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goatmonkey
01-10-2012, 07:05 PM
So it is time for a new motherboard and CPU which thanks to Hard Choices has been relatively simple. I do however require a new CPU cooler for a Socket 1155 motherboard specifically the Asus P8Z77-V DELUXE (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007KZQE5I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE).

I am looking for something in the 25-35 range that hits a decent balance between cooling and sound but any recommendations and experiences are welcome.

mashakos
01-10-2012, 07:44 PM
You should give watercooling a shot. For low noise cooling i.e doesn't turn into a blow dryer when cpu is on full load, the Antec Kuhler 920 (http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1590/1/) is a great choice. Another nice thing about watercooling kits is that they don't become dangerously inefficient with dust buildup the way air coolers get. It's a bit over your proposed budget, but in the long run it's worth it.
EDIT: If you have space for a dual fan radiator in your case, the Corsair H100 (http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/corsair_h100_review,9.html) is an amazing choice: able to cool an extreme core i7 3960x to 4.5ghz at the lowest fan settings.

Sakkura
01-10-2012, 08:49 PM
Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo. Don't waste your time and money on watercooling.

Alex Bakke
01-10-2012, 11:09 PM
"Don't waste your time and money on watercooling"

Rubbish - Watercooling kits nowadays take just as long to fit, they're around the same price, too. What Mashakos says is *mostly* right.

"They don't become dangerously inefficient with dust buildup" is something to be wary of; as they're still getting rid of heat via a radiator with a fan on, you'll still need to clean the radiator now and then. Not so much as normal, but I've got a few friends who haven't touched the radiator since installation, and their temps are way higher than they should be.

mashakos
01-10-2012, 11:33 PM
"They don't become dangerously inefficient with dust buildup" is something to be wary of; as they're still getting rid of heat via a radiator with a fan on, you'll still need to clean the radiator now and then. Not so much as normal, but I've got a few friends who haven't touched the radiator since installation, and their temps are way higher than they should be.
I didn't say that you should never clean your radiator! :D
Temps will be 10c - 15c higher on a radiator with a lot of dust buildup, which is of course not a great situation to have, but it's still safer than a blocked fan on an air cooler. I've seen several cases where friends ask me why their PCs keep shutting off. You guessed it, air cooler with clogged fans leading to extremely high - sometimes damage inducing - overheats.

Sakkura
01-10-2012, 11:42 PM
Rubbish - Watercooling kits nowadays take just as long to fit, they're around the same price, too. What Mashakos says is *mostly* right.
The LCS Mashakos recommended costs three times as much as the air cooler I recommended. There is also the complication of radiator compatibility and installation (not that it's rocket science).

mashakos
01-10-2012, 11:53 PM
The LCS Mashakos recommended costs three times as much as the air cooler I recommended. There is also the complication of radiator compatibility and installation (not that it's rocket science).

hm, according to this review (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/cooler_master_hyper_212_evo_review):
core i7 930 overclocked to 3.9ghz (weak overclock BTW):
idle temperature = 45C
load temperature = 84.25C

WTF! Nice choice you got there!!!

Sakkura
02-10-2012, 01:00 AM
hm, according to this review (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/cooler_master_hyper_212_evo_review):
core i7 930 overclocked to 3.9ghz (weak overclock BTW):
idle temperature = 45C
load temperature = 84.25C

WTF! Nice choice you got there!!!
Maximum PC, eh? Okay, not a reliable review site at all, but I'll bite.

Here's their updated review (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/cooler_master_hyper_212_evo_review_0). Notice the burn temperatures - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo: 74 degrees, Corsair H100: 69.2 degrees. So you pay 200% more for ~12% better cooling performance.

Heliocentric
02-10-2012, 01:00 AM
I'm with water cooling is a risky waste of time. Water cooling doesn't even push air on tertiary components like storage drives or ram, leaving your less aggressively heat outputting areas to cook,

mashakos
02-10-2012, 01:22 AM
Here's their updated review (http://www.maximumpc.com/article/%5Bprimary-term%5D/cooler_master_hyper_212_evo_review_0).
that's not an updated review, that's a review of a revised version of the cooler. So you need to buy this cooler twice if you're an early adopter. Nice.


Notice the burn temperatures - Cooler Master Hyper 212 Evo: 74 degrees, Corsair H100: 69.2 degrees. So you pay 200% more for ~12% better cooling performance.
what? lol. You pay for delta performance. In other words, how well the cooler reacts to sudden spikes in temperature. Get the TDP above 180W and any air cooler will be useless. The Corsair H100 and other pre-built dual radiator kits reach 75C at 4.8Ghz overclocks, while an air cooler is barely stable at 4.2Ghz.



Water cooling doesn't even push air on tertiary components like storage drives or ram, leaving your less aggressively heat outputting areas to cook,
wrong on so many levels...
remember kids, water cooling uses AIR to cool. Figure that riddle out for yourself :)

Really amusing that I'm being told that I have been a daredevil risk taker for 6 years straight!

Sakkura
02-10-2012, 02:37 AM
that's not an updated review, that's a review of a revised version of the cooler. So you need to buy this cooler twice if you're an early adopter. Nice.


what? lol. You pay for delta performance. In other words, how well the cooler reacts to sudden spikes in temperature. Get the TDP above 180W and any air cooler will be useless. The Corsair H100 and other pre-built dual radiator kits reach 75C at 4.8Ghz overclocks, while an air cooler is barely stable at 4.2Ghz.



wrong on so many levels...
remember kids, water cooling uses AIR to cool. Figure that riddle out for yourself :)

Really amusing that I'm being told that I have been a daredevil risk taker for 6 years straight!
It's an update prompted by a minor revision changing the mounting to include socket LGA 2011 support. This doesn't affect cooling performance in any way whatsoever.

Okay, now you pay for delta performance rather than temperatures? There are no socket LGA 1155 processors with a TDP above 180W by the way, so you're not making any sense there.

As for the air a water cooler uses, it's sucked through a radiator that is typically mounted where case fans would normally go. So it doesn't provide the same component cooling as a CPU cooler, but just an inferior version of a case fan.

goatmonkey
02-10-2012, 07:19 AM
Hi guys cheers for the recommendations, I should probably have added any water cooler would probably have to sit outside my case anyway which is not really ideal. I have been using an air cooler on my current CPU for 4+ years and what little dust build up there has been has never been enough to push the temperatures to anything approaching unpleasant so I don't think I will be going with watercooling for the present.

Heliocentric
02-10-2012, 10:01 AM
Dare Devil? No, it's more like not chewing crisps properly (potato chips to yanks) when you are eating them.

MiniMatt
02-10-2012, 10:16 AM
Depends on priorities. As has been mentioned above, the TDP draw is unlikely to be great nowadays unless you're going in for massively overclocked i7s or something. Standard i5-2500k runs 95w TDP.

In my experience (which extends to about 3 years with an external radiator with GPU/CPU/chipset waterblocks - I've now reverted to air) then watercooling is noisier than air. As has been pointed out, unless you've a huge external passive radiator then watercooling setups rely on a fan pushing air through an (internal) radiator - net result is fan noise + pump noise.

With either a positive pressure case (more intake chassis fans than exhaust) + fan filters, or, with semi regular cleaning (being lazy, I favour the former) internal dust build up is not an issue.

Assuming no overclocking, sensible TDP processor choice, and regular gaming rather than specialist super CPU intensive apps like batch rendering jobs etc my first recommendation would be to stick with the stock cooler. That may seem heretical to many but the cooling provided will be fine in such a scenario, the only thing which may intrude would be noise - and that's subjective and dependent upon the rest of your setup. If it's fine then spend the 30 saved on beer and pizza. Or sex & drugs, your call.

If you do end up requiring aftermarket cooler then tower coolers tend to be more more efficient at removing CPU heat than top down blowers. More efficient means lower speed, means quieter. Tower coolers don't put as much air about the motherboard components but if the airflow in your case provided by chassis fans is adequate then you'll be fine. Larger, slower running fans better than smaller whizzing fans for efficiency and noise, so aim for 120mm CPU fan if possible. Space may be a constraint dependent on your case so check clearances - some of the larger tower coolers are 165mm+ tall. And personally I worry a little about the weight of some of the huge coolers - near a kilo of metal levering down on the motherboard (assuming a tower case) is quite a lot. Some cases (eg Silverstone TJ08-E) make provision for this by including heatsink supports.

All that said, for actual recommendations, Scythe, Noctua, and Thermalright all have a good recommendation for producing efficient and quiet coolers in both tower and top down format. They tend to stretch your stated budget however.

If your first priority (after "sufficient" cooling) is noise, then SilentPCReview.com have good reviews on a lot of these and their forums are worth a punt too, as the main site is a bit US-centric.

mashakos
02-10-2012, 05:03 PM
As for the air a water cooler uses, it's sucked through a radiator that is typically mounted where case fans would normally go. So it doesn't provide the same component cooling as a CPU cooler, but just an inferior version of a case fan.
A radiator can be positioned anywhere, and it obviously doesn't need to go where the case fan is mounted. A radiator can be positioned to blow over the MOSFETs and ram pretty easily, so any argument here is pure laziness. Here's a pic from my WIP a year ago (tie strings for testing purposes only of course!):
http://mashakos.com/pers/img/radposWIP.jpg


Depends on priorities. As has been mentioned above, the TDP draw is unlikely to be great nowadays unless you're going in for massively overclocked i7s or something. Standard i5-2500k runs 95w TDP.

Okay, now you pay for delta performance rather than temperatures? There are no socket LGA 1155 processors with a TDP above 180W by the way, so you're not making any sense there.
Overclocking above 4Ghz easily exceeds the 200w range. I have my core i7 3930k overclocked to 4.5Ghz and my CPU draws 90w on idle.

MiniMatt
02-10-2012, 05:34 PM
Overclocking above 4Ghz easily exceeds the 200w range. I have my core i7 3930k overclocked to 4.5Ghz and my CPU draws 90w on idle.

So that's where the bloody polar ice caps went :)

I fear we've gone past offering solutions based on the OP's question and are entering the realm of PC porn :)

Sakkura
02-10-2012, 06:01 PM
A radiator can be positioned anywhere, and it obviously doesn't need to go where the case fan is mounted. A radiator can be positioned to blow over the MOSFETs and ram pretty easily, so any argument here is pure laziness. Here's a pic from my WIP a year ago (tie strings for testing purposes only of course!):
http://mashakos.com/pers/img/radposWIP.jpg



Overclocking above 4Ghz easily exceeds the 200w range. I have my core i7 3930k overclocked to 4.5Ghz and my CPU draws 90w on idle.
1. Oh yes, because that fits real well in most normal cases. Not to mention the way it covers the top PCIe slot...

2. Overclocking? That's not the TDP for chrissakes. Thermal Design Power.

Sakkura
02-10-2012, 06:03 PM
So that's where the bloody polar ice caps went :)

I fear we've gone past offering solutions based on the OP's question and are entering the realm of PC porn :)
It's pretty clear that Mashakos never did give a damn about the OP's question. "Something in the 25-35 range" and he suggests watercooling starting at ~75.

Danny252
03-10-2012, 11:32 AM
It's pretty clear that Mashakos never did give a damn about the OP's question. "Something in the 25-35 range" and he suggests watercooling starting at ~75.

To be honest, all of his posts seem to be "Here's my stuff/opinion/anecdote, and I know more than you! It's vaguely related to what you said, so I can post it here."

Heliocentric
03-10-2012, 11:40 AM
To be honest, all of his posts seem to be "Here's my stuff/opinion/anecdote, and I know more than you! It's vaguely related to what you said, so I can post it here."

Also, mashakos clearly has a very different value:cost ratio to (at least my) expectations of normal. Yeah... I don't often frown on RPS, but mash, you have the knack >:/

Jesus_Phish
03-10-2012, 12:01 PM
So it is time for a new motherboard and CPU which thanks to Hard Choices has been relatively simple. I do however require a new CPU cooler for a Socket 1155 motherboard specifically the Asus P8Z77-V DELUXE (http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B007KZQE5I/ref=ox_sc_act_title_2?ie=UTF8&smid=A3P5ROKL5A1OLE).

I am looking for something in the 25-35 range that hits a decent balance between cooling and sound but any recommendations and experiences are welcome.

I went with one of these based on decent reviews around the net. I don't overclock much beyond the stock of my processor (why would I need to other than willy waving?) and it runs cool and quiet.

http://www.dabs.ie/products/arctic-cooling-freezer-7-pro-rev-2-cpu-cooler-73WG.html

Pros:
Easy as hell to clean, the bracket holding the fan pops off when you need to.
Cheap as hell,
Not loud, even when going full whack
Cools pretty well.

Cons:
It's a bit bulky and on some MOBOs the fan can protrude over the ram sockets, which forces you to use ram with no or low profile heat sinks.
It can be a bit of a pain to install because of the fins on the radiator, they're kinda sharp enough, I wouldn't hold it sideways anyway.

It's certainly not a "Blow Dryer" and it's great value for money imo.

mashakos
03-10-2012, 04:40 PM
I went with one of these based on decent reviews around the net. I don't overclock much beyond the stock of my processor (why would I need to other than willy waving?)

If you aren't overclocking, why replace the stock cooler in the first place? It's great at stock speeds, not loud ata ll - and it comes free with your CPU! Not getting the logic here other than some desire to play tech geek.


1. Oh yes, because that fits real well in most normal cases.
yeah it does actually. If it can fit in a small HTPC case it can damn well fit in a mid tower (if lateral thinking doesn't make your head hurt anyway...)


Not to mention the way it covers the top PCIe slot...
Oh, the radiator covered a PCIe slot? lol, those ridiculous tower cpu coolers you like so much won't even fit in most PC cases.


2. Overclocking? That's not the TDP for chrissakes. Thermal Design Power.
You don't know what I'm talking about. Oh well, google can help (http://www.ehow.com/how_6402697_calculate-cpu-wattage.html).


So that's where the bloody polar ice caps went :)

I fear we've gone past offering solutions based on the OP's question and are entering the realm of PC porn :)

Bottom line: Spend an additional 50 quid and have a cpu that stays relevant for four years after overclocking, or save 50 quid now and upgrade your entire system in 2 years? Your choice OP.

Jesus_Phish
03-10-2012, 04:52 PM
If you aren't overclocking, why replace the stock cooler in the first place? It's great at stock speeds, not loud ata ll - and it comes free with your CPU! Not getting the logic here other than some desire to play tech geek.




I went with one of these based on decent reviews around the net. I don't overclock much beyond the stock of my processor (why would I need to other than willy waving?) and it runs cool and quiet.

Understand? Yes? Good!

Your answer to this lads question was basically the same as me telling someone "lol, buy a porsche" when he asked about buying a ford.

Also, if you think you have to upgrade your entire system every two years just because you don't OC and use water cooling, then you really are joking.

mashakos
03-10-2012, 05:00 PM
Understand? Yes? Good!
Not really. Overclocking by anything less than 25% (EDIT: actually, 35% is the number I reached where performance really takes off on mid-range CPUs) is completely useless: any improvement you feel from any overclock lower than is a placebo effect. Believe me, I wish I could get actual results of performance increase with a 500mhz overclock.

So again, you got a new cooler because you read some good reviews?

Jesus_Phish
03-10-2012, 05:13 PM
Because I don't like stock coolers, they tend to not last long and are messy IN MY EXPERIENCE. My last stock cooler had no way of removing the fan case from the radiator and as a result massive amounts of dust got caught under the blades.

At the moment I run my CPU at about 25% more than stock, perhaps I want to run it at more than that in the future? I've never really pushed it because I never saw the need, but with this non-stock cooler I could push it.

Additionally, even without over clocking it cools better than the stock and as you should know, better cooling of components = longer life span.

Maybe that's why you think you have to replace systems so often?

*EDIT*

It's worth pointing out I guess, that not everyone wants to OC their machine to hell and back. Some of us just want it to run cooler and quieter than the stock would allow.

mashakos
03-10-2012, 05:15 PM
Also, if you think you have to upgrade your entire system every two years just because you don't OC and use water cooling, then you really are joking.
Since I always overclock and install watercooling kits, I honestly haven't had a setup that I "needed" to upgrade until it's fifth year. As an example, my old Core 2 Duo E8400 system that was overclocked to 4Ghz was a top performing system right up until I upgraded last year. My upgrade had nothing to do with the performance of the system, I am interested in designing things so wanted to try a different setup to see if some of my designs worked on different hardware levels. That and the novelty of having 16 gigs of cheap high performance RAM.

A lot of people on the other hand, who don't overclock and use watercooling keep calling the E8400 old, crappy and a bottleneck (https://www.google.com/search?btnG=Google+Search&q=%20core+2+duo+e8400+old). Those people should have overclocked instead of starting upgrade threads everywhere :)

mashakos
03-10-2012, 05:23 PM
Because I don't like stock coolers, they tend to not last long and are messy IN MY EXPERIENCE. My last stock cooler had no way of removing the fan case from the radiator and as a result massive amounts of dust got caught under the blades.
radiator? Oh, you mean heatsink.
Did AMD do something ridiculous with the Phenom cpu coolers? I remember the old Athlon unit to be very easy to dismantle, and you can't say anything about the stock intel cooler's ease of use.