hey guys finally back to this thread after the Open Beta.

Some features I really liked:
- The new identification feature is nice. Magical (blue) are identified straight away but there's a lovely little pause to identify the rares (yellow). It keeps the suspense without getting in the way too much. Great idea.

- Being able to see the little caricatures of your toon up close from the menu screen. It's a cool little touch to be able to see all the crazy gear in better detail.

- The physics of thwacking monsters out of their skin and across the screen. So much fun bashing a monster down a pit and seeing the corpse tumbling down.

Somethings I didn't quite like:
- Crafting is fun but just dumping money into levelling the smith doesn't seem as cool as collecting the pages of training I saw in earlier builds.

- Finding runes instead of unlocking seemed like it would have been more fun and game changing. I guess gems will help with that. I understand Blizz probably didn't want the drops to be so random that people wouldn't be able to see or risk playing with a lot of the different rune types but it would be a pretty amazing feeling to find the giant toad rune for WD for instance.

- I wonder if every boss is going to have a cycle of spawning minions for the sake of access to health orbs.

- Not too sure about how diverse weapon types are going to feel yet with everyone getting access to using stuff in the beta for generic items. Too early to tell most likely.

That's a very basic rundown of the things which came to mind. I had just enough time to run through it with the Barb and WD and only the first level or two with the others. I can see myself getting crazy excited about rare item finds though. It was great fun otherwise!

[arathain]

I'm sticking with my original inclination, which is Demon Hunter. I really like the mobility and control options. Dodge away, lock them down, blow them up. Playing a few levels of Monk made me waver, though. I really felt the impact of melee, which is hugely impressive for a game in which you click on things from a remote view point.

Ah, who am I kidding. I'll be playing all the classes to varying degrees as the mood takes me. Shared gold and blacksmith will make that even more pleasant.

[Hypernetic]

Did you try out the monk during beta? The short range teleporting looks quite fun and the monks seems to have a lot of party support / survivability skills compared to other classes (it's probably going to be my class of choice for hardcore mode).

Yeah, monk is really fun too.