PDA

View Full Version : My nw graphics card is driving me insane. Please help!



Sunjumper
16-08-2012, 11:14 PM
A couple of days ago I bought a new GTX670 the ASUS model as that one turned out to be the most quiet of the 670s in various tests and seemed like a rather decent bit of hardware.

However after installing it into my computer after it is done booting windows (which works perfectly fine) it just shows a black screen. Every once in a while the desktop may flash up and the monitor every once in a while detects a signal but most of the time it does not.
I've updated drivers, uninstalled and installed pretty much everything, but the problem remains.
I do suspect some kind of problem with the drivers as the card works perfectly well when Windows boots in protected mode...

Any suggestions?

Moraven
17-08-2012, 12:42 AM
Reseat the graphics card into your mobo.

Uninstall the drivers manually and reinstall. (Don't let the install uninstall old drivers for you).

What power supply do you have? Is all the PCIE power adapters plugged in?

Jesus_Phish
17-08-2012, 11:27 AM
Is your graphics card somehow jumping into a higher refresh rate than your display can handle? What display are you using? If it's something like a HD tv, I've seen issues before where setting the refresh rate of your display too high results in the tv displaying no signal/black screen?

If you boot to windows and it goes black, can you set the displays refresh rate differently? Do you have another display to test it on?

Alex Bakke
17-08-2012, 03:12 PM
Does your motherboard have onboard graphics? If so, then we know the PC has at least picked up that the GPU is plugged in. If your PC does not have onboard graphics, then I would suggest making sure you've actually plugged in the power leads! I had the same problem, one of the 6 pin power plugs was unplugged.

Sunjumper
17-08-2012, 06:20 PM
OK. First of all thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

I manually installed and uninstalled all drivers known to man I don't know how many times.

My PSU delivers 650 watts which should be plenty. It is a high efficiency one and the new card when not wrangling with some 3D monster games needs less power than my last one. . .

The power cables are plugged in correctly, there are actually small LEDs next to the power sockets, which are red when the card is slotted in and the power cables are not plugged in or not plugged in correctly.

I do not have on-board graphics. So that should not be a problem.

About the refresh rate. Interesting idea actually. Does not quite explain way there is a picture every once in a blue moon, but that might be a problem. The computer is plugged into an ASUS monitor and my TV, which isn't much help as both run at the same refresh rate and resolution.
I might unearth my old 19" CRT from the basement and see if that works...

Also as long as windows boots in protected mode everything is fine and dandy, thus I suspect that it must be in some way linked to the drivers. The problem is that the card is still pretty new and the older drivers from nVidia refuse to install as there is no 'compatible' software installed.

Fourth day with out my main computer.
And the ASUS 'support' is more than a bit shit. . .

Another observation I made today.
When booting Windows it seems that the thing can't decide on a monitor. It keeps switch back and forth between the two screens several times a second, sometimes sending a signal to one screen then to the other. Also windows is semi loaded in the background, in the short moments when the screen flashes on I got as far as opening the nVidia control center. Fat good that did me.

cowthief skank
19-08-2012, 10:48 AM
Have you tried unplugging the TV and just running the monitor to see if that helps? If it is flashing between one and the other it may be having difficulty there somehow? Not sure what that'd signify, though.

Sunjumper
19-08-2012, 01:15 PM
I ran it on the monitor alone and on the TV alone.
Still black screen. gnnnn

Time for an expedition into the basement.
It might be that the driver for some reason is locked the wrong refresh rate.

In moments like these I hate P.C.s You spend a rather hefty amount of money on new hardware only to find that it simply does not work on your system.

Feldspar
19-08-2012, 01:22 PM
Out of interest, what motherboard do you have? I can only think that something in the drivers is trying to make use of something your motherboard doesn't support.

Sunjumper
19-08-2012, 01:47 PM
MY motherboard is a Gigabyte EP45-DS3R.

And it works on the old CRT.
W.T.F. ?!? o_O

And here the driver set it self to a low resolution and 60 hz refresh rate.
I will try to hook up my my new monitor now as the secondary display and see if I can get it to work from there.

And I get exactly nowhere.
As soon as I plug in either LCD monitor or TV as the second device the card goes mental again, tries to make the newer hardware the main display with the usual disastrous results. While the CRT tends to show the picture of the second monitor something in the drivers causes sufficient mayhem that I can only watch the system crash with wild abandon.
Looks like I'll have to go back to my 260 for now.

And another one. While the card does detect the monitor and the TV correctly (it shows that they are plugged in and identifies them correctly and every once in a blue moon sends them a picture which they display as they should) it does not recognize them as being present as video devices.

Feldspar
19-08-2012, 02:42 PM
So, we're probably looking at something between your graphics drivers and your monitors. Now, I've heard of hacking the extended display identification data to stop the sound getting routed down the HDMI cable, but can't honestly say this is related, advisable or will help in any way.

Sunjumper
19-08-2012, 05:01 PM
I will try to get some kind of help out of customer support tomorrow.
There will probably be an update to the drivers that will fix the problem.

The CRT runs fine (and those things still produce pictures that put most flat screens to shame) but any kind of digital display drives the card utterly bonkers.

Now the 260 is plugged in again which works fine with all the hardware and the new drivers.

Finicky
19-08-2012, 06:09 PM
I will try to get some kind of help out of customer support tomorrow.
There will probably be an update to the drivers that will fix the problem.

The CRT runs fine (and those things still produce pictures that put most flat screens to shame) but any kind of digital display drives the card utterly bonkers.

Now the 260 is plugged in again which works fine with all the hardware and the new drivers.

Hell yeah they do.

Anyhow if it works on the crt it's probably a refresh rate/resolution issue, no? LCD tvs don't really handle a lot of refresh rates and resolutions.

KilgoreTrout_XL
22-08-2012, 06:19 PM
I'd suggest a more through driver sweep- try this and see if it works: http://www.overclock.net/t/1150443/how-to-remove-your-nvidia-gpu-drivers.

I've heard about random issues with HDMI/DisplayPort connections on certain monitors. Are you using a DVI cable? Or something like a HDMI to DVI? The latter might give you issues (but I have no idea why).

If that doesn't work then just RMA the thing.

Sunjumper
22-08-2012, 11:55 PM
It was not the refresh rate as the CRT was working fin in 60hz default. . .

And it was connected either by HDMI to HDMI (does not work) or DVI to HDMI (did not work either) or DVI to VGA (that one worked).

So I lost my patience and RMA the damn thing. I am pretty sure that something important isn't right on a hard ware level with the bloody thing. . .

Jesus_Phish
23-08-2012, 12:08 AM
It sounds like its having a problem with full digital signals.

Good call on RMA

shihying2033
24-08-2012, 02:18 PM
I've seen issues before where setting the refresh rate of your display too high results in the tv displaying no signal/black screen?http://www.liveforexchart.info/g.gif

Patrick Swayze
24-08-2012, 03:37 PM
Honestly 650w just doesn't sound like enough to me.

See if it happens with the next one and report back because im eyeing up a 670 in the near future

Sunjumper
24-08-2012, 07:40 PM
About the PSU.

The card packaging mentioned a 550 W PSU as requirement with two six pin connectors.
That leaves me with an extra 100 watts and I have two six pin connectors who double as eight pins. The PSU has a high efficiency above 80+ (I can't be bothered to look inside the case to see how much more exactly) and was designed to run my old Core2Quad alongside an inhuman GTX280 which consumed more power than a small village.
Besides my old card drew more power idling than the new one which really does not draw all that much power while pushing windows about. Had it crashed in the midst of The Witcher 2 or some other graphically demanding game I would certainly have had my suspicions about the power supply.
Furthermore as I mentioned before, if I plug in a CRT the card runs fine. My old faithful companion can be cranked up to 1600x1200 (at 85hz, not that I am still bitter about the mediocre crap we call monitors today) which posed no problem for the card. Seems that that things was more of a Luddite when it comes to screens than I am.

TheRed
29-10-2012, 09:27 PM
Hey,

Digging this one up because I was wondering if you ever found a, ahem, resolution.

I've put together a new machine over the last couple of days and all was going swimmingly until I tried to install the drivers for the GTX670.. from then on, I had a problem very similar to yours. The machine recognises it, as it reads it upon first starting up briefly before the BIOS screen. It also seems to be powered and in fine, as the display was working through the GPU port. I've tried all the sensible things I can think of, as it will start in safe mode... so I've tried rolling back to no drivers and it starts ok. I've tried newer drivers than those suppled on the disc to no avail. I've read that there could have been some conflicts with audio on-board stuff, so disabled different things there, too.. as well as a few other things. The fact is, I can't get round it, and it's pissed me off all day. This seems to be a very common problem with the 670, so I'm not alone as well as not amused. Seems to me it must be a driver issue alone, and I'm not sure what else to do other than send it back, maybe try with a different one, and then give in and go woth something else.

Sakkura
30-10-2012, 01:29 AM
Honestly 650w just doesn't sound like enough to me.

See if it happens with the next one and report back because im eyeing up a 670 in the near future
I know this is a semi-old post, but I'd just like to point out that 650W is absolutely plenty for a typical system with a single GTX 670. If your CPU and other components aren't too power-hungry, you can run two GTX 670s on it as well.

Always assuming the 650W PSU is actually any good. Fake wattages do happen.

TheRed
30-10-2012, 11:20 AM
I know this is a semi-old post, but I'd just like to point out that 650W is absolutely plenty for a typical system with a single GTX 670. If your CPU and other components aren't too power-hungry, you can run two GTX 670s on it as well.

Always assuming the 650W PSU is actually any good. Fake wattages do happen.

Hi Sakkura

Do you have any ideas about my problem? I've used the exact setup you suggested, 670 aside, and honestly can't see what's causing this issue..

Sparkasaurusmex
30-10-2012, 02:59 PM
I may be misunderstanding the problem, but this might have something to do with setting up your desktops. Have you tried duplicating the display, instead of stretching it? Check desktop setup if you can. Not familiar with Nvidia, but I know this kind of stuff can happen with ATI cards when the settings for display aren't what it expects.

Sakkura
30-10-2012, 05:54 PM
It's an odd problem for sure.

I've googled around a bit and came across a few people who fixed their problems with a GTX 670 by changing from PCIe 3.0 to 2.0 in BIOS. It might be worth a try.

Honestly though, I'd probably be very close to doing an RMA in your situation.

TheRed
30-10-2012, 06:39 PM
I read that too, and it was the last thing I decided to try. I will report back in a bit, but if that doesn't work it's going back. Then I'll be looking at some alternatives (again!). Problem is, if they say it's not faulty... what then? can I say it doesn't work based on drivers or conflicts? It sure as hell doesn't work for me. I got it from ebuyer, and I have to say they've usually been great with me, historically (since 2003 I think!).

TheRed
30-10-2012, 10:03 PM
Nope.

Played with a few BIOS things some more and to no avail, just can't get past the windows starting screen with any NVIDIA drivers installed. It's going back. Vaguely gutted.

Finicky
30-10-2012, 10:52 PM
I know this is a semi-old post, but I'd just like to point out that 650W is absolutely plenty for a typical system with a single GTX 670. If your CPU and other components aren't too power-hungry, you can run two GTX 670s on it as well.

Always assuming the 650W PSU is actually any good. Fake wattages do happen.

I just wanted to hammer this home.

The gtx 670 (even the overclocked gigabyte one) has less than 160 watt PEAK power consumption under full load when gaming. Idle power usage is hilariously low, there is no way you couldn't boot even if you had a 300 Watt psu...

Compare this to a gtx260 (4 year old card), uses 180w ... shitloads of people ran that gpu for years on a 400 watt power supply.
A friend of mine has a gtx260 (just replaced with a 560ti) and he ran that card for almost 3 years on a 400Watt cpu (not some fancy gold label one either).

Anything 500W or higher is MORE than enough for a high end cpu + high end single gpu + raid setup for hdds.

Do not waste your money on a new psu...
Man it must have taken some hilarious levels of viral marketing to convince the average pc user that they need 600+watt power supplies :\

ianjones
02-11-2012, 05:22 PM
last time i saw this problem it was a faulty mobo slot! but i had used 2 cards and found the same issue

TheRed
02-11-2012, 09:50 PM
Cheers ian.

I guess I'll get another card of some form and then we'll know. The 670 could only fit in one slot, so couldn't find out that way. I did, naturally, try!

trjp
05-11-2012, 11:26 AM
I'm probably too late here but I'd emphasise that if drivers don't solve the problem you need to get the card returned ASAP

If you're in the UK (or if your country has an equivalent to our DSR) you have a period of time (7 days from delivery here) to return anything without needing to say why (you have to pay return postage if the seller said you have to - otherwise they need to cover that too)

After that you're in the realm of them accepting it as faulty which could be tricky.

I've changed 100s of GPUs in my life and they all went "remove old drivers, shutdown, remove old card, insert new card (swear at cabling, sneeze at dust!), reboot, watch screen flash a few times, perhaps another restart, windows working, install new drivers, job done.

TheRed
05-11-2012, 07:08 PM
Cheers trjp,

As it happens it did go back to ebuyer within 3 days, and, thankfully, I had an email from them today confirming that the card itself was faulty. So they pay for the courier and so on and I get a full refund. Interesting that the particular model I had has now been discontinued from them.. interesting. Inno3d I think it was.. general problem with them, then?!

I did feel I'd done it all right; as I say I've done it all plenty of times in the past.. it had been a while but you know. It used to be harder!

Hopefully I'll be able to get another one pretty sharpish now, and that might actually work...

trjp
05-11-2012, 07:51 PM
Heh - the only GPU I've ever binned as 'dead' was an Inno3D - I've never had a high opinion of them on that basis alone :)

Glad you got it sorted - worth emphasising that the DSR removes the need to argue about 'workingness' tho. I once had a VERY bad experience with Aria over something I returned which was clearly faulty but they claimed otherwise and demanded I pay to get it back ( 3lots of postage there then!!)

I decided to do just that - took it to Trading Standards - they agreed it was faulty and eventually forced Aria into replacing it and refunding 2 lots of postage - only took 3 months and they deliberately sent a cheque with the wrong name just to aggravate matters. Basically, I'd not piss on Aria if they were on fire - in fact I'd find a petrol station and help the fire along - that experience just taught me to abuse the DSR rather than my nerves...

TheRed
05-11-2012, 08:46 PM
Well I certainly won't be looking at Inno3D again without serious thought. Anyone can have a faulty item here and there, of course, but it's not great. The new one's Pallit and I've had them before without a problem.

Sakkura
05-11-2012, 10:05 PM
Glad you got it sorted - worth emphasising that the DSR removes the need to argue about 'workingness' tho. I once had a VERY bad experience with Aria over something I returned which was clearly faulty but they claimed otherwise and demanded I pay to get it back ( 3lots of postage there then!!)
Also glad it worked out easily (as long as the card you get instead works).

Interesting to see the different level of consumer protection. In Denmark, faulty goods can be returned within 2 years, and if returned within the first 6 months the burden of proof is on the retailer (if they decide to contest the claim).

trjp
06-11-2012, 02:35 AM
Also glad it worked out easily (as long as the card you get instead works).

Interesting to see the different level of consumer protection. In Denmark, faulty goods can be returned within 2 years, and if returned within the first 6 months the burden of proof is on the retailer (if they decide to contest the claim).

That's exactly the same as the UK - first 6 months the retailer must prove the item is OK - after that the buyer must prove the item has an inherent fault or manufacturing defect - always with the retailer and NOT the manufacturer.

Problem is, if a mail-order company stonewalls you, you're forced into getting Trading Standards or the Small Claims Court involved - neither of which are exactly powerful. Trading Standards will lean-on retailers who mess people about but they can't prosecute every dodgy dealer and the worst offenders know this and ignore them. The small claims court is notorious for being impossible to enforce without costing a lot of money you may never get back - it's really just a nice 'threat' to land a fat brown official envelope with a court summons in it on someone's desk :)

TheRed
06-11-2012, 08:55 PM
I whacked in the new card and am now utterly apopleptic. The damn thing now gets nowhere at all, no signal gets sent to the monitor. There seems to be some sort of post happening as the keyboard lights go, but sometimes it restarts itself and so on. The BIOS info never comes up or anything, yet when I last turned it off it was fresh and fine, nvidia drivers gone, no problem smooth-as-you-like bootup into W7. I've tried 'waggling' things, ensuring connectors are all ok, ensuring memory, other leads, anything else I can think off are all fine and in place.

I am fucked off.

TheRed
06-11-2012, 10:19 PM
As far as I can tell, there is something seriously wrong, because I've reset the BIOS, tried running it with onboard settings, removed the card.. it's just dead. Keyboard lights flash but there's nothing at all getting to the monitor with the new system. Fuck fuck shit.

Sparkasaurusmex
07-11-2012, 04:30 PM
How many outputs are on the card? Are you using VGA or DVI or HDMI? Do you have any adapters? (VGA to DVI, vice versa, etc)

TheRed
07-11-2012, 07:38 PM
Uh, I think there are.. 3. Two DVIs, one with the cross, one with the line if that makes sense.. and an HDMI. I think that's it. I have an adapter that converts VGA-DVI, as my monitor connects from VGA. It works 100% fine with my old (this) one, but I'd assume that the VGA should still work from the motherboard VGA port - particularly if I also tried a CMOS clearing, which should make it revert to ensure that onboard out works...

Sparkasaurusmex
07-11-2012, 09:12 PM
last time i saw this problem it was a faulty mobo slot! but i had used 2 cards and found the same issue
This is certainly possible now.

But maybe you need to have the monitor connected to the DVI port instead of the VGA port or something like that?

edit: wait, so if you revert to original CMOS settings, plug into onboard VGA out you still get nothing?

Sparkasaurusmex
07-11-2012, 09:24 PM
TheRed what is your mobo?

trjp
07-11-2012, 09:52 PM
edit: wait, so if you revert to original CMOS settings, plug into onboard VGA out you still get nothing?

I'm reading it as that - the mobo is dead even with the card removed.

One possibility is that the bios isn't reverting to the onboard graphics tho - we need to test the mobo to see what's happening with that.

What I'd do is remove EVERYTHING from the mobo (memory, other cards, SATA/IDE cables, USB/FP Audio headers - just leave the power connector, power switch header and cpu fan header on and try starting it - you'll know if it works because the CPU fan will spin - and you'll get POST beeps (or not) if you have the speaker

If not, we're looking at either

1 - your PSU has failed - this might have been why the old card didn't work and the new one has just pushed it off the cliff. The oNLY way to check this is stick another PSU in there

2 - your mobo has blown. This COULD be caused by the last card - or this card - or the PSU or it could just be a fluke. If another PSU won't make it boot (as naked as possible as above) then that's where we've arrived...

Bad shit, basically - but it's a "one component at a time" rebuild until you find what stops it working.

TheRed
07-11-2012, 11:02 PM
Mobo is Gigabyte Z77-DS3H.

You know, this whole thing is a joke. I was assuming it wasn't POSTing at all, but then remembered that the case doesn't seem to have an internal speaker unless I'm being stupid. The bunch with all the other gubbins (HDDLED and all that) doesn't have speakers connectors, which I've never seen before - so actually, it's a shit to diagnose. This is getting increasingly complex!

I was afraid it might well be a dead motherboard, but I can't see how unless it was the GPU. The annoying thing was, I got the GPU at the same time as the Mobo, and RMAd it, but can't do that with the mobo now.. I'll need to see if there's a warranty etc, or.. if ebuyer admitted the card was faulty, perhaps they'll accept the mobo was damaged by it..?

I'll have to try to take everything off, sure. I'd already done that with the drives and most other bits. No other cards on it. The PSU seems ok, because the GPU fan spun up ok, as do both internal case fans and the CPU fan.

Bad shit indeed. My poor fucking wallet, huh! I decided to stretch to a GTX670 in the first place, and now it looks like I might have to fork another 100+ more to get sorted if I have to replace it. Assuming it hasn't buggered anything else..?

Seriously :(

trjp
07-11-2012, 11:19 PM
These days mobos tend to have either an onboard buzzer/speaker or a header to attach a little one - I've not seen a case with a speaker for a while!?

Only way to diagnose the Mobo as faulty is trial and error - stripping the PC down and seeing what, if anything, works.

Think laterally too - do USB items power-up/charge - do other PCI devices power-up/fans run - do headphones plugged into the sound out (back pref.) produce POST beeps etc. etc.

There may also be a way of resetting the BIOS on the board itself - this can sometimes dig you out of a BIOS-related issue such as it not switching back to onboard graphics for some reason - the manual (at the manuf. website) will tell you that.

The safe money would be on the mobo being damaged by the first GPU but - did it work without that GPU after you RMA'd it? That makes it harder to argue, if so.

I'd not rule-out the PSU either - faulty PSUs can cause allsorts of issues even tho fans spin and PCs even startup and appear to work sometimes...

TheRed
07-11-2012, 11:26 PM
It's all a load of wank. Grr..

It's been 5 years since I put a system I cared about together so maybe I'm just out of date (as I increasingly am all round). I'm going to have to bite the bullet when I get a moment - the problem is I don't have many and I suppose I shouildn't leave any action I could take too long.

No sound from back soundports. Keyboard does come on and go through light flashes (PS2 connector though).. seem to recall the [usb] mouse does too.

Have tried BIOS reset via battery removal and shorting across two jumper pins (both methods outlined in mobo book). No joy.

I have another old gpu but it doesn't fit, and the new gpu doesn't fit on this machine, so I can't even combine parts to check individual components. It's a sort of perfect storm.

The motherboard hasn't been touched since the other GPU was taken out - it was shut down with all working, and my intention was to leave it completely as in my mind it was 'working' at last contact, if that makes sense - all ready to go for the new card. Will have to find a way to check the PSU seperately I suppose.

Super annoyed,

Sparkasaurusmex
08-11-2012, 07:31 AM
do you have another monitor?

trjp
08-11-2012, 02:43 PM
and you can always test it with a cheap PSU - even if the PSU is a bit low-powered (as you're not going to put the GPU in anyway)

I have a crappy 400W (yeah right) here I use for testing -it will make a system boot (or not) and has proven about 20 PSUs to be failures over the last year alone.

corbain
09-11-2012, 12:40 AM
I had the same "perfect storm" of a failed PC build a few years ago, and swore I would never do another one.

In that case, the problem turned out to be the PSU.

trjp
09-11-2012, 09:42 PM
I can't understate how easily a PSU fault can drive you around the twist - PSU problems can cause anything from random freezes/devices disappearing/graphical artifacts right through to the odd BSOD and upto a system which simply doesn't work in some configurations (and eventually in ANY combination).

I owned a PSU tester once-upon-a-time but they're not really much cop- it's just easier to test your PC with another PSU or that PSU in another PC.

Mind you - I did have one case where I diagnosed a dodgy PSU and it transpired that the mobo was damaging the PSU and not the other way around. We only realised this when no less than three PSUs had been trashed (all worked AOK before they went into the system and were dodgy once they've been in there a few days).

Sparkasaurusmex
11-11-2012, 04:10 PM
I'm actually running with a "dodgy" or perhaps maxed out PSU. I do get complete freezes on occasion, but generally everything works fine. I'm probably right at its capacity. I know it's the PSU that causes me these freezes. It's interesting that it doesn't always have problems. (makes a huge difference with USB devices plugged in)

trjp
11-11-2012, 04:46 PM
Worth repeating that a failing/overloaded/overheating PSU is really asking for your system to be damaged - you really should replace that ASAP

PSUs lose effectiveness over time too - generally speaking, you expect to lose 10% a year, tho cheaper ones often go faster than that (so a 3-year-old 'honest' 500W is really 350W and a 2-year-old 'never heard of the brand' 400W is probably 250W on a good day)

When PSUs fail they usually, literally, 'let go'. I've seen sparks which lit a whole room - I've seen sparks travel through a case - I've seen the backplate of a PSU "glowing" in the darkness (good clue it's going to fail there!) and, obviously, there's a major risk that this - or more specifically the sudden removal/application/removal/application of current - will cook everything it's attached to.

I melted an HDD last week - 'may' already have been faulty but it was attached to a portable HDD connection kit I've had for a while and the PSU for that has been 'moody' for a while. When I flipped the HDD over to check it's connections, a little flame popped-out from under the board and there was this little puff of smoke which, to me, said "this is why I'm dead" :)

TheRed
13-11-2012, 11:53 PM
Latest update for me...

Ebuyer said they'll take the motherboard back, or that they probably will, given that it may have been messed up by the GPU itself (ergo not my fault). They sent me this request:

"Before we can accept your board back we need you to send us pictures of the motherboard. We need a clear picture of the CPU socket taken directly from above so we can verify the alignment of the pins"

Any advice on what I need to do with the CPU? I'm thinking I'm going to have to get some new thermal paste when I eventually get actually working parts to try again with.. If that ever happens. in principle, it could still be the PSU OR the new GPU and I wouldn't have a sensible way to know. Annoying as fuck.

trjp
14-11-2012, 12:14 AM
Yeah, this is the worst-case scenario of building your own PC.

Y'know what I would do? Order a new motherboard (and some thermal paste) and when it arrives, throw the CPU into it and see what happens. If everything works you RMA the first mobo, confident that it's at fault. If it DOESN'T work, you DSR the 2nd motherboard, put the paste/cpu to one side and replace everything else :)

Note: you'll need to treat the mobo with kid gloves - it has to go back 'mint' but that shouldn't be a big issue as all you're connecting is the cpu/mobo/1 DIMM/power supply/monitor to test it.

I assume you've tried your existing kit with another PSU already - gotta be worth a try as it's not hard to nick a PSU from a PC for 20 mins to give it a whirl (4 screws)...

Better than testing your PSU on another system as you don't want to spike someone else's P&J

TheRed
15-11-2012, 11:11 PM
UPDATE!

OK.. I was going to swap PSUs and then realised that the CPU fan on my old (this one) plus the old style case meant it would have been a real trial to get it out of the case, even.. so before I did that, I tried (I had found) a different (but broken) GPU card in the thing. Turns out that despite certainly restarting itself a few times and having hard resets done plenty over the last couple of weeks, it actually still works.. The BIOS recognised it had been reset, so I plugged the HD back in and lo, it booted Windows 7 no problemo! I took the opportunity to check different MOBO slots and both 6 pin leads (that the 670 requires) while I was there, and all seems to be fine.

The only conclusion I can really come to is that the MOBO is fine, the memory still reads as fine (inlcuding a W7 check), The processor is recognised fine with all 4 cores, and that the PSU is probably fine too.. the 8800GT, while broken, still spins up and so on, no problem, even if the hardware side isn't working.. so while it only needs 105 watts, the GTX670 only ever wants 170, so it should still have caused some issues had it been the PSU. That's including HDD powered, whereas the screen was black with the GTX670 even with nothing else powered bar the MOBO and CPU.

SO - in short, am I right in thinking it must either be that this GPU - the replacement (and 30 more) than the originally buggered one - is probably also buggered? Or at least that there must be some fundamental conflict with that chipset? I have no clue from here, but I feel like I'm going to have to assume the MOBO is fine but the GPU will again need to go back!!

trjp
16-11-2012, 04:50 AM
Let me get this clear - you put another GPU into your (possibly broken) PC and it works OK now?

I thought you'd tried the PC without a GPU at all - did that not worth either??

This means that the entire problem is that BOTH cards you've had prevent your PC from booting somehow?

The odds of both cards being duff are pretty long - if you return that one and eBuyer find it's duff they may assume you're the now making them duff, in fact - it's a logical conclusion!?

At this point I'd want to try the GPU in that PC again - pref. with a diff. PSU - or that GPU in your other PC perhaps?

TheRed
16-11-2012, 08:32 PM
Right - after further investigations, it turns out that I could fit this new card into my current system (the previous knackered one was a touch too long, can't imagine there'd be much difference but still). Guess what.. the system boots up as expected, but there is not a bean, nary a flicker of life on the monitor. What else can I now conclude but that the GPU is AGAIN done in? This current system has less power from the PSU but should have been enough, so the fact that I get exactly the same thing from both systems, which both work with my old card, surely leaves me no other conclusion? The reason I don't think the system is breaking the cards is that the old card is perfectly ok swapping between this one and the old one, undamaged any more than it already was.. and I at least got a signal on the previous 'new' card, just couldn't get it working with drivers installed for the hardware. This one I get something different, ie nothing at all, from the off, on both.

Think it's time to send it back. Maybe third time lucky?

Jesus_Phish
20-11-2012, 11:22 AM
Just some questions, because I haven't read through all the thread, just this page.

1) You're going to attempt a third graphics card? Are you sure this monitor works?
2) Have you tried the graphics card (any of them) in all the pci slots? I once woke up one morning to turn my pc on only to get nothing showing up on the screen. I put my graphics card into the other pci slot and it worked, I swapped it back to the original and the screen was black again. I had the mobo replaced.
3)Something tells me if you've tried two graphics cards already, which are working in another system (am I correct?) then it's not the graphics cards, but the mobo or perhaps more specifically the pci slot on the mobo.

I'd suggest the following if you can, it sounds like you have two systems.
1) Get the two mobos and PSUs and mark them in your head as MOBO A B and PSU A B. Also get another screen, either a monitor or perhaps a telly with a vga/hdmi port in it you can use and have them as SCREEN A B
2) Try out different configurations with the graphics card. Try
MOBO A + PSU A + SCREEN A
MOBO A + PSU A + SCREEN B
MOBO A + PSU B + SCREEN A
MOBO A + PSU B + SCREEN B
MOBO B + PSU A + SCREEN A
MOBO B + PSU A + SCREEN B
MOBO B + PSU B + SCREEN A
MOBO B + PSU B + SCREEN B

It's a lot of configurations, but at some point in it you should be able to determine what component it is. I'd also suggest trying the card in all the PCI slots.

It sounds like you're taking stabbing guesses at what is actually wrong and just assuming the card is at fault.

trjp
20-11-2012, 11:50 AM
An obvious missing element in this is your monitor - it could easily be the issue here, do you have a TV or anything else you can try this with?

TheRed
04-12-2012, 10:31 PM
An obvious missing element in this is your monitor - it could easily be the issue here, do you have a TV or anything else you can try this with?

Answer, and latest update..

Could it honestly be the monitor? I can't understand how it could be. It works all the time with the old machine, and also worked fine, as far as anything worked fine, with GPU #1.

I ask because I've finally had the time to action some more things, and ebuyer reckon this one was ok - despite it not producing a damn thing on either system. Am I to assume it might still be the PSU, or mobo, or what? This is a seriously problematic build. The system still works seemingly 100% fine when the gpu in this one (that is hardware broken but still displays basics ok mostly) is put into the new system. So.. the monitor does work with this card, in either build, old or new. The install is entirely stable as far as I can tell in the new build. Really a PSU problem, given that it spins everything up ok and should be 650W?

trjp
05-12-2012, 01:26 AM
The question really isn't "could it be the monitor" anymore than "is it likely to be any other thing" - it could even be the monitor CABLE - or a PSU connector - or the Feng Shui of your room :)

The ONLY way to debug this stuff is to try each and every possibly combination of things until you've worked out what does and doesn't work.

The only way we can really help further is with a much clearer picture of what you've tried and what does/doesn't work - basically you need to fill-in something like

System A (mobo/cpu/memory)
System B (mobo/cpu/memory)

PSU A (spec)
PSU B (spec)

GPU A (spec)
GPU B (spec)

and then

System A + PSU A + GPU A = works/fails

When you've done that - you and we will be MUCH clearer where to go next I reckon.

TheRed
09-12-2012, 09:28 PM
I'll fill in that thing in a bit..

BUT a quick thought - this monitor isn't as new as I thought - but it works flawlessly with this system, so.. you know. It only has a VGA input and needs a VGA to DVI adapter on the new one and the old one alike.. there's no reason for the card to require you tp use HDMI or whatever, is there?

I still fundamentally struggle with the fact that the card, which I sent back and ebuyer say is fine this time, displays absolutely nothing on either of my systems, either the new one or the old one. I also don't think it can be the mobo or CPU having real issues unless there's a fundamental random problem, because with the [broken but displays without acceleration] card in this one it's fine; boots up to Windows 7 and is stable as anything as far as I can tell. Even this system has a 500W PSU, which should really be enough. So I don't know why it woudln't work on either unless it IS a monitor issue. But how?

Jesus_Phish
10-12-2012, 12:14 AM
What type of DVI output do the graphics cards have? FYI

DVI-D (digital only) - converters from DVI to VGA won't work with this.
DVI-A (analog only)
DVI-I (digital and analog)

TheRed
10-12-2012, 12:27 AM
OK, here's the point where I am a thicko. How can I identify this? The bottom line is that the outputs on the back of the GTX670 looked exactly the same as the ones on the 8800GT, which work fine. After a quick look, I *think* they both have DVI-I Dual Link ports and that secondary one.. is that DVI-D? Maybe I'm wrong. I don't believe so, but hmm.

OK.. OK. I've just had a look at the adapter and the pins look like DVI-A.. So if the monitor only has an input for VGA, and the adapter seems to be one for DVI-A - even if it's plugged into a DVI-I dual style 'socket' on the GPU card.. would that explain this whole damned mess? If so, what can I do about it - can I get a DVI-D converter for a VGA input cable on this monitor? I've just realised this could be me being very stupid if that's so. On the other hand, is that a faint glimmer of hope I have? I'm not entirey sure, because I do seem to recall trying the different converter at one point that came with the card. Who can say now? The adapters look exactly the same, right? Same symbol on etc?

TheRed
10-12-2012, 12:29 AM
I wonder if I should be telling ebuyer that I do want that card after all..

Jesus_Phish
10-12-2012, 10:19 AM
A lot of the adaptors look the same, you can find images on the first page of google images for DVI. The best place to look to find out what type your card is using is in the cards documentation. Whatever brand of GTX 670 and 8800GT you have will have documented what type of DVI connection they've used. Some of the cards even have it stamped on the face plate.

In answer to going from DVI-D to VGA, you can't do it with a traditional adaptor which just connects the pins properly, like the one you have, but you need a much more expensive version, which converts the signal as well. These can cost over $100.

trjp
10-12-2012, 03:58 PM
It's HIGHLY unlikely a GPU would be DVI-D - that's pretty much designed for 'media' components and not PCs

I always thought 'analog' were the 4 pins around the single 'flat' pin to one side of the plug socket - e.g. if they're there, the cable/socket supports Analog - if they're not (it's just a slot socket or flat pin) it's a digital-only socket/plug.

All the GTX670s I looked at offer DVI-I+DVI-D - although which socket that is/whether it's switchable in the driver or even on the GPU itself I've no idea.

Also - do you realise how SHIT the image you're getting is through a DVI-VGA adaptor!! I cannot even being to imagine owning a decent GPU and plugging it into a VGA socket - esp when a really decent monitor is not much more than 100 these days...

My 'old' PC is connected that way (as I only have 1 digital and 1 analog on this monitor) and it's like putting cream on the screen when I switch-over...

TheRed
12-12-2012, 08:47 PM
OK - the card is being sent back to me by ebuyer, so we'll just have to see.

When I get it back, I'll take some pictures of connections and so on. I have to say I simply don't understand why it's not working. I also don't get why it wouldn't work with this monitor when it works 100% perfectly with my current/old system.

It's a LG W2242S 22" TFT Monitor 1680x1050 8000:1 300cd/m2 5ms VGA, and is about 4 years old. So.. I struggle to see why a GPU, even new, would not be compatible with it. I also find it fundamentally hard to understand the idea that it could be a problem with the motherboard or CPU when it boots up 100% ok - the display simply won't work. The card acts like it's dead but for the fan. The old GPU, when fitted into the new MOBO, will display on this monitor just fine. So in principle, the MOBO slot does at least work in some way. If everything else seems to work as it should, surely it can only be something a bit weird? Maybe the PSU is broken, but I am struggling to see what can be wrong in truth, despite all the discourse on here - for which I am grateful! I just wish I could get the bloody thing working now.

trjp
13-12-2012, 12:55 PM
The issue here is you have no idea if the problem is

a - faulty card/mobo-to-card incompatibility (install it in another PC to test this - if card works in another PC, card isn't faulty)
b - power supply issue (again, testing in another PC would narrow this - but changing the PSU in your PC is required to be sure)
c - a driver issue (if you get no BIOS/POST/startup info on your monitor it's probably not a driver issue - you could also try a Linux bootable DVD to see if that works)
d - a cable/VGA adaptor issue (ideally you'd want to test your PC/this card on a proper DVI-capable device and/or with another cable/adaptor - remember you can get a DVI-HDMI cable and test it on your TV, for example)

The fan spinning on the GPU doesn't mean there still isn't a power issue BTW - making a fan turn requires a tiny amount of the power that a whole GPU needs.

If the card works in your other PC - and moving the other PC's PSU into your PC and testing it DOESN'T work - then you know it's your PC which is at fault tho. If it DOES work - leave the PSUs that way around and/or buy a new PSU!?

Jesus_Phish
13-12-2012, 01:07 PM
I'm in no way trying to offend here, but your posts are becoming more and more confusing to read TheRed. I can't tell what combinations of what we've listed here that you've tried or not. I've no idea what variables have been tested together and it reads like you haven't tried the full combination of some of them. It reads like you're just trying to guess or trying to say "oh it can't be this because ..."


Example

When I get it back, I'll take some pictures of connections and so on. I have to say I simply don't understand why it's not working. I also don't get why it wouldn't work with this monitor when it works 100% perfectly with my current/old system.


What does this mean? What works 100% with the current and old system? A monitor? A graphics card? One or the other?

You just absolutely have to sit down and test all the combinations and record the results and then if it still doesn't work, post those results, but please make it as clear as possible because it's getting confusing and I'm having to read back over pages to try figure out what you're actually doing.

trjp
13-12-2012, 05:49 PM
Yeah - Jesus Phish's comments and my earlier post are some idea of how you solve these things - you cannot eliminate anything because "it just cannot be that" because you'll end-up going around in circles...

That said - reading everything you've written, my feeling is that you either have

a problem with the signal that the card is generating (either refresh rate or a cabling issue)
a compatibility issue between your mobo/card
a problem with your PSU
a faulty card

The only way to find out which of those is true (if any) is to eliminate all other possibilities (whatever remains, however unlilkely, is the answer - said Sherlock Holmes!!)

So if the new card works in your old PC with your old PSU but connected to the same VGA adaptor/cable/monitor - you can rule out the cable/monitor/card being the issue - that's the first and last one written-off.

A compatibility issue with the mobo which is MUCH harder to resolve (read 'impossible') so we skip ahead to the PSU issue and use the PSU from your old PC (or a new PSU) in your new PC, with your new card - and if that works, well it's the PSU innit!

If, at that point, you've had the new card working in your old PC but it's not working in your new PC - it can ONLY be your motherboard which is unhappy with the card for some reason.

The only options there are

1 - BIOS upgrade available?
2 - is the PCI-EX slot you're using the right one - is it the right speed - is it setup in the BIOS correctly?
3 - a new motherboard...

TheRed
14-12-2012, 06:25 PM
I'll be getting the card back perhaps tomorrow, so I'll try to do some more proper investigations soon. It's annoying not having the time to expedite a solution! Sorry if it's been confusing, but I've been confused at different points. I rule nothing out just because I don't understand it - just expressing my frustration! I'll be able to do some photos etc - the real issue is that I simply don't have another machine that's sensibly configured to mix and match, really. It's a lot of expensive gambling to just buy another PSU etc. We'll see.

I appreciate the support from everyone helping!

trjp
15-12-2012, 02:02 AM
The key thing to learn from these situations is that "the only way to solve it is to try EVERYTHING".

When you've been doing this for years, there are some shortcuts - but when you're not in-front of the PC, you have to go through all the motions...

I'm getting pretty good at this now - I can often solve problems from phonecalls which are "my PC is running slow" or "the Internet is off" in just a few questions, but only because I've spend DAYS going through these things before.

The key thing tho - is 'try everything and rule out nothing' because you'd be amazed. 2 years ago I 'scrapped' a PC because it would freeze randomly and I'd tried everything to solve it. When I was breaking it, I discovered one of the SATA cable was broken inside the connector... ... ...

TheRed
16-12-2012, 07:00 PM
Yeah - I know it could be a whole host of things. The problem is, I simply don't have the capacity to have loads of different monitors, PSUs, MOBOs lying about. I'm also a bit short of time. So it becomes quite convoluted and difficult to make progress. while I still don't see how it could be the monitor when it works fine on this one, I don't rule it out. I just don't have another one! We'll see. I'll try to pick up the re-sent card this week and start again. Piece o'crap...

sirgoit
16-12-2012, 07:28 PM
Yeah - I know it could be a whole host of things. The problem is, I simply don't have the capacity to have loads of different monitors, PSUs, MOBOs lying about. I'm also a bit short of time. So it becomes quite convoluted and difficult to make progress. while I still don't see how it could be the monitor when it works fine on this one, I don't rule it out. I just don't have another one! We'll see. I'll try to pick up the re-sent card this week and start again. Piece o'crap...

Just to add, if you get to a point where you're pretty sure the system is booting OK but not showing anything on screen, consider installing tightvnc (http://www.tightvnc.com/)(or any other remote control prog) and set it up so it starts with windows and all that. If you're not super comfortable making it work just sign up to a free logmein.com (http://logmein.com) account and install the client, more hoops but less technical nonsense.

You can at least then login to the system and see what shows up in displays / Nvidia control panel (is it even detecting the monitor etc).

As a final note I'll say I have a Hazro screen which with my card (AMD) will never show anything before windows boots. It's a known bug and there is no easy solution. Point is that monitor compatibility is not as perfect as it should be!

TheRed
17-12-2012, 11:02 PM
OK! I'm going to run through some suppositions.

I've got the card back. Ebuyer claim it isn't faulty, so that can effectively be ruled out.

I've ascertained, as we expected, that the monitor converter is DVI to VGA or whatever. It seems the exact same as the connection required for the 8800GT I had previously that, whilst broken in terms of hardware, still allows me to use my old machine and new machine. So it's unlikely to be the monitor too, I'd be pretty confident in saying.

I've whacked the old GPU and Wireless card in the new machine and am typing from it currently. It's still 100% fine in terms of booting and everything is as I'd assume it should be. Please correct me again - but I imagine this must logically show, without too much doubt, that the CPU is 100% fine as far as this investigation goes.

It also suggests - does it not - that the motherboard is fine in most ways, even if there is an underlying issue with it in relation to the GPU. The MOBO slots clearly aren't 'dead' either, if that makes sense. I also get the same response from both of the PCI slots. If I slot the new card in, once more there is just no signal. The fan spins but there's never any output on the screen at all. I'm assured that the MOBO and GPU should be compatible by the manufacturer of the MOBO.

As such - do you think it's the first port of call to look for MOBO updates and, second, to try a new PSU completely?

Really appreciate your help on this. I'd like to get it licked! I've actually got some time off around christmas too, to devote to this if need be. Shame work and life have denied me much time otherwise! I'll try be as clear as possible, too, and will get photos done if required.

I do have a busy week ahead still, so will reply in snatches and so on - but please bear with me as this could be a very expensive fuck-up if I don't solve it! I'll reward you all with my.. esteem? No?

captin nemo
20-12-2012, 08:07 PM
hey guys over there...i hope you could recommend me a nice graphics card that can help me play "assassin's creed III" without the Pc start to cough and freeze and give me a finger and say "don't dream to play such a game"... :D
and i would be thankful if you also recommend me a nice Processor and rams.
i have a core2duo 3 cache 6 and 4 Giga rams and G-force N210 one giga up to 2 giga.....but the game still slow abit

TheRed
22-12-2012, 01:03 PM
So, tech guys - any ideas on my above post? Am I wrong in my assumptions, or possibly? Is my current 'next step' to resolve a sensible one? I figure that if I can rule out the PSU, it's a useful start.

TheRed
22-12-2012, 05:12 PM
Genuine, worthwhile update:

The problem is apparently NOT the PSU. I got so fucked off that I just went out and bought another (stupidly), a 750W job, and the symptoms are exactly the same. I've also applied a few updates for the motherboard - bit unsure about flashing the BIOS; not done it before and I'm not sure if it's going to change anything, given the descriptions on Gigabyte's page.

So summary...

According to ebuyer, this card is 100% fine

Yet, while the system runs (I'm typing on it now) with my old and slightly broken gpu, I get absolutely nothing on the screen with it.

So the GPU is fine.
Presumably [despite some queries] the monitor can't be the problem seeing as it works otherwise.
The CPU isn't an issue seeing as it runs fine in general.
It detects the RAM fine.


So - I'm beginning to think it pretty much must be a mobo problem. The only thing I haven't tried yet is tweaking the settings for the PCIe slots in the BIOS as I'm not sure what speed they're MEANT to be at, if that makes sense. It may not make any difference, but is that likely an issue if a) I've tried the card in both of the blots and no change and b) the old card just plugs in and does as expected fine?

Jesus_Phish
22-12-2012, 05:22 PM
Answer me this.

Does the system you are using now with the monitor you are using now, work with the graphics card?

TheRed
22-12-2012, 05:40 PM
As it happens, I'm typing this from the 'new' system with the old gpu in it. I did try what you are asking before, and plonk the new gpu into the old system exactly as it stood - and there was nothing doing, exactly as with the newer system. The only thing is, that was not with the new (newest, ie 750W) PSU. I don't know the power usage of the old system - I suppose it might be worth trying the old system with the new PSU and the new GPU. The only thing is, will it work - to an extent, at least - in the old system, seeing as it is 5 years old.. will it be a good measure, if that makes sense? I don't know much about the motherboard in that one. I guess it must have PCIe 2... Hm.

TheRed
24-12-2012, 03:38 PM
Another uodate

This time with some SERIOUS news!

I had a thought, and went and grabbed an HDMI cable - I don't have a telly, but my flatmate does, and I realised hers might have HDMI.. so I plug the 670 card in, whack in the HDMI and, lo and behold, in we go. All seems exactly as it should. OK, the tv isn't very nice to look at - it;s refreshing at 30hz and just looks nasty - but it shows that the card clearly works in the motherboard, at the very least to an extent. Either ebuyer didn't test the card properly or, as I was skeptical about, there is a problem with my monitor.

Can someone explain why my monitor might not like the signal from the 670 - or is the port likely to be the problem, etc.? As I said before, the monitor is a few years old and only has the old style input that requires an adapter to be used before it goes into the DV port on the card.. like in this link:

http://www.kenable.co.uk/images/dvi_vga_adapter_converter_kenable_ltd.jpg

Is this really the problem? Even the GT670 box includes one of those, so surely that's a fairly standard thing still?

Please help me get round this final thing. Are we talking new monitor here? I did list what it was somewhere in the thread - an LG Flaton W2242S-PF.. but unlike the most recent ones, mine doesn't have an HDMI input, only AC-IN and D-SUB. Up until now, it's worked 100% in this fashion:

http://cdnsupport.gateway.com/s/Vidcard/ATI/6008057R/images/01.jpg

Any thoughts?

sirgoit
26-12-2012, 12:09 AM
Have you tied plugging in both the TV and your monitor to see if it is being detected at all by the new card? If so can you force a suitable resolution? Rinse and repeat for each DVI port.

captin nemo
28-12-2012, 11:53 PM
how are you guys ... after trying so many "not working" solutions for my trouble, i come to you as a last hope... i downloaded "The settlers 7 paths to kingdom" after so long waiting time...and once i try to install it gives me that damn error saying "runtime error abnormal program termination" and it refuse to start....please give me a solution

trjp
29-12-2012, 05:03 AM
Have you tied plugging in both the TV and your monitor to see if it is being detected at all by the new card? If so can you force a suitable resolution? Rinse and repeat for each DVI port.

If he's finds out it's just one port which pushes analog he's going to freak out isn't he? :)

HDMI->VGA adaptors rely on an analog signal being present of course - even if the plugs/cables are wired for analog (the 4 pings around the long single pin to the side of the plug) (and if it worked with another card they clearly are) the card may not be pushing analog for some reason.

Have you dug around in Catalyst to see if the card has an enable/disable Analog option?

The other possible issue is that your card attempts to 'detect' the monitor settings through the cable - if the adaptor/cable is somehow interfering with that, the card could be choosing stupid settings which don't work with the monitor. Have you tried booting into safe mode (which forces standard Windows drivers with VGA output) and seeing if that works?? In there you could then setup the monitor settings/driver properly perhaps - and then reboot and 'see stuff'??

It's weird for a relatively new monitor not to have DVI - the old clunker I'm staring at, replete with it's backlight stress lines, has DVI and it's 5-years-old next month!!

TheRed
06-01-2013, 01:02 AM
Hi

OK - maybe a final update. I think I'm not too bothered about getting the DVI to work. I think it's too much hassle - provided the HDMI does work, then I don't believe there's any reason to worry too much. I've no intention of dual-screening etc. I did consider exploring it all more fully, but after a few cursory checks, I ordered a HDMI --> my monitor converter cheap in the sales - 15 instead of 50 - and bingo. It converts perfectly as far as I can detect, I don't believe there's latency of any noticeable form.. so in essence, it's a sufficient workaround for me. I'm just relieved that I was right about not being entirely incompetent. I knew I'd done everything right, but was doubting myself at one point because I just couldn't get to the bottom of it.

Thanks for all your help.

trjp
06-01-2013, 03:22 AM
Glad you got it working - it's between you and the guy on another forum who's PC shutdown and wouldn't restart when he plugged-in a USB stick that has had me scratching my head the most for quite some time ;)

and no - we didn't solve his issue either - I think it was just a fluke that he inserted a memory stick and his motherboard went 'poof'