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View Full Version : The Dolphin Wii/Gamecube thread



mashakos
19-09-2012, 10:33 AM
This thread will serve one purpose: allow you to play your legally purchased Wii/Gamecube games using the best configuration for your system. This will be achieved through utlising the great hive mind: each member with a game, the emulator and some free time posts a video illustrating the performance they get on their system using a configuration which they must detail in their post. That way we can see how Wii or Gamecube games run on their systems, and even offer pointers on how to improve performance if they're struggling.
Looking at my collection, I just realised how good some of the titles were on the gamecube and more recently the Wii. If you've skipped over the last two nintendo consoles, yet you like weird/quirky games or just enjoy a game where gameplay is king, you might be convinced to look for some of the titles shown here. Then play them on your PC of course! There's a long process involved in ripping a Wii game and especially a gamecube game (sigh!), so as long as you have the right intentions and buy the actual discs, I'm not going to be anal about the source of the rip.


I'll start with Super Mario Galaxy on Dolphin 3.0 (configuration and specs in video description)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=537cmFuolNw

frightlever
19-09-2012, 11:56 AM
The sad thing is, I think he's serious.

mashakos
19-09-2012, 12:25 PM
The sad thing is, I think he's serious.

wtf........?

mashakos
19-09-2012, 03:24 PM
A few Gamecube games.

F-Zero GX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DmA_fOiLJMM

MGS Twin Snakes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C5ykSC-kvXk

SoulCalibur II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAq8gjcLD5s

mashakos
25-09-2012, 09:54 PM
Managed to upload a few more titles. After a very helpful thread over at the Dolphin forums, I got a great tip that allows LLE audio to run smoothly. FINALLY! It's been bugging me for a while...

Super Mario Galaxy with LLE audio fix (config in description)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7jOx1Ib_vqs

Metroid other M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WwsLJdu5ow0

Any requests? The most recent addition to my Wii collection is The Last Story. You can see my collection of games at the beginning of each video - I open up dolphin and select which game to play from the EMU's list.

If you need tips on how to play Wii titles with a standard controller let me know. I play all these games with a Logitech F710 and Pinnacle Game Profiler.

Henke
25-09-2012, 10:05 PM
Is Super Mario Galaxy playable with a 360 gamepad, or will I need to somehow hook up one of those wiimote things to my PC if I'd want to play it?

Edit: oops, skimmed over your last post. Suppose it is doable then, though I'm guessing it'll take some tweaking.

mashakos
25-09-2012, 10:16 PM
Is Super Mario Galaxy playable with a 360 gamepad, or will I need to somehow hook up one of those wiimote things to my PC if I'd want to play it?
EDIT: OH! Forgot to answer your question. Super Mario Galaxy and it's sequel are entirely playable using a 360 pad and a keyboard/mouse emulator like Pinnacle Game Profiler. Joy2Key will not work because it does not emulate mouse to analogue stick.


Let me break it down:
- Buttons and analogue sticks on the Wiimote and nunchuck are no issue - you can configure them directly in Dolphin
- Tilt/swing inputs are also easy to setup in Dolphin. There's a nice touch in Dolphin where you can configure holding a button while moving one of the sticks to simulate tilting or swinging the wiimote. Another nice touch is holding the button while moving the moudse to simulate the Wiimote pointer. If the button to hold is not pressed, Dolphin automatically indicates to the game that the "wiimote" is held sideways. Really useful for games like Metroid Other M.

Here's where things stumble: the wiimote pointer can only be correctly simulated using the mouse. You can assign an analogue stick to simulate the pointer motion, but Dolphin's implementation is useless - the pointer centers every time you let go of the stick. So mouse is the only practical form of input.

My workaround: use Pinnacle Game Profiler to assign mouse movement to the right analogue stick. That way I get perfect pointer motion in Dolphin.

So yes, with a proper gamepad to mouse/keyboard emulator you can use an xbox 360 gamepad for practically 99% of the Wii's game library. I say 99% because some games simple can't be played without a Wiimote: Silent Hill Shattered Memories being a prime example. You can use all the motion controls in that game, but it uses the Wiimote speaker in a way that makes the game unplayable if it's not present.
Also, any game that uses Wii motion Plus will not work without a Wiimote Plus controller - Dolphin devs have stated they will not add Wii motion Plus emulation. So Wii Sports Resort and Zelda Skyward Sword are out of the question.

Heliocentric
25-09-2012, 10:26 PM
I'd love to get Double agent wii/gamecube working but i think its not possible.

mashakos
25-09-2012, 10:33 PM
I'd love to get Double agent wii/gamecube working but i think its not possible.

Seriously? PC version not good enough for you? Just curious :)

gundato
25-09-2012, 10:50 PM
The PC version of double agent isn't good enough for anyone.

And I would suggest not doing a thread like this. The instructions are in a grey area. Anything more than a config file (and even that, possibly) will be a VERY dark grey area (Like the youtubes that explain how to torrent stuff and pretend they are legal by saying "Search for X on Pirate Bay"). And either way, this really sends the wrong message and encourages people to go beyond the grey into the black.

mashakos
25-09-2012, 11:02 PM
The PC version of double agent isn't good enough for anyone.

And I would suggest not doing a thread like this. The instructions are in a grey area. Anything more than a config file (and even that, possibly) will be a VERY dark grey area (Like the youtubes that explain how to torrent stuff and pretend they are legal by saying "Search for X on Pirate Bay"). And either way, this really sends the wrong message and encourages people to go beyond the grey into the black.

I disagree. I think it's sad that emulation is associated with piracy. It's an area where the PC as a platform is strongest, and it adds incredible value to your humble machine. Not only does it keep your old console discs from being obsolete, you can actually play these games at a quality that's higher than the original consoles could provide - to the point that emulated PS2 titles outshine "HD" remakes on the PS3. Not to mention the fact that you now have access to thousands of games you potentially missed when they were released.
Just because pirated versions of console games are out there, does it mean that any discussion on the subject is a free pass to pirate?

Honestly, I think that purchasing a console game specifically to play it on a desktop or laptop PC adds to the experience. Some people go so far as to buy USB peripherals that allow them to directly load old school cartridges (http://www.retrode.org/about/). At a hefty premium I might add.

gundato
25-09-2012, 11:13 PM
I disagree. I think it's sad that emulation is associated with piracy. It's an area where the PC as a platform is strongest, and it adds incredible value to your humble machine. Not only does it keep your old console discs from being obsolete, you can actually play these games at a quality that's higher than the original consoles could provide - to the point that emulated PS2 titles outshine "HD" remakes on the PS3. Not to mention the fact that you now have access to thousands of games you potentially missed when they were released.
Just because pirated versions of console games are out there, does it mean that any discussion on the subject is a free pass to pirate?

Honestly, I think that purchasing a console game specifically to play it on a desktop or laptop PC adds to the experience. Some people go so far as to buy USB peripherals that allow them to directly load old school cartridges (http://www.retrode.org/about/). At a hefty premium I might add.

Because everyone is going to go buy all those thousands of titles :p. Especially considering that many of them are either impossible to grab or prohibitively expensive to get.

Sure there might be legal ways to do it. But most people won't be doing it legally, so you are just promoting piracy. Its like back when people used to use invasive DRMs like Starforce as an excuse for piracy. "Oh, we are just making the game better by sharing cracks", except that most of the people posting were the same ones who said "I will never buy a Starforce title".

At the very least: People associated emulation of console games with piracy (whether you feel they should or shouldn't). So rather than having to remind everyone with every post to "only do this if you own a legal copy" (you know, like the nfo files that come with warez :p), why not just leave this to a different board? It attracts a bad element and is just BEGGING for someone to (accidentally) cross the line.

Also, do the recent Nintendo consoles even use "normal" CDs? I think the Gamecube had mini-cds or something? So people can't even make their own legal backup copies and are dependent on piracy.

mashakos
25-09-2012, 11:54 PM
Sure there might be legal ways to do it. But most people won't be doing it legally, so you are just promoting piracy.
That's a strange argument. Are you saying that if someone posts a tweak guide online for a PC game, they are promoting PC game piracy? It certainly helps PC game piracy if more people can figure out how to tweak PC games to run on their systems.


At the very least: People associated emulation of console games with piracy (whether you feel they should or shouldn't). So rather than having to remind everyone with every post to "only do this if you own a legal copy" (you know, like the nfo files that come with warez :p), why not just leave this to a different board? This sounds to me like a canned response to anything emulation related.
Am I outlining any method of downloading pirated copies online? Any mention of encryption removal? Nothing in my configuration guides can help you in obtaining a particular game or even running it. You have to first be able to load and run the game in the respective emulator first before being able to use the tweak guides I am sharing here.


Also, do the recent Nintendo consoles even use "normal" CDs? I think the Gamecube had mini-cds or something? So people can't even make their own legal backup copies and are dependent on piracy.
In the vein of not "promoting piracy", I will not describe how it's done. I will say that as long as you own the original discs and have access to the respective consoles, there is absolutely no excuse to pirate Wii and Gamecube games. That specifically means downloading them off a torrent site.
Another reason I feel that this is a canned response:

Because everyone is going to go buy all those thousands of titles :p. Especially considering that many of them are either impossible to grab or prohibitively expensive to get

Used Gamecube (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=f+zero+gx) games (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-SMASH-BROS-MELEE-GAME-NINTENDO-GAMEGUBE-WII-/170915003373?pt=UK_PC_Video_Games_Video_Games_JS&hash=item27cb53fbed) are (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Resident-Evil-MISSING-MANUAL-/110937454432?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item19d4633760) cheaper (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Gear-Solid-Twin-Snakes-Nintendo-GameCube-2004-/120987361878?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c2b68a256) than retail PS3/xbox 360 titles. Wii titles are available right now, what's hindering anyone from purchasing them?

Again, not denying you have a point - any helpful guide will help pirates. That's what guides are supposed to do, help people (some of whom might be pirates). I however don't feel that people like me, who buy console games legally, should be handicapped and be left in the dark because of the pirates.

I will say this - if the thread devolves into posts by new users asking about game downloads, and things escalate out of control, I will ask the thread be closed. I would hate it, but if there is no alternative, I will accept it.

Heliocentric
26-09-2012, 12:10 AM
Seriously? PC version not good enough for you? Just curious :)

The wii, PlayStation 2, gamecube and original xbox version was made by Montreal, the next gen and pc version was made by Shanghai (the B team)

mashakos
26-09-2012, 12:20 AM
The wii, PlayStation 2, gamecube and original xbox version was made by Montreal, the next gen and pc version was made by Shanghai (the B team)

interesting. In any case, if you aren't trolling, and if you have the Wii version, and if you are really interested in playing it on your pc .... post your pc specs, list the issues you're facing, and I can help :)

gundato
26-09-2012, 12:21 AM
That's a strange argument. Are you saying that if someone posts a tweak guide online for a PC game, they are promoting PC game piracy? It certainly helps PC game piracy if more people can figure out how to tweak PC games to run on their systems.
I think if your "tweak guide" involves the phrase "Go to Warez Site X and get a crack" it is promoting piracy (The Witcher 2's initial retail release ran like ass).
I think if your solution is "Go pirate the CD version, the DVD doesn't work" it is promoting piracy (I forget which way, but one release of The Bard's Tale works, the other doesn't. I had to do this)


This sounds to me like a canned response to anything emulation related.
Am I outlining any method of downloading pirated copies online? Any mention of encryption removal? Nothing in my configuration guides can help you in obtaining a particular game or even running it. You have to first be able to load and run the game in the respective emulator first before being able to use the tweak guides I am sharing here.
The thing about "canned responses" is that they exist because said response applies quite often.
I haven't watched yours, but I have seen PLENTY of youtube videos on the subject that all promote piracy. So even if you yourself are perfectly legal, it is encouraging jackassery.


In the vein of not "promoting piracy", I will not describe how it's done. I will say that as long as you own the original discs and have access to the respective consoles, there is absolutely no excuse to pirate Wii and Gamecube games. That specifically means downloading them off a torrent site.
Another reason I feel that this is a canned response:

Used Gamecube (http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=f+zero+gx) games (http://www.ebay.com/itm/SUPER-SMASH-BROS-MELEE-GAME-NINTENDO-GAMEGUBE-WII-/170915003373?pt=UK_PC_Video_Games_Video_Games_JS&hash=item27cb53fbed) are (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Resident-Evil-MISSING-MANUAL-/110937454432?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item19d4633760) cheaper (http://www.ebay.com/itm/Metal-Gear-Solid-Twin-Snakes-Nintendo-GameCube-2004-/120987361878?pt=Video_Games_Games&hash=item1c2b68a256) than retail PS3/xbox 360 titles. Wii titles are available right now, what's hindering anyone from purchasing them?
Nifty. My interests are more along the Sony lines (never been huge on Nintendo games outside of the 2d Zelda and Metroids). Doesn't make a difference though, judging by the excuses people have pulled out of their asses in the other threads.


Again, not denying you have a point - any helpful guide will help pirates. That's what guides are supposed to do, help people (some of whom might be pirates). I however don't feel that people like me, who buy console games legally, should be handicapped and be left in the dark because of the pirates
Again, you might be perfectly awesome. This encourages jackasses who might not be as moral/intelligent/helpful to just make youtubes like "How to download battlefield 1942 from The Pirate Bay"


I will say this - if the thread devolves into posts by new users asking about game downloads, and things escalate out of control, I will ask the thread be closed. I would hate it, but if there is no alternative, I will accept it.
Why bother waiting? Based on the responses, there isn't a huge demand for this. It also isn't "really" PC gaming (unless you are going to pretend all GBA games are PC games :p), so it is off topic. And it is just begging for idiocy (we already have the people who feel the need to "rebel" by posting links to cracks and crack-sites in the DRM/piracy threads).

If you really want to share your skills with the world, make a blog. If you really want to discuss this with like-minded gamers, find a forum dedicated to this.
I love tabletop gaming and comic books, but I don't talk about those here (outside of random references :p).

This reminds me of something my father told me when I was in my late teens: Just because you know how to heat up the charcoal without setting the lawn or the porch on fire doesn't mean you shouldn't put the damned chimney starter on the pavement instead of the porch.

Or, if you would prefer, what a friend told me the other day: Just because you can use a model rocket kit and an engine to send a dildo into the upper atmosphere doesn't mean you should.
(note: We actually ended up deciding to do it, but in a different state and somewhere we can run away in case a kid finds the dildo as it descends to the earth by parachute)

Heliocentric
26-09-2012, 12:48 AM
interesting. In any case, if you aren't trolling, and if you have the Wii version, and if you are really interested in playing it on your pc .... post your pc specs, list the issues you're facing, and I can help :)

my disc drive flat out cant see the wii version. Apparently i need one of a range of samsung drives that can see wii discs? I have a Coreduo at 2.4 and only 2GB ram (I KNOW), it was meant to be a temporal ram setup but it survived because most everything runs well enough.

Finicky
26-09-2012, 12:59 AM
The PC version of double agent isn't good enough for anyone.

And I would suggest not doing a thread like this. The instructions are in a grey area. Anything more than a config file (and even that, possibly) will be a VERY dark grey area (Like the youtubes that explain how to torrent stuff and pretend they are legal by saying "Search for X on Pirate Bay"). And either way, this really sends the wrong message and encourages people to go beyond the grey into the black.

Gota sell those HD remakes, better put a stigma on emulators ...

SMH

Dolphin is a beautiful thing, a really impressive emulator especially since it has great gpu acceleration.
If I had a faster cpu I'd use it too.

@ op , I appreciate the effort, but these forums aren't active enough and have a tiny community, you won't find many people to post configs on here.
Neogaf has a large thread about dolphin, and as you said there are the official forums.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 01:03 AM
Why bother waiting? Based on the responses, there isn't a huge demand for this.
Could be because legally playing emulated games is so stigmatised people are hesitant to join in on the conversation? ;)


It also isn't "really" PC gaming (unless you are going to pretend all GBA games are PC games :p)You're making way too many generalisations in your comments. You might feel that "PC Gaming" equates to MMOs and Diablo clones, but I am a PC gamer who enjoys single player games primarily. If I can purchase a Timesplitters 2 or Shadow of the Colossus DVD and run it on my PC, that is "PC Gaming" at its best in my books.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 01:06 AM
I have a Coreduo at 2.4 and only 2GB ram (I KNOW)Core Duo?? I hoped you weren't trolling. and I thought you were my friend :(

deano2099
26-09-2012, 01:11 AM
So yes, with a proper gamepad to mouse/keyboard emulator you can use an xbox 360 gamepad for practically 99% of the Wii's game library. I say 99% because some games simple can't be played without a Wiimote: Silent Hill Shattered Memories being a prime example. You can use all the motion controls in that game, but it uses the Wiimote speaker in a way that makes the game unplayable if it's not present.

What does it do? Have always been tempted by that game but do all my gaming with headphones so even on an actual Wii that'd be an issue. Most Wii games re-direct the Wiimote speaker to the main sound output if you mute it though (which is an example of wonderful, customer-centric design).



Also, do the recent Nintendo consoles even use "normal" CDs? I think the Gamecube had mini-cds or something? So people can't even make their own legal backup copies and are dependent on piracy.

You need a hacked Wii basically, which is the grey area. Though it's a softmod so I hacked mine for funsies and the fact that you can then hook an external USB drive up to it and store your entire game library on it, which is quite cool. To emulate you then just hook that drive up the PC instead. Or you can share it over the network.

Xenoblade Chronicles looks like ass on the Wii itself, but is beautiful on a PC - http://screenshotcomparison.com/comparison/75487 - and it has no motion controls, there's even a mod that replaces the button prompts with 360 buttons. One of the best PC RPGs of the year to be honest. Just a shame it's not a PC game.

Finicky
26-09-2012, 01:12 AM
You're making way too many generalisations in your comments. You might feel that "PC Gaming" equates to MMOs and Diablo clones, but I am a PC gamer who enjoys single player games primarily. If I can purchase a Timesplitters 2 or Shadow of the Colossus DVD and run it on my PC, that is "PC Gaming" at its best in my books.

Just ignore him man... You post actual content, all he does 90 percent of the time is derail threads and argue for the sake of it because he has a semantics boner.

PC is an open platform, anything you play on it is pc gaming.

Rauten
26-09-2012, 01:19 AM
There's one thing that does easily deviate into illegality, unless things have changed; in order to emulate a system, aren't you supposed to own it?

For example, I remember back when I tried to emulate PS1 that almost everywhere it was warned that in order to legally have a PS1 Bios in my PC, I had to actually own the system.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 01:20 AM
What does it do? Have always been tempted by that game but do all my gaming with headphones so even on an actual Wii that'd be an issue. Most Wii games re-direct the Wiimote speaker to the main sound output if you mute it though (which is an example of wonderful, customer-centric design).
There's a neat mechanic in the game where you get a "phone call" on your wiimote (it starts ringing), and you pick up the call by bringing the wiimote to your ear. It's kind of gimmicky but very clever. I guess it can be simulated in Dolphin (haven't checked), but turning that cool feature into a combination of button presses seems... sterile somehow.


Just ignore him man... You post actual content, all he does 90 percent of the time is derail threads and argue for the sake of it because he has a semantics boner.

PC is an open platform, anything you play on it is pc gaming.Exactly! Thanks for the heads up.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 01:27 AM
There's one thing that does easily deviate into illegality, unless things have changed; in order to emulate a system, aren't you supposed to own it?

For example, I remember back when I tried to emulate PS1 that almost everywhere it was warned that in order to legally have a PS1 Bios in my PC, I had to actually own the system.

Yes, if the emulator requires a bios you definitely need to own the original console. If however, the emulator does not require or contain the console's BIOS (or any code that needs to be dumped from the actual console), you are not legally required to own the console. This right was hard won by the Bleem! developers in court, shortly before they went bankrupt due to huge legal fees...
This partly applies to Dolphin - you don't need to dump a BIOS to run games on it, but you do need to dump the audio ROM files to get accurate audio emulation. What this means - you can own Super Mario Galaxy and play it legally without owning a Wii, but you won't hear any music while playing :)
but seriously, a Wii costs about the same price as 3 retail games. Who doesn't own one?

Hypernetic
26-09-2012, 02:11 AM
This is cool, I didn't even know they had an emulator for the Wii. I might have to try it out at some point when I'm not lazy.

That said, emulation is definitely a topic worthy of a "PC gaming" discussion board.

Rauten
26-09-2012, 02:46 AM
If however, the emulator does not require or contain the console's BIOS (or any code that needs to be dumped from the actual console), you are not legally required to own the console. This right was hard won by the Bleem! developers in court, shortly before they went bankrupt due to huge legal fees...

Oh man, Bleem; now I'm all nostalgic. Had no idea about that particular court battle, though, interesting stuff.
If that's the case I might at some point emulate the GC so that some day, maybe, I'll finally finish, after so many bloody years, the story mode for PSO Episode III.

gundato
26-09-2012, 01:47 PM
Well, apparently there is some demand. So while still not really PC gaming, whatever.

I still think this is going to lead toward jackassery (well-intentioned or warez-friendly) though. If only because apparently you can only play cut-down versions of the games without legally owning a console (but, of course, everyone will go buy the consoles so they can play on their PCs... yup. Just like everyone at Warez Site X is just getting a "legal backup" :p), but as long as nobody starts linking to roms it is just dark grey, not outright black.

I still don't think there is any reason to even go into the grey area, but if everyone else wants to, feel free.

Berzee
26-09-2012, 02:26 PM
Is it just the Wii that needs BIOS stuff, or the Gamecube too? I have never beaten Tales of Symphonia, and now I've moved so the cube itself is probably stowed away somewhere (and I don't have a TV to easily hook it up to) -- but a many-hours game like Tales of Symphonia might actually get beaten (haha, who am I kidding?) if I was playing it my comfy laptop chair.

db1331
26-09-2012, 02:27 PM
I thought about setting this up so I could play Okami in HD. Then right around the same time, they announced Okami HD for the PS3. I'll just grab it there.

Rauten
26-09-2012, 02:28 PM
I still don't think there is any reason to even go into the grey area, but if everyone else wants to, feel free.

I own a GameCube and PSO Episode III. But I don't currently have a TV in my room, plus I'd rather play on my computer. If you need proof, I can take pictures later tonight when I'm back home.

Also, it seems you haven't read that you don't need to own a console unless you require to download and use a BIOS file or similar.

So please, stop crying "wolf" just for the sake of it.


Is it just the Wii that needs BIOS stuff, or the Gamecube too? I have never beaten Tales of Symphonia, and now I've moved so the cube itself is probably stowed away somewhere (and I don't have a TV to easily hook it up to) -- but a many-hours game like Tales of Symphonia might actually get beaten (haha, who am I kidding?) if I was playing it my comfy laptop chair.

If you own a GC system, no matter what dark corner it's tucked in, you can legally download and use a BIOS file, no biggie.

deano2099
26-09-2012, 02:28 PM
Well, apparently there is some demand. So while still not really PC gaming, whatever.

I still think this is going to lead toward jackassery (well-intentioned or warez-friendly) though. If only because apparently you can only play cut-down versions of the games without legally owning a console (but, of course, everyone will go buy the consoles so they can play on their PCs... yup. Just like everyone at Warez Site X is just getting a "legal backup" :p), but as long as nobody starts linking to roms it is just dark grey, not outright black.

I still don't think there is any reason to even go into the grey area, but if everyone else wants to, feel free.

A hell of a lot people have Wii's sat unused under the TV. And hell of a lot of people on here don't buy all the PC games they talk about. In which case that's a 'grey' area too. Let's not talk about PC games anymore.

gundato
26-09-2012, 02:33 PM
A hell of a lot people have Wii's sat unused under the TV. And hell of a lot of people on here don't buy all the PC games they talk about. In which case that's a 'grey' area too. Let's not talk about PC games anymore.
Oy... I am just going to say this: There is a reason emulation is associated with warez.

And discussing playing emulated games is a grey area by virtue of "It isn't really PC gaming"
Discussing HOW to play emulated games is a "dark grey" area by virtue of "It is assuming you already have grabbed materials you probably don't legally have". Especially since you apparently have to hack your console to get those roms in the first place?

But, like I said, if there is a clear demand (and there is), let people discuss it. We have the jackasses in the other threads who feel the need to brag about how they pirate games all the time. I would just personally prefer it if we at least let threads devolve into "this is kind of a legal grey area" rather than starting in it...



I own a GameCube and PSO Episode III. But I don't currently have a TV in my room, plus I'd rather play on my computer. If you need proof, I can take pictures later tonight when I'm back home.

Also, it seems you haven't read that you don't need to own a console unless you require to download and use a BIOS file or similar.

So please, stop crying "wolf" just for the sake of it.
And according to previous posts in this very thread, you need to dump the audio files to get sound for a lot of games...

Rauten
26-09-2012, 02:37 PM
And according to previous posts in this very thread, you need to dump the audio files to get sound for a lot of games...

1)That seems to be specifically for Wii emulation, not GC.

2)If you own the system and the game, do you honestly believe that it's illegal, or that Nintendo gives a flying crapolia?

gundato
26-09-2012, 02:44 PM
1)That seems to be specifically for Wii emulation, not GC.

2)If you own the system and the game, do you honestly believe that it's illegal, or that Nintendo gives a flying crapolia?
1) Dolphin Wii Gamecube thread. Just saying :p

2)
The former: Yes. A stupid law is still a law. Jay walking is illegal, but nobody gives a rat's ass unless a cop needs to meet a quota or you are causing a disruption of traffic.
The latter: Outside of randomly making an example out of someone, no. And even then, Nintendo would pretend they don't care and let lawyers (are they part of the ESA?) do it for them. Gotta avoid bad publicity.

Example: I personally don't see anything wrong with grabbing "less than legal" digital archives of the comics I buy as TPBs. It lets me minimize wear and tear on my TPB and I get to read the letter sections/recap pages (a good 20% of the fun of PAD's x-factor is the recap page). But it is still illegal and I am not going to go discussing that on every comic book forum under the sun. Why? Because it is in that grey area. But more importantly, because other jackasses might not understand the distinction between "What filters are good for making a scan of a golden-age book more readable?" and "Where can I find those golden age scans?"

db1331
26-09-2012, 02:51 PM
While we are talking Wii, I recently started playing through Skyward Sword on Hero Mode (NG+). It's pretty weak as far as NG+ goes. It pretty much just increases the damage you take, and decreases heart drops. However, I am enjoying it MUCH more than I did my first time through the game, for the simple fact that most NPCs now say "Oh, I see you are playing on Hero Mode, so I don't need to explain this to you" instead of going into some 3 minute tutorial about shit I already know. It's almost exactly like what I wanted the game to be on my first time through.

Rauten
26-09-2012, 03:00 PM
2)
The former: Yes. A stupid law is still a law. Jay walking is illegal, but nobody gives a rat's ass unless a cop needs to meet a quota or you are causing a disruption of traffic.

The Bleem! (Old ass PS1 emulator) court case:


Sony lawsuit

Two days after Bleem! started taking preorders for their emulator, Sony (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony) filed suit against them alleging that they were violating their rights and that providing access for PlayStation games to run on non-Sony hardware constituted unfair competition.
Ultimately Bleem! won in court and a protective order was issued to "protect David from Goliath".[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bleem!#cite_note-company-0) Sony lost on all counts, including Bleem!'s use of screenshots of PlayStation games on its packaging. The court noted that Bleem!'s use of copyrighted screenshots was considered fair use and should be allowed to continue.
Despite the legal victories, the legal fees allegedly forced the company out of business. eBay (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EBay) auctions of some of the company's possessions were held soon after - including a huge library of worldwide game releases apparently used for compatibility testing.

Not only did they get court permission to run the emulator, they also got protection to sell it. They never managed to because the court expenses suckered them dry, but the court decission is still there.

gundato
26-09-2012, 03:05 PM
They got permission to run and sell the emulator, but my understanding of bleem was that it involved reading the actual (retail sold PSX) discs. In this case, that is not an option without a hacked wii/gamecube/whatever, right? Because of the weird-ass disc thing?

Rauten
26-09-2012, 03:13 PM
They got permission to run and sell the emulator, but my understanding of bleem was that it involved reading the actual (retail sold PSX) discs. In this case, that is not an option without a hacked wii/gamecube/whatever, right? Because of the weird-ass disc thing?

For Bleem, IIRC, you didn't need anything special. The only peculiarity of PS1 discs is that they were black. As in, the side that holds the data was pitch black, and not all CD readers could handle that, but a hell of a lot did. As long as your reader managed to read the discs, you were good to go.
I do think it required PS1 BIOS files, though.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 03:25 PM
I do think it required PS1 BIOS files, though.

Actually Bleem didn't need the Playstation's BIOS (the primary reason they won in court, since they were not "stealing" Sony intellectual property to run Playstation games). Bleem is similiar to WINE in that the playstation BIOS was emulated using black box testing and development methodologies.

gundato
26-09-2012, 03:29 PM
Yeah. My point is though that with Bleem you just had an emulator and you popped in the disc to play. I am pretty sure having to hack the console to dump the funky discs means a different court precedent would be required.

And if I recall correctly, weren't PS1 discs shiny? It was the PS2 that had black (CD?) and blue (DVD?) and shiny (really full DVD?).

sabrage
26-09-2012, 03:33 PM
weren't PS1 discs shiny? It was the PS2 that had black (CD?) and blue (DVD?) and shiny (really full DVD?).
No. PS1 and early-era PS2 games had black and blue-backed discs, respectively.

Rauten
26-09-2012, 03:35 PM
Yeah. My point is though that with Bleem you just had an emulator and you popped in the disc to play. I am pretty sure having to hack the console to dump the funky discs means a different court precedent would be required.

Well, I don't know in the US, but I'm quite certain it's legal to do so in the EU as long as you legally own the system and the game disc.


And if I recall correctly, weren't PS1 discs shiny? It was the PS2 that had black (CD?) and blue (DVD?) and shiny (really full DVD?).

My mind tells me it was PS1 discs that were black, but it's been so effin' long I can't really be sure. Lemme google it up...
"Discs were manufactured with a dark blue-colored plastic" Yeah seems it was the PS1 discs. Maybe they reused them for the few PS2 CD games, I guess?

Edit: Damnit, ninjaed.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 03:38 PM
2)
The former: Yes.
"hacking" any hardware for reasons that don't involve criminal practices (piracy, fraud, murder) only voids the hardware's warranty. You won't get hanged for it :)
I am really impressed that you feel like a citizen in an imaginary Goerge Orwell universe.

gundato
26-09-2012, 03:42 PM
Well, I don't know in the US, but I'm quite certain it's legal to do so in the EU as long as you legally own the system and the game disc.



My mind tells me it was PS1 discs that were black, but it's been so effin' long I can't really be sure. Lemme google it up...
"Discs were manufactured with a dark blue-colored plastic" Yeah seems it was the PS1 discs. Maybe they reused them for the few PS2 CD games, I guess?

Edit: Damnit, ninjaed.
Fair enough. Last time I even saw one of my PS1 discs was when I was debating if I cared enough to check if the PS3 can play PS1 discs (I didn't care enough :p).

Finicky
26-09-2012, 03:45 PM
Still shitting up the thread I see, no mod in sight when you need em.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 03:53 PM
Still shitting up the thread I see, no mod in sight when you need em.

lol, yeah.

The latest Gametrailers feature is very relevant to this thread (watch the second half):
http://www.gametrailers.com/videos/o3r0ec/annoyed-gamer-annoyed-gamer--bioware-departure---review-score-rant

gundato
26-09-2012, 05:06 PM
"hacking" any hardware for reasons that don't involve criminal practices (piracy, fraud, murder) only voids the hardware's warranty. You won't get hanged for it :)
I am really impressed that you feel like a citizen in an imaginary Goerge Orwell universe.

I bolded the key term there.
Again, it might be perfectly legal the way someone does it, but it gets into those grey areas because most of the people involved aren't doing that (at best, you can argue "the honor system"). And I suspect the bleem ruling probably had to do with not modifying the hardware and playing everything "as is".

Especially when you consider that something a lot of people used to do (not sure if they still do) was to rent games, copy them, and return them. I know that one of the rental chains near where I live actually refused to rent out PSP games because it was so easy to do that (pretty sure they went out of business anyway).


Still shitting up the thread I see, no mod in sight when you need em.
So having a discussion related to the topic at hand (and replying, because I was done with the thread before) is "shitting up the thread" but making personal attacks and contributing nothing isn't? Good to know.


And that's the last I'll reply to any personal attacks in this thread (preferably the whole board, but I don't have that willpower :p) so feel free to spout whatever garbage you want.

Vandelay
26-09-2012, 06:23 PM
Well, must admit that I have stepped into this so called 'dark grey' area. There is no Wii console tucked away in my house, but I do use Dolphin, along with a Wiimote. To clarify to everyone, although I think someone has already mentioned it, you do not need the console to make the required copies from the disc. You do need 1 of the very few disc drives that can read Wii discs though. Using this method is actually preferable, as the drive in the console is not designed for continuous reading and may become damaged.

The audio thing is new to me. I've not downloaded any bios files, unless they come with Dolphin and I've not had any audio issues. As I understand it, Dolphin uses no coding present in the Wii, so there is no requirement to own the console.

So far, I have played Goldeneye, Super Mario Galaxy and Zelda: Twilight Princess, each of which have been great. They have also all run pretty flawlessly at 1080p on my i5 2500k, 8GB RAM and HD6950 system. In fact, I have enjoyed these games so much that I have now put a pre-order in for the WiiU, which is looking like it is going to have a great lineup of games even at launch. This will be the first console I have ever owned too.

arccos
26-09-2012, 06:27 PM
Bleem was great. I may still have the install CD around somewhere for it. A quintessential Pyrrhic victory, and probably the reason there are no commercial console emulators available today.

I remember the first time I heard about UltraHLE, the first emulator for the then-current N-64. With all the talk about "high level emulation" making it remotely capable of running games, I thought it was some snake oil crap designed to distribute viruses. I had the same reaction to MP3s the first time I heard of them.

Robert
26-09-2012, 06:29 PM
I'd put Gamecube emulation in the same 'box' as using DOSBOX. DOS games are not for your machine (not just OS, also your machine), but no one complains about it. And honestly, dos games are pirated even more, but people use "abandonware" to try to talk things right.

To stop derailing the issue at hand:


I'm sitting between my (dualscreen) pc and my Wii. I have postponed playing Skyward Sword because right now I only have a shitty tv and I refuse to play it on there. I'm curious if I can get it to work on one of my pc screens. I will plow through your information, thanks for that.

auxout
26-09-2012, 06:48 PM
I actually use my pc to play Wii games. Bought one of the rare drives (only 15) you need to run the discs and everything. So no not everyone pirates the games.
Also Mario Galaxy looks absolutely beautiful in 1080p with AF. Shame the sounds is all bugged out, never did get that far because of it.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 07:08 PM
I actually use my pc to play Wii games. Bought one of the rare drives (only 15) you need to run the discs and everything. So no not everyone pirates the games.
Also Mario Galaxy looks absolutely beautiful in 1080p with AF. Shame the sounds is all bugged out, never did get that far because of it.

I finally figured out how to get audio running smoothly after a long journey. You can check one of my earlier posts for that. Will require owning the actual console and dumping the audio roms though, so might not be worth it if you don't already own a wii.

Splynter
26-09-2012, 08:03 PM
Last year, I was hundreds of Km away from my Gamecube and a certain wonderful game: Skies of Arcadia Legends. I really wanted to play through it again, so I decided to download a ROM and the Dolphin emulator to play. At the time, the emulation for that particular game was terrible, with graphics glitches and freezes all over the place, so I quickly gave up on it. Now that I'm reunited with my system and games, I have no need to emulate it, but I do wonder if the state of things has improved. I'm no expert on emulation, so I also wonder why exactly some games don't work as well as others. Any thoughts?

Heliocentric
26-09-2012, 08:06 PM
Also I intend to play Resident Evil 4 with a mouse (simulating a wii mote), something you cant do on the pc version.

mashakos
26-09-2012, 08:46 PM
Last year, I was hundreds of Km away from my Gamecube and a certain wonderful game: Skies of Arcadia Legends. I really wanted to play through it again, so I decided to download a ROM and the Dolphin emulator to play. At the time, the emulation for that particular game was terrible, with graphics glitches and freezes all over the place, so I quickly gave up on it. Now that I'm reunited with my system and games, I have no need to emulate it, but I do wonder if the state of things has improved. I'm no expert on emulation, so I also wonder why exactly some games don't work as well as others. Any thoughts?
Wii/Gamecube emulation was incrementally improving over the past 3 years, so SoA might have been one of those titles where you just weren't fortunate enough to catch at a time where it was playable in Dolphin. I personally haven't purchased the game, so not sure if it was that or just a configuration issue, but others seem to have better luck running it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afYet7uGT5w).

mashakos
26-09-2012, 08:52 PM
I bolded the key term there.
Again, it might be perfectly legal the way someone does it, but it gets into those grey areas because most of the people involved aren't doing that (at best, you can argue "the honor system"). And I suspect the bleem ruling probably had to do with not modifying the hardware and playing everything "as is".

and the boy cried wolf...

It's pretty clear that no one in this thread is interested in piracy, so your point is moot.

Hypernetic
26-09-2012, 09:41 PM
Why is everything always about piracy around here? Besides, pirates are cool, YAR HAR HAR!

gundato
26-09-2012, 09:42 PM
Why is everything always about piracy around here? Besides, pirates are cool, YAR HAR HAR!
Ninjas with medical degrees are cooler.

Hypernetic
26-09-2012, 10:12 PM
Ninjas with medical degrees are cooler.

Ninjas don't need medical degrees.

Rauten
26-09-2012, 10:21 PM
Ninjas don't need medical degrees.

It seems the joke is lost on you. Perhaps you should visit a doctor yourself. Maybe a luchador?

auxout
27-09-2012, 11:06 AM
I finally figured out how to get audio running smoothly after a long journey. You can check one of my earlier posts for that. Will require owning the actual console and dumping the audio roms though, so might not be worth it if you don't already own a wii.

I use my PC instead of a Wii. Have it hooked up to the TV and everything so no luck there.

mashakos
01-10-2012, 08:32 PM
I use my PC instead of a Wii. Have it hooked up to the TV and everything so no luck there.

Well this is interesting:
A user over at the Dolphin forums has reverse engineered the audio ROM files of the gamecube/Wii. So essentially, you can download and use these ROMS legally for perfect audio (the DSP LLE option in Dolphin) and not have to own a Wii. Nice!

More details in this thread:
http://forums.dolphin-emulator.com/showthread.php?tid=23103

OmegaApex
26-05-2013, 04:38 PM
Emulation in general is a grey area. Im sure this has been said and so shoot me down in flames for repeating myself. I'm a fan of it, I do it, and I do it legally in most instances. I might download the occasional game just to see what its like before I go and buy and I see nothing wrong with that. Why buy a game I will end up not liking? Try it first. Demo-ing etc. After which it gets deleted.

As far as how GameCube games work you can talk about it and not really have any effects regarding piracy, since it uses such an awkward process, people are likely to just go "f*ck that!" Basically, it uses "mini-dvd" size discs with a twist. Rather than start the data/content on the inner edge of the disc (the way 99% of optical media works) it starts on the outer edge of the disc and works inward towards the center. This already presents a problem for conventional disc drives in computers, which is probably partly why Nintendo did it. Other discs have also done things like this. The GD-ROM (Dreamcast) appears to most computer disc drives as an Audio CD, telling you to put it in a Dreamcast :P

I used Dolphin for a while, but when I wanted to play Starfox Adventures ... no go. The game just wouldn't run smoothly, it stuttered, the audio was horrible, and my PC is pretty capable; quad core, HD5750, 8GB ram. I configured the thing up the ass and it was just pointless. Nothing worked. I understand that SA has issues with emulation but there are videos out there of people running it smoothly. Other GameCube games run next to perfectly. Mario Kart, Time Splitters 2, SSB Melee. Even Wii games SSB Brawl, Mario Kart Wii and so on.

I picked up my Wii for 35 and I bought Starfox Adventures again. Honestly, I was just desperate to play it properly lol. I also hacked my Wii for funsies, and I install my Wii games to a 500GB hard drive and play them that way. GameCube games I still run from the Discs, they are nowhere near as noisy so it doesn't bother me, and there is virtually no loading time.

I still own my Mega Drive, I still own my N64, and I own my Wii (obviously) and I have all the games I own also on the PC. Has always been that way. I own those games.

The JG Man
07-06-2013, 09:28 PM
3410

As you can tell, need to play with the settings a bit more, but it does highlight just how god damn right they nailed that art style. It is/will be timeless. Gave it, Skies of Arcadia Legends, Super Mario Galaxy 2 and Sonic Colours a boot up. Played Sonic Colours for a bit and it was fine. Obviously need to sort out the resolution stuff. Thought I had done, but clearly haven't got it right. I think? Either way, mapping the Gamecube controller to a 360 pad was crazy easy and it works so well. I completely forgot Colours used the GC controller as an option, so that's a hard issue easily tackled.

I'm excited, I'll say that much. That and it felt super weird to use a 360 controller to control Link, but at least it's better than the DS Zelda games...

Internet
08-06-2013, 04:38 AM
I'm kinda curious to install custom firmware on my wii and give a Xenoblade rom a go. Until my fiancee won't kill me for bricking the wii (always a possibility), I guess I'll just give dolphin a try.

Moraven
09-06-2013, 05:39 AM
Holy crap, I wish had bought some more copies of Xenoblade. Great game, other than a little to much MMO like fetch quests. But the game generally gives you freedom to explore and try to discover everything. And the combat is fun.

Could always buy an used Wii system used to change the firmware.

Tei
10-06-2013, 02:18 PM
Xenoblade just look great in Dolphin in 1080p. But is a JRPG, you must be into that sort of thing.

Internet
10-06-2013, 05:20 PM
Xenoblade just look great in Dolphin in 1080p. But is a JRPG, you must be into that sort of thing.

I stopped playing JRPGs in the PS2 era, but I'm normally pretty fond of the SNES ones.

Vandelay
10-06-2013, 06:01 PM
Still yet to pick up Xenoblade for my Wii Tablet Edition. It is just so ridiculously expensive still! Currently 40 on Amazon. I think I've just been spoiled by the PC sales, but the lack of any price reduction on console games is just awful.

If anyone is looking for some good platforming games, I picked up Donkey Kong Country Returns and Mario Galaxy 2 the other day. Both are excellent. Although I enjoyed it, they make me realise just how mediocre New Super Mario Bros. U is.

Internet
10-06-2013, 10:18 PM
Still yet to pick up Xenoblade for my Wii Tablet Edition. It is just so ridiculously expensive still! Currently 40 on Amazon. I think I've just been spoiled by the PC sales, but the lack of any price reduction on console games is just awful.

If anyone is looking for some good platforming games, I picked up Donkey Kong Country Returns and Mario Galaxy 2 the other day. Both are excellent. Although I enjoyed it, they make me realise just how mediocre New Super Mario Bros. U is.

Xenoblade is $200 new, $100 used in US because it had a limited release. It is now a collectors item. Hence I have little problem with downloading a rom.

Anthile
13-06-2013, 11:30 AM
I tried to run Twin Snakes but the performance is very poor and the sound is incredibly choppy, regardless of the settings. What little information there is indicates that my rig might simply be too weak. Is this really such a big problem for gamecube emulation?

The JG Man
13-06-2013, 04:34 PM
The page on Twin Snakes (http://wiki.dolphin-emu.org/index.php?title=Metal_Gear_Solid:_The_Twin_Snakes) doesn't reveal anything too conclusive with requirements. The main thing with Dolphin is you need a good (dual-core at least) CPU with a high clock speed (anything over 3.0 will be fine, I think the minimum is 2.8). Depending on the back-end function, DX9/OpenGL/DX11 (pick one) might be better, so play around with that. It really does scale though; a system that can just about pull off Dolphin will not be able to do it well, but one that can run it well can really push it far.

Anthile
15-06-2013, 09:13 AM
Overclocked the CPU by 20%, set DSP to LLE and set the framelimit to audio. It's still not perfect but it is very much playable now. I am now playing the Gamecube remake of a PSX game on PC using a 360 gamepad. I am a wizard.

https://i.minus.com/jil360vlm6ICU.bmp
Quite the contrary.

https://i.minus.com/jbkeWQD2V3Hdhu.bmp
Obama, is that you?

https://i.minus.com/jrqiF2q4yhRn.bmp
Actual gameplay.

Heliocentric
15-06-2013, 08:32 PM
Just picked up monster hunter 3. Quite eager to have some waggle free fun with my classic controller pro.

Sketch
15-06-2013, 09:31 PM
Anthile, if you've not played the original, you should.

It's a shame there's no online mode for MH3, it'd be cool to play some 2 player.

Kaira-
15-06-2013, 10:04 PM
Anthile, if you've not played the original, you should.

Seconding this. The PSX-version is pretty much better in almost all the ways, except graphically. Also, because Twin Snakes has DMC-like cutscenes (spoilers):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DP29E9MljaE

Anthile
15-06-2013, 11:41 PM
Yeah, I actually own the original version but I just couldn't be bothered and I was interested to see what the Gamecube version is like. Yeah, the added cutscenes are insane. There is no other word for it. It's also the worst case of cutscene power to the max I have ever seen. In the game Snake throws grenades like a little girl only to lob one right into the barrel of a tank in a cutscene and it just goes from there. Every time a new cutscene draws near I just want to grab a bag of popcorn because I know something hilariously insane is going to happen. I can't wait until I get to the heli fight and, well, the final boss.

Sketch
16-06-2013, 12:03 AM
Prepare for a lot of backflips.

Xercies
16-06-2013, 01:00 AM
Didn't Twin Snakes kind of make the game a lot easier as well since the game wasn't designed with the new skills they added.

Got the Dolphin emulator myself. Super Mario Galaxy here I come.

Sketch
16-06-2013, 01:33 AM
Yeah they didn't redesign the game around the fact you can aim in first person, so things like the boss fight with Ocelot are a bit of a joke.

The JG Man
22-09-2013, 07:02 PM
4.0 (https://dolphin-emu.org/download) is now out and includes, amongst a variety of other things, large support for online multiplayer that allows you to play against people actually playing from their GC/Wii.

Dave L.
22-09-2013, 10:02 PM
WAT? How the hell did they manage to pull that off?

Moraven
23-09-2013, 03:55 AM
Does it work with Double Dash? If so will install it right away to try. (never got the broadband device for the gamecube)

Dave L.
23-09-2013, 06:32 AM
Looks like it's for Wii multiplayer. Which makes that they were able to do it even crazier, frankly.

The JG Man
23-09-2013, 04:42 PM
My apologies then. I had read around and was confident of seeing support for GC online structures, I was clearly mistaken. Apologies if I got anybody's hopes up! Either way, still incredible for sure.

Moraven
23-09-2013, 05:21 PM
https://dolphin-emu.org/docs/guides/netplay-guide/

They mention GameCube NetPlay beta in 3.5. But the only game I see mentioned is Super Smash Bros. vie NetPlay.

Ok, there are videos of 2010 showing Double Dash over LAN. I know people got Internet play to work with the GameCube adapter. (probably emulated LAN)

The missus has fond memories of 4 gamecubes hooked up in a LAN and people on duo Double Dash teams. We have one copy of Double Dash, but no adapter and 2 controllers. Curious to see if Dolphin would be a better look into than seeking 2 adapters