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View Full Version : Doom 3 ReRelease Has Been Out, So, How Does It Look?



squirrel
17-10-2012, 03:58 PM
I played Doom 3 on original Xbox and it was quite a solid yet non-innovative shooter, even by the standard of 2005.

Of course, this is a rerelease, not a remake. So I reasonable expect no graphics improvement, as least not a major one.

I know this release would include Doom 1 and 2 as well, seems not announced before.

So, is it worth to try out? If so, at what price point you may suggest?

Mohorovicic
17-10-2012, 04:08 PM
I am interested too, I never got to play Doom 3 in the end and I hear they "fixed" the flashlight.

At the very least it's Doom 1 and 2 in a modern OS compatible format, right?

Bankrotas
17-10-2012, 04:19 PM
I am interested too, I never got to play Doom 3 in the end and I hear they "fixed" the flashlight.

At the very least it's Doom 1 and 2 in a modern OS compatible format, right?
I can't remember time, where I was a bit startled by Doom 1 or 2.

Ravelle
17-10-2012, 04:46 PM
Doom 1 and 2 were just first person shooters with monsters and everything was well lit, it was in Doom 3 where they decided to change it into a horror game.

I have it installed and will let you know what I think of it.

Shooop
18-10-2012, 05:45 PM
I can't imagine they've done anything really noticeable. Making it really look better would mean playing around with their fancy real-time lighting and it took them how many years to make that?


At the very least it's Doom 1 and 2 in a modern OS compatible format, right?

I got both of those from the iD Doom pack on Steam when it was on sale.

Scumbag
18-10-2012, 10:04 PM
If you have problems with Doom I or II, get the .iwad file for it then install something like ZDoom or Skulltag (http://www.skulltag.com/). Should work on newer systems / OSes without too many issues.

SephKing
19-10-2012, 01:10 AM
It plays exactly like old Doom 3 just with the flashlight/gun combo. Looks very similar too. MOdded Doom 3 looks better but here are some screens...
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1722-23-14-21.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-10-00-30.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-11-13-02.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-13-21-17.jpg

SephKing
19-10-2012, 01:11 AM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-14-53-19.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-19-25-86.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-21-25-19.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-23-50-71.jpg

SephKing
19-10-2012, 01:11 AM
http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-24-21-78.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-30-22-88.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-30-26-28.jpg

http://i142.photobucket.com/albums/r108/sephis85/Tres/Doom3BFG2012-10-1900-31-06-19.jpg

agentorange
19-10-2012, 01:29 AM
http://www.giantbomb.com/quick-look-doom-3-bfg-edition/17-6701/

It looks like an absolute joke. They've actually taken out numerous features, and not really replaced them with anything. No more dynamic shadows. No more flashlight. The guns have flashlights on them, which completely defeats the mood of all the levels. No graphics options on the PC version. The new chapter is banal shit boring.

So yeah. Just buy Doom 3 and install all the graphical mods that will make it look a thousand times better than this re-release.

The Tupper
19-10-2012, 01:47 AM
I liked the flashlight aspect of Doom 3. For those (if any) who don't know, the game required you to switch between your torch and weapons in dark, scary places. Not particularly realistic (maybe for a space plumber, but not a marine) but I liked it nonetheless.

Minecraft does something similar.

Hypernetic
19-10-2012, 02:20 AM
All of the info on this since it was announced has pointed to nothing more than it being a repackaging of the original with some extra levels and small tweaks. My friend bought this and was extremely upset because he felt ripped off. I asked him "What did you expect? It's an 8 year old game with some extra levels and lighting tweaks." and he told me to stfu.

=/ I don't know why anyone would have bought this unless they didn't own the original and wanted to play it.

SirKicksalot
19-10-2012, 02:50 AM
It looks like an absolute joke. They've actually taken out numerous features, and not really replaced them with anything. No more dynamic shadows. No graphics options on the PC version.


Only the flashlight doesn't cast shadows. What other options than those provided do you need? You want to play with low textures or something?

soldant
19-10-2012, 06:50 AM
No more dynamic shadows.
What? Dynamic shadows are still present, were you paying attention to the lights? There's no lightmapping here. The difference is that the flashlight no longer casts dynamic shadows, which is a fairly significant loss. The removal of the flashlight itself is an improvement - everyone installed Duct Tape Mod so that you could wield a gun and have a flashlight at the same time, because otherwise the "shadow = pitch black" lighting system made navigation a pain in the backside. I think that they've also added a bit of ambient light to help resolve the pitch black shadow issue too - lots of places look brighter than they did while still retaining shadows. Curiously, the flashlight's dynamic shadows does work in multiplayer (or so I'm told) so it may be a bug.


No graphics options on the PC version
If it were a modern game I'd agree, but given how old it is and how far the average gamer's hardware has advanced, do we really care? Back in the day you needed a fairly beefy GPU (9800Pro or similar) and 512MB of VRAM to get the most out of the game. We're well past that point today. Pretty much everything should be running it on Ultra quality (as it was back then) so the only settings that really matter are resolution, vsync, AA, and motion blur (all of which are options).

For reference, the game is effectively running on High/Ultra quality - the difference between the two was to do with texture compression, because back in 2004 video cards with 512MB of VRAM (recommended for Ultra back then) weren't that common in the hands of gamers. There is no reason to play with the quality settings today, most gaming hardware won't have any trouble with it. You shouldn't need to turn off shadows, or bumpmapping...


The real issue is that apart from bundling everything together and the rather unremarkable new chapter is that it's probably not worth the asking price. If it was a lot cheaper and you'd missed any part of the series I'd probably recommend it, but as it is I don't know...

Sketch
19-10-2012, 07:54 AM
Seems like they wanted an excuse to get the games out on 360 and PS3 properly, and the PC version was just included as well. Nothing to see here.

Patrick Swayze
19-10-2012, 10:02 AM
I think I'll get this on my ps3 instead of PC.

Be nice to have the old dooms on console with it, but also the 3D support.

I imagine Doom3 will be awesome in 3D.

Finicky
19-10-2012, 10:50 AM
Doom 3 wasn't a good game back in 2004 either, why'd it be different now:p

Bought it at release and I was quite excited for it.
It was just cheap scares (which stop being effective really fast, after an hour I was just bolting through it as if it was doom 1).
The cramped environments and slow pace made it a lot less fun gameplaywise than it could have been.

Maybe things get better in the second half of the game, I really wouldn't know as I never felt like playing it again after ending a session less than halfway through. Mainly because I was just bored during the last session, had better games to play.
It didn't run well on my radeon 9800 pro either, 20-30 fps on high (not ultra) just isn't acceptable, and other than the graphics it didn't have much going for it.

Doom 3 is probably one of my first regrettable purchases on pc alongside black & white.

Anthile
19-10-2012, 01:32 PM
That's pretty much what I expected. That combined with the hefty €30 price tag borders on scam. One really has to wonder what the hell they were thinking at Bethesda.

soldant
19-10-2012, 01:45 PM
It didn't run well on my radeon 9800 pro either, 20-30 fps on high (not ultra) just isn't acceptable, and other than the graphics it didn't have much going for it.
To be fair, Doom 3 had full dynamic lighting without lightmaps, which kept the lighting uniform across all objects. That needed a lot of grunt to run, something that wasn't common back then.

I totally agree about D3 devolving into a load of cheap scares and monster closets (even though I actually liked the game) but as a piece of technology it was fairly impressive. It was great that models didn't stick out like a cartoon because they weren't affected by the static lightmapping. Source engine, meanwhile, is still predominately on lightmaps, which leads to a few artefacts (particularly with shadows and dynamic objects).

Shooop
19-10-2012, 04:46 PM
I just now realized the Mars base is pretty dark in many places even before all hell breaks loose.

Do workers on Mars not have unions so they can demand safer working conditions?

Patrick Swayze
19-10-2012, 08:51 PM
Despite Doom 3 not been the game people expected, can people not at least acknowledge it was in fact a good game, discounting it's title?

SirKicksalot
19-10-2012, 09:13 PM
It's great and had one of the last awesome expansions before the DLC madness started.

I replayed it last year. It holds up better than Far Cry, HL2 and FEAR.

johnki
19-10-2012, 09:22 PM
I didn't read every post, so I don't know if this has been mentioned, but this was the flagship title for Occulus Rift when they were Kickstarting the OR. It would be reasonable to assume that a big part of this re-release is Occulus Rift compatibility.

Revisor
19-10-2012, 09:25 PM
Doom 3 was a bad game when it appeared and the new version is locked down and with a smaller FOV, thus even worse.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-19-doom-3-bfg-edition-review
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-whats-new-for-pc-doom-3-bfg-edition


No advanced graphics settings, no field-of-view adjustments, no out of the box support for mods - on first loading up Doom 3: BFG Edition, it's difficult to avoid the impression that id Software has turned its back on the PC fanbase that supported it for so many years.
And a failed try at optimism in an otherwise very critical article

While id has pared back graphics options extensively, the good news is that the drop-down console is still there (enabled with a launch switch) and the autoexec.cfg file can be modded to restore the original lighting, change the field of view and tweak the position of the view weapon

Yeah, at least the console is still there.

LTK
19-10-2012, 09:26 PM
I just now realized the Mars base is pretty dark in many places even before all hell breaks loose.

Do workers on Mars not have unions so they can demand safer working conditions?
Well, compared to what the miners in Red Faction have to deal with, I'd say the guys in Doom got off lightly.

Patrick Swayze
19-10-2012, 11:00 PM
Doom 3 was a bad game when it appeared and the new version is locked down and with a smaller FOV, thus even worse.
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2012-10-19-doom-3-bfg-edition-review
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-whats-new-for-pc-doom-3-bfg-edition


And a failed try at optimism in an otherwise very critical article


Yeah, at least the console is still there.

It's PC, we can fix this shit. Also, Eurogamer have always had a righteous boner against Doom3

Revisor
19-10-2012, 11:39 PM
"We" already fixed what we could 8 years ago. This version just discards all the work.

And unfortunately you cannot fix bad gameplay.

SirKicksalot
19-10-2012, 11:44 PM
Good thing Doom 3 has good gameplay, then. No-nonsense manly shooter FTW.

Also, John Carmack ‏@ID_AA_Carmack (https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack) Got approval for GPL release of Doom 3 BFG code (minus third party bits)! @idBrianHarris (https://twitter.com/idBrianHarris) has already done most of the work.

BathroomCitizen
19-10-2012, 11:45 PM
Well, look at the bright side of this release: maybe the multiplayer deathmatch servers will have some population just for a little while.

soldant
20-10-2012, 01:41 AM
Good thing Doom 3 has good gameplay, then. No-nonsense manly shooter FTW.
I'm a fan of Doom 3 and think that it gets way more of a bashing than it deserves (anyone who was expecting Serious Sam 3 with Imps and Cacodemons was blind, didn't they look at any of the pre-launch media?) but it does have some fairly big issues.

Firstly, it relies on monster closets and backwards spawns. Oh look that Imp just spawned behind me, and that panel fell down and there's a zombie, oh my gooood. Curiously though Doom and Doom 2 pulled the exact same trick of doors opening behind you and spilling out their contents of demons, and people call that a feature and good level design, so go figure...

The biggest issue though is the pacing. Namely it never stops, it's a constant fight from point A to point B. Downtime is fairly limited. You don't get a break from when hell breaks loose up until the monorail, and even then it's a small break. That was the real issue with the game.

Melan
20-10-2012, 10:26 AM
"We" already fixed what we could 8 years ago. This version just discards all the work.

And unfortunately you cannot fix bad gameplay.
They could have just paid Sikkmod & Co. a wad of cash, added the extra levels and packaged it as a new release. That would have been a product with added value. This one, not so much.

RakeShark
20-10-2012, 10:47 AM
I'm a fan of Doom 3 and think that it gets way more of a bashing than it deserves (anyone who was expecting Serious Sam 3 with Imps and Cacodemons was blind, didn't they look at any of the pre-launch media?) but it does have some fairly big issues.

Firstly, it relies on monster closets and backwards spawns. Oh look that Imp just spawned behind me, and that panel fell down and there's a zombie, oh my gooood. Curiously though Doom and Doom 2 pulled the exact same trick of doors opening behind you and spilling out their contents of demons, and people call that a feature and good level design, so go figure...

The biggest issue though is the pacing. Namely it never stops, it's a constant fight from point A to point B. Downtime is fairly limited. You don't get a break from when hell breaks loose up until the monorail, and even then it's a small break. That was the real issue with the game.

To be civil about disagreeing with you...

The problem with the monster closets and jump scares in Doom 3 was that there was no frantic fight-or-flight option. The claustrophobic nature of the level design pretty much meant you only turned around to shoot what was behind you for one second, then move forward. Like a ratchet pretty much, and backtracking was from my memory almost always blocked or scripted. In Doom 1&2, players created their own pace breaks by clearing out rooms and running back to them should things get hairy going forward.

It just felt like to me the pattern was minutes of boredom and a second or two of being spooked. While I'm not a leading authority of what makes Doom "Doom", I feel like that was the weakness of Doom 3.

Bankrotas
20-10-2012, 11:00 AM
I did like Doom 3, since I had no good sound system and I was young enough to get into game too much. Jump scares were great scares for a teenager me back in the day.

hamster
20-10-2012, 11:33 AM
The enemies weren't too fun to fight either. The first time you meet an imp it's damn intimidating and everything and walks towards you (scripted to do so) and so you frantically shoot it once, twice - and oh it's dead. Thereafter without the scripting instead of lunging at you like a demon from hell the thing just stands there rooted to the ground lobbing slow moving fireballs. C'mon man. I also agree that the environments could be improved to encourage variety in combat. And enemies should be placed in levels organically rather than spawned behind the player. This is something that they should've been shooting for since doom 3 was designed as horror game. Instead we got a strange sort of hybrid. Still, I scare easy and because of the graphics and generally dark environments in the game i got spooked a little.

Design-wise though, it could've been 100x better. They can keep the enemy count low but the enemies need to STAND OUT. Key to any horror game.

Stense
20-10-2012, 11:35 AM
I actually really enjoyed Doom 3. I'm a slow player and not very good with the Serious Sam style kablam-o-thons so I found the more sedate pace of Doom 3 did fit my style. This re-release does seem pretty disappointingly lazy though. Has anyone played the new campaign?

mashakos
20-10-2012, 12:09 PM
The biggest issue though is the pacing. Namely it never stops, it's a constant fight from point A to point B. Downtime is fairly limited. You don't get a break from when hell breaks loose up until the monorail, and even then it's a small break. That was the real issue with the game.
I thought I was going to get a horror game with the atmosphere of the original Aliens movie after seeing "dat Apple keynote" where John Carmack unveiled Doom 3:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=o_buON1G17E#t=296s

Look at the atmosphere in that demo! I was not expecting closet scare nonsense.
I was so excited that I shelled out a significant amount on a Geforce 6800GT when Doom 3 launched. The only good thing to come out of playing Doom 3 was the knowledge that my card could run it at 60fps.

Kadayi
20-10-2012, 12:35 PM
And unfortunately you cannot fix bad gameplay.

^ word

I hated the whole 'clear the room then find zombies mysteriously behind you BS' however at the same time I kind of liked the graphical look/lighting and I really dug the ingame UI stuff (which was pretty innovative at the time).

SirKicksalot
20-10-2012, 01:46 PM
Many Doom 3 enemies spawn randomly in a bubble around the player.


They could have just paid Sikkmod & Co. a wad of cash, added the extra levels and packaged it as a new release. That would have been a product with added value. This one, not so much.

Why pay Sikkmod's creator? id already released a broken game on ATI cards last year, I don't think two in a row would do any good.

soldant
20-10-2012, 02:17 PM
Thereafter without the scripting instead of lunging at you like a demon from hell the thing just stands there rooted to the ground lobbing slow moving fireballs.
The AI lunging attacks etc weren't always scripted - you could set up triggers to force that behaviour (eg jumping at you from a door) but otherwise they could use their attacks as they liked. D3's AI was a bit odd with pathfinding (IIRC from when I used to make maps for it, it'd compile the nav mesh along with the rest of the map) and id deliberately fenced monsters in with certain brushes for some weird reason.

Same with OMGBEHINDYOU spawns - they were all deliberately scripted that way by the level designer. It wouldn't have been difficult for them to set up more creative entrances for Imps and stuff - the animations were reusable provided you built the map around the animation, so why they didn't do it is a mystery to me.


Why pay Sikkmod's creator? id already released a broken game on ATI cards last year, I don't think two in a row would do any good.
Rage being broken on ATI cards was AMD's fault for not having the updated drivers ready.

Patrick Swayze
20-10-2012, 07:26 PM
How is this working on ATI/AMD cards btw?

Fail driver support bg bg

SirKicksalot
20-10-2012, 11:58 PM
Some 3D impressions:

Fucking fail.
This is an OpenGL game so the stereo is native - no 3D Vision options work on it. It handles a lot of modes, which is nice. Unfortunately the in-game 3D options are awful. There's only a shitty offset slider. Convergence options are missing. The ghosting is HORRIBLE. It's a pretty damn flat image by default and increasing image separation makes ghosting worse.
So I created an autoexec.cfg, figured out the stereo commands and experimented a bit. This can also be done through the console. Convergence can be modified this way, but it breaks the weapon view. I eventually nailed some comfortable 3D settings but they make the weapon 1/10th of the normal size, so fuck that. I'll just use the default settings and wait for the Oculus Rift to hit the market.

A bit of googling revealed this (http://www.mtbs3d.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?f=59&t=15631):

We struggled a lot with the gun in stereoscopic views. FPS guns are almost always positioned in a physically unrealistic position to maximize 2D artistic impact, which is a big problem in stereo. With lots of guns and lots of animations, there isn't as much freedom to move them around as we would like. For the shipping game it was important that they never show clipped geometry, never penetrate into a wall, always allow the ammo readouts to be visible, and not have the muzzle firing point be too far away from the standard position. If you are willing to compromise some or all of those factors, you can improve the 3D effect.

Next game, we will be designing for stereo from the start.

I like fully realistic separation, but that actually exceeds one platform's submission guidelines, and we have been told that most people don't really want that much separation.

The stereoRender_deGhost variable does nothing in the shipping code. Earlier, I experimented with reducing the contrast and subtracting a fraction of the opposite eye, but it still wouldn't turn a bad 3D monitor into a good one, and I decided to just pull it out.

John Carmack

SirKicksalot
23-10-2012, 09:00 PM
First patch will add options for FoV and flashlight shadows. Two screenshots here (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197971402380/screenshots). The shadows look bad, I'll keep them off.

Patrick Swayze
23-10-2012, 09:29 PM
First patch will add options for FoV and flashlight shadows. Two screenshots here (http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197971402380/screenshots). The shadows look bad, I'll keep them off.

Looks like Doom 3 shadows to me.

Is there an ETA on that patch?

May hold off playing any more if its due within the next few days...

soldant
24-10-2012, 02:00 AM
Looks like Doom 3 shadows to me.
Yup. Doom 3 shadows had the issue of shadow = pitch black unless you had a bunch of light sources shining near it, which not only made the lighting and bumpmapping look terrible but sent the framerate down to single digits (at least back in 2004).

SirKicksalot
24-10-2012, 04:58 AM
The angle of the light is different so they look weird compared to the original's.

squareking
01-08-2013, 07:47 PM
Bump for Quakecon sale.

So I'm pretty much fine with the non-BFG-ed. Doom 3 + DLC, right? I, uh, might maybe kinda possibly miss not having Steam Achieveos™ and the Lost Level thing, but otherwise it's a nonessential upgrade, correct? I'm asking to post-rationalize the fact that I've already bought it. :derp:

soldant
02-08-2013, 01:38 AM
So I'm pretty much fine with the non-BFG-ed. Doom 3 + DLC, right? I, uh, might maybe kinda possibly miss not having Steam Achieveos™ and the Lost Level thing, but otherwise it's a nonessential upgrade, correct? I'm asking to post-rationalize the fact that I've already bought it. :derp:
It's Doom 3 + expansion (hardly DLC, this was pre-DLC days after all) and a bunch of levels that never made it... plus the original Dooms. The engine has had some tweaks and some things have changed as we've been over here. It's not a bad compilation particularly if you didn't have RoE before (it's not a bad expansion), if it was cheap I wouldn't regret it unless you hated D3.