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ChiYeon
09-10-2012, 10:48 AM
Recently I've been thinking IF it would be possible to reach the end for MMO Gs, just like that of Sword Art Online /runs/.
Where in you gotta stick to the game till the end, even how hard / boring it might be.
Some game titles I'm thinking of playing for this challenge:
(plus I will be documenting this one on my blog- since I want to waste my IRL time)
Maestia (http://playmaestia.com/) (NA version, I think they have EU?)
War of Angels (http://warofangelscom/)
or just recommend some games perhaps?
I don't want to play big titled games, I want to keep this 'wasting of life points' as personal as possible, and not to be persuaded by other factors such as community or such

----
I'm trying to cure my fixation on console games. lol.

Heliocentric
09-10-2012, 12:06 PM
Okaysies.... Trying to wrap my head around this topic. "Having to play" a game is called a job, a fun job is great, a bad job is okay cos yunno money, but a dreadful payless job?

No ta...

Some games which are terrible addicted me, others I played because they were "supposed to be good", to memory Spellforce 1(which is a disgusting growth of a game), Medal of Hono(u)r (the old one, trying to get to vastly praised Omaha beach and then giving up because the combat and sniper alleys were horrible) and the fun to capitalise wrong DragonShard (which was rubbish, but really easy because clerics were epic OP, so overall not that bad as a soothing use of time).

There are edge cases of "not good but special" games like Assassins Creed 1 where the actual playing was draining but it had virtue in other ways, or Cities in Motion (in the "why wont you just reach self sufficiency you bastards" addiction kinda way).

Generally I have gotten much more fussy in how I spend my time, and I feel experienced enough to judge some titles by their reviews and features. FTP shooter? I just check the ingame store, if there is a single actual combat advantage of any sort (I don't mind exp boosters, but Planetside 2's "buy more vehicles/equipment" is obnoxious. I know the game will be good but I need to filter my quality time and interest in games somehow.

Hypernetic
09-10-2012, 12:31 PM
Um, what? So your great challenge is to reach level cap in an MMO?

If you want to do something really tedious, go get the achievement in HL2:E2 to put the gnome in the rocket.

Heliocentric
09-10-2012, 12:41 PM
put the gnome in the rocket.

FUCK YOU... I tried to do that once and around the bendy bridge I managed to get it stuck just out of reach and a scripted door meant I'd need to repeat an hour of the game to get it back...

I'm just glad I gave up then than later with the car which was apparently horrible.

Hypernetic
09-10-2012, 12:57 PM
FUCK YOU... I tried to do that once and around the bendy bridge I managed to get it stuck just out of reach and a scripted door meant I'd need to repeat an hour of the game to get it back...

I'm just glad I gave up then than later with the car which was apparently horrible.

Yeah the car is the worst part.

Lukasz
09-10-2012, 01:13 PM
I quit the challenge at car too.


Why would you waste your time on something you won't enjoy? What is your point, ChiYeon?


You say that you want to "cure my fixation on console games". I do not see how the challenge can do that. I would assume it will do the opposite thing and enforce your fixation.
Furthermore, try to imagine how achieving your goal will look like in few years time. Will you look at it in 2014 and be proud of getting a max level in a mmorpg which probably will be dead anyway? If it is alive the cap might be increased and will you comeback to it then?


If you want a challenge in game pick something you enjoy. Conquer a world in HoI3, lead a Maxflood in Planetside 2, learn how to play a chess and beat any commercial-AI.

What you are suggesting is almost as bad as that guy who played Fallout 3 or Skyrim for over hundred of hours and says it was a bad game.

eRa
09-10-2012, 01:28 PM
FUCK YOU... I tried to do that once and around the bendy bridge I managed to get it stuck just out of reach and a scripted door meant I'd need to repeat an hour of the game to get it back...

I'm just glad I gave up then than later with the car which was apparently horrible.

I remember something similar happening to me back in the day. Luckily I found a savegame online where the gnome was tucked in the rocket and I just had to launch it (shameful, I know).

The concept of carrying the little guy through the game led to some fun moments though. This also reminds me, I want Episode 3.

deano2099
09-10-2012, 01:31 PM
Why would you waste your time on something you won't enjoy? What is your point, ChiYeon?



To make an interesting piece of writing I guess?

Lukasz
09-10-2012, 01:45 PM
To make an interesting piece of writing I guess?

Can MMORPG provide that? I don't see that. Secret World, Eve, TOR could in my opinion but other MMORPGs?

deano2099
09-10-2012, 01:47 PM
Can MMORPG provide that? I don't see that. Secret World, Eve, TOR could in my opinion but other MMORPGs?

Not if you're writing about the game. But if you're writing about the process. There's something to it, as a project, if you have the time. The path the level cap in an MMO that takes 1000 hours of grinding. How it slowly drives you crazy, or you start to find interesting elements in the smaller things...

Heliocentric
09-10-2012, 01:51 PM
Not if you're writing about the game. But if you're writing about the process. There's something to it, as a project, if you have the time. The path the level cap in an MMO that takes 1000 hours of grinding. How it slowly drives you crazy, or you start to find interesting elements in the smaller things...
Yeah, just don't write that time you killed 20 rats.
I'd read about MMO as a form of self torture.

Lukasz
09-10-2012, 02:07 PM
Good point. I shall reconsider my opinion when I see the results.

Hypernetic
09-10-2012, 03:12 PM
Not if you're writing about the game. But if you're writing about the process. There's something to it, as a project, if you have the time. The path the level cap in an MMO that takes 1000 hours of grinding. How it slowly drives you crazy, or you start to find interesting elements in the smaller things...

You make it sound like reaching level cap in an MMO is akin to climbing Mount Everest or something...

LTK
09-10-2012, 05:11 PM
I had fun with the gnome. Got it all the way to the rocket as well. More games need achievements that are actually achievements instead of progress markers.

Speaking of which, if you really want to keep yourself busy, you can play EYE: Divine Cybermancy and try to get all 102 achievements that come with it.

Nalano
09-10-2012, 05:36 PM
Not if you're writing about the game. But if you're writing about the process. There's something to it, as a project, if you have the time. The path the level cap in an MMO that takes 1000 hours of grinding. How it slowly drives you crazy, or you start to find interesting elements in the smaller things...

Time it took me to hit levelcap playing 2-4 hours a night:

WoW: 1 month
WAR: 3 weeks
AoC: 3 weeks
Rift: 2.5 weeks
GW2: 2 weeks

Now, that to me isn't "beating" an MMO. That's just getting to the endgame. I suspect the OP, however, is talking about just reaching levelcap, in which case 98% of everybody who plays the game for longer than a week does that.

Now, to "beat" an MMO, to me, is to reach levelcap and achieve a collection of the best possible gear combination in the game. This tends to involve raiding, and raiding is structurally limited by having to herd a bunch of cats, and artificially limited by lockout timers and random loot drops. With each additional tier of loot, however, the timer is reset, and as such it is really just a race against the developers of the next tier of content.

How long it took me, therefore, to beat various MMOs:

WoW: 1 year
WAR: 4 months
AoC: DNF
Rift: DNF
GW2: 1 month

deano2099
09-10-2012, 06:48 PM
Time it took me to hit levelcap playing 2-4 hours a night:

While I could be wrong, I got the impression the OP was talking about the crazy Korean grind-a-thon MMOs rather than the mass market western ones.

Nalano
09-10-2012, 06:53 PM
While I could be wrong, I got the impression the OP was talking about the crazy Korean grind-a-thon MMOs rather than the mass market western ones.

He linked some Korean MMOs, sure, but he didn't specify. I think, however, that a prerequisite to playing Korean MMOs is to be Korean and/or a pedophile.

ChiYeon
10-10-2012, 03:57 AM
Now, to "beat" an MMO, to me, is to reach levelcap and achieve a collection of the best possible gear combination in the game. This tends to involve raiding, and raiding is structurally limited by having to herd a bunch of cats, and artificially limited by lockout timers and random loot drops. With each additional tier of loot, however, the timer is reset, and as such it is really just a race against the developers of the next tier of content.

How long it took me, therefore, to beat various MMOs:

WoW: 1 year
WAR: 4 months
AoC: DNF
Rift: DNF
GW2: 1 month
Really GW2 just for a month?, good thing my copy was just a gift.

Well, that's exactly what I meant by end game, mmo's are designed for party raidings / groupie grinds. But I'd like to reach the end game, as solitary as possible.
A solo player.


While I could be wrong, I got the impression the OP was talking about the crazy Korean grind-a-thon MMOs rather than the mass market western ones.
As for the first link, No, it's not korean (I do get your point) but my 'asian being' was butthurt so here's the dev's page, http://www.rocworks.co.jp/.
as for the other one...ugh.. yeah.. its.. KR..

Nalano
10-10-2012, 04:45 AM
Really GW2 just for a month?, good thing my copy was just a gift.

I hate grinding, which is why I like GW2. None of this "herding 39 other asshats you barely tolerate for a stab at the random number generator" bullshit. Getting up to par is fairly easy, and then PvP is the endgame.


But I'd like to reach the end game, as solitary as possible.
A solo player.

You do understand what the MM in MMORPG means?

Neweht
10-10-2012, 05:22 AM
Guild wars 2 is definately a pvp mmo to it's core. If you are going to get it you should either expect about that month's worth of content or really enjoy pvp.

ChiYeon
10-10-2012, 11:39 AM
You do understand what the MM in MMORPG means?
burn me pls, but that's the reason why it's a challenge

Feldspar
10-10-2012, 11:43 AM
You do understand what the MM in MMORPG means?
I thought it stood for "Single-player game with a chat engine attached", but looking back at that I realise it doesn't quite fit the acronym.

Ritashi
10-10-2012, 05:35 PM
burn me pls, but that's the reason why it's a challenge

I'm not quite sure how a dull grind is a challenge - it's obvious you will get there eventually. (unless the challenge is just whether you give up from boredom first? Which just sounds pointless and stupid, there's no reason to do something you dislike).

Basically, find something more interesting to do, that you like doing. I'm not even sure what your goal is in all this (I could not comprehend your first post entirely because of the poor structure), but I am certain that spending a bunch of time doing something that isn't fun is not the best way to accomplish that goal.

Nalano
10-10-2012, 06:46 PM
but I am certain that spending a bunch of time doing something that isn't fun is not the best way to accomplish that goal.

This. MMOs are a function of time, not of skill: The harder the game is, the less accessible it is, and the whole business sense of MMOs is maximizing the quantity of subscribers.

If you have hella stamina doing stuff you don't want to do, take a second job. That at least gives you real rewards.

ChiYeon
11-10-2012, 10:19 AM
I'm not quite sure how a dull grind is a challenge - it's obvious you will get there eventually. (unless the challenge is just whether you give up from boredom first? Which just sounds pointless and stupid, there's no reason to do something you dislike).

I was pertaining about 'sticking to one shit til I'd be able to finish it', so yeah you might be right about the boredom, I believe I did mention I have some game titles in mind (games I liked?)..and asked for other titles? aiigh?

deano2099
11-10-2012, 09:04 PM
I'm not quite sure how a dull grind is a challenge - it's obvious you will get there eventually. (unless the challenge is just whether you give up from boredom first? Which just sounds pointless and stupid, there's no reason to do something you dislike).

While that does apply to MMOs, it also applies to training for a marathon.

Ritashi
11-10-2012, 11:56 PM
Training for a marathon is physically healthy, and therefore even if you don't feel like it one day it's still a utility gain for you; you know it's good for you in the long run. It's also not something that literally anyone can do; boredom isn't the deciding factor so much as willingness to push yourself physically. It gets tiring, not boring; those are different things. And once you finish training for a marathon, you will presumably run a marathon, which comes with all sorts of benefits, both personal and social. If he was planning on playing the endgame and having fun on the tail end of the grind, I wouldn't use the same argument; perhaps I should have added on the end there "and isn't resulting in other benefits for you."

Edit: Another point, training for a marathon is only a challenge against your dedication, if that's what you were getting at. It's possibly worth doing for other reasons; not everything in life needs to be a challenge, and in fact a challenge against your dedication can be a good thing. But generally gaming is not a good place for you to challenge how long you can go doing something dull without getting so bored that you quit.

ChiYeon
12-10-2012, 07:03 AM
it really amaze me on how RPS turns a simple discussion into a debate =]

Squiz
12-10-2012, 08:20 AM
Well, your first post didn't really contain a lot of... things... to discuss so people are speaking their mind. It's a forum on the internet.

QuantaCat
12-10-2012, 08:38 AM
I think it would be awesome if there was a "win" situation.

Very unlikely, yes I know, but if someone managed to do something specific, then they or their team would "win" the game, and the servers get shut down.

Thanks for playing, it was a nice couple of years!

Hypernetic
12-10-2012, 11:48 AM
I think it would be awesome if there was a "win" situation.

Very unlikely, yes I know, but if someone managed to do something specific, then they or their team would "win" the game, and the servers get shut down.

Thanks for playing, it was a nice couple of years!


MMOs do have a "win condition" of sorts. For PVE it's basically whoever had the best overall ranking for raid progression (i.e. the guild with the most world first kills) in a tier. Then everyone starts all over again with the next tier. Think of it like seasons in sports.

QuantaCat
12-10-2012, 11:53 AM
MMOs do have a "win condition" of sorts. For PVE it's basically whoever had the best overall ranking for raid progression (i.e. the guild with the most world first kills) in a tier. Then everyone starts all over again with the next tier. Think of it like seasons in sports.

Yeah, which is not what I mean.

I mean, on the one hand you have the sandbox MMOs, which I happen to enjoy. And on the other you have the story/level progression ones, which have been mostly crap upto now.

But none that have a specific time or game limit. I would love to see one of those, basically one that has an expiration date of 1 or 2 years, and maybe provide a smaller experience, there would definitely be no free to play going on, and the entire development team could be on it, instead of just the skeleton crew that takes over after release, meaning heaps of content.

I guess thats comparable to a lot of regular multiplayer games these last couple of years, that just get the DLC and expansion treatment, though none with a specific end date that is openly released or spoken of as a feature. developers are afraid to end things, or atleast, publishers are.

Hypernetic
12-10-2012, 11:59 AM
Yeah, which is not what I mean.

I mean, on the one hand you have the sandbox MMOs, which I happen to enjoy. And on the other you have the story/level progression ones, which have been mostly crap upto now.

But none that have a specific time or game limit. I would love to see one of those, basically one that has an expiration date of 1 or 2 years, and maybe provide a smaller experience, there would definitely be no free to play going on, and the entire development team could be on it, instead of just the skeleton crew that takes over after release, meaning heaps of content.

I guess thats comparable to a lot of regular multiplayer games these last couple of years, that just get the DLC and expansion treatment, though none with a specific end date that is openly released or spoken of as a feature. developers are afraid to end things, or atleast, publishers are.

Yeah, I know what you meant. It's not practical at all from a financial standpoint.

Kannaaashi
15-10-2012, 08:33 AM
Guild wars 2 is definately a pvp mmo to it's core. If you are going to get it you should either expect about that month's worth of content or really enjoy pvp.

Yes, you're right but it is a bit pricey for some students but for me it is all worth it :D