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Bracket
17-09-2012, 07:58 PM
Turns out the the democrats are going to be placing Obama campaign ads into Madden 13, and other EA titles (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2012/09/14/obama-campaign-ads-invading-your-favorite-ea-games).

Is this the first example of politics and games mixing directly? In Madden 11 I think Obama made a digital appearance during the Superbowl celebrations? Presumably had McCain won then he would have been featured. Is EA deliberately taking sides, or if the republicans offered the same amount of money would they too be allowed to place ads?

For a political party this is a really good move, a lot of young people play games and if America is like the UK then a lot of young people do not vote, so the potential to reach a generally disinterested demographic is massive.

However if people do not want to see the ads they cant exactly turn the game off as they would with the TV, and (again this is what I imagine) campaign ads seem to pervade every other facet of american media to the point where there is no escaping them during election time. Is this going too far?

Can't really see this happening in the UK but then our election run in is nothing like the American's. Cameron in dark souls? McLoughlin in Train Simulator?

Any ways just wondering what people thought of this, maybe its not that big a deal.

gundato
17-09-2012, 08:06 PM
One of my friends summed up campaigning for college students, which really is basically the same argument:
Congratulations, you just convinced a bunch of people who won't vote to vote for you. Now go talk to the old folks who ACTUALLY will be voting.

And yeah, this pisses me off. I have nothing against in-game ads, if they are at least done in the context of the in-game world (ads on a subway wall). This is just a banner ad people are forced to look at.

deano2099
17-09-2012, 08:15 PM
Can't really see this happening in the UK but then our election run in is nothing like the American's. Cameron in dark souls? McLoughlin in Train Simulator?


The Tories ran ads on Spotify last election so it's not that far from reality...

Nalano
17-09-2012, 08:20 PM
One of my friends summed up campaigning for college students, which really is basically the same argument:

Congratulations, you just convinced a bunch of people who won't vote to vote for you. Now go talk to the old folks who ACTUALLY will be voting.

Obama's first election was bouyed by an unprecedented turnout of the youth vote (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1031/young-voters-in-the-2008-election).

So, um, yeah.

Grizzly
17-09-2012, 08:22 PM
Turns out the the democrats are going to be placing Obama campaign ads into Madden 13, and other EA titles (http://www.gamepolitics.com/2012/09/14/obama-campaign-ads-invading-your-favorite-ea-games).

Is this the first example of politics and games mixing directly? In Madden 11 I think Obama made a digital appearance during the Superbowl celebrations? Presumably had McCain won then he would have been featured. Is EA deliberately taking sides, or if the republicans offered the same amount of money would they too be allowed to place ads?


Obviously the latter. Ingame ad channels are not a new thing. This ingame ad happens to be political, but there are probably quite a few other advertisements on that channel that have nothing to do with politics. the democratic party just thought it was a good idea to advertise on that ad channel as well.


Is this the first example of politics and games mixing directly?

Well, I don't really know what you mean with that. Call of Duty 4, for example, had a pretty strong but subtle anti-iraq message. Which is quite political, but obscure. A democratic campaign add in madden is very open and clear on what it's intentions are, but the adds are not part of the gameplay mechanics or the ingame story in any way. I wouldn't say they are mixed in this case.

Heliocentric
17-09-2012, 08:24 PM
Obama ads were in burnout paradise, so this is certainly not the first time.

gundato
17-09-2012, 08:28 PM
Obama's first election was bouyed by an unprecedented turnout of the youth vote (http://pewresearch.org/pubs/1031/young-voters-in-the-2008-election).

So, um, yeah.
And listen to how disenfranchised they are after realizing that politicians lie. :p

And I skimmed that article. It sounds more like Obama just managed to get an overwhelming percentage of the young voters, not that the young voters necessarily turned out in drastically lager numbers (although, I may have missed it). Also, the article specifically says they weren't crucial to the victory.

Nalano
17-09-2012, 08:47 PM
And I skimmed that article.

It shows. You clearly didn't read to the end.

Here (http://www.civicyouth.org/new-census-data-confirm-increase-in-youth-voter-turnout-in-2008-election/) are some more (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/youth-turnout-up-by-2-million-from-2004/) articles for you to skim (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27562023/ns/politics-decision_08/t/young-voter-turnout-likely-sets-new-record/).

Finicky
17-09-2012, 08:50 PM
Something something most corrupted country in the world even eclipsing african nations something something.

gundato
17-09-2012, 08:51 PM
It shows. You clearly didn't read to the end.

Here (http://www.civicyouth.org/new-census-data-confirm-increase-in-youth-voter-turnout-in-2008-election/) are some more (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/11/05/youth-turnout-up-by-2-million-from-2004/) articles for you to skim (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27562023/ns/politics-decision_08/t/young-voter-turnout-likely-sets-new-record/).
Well, yeah. That's why I said it. Because the entire article basically said "Obama's campaign actually gave a crap about the young voters, it was not decisive". And I only skimmed the last paragraph where it said official estimates were not available. I missed the AMAZING 1% increase.

And sorry, but 2 million people and 2% or so isn't what I would call amazing. It is a sign that the young vote is starting to matter more, but they are still not a power-house. Not like old people and union workers (which is what both parties tend to target). The former because they somehow became less disenfranchised (go figure) and the latter because they tend to organize transportation and seriously pressure their members to vote on union-lines.

But either way, no real point in arguing politics. Especially considering how heated people get on trivial stuff, the last thing either of us needs is a politically charged flame war :p

Vandelay
17-09-2012, 08:52 PM
The Tories ran ads on Spotify last election so it's not that far from reality...

Makes my subscription and the subsequent removal of ads all the more worthwhile.

And meh to this, as meh to all in game advertising. I am perfectly capable of ignoring adverts in real life, so I'm sure I can do the same in a game. If someone is willing to give a game company more money, which in turn allows them to put more money into making games, I don't really have an issue with seeing "Vote Obama" in the background. I can't really see anyone standing in the polling booth and thinking "I'll pick him, because I saw that name in Madden," though.


(However, as with all issues surrounding politics, I can't be positive I would be so blasť about this if it was the other guys.)

Nalano
17-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics

Politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics politics

But either way, no real point in arguing politics.

Far from reading other people's posts, I wonder if you even read your own.

gundato
17-09-2012, 09:09 PM
Far from reading other people's posts, I wonder if you even read your own.
Oh Nally...

Hypernetic
17-09-2012, 09:14 PM
Wat. How is EA "taking sides"?? They are getting paid for advertising time, just like the ads on TV and everything else.

And let's be honest here for a minute, you'd either have to be exceptionally uninformed or some kind of religious extremist to vote for Romney anyway. The guy lies so much he makes other politicians look honest and he's a fundamentalist nut case.

Bracket
17-09-2012, 09:25 PM
Obviously the latter. Ingame ad channels are not a new thing. This ingame ad happens to be political, but there are probably quite a few other advertisements on that channel that have nothing to do with politics. the democratic party just thought it was a good idea to advertise on that ad channel as well


Obama ads were in burnout paradise, so this is certainly not the first time.

Yeah, turns out that this happened in 2008. Nothing new at all, guess I didn't read the news much back then. Also if I bothered to read to the end of the article that I originally linked to, EA are quoted as saying that they were not displaying any particular allegiance, and that they accept advertisements from any credible political party.

@Grizzly

Well, I don't really know what you mean with that.

Sorry, I meant the mixing between ads for a particular party. Not games making carrying messages or making statements.

@Vandelay
I tend to agree, in-game advertising doesn't really bother me because I don't think I pay much attention to them. However According to EA surveys (http://www.adweek.com/news/technology/obama-taps-video-games-early-voting-143717) conducted during the 2008 ad-run. "Gamers were 120 percent more likely to feel positively about the candidate and 50 percent more likely to consider voting for him after seeing the in-game ads."


Wat. How is EA "taking sides"?? They are getting paid for advertising time, just like the ads on TV and everything else.

Never said they were taking sides. I asked, and it turns out they're not.

Nalano
17-09-2012, 09:36 PM
And let's be honest here for a minute, you'd either have to be exceptionally uninformed or some kind of religious extremist to vote for Romney anyway. The guy lies so much he makes other politicians look honest and he's a fundamentalist nut case.

The only reason he's still in the runnings after joking about firing people, "I have some great friends who are NASCAR team owners," "corporations are people, my friend," his tax return debacle, Bain Capital, horse dressage, "illegitimate rape," running from his own health care plan, insulting England, kowtowing to Netanyahu and alienating the entire Latino vote is because the Koch brothers have personally spent more money on his 2012 campaign than the entire 2008 McCain campaign combined.

RakeShark
17-09-2012, 09:58 PM
Romney's less of a liar and more of a businessman, meaning he flip-flops policies depending on who his shareholders are. I don't begrudge the man (not that I'll vote for him), but running on the Republican ticket was the worst thing he could do. Now his running mate is an out-and-out true believer and full-blown liar.

Hypernetic
17-09-2012, 10:01 PM
Romney's less of a liar and more of a businessman, meaning he flip-flops policies depending on who his shareholders are. I don't begrudge the man (not that I'll vote for him), but running on the Republican ticket was the worst thing he could do. Now his running mate is an out-and-out true believer and full-blown liar.

lie1    [lahy] Show IPA noun, verb, lied, ly∑ing.
noun1.a false statement made with deliberate intent to deceive; anintentional untruth; a falsehood.

2.something intended or serving to convey a false impression;imposture: His flashy car was a lie that deceived no one.

3.an inaccurate or false statement.

4.the charge or accusation of lying (http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/lying): He flung the lie back at hisaccusers.

ReV VAdAUL
17-09-2012, 10:38 PM
A more interesting issue and alas not a PC gaming issue is what effect, if any, the release of Halo 4 on the same day as the election (Nov 6th) will have. It has been suggested that it may prevent some young people from voting because they're playing the game.

Bracket
17-09-2012, 10:51 PM
A more interesting issue and alas not a PC gaming issue is what effect, if any, the release of Halo 4 on the same day as the election (Nov 6th) will have. It has been suggested that it may prevent some young people from voting because they're playing the game.

Actually that is pretty interesting. They should slip a few voting booths into game shops, or perhaps disguise voting stations as entire game shops.

Hypernetic
17-09-2012, 11:04 PM
I don't think it would have any real noticeable effect.

db1331
18-09-2012, 12:32 AM
So are you guys voting for the bottle of douche, or the turd sandwich?

agentorange
18-09-2012, 12:38 AM
First the gay orgies with illegal aliens in Mass Effect, now blatant left wing propaganda plastered on our proud patriotic national past-time; I fucking told you guys video games are turning our children into Mao loving socialists.

trjp
18-09-2012, 03:59 AM
He doesn't need to advertise - the massive fucking idiot who is 'challenging' him just told 47% of his potential supporters not to vote for him.

Money - it makes you a fucking moron - official.

They may as well have run a chimpanzee for the job - the last time they did that (Ronnie the dribbling imbecile) he won, so...

Nalano
18-09-2012, 04:54 AM
He doesn't need to advertise - the massive fucking idiot who is 'challenging' him just told 47% of his potential supporters not to vote for him.

Which 47%? Women are 51%...

Oshada
18-09-2012, 05:19 AM
Which 47%? Women are 51%...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/mitt-romney-47-percent_n_1892227.html?1347935835&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

And he rephrased it later it seems, and still managed to say the same thing and offend everyone all over again. The mind boggles.

Nalano
18-09-2012, 05:46 AM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/09/17/mitt-romney-47-percent_n_1892227.html?1347935835&ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

And he rephrased it later it seems, and still managed to say the same thing and offend everyone all over again. The mind boggles.

Well, ain't that some bona-fide foot-in-mouth disease.

internetonsetadd
18-09-2012, 05:58 AM
This guy. When he expresses his actual beliefs, it has the effect of a gaffe. His positions are gaffes, essentially. There's been a consistent string of them all summer long.

Nalano
18-09-2012, 06:01 AM
This guy. When he expresses his actual beliefs, it has the effect of a gaffe. His positions are gaffes, essentially. There's been a consistent string of them all summer long.

When he declared Paul Ryan his running mate, I thought he'd actually succeeded at finding somebody worse than himself. Now I'm not so sure.

internetonsetadd
18-09-2012, 07:14 AM
Not quite sure why I'm posting this. I wrote it, so... burp.

It's pretty clear that there isn't much of substance Romney can say to appeal to the middle ("I love my dead Mormon dad" didn't work either), but he seems all too comfortable saying anything he thinks a particular subgroup wants to hear, even if he cringes when the wrong people catch wind of it. Policy details and genuine-ish beliefs for some, miniature American flags for others.

A theory I like about Ryan is that he was picked in part to deflect Tea Party/fundamentalist rage should Romney need to swing slightly more toward center--or at least tack center for those who want to hear it. Maybe we'll see confirmation on that if he tells a gathering of women that he thinks vaginas are cool. Ryan's also certainly supposed to be a stand-in for fiscal responsibility (is that resonating?), but what he actually represents is one trillion dollars in proposed but unaccounted-for budget cuts, the details of which would make the pair completely unelectable. I wish that would resonate more.

After hearing about what a cutthroat exploiter of weaknesses Romney was at Bain, most of me wonders if his aloofness isn't some sort of practiced ruse. It doesn't quite disguise the perpetual look on his face, the look of a boss who's attempting to plainly manipulate you, all dopey eyes and shark smile, the kind of guy who read How to Win Friends and Influence People but never realized that it's hard to fake sincerity.

Whatever the case, setting aside everything else, I find them both wholly revolting on an instinctual level, far above average-politician baseline. Choosing the worse of the two is a fun game though.

somini
18-09-2012, 11:20 AM
How can you forget this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jT5XpgbM2eo

Bracket
18-09-2012, 11:44 AM
Excellent.

gundato
18-09-2012, 01:20 PM
Come to think of it, I vaguely recall that Mercenaries 2 had DLC to let you play as Obama and McCain.

ReV VAdAUL
18-09-2012, 02:43 PM
The funniest part of dismissing the 47% of people who don't pay income tax (but do pay other taxes) is that Romney himself doesn't pay any, all the money he makes is from interest on his wealth so he only pays capital gains (which is a much lower rate).


Come to think of it, I vaguely recall that Mercenaries 2 had DLC to let you play as Obama and McCain.

I think Palin was in there too, I have a .gif somewhere of Palin killing people in a game.

lasikbear
18-09-2012, 03:03 PM
Lets play "where do all the people I just insulted live", thanks tax foundation (http://taxfoundation.org:81/article/states-vary-widely-number-tax-filers-no-income-tax-liability)!

Nalano
18-09-2012, 03:16 PM
I think Palin was in there too, I have a .gif somewhere of Palin killing people in a game.

Would that make Cheney a cheat mode?


Lets play "where do all the people I just insulted live", thanks tax foundation (http://taxfoundation.org:81/article/states-vary-widely-number-tax-filers-no-income-tax-liability)!

Too bad most of those states will vote Republican no matter what. Damn you, electoral college!

Sparkasaurusmex
18-09-2012, 03:46 PM
I have nothing against in-game ads, if they are at least done in the context of the in-game world (ads on a subway wall). This is just a banner ad people are forced to look at.

Yeah this might as well be a Coke ad. It's just ad space, sold to whatever entity buys it. Personally it doesn't associate EA with Obama to me. Best thing to do with ads is remove them, barring that- ignore them.

KilgoreTrout_XL
18-09-2012, 05:40 PM
The funniest part of dismissing the 47% of people who don't pay income tax (but do pay other taxes) is that Romney himself doesn't pay any, all the money he makes is from interest on his wealth so he only pays capital gains (which is a much lower rate).



I think Palin was in there too, I have a .gif somewhere of Palin killing people in a game.

I love it when people toss that 47% number around. It's a correct figure, but in order for it to make much difference, you also have to believe that payroll tax, social security/medicare taxes, sales tax, and state income tax aren't "taxes."

The other best part is that at least 1 out of every 4 of the "47% people" who aren't paying Federal Income taxes are senior citizens (the Code exempts the bulk of social security benefits from income tax.) The other other best part is that a smaller, but just as vocal, portion of the "47%" are military members, whose income is normally exempt during wartime.

So if the GOP can't get the elderly or the military to vote for them, I think that leaves carnies and pro wrestling fans as their main supporters.

Edit: to be clear, I didn't mean to include you among those "tossing the number" around.

Smashbox
18-09-2012, 06:08 PM
I love it when people toss that 47% number around. It's a correct figure, but in order for it to make much difference, you also have to believe that payroll tax, social security/medicare taxes, sales tax, and state income tax aren't "taxes."

The other best part is that at least 1 out of every 4 of the "47% people" who aren't paying Federal Income taxes are senior citizens (the Code exempts the bulk of social security benefits from income tax.) The other other best part is that a smaller, but just as vocal, portion of the "47%" are military members, whose income is normally exempt during wartime.

So if the GOP can't get the elderly or the military to vote for them, I think that leaves carnies and pro wrestling fans as their main supporters.

Edit: to be clear, I didn't mean to include you among those "tossing the number" around.

Don't forget the elderly, who make up a large piece of that 47%, and paid taxes for their entire working lives. They're lumped in there, too.

Edit: Oh, you didn't, and now there's no way to save my pointless post. I'm going to recede into the shadows for another few months.

Tritagonist
18-09-2012, 06:40 PM
Come to think of it, I vaguely recall that Mercenaries 2 had DLC to let you play as Obama and McCain.
Dungeon Defenders has a 'Presidents Day' DLC as well, which includes some American political figures.

Nalano
18-09-2012, 06:43 PM
I love it when people toss that 47% number around. It's a correct figure, but in order for it to make much difference, you also have to believe that payroll tax, social security/medicare taxes, sales tax, and state income tax aren't "taxes."

The other best part is that at least 1 out of every 4 of the "47% people" who aren't paying Federal Income taxes are senior citizens (the Code exempts the bulk of social security benefits from income tax.) The other other best part is that a smaller, but just as vocal, portion of the "47%" are military members, whose income is normally exempt during wartime.

So if the GOP can't get the elderly or the military to vote for them, I think that leaves carnies and pro wrestling fans as their main supporters.

Edit: to be clear, I didn't mean to include you among those "tossing the number" around.

Yeah, according to the Tax Policy Center (http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2012/09/18/the-data-behind-romneys-47-comments/),


of the 38 million households that are made nontaxable by tax expenditures, “44% are moved off the tax rolls by elderly tax benefits and another 30% by credits for children and the working poor.”

...which certainly keeps with Romney's whole "fuck the poor" mantra. But as mentioned earlier, Sir Mittensburg is probably one of the folks not paying federal income taxes, making this doubly ironic.

Shenanigans
19-09-2012, 03:11 PM
W


Too bad most of those states will vote Republican no matter what. Damn you, electoral college!

Disenfranchising anyone who doesn't live in a metropolis would be a much better system. It's not like farmers produce anything of value anyway. Derp.

Kodeen
19-09-2012, 04:31 PM
Disenfranchising anyone who doesn't live in a metropolis would be a much better system. It's not like farmers produce anything of value anyway. Derp.

If we abolished the electoral college and went for a straight popular vote, how would that favor urbanites? Ruralites wouldn't be competing with urbanites for the fate of their vote since the state level wouldn't matter anymore. Your concern is still valid in the Senate and, to a lesser extent, the House, but a popular Presidential vote would be much better than what we have now.

Nalano
19-09-2012, 04:43 PM
If we abolished the electoral college and went for a straight popular vote, how would that favor urbanites? Ruralites wouldn't be competing with urbanites for the fate of their vote since the state level wouldn't matter anymore. Your concern is still valid in the Senate and, to a lesser extent, the House, but a popular Presidential vote would be much better than what we have now.

It would favor urbanites because there are more of them. The whole point of the electoral college was to disenfranchise those unwashed papist masses in favor of landed gentry, playing into the political wishes of certain Virginia planters.

trjp
19-09-2012, 06:14 PM
This guy. When he expresses his actual beliefs, it has the effect of a gaffe. His positions are gaffes, essentially. There's been a consistent string of them all summer long.

As someone smarter that I said on Twitter - the thing is, he's making these gaffes when he's composed and able to take his time and say what he likes.

What the hell would he be like in a situation which is stressed or demands quick thinking?!!

He's just a stooge of course - they all are - they are a front for the wealth which empowers them BUT worse still is that the only people who will be voting "for" Mitt Romney are his mum and his wife - everyone else will either be

a - voting for Obama
b - voting against Obama

so in some ways he could be anyone at all because he doesn't matter...

The fact is that the proper contenders for his 'job' are all holding back because the economy is still in the trash and they don't really want to take responsibility for it - they'll pop-up later when the worst of the shit has been swept-up and take 'responsibility' for the rest of it.

Nalano
19-09-2012, 06:26 PM
The fact is that the proper contenders for his 'job' are all holding back because the economy is still in the trash and they don't really want to take responsibility for it - they'll pop-up later when the worst of the shit has been swept-up and take 'responsibility' for the rest of it.

I still find it funny how "sober economist" Paul Ryan and "rational businessman" Mitt Romney's plans can still be boiled down to "no, really, trust us..."

But as Chris Rock said, "If you vote against Obama because he can't get stuff done, it's kind of like saying 'this guy can't cure cancer, I'm gonna vote for cancer.'"

Shenanigans
19-09-2012, 06:31 PM
It would favor urbanites because there are more of them. The whole point of the electoral college was to disenfranchise those unwashed papist masses in favor of landed gentry, playing into the political wishes of certain Virginia planters.

Hurr durr, expecting a union of states to give some power to all of the states is just so quaint, we should have just ceded political control to the northeast in the beginning so we could have the hoi polloi elect us more brilliant folks like this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg to spend the tax money saving us from the tyranny of large cups.

Nalano
19-09-2012, 06:50 PM
Hurr durr, expecting a union of states to give some power to all of the states is just so quaint, we should have just ceded political control to the northeast in the beginning so we could have the hoi polloi elect us more brilliant folks like this guy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Bloomberg to spend the tax money saving us from the tyranny of large cups.

What friendly woodland creature crawled up your butt and died?

ReV VAdAUL
19-09-2012, 09:13 PM
Large cups are pretty scary it must be said. Curse my small hands!


I love it when people toss that 47% number around. It's a correct figure, but in order for it to make much difference, you also have to believe that payroll tax, social security/medicare taxes, sales tax, and state income tax aren't "taxes."

The other best part is that at least 1 out of every 4 of the "47% people" who aren't paying Federal Income taxes are senior citizens (the Code exempts the bulk of social security benefits from income tax.) The other other best part is that a smaller, but just as vocal, portion of the "47%" are military members, whose income is normally exempt during wartime.

So if the GOP can't get the elderly or the military to vote for them, I think that leaves carnies and pro wrestling fans as their main supporters.

Edit: to be clear, I didn't mean to include you among those "tossing the number" around.

No worries, you make a lot of good points. Heck I'm glad you reminded me the statistic only applies to Federal income tax, so easy to fall into accidentally spreading their lies.