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Icarus
24-06-2011, 06:42 PM
So this appeared on Steam just now. Anyone know if it's any good?

Edit: I likey me some hacky-slashy stuff. I enjoyed the Dark Alliance games, I loved Oni, and if it weren't for the sluggish controls I'd have liked the Dungeon Siege 3 demo better than I did. So I guess what I'm asking is how good is the combat.

Wizardry
24-06-2011, 06:50 PM
So I guess what I'm asking is how good is the combat.
Not as good as D&D.

Icarus
24-06-2011, 06:56 PM
What is it as good as?

Rossignol
24-06-2011, 07:10 PM
None of us have got around to playing it yet. We should probably look at that.

Giaddon
24-06-2011, 07:11 PM
I haven't played this, but I remember that Metacritic shitted all over it.

That... that probably wasn't helpful.

Icarus
24-06-2011, 08:41 PM
Watched a few videos of this on Youtube. I think I'll hold off on spending a tenner on this, but I might drop a fiver.

vinraith
24-06-2011, 09:30 PM
A friend of mine owns it and can barely get it to run, apparently it's a bit of a buggy mess.

Icarus
24-06-2011, 09:57 PM
General impression seems to be one to avoid, then. What a shame :/

Creeping Death
24-06-2011, 10:00 PM
A friend of mine owns it and can barely get it to run, apparently it's a bit of a buggy mess.

That's a shame. Hopefully they'll get it sorted out. I've seen some videos and iit looked like it could be fun.

Thanks for the heads up.

Wizardry
24-06-2011, 10:21 PM
Why would anyone make a D&D game that isn't D&D? It makes no sense to me. Surely the strong point of D&D is D&D. It's interesting that the best combat systems in RPGs happen to be D&D based, yet even D&D games don't use D&D any more.

vinraith
24-06-2011, 10:24 PM
Why would anyone make a D&D game that isn't D&D? It makes no sense to me. Surely the strong point of D&D is D&D. It's interesting that the best combat systems in RPGs happen to be D&D based, yet even D&D games don't use D&D any more.

Very much the question I asked when Dark Alliance came out way back when. It didn't make sense then, it doesn't make sense now.

Wizardry
24-06-2011, 10:27 PM
Dark Alliance wasn't even the first. There were "D&D" games like Heroes of the Lance and Dragons of Flame back in the 80s. The only positive thing about those was that they came out in a time when actual D&D games were being released. The same can't be said for today.

vinraith
24-06-2011, 10:35 PM
Dark Alliance wasn't even the first. There were "D&D" games like Heroes of the Lance and Dragons of Flame back in the 80s. The only positive thing about those was that they came out in a time when actual D&D games were being released. The same can't be said for today.

Interesting. Since I didn't play PnP D&D until the early 90's, and since my exposure to PC games was severely limited prior to that same period (for lack of a PC at home), I wasn't aware of those. I can sort of dimly understand how you might end up with DragonLance games that weren't D&D, since in the case of that setting there are quite a lot of fans of the novels that don't necessarily play the PnP game. Why you'd bother to license any of the other D&D settings without using the ruleset I can't imagine, and I say that as someone with a real soft spot for Forgotten Realms from back when I used to DM it.

Actually that reminds me, I can think of a couple of D&D settings that would be worth licensing for the uniqueness of the setting alone: Dark Sun and Spelljammer (used to run campaigns in the latter, great fun). Still, the mechanics go a long way towards fleshing out and defining those worlds, which brings me back to where I started.

Yeah, weird.

Wizardry
24-06-2011, 10:46 PM
There are 2 Dark Sun CRPGs, 1 Dark Sun MMORPG, and a Spelljammer CRPG.

TillEulenspiegel
24-06-2011, 11:16 PM
Never any Lankhmar, though. And surprisingly little Eberron, given that it was supposed to be the next big thing. D&D Online doesn't even have the Artificer class. Why bother with the ruleset or the setting if you're barely going to use either?

vinraith
25-06-2011, 01:40 AM
There are 2 Dark Sun CRPGs, 1 Dark Sun MMORPG, and a Spelljammer CRPG.

You are an endless font of useful information. I was aware of one Dark Sun RPG, but not two. MMO's don't particularly matter to me, but as an academic curiousity it's interesting that such a thing exists. I was also unaware of the Spelljammer CRPG, I really MUST look that one up.

All that said, I trust those four examples actually use the D&D mechanics. The particular reason I referenced those settings was that they're among the few pieces of world building in the D&D universe that would be worth licensing for the fluff value alone. I suppose Planescape is another one, but the howls of outrage at a misuse of that would be heard across the internet and down into the depths of the Abyss.

All of which is to say I can't fathom why anyone would license Forgotten Realms as a setting but jettison D&D mechanics. Any old generic fantasy setting would do, after all.

@TillEulenspiegel (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/member.php?611-TillEulenspiegel)

Both after my time, I'm afraid. FOrtunately for me, the PnP settings I remember fondly happened to coincide with a period of frantic classic CRPG creation.

Wizardry
25-06-2011, 01:53 AM
Well, the Dark Sun games are proper AD&D. Quite a good implementation too. Turn-based, of course. The first Dark Sun game, Shattered Lands (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun:_Shattered_Lands), is one of the finest CRPGs of all time. The second (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Sun:_Wake_of_the_Ravager) isn't as good, though it is playable (and buggy). Spelljammer: Pirates of Realmspace (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spelljammer:_Pirates_of_Realmspace) is generally considered a poor CRPG as it was made by a small team on small budget and it was rushed and ended up being glitchy. I know some people who like the game, though.

vinraith
25-06-2011, 02:51 AM
Yeah, Shattered Lands is the one I was aware of. Still, I'll have a look at the others. It's a shame the Spelljammer one wasn't so good. There's a setting that just demands a modern, proper CRPG interpretation.

Anthile
25-06-2011, 02:54 AM
The reviews I read were pretty disastrous. It appears to be D&D in name only and it's really more akin to the Gauntlet games. I guess it's going to be like the last Ghostbusters coop game.

Wizardry
25-06-2011, 03:01 AM
There were some other games set in some other unusual settings. There were two well known Ravenloft CRPGs from the mid '90s, Strahd's Possession and Stone Prophet. There was an Al-Qadim action adventure game called The Genie's Curse released in '94. There was a Birthright turn-based strategy game in '96 called The Gorgon's Alliance. There were a few Mystara games, most of which were console junk though.

Of course you've got your famous ones like Forgotten Realms, Greyhawk, Dragonlance and Eberron. Forgotten Realms has like a billion video games. Greyhawk, surprisingly, doesn't, with Temple of Elemental Evil from 2003 being the first. Eberron has DDO, of course, and that's about it. Dragon Lance has lots of shitty console junk while also having the very good Krynn trilogy to make up for it.

Spacewalk
25-06-2011, 03:26 AM
The reviews I read were pretty disastrous. It appears to be D&D in name only and it's really more akin to the Gauntlet games. I guess it's going to be like the last Ghostbusters coop game.

So I guess the best D&D-but-not-quite are still the two arcade games by Capcom.

Wizardry
25-06-2011, 03:41 AM
Not sure what you mean by that.

Spacewalk
25-06-2011, 04:35 AM
The two I was talking about were Tower Of Doom and Shadow Over Mystara if you haven't heard of them yet. To clarify my term, they're only D&D in setting but light on the other things that make D&D what it is. Which puts them in the same boat as Daggerdale and the other ones you mentioned on the previous page. Of course, being Capcom arcade beat-em-ups from the mid-90s they are a lot more accomplished than all of those games mentioned.

Wizardry
25-06-2011, 04:54 AM
Oh. Okay. At first I thought you meant that they were better than the D&D based CRPGs. I was sharpening my knife.

Anthile
25-06-2011, 05:22 AM
It would be nonsensical to compare them, they're entirely different genres. Shadow Over Mystara is a pretty amazing though and really needs a proper remake. That said, Capcom was pretty good about picking up big licenses and make great games out of them, mainly because they simply reskinned an already good base game (Final Fight in this case) but incorporated enough license-specific stuff to make it unique.

Jaxtrasi
27-06-2011, 12:15 PM
The frustrating thing is that I'd really like to play a D&D 4e turn-based, party-based game.

TillEulenspiegel
27-06-2011, 12:44 PM
The frustrating thing is that I'd really like to play a D&D 4e turn-based, party-based game.
Completely agree. I'm really not a fan of 4e as a pen & paper (& miniatures) game, but it could work reasonably well in a combat-focused CRPG. It's made for tactical combat.

Then again, some of the brokenness of 4e might come to the fore. I've heard people talking about how it's always best to play a party where everyone is the same class. Would probably need major rebalancing to make it a good computer game. It makes me wonder if WotC and other major RPG creators use automated computer simulation as part of their playtesting. Probably not.

Anthile
27-06-2011, 01:04 PM
Then again, some of the brokenness of 4e might come to the fore. I've heard people talking about how it's always best to play a party where everyone is the same class.

As someone who has played some 4e, I have to disagree. 4e is considerably less broken than 3.5e was. No class is considerably more or less powerful than any of the other classes. Making a party that consists only of the same class will not bring you very far. At all. I have no idea how someone could ever say something like this.