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Hawk_Silk
25-08-2012, 10:58 PM
I've had ideas for missions set in a theoretical WW III running round my head since the OFP days and finally decided I'm going to commit and attempt to do it, so as the thread title says I'm gauging interest in which version people would perfer to play.

The jist is that the mission(s) would take place in the early to mid days of WW III, and depending on how I do with the first mission it may become a campaign of sorts but multiplayer cooperative focused.

The problem I have at the moment is to me a theoretical WW III would involve the US and EU vs China as opposed to Russia. I'm posting to find out which version would be more acceptable to the majority of players.

A version that uses a modification for Arma 2/OA. (US/EU vs China)
OR
A version that uses only vanilla assets from Arma 2/OA. (US/EU vs Russia)

If the modded version idea proves more popular I aim to use the VME_PLA modification*
I am also open to suggestions for islands instead of Chernarus, however there are a few 'rules' regarding other islands

A) Must be woodland.
B) Must have a coast line.
C) Map must be a decent size.

I could be persuaded to reveal more later however I'm going to keep most of what would happen a secret as we don't want to ruin any surprises do we.

So please let me know your thoughts and/or suggestions.

*VME_PLA: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=14099

Regards Hawk.

StrangLove
25-08-2012, 11:35 PM
As far as maps go, Celle is a beaut, but it has no coastline, only a river. An alternative my be Podagorsk Island, a brilliantly made map with some intricate terrain work lending itself well to some fun scenarios.

Whilst I am fine with using maps (maybe not so fond of new unit addons as much, but I'm open to them), I understand others may not be, so it may be an idea to see if you can do what you want to with default maps before moving on to others. Still, it'd be great to see some new terrain every so often.

Black Mamba
25-08-2012, 11:56 PM
A few ideas that came to my mind regarding possible maps.

First, Lingor (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=10792) came to my mind. Even though it's not woodland per se (more of a jungle), it's not desert either and is one of the greatest maps for Arma 2. It's an Island, though.
Then Emita (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=15482), that would probably be awesome for some urban combat. (and it does have a costline). It's a rather small map though (5x5 km).
Isola Di Capraļa (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12961) is a nice woodland island, it might be small though.
Good ol' Everon (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12787) might be a nice scenery.

Other than that, Panthera (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7467), Namalsk (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=7781) and Podagorsk (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=8791) come to mind.

Or that (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=12765). What?

As for going modded or not, i think i already answered. As i understand the need for TT and Folk not to use mods, i believe an outside event like this (if i understood right) could use a part of the fantastic mod pool we have.
So why not even use some more european units with mods like FDF (http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=13738) or Operation FrenchPoint?
(http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=15869)

Comrade Commissar
26-08-2012, 01:02 AM
Mods all the way.

fer
26-08-2012, 01:43 AM
This sounds very interesting, but it would be ideal if you could stick to vanilla CO (so, Chernarus with units drawn from ArmA2 and OA). You'll be able to draw upon the largest possible player pool (useful for larger, combined arms missions). Also, depending on the nature of the missions, they could be played as part of Folk Sunday / Tactical Tuesday - allowing you to take advantage of the playercounts those sessions already attract. Plus, you can leverage F2 right out of the box.

Hawk_Silk
26-08-2012, 09:04 AM
As far as maps go, Celle is a beaut, but it has no coastline, only a river. An alternative my be Podagorsk Island, a brilliantly made map with some intricate terrain work lending itself well to some fun scenarios.

Ahhh yes Celle I love that map aswell, sadly even if having a coastline wasn't required I wouldn't use it. As to me fighting in Germany just does not feel right without German forces being present, and I don't want people to have to download multiple large modifications just to play one set of missions.

As for Podagorsk that is also a favorite island of mine, it just isn't quite laid out right for what I hope to achieve IIRC. (namely very small villages) I will however take another look at it.


-Snip-

While IceBreakr islands are generally nice and interesting I find a problem where after so long things start lagging on my rather hefty rig, so imagine how bad that could be for folks with medium to low end machines.

Emita is rather small for what I'm doing especially if it ends up becoming a campaign.
Everon however... I do kind of like the idea, purely for the fact it would be a 'return to where it all started' feel.

As for using more European forces etc, honestly I would love to fully represent all forces involved in the conflict, so modifications like BW Mod/OpFrenchpoint/AFRF/JSDF/FDF/CSLA would be excelent. But as you can see from just those abbreviations it is a LARGE list, and what I said above when I quoted StrangLove still applies, asking folks in this case to download upwards of 5gb in modifications would be ridiculous.


This sounds very interesting, but it would be ideal if you could stick to vanilla CO (so, Chernarus with units drawn from ArmA2 and OA). You'll be able to draw upon the largest possible player pool (useful for larger, combined arms missions). Also, depending on the nature of the missions, they could be played as part of Folk Sunday / Tactical Tuesday - allowing you to take advantage of the playercounts those sessions already attract. Plus, you can leverage F2 right out of the box.

You have hit the nail practically on the head regarding my worries about using modifications, after all incase people hadn't realized I do not own any servers nor do I have admin access/rights to any, for Arma 2 I'm just a player that makes use of the servers kindly provided by ARPS and FOLK. (as and when I get round to actually joining FOLK sessions)

So it's also dependent on server admins. Putting players aside for a second I can't see admins really wanting to screw around adding dozens of server keys nor possably being messaged by lots of people because they've had some issues installing a mod or two. (yes setting up mods for Arma 2 is easy, but if you've never done it before it is daunting) I figured with one or two mods however it may be fine.

I'll be quite happy to do it so modifications aren't needed it's just my ideal version would use some modifications, but in cases like this as with most missions it's accessability that will be key, hence why I'm asking in the first place as I would like to see what will be more appealing to both regular players and admins.

Regads Hawk.

StrangLove
26-08-2012, 10:30 AM
So it's also dependent on server admins. Putting players aside for a second I can't see admins really wanting to screw around adding dozens of server keys nor possably being messaged by lots of people because they've had some issues installing a mod or two. (yes setting up mods for Arma 2 is easy, but if you've never done it before it is daunting) I figured with one or two mods however it may be fine.



There is an ARPS mod server if you do chose to follow that route. I'm not sure whether this is at all relative to what you're saying here, so sorry if you knew already.

fer
26-08-2012, 11:37 AM
... as with most missions it's accessability that will be key ...
Totally agree. As a mission maker, I understand that it can be frustrating when it feels as if not enough (or not enough of the right) assets are available to create your desired level of of immersion. However, what I've also found over the years is that player perceptions can be shaped by a surprisingly small number of things. To give two examples:

Bases only used in passing (e.g the start of the mission) can really benefit from a 'set-design' approach: only place enough objects to give the impression of a base, but don't waste performance-eating polygons (and your time!) re-creating a SimCity level of fidelity. If players are sufficiently bought-into the mission concept, they just need enough cues to understand the point of the location. Crucially, during a play-through of the mission, players will almost never spend as much time in that location as the mission maker. So your perception is unreliable (you see too much!).

Similarly, less-is-more when it comes to briefings. A real frustration of mine is mission makers who attempt to write long back-stories in their briefings - which makes the CO's role both time-consuming and hard. A briefing file should be as concise as possible. Long back-stories can be put in their own section if really necessary, but I'd argue that - like a film - it's better to try and convey the story without to much exposition. A nice example is Wolfenswan's Vanguard, which mentions briefly that an outpost has repulsed an attack - it doesn't go into detail or list fictional unit names, but when you fly over it you see 4-5 burning tank wrecks, a passing vista which conveys the back-story of a battle with tanks rather nicely. Given that you have a whole campaign to play with, you've even more opportunity to paint 'the world' in a series of small vignettes.

To loop this back to the original topic, I'm sure that if your mission concepts are strong you can create a really immersive experience without having to rely on mods. You don't necessarily have to write China out of your story, either - players of this game understand that a combatant might only ever see one tiny part of the wider conflict. Perhaps your missions will tell the story of one of several fronts, where the enemy is Russian and the PRC is present only in the narrative. Bottom line: I'm sure your imagination and story-telling will trump any percieved lack of mods!

As an aside, there are them as said you can't possibly have tactical experiences without ACE2, ACRE etc. After 2 years of the Folk/ARPS sessions, we've choked them on those words. We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty! (oh dear, sorry Joss)

Black Mamba
26-08-2012, 12:24 PM
I did suggest so many maps just because you said it could become a campaign. From there, why not consider having multiples AO, thus multiple maps as the campaign unfolds. Sure Emita wouldn't sustain a campaign, it could be the theatre for one or two missions though.
Please, fer, don't hit me in the face.
On an almost unrelated note, that's a strange thing about Icebreakr's maps you said. I tend to have a lot better FPS rates on Lingor than on Chernarus.

Speaking of chernarus, this might be the occasion to try the new stuff: Bystrica and Bucovina or something. In case you mighty hosts ever decide to include them in FOLK/ARPS.

Anyway, i do think a few mods (not total conversion mods, i think you're preaching to the choir here, fer, and don't get me wrong i do love ACE) and most importantly a few new maps would definitely blow a fresh breeze on your project.
Fer, it hurts already, please stop it.

I did learn something about mission making here though, so i'll try and use that for future contributions. Thanks.

Comrade Commissar
26-08-2012, 12:58 PM
About your worries with mods:

As long as you compile them into one or two bundles and not 5000 different modules that have to be downloaded seperately, you will have no problems with an admin putting it on the modserver and people downloading them.

The biggest problem people usually have when they install mods is that there are so many different modfolders.
When it's all in one, it's easy.

Kefirz
26-08-2012, 07:50 PM
You could try to use Sahrani which is Arma (one) original map just converted to arma 2 if you really don't like Chernorus, but as Fer said I think sticking to Cherno would yield you the most amount of players.

fer
27-08-2012, 12:07 PM
Please, fer, don't hit me in the face.

As a senior Party official, I only sign the papers.