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DarkFenix
04-05-2012, 07:57 PM
So, I just read the RPS article on the Chaos Edition. What sort of interest level do people have in this? Personally I'm very interested in getting some more races. I'm not too concerned about price, there was a discount on LE and half price sales on the BB games have been pretty frequent.

I'm not too interested in the Underworld team, but the Chaos Dwarf team looks fun and the Khorne team looks suicidally risky but ridiculously bashy.

What's other people's take on it?

Heliocentric
04-05-2012, 08:47 PM
I'll buy it if its £5 on steam... Thats it. £5 to be up to date with patches for a while, seems more than generous.

Vexing Vision
04-05-2012, 08:50 PM
IF it's compatible with LE players, I'll buy it for a fiver during a sale.

If it's not compatible with LE players, I won't bother, because

a) I cannot see many people switching over;
b) I refuse to support that.

Gorm
04-05-2012, 09:00 PM
I probably will buy it, but it doesnt seem like enough new teams or star players to merit it really. But then again i bought most of the Empire: Total War DLC so i'm just like that.

Heliocentric
04-05-2012, 09:05 PM
b) I refuse to support that.

Never bought a sports franchise? They cant re-imagine the game so they just change a few numbers and re-release.
But i think if they took a Dawn of War model (all inter-operatable but with racial limits based on ownership) getting your ass kicked by a khorne team would really encourage you to drop $10 on the khorne dlc.

Screwie
04-05-2012, 11:39 PM
I'm pretty sure I posted in the DoD thread that it is compatible with LE, and I'm pretty sure I got that information from the official BB forums. But I'm tired and I've made a lot of posts since then, so I'd appreciate it if someone else would let me know if I did in fact do this or I'm going crazy?

However, I did manage to find this (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?54-RPS-Blood-Bowl-League-The-many-many-Divisions-of-Death!&p=110392&viewfull=1#post110392) post o'mine:


Well, I simply don't trust Cyanide to get a brand new team right. They made a pics ear of wizards with their extended inducements, which is pretty blatant for a balance error.

Also, it's freaking Khorne, the lamest, most boring option possible. And as it's Khorne, you can expect yet another bashy Chaos team whose tactics will only vary marginally with the other two Chaos teams already in the game. Given Cyanide's track record with balance, I would not be surprised if their big guy was a Bloodthirster.

:(

Rakysh
04-05-2012, 11:39 PM
Any word on what the team structure will be like for the Khorne buggers?

Screwie
04-05-2012, 11:43 PM
I just went back to peek at the official forums, no stat block for the Daemons yet.

Rakysh
04-05-2012, 11:50 PM
If they've got some funky-ass special individual rule set I'll be annoyed. Also I'll be annoyed if they're just red orcs. Basically, I'm going to be annoyed.

Heliocentric
05-05-2012, 12:29 AM
If they've got some funky-ass special individual rule set I'll be annoyed. Also I'll be annoyed if they're just red orcs. Basically, I'm going to be annoyed.

If you actually need to summon the thirster by causing enough KO/CAS I'm totally down with that.

NieA7
05-05-2012, 01:06 AM
I've had a hell of a lot of fun that wouldn't have happened otherwise thanks to Cyanide releasing BB, even with all the bugs and general shonkyness, so I'll probably get it at full price as a thank-you (provided it's not £40 or something). I want to try Chaos Dwarves and Underworld might be interesting, but the lack of star players and this weird Khorne nonsense when there's two perfectly good teams waiting in the wings is pretty disappointing so I can see why people aren't keen. I know GW don't like Slann but I'd love to give them a go.

That said if CE and LE won't play online together then they're officially out of their minds.

X_kot
05-05-2012, 01:17 AM
If they'll do the same promo for current owners as they did for the LE, I'll get it right away - I've been wanting to play Underworld for a while now. If not, I'll pick it up later when the price comes down. More Star Players would have been nice, and I don't care a whit for the demon nonsense, but I would like to contribute to the continuation of this game. At least Cyanide hasn't embraced the DLC model for BB (yet...).

duff
05-05-2012, 01:28 AM
Wait, they're actually making a whole new team up (Khorne)?

DarkFenix
05-05-2012, 02:21 AM
Here's what I could find on the Khorne team, apparently this is out of some magazine a while back so don't take it as gospel.



0-12 Beastmen 60,000 6 3 3 8 Horns
0-4 Chaos Warrior 100,000 5 4 3 9 None
0-2 Blood Letter 130,000 6 5 3 7 Frenzy, Daemonic Aura
0-1 Blood Thirster 240,000 6 8 3 10 Block, Break Tackle, Dirty Player, Mighty Blow, Unstable, Daemonic Aura


Unstable means the player has to succeed a 3+ roll between drives or simply disappears for the rest of the match.

Daemonic Aura means that player's armour can't be reduced (claw, mb, chainsaw etc.) but any injury that player receives counts as dead.

Skill access on the BT I believe is SM on normals, BL's are apparently GSM (unreliable source on that though). Other players are the same as Chaos counterparts.

Looks like a stupendously bashy team. Two absurdly strong bloodletters, which are great apart from the fact that they cost 130k and probably won't survive more than a couple of games each. Also a ridiculously powerful and nigh indestructible big guy, who will probably never finish a game.

Seems a mix of horribly overpowered and totally useless. A 130k AV7 player with a shorter life expectancy than a snotling. But on the other hand an invincible, unblockable, untackleable death machine for a big guy.

boots468
05-05-2012, 06:28 AM
That would be a truly awful roster. I didn't expect an interesting and balanced race but that's just horrible. ST8 Block, Mighty Blow, Break Tackle as starting skills!? With a random, no way to influence, 1/3 chance of losing the best player in the entire game at the start of each drive? Eh?

In the screen shots released so far there's no Chaos Warriors or beastmen, so hopefully the original source was mistaken, but you never know with Cyanide.

Zoraster
05-05-2012, 06:44 AM
I'm pretty sure I posted in the DoD thread that it is compatible with LE, and I'm pretty sure I got that information from the official BB forums.

That has come from a throwaway word from PMCC (the codemonkey) which has received zero clarification despite repeated requests. Even if it isn’t another example of poor English giving a false impression (worth noting they have form in this area) it could mean nothing more than the same shared lobby we currently have with DE Edition users for example. In truth what possible form of compatibility could there be without destroying the market for CE? It is DLC level content (2 teams, 1 star, 1 stadium, plus a made up team and presumably star) so how many people will buy it at £15+ if they don’t have to?

I think this is a step too far from Cyanide. Holding back so much content for another release when there is so little left to add to complete the game just screams cynical money grab

Squiz
05-05-2012, 08:20 AM
Posted this in the comments section of the frontpage post as well: I won't buy the new version for as long as possible if it isn't reasonably priced in relation to the content it delivers (so maybe 5-10EUR in the bargain bin). And I agree with what Vexing Vision has said before: I don't want to support this kind of thing.

Jarvis
05-05-2012, 09:38 AM
The actual question is what does this league intend to do?

Assume the worst that the new edition won't be compatible (if it is then we've no problem) will the league be swapping over to the newest edition again like last time?

Would that be straight away or down the line after there's been a decent price sale?

Screwie
05-05-2012, 09:55 AM
*hideous roster*

It looks dreadful, doesn't even hold water thematically (why don't the Chaos Warriors and BT also have Frenzy?)...

I would also suspect that mutations are not something daemons can get, since one of the reasons Chaos Pact was overlooked was the time needed to make the team.

I don't know if I will buy this edition or not. Underworld, Chaos Dwarfs and Bomber Dribblesnot I could see myself using. But I already know I'll never touch the Daemon side and frankly I don't ever want to see them in the DoD.

President Weasel
05-05-2012, 10:57 AM
I figure the 15 Euros is really the cost of keeping the servers running. I would have far preferred to see a full roster of star players than a brand new, unplaytested team. I'll happily buy the new edition anyway if the leagues are moving to it - but personally I'll be a lot happier if we don't allow the new team until 6 months have gone past and there's empirical information on whether it's cheap bullshit or roughly balanced.

NieA7
05-05-2012, 12:41 PM
I would also suspect that mutations are not something daemons can get, since one of the reasons Chaos Pact was overlooked was the time needed to make the team.

Well they had to add mutations to gobbos and trolls for Underworld, so the only mutations pact would need would be Ogre, Dark Elf and Marauder (which would be a whole new model anyway). Seems a bit of a crappy reason not to do them.

DarkFenix
05-05-2012, 01:13 PM
Well I reckon I'll pick it up straight away, whether or not the league switches over to it. Then I'll see soon enough what all the fuss is about. As for the league, maybe wait until the first major sale of the game to bother, assuming it's worth doing at all. Even if the daemon team is a pile of arse, the other two teams are tried and tested oldies at least.

Hopefully the two versions will simply be compatible (unlikely, because Cyanide), then the whole issue will be moot.

Screwie
05-05-2012, 01:25 PM
Well they had to add mutations to gobbos and trolls for Underworld, so the only mutations pact would need would be Ogre, Dark Elf and Marauder (which would be a whole new model anyway). Seems a bit of a crappy reason not to do them.

Yeah its difficult to justify their reasoning - unless they had their hearts set on not only a new Marauder model but new "chaosy" Ogre/Troll/Skaven/Dark Elf models too, to make the team look cohesive.

DarkFenix
06-05-2012, 12:20 PM
A smidge more info on the source of that Khorne team, it was published in the first edition of the official Blood Bowl magazine, so it was from an official GW (or at least GW-approved) source. But that was in tandem with the release of the 4th edition rules, which were so hated they were subsequently redacted. So that team roster is one for a rule version that doesn't exist anymore.

mrpier
06-05-2012, 01:10 PM
I'll probably get it as soon as I can, depending on price of course, but I can't see it being too expensive.

ChainsawHands
06-05-2012, 02:09 PM
I'll buy it pretty much straight away. I mean, unless it's £30 or something ridiculous.

potatoedoughnut
06-05-2012, 05:43 PM
I"ll probably pass until it's REALLY cheap. Not interested in playing as any of the new teams (against would be fun, bar Khorne). Hope the DoD doesn't move to it.

Dr_Mechano
16-05-2012, 02:20 PM
Just to confirm, Cyanide have said that yes CE is compatible with LE, infact LE players will be patched so that while they cannot access the new teams, they'll be able to play against them.

News on the Khorne Daemon team is that it has Bloodletter Heralds and a Juggernaught as the big guy. The rest of the lineup is still in the air.

Yeah this best not be a full £30 price tag, I'd expect £10 at most since it's barely one third of the stuff that was added with Legendary edition, a lot of the Star Players are still missing, there's still 2 teams missing, Chaos Pact and Slann. Personally I'm really not sure about the Daemon team, I mean sure if they went with a Daemon mixed team it would be kind of fun.

It seems like the only game to even make reference to the fact that they're are other Daemons than Khorne and Nurgle was Warhammer online, guess Slaanesh just isn't kid friendly enough for them to use.

Unfortunately GW have said that because Slann nolonger fit in with their idea of the race (the big slow fat frogs) that Slann will never make it to the PC Cyanide version of the game.

Screwie
16-05-2012, 02:29 PM
News on the Khorne Daemon team is that it has Bloodletter Heralds and a Juggernaught as the big guy. The rest of the lineup is still in the air.

Actually screenshots have already confirmed the big guy to be a Bloodthirster, unless the daemon team is getting two big guys. Hmm.


Unfortunately GW have said that because Slann nolonger fit in with their idea of the race (the big slow fat frogs) that Slann will never make it to the PC Cyanide version of the game.

Guessing that some management turnover at GW has given the company a "new outlook" on their minor brands and they changed their mind on Slaan. But it's not like the notion of Blood Bowl even fits into the main Warhammer world, let alone the other interesting additions like chainsaws or deathrollers (or chaos dwarfs, for that matter).

Big sigh of relief that it will be compatible with LE, at least.

Vexing Vision
16-05-2012, 02:35 PM
Just to confirm, Cyanide have said that yes CE is compatible with LE, infact LE players will be patched so that while they cannot access the new teams, they'll be able to play against them.

That's excellent and very welcome news. Do you have a source you can link me to?

Zoraster
16-05-2012, 02:47 PM
That's excellent and very welcome news. Do you have a source you can link me to?

I rather suspect you'll find that is just further proof that their marketing strategy works VV. They still haven't said anything of the sort to my knowledge.

The one crumb to cling onto is the recent revelation that they are adopting DLC for the extra colleges in DB so maybe they are looking at that option for the CE content.

Vexing Vision
16-05-2012, 02:55 PM
I rather suspect you'll find that is just further proof that their marketing strategy works VV. They still haven't said anything of the sort to my knowledge.

Their marketing strategy is "let's confuse our players and not tell them anything but spread all kinds of rumours until they buy Chaos Edition out of fear"?


Mhmm. I need to try THAT one at one point.

Dr_Mechano
16-05-2012, 04:01 PM
Yeah since they're a French company pretty much 75% of the stuff is things being pulled from the French section of the official forums where they seem to be doing their communicating.

It was posted somewhere in the bigass Chaos Edition thread on the official forums.

Gorm
16-05-2012, 04:05 PM
(or chaos dwarfs, for that matter)

Chaos Dwarfs are in the warhammer world. They even have a small army list from the Tamurkhan campaign released by Warhammer Forge. You can get some really good models for them from forgeworld/warhammer forge. (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/CHAOS_DWARFS?filter_reset=1)

Dr_Mechano
16-05-2012, 04:15 PM
http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1127&p=14194&hilit=Chaos+edition+compatible+with+legendary#p141 94

That is the link to the forum post, a developer (pmcc) confirms that Legendary is compatible with Chaos edition.

Screwie
16-05-2012, 04:16 PM
Chaos Dwarfs are in the warhammer world. They even have a small army list from the Tamurkhan campaign released by Warhammer Forge. You can get some really good models for them from forgeworld/warhammer forge. (http://www.forgeworld.co.uk/Warhammer/CHAOS_DWARFS?filter_reset=1)

Oh yeah I've seen those. But as I'm sure you know, for the longest time it felt like GW wanted to pretend they didn't exist and I was poking fun at that. :)

Gorm
16-05-2012, 04:22 PM
Yea they just ignored them. Slaan are still in Warhammer, they lead the Lizardmen but they are just really fat magical frogs.

Vexing Vision
16-05-2012, 04:33 PM
http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=1127&p=14194&hilit=Chaos+edition+compatible+with+legendary#p141 94

That is the link to the forum post, a developer (pmcc) confirms that Legendary is compatible with Chaos edition.

Ah, but he says it "should" be compatible, and then makes no mention of how this compatibility is achieved.

After all, the Normal Edition of Bloodbowl is also "compatible" with the LE - both version share the same chatroom, they just can't play with each other.

I remain cautious about it. Love the game, but Cyanide's lifetime track-record is not filling me with confidence.

potatoedoughnut
16-05-2012, 04:53 PM
It seems like the only game to even make reference to the fact that they're are other Daemons than Khorne and Nurgle was Warhammer online, guess Slaanesh just isn't kid friendly enough for them to use.

What? Tzeench and Slaanesh are all over all kinds of WH. Or do you just meed WHFB themed video games?

And yeah Chaos Dwarfs used to be a playable army in WHFB, never understood why they ignored them. They went the way of the stunties in 40k.

Dr_Mechano
16-05-2012, 04:57 PM
What? Tzeench and Slaanesh are all over all kinds of WH. Or do you just meed WHFB themed video games?

Yeah specifically videogames, Slaanesh and Tzeentch Daemons don't seem to feature a whole lot.

Heliocentric
16-05-2012, 06:37 PM
Slaanesh would probably suit when warhammer tries to break into the Japanese game industry.

NieA7
16-05-2012, 07:44 PM
And yeah Chaos Dwarfs used to be a playable army in WHFB, never understood why they ignored them. They went the way of the stunties in 40k.

15 years later and I'm still bitter about my Epic scale Squat army :\

ChainsawHands
26-06-2012, 01:47 PM
Pricing announced: http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1410#p17667



We are happy to inform that all owners of Blood Bowl will be able to purchase Blood Bowl: Chaos Edition for about €10,00! (exact price is still being debated, but this number is pretty accurate)

This price is a special offer for all players who already have one of the previous editions of the game such as Blood Bowl, Legendary Edition or Dark Elves Edition.

For those who don’t already have the game and want the full experience, Blood Bowl: Chaos Edition will be sold around €30. Pass the message along to your friends so they join the community in September 2012!

At that price I'll be getting it, I think.

Heliocentric
26-06-2012, 01:58 PM
Pricing announced: http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1410#p17667



At that price I'll be getting it, I think.Yeah, its no DLC price point, but its healthy. Now I just need to get another copy of Bloodbowl for next to nothing so I can get the upgrade twice.

Here's a problem though, I'm completely unwilling to buy through the Cyanide stores without activation on Origin, Steam or Desura, I don't trust them to keep my downloads.

President Weasel
26-06-2012, 02:15 PM
Pricing announced: http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1410#p17667
At that price I'll be getting it, I think.

Yeah, that's pretty reasonable; 10 Euromoney to keep the servers running another year or two is pretty reasonable, and if they're going to throw in another race I'll take it.

I remain unconvinced by this unplaytested, potentially unbalanced new race, however, and I am strongly against letting people play it in RPS competitions until we know if it's balanced or not.

apricotsoup
26-06-2012, 02:21 PM
Aye, not too bad on price but the last I heard galak and co still hadn't seen the new team.

The entire idea of forcing a new team in seems bad to me anyways when there's so many missing features. Not that I've really played with RPS peeps anyways :]

Squiz
26-06-2012, 02:31 PM
And then there is still the question if the CE is fully compatible with the LE.

apricotsoup
26-06-2012, 02:32 PM
And then there is still the question if the CE is fully compatible with the LE.

Judging by past performances I'd guess that it'll be a completely separate entity, so no compatibility.

Heliocentric
26-06-2012, 02:32 PM
Yeah, I'll boycott any new races, ffs, they haven't even balanced lizards ^_^
(6 St4 players with no neg traits?, mv8 stunties who are 1 AG boost from "2+"ING every dodge regardless of tacklezones and a big guy who has a marking skill, mv6, av9+thick skull and mighty blow.

I'd be shocked if the new side was more OP.

ChainsawHands
26-06-2012, 02:33 PM
Yeah, I'd be in favour of banning Khorne at least for the first couple of seasons. If it's compatible with LE then I vote we let anyone who buys CE play the other new teams. If it's not then it gets more complicated; I don't know if a couple of new teams is worth splitting the divisions over.

Screwie
26-06-2012, 02:37 PM
I remain unconvinced by this unplaytested, potentially unbalanced new race, however, and I am strongly against letting people play it in RPS competitions until we know if it's balanced or not.

I'm pretty much against allowing it even after we find out how good or bad it is.

Still for that price I will be happy for access to the Underworld and Chaos Dwarf teams (and Dribblesnot, muahahaha).


EDIT:


Yeah, I'll boycott any new races, ffs, they haven't even balanced lizards ^_^
(6 St4 players with no neg traits?, mv8 stunties who are 1 AG boost from "2+"ING every dodge regardless of tacklezones and a big guy who has a marking skill, mv6, av9+thick skull and mighty blow.

I'd be shocked if the new side was more OP.

Haha yeah, lizards are OP. Actually they are one of the very few teams whose players don't fit the pricing formula (the saurus and krox are all 10k cheaper than their stats/skills say they should be), plus having 6 ST4 blockers on a side is unprecedented.... *ahem*

You know who else is OP? The undead. 40k linemen that aren't stunties and have General skill access, and Regen?? What hax. :P

Gorm
26-06-2012, 04:44 PM
Are you talking about the lightning fast zombies or the usain bolt fast skeles?

Heliocentric
26-06-2012, 07:10 PM
You know who else is OP? The undead. 40k linemen that aren't stunties and have General skill access, and Regen?? What hax. :P
You can't simply identify one component of a team and call the team overpowered.

Zombies are great and I'd happily take half a dozen of them on any team. But they are not the complete picture. Is a ghoul as good as a high elf lineman? Add to that the lack of apothecary access and these key players establish there place in the bigger picture.

Super mortal SPP hogs and relentless but incapable linemen.

In other news, straw man is flammable.

LowKey
26-06-2012, 07:33 PM
Can we say strongest player in the game with no negatraits?

Screwie
26-06-2012, 09:07 PM
*sigh* I would hope the smiley implied sufficiently I was joking but yes, it was quite flammable bait. Sorry.

Heliocentric
26-06-2012, 09:29 PM
Can we say strongest player in the game with no negatraits?
I'd call MV3 a negative.

I'm not saying Undead are shit btw, but the I wonder if the "Bloodbowl isn't meant to be balanced" crowd will still complain about the balance of the new side, even if they are less OP then for example Lizards.

Prester John
26-06-2012, 09:31 PM
15 years later and I'm still bitter about my Epic scale Squat army :\

I'm still bitter about GW ruining White Dwarf Magazine when they turned it into a GW Advertising Pamphlet. Thats over 20 years! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Heliocentric
26-06-2012, 09:39 PM
I'm still bitter about GW ruining White Dwarf Magazine when they turned it into a GW Advertising Pamphlet. Thats over 20 years! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

To be fair, isn't that all it ever was? The Games Workshop games I truly loved didn't sell enough little men though, BB, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, Inquisitor.

NieA7
26-06-2012, 09:41 PM
Undead are one of the weird middle ground teams really. Humans are the middle of the middle, then Necro, then Undead as bashy middle, Lizardmen as xtreme middle middle and skaven as runny middle. Makes it difficult to compare them to proper bash/agility teams. My concern with the new Khorne team is that it'll just be another pure bash side, which the game doesn't really need (if anything another hybrid or agility side would even things out a bit more). 10 euro's is a good price though, provided it's compatible with LE I'll happily pick it up at that price.


I'm still bitter about GW ruining White Dwarf Magazine when they turned it into a GW Advertising Pamphlet. Thats over 20 years! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

My wife got me a subscription to White Dwarf as a Christmas present, to be fair even though it's quite adverty I still find it a nice read of a lazy evening.


To be fair, isn't that all it ever was? The Games Workshop games I truly loved didn't sell enough little men though, BB, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, Inquisitor.

I would love an online Necromunda, can't believe it hasn't happened yet. All the team building and tactics of BB played out in three dimensions, with none of the stupid ball getting in the way.

Prester John
26-06-2012, 09:54 PM
To be fair, isn't that all it ever was? The Games Workshop games I truly loved didn't sell enough little men though, BB, Necromunda, GorkaMorka, Inquisitor.

no no no no no

It was a general rpg magazine until mid/late 80's and did some pretty good stuff.

Heliocentric
26-06-2012, 10:01 PM
no no no no no

It was a general rpg magazine until mid/late 80's and did some pretty good stuff.Oh, I was born around the time it went shit, same with music apparently.

Prester John
26-06-2012, 10:21 PM
Oh, I was born around the time it went shit, same with music apparently.

So you're to blame for ruining the 80's ! Nostalgia ain't what it used to be you know...

ntw
27-06-2012, 01:29 AM
I'm still bitter about GW ruining White Dwarf Magazine when they turned it into a GW Advertising Pamphlet. Thats over 20 years! grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Early WD was an excellent mag with many interesting articles on varied games and systems. But as you say, when it turned into a GW catalogue it became utter shite.

Thrud FTW!

President Weasel
27-06-2012, 08:56 AM
Lizards aren't OP, you're confused because Jiiim plays them, and Jiiim definitely is OP.

ChainsawHands
27-06-2012, 10:04 AM
Yes. Nerf Jiiiiim!

apricotsoup
27-06-2012, 10:13 AM
I would also love an online necromunda, or to be more precise a game in a similar vein to necromunda.

I loved necro but it used hand me down rules and as a result was overcomplicated in some areas, in need of more detail in others and awful when it came to balance. Some fan projects have massively cleared things up but I'd generally prefer to see a system more similar to say malifaux but with the extra team building and territory management excitement.

Screwie
27-06-2012, 11:20 AM
Necromunda occupied my teenage years. We ran a homebrewed miniature-based RPG-ish-version of the game where each player controlled a single guy instead of a whole gang and one of us (usually me) played the GM. We incorporated the Gorkamorka vehicle rules for lulz and explosions (biker gangs sound cool in principle, but on those thin walkways...), and I wrote half a bestiary full of weirder creatures to infest the Underhive. It was madness but amazing fun.

I still love the Necromunda setting to this day, and I would love to see a video game version of it (assuming team building and territory management are mandatory inclusions).

Heliocentric
27-06-2012, 12:19 PM
I still love the Necromunda setting to this day, and I would love to see a video game version of it (assuming team building and territory management are mandatory inclusions).

I'm thinking X-Com with bloodbowl style skirmishes 1 vs 1(any third parties would have the option of delivering general instructions for the AI to carry out of the players behalf "Take out anyone in the open but stay in cover", "run away from the battle"), but not in a rotary every faces everyone sense, your strategic choice would determine your clashes.

Screwie
27-06-2012, 12:54 PM
An X-Com style interface and overview would be cool, yeah. If it's turn-based it can be loyal to the Necromunda rules - and if it is loyal to the rules, skirmishes of larger than two gangs would also be quite possible.

potatoedoughnut
27-06-2012, 05:25 PM
Yes. Nerf Jiiiiim!

Yes please!

Jiiiiim
27-06-2012, 06:12 PM
Now I know how Napoleon felt

LowKey
27-06-2012, 07:01 PM
French? un deux/

potatoedoughnut
27-06-2012, 07:15 PM
Now I know how Napoleon felt

We need some Russian players

grinn
29-06-2012, 12:55 AM
Definitely against allowing daemon teams into the RPS league for a few editions (or at least until we've had a chance to thoroughly playtest them internally)

Everblue
14-08-2012, 04:29 PM
I can't watch this at work. Apparently it's a video of the CE gameplay. Can someone look at it please?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5kXQJA3NtU8&feature=share

ChainsawHands
14-08-2012, 04:34 PM
It's not gameplay, it's just one of their intro movies.

Screwie
14-08-2012, 04:40 PM
It's a CG trailer of a BB match in the style of their older trailers featuring two teams at a time - this time Chaos Dwarfs and Khorne bollocks.

Synopsis: Hobgoblin crams a ball into a dwarf's blunderbuss, who then fires it high for a bull centaur to 'go long' for. Except it's intercepted by a flying bloodthirster who lands and advances with some bloodletters in support. That's all.

I suppose it confirms bloodletters and bloodthirster for the Khorne side, as well as the classic giant hats for the chaos dwarfs (yay!). Could be that Zzharg Madeye (the blunderbuss) is our second star player for the expansion?

Zoraster
14-08-2012, 05:12 PM
Yup, that has to be Zzharg and Bomber confirmed as two, and we still assume the third new star will be a made up one for Khorne. Interesting to note Cyanide do seem to have listened to the moans about them mainly including the costly stars no one uses... just a shame they've now opted to add cheap stars no one uses :) Everyone seemed to assume Hthark was a lock for CD star.

Everblue
14-08-2012, 05:15 PM
Thanks!

Does the bloodthirster look OP?

Squiz
14-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Thanks!

Does the bloodthirster look OP?Not at all. Which is a bit of a letdown considering they are the monster people associate with Warhammer Chaos.

President Weasel
14-08-2012, 05:58 PM
The face on the model looks like a sad bulldog from a cartoon. The rules for the bloodthirster and bloodletters look... wierd. No way to know whether they're OP or indeed Tier 2 until some leagues who aren't us do some playtesting- and no way we should put the new team in any leagues until we know.

Screwie
14-08-2012, 06:20 PM
The roster has been revealed? Anyone got a link?

Alistair Hutton
15-08-2012, 11:16 AM
Not that I'm aware of, there's a couple of Khorne lists from back from 4th edition floating around but they are horrible.

Everblue
15-08-2012, 11:34 AM
I checked the official forums yesterday and there was nothing listed.

Alistair Hutton
20-08-2012, 10:34 AM
My hopes for the Khorne list have been raised as I learn that it was Galak Starscrapper himself who put together the list. It hasn't received the widespread playtesting the other lists have had but it's come from a good(non-cyanide) place.

Everblue
29-08-2012, 01:29 PM
http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1258&p=19871#p19847

Everblue
04-09-2012, 09:11 AM
Latest news re compatibility from Freki:

"Legendary and Chaos will be compatible. It means that a Legendary player will be able to play with a Chaos player but only with a Legendary team. He will see the new races but won't be able to choose a Chaos Dwarfs team.

Concerning your team, you should be able play with your team on Chaos edition, so you won't have to restart a new team if you don't want."

http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1258&start=80

Heliocentric
04-09-2012, 09:53 AM
The DoW method, excellent move cyanide. If they can keep doing that playing each title will serve as an advert for the others, add in race and pitch dlc.

They make money, we get supported. Win-win.

Kajo
04-09-2012, 11:16 AM
The face on the model looks like a sad bulldog from a cartoon. The rules for the bloodthirster and bloodletters look... wierd. No way to know whether they're OP or indeed Tier 2 until some leagues who aren't us do some playtesting- and no way we should put the new team in any leagues until we know.

Out of curiosity: what's the rules for them?

Everblue
04-09-2012, 11:25 AM
Not known yet afaik.

Everblue
04-09-2012, 03:15 PM
Ooooh - even more

http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&p=20091&sid=8c2be17df854f140e272d2231d03917e#p20091

Everblue
23-09-2012, 10:14 PM
From another forum:

Ok a mate of mine is at Games Day and has just played a game with the Khorne Roster...

Bloodthirster

6 5 1 9 Claw, Frenzy, Wild Animal, Regeneration, Jugg (He thinks!)

Pitfighters

6 3 3 8 Frenzy

Bloodletters or Heralds

6 3 3 8 Frenzy, Horns

He stresses that the team he was using was 1300 TV and the Heralds had Jugg but he doesn't know if they start with it lol

No mutation access for the team and he says there's another positional but he's not text it me yet! He does however say they're a pain in the arse to play with

Zoraster
23-09-2012, 10:45 PM
Not enough information to make any meaningful assessment but already looks broken. No mutations access (on a chaos team? And to think they allegedly barred Cyanide from including the Slann for fluff reasons) suggests we can take it as read that there is mass strength access. Basically Norse with an extra point of armour instead of Block. If they have strength access across the board the team will be sick once you’ve got half a dozen or so with a couple of skills. Nightmare for rookie coaches to play mind, and tough for everyone early on. Frenzy without a blocking skill requires careful management.

Proves what plenty of folk said upfront though. The Norse roster already fills the natural gap for Khorne and is one of the best balanced rosters in the game so why on earth did they opt for Khorne out of all the chaos fluff options?

Oh and a big guy with a blocking skill, claw, regen and a really mild negatrait? That better be part of the extra skills rather than starting roster or we are talking broken beyond belief :) I’m sure that isn’t on the starting roster though. Not even Cyanide could be that stupid... could they?

Jiiiiim
23-09-2012, 10:50 PM
Nearly every player having frenzy does strike me as the most ridiculous thing there, especially if they have that strength access to get the guard and block that'll make it super-unpleasant.

Everblue
23-09-2012, 10:50 PM
Aren't chaos just norse with an extra point of armour and strength access across the board?

But yes, too early to say anything definite.

Zoraster
24-09-2012, 02:15 AM
Aren't chaos just norse with an extra point of armour and strength access across the board?


Far from it. There is a reason Chaos are powder-puff until they are giving up a crippling amount of inducements to optimally built opponents while Norse are the most destructive team in the game bar none. The skills and speed gap is very significant.

Damage multiplying skills out the gate are huge hence the teams with them have equally huge negatives to maintain balance, be it spammed AV7 or spammed AG2/MV4. This alleged Khorne roster has a short term weakness that will become a strength assuming GS access. Once they reach the critical mass of blocking skills and guard I don’t see anything to keep them in check. They are not below average in any stat. So far they have no weakness at all (coach positional nous apart) once they have the skills to unlock frenzy traps.

Alistair Hutton
24-09-2012, 08:53 AM
Not enough information to make any meaningful assessment but already looks broken. No mutations access (on a chaos team? And to think they allegedly barred Cyanide from including the Slann for fluff reasons) suggests we can take it as read that there is mass strength access. Basically Norse with an extra point of armour instead of Block. If they have strength access across the board the team will be sick once you’ve got half a dozen or so with a couple of skills. Nightmare for rookie coaches to play mind, and tough for everyone early on. Frenzy without a blocking skill requires careful management.

Proves what plenty of folk said upfront though. The Norse roster already fills the natural gap for Khorne and is one of the best balanced rosters in the game so why on earth did they opt for Khorne out of all the chaos fluff options?

Oh and a big guy with a blocking skill, claw, regen and a really mild negatrait? That better be part of the extra skills rather than starting roster or we are talking broken beyond belief :) I’m sure that isn’t on the starting roster though. Not even Cyanide could be that stupid... could they?

This is a list straight from Galak without Cyanide fucking with it so it has been play tested by people who know the game - just no where near as much as the other LRB6 rosters. As a result I don't think we can assume strength across the board (I mean I assume it would be strength across the board but maybe there's a lack of general to "balance" that out) - there's just not enough info (even assuming that what we have is accurate) there to work out how they'll play at all.

Zoraster
24-09-2012, 09:35 AM
Anyone who has played an all frenzy themed Norse side in high level competition has enough info to see how dangerous that roster would be with GS access and how appalling it will be without G. If it is accurate it is broken one way or t'other.

Tom has done a lot for BB without a doubt but he is far from infallible (totally breaking flings is an obvious case in point) and unless you are privy to new information we have no idea how much influence he has actually had anyway. However I find it hard to believe he wouldn’t see the above as broken or fit only for the likes of MBBL2.

Screwie
24-09-2012, 09:35 AM
It could have been worse. Frenzy is a lousy starting skill without blocking skills to back it up (unfortunately it flips right round to very good as soon as you get Block).

The bloodthirster, in the form described above, is the most worrisome. It has a lot of block functionality out of the gate, plus regen, plus what I think is an uncharacterisitc and undeserved TV-lowering AG of 1.

Mostly it's as disappointingly predictable as I thought it would be. Khorne is boring.

Everblue
24-09-2012, 09:44 AM
You'd have thought they'd have gone for Slaanesh, given the potential teenage boy audience.

Gorm
24-09-2012, 09:46 AM
Slaanesh would be just dark elves with less lineelfs though.

Zoraster
24-09-2012, 09:50 AM
The bloodthirster, in the form described above, is the most worrisome. It has a lot of block functionality out of the gate, plus regen, plus what I think is an uncharacterisitc and undeserved TV-lowering AG of 1.

There is no way that ‘thirster can be right. Juggs has to be an added skill as it is already a snow troll with an extra point of armour and movement instead of disturbing presence. Not even Cyanide would be that daft, and yes I have been watching their ongoing train wreck with DB rules.

Everblue
24-09-2012, 10:15 AM
There is no way that ‘thirster can be right. Juggs has to be an added skill as it is already a snow troll with an extra point of armour and movement instead of disturbing presence. Not even Cyanide would be that daft, and yes I have been watching their ongoing train wreck with DB rules.

Well it's only a rumour, and he did say it's a 1300TV team, so hopefully that's the case.

Screwie
24-09-2012, 10:18 AM
Slaanesh would be just dark elves with less lineelfs though.

And more Claw. And maybe more Disturbing Presence than a Nurgle team...


There is no way that ‘thirster can be right. Juggs has to be an added skill as it is already a snow troll with an extra point of armour and movement instead of disturbing presence. Not even Cyanide would be that daft, and yes I have been watching their ongoing train wreck with DB rules.

Yes, and also I really hope it doesn't have regen - wasn't that supposed to be the bloodletters' thing?

The DB rules annoy me so much. When the orc/goblin/troll team came out and they couldn't even get the troll part right, it felt like there was no planning at all. (Also the unsteady ground rule still isn't working 100% as it should, which gives a huge advantage to bash teams.)

EDIT: Also shouldn't the bloodthirster have Horns?? On account of it having horns?

Heliocentric
24-09-2012, 12:13 PM
Tzeentch bloodbowl team would be the best Bloodbowl team. It would be allowed to take up to 2 of the opponent players as inducements paying double the players value but snatching them from his opponent temporarily(additionally they will be loners for the match). The actual players would be:
rather dull for linemen called Followers(0-12) (mv6, st3,ag3,av7,access G-APSM),
but the specialists would include with
Disc(0-2) (mv8,St4, Ag4, av8,leap, long legs, no hands AS-G(no P or M access so no leader, G access is the only thing on doubles)
a few Acolytes(0-4) (mv5/6,ST3,AG3,av7 hypnosis(not overly effective at ag3), fend G-APSM)
Blue horrors(0-4) (stunty, st2, ag3,Dodge GA-PSM)

But key is the face they can induce opponents players. Steal a gutter runner and flank him with a pair of discs, maybe a star thrower, they'll need to hit him to deny you using him.

Screwie
24-09-2012, 12:45 PM
I like the discs as no-handed super blitzers idea.

I saw a Tzeentch team idea somewhere that had flamers (using the Bombardier skill) - I think that was the FUMMBL Stunty Leeg.

Also a single player content mod for the Cyanida game included a Tzeentch side which featured Right Stuff and Throw Team Mate on every player. A bit mad.

I'd like to see the horror-splitting theme handled in some way, preferably not as boring Regen either - give the team a reverse undead/Nurgle recruitment rule whereby your team roster is given a free pair of blue horrors (stunty runners/catchers) whenever one of your own pink horrors (linemen) is killed.

Heliocentric
24-09-2012, 01:06 PM
a free pair of blue horrors (stunty runners/catchers) whenever one of your own pink horrors (linemen) is killed.

Yes, but make them appear during the match and be permanent. That is rather elegant.

Everblue
24-09-2012, 02:49 PM
Current rumour (I can stop posting these if you like) is that the Khorne roster will be released officially later today...

Zoraster
24-09-2012, 03:09 PM
Read it and weep

- Pit Fighter, Quantity 0-16, 60k, MA 6, ST 3, AG 3, AV 8, Skills: Frenzy, Normal GP, Double AS
- Bloodletter Daemon, Quantity 0-4, 80k, MA 6, ST 3, AG 3, AV 7, Skills: Horns, Juggernaut, Regeneration, Normal GAS, Double P
- Khorne Herald, Quantity 0-2, 90k, MA 6, ST 3, AG 3, AV 8, Skills: Frenzy, Horns, Juggernaut, Normal GS, Double AP
- Bloodthirster, Quantity 0-1, 180k, MA 6, ST 5, AG 1, AV 9, Skills: Loner, Wild Animal, Claw, Frenzy, Horns, Juggernaut, Regeneration, Normal S, Double GAP
- Reroll : 70k
- Apoth: yes

Screwie
24-09-2012, 03:20 PM
Just came here to post exactly that.

It's ridiculously costly for a non-elf team, plus expensive TRRs too.
As feared, in making the bloodthirster the required level of 'awesome' they've priced it out of the market - that thing is a trap.
GAS normal access on a ST 3 (+Horns) player without a handicap (hell, with Regen!), and you can have 4 of them???
Pit fighters get normal Passing access!

Everblue
24-09-2012, 03:21 PM
Christ. Bloodletters look amazing.

ChainsawHands
24-09-2012, 03:22 PM
Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha no.

Everblue
24-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Passing access on the pitfields must be for leader, yes?

Heliocentric
24-09-2012, 04:09 PM
I like my chaos team better.

Alistair Hutton
24-09-2012, 05:00 PM
My head is struggling to get round what this team does.

potatoedoughnut
24-09-2012, 05:50 PM
Wow that looks absurd. NP access on linemen is pretty good.

The bloodletters are just ridiculous. GAP on normals with no downsides (st/ag2 or negatrait?). They're AV7, but they have regen, so not that big a deal.

The heralds start with frenzy/horns/jugg which is a pretty amazing combo out of the box.

The bloodthirster is good but expensive and you're better blitzing with the heralds.

I'm surprised there is no M access, but I guess they don't want the team full of CPOMB? Even though it's khorne and that's what they're all about.

Squiz
24-09-2012, 05:58 PM
The bloodletters are just ridiculous. GAP on normals with no downsides (st/ag2 or negatrait?). They're AV7, but they have regen, so not that big a deal.Actually, it's GAS, but that doesn't make it any better, does it.

Jiiiiim
24-09-2012, 06:45 PM
Heeheehee, apoth and big chunk of regen, and not terrible armour. No mutations, at least, frenzy and claw would be even more absurd.

NieA7
24-09-2012, 07:27 PM
I like that they've made a roster largely differentiated on skills rather than stats. Skills access and skills are all over the place though, fluff wise why on earth would Bloodletters get agility access but not frenzy when everything else has it, and passing on the linemen? A Juggernaut would've been a more interesting big guy than the Bloodthirster too. Not convinced it's massivly OP, at least to begin with (the Bloodthirster is incredible but so expensive it's practically prohibitive, leaving you with a tougher Norse team without the extra strength and block), but I'm pretty terrible at reading rosters - have to wait for some wiser heads to get lots of games in and report.

Everblue
24-09-2012, 09:22 PM
So, what do we think? Do we give them a run in the Open and see how they get on? I would suggest not the Divisions as yet.

potatoedoughnut
24-09-2012, 09:38 PM
Actually, it's GAS, but that doesn't make it any better, does it.

Erp yeah meant GAS. Either way it doesn't make sense for a bloodletter.


So, what do we think? Do we give them a run in the Open and see how they get on? I would suggest not the Divisions as yet.

I would say if people want to muck about with them in challenge that's fine, but I'd say keep them out of the "official" leagues (Open & DoD) until they've been played more.

Screwie
03-10-2012, 10:26 AM
Underworld Team (http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1687) roster has been presented.

It's just as it appears in the tabletop rules, meaning (with Dribblesnot being added to the game) the team only has two star players to choose from, one Secret Weapon and one Morg! I didn't realise that before, I thought Scrappa or Ripper were available too but apparently not.

The team still looks fun to play regardless.

Everblue
03-10-2012, 10:28 AM
The release date is supposed to be 11th October http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1410&p=21260#p21258

Is the decision for the Khorne roster that we wait and see how it goes for balance in other leagues? I am probably going to play Khorne in a private league starting at the beginning of November so might be able to give you an opinion. Can a few of us try them out in MM too?

Are we otherwise going to allow Chaos Dwarves and Underworld into the next season of the Divisions?

Screwie
03-10-2012, 10:41 AM
I've no problem with Chaos Dwarfs or Underworld, not only have those teams been around a long while they are unique and interesting to play and play against.

The Khorne team looks very problematic to me, mostly the Pit Fighter and Bloodletter skill access (especially for their price). Also Khorne is boring and sucks. I may not be the most impartial judge here.

The final decision rests with the league owners and I will tolerate whatever decision they make. I can however categorically say the Khorne team will never make an appearance in the Gauntlin Goblet league. Not on my watch! :P

ChainsawHands
03-10-2012, 11:00 AM
Yeah, the two real teams I'm fine with, Khorne I don't think we should allow (unless after extensive playtesting they turn out to be fine, I suppose).

NieA7
03-10-2012, 11:30 AM
Definitely let Chaos Dwarf and Underworld in, assuming there's full cross compatibility with Legendary Edition. Honestly I wouldn't have too many problems with the Khorne team, they look quite underpowered to me. Not especially interested in playing them, but what would Official RPS Playtesting For Admission To Leagues® look like?

ChainsawHands
03-10-2012, 11:34 AM
Not especially interested in playing them, but what would Official RPS Playtesting For Admission To Leagues® look like?Wait for a bit and see what people think, I'd imagine.

NieA7
03-10-2012, 12:22 PM
Wait for a bit and see what people think, I'd imagine.

How disappointing, I was imagining something with secret LANs, elite testers hiding behind pseudonyms, strict silence on pain of death...

Everblue
03-10-2012, 12:28 PM
I thought Zoraster's concerns were at high TV, so even if we did let them into the leagues there'd be an issue for a while.

ChainsawHands
03-10-2012, 12:37 PM
How disappointing, I was imagining something with secret LANs, elite testers hiding behind pseudonyms, strict silence on pain of death...If hypothetically there were such things, we'd have to be a pretty poor conspiracy to tell you about them just because you asked...

NieA7
03-10-2012, 02:52 PM
If hypothetically there were such things, we'd have to be a pretty poor conspiracy to tell you about them just because you asked...

Ohmygosh :o

sketchseven
03-10-2012, 04:04 PM
I've missed quite a large chunk of this discussion - but are people without Chaos Ed. still going to be able to play teams that are in Chaos Ed. without having to buy it?

NieA7
03-10-2012, 04:16 PM
That's what Cyanide have said, but nobody quite believes them without seeing it for themselves. Everblue dug out a quote earlier on:

"Legendary and Chaos will be compatible. It means that a Legendary player will be able to play with a Chaos player but only with a Legendary team. He will see the new races but won't be able to choose a Chaos Dwarfs team.

Concerning your team, you should be able play with your team on Chaos edition, so you won't have to restart a new team if you don't want."

http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=1258&start=80

Corkir
03-10-2012, 04:21 PM
The sudden request for testers for this weekend to see if compatibility actually works isn't exactly comforting either.

20phoenix
03-10-2012, 06:20 PM
I genuinely think Khorne will be fine. Yes, 7 players have immediate strength access but only one of them is above ST 3 and 4 of them are AV 7 so you wouldnt want them in the middle of a scrap anyway. They're not fast enough to keep up with elves and not strong enough to go toe to toe with bash putting them nicely in the middle. Positioning will be tricky due to all the frenzy and with only 4 players have easy agility access repositioning won't be easy.

El Cubo
04-10-2012, 09:52 PM
Preorder available.
http://bloodbowl-game.com/index.php?rub=shop

Squiz
05-10-2012, 09:20 AM
Preorder available. http://bloodbowl-game.com/index.php?rub=shopThe cover art of that box is terrible.

Heliocentric
05-10-2012, 10:21 AM
The cover art of that box is terrible.

I dunno, I think it accurately represents how badly thought out the Khorne are.

Screwie
05-10-2012, 10:26 AM
I dunno, I think it accurately represents how badly thought out the Khorne are.

Haha, nice one. :)

Yeah I pre-ordered it as soon as it appeared. I do want to play the other two teams and use Dribblesnot, and £8 is not too bad a price for that.

(I just hope they remembered to add Dribblesnot to to the Goblin, Ogre and Orc lists too.)

LowKey
05-10-2012, 10:47 AM
I actually rather like it, although the bloodthirster looks very sad, ill pick it up i think for that price i think

potatoedoughnut
05-10-2012, 04:54 PM
I like that they call it the "old player" offer.

Also it says you can upgrade with an original or Delf key; does this also upgrade you to legendary?

Janek
05-10-2012, 05:05 PM
Do we have any idea if it's backwards compatible with LE yet? Haven't really been paying attention. Will probably get it if so, if only so they don't split the playerbase.

Edit: To answer my own question, a little digging on the forum reveals a cryptic comment about beta testing compatability with LE. Hmm!

El Cubo
05-10-2012, 06:23 PM
Also it says you can upgrade with an original or Delf key; does this also upgrade you to legendary?

Among other things the edition's feature list states 23 races, so I think yes.

Janek
10-10-2012, 06:45 PM
So I have my copy. Khorne roster:

0-16 Pit Fighter Cultist 6338 Frenzy 60k GP (AS)
0-2 Khorne Herald 6338 Horns Juggernaut Frenzy 90k GS (AP)
0-4 Bloodletter Daemon 6337 Horns Juggernaut Regeneration 80k GAS (P)
0-1 Bloodthirster 6519 Horns Juggernaut Frenzy Claw Loner Wild Animal Regeneration 180k S (GAP)

BROKEN.

Janek
10-10-2012, 08:01 PM
Confirming that you can just log into Chaos Edition with your LE account and all your teams will still be there. Whether it actually works is a different matter. Shall keep LE installed for now just in case.

LowKey
10-10-2012, 08:14 PM
are you from the future? tell me more tales time traveller

laneford
10-10-2012, 08:37 PM
Is there a list anywhere of which star players are in it? Seeing as I have no interest in Khorne or evil fucking bastard hatted dwarves.

Janek
10-10-2012, 09:35 PM
Goblins and Orcs (and Underworld) get Bomber Dribblesnot, although the latest LE patch might have added him to them for everyone. CDs get Zzharg Madeye. Far as I can tell they're the only two new ones.

Heliocentric
10-10-2012, 10:55 PM
So I have my copy. Khorne roster:

0-16 Pit Fighter Cultist 6338 Frenzy 60k GP (AS)
0-2 Khorne Herald 6338 Horns Juggernaut Frenzy 90k GS (AP)
0-4 Bloodletter Daemon 6337 Horns Juggernaut Regeneration 80k GAS (P)
0-1 Bloodthirster 6519 Horns Juggernaut Frenzy Claw Loner Wild Animal Regeneration 180k S (GAP)

BROKEN.

edit: Linemen with passing access? Ready yourself for my team "the Hail Mary's" with a full lineup of hail mary throwers.

misread... heh

ChainsawHands
11-10-2012, 12:24 AM
And diving catch on all 4 bloodletters?

Gorm
11-10-2012, 01:04 AM
They could have done a new negtrait on the bloodthirster. Something more like Really Stupid that makes him insubstantial when he looses hold on reality.

Squiz
11-10-2012, 08:12 AM
BROKEN.Care to elaborate? The opinions over at talkfantasyfootball.org seem to be mixed. Let's (edit: read: whoever buys the CE, I won't) give them a bit of a try before deciding on that maybe.

Link to TFF.orgs strategy discussion thread (you might need to register an account to be able to read the threads):
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=37123

Roster discussion thread:
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37116

Zoraster
11-10-2012, 08:46 AM
I expect you'll find the people who see the issues with them will be the people who've played Savage Orcs/all frenzy themed team extensively in the past so are very aware of how potent these teams can be and how the negatives of all frenzy applies an all important curb. 'Letters sans frenzy are a huge issue. Grab access and easy to deploy guard removes the curb. The one thing that will keep the team in check is the agility access will almost certainly lead lots of coaches into the trap of making 'letters playmakers rather than the support players that will transform this team.

Zoraster
11-10-2012, 08:55 AM
Oh, forgot to post what I came for: bit of intelligence for our multi-coach households. Apparently while removing the player keys when going all Steam Cyanide have neglected to put any new limit on coaches. Whether this will last beyond the short term is doubtful but right now one copy of CE can be used by multiple coaches with an existing LE account. Only one can use it at a time due to steam, but as you only need it when coaching Chaos Dwarf or Underworld (oh alright, and Khorne) this won't be an issue unless all 'owners' are running one of those teams in the same league or want to play one at the same time.

Doctor_Hellsturm
11-10-2012, 10:41 AM
Has anything at all been changed in CE apart from the three new teams? Any AI-improvements or something like that would be way to much to hope for I reckon?

Everblue
11-10-2012, 10:54 AM
No AI improvements. Some bugs have been fixed, there's a new pitch, a couple of new star players, and they are keeping the servers open for a bit longer...!

Squiz
11-10-2012, 11:03 AM
No AI improvements. Some bugs have been fixed, there's a new pitch, a couple of new star players, and they are keeping the servers open for a bit longer...!That last point to me is the best thing about the new edition. I hope that it will be possible to run private servers when Cyanide's Blood Bowl servers go to the big pitch in the sky.

Zoraster
11-10-2012, 11:13 AM
That last point to me is the best thing about the new edition. I hope that it will be possible to run private servers when Cyanide's Blood Bowl servers go to the big pitch in the sky.

Cyanide leagues run on OBBLM have long offered far more functionality and stars, teams etc. I've been playing in an off-server league for 18 months now and there are more such leagues springing up all the time. It has a slightly higher barrier of entry getting people used to downloading their roster and connecting via direct IP etc but it is smooth enough to ensure a future for many leagues post Cyanide if enough coaches transfer before the servers are finally shut down.

cyberpunkdreams
11-10-2012, 03:58 PM
Cyanide leagues run on OBBLM have long offered far more functionality and stars, teams etc. I've been playing in an off-server league for 18 months now and there are more such leagues springing up all the time. It has a slightly higher barrier of entry getting people used to downloading their roster and connecting via direct IP etc but it is smooth enough to ensure a future for many leagues post Cyanide if enough coaches transfer before the servers are finally shut down.

I wasn't aware of it. If or when the time comes, I can easily run OBBLM on one of my servers for RPS. That said, is there a real risk of the servers going down? Have specific things being said? It's just that a lot of companies keep servers for games running for years and years, even if the player base has dwindled to almost nada.

Squiz
11-10-2012, 04:56 PM
I wasn't aware of it. If or when the time comes, I can easily run OBBLM on one of my servers for RPS. That said, is there a real risk of the servers going down? Have specific things being said? It's just that a lot of companies keep servers for games running for years and years, even if the player base has dwindled to almost nada.However, there are also famous examples for the opposite. I think it depends on the ongoing maintenance costs and complexity of the game at hand. I'll definitely check out OBBLM. And as a last line of defence, there will (most likely) always be FUMBBL.

boots468
11-10-2012, 05:14 PM
Chaos Edition is out on steam now. Seems Ok so far, but it hasn't imported the Automatic or Ask skill choices in your user options or anything nice and helpful like that :-)

cyberpunkdreams
11-10-2012, 06:11 PM
However, there are also famous examples for the opposite. I think it depends on the ongoing maintenance costs and complexity of the game at hand. I'll definitely check out OBBLM. And as a last line of defence, there will (most likely) always be FUMBBL.

For sure. In the case of BB, it's pretty simple. The servers don't run the games themselves (one of the two players' machines acts as the game server), so all they are doing is storing user account, match history, team and league information, plus setting up the matches themselves. You don't need a heavy spec for that.

Janek
11-10-2012, 06:40 PM
Care to elaborate? The opinions over at talkfantasyfootball.org seem to be mixed. Let's (edit: read: whoever buys the CE, I won't) give them a bit of a try before deciding on that maybe.

Link to TFF.orgs strategy discussion thread (you might need to register an account to be able to read the threads):
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=37123

Roster discussion thread:
http://www.talkfantasyfootball.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=37116

I suppose they're not as bad as I first thought, though IMO they're a long way from well-designed. Can't be bothered to dig out my old TBB login, buuuut:

- Big pile of frenzy is very dangerous, although offset slightly by being somewhat erratic (particularly early on)
- Bloodthirster is stupidly effective, even for that price - effectively you have a minotaur with claw and juggernaut and +AV and regeneration.
- GAS access on the Daemons is fairly unprecedented - the only other players with skill access that good are vampires, who have bloodlust to limit them a bit. Regen is the cherry on the cake (I'd maybe be more content if they were sort of vulnerable utility players, like ghouls)
- Seven lots of strength access is quite a lot. Not gamebreaking but it all adds up.
- Passing access on linemen is daft. I can see matchmaking throwing out a few minmaxed team with no rerolls and a bunch of leader cultists. Getting rerolls for 20k of TV will help offset some of the fairly expensive players.

Basically I don't think they'd be too bad with a slight nerf. I'd maybe do the following:

- Take Juggernaut away from the Bloodthirster, perhaps drop the price a little to compensate.
- Take Regen away from the Daemons
- Take passing access away from the Cultists. Possibly give them a maximum of 2, too.

That should hopefully make them good without being overwhelming.

mrpier
11-10-2012, 07:13 PM
You can only have one leader reroll in each half no matter how many of your players have the skill though, so no rerolls would be quite risky.

Dog Pants
11-10-2012, 07:29 PM
I'm assuming BBCE is incompatible with BBLE, since that's been the case for every other edition. But before I go off speculating elsewhere can anyone confirm that it's correct?

Janek
11-10-2012, 07:47 PM
You can only have one leader reroll in each half no matter how many of your players have the skill though, so no rerolls would be quite risky.

Huh. How have I gone this long without noticing that?

Dog Pants: The latest BBLE patch makes them entirely compatible - if you don't have BBCE, you can play against but not as the new teams.

NieA7
11-10-2012, 08:40 PM
- GAS access on the Daemons is fairly unprecedented - the only other players with skill access that good are vampires, who have bloodlust to limit them a bit. Regen is the cherry on the cake (I'd maybe be more content if they were sort of vulnerable utility players, like ghouls)

Slann blitzers have GAS access in addition to vamps so it's not completely unprecedented, just very rare. In unrelated news I would happily pay double if they replaced Khorne with Slann :\

The Brain
11-10-2012, 08:41 PM
If you have Chaos edition can you still play as all the old teams? I bought it to support cyanide and make sure they keep patching the game (a double edged sword, I know). So does that mean I can just have Chaos edition installed and get rid of LE edition? I know I could probably find out by downloading and seeing but I'm trying to save some time.

mrpier
11-10-2012, 08:55 PM
Yeah, you can play all the old teams as well.

The Brain
11-10-2012, 09:46 PM
Sweet. I'll start downloading now then.

20phoenix
11-10-2012, 11:55 PM
First game with the new Khorne roster and what should have been a 3-0 win ended up 1-1. Turned him over in turn 2 of his own drive and stalled out the half before he managed to complete risky dodges and GFIs with no rerolls and get a marker next to the carrier who of course failed the one roll he had to make. Scored 4 turns into my own drive. He was down to 6 by this point and I had him clumped up in a ball except for the carrier with only successions of 3+'s getting him out. He made all this and a double GFI and a 5+ pass and catch all without reroll to leave me a GFI to get a marker and a 3+ dodge with 2 GFIs to make the blitz WITH reroll. I made it as far as the block and rolled skull both down.

Result aside I quite like the team. You have to plan your turn and blocks very carefully early on as with 2 rerolls and no blocking skills you can easily find yourself in trouble. Think I managed to surf a total of 4 players in the game which was pretty good. The BT model is brilliant but its also the prime suspect for horrendous lag I suffered through the game.

President Weasel
12-10-2012, 12:20 AM
You weren't lagging at all when your humies beat my Chaos Dorfs so convincingly earlier on, although that was you using Legendary Edition still.

Everblue
12-10-2012, 12:45 AM
Think that was me, rather than 'phoenix...

20phoenix
12-10-2012, 06:29 PM
Definitely Everblue's Humans. I have never and will never play humies - way too bland for my liking. Prancing elves/slippery rats/killing machines please!!

DarkFenix
13-10-2012, 01:22 PM
Been toying around with the various new players in CE, Khorne don't strike me as too bad. 180k is a hell of a price for a player; better than the Minotaur, but on the other hand no mutation access to expand its utility. GAS access is very nice too, but on the other hand their stats are completely ordinary and again, chaos team without mutation access. Not sure about P access on cultists though, seems rather bizarre. That looks like it belongs on another positional to me, in fact it looks like it belongs on another team entirely.

Underworld seems interesting though, basically Skaven with no GR's but normal mutation access to compensate. Not so sure about the chaos dorfs though, they seem to surrender a lot of regular dorf strengths to get those bull centaurs.

LowKey
13-10-2012, 02:11 PM
Bull centaurs are pretty great though, on cultists I would have dropped P access but given them access to mutations, works in a fluff sense but perhaps to OP?

cyberpunkdreams
13-10-2012, 03:47 PM
Slann blitzers have GAS access in addition to vamps so it's not completely unprecedented, just very rare. In unrelated news I would happily pay double if they replaced Khorne with Slann :\

It would be great to see the unofficial Breton side as well, although that wouldn't have fitted with the Chaos theme. I think GW have permanently nixxed Slann, from what I've heard?

What I'm really hanging out for is the entire inducement set, including special play cards. I'd pay good money for that. They'd be a lot of coding involved to implement them though, much more than adding some new teams(which is "just" asset work really, unless new skills are involved).

DarkFenix
13-10-2012, 04:41 PM
Bull centaurs are pretty great though, on cultists I would have dropped P access but given them access to mutations, works in a fluff sense but perhaps to OP?

Oh no doubt, Bull Centaurs are what chaos dorfs are all about, highly mobile st4 beefcakes which could be nightmares to deal with for any frail mobile team with a bit of work, while holding the line against bruiser teams. On the other hand you lose your blitzers, slayers and runners. As for the Khorne cultists, I reckon giving them S normal and everything else (inc. mutation) double access would fit in nicely with the theme of them being a bunch of idiotic, bloodthirsty nutjobs. Strength access would be nice, but on the other hand lack of general access would be a nasty detriment to go with it.

Gorm
13-10-2012, 04:43 PM
Underworld interest me, the skaven have a rule that on a 1 they just dont hand off to goblins or the trolls just because they arent the same race.

NieA7
13-10-2012, 05:23 PM
It's certainly rumored that GW have banned Slann as they don't fit in with their Warhammer image. Massive pity IMO, a team with all VLL and leap would be genuinely different than every other race out there, plus their blitzers and catchers are amazing. Ho hum. Pleased to see Chaos Dorfs at least.

Gorm
13-10-2012, 05:48 PM
Well Chaos Dwarfs are still in the fluff, Slann just arent like they are portrayed in blood bowl. They are all big magical toads that sit around contemplating the universe. Not super athletic ninja frogs.

NieA7
13-10-2012, 06:34 PM
Yes, and fat-ass toads just wouldn't work the same on the pitch I reckon.

potatoedoughnut
13-10-2012, 07:01 PM
Would be cool if the ported the roster to Slaneesh or something. Same roster w/ just different models and names.

El Cubo
13-10-2012, 07:02 PM
Couldn't they just name the team Slanflings and be done with it?

e: Or what potatoedoughnut said.

Screwie
18-10-2012, 11:23 AM
Had my first CE game last night, against squirrelfanatic. He wanted to try a dwarf team in the Challenge league so I made some chaos dwarfs to face him. Having never used the team before it was a bit weird to get used to, but you can clearly see their strengths.

They lack the solid skill base of a dwarf side - having only 6 true dwarf blockers and expensive TRRs - but they make up for it with cheapo foul-friendly 40k linemen and those bull centaurs, stronger and faster than anything on the dwarf side.

The models were rather nice too, although animations were sometimes ropey. The hobgoblins looked the best, although I would have liked to have seen more variation in the appearance of the hobgobs and chaos dwarf blockers (like some LE teams). However the upgraded helm for the blocker is hilarious. :) The team logos are all very nice too, some of the best yet.

As for the match, I lost 1-0 after a massive stalling game. I really had no idea what I was doing, though. And dwarfs are still bastards. :P

Everblue
18-10-2012, 11:59 AM
I am rerolling Khorne in another league, so have played a few games. It's fair to say that it's not going well! I think I have quite a lot to learn...

Agree entirely on the models being let down a bit by the animations. They look lovely, but there's some clipping - particularly with the bloodthirster, who is mahoosive, and whose wings are actually under the pitch when he falls over.

Screwie
18-10-2012, 01:44 PM
Surprisingly, the underworld team doesn't just re-use the skaven and goblin team animations. Although I've yet to see them in a match to get a good look (and they may be rubbish), it's something I wasn't expecting at all.

DarkFenix
18-10-2012, 01:50 PM
It would be nice if the Bloodthirster gave me the impression that the guy who made it has ever seen a picture of one before. Seriously, look at that face, it's less intimidating than a dead snotling.

ChainsawHands
18-10-2012, 01:55 PM
Surprisingly, the underworld team doesn't just re-use the skaven and goblin team animations. Although I've yet to see them in a match to get a good look (and they may be rubbish), it's something I wasn't expecting at all.I'd imagine goblins needed to be reworked anyway to allow for mutations, but skaven's quite surprising.

Screwie
18-10-2012, 02:20 PM
It would be nice if the Bloodthirster gave me the impression that the guy who made it has ever seen a picture of one before. Seriously, look at that face, it's less intimidating than a dead snotling.

It doesn't look any better in its upgraded champion armour, either. Too much featureless plate metal and a dorky mask. On the bright side no one in their right mind will ever field a 180k minotaur with Claws instead of Mighty Blow anyway.

ChainsawHands
18-10-2012, 02:32 PM
30K more for +AV and juggernaught, no mutation access so they start with claw but can take MB on a regular skill, they're actually pretty reasonable value.

ChainsawHands
18-10-2012, 02:35 PM
Actually they're also missing thick skull, so you're getting juggernaught instead of thick skull; still reasonable value though.

Screwie
18-10-2012, 02:43 PM
I was speaking simplistically, sure.

Mostly I think 180k is just too high a base value - especially since minotaurs are arguably too expensive at 150k already.

A (chaos) minotaur with Claw and Jugger is still 10k cheaper than a bloodthirster with MB. For 10k you get more survivability but lose your Mutation access.

You get a slightly more secure investment but you can't do nearly as much with it. Mutation access makes the (chaos) minotaur worth more (and worth it at all, sorry chaos dwarfs) in my eyes.

EDIT: I forgot Thick Skull too, but it's not something you would take if it wasn't free. Bloodthirsters also get Regen, anyway.

mrpier
18-10-2012, 02:47 PM
I've seen some discussions about the Bloodthirster and quite a few seem to think he is essential on a Khorne team.

ChainsawHands
18-10-2012, 02:53 PM
Oh yeah, forgot about regen. So you're getting +AV and juggernaut, swapping thick skull for regen, swapping MB for claw but can take MB on a regular, yeah you're giving up mutation access but on a blitzing minotaur claw's the only mutation you'd want anyway...

They're a bit less flexible (prebuilt as the blitzing type not the roadblock type), but although more expensive I'd say better value than a minotaur.

Everblue
18-10-2012, 03:00 PM
I've found in my (limited) playtime to date, that the Bloodthirster is actually underpriced for its effectiveness. It is an absolute beast of a thing.

The problem is that Khorne teams seem to be built around the blitz, and the 1/6 fail rate due to Wild Animal is just too painful. Loner is just the icing on the cake. I think I'd rather blitz with a herald, since that blitzes at ST4, has strength access, juggernaught and frenzy. This then makes me question the whole purpose of the bloodthirster on the team. Yes, it's amazing, but it's so damn unreliable.

Screwie
18-10-2012, 03:09 PM
I've seen some discussions about the Bloodthirster and quite a few seem to think he is essential on a Khorne team.

Interesting, but I'm not seeing it myself.

A halfway-bashy team will just knock it down and then you have near 200k of TV failing to stand up for the rest of the drive. It still has all the problems minotaurs/rat-ogres/yhetees have with Wild Animal, just a bit tougher to injure and a bit more TV wasted when it's on its back.

As Everblue says, the team has better blitz options. Even more than a chaos side and their minotaur.

Everblue
18-10-2012, 03:28 PM
What "dode74" (who was one of those who came up with the roster) said was that they tried to make it a more effective big guy than the others, but I think they've killed it with loner.

You have some teams with ST5 non-loners (eg undead), and they could have tried that I think. But maybe they did, dunno.

I think perhaps people look at the big guy and see the only player on the team that's above average at 0SPPs, as compared to the pitfighters and the bletters which are going to be hard to use until they get some skills on them. Still trying it out though.

ChainsawHands
18-10-2012, 03:31 PM
The problem is that Khorne teams seem to be built around the blitz, and the 1/6 fail rate due to Wild Animal is just too painful.Yeah, that's why I sacked my minotaur in the Open.

mrpier
18-10-2012, 04:00 PM
Khorne with all that frenzy is pretty unreliable anyway, and it would be harder to frenzy-trap the bloodthirster. That said I bought him in my SP-campaign and he went wild animal on the three first actions (all blitzes) that I tried to do with him :-D

Everblue
18-10-2012, 04:28 PM
http://bbtactics.com/forums/khorne-daemons-guide-t2044/

Screwie
20-10-2012, 11:57 PM
Well, that was fun.

I created a custom SP competition for 56 teams, with the first stage being 8 groups of 8 and 7 matches. Then two odd things happened.

One round, my scheduled opponent was replaced by a 2600+TV Chaos team called [something]'s Undivided - a Chaos team consisting of 12 warriors and 4 minotaurs, no less. Fortunately they are weirdly statted and skilled (the warrior are all +1 MA, -1 AV and there are no Blocking skills on the whole team, just Shadowing, Tentacles and Very Long Legs mainly).

Then I reach day 7 and.... I have no match scheduled. In fact I check back and there are only 3 matches listed every day. For a group of 8 teams. And when I hit Prepare Match nothing happens. Brilliant bug.

EDIT: Ahh, late night ranting. Ignore my maths fail at the top there. 56 is not 8x8 after all. That doesn't explain why I am scheduled for 7 matches when I have 6 opponents, though. Maybe the uber chaos team factors into that but it seems a really obtuse way of doing things. And most importantly, the competition is still impassably bugged at this point. :/

Screwie
19-11-2012, 12:37 PM
Interesting mode for the Khorne team here (http://forum.bloodbowl-game.com/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2208) - it's a "fluff" fix, removing the stupid bloodthirster from the team and swapping some models about, introducing some nicely-rendered khorngors into the bargain. Stats are completely unchanged.

The big guy is now the herald, with the bloodletters replacing the old heralds and the khorngors replacing their previous role in the team.

Not tested for multiplayer yet but looks good.

Screwie
22-11-2012, 12:09 PM
With I made my own spin on the above mod:

Bloodthirster -> Herald
Herald -> Khorngor
Bloodletter -> Bloodletter

I'm much happier with this arrangement. Now all the daemons have Regeneration and only the daemons have Regeneration, so my OCD is satisfied. Also removing the ugliest and least capable bloodthirster in the world from the team eases my lore itch.

Here's how they look:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/khornteam.jpg

All it took was some light database editing, fileswapping and a little rescaling, and it wouldn't have been possible without the excellent work of the modder soapmode.

Also thanks to Everblue for helping to confirm this mod works in multiplayer too. :)

(If I play your Khorne team in the Challange league and get all the names wrong, this is why.)

El Cubo
22-11-2012, 03:28 PM
What are Khorne Heralds supposed to be anyway? Beefed up bloodletters? I'm not too familiar with the lore.

Gorm
22-11-2012, 04:07 PM
Yea basically Bloodletters but Hero level characters.

Dentharial
25-11-2012, 11:10 PM
So Chaos Edition is 50% off in the Steam Sale for the next 13 hours.

However, it seems to only have the 'full version' and not the 'upgrade from LE' version, so it costs $15. Did the upgrade deal disappear? Or is it just temporarily gone while they discount the full version? Am I a blind idiot and is there a way to get the lovely, snuggly Chaos Dwarves and Khorne for $5?

Delusibeta
26-11-2012, 12:26 AM
So Chaos Edition is 50% off in the Steam Sale for the next 13 hours.

However, it seems to only have the 'full version' and not the 'upgrade from LE' version, so it costs $15. Did the upgrade deal disappear? Or is it just temporarily gone while they discount the full version? Am I a blind idiot and is there a way to get the lovely, snuggly Chaos Dwarves and Khorne for $5?
Steam tends to suspect loyalty deals during sales, so probably not.

Debating getting this now, out of curiosity mainly. Although I probably won't play much of it before the Winter Sale, and I really should try FUMBBL first since it's free and hmmm...