View Full Version : TF2 user made script blocking F2P gamers (Kotaku post)
01-07-2011, 05:02 PM
Just saw this in the update news of TF2:
Pretty lame if you ask me (and even if you don't).
Their server their rules. And why would you want to play with folks snobbish enough to run with that sort of thing in any case?
01-07-2011, 07:41 PM
I find it interesting that somebody would use his free time to create something like this, just to be sepereated from people who are new to the game. I experienced TF2 as a rather friendly multiplayer game. If someone didn't behave they would be kicked from the server in most cases. But this is just there to keep new players away, which is indeed snobbish.
01-07-2011, 07:45 PM
If they don't want to play with newbies, I can't fathom why newbies would want to play with them. It's silly that something like this is even necessary for folks that want to run a "veteran" server, just calling it a veteran server should (but obviously wouldn't) get the job done.
01-07-2011, 08:22 PM
Yeah, that's a snobbish move on their part. I'm a regular TF2 player myself and I wouldn't want to play with them either.
I haven't had any problems playing with the new players so far; bit too many snipers and spies but that's to be expected (I'm always amazed as to why so many people pick sniper as a class - it happens in other games like Bad Company 2 as well).
01-07-2011, 08:38 PM
I don't think it's snobbish. I wouldn't install it on a server of my own but after playing with some of these new players dear sweet Jesus they are terrible. It's just ridiculous how bad they can perform. And while I appreciate finally being able to top the scoreboard as a Sniper, I really hope they get better soon. I'm as patient as can be and try to help them out but when a team has 4 Spies and 0 Medics and is getting steamrolled you think someone would realize, Hey, maybe I should switch classes, especially when people are telling me to do so. I know exactly where they're coming from and while I don't endorse it I also don't condemn it.
01-07-2011, 09:21 PM
Of course they're bad. How long has it been since TF2 went F2P? Two weeks?
Give them a chance man.
01-07-2011, 09:24 PM
To be fair, the 4 Sniper 0 Medics problem has been around since the beginning of time. Servers with class limits are a solution to that.
01-07-2011, 09:47 PM
cant imagine the sniper class being that interesting. Ive been an engineer since Team Fortress Classic, and I think I will always be.
01-07-2011, 10:04 PM
I think the sniper theory is that if you're off minding your own business you aren't going to fail the whole team too terribly, while actually a medic who doesn't know anything about medicing would be so much better (or even like a soldier).
Also snipers are cool.
01-07-2011, 10:13 PM
Like Rakysh mentioned, many people think that staying in the back row and shooting at enemies from a distant "hidden" spot is a good way for an average marksman to contribute to your team's effort. In fact it is the exact opposite. A sniper who isn't netting constant kills for his team is useless ballast and would be better off healing, spamming rockets or building sentries. So bad snipers aren't very popular.
Peter Radiator Full Pig
01-07-2011, 10:33 PM
People shouldnt be forced to play with those they dont want to. Class limits can limit interesting things like 4 good spies actually working together, all heavy rush (If you can call that rushing) as so on. Playing with people who follow these things without artifical limits would be much better. If you play to win the game, you dont want to play with people whove had it two weeks. No one is banning new players from the game, just creating a few servers where they cant join. Like putting a password on a server. Do you complain that such people wont let you or people who dont know the pass join? I know I dont mind that restriction on a server.
01-07-2011, 10:34 PM
I don't really mind too much about the games I've been getting. Lots of snipers, but I swear they all start copying whatever class the guy who's doing well is, so it changes a bit. It's nice then going as another class to try and counter so it becomes a tactical cat and mouse. Besides I don't really play to win so I'm ok with it and try to give a few points about the game.
New players are more annoying when they're telling you what to do. That pisses me off. I'm neither a great player nor a terrible one, but you know what, I know what I'm doing. Not everyone needs to be on the cart all the time. Sometimes its better to attack their cart. Also, spy checking is legitimate and it is not absolutely essential for a medic to use his uber immediately when there are no enemies around. (This happened on 3 seperate occasions, at least two I guarantee were new players- a disguised spy standing on an enemy point for 15s doing nothing, when everyone else is dead? Please...)
Not to say that veteran players aren't annoying either. One topped his teams scoreboard and started asking "Am I doing well guys? It's my first time playing.". The prat had his gold badge (Primeval Warrior?) on, and had compained about "noobs" 10 minutes before.
Well, kudos to Kotaku for making the general public more aware of this incredibly rare issue. Now every other guy will start using this script on their server.
//I bought TF2 along with the Orange box so I don't really care but I think that it's pretty snobbish.
01-07-2011, 11:11 PM
Yeah, in the end it always depends on how much choice players have when choosing what and with who they want to play. Passworded servers are absolutely ok, I think. And I don't think that something should be done about walling out others. There are enough servers for everyone. But it shows how a part of the playerbase is reacting to the new F2P design. Could go away in a few months but I think it was worth mentioning.
And concerning effectiveness of players with certain classes. Of course new players will be not as good with any class, that's clear. But it gets frustrating if team members are stubborn and don't adapt to the situation. If 4 spies can win a game, then it was pretty much won anyways. There are simply not that many situations in which a fourth sniper or spy adds anything to the game. Demospam on the other hand... :)
02-07-2011, 12:29 AM
Of course they're bad. How long has it been since TF2 went F2P? Two weeks?
Give them a chance man.
Like I said, I am, I try to help them, but it does get awfully tiring. I completely understand wanting to play only with people who at least have experience with the game. Of course, spending $5 to buy some items in the store will give you instant premium, so this isn't a be-all-end-all or anything, but I get why they're doing this.
Also, guys, it's not specifically Snipers. 4 spies, 4 scouts - anything.
02-07-2011, 12:38 AM
Personally I don't think it matters. Like somebody else said: their server, their rules. It might be childish but if they want to play that way, then you can't stop them.
But it shows how a part of the playerbase is reacting to the new F2P design. Could go away in a few months but I think it was worth mentioning.
The TF2 community is really strange in that they enjoy teamplay but somehow manage to be almost as immature as the legendary CS community when it comes to some things. Any time Valve does anything to TF2, there's an instant backlash and demand for things to go back to the way they were before the update. And then one week later nobody remembers what the problem was because OH MY GOD ITEMS IN MANNCO STORE VALVE THIS IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.
02-07-2011, 12:48 AM
There's another very good reason to do this other than "elitism": the game being free means nick bans don't work anymore because hackers/griefers are just another free Steam account away from popping right back up again.
02-07-2011, 05:18 AM
The stats are astounding. TF2 is unbelievably popular right now
02-07-2011, 08:24 AM
@J Arcane: Yes, I was wondering about that too. I remember Valve posting about wanting to do something about people creating new accounts for cheating, but I don't remember where it was. Since the VAC protection works rather nicely and the fact that players can be banned easily by the respective admins, I don't expect cheating to get out of hand. Every time someone is caught cheating he would have to create a new account, so this could result in some real work for people trying to do it on a regular basis. :)
Gentleman Jim Stacey
02-07-2011, 09:11 AM
I support this until Valve makes free-to-players pass the training mode before joining games. I don't mind standard "new game" lack of awareness, but a lot of the new guys act like they've never played a multiplayer FPS before.
02-07-2011, 03:24 PM
I think it's a good thing. I bought the OB in the Xmas sales but play regularly. I'm certainly not amazing at the game but the influx of new players has given me chance to try new techniques and tactics, helping me improve. Surely this helps the new player learn too?
On the downside my favourite servers are always rammed but, again, this has forced me to try others.
Seems to me the vets are fucking whining without much to back it up.
02-07-2011, 03:27 PM
It's not lame.
The only thing that's lame about TF2 is the fact it's gone F2P. That and the fucking item store.
Valve killed their own game.
RPS forum reader: Valve haven't killed TF2. Just take a look at the stats.
Someone should do a weekly screenshot of the stats.
How did the Item store destroy the game? I am shooting along just fine here. Being a heavy was never so much fun!
02-07-2011, 03:46 PM
I'm pretty sure that guy is a troll.
02-07-2011, 04:22 PM
I'm pretty sure that guy is a troll.
It's WASD..or at least it was...and now he's gone...like magic ;)
02-07-2011, 04:56 PM
I still think its actually one of the RPS staff in disguise, acting as a scapegoat to channel the negative forum vibes for. I say it works, and good going, crew!
02-07-2011, 06:28 PM
I suppose it at least highlights the servers that are full of assholes. All this hate for newbie players is fantastically narrow minded. As good as you think you are, there's someone out there sufficiently better than you that they think you're awful. Should they be allowed to insist that you go practice some more with the bots til you're good enough to play with the portion of the human race that isn't woefully incompetent? Nooope. It's a game. People are there to have fun, not a job that requires bloody training qualifications.
02-07-2011, 06:57 PM
I’m not sure what to think. On one end of the spectrum you’ve got some of these elitist players who would rather watch Twilight than be forced to play with anyone who isn’t in the same league as them, and on the other… well, the other day someone came into my Left 4 Dead game and asked me which button was for firing the gun.
03-07-2011, 11:20 AM
Oooh. I remember in Neotokyo "What does the silencer do?". Ugh.
Any level of player is fine for me. It's just... sometimes people do not listen at all. No matter how often I shout at an engineer to build a dispenser near a choke point, where he already had placed a teleport and a turret, he would not do it, and kept going back to pickup ammo kits and health kits. Which other players also desperately needed because there was no dispenser! AAAGH.
But anyway, I made my fair share of mistakes as well. Especially with the heavy (it's not a CHAAAARGE class at all, unless you are backed up by a medic. When you are not, take care to stay only in areas where you can keep all your enemies in front of you).
Peter Radiator Full Pig
03-07-2011, 11:27 AM
People are there to have fun, not a job that requires bloody training qualifications.
No one is saying nee players cant play. Just not with the people who know the game better.
The vets are there to have fun as well, which, if they have stuck with it this long, might be about winning. Sometimes a games about competing, sometimes its about having a laugh. Why cant they have their fun, too?
If Im playing to have fun, I go on some public server with instaspawn, or somesuch.
If I want to compete in a team based shooter, I want competent people watching my back, buildng up, defending and choosing classes that suit the situation. You see a week old player doing that?
03-07-2011, 12:31 PM
Look at it like this, some people don't have 3 or 4 hours each night free to play a game and so when they do play it they want to know that they are actually going to have a fun, challenging experience. I'm sure a lot of peoples definition of a fun game of TF2 doesn't involve having a team that doesn't even understand the concept of an uber.
There are also many, many servers out there that are available for new players and other pub players to play on together. So is this harming anyone in the slightest? No.
I haven't played TF2 in a few months, but if I were to go back to it now that t has gone f2p I'm glad to know I have a choice as to whether I want to play what could end up being a mildly retarded game or one that is more in line with how I feel a good game should be played.
03-07-2011, 05:46 PM
well. I think I medicced pretty ok. I lead a couple of charges with a group of pyro-soldier-heavy, and always trying to übercharge at the best time. So does that make me an exception for it being my first medic experience?
NOTE: I dont find the game that different from TFC.
03-07-2011, 06:17 PM
I've seen a lot of bad medics, you sound like you're doing it right Quantacat. Just keep healing injured people (not just one heavy, like I see a lot of bad medics doing) and keep an eye out for spies and you'll be doing your team a massive favour.
There are subtle differences from TFC. The removal of grenades is one thing which makes TF2 much better. TFC was a spamfest, with conc-jumping medics and scouts all over the place. TF2 is also far more rigid with its class definitions and is a better game for it, in my opinion.
03-07-2011, 06:40 PM
About TFC:I guess. And I do try to heal everyone, although I have one gripe with the targeting: its hard to retarget if a lot is going on. Theres a soldier and a pyro and another soldier needing attention additionally to the Heavy youre going into the fray with. Is there any easier way to "switch to next target" or somesuch?
03-07-2011, 07:05 PM
There's no 'switch healing targets' button that I know of. There is some other stuff that may be of use though.
In the 'Advanced Options' menu, under 'Class Specific Options', there are some medic options that I find quite useful, if you haven't turned them on already.
The one-click healing option is invaluable as you don't need to keep your finger pressed down on the mouse button while healing. The auto-medic call is also useful for when things get hectic, as it will automatically show people who need healing.
04-07-2011, 06:36 AM
I expressly didnt use the one click healing, as I really want to only heal when I hold the button. But the target thing is a bit hard, atleast atm. maybe itll get easier?
Also, I wish these turrets would exist in Brink :D but they do get killed quite easily.
Mouth of 10000 Teeth
04-07-2011, 09:19 AM
Well the joke is on them, frankly. I bought the games years ago and I'm absolutely terrible. No idea what I'm doing at all. Probably worse than 90% of the F2P crowd. This smacks of snobbery way more than any argument can justify it as pragmatism regarding standard of play.
04-07-2011, 09:48 AM
I haven't found that heal targeting gets easier. That's the price we pay for not actually having to look at our target once the healing has started, I suppose.
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