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drawlien
10-06-2012, 08:24 PM
So has anyone else picked Dungeon Bowl up yet? It's multiplayer only - presumably after the AI would be even more confused in a dungeon than it is on an open pitch - so I'd be up for a game at some point.

Catch me on Steam or post here if you are interested. If it's any good maybe I'll set up a Challenge league like I did for Blood Bowl...

Heliocentric
10-06-2012, 08:28 PM
Not buying a thing off cyanide ever again until I've seen a review that properly considers its usability flaws and is sold at a major reseller.

I'm a grinch.

edit: it also looks heavily built for dlc.

Screwie
10-06-2012, 09:11 PM
It's out already? Blimey.

EDIT: So three college teams to start, but not the three colleges I would have picked seeing how similar they are. Hopefully more teams soon.



edit: it also looks heavily built for dlc.

I'd be happy if Blood Bowl was the same - it would probably be the better for it.

laneford
10-06-2012, 09:20 PM
I'll get it because I'm a sucker, and, MOAR BOWL, but I'm worried about using cyanides store, anyone know when it's on steam or other digital selling place?

ntw
11-06-2012, 09:24 AM
Those of you who have not yet learned from Cyanide's treatment of BloodBowl and have bought it please post your thoughts here, not that I ever played DB, but I'm interested to know....

Squiz
11-06-2012, 09:31 AM
What, Halflings are present in more than one team (actually more than 50% of all teams!!)? No way I am going to buy this. No seriously, this looks weird.

Screwie
11-06-2012, 09:45 AM
Yeah, hope you like halflings, dwarf and norse!

They seriously should have picked other teams to start. Having said that, the last edition of the DB rules contradicts BB's competition rules in how it deploys big guys, so some teams will need adjusting.

For example, the Jade team is supposedly orcs/goblins/trolls... so do they get 5 trolls now? :D

LowKey
11-06-2012, 11:57 AM
Also interested in this, also afraid of cyanide, 15 euros seems like an ok price, hmm

ChainsawHands
11-06-2012, 12:02 PM
Yeah, hope you like halflings, dwarf and norse!

They seriously should have picked other teams to start. Having said that, the last edition of the DB rules contradicts BB's competition rules in how it deploys big guys, so some teams will need adjusting.

For example, the Jade team is supposedly orcs/goblins/trolls... so do they get 5 trolls now? :DThey've adjusted it so that you can have a max of 2 players with loner on your roster, so at most 2 trolls. Of course, halfling treemen don't have loner.

Also there's only one drive in Dungeon Bowl, so the deathroller looks pretty good.

Vexing Vision
11-06-2012, 12:31 PM
I'll be waiting for a few more teams there before handing over more money to Cyanide.

drawlien
11-06-2012, 12:56 PM
My thoughts so far from having played a single "Hot Seat" game against myself (I didn't bother reading the Dungeon Bowl rules first):

Very similar to bloodbowl, but having it not on a pitch makes an interesting change - not sure if thats just novelty.

I can see that there will be interesting risk/reward decisions on whether to use the teleporting (which seems to go to a random other portal and sometimes the player is removed from play).

There is more danger from the dungeon than from other players! Chests explode if they don't have the ball, teleports can remove the player and if an action is carried out in a precarious position you have to pass a 2+ roll.

Only having 6 players on the board, the randomness of where the ball is and there only being one drive to me limits the game tactically when compared to BB vanilla. However, having choke points and alternative routes/teleporting could counteract this.

The most difficult tactical decision I came up against was - do you spread your team out to get to as many chests as possible or move around in force? I can see the mostly dwarf team camping out protecting their end-zone and letting the other team break itself against the scenery before going and nicking the ball off them, but I don't know if that is actually a viable strategy yet.

In summary - it seems like quite good fun but not as tactically deep as BB. I'll play it for a change but I doubt it will usurp BB's place as a major gaming time sink.

Screwie
11-06-2012, 01:08 PM
I will probably buy a copy this week. Hoping they introduce the Jade, Amber (dark elf/orc/skaven) or Amethyst (skaven/goblin/minotaurs) teams sooner rather than later though.

Amber sounds like a fantastic combo on paper, dark elves with extra bash and extra speed. Also the super-elfy Celestial team would be fun to see.

EDIT: I'd forgotten about the six-player starting set-up. Interesting. More players should be teleporting in throughout the match though, is that not the case?

Suddenly reminded me of a format on FumBBL called BB7, which is 7-a-side with halved positional allocations (and mostly no big guys). Although all that randomness in Dungeonbowl definitely takes it in the opposite direction to BB7 tactically.

drawlien
11-06-2012, 03:37 PM
As I said I didn't read the rulebook/instruction manual first so it may be that I just didn't take the opportunity to teleport people in when I could. It would explain why you need teams of up to 16 or whatever though (I was wondering)!

Screwie
12-06-2012, 09:09 AM
Okay so I bought it *ahem* Not had a chance to play against another human yet, but...

Things I liked immediately:
The UI which has clearly been reskinned from Blood Bowl feels a bit more responsive.
You can spectate games as they're happening, or watch any game's replay you like!
The dungeon layouts include a lot of obstacles that weren't part oft he old Dungeonbowl ruleset. Of particular note are water (or lava) hazards, which impede movement but not passing (or, presumably, leaping) which should make for some interesting play!
The dungeon editor is really excellent. The single tileset available in the game still comes with many floor and wall options, and there are coloured lighting and fog effects you can play with. Truly you can create some unique looking arenas. Also the DB rules are very lenient here - you need only 2 end zones, 1 chest and 1 teleporter to have a legit arena, so you can make it less or more random as you like. I could waste a lot of time here.
You can even test the dungeon levels by playing a game against yourself! Is this feature in regular BB? Because it's awesome.

Things I disliked:
Team selection, obviously.
Cyanide not explaining things particularly well in-game, as usual. Took me a while to find out how to teleport new players into the arena.
The default arenas are all rather small and cruelly designed. At least you don't ever have to use them if you don't want to.
There does not appear to be an option to set up your own league... for now at least, we're all in the main one together.
Weirdly, I couldn't see how to rename players. I might just be dumb.

So worth the money? Hard to say. The dungeon editor is a real highlight and versatile enough for you to create your whole league around specific crazy (or competitive) ideas..... except the lack of private leagues means that you'll have to do so through spreadsheets and gentlemen's agreements. The amount of dwarf in the team choice right now makes the wood elf/halfling/human Rainbow team look a poor prospect, so team choice could have been better.

I love building levels so the dungeon editor was well worth the 10 punt for me, but otherwise I can see how many would want to wait and see what future developments (and microtransactions) are in store for the game.

If you want a game:
I made my in-game name the same as my Blood Bowl one, Screwberry Jam.

ntw
12-06-2012, 09:42 AM
Sounds....interesting. Damn you Screwie!

Screwie
12-06-2012, 10:11 AM
Muahaha!

At some point I want to use the dungeon builder to reproduce DnD's Tomb of Horrors as best as the editor will allow :D

drawlien
12-06-2012, 01:09 PM
Screwie - are you interested in a game on Thursday evening or sometime over the weekend?

Screwie
12-06-2012, 01:26 PM
Sure thing, I might be free Thursday (but might be going to the cinema) and will definitely be around at the weekend. Nudge me if you see me on Steam and I'll let you know closer to the time on the cinema thing.

Screwie
14-06-2012, 02:04 PM
Cinema is off tonight so I will be around for some Dungeonbowling.

Kajo
14-06-2012, 03:00 PM
Waiting for a match report :V

Tom OBedlam
14-06-2012, 03:48 PM
Hmm... I may pick this up come pay day, as Bright College are already included. The Blighter's can field a team quite happily with that. Shame there's only three colleges though.

Edit: Oh, it's only a tenner? Go on then. Anyone fancy a game tonight?

Jarvis
14-06-2012, 08:26 PM
I'll be keeping an eye on this to see what it's like when it's fleshed out more but I'm leaving it in it's current state.

Screwie
15-06-2012, 12:38 AM
Prancing Peacocks (Rainbow College, me) vs Middenheim Mashers (Bright College, Drawlien)

Rainbow College: wood elf/halfling/human
Bright College: human/dwarf/norse
Arena: "Doom" by Cyanide

Doom is a bit of an oddball of a pitch, asymmetrical with wide corridors and open rooms with trench-like pits scattered about. Six chests and six teleporters.

My Peacocks were built with the passing game in mind, fielding 4 throwers - 2 human and 2 wood elf - to move the ball around quickly and freely within the dungeon. The rest of my lineup was 2 wardancers and 2 wood elf catchers, plus a bunch of halflings to fill out the ranks.

My plan going into this game was to field all the throwers in my starting six, rush the chests and hopefully seize the ball and score before drawlien had brought enough defence onto the field to stop me. My wardancers would remain in reserve until the ball had appeared, or the number of remaining chests had dwindled, my catchers would stay in the dugout until the all was in play and preferably in my hands. In the meantime I'd bring out halflings every turn for chest fodder and defence.

Drawlien's side was certainly bashier than mine. His norse allotment had been spent on beserkers an dhe was fielding several human blitzers and dwarf blockers. When I saw his line-up I knew I wasn't going to win in a fight, so I was completely dependent on the speed and agility of my players.

The match didn't exactly go according to plan.

I quickly reached several chests (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_20-39-36_001.jpg), but since opening a booby-trapped one results in an explosion and a turnover it as not a simple matter to search them all. Drawlien caught up quickly, knocking a couple of my elves out in the process and gaining a decent numbers advantage. This was partly my own fault for splitting my team up too much at the start.

To compound matters, drawlien soon found the ball (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_20-52-47_001.jpg) in a chest deep in his half of the arena. From there he could easily form a loose cage (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_20-58-22_001.jpg) and march towards my end zone while I was still trying to recover manpower. I would have to resort to some desperate measures to stop him.

After positioning several players nearby, I scooted a halfling into the middle of drawlien's cage to open up one of the remaining, and assuredly booby-trapped, chests. The resulting explosion (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_21-01-16_001.jpg) stunned the halfling but KO'd two of drawlien's players. My turn was immediately over, but hopefully drawlien would not be able to gain too much ground before my next one.

I also started shifting my elves through the randomised teleporters to try and land behind darwlien's team and surround his cage, while my halflings hung back around my end zone (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_21-01-36_001.jpg) fending off his catchers and blitzers who had come ahead of the cage.

Unfortunately for me drawlien's advance continued unabated, as I could not move enough of my guys into the path of his cage to break it. One of my wardancers badly hurt herself in a failed leap and one of my throwers was left exposed to a push into a nasty spiked pit (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_21-02-12_001.jpg), fortunately escaping serious injury.

Shortly after, drawlien had a clear path to victory (http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_21-06-28_001.jpg). Game over for me on Turn 7.

Peacocks 0 - 1 Mashers

A surprisingly bloodless matchup, and the game clearly still has some issues. We were stuck on 2-minute turns for one, and I had a (failed) Leap move cancelled on me when my turn time ran out for another. Still, it was as lot of fun and I look forward to playing again. :)

---

I have been boshing around with dungeon ideas since I bought this game. Here are a couple:

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_22-37-28_001.jpg
This asymmetrical sewer-like level resulted from a desire to have a desire to make a map that involved navigating lots of pillars and grew from there.

http://i214.photobucket.com/albums/cc82/spuffpuppy/Blood%20Bowl/DungeonBowl_2012-06-14_22-32-27_001.jpg
This is an attempt to create a map which involves an island accessible only by leaping, teleporters, etc. It's a bit basic looking right now as I am still fiddling with the dimensions of the map.

(Apologies for typos etc. I'l proofread this properly in the morning.)

Kajo
15-06-2012, 08:04 AM
There are spaces to be leaped for agility teams, are there some things to be bashed up? (like thin walls)

drawlien
15-06-2012, 09:06 AM
Good write up Screwie!

I found Dungeonbowl (from now on DB) to be pretty good fun, a nice change of pace from BB. It turned out to be more tactical than I had feared and was a nice quick game for playing of an evening (I think the match lasted less than an hour).

My plan for the game was to start with 2 Dwarf Blockers, 2 Human Blitzers, a Human Thrower and a Norse Blitzer. Players would move around in pairs for mutual support - the 2 dwarfs would hang around guarding the end-zone whilst the 2 human blitzers would head one way and the thrower and norse blitzer the other. As new players were added to the dungeon they would either join one of the ball seeking groups or react to the situation as best they could due to their placement.

This worked out pretty well - as Screwie mentioned I fairly quickly found the ball with the Thower-Blitzer group who had subsequently been joined by a human catcher. The 2 blitzer group was able to quickly redeploy in support due to their good movement characteristic and I fairly steadily moved towards the endzone, bashing elves and halflings on the way.

Due to the lack of blood and not risking any passes with Elves around I only got 8 SPPs from the match. This may be the biggest downside to DB compared to BB - teams will be pretty slow to level so you won't get quite as much satisfaction from building a skilled team. Still, I'm hoping to get a couple more games under my belt over the weekend!

Screwie
15-06-2012, 10:01 AM
There are spaces to be leaped for agility teams, are there some things to be bashed up? (like thin walls)

No destructible objects, as far as I'm aware. But bashy teams can be pretty mean near spaces and hazards anyway.

potatoedoughnut
16-06-2012, 01:03 AM
This looks interesting. I might pick it up at some point.

It seems like frenzy would be really good at getting players into places they don't want to be.

It's a shame about the slow leveling, but a highly skilled team might unbalance a lot of the dungeon configurations.

Skydancer
16-06-2012, 01:49 AM
Looking forward to some more writeups, perhaps I'll be gettin it.

drawlien
18-06-2012, 08:58 AM
Screwie and I played another game of DB over the weekend. Another enjoyable match which lasted rather longer than the previous one. It seems the choice of Dungeon can have quite a big impact on how the game plays out.

This time we played on a rather large Dungeon which required quite a bit of use of the teleporters for tactical redeployment. Also there was a lot more bashing in this game compared to the last. Screwie got the ball first and was moving nicely towards the end-zone but I managed to get a load of players in the way and knock the ball out of the Wardancers hands.

I got the ball with one of my players but he only had one or two team mates in support. I got rather lucky with the random teleports which meant I was able to get a pretty good loose cage around him. Screwie's teleports didn't go so well and by the time I had got to the end-zone there was only a single halfling left on his team which couldn't do much to stop the TD.

Biggest lesson learnt in this match: Magic Sponge (which allows you to revive K.O.'d and BH'd players) only has a limited number of uses.

Thanks again for the game Screwie!

Screwie
18-06-2012, 09:34 AM
Biggest lesson learnt in this match: Magic Sponge (which allows you to revive K.O.'d and BH'd players) only has a limited number of uses.

Well either that or there is some other, inadequately-explained, limiting factor. Jervis Johnson's old DB rules don't put a limit on Sponge use, but at the end of the match I had plenty of healthy people in my dugout but couldn't sponge any of them into my reserves box.

One thing that springs to mind is players who are ejected from the dungeon by a bad teleporter roll - this is called "lost in space" in the rules and they are out for the remainder of the match. Maybe I just clocked up a lot of those in our match?

Other things I want to try in my next game, to see if they've been taken from Jervis' rules: leaping over obstacles, and throwing the ball over obstacles...

drawlien
18-06-2012, 01:08 PM
I still haven't actually read the rules - what is special about the leaping and throwing over obstacles? Is it you have to pass a 2+ like doing stuff near a fiery pit?

Screwie
18-06-2012, 01:53 PM
Similar to that yes.

Precarious footing comes into play if you try and block, pass or catch/intercept while adjacent to a hazard, and on a roll of a 1 you fall in instead.

When a ball is thrown over an obstacle, a dice is rolled for each square of obstacle it flies over. On a 1, it hit the obstruction and scatters.

When jumping over an obstacle you fail on a 1 also. This one I'm particularly interested in - whether or not this means every player has what is a sort-of Leap skill (versus obstacles only, but better than an AG roll for most people) in the video game or not, I don't know yet.

Screwie
30-07-2012, 11:10 AM
Been a while since we talked about this but the first chunk of DLC has arrived for Dungeonbowl - a bundle adding the Grey team (Chaos/Human/Ogre) and the Jade team (Goblin/Orc/Troll). Price is 3.99.

Finally nice to see some variety, although shame it is at added cost. Should be interesting to see the first seriously bashy team enter the game, though (and chainsaws!).

Note also that Cyanide have swapped the Humans and Chaos in the Grey side - giving the team access to far more bash than the admittedly outdated rules intended. They did this earlier with one of the base teams to allow more Dwarf.

Oh and the Jade team isn't working right either - surprise!

Unless the Trolls tertiary selection doesn't have Loner, it might as well not be there - since Cyanide restricts you to two Loners on a team and the roster has no shortage of Troll positions!

If the Trolls are intended to have Loner (and therefore be pointless), it's still bugged as the Orc Troll doesn't count towards the limit, thus allowing three!

*grumble*