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View Full Version : DRM huge brush: Forcing estonian, lithuan, others to use the russian cut down version



Tei
16-09-2012, 10:22 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/zxbmd/here_in_russia_and_the_cis_were_getting_our_own/

This looks bad. Seems that less than 5% of people talk russian in these countries, but are forced to use a russian only version, and paid full price. The russian version is cut down, and is locked to only work with other russian versions.

Its hard enough for these people, because 50 is maybe half the month wage from a worker. Publishers are practically forcing people to pirate games.

Maurish
16-09-2012, 10:35 AM
Fortunately I got my copy from a friend of mine by a gift and I'm not affected by this issue but this is a scam by the publisher.
Let people pre-order the game for 49,99 €, give no warning that the game is Russian only, change it few days before the release to a Russian only version which actually only costs 600 RUB = 19,68 $ = 15 €. Not to mention that you are only allowed to play online with other Russian players. This is unbelievable.

Bankrotas
16-09-2012, 10:41 AM
As some people said. One reason pirating is huge, is because we can't get a normal copy. It's sadly amusing, how western world views us here. There are way too many countries with their national languages, but most of countries in post Soviet zones try to move to western world, not eastern. Only issue, why should we do it, if we're gonna be treated like trash anyways?

Tei
16-09-2012, 10:52 AM
It's sadly amusing, how western world views us here.

I am spanish, and I have met a few lithuaniam, and where amazing cool people. I also have a good opinion of russians. Fuck cut down versions.

I hope Lithuania do well in the future, and maybe return back a visit some day :D

Flabberghast
16-09-2012, 11:10 AM
I am Estonian and can confirm the situation. While there definitely are Russian folk in Estonia, Latvia and Lithuania, a lot of them are the elderly left over from the occupation. Most of the nation's youth does not speak Russian and schools start teaching English to children at age 6-7. While taking this into account, the localization decision for Borderlands 2 does not make any sense.

I do understand the problem of piracy as it is very simple to get a hold of a free copy in these parts, but pirated copies usually come without multiplayer. Many of the players are happy to pay the original price for a proper version of the game here. The distributors are only losing potential customers with this decision and gaining nothing out of it in the grand scheme of things.

Hopefully this will be cleared up ASAP and we can proceed as normal.

Drake Sigar
16-09-2012, 12:22 PM
I know next to nothing about modern day Estonia and Lithuania (or Russia for that matter), but it's always shitty when a publisher treats their customers like the enemy, especially to this extent. On a barely related note, I'm a bit saddened so many MMOs give me an EU version, meeting Russians and Chinese back on Lineage 2 was a lot of fun.

Gasmask Hero
16-09-2012, 02:49 PM
I would suggest 2K's marketing people got hold of an up to date world atlas. Anything published in the last 20 years would do fine.

Alternatively...they could just spend 10 seconds on Google.

DaftPunk
16-09-2012, 03:24 PM
Are there nothing you can do to change the language to english,i remember you could change language in ini file for RE5,from chinese to ENG.

Tei
16-09-2012, 03:28 PM
Are there nothing you can do to change the language to english,i remember you could change language in ini file for RE5,from chinese to ENG.

Only if the game contains all files. Probably thats how multi-culture games are made, by including all files and configuring in a ini what files to load.

Maurish
16-09-2012, 05:14 PM
Are there nothing you can do to change the language to english,i remember you could change language in ini file for RE5,from chinese to ENG.
Even if English language is possible, we're still cut out from the rest of the world. Playing together with people who have the other version of the game will not be possible.

gundato
16-09-2012, 06:48 PM
I'm not sure if region locks really count as DRM (sort of like how Germans get toned down versions of games), but my condolences to all the gamers affected by this.

Sakkura
17-09-2012, 03:23 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/zxbmd/here_in_russia_and_the_cis_were_getting_our_own/

This looks bad. Seems that less than 5% of people talk russian in these countries, but are forced to use a russian only version, and paid full price. The russian version is cut down, and is locked to only work with other russian versions.

Its hard enough for these people, because 50€ is maybe half the month wage from a worker. Publishers are practically forcing people to pirate games.
Over 20% of the people in Estonia are Russian. It still sucks to force the rest to use the Russian version (or pirate). Not only is it a completely different language, it's also the language of their former oppressors.

Sakkura
17-09-2012, 03:24 AM
I know next to nothing about modern day Estonia and Lithuania (or Russia for that matter), but it's always shitty when a publisher treats their customers like the enemy, especially to this extent. On a barely related note, I'm a bit saddened so many MMOs give me an EU version, meeting Russians and Chinese back on Lineage 2 was a lot of fun.
Play Eve Online and tell me how fun it is to meet Russians again, I dare you.

gravity_spoon
17-09-2012, 08:27 AM
Eve Online
The problem is right there and not in nationality. Player base is trash.

Supremum
17-09-2012, 09:21 AM
http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/zxbmd/here_in_russia_and_the_cis_were_getting_our_own/

This looks bad. Seems that less than 5% of people talk russian in these countries, but are forced to use a russian only version, and paid full price. The russian version is cut down, and is locked to only work with other russian versions.

It is actually far worse than that. To quote the post you linked above: "I preordered Borderlands 2, expecting it to be the global version (http://cdr.thebronasium.com/app/49520). There was nothing stated on the preorder page a few days ago, so I just went for it." That's how it goes for thousands of buyers from CIS countries and that is simply illegal.

This lockdown is by far the most ugly case of a complete disregard for Eastern Europe customers' rights and needs.
Advertise and sell one product, then retroactively change it to another? No problem, Steam's EULA has something-something to say about how OK it is! Russian language only for, say, Estonians? Sure, why not! All Estonians speak broken Russian [there's no proper Russian in games' translations], right? Separate multiplayer zone for Russia and CIS? Well of course, who else would want to play with Russians anyway? Madness!

I mean, seriously, someone in the production chain must have asked oneself all of these questions and deduced similar answers. Sure, that person deserves a beating, but that's not the point. Point is, such a crazy-ass bullshit desperately needs media-coverage. It's a damned crime, right here! We [customers and gamers] kind of need some help on this one.

NathanH
17-09-2012, 09:21 AM
I can understand region locking the cheap Russian version so it doesn't work outside a particular region, but why restrict access to the expensive version?

gravity_spoon
17-09-2012, 11:14 AM
I can understand region locking the cheap Russian version so it doesn't work outside a particular region, but why restrict access to the expensive version?
1C. A local Russian publisher is involved. I guess it has something to do with that. They get sort of exclusive rights for Russian retail copies I suppose.

Supremum
17-09-2012, 11:45 AM
1C. A local Russian publisher is involved. I guess it has something to do with that. They get sort of exclusive rights for Russian retail copies I suppose.

Not true. Read the paragraph "UPD 18:57 16.09.2012 (UTC)" from the reddit post mentioned above.

gravity_spoon
17-09-2012, 11:53 AM
Not true. Read the paragraph "UPD 18:57 16.09.2012 (UTC)" from the reddit post mentioned above.

UPD 18:57 16.09.2012 (UTC): (probably last one for today) I should have posted that earlier, but the last part of my original post makes no sense to me now that I'm reading it through again. It's not 1C or SoftClub who is to blame, it's the game's original publisher, in this case, 2K. I removed all the offensive statements directed at Russian publishers, and I'd like to apologize to the people at 1C and to everyone following this thread for the horrible mess I've made. The news hit me as a bit of a shock, so I hope you'll be able to understand why it was written that way. I hope we get some comment from 2K tomorrow. Good night, reddit.

Still doesn't explain why 2K is involved and not 1C as well. If people were able to buy unlocked version on Steam then wouldn't it hit sales that 1C is going to make ? Many sources quoted in there are in Russian and I don't understand it. Some explanation would be very helpful

Supremum
17-09-2012, 11:58 AM
Still doesn't explain why 2K is involved and not 1C as well. If people were able to buy unlocked version on Steam then wouldn't it hit sales that 1C is going to make ? Many sources quoted in there are in Russian and I don't understand it. Some explanation would be very helpful

Well, I don't really have enough time right now to translate a whole relevant topic from 1C forums. Basically, they are not involved in decisions of such a scale at all. At least that is an official version.

gravity_spoon
17-09-2012, 12:07 PM
Well, I don't really have enough time right now to translate a whole relevant topic from 1C forums. Basically, they are not involved in decisions of such a scale at all. At least that is an official version.

Nvm. Got this from here: http://www.softclub.ru/news/article.asp?id=3850 (though Google Translate isnt the best. It is the best I've got for now)

Company "1C-SoftKlab" reminds that has no relation to the spread of Borderlands 2 through digital distribution service Steam. Terms & conditions of pre-orders for this service, and any compatibility issues various publications with one another within the service are the result of agreements between the corporation and the company Valve 2K Games. For compatibility with versions bought directly in the service Steam, the company "1C-SoftKlab" not responsible. Questions regarding the performance of acquired in Steam versions Borderlands 2 , as well as other games, should be addressed to tech support Steam.

gundato
17-09-2012, 02:44 PM
Wow... a poorly cited thread full of second-hand information from a poorly-cited thread full of second-hand information.

Anyone care to provide a summary of what we know thus far, for those of us playing at home who don't feel like reading through all of reddit?

Supremum
17-09-2012, 03:27 PM
Anyone care to provide a summary of what we know thus far, for those of us playing at home who don't feel like reading through all of reddit?

Yup. http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=147466

Sakkura
17-09-2012, 09:45 PM
The problem is right there and not in nationality. Player base is trash.
Hmm, I didn't actually mean that the Russians in Eve are trash. Just that as a westerner you'll probably only ever interact with them by way of stopping their bullets/beams/missiles (lolcaldari) with your face.

Mihkel
17-09-2012, 10:01 PM
Had problems before with 2K/1C in Baltics (Civ5 for instance, wasn't on sale in Estonia but was in Lithuania or Latvia but DLC was and other problems with other games etc). Dno if I'm also screwed considering I bought it from GMG and they gave me a steam key.

Draakon
17-09-2012, 10:02 PM
False advertisement is however illegal. As well as stealing our money (50 euros for a 15 euro copy?!?!?!).

Mihkel
17-09-2012, 10:09 PM
False advertisement is however illegal. As well as stealing our money (50 euros for a 15 euro copy?!?!?!).
I paid about 28 euros but it's still a lot of money for me if it turns out my copy is in russian.

Maurish
17-09-2012, 10:30 PM
If it shows up as "Borderlands 2" in Steam, then you should be fine (copies from GamersGate and GMG seem to be alright). You'll also be able to pre-load ~5 GB of content.
If it's "Borderlands 2 RU" then you're definitely heading towards the Russian version. Pre-load downloads only around 45 MB of content (that's what I've heard from various people affected).
Anyway, 2k said that they're working on it and should have an official statement on this today (US time). Can't predict what will be the outcome but I'm hoping for the best for everyone affected by this nonsense.

Supremum
18-09-2012, 06:49 AM
Anyway, 2k said that they're working on it and should have an official statement on this today (US time). Can't predict what will be the outcome but I'm hoping for the best for everyone affected by this nonsense.
The only kind-of-official statement so far is this (http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?135486-Russian-Lockdown&p=1836046#post1836046):

"2K Games and 1C are aware that digital distribution pages for the Russian, CIS and Baltic States versions of Borderlands 2 contained incorrect information regarding the language and cross territory compatibility support. We apologize that this information was incorrect during the pre-sale and pre-order period for these territories. We are working with our partners to update those pages, and offer any customers who pre-ordered or pre-purchased the game the opportunity to cancel their order and receive a refund.

Additionally, we are working with our product development teams to investigate potential support for additional languages and options for our customers in these territories. While this was and is not possible for launch, we will provide an update this week on our progress."

TL;DR: "Ooops, we screwed up! But hey, you'll get your refund! Oh, and maybe in some indefinite future we'll add support for other languages and options!".

"Potential support" for other subtitles text-files, non-blocked IPs and unified Steam's AppIDs? Wow. Amazingly satisfying.

Maurish
18-09-2012, 08:54 AM
Well this is lazy. Why not give access to the English (World Wide) version to everyone and then hassle with the cheaper, cut off, Russian version of the game. So those who are willing to pay the price they are asking can get the game and those who want it cheaper and Russian can wait.

This is just another good reason why publishers screw things up and then wonder why the rate of piracy on their games is so high. Just give us the option to buy the damn game like other countries and I assure you, people will buy. Those who are going full pirate mode have already made their choice, just don't give people more reasons for it.
And use one release date, dear god, why do I have to use some third-party VPN to get the game earlier. This has been said so many times, publishers should know by now that there are no oceans in the internet.

Supremum
18-09-2012, 09:40 AM
This has been said so many times, publishers should know by now that there are no oceans in the internet.
Apparently simple truths such as this are incomprehensible by the gaming industry's [old school] marketing managers on a fundamental level...

"What you say? Europeans complain that we released our product 3 days earlier in US? But how do they even know, Bob? Blimey!"

gundato
18-09-2012, 01:23 PM
The "internet oceans" are largely because those publishers have to deal with physical distribution too.

Imagine you are one of the people who hate DD with a passion and ONLY buy retail. You are gonna be pissed if you see that all your friends can play a game X months before you because they bought digital, but the regional distributor only got a slot on the shelves at the later date.

Of course, then you have the existing problem of being pissed about your foreign friends...

Moral of the story: more publishers need to basically start ignoring brick and mortar and focus on DD.

jrodman
19-09-2012, 11:53 AM
Weird international pricing models are tedious and sometimes unfair, but refusing to allow people to pay full price for the language they actually speak? Ridonkulous.

jrodman
19-09-2012, 11:55 AM
On another note, I'm loathe to reward this behavior, but can I buy copies (at US prices, presumably with all languages enabled) and gift them to you folks stuck with the Russian version? Or do they do horrid IP locking schemes?

Jesus_Phish
19-09-2012, 12:03 PM
Imagine you are one of the people who hate DD with a passion and ONLY buy retail.

Moral of the story: more publishers need to basically start ignoring brick and mortar and focus on DD.


See something conflicting here? Moral of the story if they ignore brick and mortar stores is "screw you for not liking DD/not being able to use DD". Or do you forget not everyone who likes PC gaming has the ability to use DD? Also DD is really only any use for PC at the moment so what do they do when their game is on consoles too? Or if they're publishing for a handheld?

gundato
19-09-2012, 01:50 PM
See something conflicting here? Moral of the story if they ignore brick and mortar stores is "screw you for not liking DD/not being able to use DD". Or do you forget not everyone who likes PC gaming has the ability to use DD? Also DD is really only any use for PC at the moment so what do they do when their game is on consoles too? Or if they're publishing for a handheld?

Well, I am thinking in terms of "the greater good", as it were. Suffice to say, someone is going to get screwed over no matter what. It might as well be the smallest percentage of gamers as possible.

Like it or not, PC gamers who don't use DD should realize they are "second class gamers", as it were, by now. The heavy usage of always-on DRMs and "service" DRMs (like Steam. Oh how I love Steam :p). Maybe it isn't their fault (when I was younger, I had a crappy video card and didn't have money to upgrade), or maybe it isn't (the people who refuse to upgrade from XP...).
So rather than screw over the entire region by waiting for retail, let retail follow later (I think Paradox has been doing that. I don't even know if Stardock is planning to do any more retail launches at all).

And you are right, consoles are still a problem. They are starting to make a shift, but they have a long way to go. At least on the PS3, many new games have simultaneous PSN and Retail releases, and there have been a lot of AA (but not AAA :p) titles that were digital-exclusives. But, at the same time, we have the precedent of "Platform X gets the DLC a month before you guys. Sorry, but at least you'll know the vampire DLC isn't worth it", so headway is being made there.

Jesus_Phish
19-09-2012, 02:13 PM
Well, I am thinking in terms of "the greater good", as it were. Suffice to say, someone is going to get screwed over no matter what. It might as well be the smallest percentage of gamers as possible.

Like it or not, PC gamers who don't use DD should realize they are "second class gamers", as it were, by now. The heavy usage of always-on DRMs and "service" DRMs (like Steam. Oh how I love Steam :p). Maybe it isn't their fault (when I was younger, I had a crappy video card and didn't have money to upgrade), or maybe it isn't (the people who refuse to upgrade from XP...).
So rather than screw over the entire region by waiting for retail, let retail follow later (I think Paradox has been doing that. I don't even know if Stardock is planning to do any more retail launches at all).

Do you have evidence to suggest that globally the majority of gamers use DD services for all their games and that the only people who buy in Brick and Mortar stores are the minority and that by excluding them it wont harm the publishers business or profile? If so I've news for you.

I live in a country where I have a decent internet connection and can download a new game in about 2-3 hours depending on time of day, game size etc. I still buy most of my new pc games in brick and mortar stores if they're available (most non-indie games are) because they'll be at least €10-20 cheaper than their digital counterpart. I've not preordered Dishonoured on steam or any other DD service because I know I can get it cheaper by walking to a store. So despite being fully able to use steam all the time, I wont.

Now how many countries, cities, towns etc, cant use DD at all. Publishers should just ignore them or threat them like "second class" because of their poor infrastructure (something that's out of their control)? Maybe they have good enough internet to get onto steam to register their game, but maybe they can't download those games. Maybe they register and then play in offline mode. The heavy usage of always on DRM is also the worst reason you can give for this. "Well there's always on DRM so you better have good internet or you can't play our game".

How many people have you seen say "I only buy cheap games and games on sale on (insert DD service)"? I bet a lot more than "I only buy games digitally".

gundato
19-09-2012, 02:33 PM
Do you have evidence to suggest that globally the majority of gamers use DD services for all their games and that the only people who buy in Brick and Mortar stores are the minority and that by excluding them it wont harm the publishers business or profile? If so I've news for you.

I live in a country where I have a decent internet connection and can download a new game in about 2-3 hours depending on time of day, game size etc. I still buy most of my new pc games in brick and mortar stores if they're available (most non-indie games are) because they'll be at least €10-20 cheaper than their digital counterpart. I've not preordered Dishonoured on steam or any other DD service because I know I can get it cheaper by walking to a store. So despite being fully able to use steam all the time, I wont.

Now how many countries, cities, towns etc, cant use DD at all. Publishers should just ignore them or threat them like "second class" because of their poor infrastructure (something that's out of their control)? Maybe they have good enough internet to get onto steam to register their game, but maybe they can't download those games. Maybe they register and then play in offline mode. The heavy usage of always on DRM is also the worst reason you can give for this. "Well there's always on DRM so you better have good internet or you can't play our game".

How many people have you seen say "I only buy cheap games and games on sale on (insert DD service)"? I bet a lot more than "I only buy games digitally".

I don't have hard numbers for that. I assume publishers and developers do. And, as I mentioned, always-on DRM and service DRMs are both VERY popular these days. What those two have in common: They both basically require stable and persistent internet connections.
To my understanding, Steam requires you to patch the game when you are online (even if you tell it not to, it forces you to eventually).
Always-on DRMs require an "always on" internet.

So how is "The publishers assume that having a stable and persistent internet connection is not detrimental to sales" not evidence that Publishers don't think the online requirement is going to not affect too much of the userbase? Say what you will about "stupid Publishers", but they are generally smart enough not to screw over their entire- Let me rephrase that :p. They are generally smart enough so that them screwing us all over to the point that it impacts their profits is the exception to the rule.

And again, I don't say "ignore" brick and mortar entirely (although, I have no real problem with that since B&M tends to ignore and screw PC gaming anyway...). I just say "ignore B&M for the purpose of when you release. Let the retail box come later, if at all". The fact of the matter is: People are gonna get screwed no matter what you do. Is it better to screw over the entire region just so that you don't hurt the feelings of the people who NEED a retail box?

Jesus_Phish
19-09-2012, 03:24 PM
And again, I don't say "ignore" brick and mortar entirely (although, I have no real problem with that since B&M tends to ignore and screw PC gaming anyway...). I just say "ignore B&M for the purpose of when you release. Let the retail box come later, if at all". The fact of the matter is: People are gonna get screwed no matter what you do. Is it better to screw over the entire region just so that you don't hurt the feelings of the people who NEED a retail box?

You're also missing one very big point of this.

I'm 2K games or something. Borderlands is coming out and I tell the world it's getting a digital release first and then a retail release in a month or so. What do you think Brick and Mortar stores are going to think of that? And we can't just look at PC only releases because in the grand scheme of it, there's very few pc only releases these days. Consoles are where the money is. Money is what matters. Getting your game to people matters, hard copy or not. Yes we can all agree that 2K made a huge mistake here with this, but ignoring B&M in any regards is stupid.

gundato
19-09-2012, 03:32 PM
You're also missing one very big point of this.

I'm 2K games or something. Borderlands is coming out and I tell the world it's getting a digital release first and then a retail release in a month or so. What do you think Brick and Mortar stores are going to think of that? And we can't just look at PC only releases because in the grand scheme of it, there's very few pc only releases these days. Consoles are where the money is. Money is what matters. Getting your game to people matters, hard copy or not. Yes we can all agree that 2K made a huge mistake here with this, but ignoring B&M in any regards is stupid.
Yes, it matters.

My original point was "Internet oceans exist because of B&M"
My solution is "Remove B&M as a large factor"

Obviously a LOT of stuff needs to happen for that to happen.. But things are already shifting. Almost every game these days has some form of internet requirement, and even the consoles are trying to shift (they just have to be careful to not piss off the retailers to the point they don't get stocked, as with the PSP Go). I would estimate that, within 10 years, even the consoles will be primarily DD-based.

Maurish
19-09-2012, 05:06 PM
Wasn't Skyrim 11.11.11 worldwide release? I know they had issues with delivering the physical game everywhere on time (at least here in Estonia) but at least they gave it a shot. Diablo III was 15th of May and they had no issues. The stores here said that the game had been there for a while, they just weren't allowed to hand them out yet (you couldn't activate it anyway).

It's not like they're going to ship the game to the stores on Tuesdays and then the EU gets it on Friday because of the shipping overseas. Games are usually in the stores much earlier than that. I'm just saying that it's up to the publisher. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the stores have BL2 there already, waiting for the official release date in Europe. I have yet to hear a good explanation for the Tuesday (US) and Friday (EU) release date silliness.

gundato
19-09-2012, 05:15 PM
Wasn't Skyrim 11.11.11 worldwide release? I know they had issues with delivering the physical game everywhere on time (at least here in Estonia) but at least they gave it a shot. Diablo III was 15th of May and they had no issues. The stores here said that the game had been there for a while, they just weren't allowed to hand them out yet (you couldn't activate it anyway).

It's not like they're going to ship the game to the stores on Tuesdays and then the EU gets it on Friday because of the shipping overseas. Games are usually in the stores much earlier than that. I'm just saying that it's up to the publisher. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the stores have BL2 there already, waiting for the official release date in Europe. I have yet to hear a good explanation for the Tuesday (US) and Friday (EU) release date silliness.

Wardell the Molestor actually commented on this a few years back. Grain of salt, but it is actually really reasonable.

First: A bit of nomenclature (for big publishers, these may all be one entity)

The publisher gives the developers moneys to make the game.
The developer gives the publisher the game to make it available to people.
The publisher gives the game to their regional distributors to print boxes, print discs, and get it on store shelves.
The distributor gives the boxes/serials to the retailer, who sells it to you

Store shelves. THAT is the problem. There is a limited amount of shelfspace in any store. The purpose of the distributor is to ensure that the game will be visible on the shelf. A good publisher/distributor even sends those cardboard cutout things.

But the fact of the matter is, you still need shelf space. I don't know how it was set up, but there are generally slots that are available throughout the year where most/all of the retail chains expect new titles (when old games get sent to the bargain bin and new shelf space is available). That is when new games launch.

That is (one of many) reasons why Elemental flopped. They could either launch when they did, or potentially wait 6-12 months for the next available slot.

deano2099
19-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Do you have evidence to suggest that globally the majority of gamers use DD services for all their games and that the only people who buy in Brick and Mortar stores are the minority and that by excluding them it wont harm the publishers business or profile?
Not yet, EA expect this to happen in a couple of years: http://news.yahoo.com/ea-expects-digital-sales-overtake-boxed-games-113046252--finance.html


I live in a country where I have a decent internet connection and can download a new game in about 2-3 hours depending on time of day, game size etc. I still buy most of my new pc games in brick and mortar stores if they're available (most non-indie games are) because they'll be at least 10-20 cheaper than their digital counterpart.
Do you? Really? Is B&M cheaper than Amazon and such in Ireland? I do the same as you, never buy new releases on digital but certainly don't buy them from shops either as they're always 10 from Play or Amazon.


It's not like they're going to ship the game to the stores on Tuesdays and then the EU gets it on Friday because of the shipping overseas. Games are usually in the stores much earlier than that. I'm just saying that it's up to the publisher. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the stores have BL2 there already, waiting for the official release date in Europe. I have yet to hear a good explanation for the Tuesday (US) and Friday (EU) release date silliness.

Yeah, always struck me as bullshit. Occasionally in the UK in the past couple of years, one store has 'broken the street date' on a high profile title. And what do you know, what does every other store in first the town, then the country do? Go "oh, we don't have the shelf space or anyone working to put the stock out, we'll have to wait until release date". No, they all magically find staff and room to start selling the game. When their own revenue is at risk, suddenly it's possible.

Jesus_Phish
19-09-2012, 06:09 PM
Do you? Really? Is B&M cheaper than Amazon and such in Ireland? I do the same as you, never buy new releases on digital but certainly don't buy them from shops either as they're always 10 from Play or Amazon.


I do. A quick example using Dishonored.

If I order from Amazon the cheapest I can get it for is €37 if I opt for free shipping, which means it'll take 4-5 business days, which in the past has meant the game comes out Friday, they ship it Friday, it sits in the shipping room til monday, then it gets to Ireland by Friday, sits in the post office til Monday and I'll get it Tuesday if I'm lucky.

If I go for 1-2 days delivery I'd pay for 2 day delivery I'd end up paying nearly €70 for it. I can walk over to Gamestop and buy it on release in there for €25. It's probably going to use steamworks and if it does, I can throw the disc away if I like. Wasteful, yes. But saves me 50% on the DD version and cheaper and faster than Amazon.



It's not like they're going to ship the game to the stores on Tuesdays and then the EU gets it on Friday because of the shipping overseas. Games are usually in the stores much earlier than that. I'm just saying that it's up to the publisher. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the stores have BL2 there already, waiting for the official release date in Europe. I have yet to hear a good explanation for the Tuesday (US) and Friday (EU) release date silliness.

In Ireland anyway, almost everything comes out on a Friday. New games, movies, dvds etc. Friday is "pay day" and the end of the traditional working week. People have money in their pockets and a desire to spend it on something with the whole weekend to enjoy. It's stupid, it's outdated, but that's the extent of it.

Koobazaur
19-09-2012, 08:52 PM
My original point was "Internet oceans exist because of B&M"


Not only that, it also has to do with country economic procedures / laws and particular distributors. Take, for instance, Australia which until recently did not allow sale of R-rated games, meaning you might needed to prepare a special version of your game, get re-certified, etc. etc. before you could physically sell it, regardless of it being digital or retail. But retail does add the extra step of needing to also negotiate deals, provided quantities, region (stores) to distribute to etc, that further slows it down.

Basically, navigating between economic policies, governmental certifications, shipping companies, local distributors and the actual stores may mean you end up with very specific dates and #s of copies to sell in different regions. It may simply not always be possible to get international dates synched up perfectly because some local country does not want to start selling your game until few days later cause it wants to get rid of its previous game stock first.

Now this is just my rationalized guess and I could be totally off here, but that's what I always believed to be the reason, rather than "ololol lets mess around with the Russians by releasing our game a week later there!"

deano2099
20-09-2012, 01:40 AM
I do. A quick example using Dishonored.

If I order from Amazon the cheapest I can get it for is €37 if I opt for free shipping, which means it'll take 4-5 business days, which in the past has meant the game comes out Friday, they ship it Friday, it sits in the shipping room til monday, then it gets to Ireland by Friday, sits in the post office til Monday and I'll get it Tuesday if I'm lucky.

Fair play, didn't realise Amazon didn't have any domestic distribution in Ireland, that's pretty naff. No other online retailers that do it cheaper than the stores? So weird, I just took it for granted that it was like that everywhere...

Supremum
20-09-2012, 06:21 AM
Completely satisfying resolution! (http://forums.2kgames.com/showthread.php?135486-Russian-Lockdown&p=1855406#post1855406) (<- link)
Welp, maybe apart from the fact that we don't know if human being(s) responsible for the "USSR-still-exists" mess-up are fired (and sent back to school or something).
Also, kudos to all of the RPS for raising awareness and being overall awesome!

Jesus_Phish
20-09-2012, 09:34 AM
Fair play, didn't realise Amazon didn't have any domestic distribution in Ireland, that's pretty naff. No other online retailers that do it cheaper than the stores? So weird, I just took it for granted that it was like that everywhere...


Yeah Amazon looks like it would be great if you live in the mainland of the UK, but sadly we don't have anything that offers the prices and release day delivery that it offers.