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TixyLixx
19-09-2012, 11:18 AM
I've tried to like it I really have but I made it to level 6 and I'm bored as hell. I'm not interested in if the game gets better at end level or whatever, it should be fun right away and to me it just looks and plays like WoW. Sure people are gonna moan and say it's nothing like it and point out some minor differences and claim WoW didn't invent MMOs, however it's the standard to compare all to right now.

You log in and do the same character creation crap like every MMO and then you get given the talk to this NPC quest which sends you to kill some mobs and then in GW2 you have a boss which then sends you to the main world. Once you're in the main world again you get given a quest which is like a linear story quest which looks like it'll link you from zone to zone as it has so far. The story is uninteresting, the comic book style cutscenes are boring and not needed and so I decided to ignore any further story quests.

The world is basically a linear layout like all themepark MMOs and you just follow a path until you get to end level. Which I'm already starting to see the first couple zones be empty like all level based MMOs with linear levels become. You have hearts to do which are basically standard kill 10 rats quests, I mean they're so boring and I wont be doing any of them. WoW has better quests even back in 2004, they had something to them, these hearts are literally mission terms in SWG Pre CU. Then you have other things on the map that you run to so you discover that area..... pretty boring stuff. You have these "dynamic" quests which aren't dynamic, they're on repeat and they always always involve killing waves of enemies.

The game is just so boring and repetitive, it's basically the same as every other MMO where everything involves grinding on mobs. People say the games so dynamic and different... it isn't, the games PVE is more boring than WoW's. I don't even play WoW any more, I pretty much gave up on that after Vanilla and dabbled in it once or twice since to see how much the quest content has evolved. I think the PVE in this game is a shambles, I hate how instanced it is and all the loading screens you go through. Most of the world is in the skybox or behind invisible walls, you feel too enclosed and not like you're in a world.

The game doesn't explain crafting what so ever so I have no interest in bothering with that. I loved crafting in SWG Pre CU, it was intuitive and I picked it up very quickly, however in GW2 it's so hidden gives you no hint, it's not intuitive at all. GW2 has no open world PVP, the PVE is all separate so it makes it even more boring. I'm not interested in battlegrounds, if I wanted to play small scale PVP I'd play a game with good combat like CS or something.

So the last option is this WvW stuff which is basically DAOC or WAR. Half the time I can never get in but when I am it involves lots of running because there are no mounts and it takes forever to get anywhere. I really do not understand why there are no mounts, someone said it's because they're unrealistic :\ Like this is a fantasy game and I'm pretty sure we have mounts in real life, such as horses or vehicles. It's basically 2 massive zergs fighting each other with one team that is doing so poorly you never see them. If you stray outside of the zerg you never find anyone anywhere else because there is nothing much to do on that map but collect boring supplies.


I really cannot see why this game is hailed as innovative, it's the same old shit but worse and the only up side is no subscription, however it does cost twice as much as normal games.

Kiril
19-09-2012, 11:32 AM
What race did you start as, may I ask? As you only made it to level 6, maybe try and different race and class combo?

Combat is different in GW2, you take a lot of damage if you don't move and dodge and thats one of the big differences. You can go to any area to fight, but if the mobs are 10 levels above you, you can't really damage them, so maybe flick over to another zone and see if you like the stuff better there.

At the early levels there is a bit too many defend against X number of waves, but there are plenty of "feed my cattle" and "water the crops" hearts dotted around. I think what people really like about the hearts is that there is usually 2 or 3 things to do to fill the heart.

In WvW its all about getting keeps and holding them, so thats where the zerg goes, if you stray off the path of the keeps then you won't find anyone because there is nothing to capture.

On another note, for large scale PvP, darkfall 2 will be on sale in November so you can wait for that if you

frightlever
19-09-2012, 11:48 AM
Race/profession combinations are irrelevant. I can list about fifty classic, much-loved games that I have tried and disliked (though granted, I didn't dislike them enough to write a provocative essay about them). Just because a lot of people are currently enjoying GW2 (myself included) doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you because you don't like it. There's nothing for you to "miss" or "not get". It's just not for you. Plenty of other games out there to enjoy. Don't sweat it. No-one will think any less of you.

Hopefully everyone who posts in thread will recognize your pain and offer you a virtual hug to get over your very real disappointment with the game. I'm sure we all agree there's no point in trying to convince you you're wrong. I can instinctively tell the depth of your feelings on the matter.

Screwie
19-09-2012, 11:54 AM
What race did you start as, may I ask? As you only made it to level 6, maybe try and different race and class combo?

This. Each class plays quite differently, some grab you quicker than others. Each race, while effectively identical mechanically, has a markedly different flavour and some are just not as broad in appeal as others. That applies to their starter zones too.

However level 6 is not really a fair shake. You don't have to level to 'endgame', but class functionality is unlocked at certain levels and no class is fully mature until level 30.

At level 7, most classes can begin weapon swapping. Get to level 10, then you have enough utilities to play with. If you get to level 20, you can finally start playing with major traits.

Alternatively if you would like to try the feel of each class before committing so much time to each, play in structured PvP where everything is unlocked for you already.

If you come away from that still not enjoying it, then maybe the game just isn't to your liking. It isn't the end of the world.

Kiril
19-09-2012, 11:57 AM
Race/profession combinations are irrelevant. I can list about fifty classic, much-loved games that I have tried and disliked

Same here, but the OP said he got to level 6 and was bored of it, so maybe the area he started in didn't grab him? The start areas are quite different story and feel wise.

If you still don't like it after that then cool, but you have already bought it, and its quite expensive so might as well try something

Mbaya
19-09-2012, 12:28 PM
Sounds like you're burned out of MMO's, like you've said, the game isn't innovate (well no, I think it very much is in terms of providing a fully fledged MMO without the monthly fee, but certainly not in terms of gameplay), its just got the next level of polish and accessability in the MMO world.

Contrary to popular belief (or at least what many comments/message boards attest to), many people like 'traditional' (I use that term loosely, being an Asheron's Call vet, hehe) MMORPG, Guild Wars 2 is very much more of the same with a different coat of paint.

Guild Wars 2 seems to be an effort to mix the modern day MMO with the 'living world' aspects of the golden oldies, personally, I love the fully realised lore and world, so much attention to detail crammed into every small nook and cranny. While character progression isn't quite what I'd like, I appreciate that there is a lot of hidden depth to the Traits system.

Combat is a little...average to me, not quite as actiony as Tera nor as open as Rift/WoW and their ilk, but its a nice middle point, while still taking that nod to the original game.

Crafting I actually enjoy though, I took to that easily - although I do find it a bit pointless given I expect so many people will just flood to a wiki to get recipies anyway. But I will add, crafting in pre-NGE SWG was amazing...best crafting system I've seen in a game imo.

To sum up, yeah, the game isn't for you - personally, I think its the best offering on the table as far as traditional MMORPG's go however, loads of content, loot, lore, great community, events, fluff, great set pieces and more. Its not perfect...I'm glad its not, gives me something to look forward to ;)

BobbyFizz
19-09-2012, 01:40 PM
What is so special about Guild Wars 2?

I'm guessing you just don't like the game which is fair enough, but I suggest playing with friends as you've put the effor into making such a long post about a game that you don't like. I've had a huge amount of fun with all aspects of the game, but playing with mates makes it 100% better.

Also regarding WvW travel times, the battles are eventually going to last 2 weeks, and guilds that hold the towers can upgrade them with waypoints, making the battle line move swifter forward.

Finicky
19-09-2012, 02:09 PM
I'm not interested in battlegrounds, if I wanted to play small scale PVP I'd play a game with good combat like CS or something.


Lol:p ZING :p

I've hit 80 on my character, crafted the exotic gear set, did 15 odd dungeon runs at 80 and played wvw with the guild and put some hours into every class in spvp and I can tell you nothing changes from what you've seen.

The questing and world is indeed the standard world and standard stuff dressed up as something different (a monkey in make up, but still a monkey)

As for crafting: it is the exact same affair as in wow , you combine gather mats + vendor mats + generic grinded monster mats to make preset gear, the only difference is that instead of choosing from a list you first have to choose the items yourself to 'find' 'hidden' (fixed) recipes for the first time you craft anything.
In practice it changes absolutely nothing about the mechanics and grind behind crafting.
There is the mystic forge but that is just a simple way to try to keep the material market in balance by letting you change any material / gear item in something else at a small loss in the long run. (+some added weapon skins also with fixed recipes)

There are dungeons but they are junk, I doubt anyone in the game will disagree on that one (I'm sure someone on this forum will, though).
They are extremely boring, partly thanks to the bad combat the game features.

As for WvW, it is indeed like warhammer, but worse.
Lots of warhammer wvw fans in my group of friends who have the game and they all agree the wvw in warhammer was better (which is sad because warhammer wvw is flawed (flaws shared by gw2 wvw... )
No mounts, pveing down gates, less elaborate teamwork (no tanks blocking at gates or chokepoints), spawnpoints that don't move to the smaller keeps you captured etc (which is apparently possible in the future, but right now it's total shit since the zone control aspect has no effect on gameplay or tactics), exceptionally poor framerates even with strong high end gpus and decent cpus.

Battlegrounds are the only place that are better than other games (combat aside), since you can play any class you want and gear is the same for everybody, but you make a very solid point about those yourself...

Anyhow, you are going to get a lot of shit in this thread for voicing your opinions and criticism , the peer pressure from the release marketing hype is still strong.
I stopped playing (not even a concious decision, just no reason to log in as there is no fun to be had gameplay wise so it's easy to move on) several days ago and the friends I played with haven't played in days either.

I feel sorry for the few in our group who fell for the hype and went in for the events and pve and wvw... all me and a buddy wanted out of it was the spvp (no gear grind for pvp and all) and we didn't even get out of that what we wanted, there not being any open world pvp doesn't help either.

There is one upside to the game's baffling initial popularity though, maybe other mmos in the future will decide to copy parts of it like the no grind no leveling requires gear equality battlegrounds.

edit: of course people come up with the dismissive arguments that the OP is sick of traditional mmos...
The people I played gw2 with are the same people I used to play wow with, and they LOVE traditional mmos.
They gobble that shit up like no tomorrow, they played and loved rift, they played and got world firsts in swtor, they played and loved warhammer for the wvw, they are giddy with anticipation for MoP (makes me shudder), yet they did not like gw2 at all...

And since you bring up polish;.. I didn't want to but I'm going to rebutt that one.
-the casting/ability animations for combat in pvp are inferior to wow (one of the only extremely good things about wow , good tells , and a flaw shared with warhammer and most other mmos)
-the dungeons are bad
-the underwater combat is terrible (again everyone in our guild in the game absolutely loathed the underwater combat, in spvp the underwater nodes are the only ones that often get ignored because noone wants to fight underwater, in pve mobs constantly bug and go invulnerable too)
It's a big part of the game so it's a real shame. They should have scrapped it when it turned out rubbish.
-performance is awful for a lot of people, anyone without a high end sandy bridge cpu gets awful framerates in zergs, big events and wvw (for no reason since the game isn't a looker and changing graphics settings does nothing for framerates)
-The story and voice acting...well I'm sure you understand this part, it's a special kind of awful and cringe inducing.
-combat is super shallow compared to other mmos (whose combat is also shallow already compared to other game genres)
-auction house didn't work at launch for 2 weeks, can't remember any other mmo in the past several years that launched without a functioning AH
-basic functions like trading, inspecting (especially with all the item skins the game has through crafting ), previewing items on the AH and dueling are not in the game at all.
This last one came as a surprise to many ingame, I've seen it asked about over and over and over in chat and guild chat in the early days.

No, polished this game is not.

Shenanigans
19-09-2012, 02:58 PM
"it does cost twice as much as normal games."

You paid 120$ for this game? No wonder you're disappointed.

Timofee
19-09-2012, 02:58 PM
I'll preface this by saying the game is far from without fault and there are some breathtakingly stupid game design decisions but I wanted to address a few points you raised


I've tried to like it I really have but I made it to level 6 and I'm bored as hell. I'm not interested in if the game gets better at end level or whatever, it should be fun right away and to me it just looks and plays like WoW. Sure people are gonna moan and say it's nothing like it and point out some minor differences and claim WoW didn't invent MMOs, however it's the standard to compare all to right now.

I'm not sure anyone would dispute that its very similar to WoW and 'classic' MMOs, except possibly their marketing department. All the coverage I've seen of it has pitched it very much as evolution rather than revolution of the genre.


You log in and do the same character creation crap like every MMO
To be fair the character creation - and I'm talking the visual aspects - is stronger than any other MMO I can think of. The personal choices were arguably over-hyped but they do have a tangible impact on your story.



The story is uninteresting, the comic book style cutscenes are boring and not needed and so I decided to ignore any further story quests.

This comment makes me think you would rather be playing a single player, story-driven game. There's absolutely nothing wrong with that, but I would question why you were hoping to find that in an MMO.

By their very nature you're never going to get a tightly scripted storyline in an MMO because of the amount of content they have to create, the complications of having truly impactful changes on the game world etc etc etc.

That's not to say it couldn't be better and indeed having played the story up to 60 so I can say its pretty terrible. Weakly plotted and scripted and in some places poorly voice acted.


The world is basically a linear layout like all themepark MMOs and you just follow a path until you get to end level.

I'm not sure I agree. Maybe it's because you're coming into it later but I found that following the various events, exploring interesting looking areas and even the jumping puzzles did a fantastic job at taking you off the beaten path and making it feel a lot less linear.

Clearly you'll hit brick walls in terms of mobs that are 10 levels higher than you meaning you can't go there, but there's plenty of content open to you from the get go.


You have hearts to do which are basically standard kill 10 rats quests, I mean they're so boring and I wont be doing any of them. WoW has better quests even back in 2004, they had something to them, these hearts are literally mission terms in SWG Pre CU. Then you have other things on the map that you run to so you discover that area..... pretty boring stuff. You have these "dynamic" quests which aren't dynamic, they're on repeat and they always always involve killing waves of enemies.

At this point it sounds like you have a downer on the game and are unwilling to like it, so fair nuff' I'd suggest moving on to something else.

From my own perspective I'm under no illusions about the hearts and that is what MMO quest design has to be like to a degree - and again here it sounds like you want a single player game. Where I like them over say wow is there is multiple ways to meet the objective, the few where it was restricted (I'm looking at you fucking feed the cows grubs heart) they were very frustrating.

Honestly I never read the WoW quest text ever so I can't speak to their story but in mechanics terms they were no different to GW2 and again it comes back to my thought that you want a single player game. Particularly if you were reading WoWs quest text, it sounds like you want to immerse yourself in the story - no bad thing - but again not convinced you'll ever find that in an MMO


The game is just so boring and repetitive, it's basically the same as every other MMO where everything involves grinding on mobs. People say the games so dynamic and different... it isn't, the games PVE is more boring than WoW's. I don't even play WoW any more, I pretty much gave up on that after Vanilla and dabbled in it once or twice since to see how much the quest content has evolved. I think the PVE in this game is a shambles

I'm not going to dispute your claim its repetitive - sure it is, after a while, anything is. Personally I found things like the jumping puzzles and events mean its slightly slower to become repetitive compared with other MMOs but what I will say, and thought about mentioning at the top of this post is:

For goodness sake play the game with friends!! The clue is in the genre, part of the whole fun is playing with friends and I don't mean the game mechanics necessarily become better with friends but simply - you are playing the game with your friends, y'know, the people you like spending time with...

Again, sorry to keep going back to it, but it sounds like you want to be playing a single player game.


I hate how instanced it is and all the loading screens you go through. Most of the world is in the skybox or behind invisible walls, you feel too enclosed and not like you're in a world.

Aside from the personal story which is instanced for obvious reasons, I could not disagree more, you'll be spending hours in one zone with no load screens and it, for me at least, did a great job of having a beautiful world I wanted to explore.


So the last option is this WvW stuff which is basically DAOC or WAR. Half the time I can never get in but when I am it involves lots of running because there are no mounts and it takes forever to get anywhere. I really do not understand why there are no mounts, someone said it's because they're unrealistic :\ Like this is a fantasy game and I'm pretty sure we have mounts in real life, such as horses or vehicles. It's basically 2 massive zergs fighting each other with one team that is doing so poorly you never see them. If you stray outside of the zerg you never find anyone anywhere else because there is nothing much to do on that map but collect boring supplies.

The queuing for WvW is taking the piss at times and needs to be improved upon - most obviously by having more areas that open up once the principal battlegrounds reach pop cap.

I also agree that the implementation leaves a lot to be desired but its kind of what you make of it - if you follow the zerg then sure its going to be boring but with the guild we've had some fun runs around ninja'ing things along with the abject terror of when the enemy zerg does find us. But again its about playing with friends.


There is the mystic forge but that is just a simple way to try to keep the material market in balance by letting you change any material / gear item in something else at a small loss in the long run. (+some added weapon skins also with fixed recipes)

Correction, the mystic forge is a positive black hole that aside from very careful, well researched use, is a bottomless pit into which you throw away your money ;P


There are dungeons but they are junk, I doubt anyone in the game will disagree on that one (I'm sure someone on this forum will, though).
They are extremely boring, partly thanks to the bad combat the game features.

Dungeons are terrible, with some truly questionable balancing and poor encounter design - I however think the combat is/can be fun its just the dungeons where it doesn't work. For the moment I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on these missteps on the basis its the first time trying without the trinity, hopefully it will improve with time. I mean consider how WoW's encounter mechanics have (mostly) improved over time.


Lots of warhammer wvw fans in my group of friends who have the game and they all agree the wvw in warhammer was better (which is sad because warhammer wvw is flawed (flaws shared by gw2 wvw... )
No mounts, pveing down gates, less elaborate teamwork (no tanks blocking at gates or chokepoints), spawnpoints that don't move to the smaller keeps you captured etc (which is apparently possible in the future, but right now it's total shit since the zone control aspect has no effect on gameplay or tactics)

There's a definite lack of tactics at the moment but I think its a good starting point that could be improved upon. Around the running everywhere its a clear design choice as to why they've done this as if you could get everywhere quickly then the zerg would become even more powerful. All major keeps can have a waypoint but it has to be built so now we're on weekly rotations their usage has/will become more important.


Anyhow, you are going to get a lot of shit in this thread for voicing your opinions and criticism , the peer pressure from the release marketing hype is still strong.

I would hope that within this community he will get plenty of well reasoned arguments as to why others hold a different opinion. Just because those opinions are contrary does not mean they have 'fallen to the hype' and I resent the implication.

Different strokes for different folks.


There is one upside to the game's baffling initial popularity though, maybe other mmos in the future will decide to copy parts of it like the no grind no leveling requires gear equality battlegrounds.

Baffling. Really? It's a game which broadly improved on a lot of features that people liked from other incredibly popular games.

CuriousOrange
19-09-2012, 03:21 PM
Anyhow, you are going to get a lot of shit in this thread for voicing your opinions and criticism , the peer pressure from the release marketing hype is still strong.

No, you are going to get criticisms from the arrogance of your opinions. Fair enough you didn't like it. But I don't enjoy it because of the pre release hype. I'm enjoying it, because I enjoy the game.

But one thing I completely agree with is that underwater combat is indeed terrible.

EDIT: Tim has said what I wanted to say much nicer above me.

duff
19-09-2012, 04:00 PM
Getting to level 6 in an mmo and concluding you don't like it is like having a fish finger and saying you don't like seafood.

BobbyFizz
19-09-2012, 04:21 PM
I like fish but not fish fingers and I do like guild wars 2.

Nalano
19-09-2012, 04:29 PM
Holy crap that's a lotta words.

Some random responses to things said:

"Like WAR RvR but worse" - WAR RvR's biggest problem was in having only two factions. WAR's fans still say "but I wanted more like DAoC," so I find it kinda funny how quickly those rose-tinted glasses come on.

"No tanks blocking chokepoints" - wait 'til you see people knocking down a keep's gate only to be murdered by ballistas set up by the defending players on the other side. Much lulz were had.

"Played to level six" - that's at most two hours. Even by modern manshoot standards, that's not even up to the Big Twist in the campaign.

Mbaya
19-09-2012, 04:30 PM
Just wanted to clarify my post a little, especially in regard to Finicky's post:

I don't think the OP is wrong for thinking what he thinks, its just another viewpoint - I'm certainly not out to give someone grief because they have formed their own opinion on something. Many of the points you raised Finicky, I completely agree with (I've spent too long with alts so not tried any dungeons yet), although I've not had any performance issues. I suppose using the term polish wasn't quite right, would have been better to use the term presentation.

The game is very accessable, introduces the mechanics well enough, clearly displays goals/targets/events, removes kill stealing, private looting, lovely game world, non combat fluff (jumping puzzles, vistas, Kegbrawl), fair sPvP and jump in WvW - its a nice neat package.

I think really, Guild Wars 2 gets as many things wrong as it does right at the moment - the overall package I feel still elevates it above most offerings as a traditional MMORPG at the moment though.

deano2099
19-09-2012, 05:36 PM
"it does cost twice as much as normal games."

You paid 120$ for this game? No wonder you're disappointed.

In the UK, if you bought it direct from the developer (which was how you got preview weekend and early access) it was 50. The regular price for a PC game here is 30, and that's nearly always discounted to 25 from somewhere.

Not to say you couldn't get it cheaper but you could have easily paid twice the price for it without having to be a total idiot, just a fan of the game.

Battlehenkie
19-09-2012, 06:04 PM
To TixyLixx and Finicky, as a level 80 for a few days I would agree with you. I come back out of hope of discovering something more fun.

- Combat: GW2's combat mechanic is the most inane rotation-oriented nonsense I've seen in a long time. I've done a fair share of "big" world events and killing bosses (Jormag, Shatterer, temples in Malchor's/Cursed) and they have been the most unimpressive, boring thing I've yet seen in Guild Wars 2 because they force you to just zergspam away for 5-10 minutes. Not desirable. To corroborate further: underwater combat is shocking and I avoid it at all times.

- Dungeons: I cannot comment on dungeons as whole as I have only done Ascalonian Catacombs when I was 35 or so, but I have not had the incentive to go try any dungeon since then, despite having a solid run with some RPS folks. That in itself should say a lot. AC itself is absolutely terrible. No interesting mechanics or atmosphere. There is nothing that will make me remember the place, whereas I vividly remember my first time of doing most of WoW's dungeons. There is an attempt at lore but it is uninvolving.

- WvW: Mindless zerg and marathon practice. That is all. I unexpectedly really miss open world PVP, it's boring to feel safe all the time.

- Crafting: Less inventive than it is trying to pose itself as being. The discovery mechanic would be interesting if it did not hold your hand so much as it actually does. Of course the current state is more viable for the game at large and especially casuals, but it is a false feature. Also, the Mystic Forge blows.

- Events: They really are not too bad while leveling up, despite being just your standard fetch/kill/escort quests (no A-net, you brought nothing revolutionary here), but they become absolutely dull and repetitive at the high levels. There is only one exclusive level 80 zone (Cursed Shore) with Frostgorge Sound (70-80) and Malchor's Leap (75-80) as close follow ups. A very, very bad and unwise move. There is too little to do in terms of PVE for a maxlevel. Sure you can go and explore lower level areas but the rewards you get for this are no incentive to do so other than that you want to see the content with that particular character to achieve 100% completion.

What has been refreshing and fun? Jumping puzzles and vistas. I was greatly looking forward to GW2 and enjoyed it for 2 weeks, but I believe people in time will see there is nothing actually revolutionary about the game. It does some things better than its peers, and some things worse. On a scale measuring the current state of affairs, the former part is a feather and the latter a brick of lead.

Nalano
19-09-2012, 06:18 PM
AC is a poor first impression, as it's the most... dungeony of the dungeons, and is rather unforgiving considering it's players' first forays into all-elite mob zones.

I've done all the dungeons and my impressions are a lot more positive now that I've seen the gamut, rather than just AC. Interesting tidbits:

- Story Mode and Exploration Mode are two separate dungeons, and Exploration Mode can itself be split into several dungeons on its own, thanks to branching quests.
- A lot of the dungeons give unique encounters. For instance, the Twilight Arbor has a battle where you're transformed into little mewling kittens who get chased by large wolves. Arah has a flying-ship-to-dragon cannonade where some players man weapons and some clear the decks.
- Story Mode, played in order, presents a narrative arc pertaining to the five heroes that represent the playable races. Most comically, the story boils down to... how would I describe? How about: A WoW five-man wipes on the big boss. Everybody blames everybody else for the wipe. The Charr hates the human. The Asura hates the Norn. The Sylvari asks "why can't we all just get along?" Drama ensues.
- Exploration Mode is usually leveled for 5-10 levels above what the Story Mode is, but gives rewards based on the level of the player, so all players get loot commensurate to their level. Furthermore, the Exploration Modes give tokens which can be traded in for Exotic level-cap gear with unique looks. For instance, this is me wearing a Nightmare Court chestpiece (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e342/jonmphy/Lanos/gw221_zpse63fc3ab.jpg).

Battlehenkie
19-09-2012, 06:22 PM
I will give dungeons another chance then. I have heard the AC sentiment many times, yet it is rather the general 'uninterestingness' about it that unsettled me. It didn't feel like a dungeon but a few randomly connected rooms with randomly placed mobs and a few folks that happened to be stronger. Strong enough to be called a boss. They weren't very interesting to fight and they left nothing behind for me to use. In the end, the lack of atmosphere is what bothered me most. The RPS folk were fun and I believe they made it a good time for me, but the dungeon was the epitome of dull.

Shenanigans
19-09-2012, 06:24 PM
- Dungeons: I cannot comment on dungeons as whole as I have only done Ascalonian Catacombs when I was 35 or so, but I have not had the incentive to go try any dungeon since then, despite having a solid run with some RPS folks. That in itself should say a lot. AC itself is absolutely terrible. No interesting mechanics or atmosphere. There is nothing that will make me remember the place, whereas I vividly remember my first time of doing most of WoW's dungeons. There is an attempt at lore but it is uninvolving.



This part interests me, as I found AC(story) to be interchangeable with a WoW 5-man in most ways. Boss splits, multi-boss, hide behind pillar when boss does death attack, those are all things that could easily be used for both games. AC wasn't very memorable, but neither were most of WoW's dungeons, unless maybe you're into nerdlore or something.

Memph
19-09-2012, 10:55 PM
Combat is different in GW2, you take a lot of damage if you don't move and dodge and thats one of the big differences.

I don't know if this is marketing spiel that stuck, but it is absolutely not true. Indeed, you can hit a button to dodge, but it's no different than pushing a button to walk backwards, to Blink, Disengage, Heroic Leap, or activate a damage/threat mitigation skill at the right time. It is nothing new.

You can 'faceroll' mobs in GW2 just as easily as you can in WoW, but in both games alike, if you pull multiples, elites/veterans or step into a dungeon to then stand still and press skill buttons, you will die. A lot. Yet people are speaking of GW2's combat as if kiting, backstabbing and mouse-turning never existed. I'd actually be inclined to argue that WoW's 'dungeon dancing' is leagues ahead with regard to demanding an awareness of your surroundings, positioning, your team's actions and generally having to move your arse quickly to somewhere else on-cue, whilst maintaining as optimal a damage/healing output or threat control as possible. Granted a well-geared, skilled tank can make the life of a DPSer considerably easier on various dungeon trash, but still, one needs more than luck and an aggro-magnet doing the likes of Bloodlord Mandokir without watching closely for tells and moving very quickly when necessary.

In contrast, I've had groups run every GW2 story-dungeon up to level 60 by pretty much holding down strafe and letting autoattack spam itself, dropping a dodge, or utility skill now and then to stay alive and this, to me at least, is why after 2 weeks of solid play to 75, I've sadly become instantly bored of the world, my character and the game in general. I'm glad they tried to remove the trinity system, but it feels hamfisted, because instead of skill-based mob control and group role mechanics, we're left with randomly meandering, uncontrollable mobs being blind/condition spammed to death as everyone runs in circles around the room trying not to get one-shotted. That and it seems there's literally nothing to do at 80 bar the impersonal 'follow the rabble' of WvWvW, or the completely detached PvP instances.

I really wanted to love it. And for a while I did, but in the blink of a eye of a dragon 'boss' that 2 people on mortars can take down by pressing one button for 20 minutes, the sheen wore right off.

TotalKitty
20-09-2012, 12:59 AM
I don't know if this is marketing spiel that stuck, but it is absolutely not true. Indeed, you can hit a button to dodge, but it's no different than pushing a button to walk backwards, to Blink, Disengage, Heroic Leap, or activate a damage/threat mitigation skill at the right time. It is nothing new.

You can 'faceroll' mobs in GW2 just as easily as you can in WoW, but in both games alike, if you pull multiples, elites/veterans or step into a dungeon to then stand still and press skill buttons, you will die. A lot. Yet people are speaking of GW2's combat as if kiting, backstabbing and mouse-turning never existed. I'd actually be inclined to argue that WoW's 'dungeon dancing' is leagues ahead with regard to demanding an awareness of your surroundings, positioning, your team's actions and generally having to move your arse quickly to somewhere else on-cue, whilst maintaining as optimal a damage/healing output or threat control as possible. Granted a well-geared, skilled tank can make the life of a DPSer considerably easier on various dungeon trash, but still, one needs more than luck and an aggro-magnet doing the likes of Bloodlord Mandokir without watching closely for tells and moving very quickly when necessary.

In contrast, I've had groups run every GW2 story-dungeon up to level 60 by pretty much holding down strafe and letting autoattack spam itself, dropping a dodge, or utility skill now and then to stay alive and this, to me at least, is why after 2 weeks of solid play to 75, I've sadly become instantly bored of the world, my character and the game in general. I'm glad they tried to remove the trinity system, but it feels hamfisted, because instead of skill-based mob control and group role mechanics, we're left with randomly meandering, uncontrollable mobs being blind/condition spammed to death as everyone runs in circles around the room trying not to get one-shotted. That and it seems there's literally nothing to do at 80 bar the impersonal 'follow the rabble' of WvWvW, or the completely detached PvP instances.

I really wanted to love it. And for a while I did, but in the blink of a eye of a dragon 'boss' that 2 people on mortars can take down by pressing one button for 20 minutes, the sheen wore right off.

I agree with this.

Unlike Memph, I actually managed to get all the way to 80 as a Mesmer and gotten a few bought and crafted exotics.

However, the combat and gameplay really brings nothing new to the table. If anything, they have taken many of your average things and twisted them into something horrible.
I don't mind difficult dungeons - in fact, I embraced the idea with arms open, after being stuck in EZmode WoW for years and years. But when I say difficult, I don't like the idea of close to impossible. Memph and I did a dungeon the other night, we blitzed through it like it was a speed-date. The night after, we gathered a new team (this time full guild group) and we got slaughtered like pigs.
You can discuss whteher the team-setup was bad or the people we brought were simply just braindead. Now, if I remember correctly, one of the bigger changes was the loss of trinity and that every class could be paired up to do things like dungeons - NO! With our different setup from the night before, we proved that's a lie.

As Memph said, the combat system is nothing new. I'd gladly switch out dodge with mechanics to avoid damage or mitigation that actually works. Example from same dungeon. We faced a boss, that every 10-20 seconds did a firey attack that couldn't be dodged. Sure you could dodge the impact, but it would still burn you (adding 1-2 burn effects) that would kill you.
In dungeons, it all comes down to how fast my team notice I'm down and quick they can get me up. That's it.

The gameplay is nothing but a money-sink right now. Travelling makes you poor, and that's even after you have used exploits to get to LA for free. Then there's the repair bills (again a big issues in dungeons). It's almost like ANet wants you to be poor. Sure, it's easy to say that one should just go out and farm and sell your treasures on the trading post - WRONG! The 80 area is suicide to go to alone, if your sole reason is to farm. Sure, you might bump into people that are doing events, and you can follow them around a little while. But once you get detatched from said group again, you're on your own and left for dead.
More than once, I have come back with less money after I have sold my treasures, than I had to begin with. And may I add that the rewards from doing dungeons are horrible. 8 out 10 times you don't even get anything that fits your profession and there's not really any money or exp in it either, making dungeons pointless.

I liked the idea about a "free world". Hell yes, no more quests to go out and pick up 5 bear pelts and slay 8 Necromancers of the twilight or watever. But around 60 it hit me, that it was exactly what I was doing. The only change was, that now I had to fill up a little bar to get the "quest" done. Nothing new.

And what is the point in getting exotics anyway? Yes, dungeons on explore mode are hard, very hard (been there, done that) but besides that, your exotics seems more like something you use to show-off while standing in LA. It's close to being pointless.

With these horrible mechanics, the excuse that it's free to play is weak. Even if it is free to play, I would still like to have value for my money. Sure I might not pay a monthly fee, but does that mean that I have to put on my heavy grinding helmet? I think not.

I really loved Guild wars 2 for a while, but now I can't bare to log in and play, and that's after I have played all professions and races to about level 15-20. The thought of that there's barely anything by the end of the tunnel, other than grinding and grinding and doing the same bugged events over and over again in an area close to impossible to solo, is far from attractive.

Concerning sPvP and WvWvW - all I can say is "wtf?!". What kind of game gives you a heavy repairbill when you die? Ok that doesn't really count for sPvP, but don't worry, I get to that.
WvWvW can be fun, when you're facing equal servers and actually has a chance to capture holds and finish the tasks. But more than enough, our server has faced heavy populated servers, where we have gotten walked all over. In those situations, you end up leaving with a heavy repair bill (again a money-sink that shouldn't be there).
sPvP is the same objective over and over again just on different maps. Adding a map rotation doesn't make anything. It's the same objective on the maps over and over again, it's fun the first 2 maps then it just gets plain boring.

Give me steady mechanics, some sort of trinity a way to make decent money and I'll reconsider if I would want to put a blue stamp on this game. Until then, I can only take notice of how less and less I play this game.

Brit89
20-09-2012, 04:49 AM
I haven't read the OP, nor this whole thread as this isn't the first thread of it's kind I've come across... but I thought I'd comment on here what I've been doing and why I enjoy this game.

Yesterday I finally hit level 80, in just under a month. I'm playing as a Sylvari Mesmer. What I did to get to level cap; story missions, 100%'ing each area I've been to - 90% world completion (including WvW), WvW occasionally, various dynamic events (not forced, only if I wanted to).

I haven't done a single Dungeon, haven't crafted much, hell the highest level is 13 as I haven't had any dire reason to craft... yet. Aside from one match of Keg Brawl, not a single match of PvP.

As for what I enjoy about the game? Its sense of freedom it gives me. Grinding is hidden well, then again I haven't forced myself to grind for a set amount of coins, karma or mats and I hit level cap so for now I still have a sense of freedom when playing. I seem to be doing fairly well in PvE as well as WvW with my Green/Blue/Yellow gear; get any drops with better stats? Transmute it or get 4 or the same colour and Forge them - still removing the need to grind for certain items/expendables. Though I can't see what the other person has gear wise, I'm am able to comfortably take on peeps 1v1 in WvW, some times 1v3 though that probably has to do with me being a Mesmer...... which is fucking awesome I might add. Some are saying we're OP, though I've heard most saying that for the Thief in PvP.

It's sense of freedom, exploring is what I enjoy about this game. This is simply such a fun game to play. I've had more fun within the first month of this game then I have in the 4 months I've been playing SWTOR prior to GW2's launch. There's a urge to do much more than go to an area, kill mobs, do missions, get rewards and go to the next one. Though me trying to attain 100% world completion might seem like a chore to you guys, it's all personal preference. It doesn't feel like a chore because I want to do it, not that I need to.

Platforming an area just to get a Vista, then you realise there's an entrance to a cave in the mountains. You go through it only to realise there's a labyrinth, a dark area where you need to jump from one platform to another to reach the end, go down a waterfall, more platforming... until you reach a chest. Some will know what I'm talking about particularly, but I found that purely by accident. And it was so fun going through that, especially when a bunch of players... not partied up, were following not far behind and you now have a formed group going through this jumping puzzle, helping each other until the end. I haven't done every jumping puzzle in every area I've 100%'d as I'm not checking off any tick boxes here. I just go around finding stuff to do, and then move on to another area or mission if I chose to and come back to explore more. You'd think every jumping puzzle would seem lame or repetitive at about level cap, but for myself I still enjoy them and have fun when there are others trying to get to the end as I am.

This game isn't anything different. It has multiple features from multiple games. But it does mix it up well in my honest opinion and I'm still having fun as hell with it. Even playing as an alt and going through the same quests and events, puzzles etc doesn't feel boring or tedious because of how fun it is to play and free this games makes you feel.

Finicky
20-09-2012, 04:49 AM
AC is a poor first impression, as it's the most... dungeony of the dungeons, and is rather unforgiving considering it's players' first forays into all-elite mob zones.

I've done all the dungeons and my impressions are a lot more positive now that I've seen the gamut, rather than just AC. Interesting tidbits:

- Story Mode and Exploration Mode are two separate dungeons, and Exploration Mode can itself be split into several dungeons on its own, thanks to branching quests.
- A lot of the dungeons give unique encounters. For instance, the Twilight Arbor has a battle where you're transformed into little mewling kittens who get chased by large wolves. Arah has a flying-ship-to-dragon cannonade where some players man weapons and some clear the decks.
- Story Mode, played in order, presents a narrative arc pertaining to the five heroes that represent the playable races. Most comically, the story boils down to... how would I describe? How about: A WoW five-man wipes on the big boss. Everybody blames everybody else for the wipe. The Charr hates the human. The Asura hates the Norn. The Sylvari asks "why can't we all just get along?" Drama ensues.
- Exploration Mode is usually leveled for 5-10 levels above what the Story Mode is, but gives rewards based on the level of the player, so all players get loot commensurate to their level. Furthermore, the Exploration Modes give tokens which can be traded in for Exotic level-cap gear with unique looks. For instance, this is me wearing a Nightmare Court chestpiece (http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e342/jonmphy/Lanos/gw221_zpse63fc3ab.jpg).

All of this is true, and the game has lots of nice little additions and small changes to things like the bank screen and crafting screen being one window, story/explore mode, not having to level or gear for battlegrounds, teleport at will as any class at any time, the last stand downed mechanic that actually works in spvp etc.
But the gameplay itself is so uninvolving and bland ...it works okay in spvp with the abilities balanced and designed as they are , but is absolutely rubbish in pve.
All of the little good changes are pretty pointless (again why I said hopefully future mmos will copy some of the good convenience tweaks) if the game isn't enjoyable to play.

The single only highlight in the dungeons for me was the Arny style thumbs up in story mode of the fire dungeon (can't remember the name), but that little speck of light had nothing to do with gameplay.
The single only event highlight was the dragon in frostgorge crashing into the mountain... But the fight itself is still boring (kill mobs for 10 mins while the turret npcs and people with rockets kill the shield, then hit boss when it drops... and then destroy crystals for 10 mins while removing some debuffs off yourself and then hitting the bosses paw some more while he just sits there...
I was at the snow trolls farming for the exotic set for a few evenings and after a day or two none of the people there even bothered going to the event anymore... everyone just stayed at the trolls.
If grinding normal mobs, tedious ones to kill btw, is prefered over 2 hour cooldown big world events then you know they have to be really boring.

And again, as you also mentioned, the story is so frigging bad as is the dialog.
I like a nice story in an mmo (first 20 levels of AOC were great, other than that I can't think of any mmo with a nice story), but I'd rather have no story or text windows that are instantly skippable than having spoken dialog just for the sake of it and that needlessly takes 4-5 sec before you can click skip.
At least the generic bioware tripe in the old republic was still watchable, the dialog in gw2 is downright painful.

People also keep telling the op 'that's just what these wow like theme park mmos are like', but the group I play with are the biggest bunch of carrot chasing theme park loving suckers on the planet and they don't dig gw2 either.

edit: memph does a really good job of expressing pretty much my feelings on the combat.
And yeah the dodge is meaningless, it's just a few frames of invincibility and an animation, it's not even a real dodge.
If people are going to bring dodging in to it then I'd compare it to vindictus or tera instead of wow... and damn does the game compare even a whole lot less favorably than with the wow comparison!

r3dknight
20-09-2012, 05:26 AM
Best Value MMO of the Year for me.
It's got a lot of polished features and the exploration is great - I can compare the hours I played with Skyrim and it still doesn't get stale yet.

And yes, the criticism on PVE combat being stale is absolutely true as well as story writing being mediocre. But that's not why I play Skyrim for.

Nalano
20-09-2012, 05:36 AM
but the group I play with are the biggest bunch of carrot chasing theme park loving suckers on the planet

And you are clearly one of them.

Why are you ruining the game for yourself? Haven't you learned a single lesson from any of the MMOs you've played?

r3dknight
20-09-2012, 06:01 AM
man loves carrot. perhaps he should try cucumbers sometime in the future.

Neweht
20-09-2012, 06:04 AM
As someone who is almost solely playing structured pvp in guild wars 2 and who did similar in previous MMOs such as wow, I find this game's combat to be a big improvement. The dodge feature is adds a lot to the game as you have to recognize and avoid other classes' important abilities to a limited degree. It's a much better system then pillar humping

The removal of the holy trinity is a big deal too. There can still be extremely tanks characters but there can't be healers in any traditional sense. Everyone has to do some kind of damage and usually cc and interrupt. Everyone has to take care of keeping themselves alive. It's a much better way to play even if you like playing a support role as there are options for doing that in a more dynamic way.

The competitive mode of pvp in guild wars 2 is battleground based instead of just kill the enemy. This means that your team's strategy can be as important as it's fighting ability. Personally, your build often needs to take mobility into consideration almost as much as damage, survivability and control.

The combo field system is a complex beast which also adds to all of this. It makes team coordination more important and encourages you to make your team composition around it.

Overall gw2s combat system is a massive improvement when used in small-scale team-based pvp. I share the complaints of others about pve and WvW but I am loving the side of the game I'm playing. Unfortunately it seems to be the less-played side of the game and the one getting the least attention from arena net at the moment.

Mohorovicic
20-09-2012, 06:56 AM
Guild Wars 2 is great because it features generic fantasy world, a selection of generic MMO races, the personal story which is worthless because of how badly written it is and because it's not personal if everyone else is doing it, idiotic casual mechanics like everyone-has-a-heal, groundbreakingly dynamic combat which has been in korean MMOs for the last five years, and most importantly that what goes against everything MMOs stand for - instances and level scaling.

frightlever
20-09-2012, 08:57 AM
Guild Wars 2 is great because it features generic fantasy world, a selection of generic MMO races, the personal story which is worthless because of how badly written it is and because it's not personal if everyone else is doing it, idiotic casual mechanics like everyone-has-a-heal, groundbreakingly dynamic combat which has been in korean MMOs for the last five years, and most importantly that what goes against everything MMOs stand for - instances and level scaling.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/generic

I don't think that word means, what you think it means.

r3dknight
20-09-2012, 09:23 AM
Dude, my character is called Lord Generic in Seafarer's Rest. You should see me sometime, wielding my generic powers of the Guardian. Calling my generic spirit weapons, and spamming generic spinning greatsword as he discovered his generic parents' death were tied to the generic conspiracy against the generic queen of the generic kingdom of generic humans.

Eventually he allied with the generic Vigil order due to their generic approach of handling things.

And that's the general story of my character.

Nalano
20-09-2012, 04:52 PM
Dude, my character is called Lord Generic in Seafarer's Rest. You should see me sometime, wielding my generic powers of the Guardian. Calling my generic spirit weapons, and spamming generic spinning greatsword as he discovered his generic parents' death were tied to the generic conspiracy against the generic queen of the generic kingdom of generic humans.

Eventually he allied with the generic Vigil order due to their generic approach of handling things.

And that's the general story of my character.

To be fair, anybody who plays human in a fantasy game is looking to be Captain Generic of the green hills of Genericland.

Squiz
20-09-2012, 04:58 PM
Not to derail this, but I find it interesting that the thread opener hasn't replied to any of the comments made so far. Was this supposed to be a discussion or just to vent the frustration with a certain game?

Nalano
20-09-2012, 05:27 PM
Not to derail this, but I find it interesting that the thread opener hasn't replied to any of the comments made so far. Was this supposed to be a discussion or just to vent the frustration with a certain game?

The OP is TixyLixx. TixyLixx never stays in a thread for long.

FriendlyFire
20-09-2012, 07:05 PM
I'm slightly amused that this thread is basically "Here be whines about Guild Wars 2". If you don't like it, don't play it. If you like it, go to the GW2 RPS forum and enjoy yourself with the other people who are enjoying themselves. There is no one game that makes everyone happy, that's just a fact of life.

What I don't like is people calling others stupid because they like a game. Are you jealous of others having fun with the game? Get over yourself, sheesh. You're free to dislike the game and even express why you dislike it, but stating opinions as fact and then shitting over people who disagree with you only makes you look like a fool.

At least I'm glad this thread is secluded away from the GW2 forum here. Stops the piss poor folks from raining on everyone's parade just for the hell of it.

deano2099
20-09-2012, 07:42 PM
I'm slightly amused that this thread is basically "Here be whines about Guild Wars 2". If you don't like it, don't play it. If you like it, go to the GW2 RPS forum and enjoy yourself with the other people who are enjoying themselves. There is no one game that makes everyone happy, that's just a fact of life.

Yeah, god forbid we actually discuss a game on a game forum. I'm finding the thread interesting in a way that simple rants aren't because people can either pick apart the negative points or not, depending how valid they are. A thread full of just positive opinions would be dull.

FriendlyFire
20-09-2012, 08:02 PM
I've no issue with people discussing the game, as I've said in the second part of my post you've not bothered with quoting. What I have an issue with is people saying things, considering them as facts, and being seemingly deaf to counterarguments.

I mean, it's obvious when someone comes in with a negative opinion of a game and isn't really looking for arguments as to why they should be trying it again as opposed to just ranting about it.

jquinn914
20-09-2012, 08:12 PM
I gotta agree with the OP. I can see you really liking this game if you were a big WoW fan, or just had some minor gripes with certain aspects of WoW but it's along the same basic formula and if that doesn't do it for you this probably won't either. People really must have forgotten what MMO's were like before WoW if they argue that GW2 is nothing like WoW. MMO's nowadays are these really wide appeal games because MMO's take a ton of revenue to support their ongoing development and upkeep, back in the days of Shadowbane and the like, I actually had a genuine interest in the genre. Now I can care or less about the next 1000 MMO's that come out. On top of all this I have a strong bias nowadays against most ARPGs despite having sort of liked Gothic and really liked Gothic 2 and probably a few others that were technically ARPGs. I think it's that nowadays they use super-rudimentary RPG progression formulas, meaningless and static dialogue, and just slap the action on in place of round-based strategic combat.

deano2099
20-09-2012, 08:13 PM
I mean, it's obvious when someone comes in with a negative opinion of a game and isn't really looking for arguments as to why they should be trying it again as opposed to just ranting about it.

But if that leads to an interesting discussion, then that's good isn't it? Ive always felt the best way to deal with trolls is to actually turn the rant into a topic for interesting discussion, rather than just slagging them off, which is what they often want in the first place.

Nalano
20-09-2012, 09:01 PM
I gotta agree with the OP. I can see you really liking this game if you were a big WoW fan, or just had some minor gripes with certain aspects of WoW but it's along the same basic formula and if that doesn't do it for you this probably won't either. People really must have forgotten what MMO's were like before WoW if they argue that GW2 is nothing like WoW. MMO's nowadays are these really wide appeal games because MMO's take a ton of revenue to support their ongoing development and upkeep, back in the days of Shadowbane and the like, I actually had a genuine interest in the genre. Now I can care or less about the next 1000 MMO's that come out. On top of all this I have a strong bias nowadays against most ARPGs despite having sort of liked Gothic and really liked Gothic 2 and probably a few others that were technically ARPGs. I think it's that nowadays they use super-rudimentary RPG progression formulas, meaningless and static dialogue, and just slap the action on in place of round-based strategic combat.

I know you can't be talking about EQ or other grinds WoW basically cribbed and polished, so you must be talking about UO. UO was fine. UO ain't for everybody. EVE probably has the closest FFA PvP to UO, but EVE is a niche game even by WoW-pretender standards.

This post needs more TLAs.

r3dknight
21-09-2012, 04:27 AM
OK HERES A VALID GRIPE MADE BY A GUILD MATE THAT TURNED INTO A GIANT DRAMA BOMB

Why doesn't the game UI give exact numbers and rely on vague words like 'Regenerates health' or 'Grants Might'
What does Might mean? To my understanding increases output damage by % but why wont the game tell me the exact figure?
I hope they rectify the tooltip soon since it does very little to explain what the ability does in some cases.

Brit89
21-09-2012, 05:39 AM
I'm confused, like this:

http://guildwars2hub.com/sites/sardu.tentonhammer.com/files/corrosive-poison-cloud-tooltip.png

http://mesmermesmerised.com/files/2012/09/CA-Tooltip.png

... or are you after more info? Granted some show %, they still have figures and not just a description.

r3dknight
21-09-2012, 07:12 AM
I'm not home at the moment, but I recall some skill descriptions don't give those.
Like activation of virtue that grants additional bonuses like might etc.
Kinda odd when some skills go into details and others don't

r3dknight
21-09-2012, 08:32 AM
To be fair, anybody who plays human in a fantasy game is looking to be Captain Generic of the green hills of Genericland.

Howabout a Family Expansion Pack?
you get married to NPC at lvl 10
then as you level...your wife will get pregnant at lvl 15
then gives birth at 20
then this is the awesome part
you will see your char age...with your baby kid too
your son/daughter will eventually grow up to be an adult.

think about it man, before you leave for adventuring your wife is gonna give you a picnic basket
with some potions
and food
and kiss you for temporary buff.

also : personal quest...depending on how many mob type u killed - they might go after your family.
imagine logging in
going home and finding nobody's home
and a letter in ur mailbox
'dear Lord Generic, we have your wife.'
do not tell the guards.
follow the quest compass.

jquinn914
21-09-2012, 08:51 AM
I know you can't be talking about EQ or other grinds WoW basically cribbed and polished, so you must be talking about UO. UO was fine. UO ain't for everybody. EVE probably has the closest FFA PvP to UO, but EVE is a niche game even by WoW-pretender standards.

This post needs more TLAs.

I played UO, DAoC, Shadowbane and I'd say I enjoyed Shadowbane far and wide the most because to me it was exactly what I expected from a Massively Multiplayer RPG. To this day I wish I could go back and play it. No, leveling up wasn't great apart from seeing your character develop no there wasn't any real quests or plotlines apart from the main backstory, but it was more than enough for what the game was. No game today offers that kind of continuity in the end game, they all just scrounge together some 5-10 man dungeons, say fuck it to the massively multiplayer aspect, and use gear, ironically, as their hook. UO had heavy PvP influence, Shadowbane was just perfect to me. Start/Join guild, build/populate the guild city(s), compete for resources, wage war on other guilds.
Regarding these games not being for everyone, that was actually my point. Wide appeal games aren't going to be great to any individual person because you run the risk the game being bad or inaccessible to another, so you take a wide appeal stance and try to make a game just alright to everyone, but NO complicated stuff because people get confused, frustrated, and quit. There's people out there that absolutely loved WoW. I didn't. Not vanilla and certainly not thereafter. I played it, sure, mainly because I loved the warcraft universe and TFT particularly but the game never struck me as very good and I always said it just felt "super confined or boxed up" compared to the MMO's I played in favor of hand-holding and feeling triple A.

jquinn914
21-09-2012, 08:51 AM
I know you can't be talking about EQ or other grinds WoW basically cribbed and polished, so you must be talking about UO. UO was fine. UO ain't for everybody. EVE probably has the closest FFA PvP to UO, but EVE is a niche game even by WoW-pretender standards.

This post needs more TLAs.

I played UO, DAoC, Shadowbane and I'd say I enjoyed Shadowbane far and wide the most because to me it was exactly what I expected from a Massively Multiplayer RPG. To this day I wish I could go back and play it. No, leveling up wasn't great apart from seeing your character develop no there wasn't any real quests or plotlines apart from the main backstory, but it was more than enough for what the game was. No game today offers that kind of continuity in the end game, they all just scrounge together some 5-10 man dungeons, say fuck it to the massively multiplayer aspect, and use gear, ironically, as their hook. UO had heavy PvP influence, Shadowbane was just perfect to me. Start/Join guild, build/populate the guild city(s), compete for resources, wage war on other guilds.
Regarding these games not being for everyone, that was actually my point. These MMOs today aren't great to most individual people because you run the risk the game being bad or inaccessible to another. The devs take a wide appeal stance and try to make a game just alright to everyone and NO complicated stuff because people get confused, frustrated, and quit. There's people out there that absolutely loved WoW. I didn't. Not vanilla and certainly not thereafter. I played it, sure, mainly because I loved the warcraft universe and TFT particularly but the game never struck me as very good and I always said it just felt "super confined or boxed up" compared to the MMO's I played in favor of hand-holding and feeling triple A.

zoombapup
21-09-2012, 12:32 PM
I've tried to like it I really have but I made it to level 6 and I'm bored as hell. I'm not interested in if the game gets better at end level or whatever, it should be fun right away and to me it just looks and plays like WoW.

Maybe what you should do instead of playing GW2, is go over all the threads you posted to on the forums and have a look at how negative they are? If you examine why you play games, why you are so overly negative about almost all of them, maybe you will find an answer to why you don't like GW2?

No game is perfect, but honestly I think you need to step away and examine your own attitude towards them. I saw how negative your first post was and got interested in what games you liked. Turns out you don't like much except portal. GW2 is nothing like portal, so I guess it makes sense for you to not like it.

Physician heal thyself.

Screwie
21-09-2012, 12:56 PM
I'm not home at the moment, but I recall some skill descriptions don't give those.
Like activation of virtue that grants additional bonuses like might etc.
Kinda odd when some skills go into details and others don't

I can't check right now but I am sure I remember a dev saying there is a short-form and long-form version for every skill pop-up. Which one is chosen depends on either (and this is where I am relying on my sketchy memory) if you look at it in/out of combat, and/or how long you hover the mouse over the skill icon.

Nalano
21-09-2012, 08:17 PM
I played UO, DAoC, Shadowbane and I'd say I enjoyed Shadowbane far and wide the most because to me it was exactly what I expected from a Massively Multiplayer RPG. To this day I wish I could go back and play it. No, leveling up wasn't great apart from seeing your character develop no there wasn't any real quests or plotlines apart from the main backstory, but it was more than enough for what the game was. No game today offers that kind of continuity in the end game, they all just scrounge together some 5-10 man dungeons, say fuck it to the massively multiplayer aspect, and use gear, ironically, as their hook. UO had heavy PvP influence, Shadowbane was just perfect to me. Start/Join guild, build/populate the guild city(s), compete for resources, wage war on other guilds.
Regarding these games not being for everyone, that was actually my point. Wide appeal games aren't going to be great to any individual person because you run the risk the game being bad or inaccessible to another, so you take a wide appeal stance and try to make a game just alright to everyone, but NO complicated stuff because people get confused, frustrated, and quit. There's people out there that absolutely loved WoW. I didn't. Not vanilla and certainly not thereafter. I played it, sure, mainly because I loved the warcraft universe and TFT particularly but the game never struck me as very good and I always said it just felt "super confined or boxed up" compared to the MMO's I played in favor of hand-holding and feeling triple A.

You're describing a sandbox MMO. And what always humors me are the folks who wanna bring sandbox MMO stuff to theme park MMOs, like guild cities, player housing, and fighting largely to dominate the resources necessary for guild cities and player housing.

The problem is, either you de-emphasize the PvP aspect, and you get endless suburbia (or worse, endless instanced suburbia, which is less than pointless), or you emphasize the PvP aspect, and nobody wants to play your game because they could lose everything they ever grinded for to some asshat who's played the game longer than them.

The folks who clamber for that in theme park MMOs are basically saying, "I wanna get in a head start, run up the levels as fast as I can and, with my guild, dominate my server to kingdom come." And for everybody else, they're no longer playing X Developer's game, they're playing X Guild's game.

Finicky
21-09-2012, 11:45 PM
And you are clearly one of them.

Why are you ruining the game for yourself? Haven't you learned a single lesson from any of the MMOs you've played?

Wut? And how am I ruining the game for myself by finding the gameplay to be really bad? It's my own fault that the gameplay is bad and I should just learn to enjoy it? Quietly practice eating shit and try to make it an aqcuired taste or something?
Waiter this soup is cold and tasteless and too salty; Why are you ruining the soup for yourself!

I said that literally all I expected and wanted out of the game was some decent battlegrounds aka the spvp ,which in this game has no carrot , no grind, no leveling... which is why I wanted to try the game and bought it.
And while the combat holds up better in spvp it's still not very good there either.
My friends who expected more are very dissapointed.

I don't give a rats ass about the carrot, I only played rift beta for 15 levels out of curiosity, one evening of Tor trial... I don't buy or play any of the theme parks that my theme park loving carrot chasing friends love so much.
The whole point that you are so skillfully derailing was that gw2 is crap at being a theme park mmo, and that the theme park mmo lovers whom I know don't enjoy the game either... This was a rebuttal to the 'you just don't like mmos' strawman argument that someone aimed at the op.

The only mmo I've played since early 2010 was tera, and I gave up on that after 2 weeks because it turned out to be another theme park carrot grind. It was pitched as open world bosses , world pvp and politics so I figured it would be a bit more focused on the massive multiplayer and a bit less on the rpg, I was wrong as none of those things were a part of playing at max level by design.

I know I've probably offended you if the loot carrot chasing sucker definition applies to you too, but I'm sorry the NO U card makes no sense here.

GW2 promised lots of pvp (too bad spvp is not very entertaining and wvw is total trash), no grind (delivered mostly on that, even though leveling up is a big chore) but the problem with the game is that none of the activities nor the gameplay are well thought out or fun.
Most people ingame and even on here agree with that, and the only rebuttal I keep seeing is that people should know better and expect less? Well okay then...

I always told mmo playing friends that if you stripped the carrot away from a modern mmo that noone would want to play it, and that was when I had games in mind with way better (more accurate to say way less shit) combat than gw2.
Wow could have held up with no carrot for the first two expansions if it were just pvp with gear equality and no grind or gear resets (which I figured this game would offer) but gw2 is just so bad it's sad.


The post above also suggests you never played a sandbox mmo, or you played one with a terrible community. (or you were 11 and got mad when you lost your shit)

ambing1
30-09-2012, 04:24 AM
The game doesn't explain crafting what so ever so I have no interest in bothering with that.
Yes. There are not much info about how to do crafting but a lot of articles are available in the web about how to do it properly. This one's a good starter i guess: http://www.gamearena.com.au/news/read.php/5116045
the article is written for beginners but i think it covers a lot of bases in crafting and its basics.

MeltdownInteractiveMedia
01-10-2012, 11:59 AM
Didn't find much special about Guild Wars 2.
It's a very pretty game that is nicely polished with huge amounts of content but that's about it.

Nalano
01-10-2012, 01:21 PM
GW2 promised lots of pvp (too bad spvp is not very entertaining and wvw is total trash), no grind (delivered mostly on that, even though leveling up is a big chore) but the problem with the game is that none of the activities nor the gameplay are well thought out or fun.

You and I are clearly not playing the same game.


The post above also suggests you never played a sandbox mmo, or you played one with a terrible community. (or you were 11 and got mad when you lost your shit)

I played UO and EVE. I briefly tangled with the UI of MO.

My point was that it's not a mainstream game mode, not that I personally couldn't handle it. But, please, tell me how I'm not hardcore enough, because that certainly won't prove my point that you're getting a stomach ache like a kid with no self control on Halloween.


Didn't find much special about Guild Wars 2.
It's a very pretty game that is nicely polished with huge amounts of content but that's about it.

Pros:

- Polished
- Pretty
- Huge amounts of content

Cons:

- Doesn't teleport hookers to living room

MeltdownInteractiveMedia
02-10-2012, 02:15 PM
Cons:

- Doesn't teleport hookers to living room

:D
Now please drop the name of the MMO that does so I can download it immediately.

Phantoon
02-10-2012, 07:59 PM
This thread, intentional or not, was obvious troll bait.

Why did everyone bite?

deano2099
02-10-2012, 10:00 PM
This thread, intentional or not, was obvious troll bait.

Why did everyone bite?

No idea but I'm glad they did as I've found the discussion quite interesting in terms of whether to pick up the game or not.