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WombatDeath
15-07-2011, 10:30 PM
Would anyone be interested in a Dark Elimination tournament or league when Inverselaw's tournament is over?

Peter Radiator Full Pig
16-07-2011, 11:10 PM
Why wait? Make it symmetrical, and possible choose interesting maps, instead of random ones, and Im in. Best of three with all matches played at the same time, on three different maps?

Web Cole
17-07-2011, 10:08 AM
A League would seem like a good idea, something a bit different to run alongside Inverslaws Cup.

Jolima
17-07-2011, 10:26 AM
Heh, you could even have a league with all matches being simultaneous. Any way you do it I'll probably be in.

ChainsawHands
17-07-2011, 01:59 PM
I'm in.

(God damn 10 character minimum, "I'm in" is a perfectly acceptable message!)

MasterBoo
17-07-2011, 04:10 PM
I'm in as well.

RiseandShock
17-07-2011, 06:40 PM
I would probably join in depending on the date ^^

desvergeh
18-07-2011, 10:23 AM
Sign me up as interested.

Please don't go too overboard with number of simultaneous matches. What with this, bloodbowl league, Solium Infernum and my wife WoW addiction I need some free time to go to work and stuff!

Would also like the possibility of different match types. Happy for it to be elimination for a while, but do find the other types interesting too. So would be nice if they crept in further down the line somewhere.

Cooper
18-07-2011, 12:42 PM
Well in. I'd much prefer a symmetrical d.elim for a tournament myself.

Vexing Vision
18-07-2011, 02:40 PM
I prefer random and a best of three or five, but I'm in for a Dark Elimination league.

As long as I have more time than a week. :)

Web Cole
18-07-2011, 03:31 PM
Might be cool to set up a league similar to the Blood Bowl Divisions of Death idea; have x number of divisions with x numbers of people and a season lasts so long. With being able to play simultaneous games a season could even be 2 weeks or so, although I don't think a LOT of simultaneous games is a good idea.

I would also be in favour of just Dark Extermination, but I don't mind so much.

circle
18-07-2011, 05:50 PM
I'll play. As long as it's dark I'll give anything a try.

WombatDeath
18-07-2011, 07:27 PM
Excellent, sounds as though we should have enough people to form the first division of a league. I think that if we can hammer out the details this week we can start next week with whoever's signed up by the weekend.

Here are some initial thoughts/questions for discussion this week, all comments welcome (I don't pretend to be an expert):

1) Game mode / map type
I suggest Dark Extermination, random maps, symmetrical. Non-random maps might get a bit boring (and more time-consuming to administer), and asymmetrical gives the challenger a lot of temptation to re-roll.

2) Format
League, one division (unless we get a lot of sign-ups in the next few days, in which case two divisions with randomly-assigned placement). I suggest one game per pairing for the first season, so that we can be finished quickly, and then we can consider best of three and any other changes for season two. I'd like to avoid a protracted first season with summer holidays on the horizon.

3) Simultaneous / sequential matches
I'm a torn on this one. On one hand I don't want people to be overwhelmed by having lots of matches in one go, but on the other any timing restrictions would be pretty arbitrary. On balance I think I'm inclined to set an overall limit (two weeks?) and have people play their matches at any time within that window, but would appreciate any other opinions.

4) Scoring
3 points for a win, 1 for a draw. "Goal difference" (units killed vs. units lost) tallied and used as a tie-breaker in the final standings.

5) Forfeiture
I suppose it's a default win for the opponent. Don't much like that but I can't think of anything fairer.

6) Challenges
I don't think it makes any difference using symmetric maps, so shall we say "lower rank challenges higher"? Obviously ranks will be assigned randomly for the first season.

7) Promotion / relegation
I don't expect it will be relevant for season one, but if we end up with more than one division I assume we'll use some kind of FA-type system. I don't think we need to decide on the details now.

Please feel free to weigh in (or not, if you're happy to just play anything) on these and any topics I've forgotten to consider.

Web Cole
19-07-2011, 01:43 PM
That all seems reasonable to me. As long as we don't have large divisions (say 6-8 people per div) I don't think the simultaneous games would get out of hand. I suppose challenging doesn't matter as long as we're doing symmetric maps right enough, although it does mean some people will be making quite a lot of challenges ;)

Vexing Vision
19-07-2011, 02:31 PM
I'm still interested, but would like to hear general opinion about timeframe before comitting. I find the "10 days +/- 2" for Bloodbowl per match suiting perfect.

Protagoras
19-07-2011, 02:32 PM
I'm in as well.

WombatDeath
19-07-2011, 02:53 PM
I'm still interested, but would like to hear general opinion about timeframe before comitting. I find the "10 days +/- 2" for Bloodbowl per match suiting perfect.
Can you expand on this a bit? My initial proposal is that we set a time window (e.g. two weeks) in which all matches will be played. I don't think that's very onerous if we have reasonably small leagues but it's obviously up for discussion.

One benefit of having a relatively short window, aside from the avoidance of having it dragging on for ages and people losing interest, is that we can have a quick turnaround of seasons. If someone's going to be on holiday for a couple of weeks it doesn't matter, they can just join in the next season. We could perhaps even have a "holiday mode" where standings are maintained (to some extent) when someone skips a season or two, though at this point I have no idea how that would work.

CMaster
19-07-2011, 02:53 PM
I think all matches simultaneous, leave a good period of time for them sounds like the best solution.
I'd like to take part as well, naturally.

WombatDeath
19-07-2011, 03:02 PM
What do you all think about two weeks? Too long/short/about right?

ChainsawHands
19-07-2011, 04:00 PM
I'd strongly recommend sequential matches, with a spreadsheet (or whatever) that very very clearly shows who is supposed to be playing who. Otherwise things will start of with a huge burst of enthusiasm but then people will get confused and lose interest, and if you're lucky half the matches will actually end up getting played.

Web Cole
19-07-2011, 05:07 PM
I'd strongly recommend sequential matches, with a spreadsheet (or whatever) that very very clearly shows who is supposed to be playing who. Otherwise things will start of with a huge burst of enthusiasm but then people will get confused and lose interest, and if you're lucky half the matches will actually end up getting played.

Might be a reasonable point. If we did this 2 weeks would probably be too little time for one season (unless Divisions were very small, say 4 people.)

WombatDeath
22-07-2011, 10:11 PM
I take Chainsaw's point, but for this first attempt I think we can keep the effort required low enough that simultaneous matches will be practical, and I'd like to get it wrapped up quickly.

The people who've expressed interest are:

Peter Radiator Full Pig
Web Cole
Jolima
Chainsaw Hands
MasterBoo
RiseandShock
susanexpress1
desvergeh
Cooper
Vexing Vision
circle
Protagoras
CMaster
WombatDeath

That's 14 people, though I expect that a few may drop out. If we have fewer than twelve players we'll just have one division; if it's twelve or more we'll have two.

We will kick things off on August 1st, and the matches will take place over a maximum of two weeks. If you still want to participate, please add yourself to this Google spreadsheet (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?pli=1&key=0AvmG4SoJhEYbdFgtbjN3VFE4OUxQTEtSLWVoVmJGX3c&hl=en_GB#gid=0). Next weekend (30-31 July) I will randomise the players and make it clear who needs to challenge who. (Whom? Never mind). Anyone who hasn't yet expressed interest is welcome to add themselves to the spreadsheet.

ColOfNature
23-07-2011, 12:11 AM
I've added myself.

CMaster
23-07-2011, 01:07 AM
Susanexpress1 is a spam bot, so I'd scratch that one. I definitely think simultaneous matches is the way to go - people can still play sequentially within that if they like.

Wolfenswan
23-07-2011, 02:23 AM
If there's still room i'll join otherwise looking forward to watch the games on yt.

Edit: added myself

Vexing Vision
23-07-2011, 11:02 AM
Two weeks is too fast for me currently (especially in August where at least an entire week will disappear down the drain of life that is GamesCom), so I'll drop out but will keep an eye on this for future seasons.

Good luck!

Peter Radiator Full Pig
23-07-2011, 01:18 PM
I think Ive added myself. Sorry to hear youve dropped out, Vexing. I wanted to play you in the sumer cup, but alas it wasnt to be.

Vexing Vision
23-07-2011, 02:26 PM
Feel free to challenge me in the game for a friendly whatever match. :) I'm just not able to fire up the game very often.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
23-07-2011, 04:54 PM
I put my name is A6, but I did not put that moustached smiley (?Think thats what it is) in F6. I swear.

Protagoras
24-07-2011, 07:32 AM
I put my name is A6, but I did not put that moustached smiley (?Think thats what it is) in F6. I swear.

God, that is obviously a sunglasses wearing, winking, broadly smiling smiley face.

You need to brush up on your smiley-tology...

P.S.
This totally doesn't mean I put the smiley there. Just passing by.

ascagnel
24-07-2011, 03:49 PM
I'd love to do this, and maybe I can get a few meatspace friends in to have two good divisions, what with this weekend's sale. A week is a good timeframe -- as long as the games aren't disrupted by the whole time zone thing (I can only play 7-11 GMT-5, so for anyone in Britain it'd be an issue to match turns at midnight thru 4am, and seven plus turns is cutting it a bit close).

WombatDeath
24-07-2011, 09:51 PM
If there's still room i'll join otherwise looking forward to watch the games on yt.
The more the merrier; add yourself to the list!

measurements
24-07-2011, 11:20 PM
I don't know how to add myself to the list. I am a noob.

I will probably lose every round I'm no good at this game yet. Or ever.

WombatDeath
25-07-2011, 12:37 AM
I've added measurements to the list.

WombatDeath
28-07-2011, 12:22 AM
Last call for sign-ups! Wolfenswan, are you still interested?

Peter Radiator Full Pig
28-07-2011, 03:03 PM
There is a tournament patch coming next week to steam! Should it be put off till then?

ColOfNature
28-07-2011, 03:09 PM
Probably a good idea. The tournament interface looks nice and straightforward and should make things a lot easier. With any luck the next patch will add knockout tourneys too.

WombatDeath
28-07-2011, 05:36 PM
That's good timing, and thank you for pointing this out! Does anyone know if the new tournament interfaces supports league-style events? If so we will delay the start of this until the patch is out.

ColOfNature
28-07-2011, 06:00 PM
From the blog post (http://www.mode7games.com/blog/2011/07/28/patch-beta-released/):


...you can easily put everyone [...] into a tourny and have an all-play-all mini-championship. We will be working [...] to improve this feature, adding requested features.So currently it's just a league-type tourney, but they're adding stuff.

Roarster
29-07-2011, 09:36 AM
I've added myself to this as well. Go easy on me!

WombatDeath
31-07-2011, 07:58 PM
I'd planned to randomise the players and create the two divisions today, but with the patch on its way I think it makes more sense to wait a few days. I will post an update this week.

MasterBoo
01-08-2011, 08:05 AM
Added myself (as Indigon, my ingame nick).

ComradePenguin
02-08-2011, 12:39 AM
I have also added myself if that's okay.

SF Legend
02-08-2011, 04:05 PM
Added myself, hopefully it's not too late.

WombatDeath
03-08-2011, 12:10 AM
Excellent, welcome to the three of you!

WombatDeath
05-08-2011, 02:26 AM
Anyone know when this patch is out? If it's not available by the weekend I'll kick things off the old-fashioned way.

ColOfNature
05-08-2011, 04:23 AM
The non-Steam version is available, but Valve are taking their own sweet time about rolling it out. It was supposed to be this week some time, so maybe give it until Monday?

zuddy
05-08-2011, 04:32 AM
If you're still taking signups I'm in. I've taken the liberty of adding myself to the spreadsheet as mdean, but if it's too late then that's fine.

I'm rubbish at this game.

El_Murph
05-08-2011, 12:36 PM
I've snuck myself on the list as elmurph - hopefully not too late!

WombatDeath
05-08-2011, 09:10 PM
Yes, you're both in time! I'm going to draw up the divisions over the weekend, and if there's still no firm ETA for the Steam patch on Monday I'll get things underway in this thread.

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 12:43 AM
No sign of a Steam patch so I've added some tabs to the spreadsheet (https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvmG4SoJhEYbdFgtbjN3VFE4OUxQTEtSLWVoVmJGX 3c&hl=en_GB#gid=1).

The first tab is the league tables! We have eighteen sign-ups so I have created two divisions and assigned the players to them by an ingenious proprietary algorithm (alphabetical order). This means that we each have eight games to play.

Important: each player has the responsibility of challenging every player above him/her in the appropriate division. That means that Indigon in division one has to issue eight challenges (sorry Indigon) and I have to do the same in division two. ChainsawHands, in division one, only has to issue two challenges (antilope and ascagnel).

If you are unsure who you should be challenging, look at the second and third tabs on the spreadsheet. You need to issue a challenge for each game in which you are Player 1.

Game rules and league procedures

1) Each game must conform to the following settings:

Mode: Dark Elimination
Map type: symmetrical
Turn limit: eight turns
Turn duration: five seconds per turn (i.e. 5000 milliseconds - this is the default setting)
Visibility: vis at time zero
Team strength: minimum of two men per player (the same for each player, of course)
Server: UK1

Any game that does not conform to these rules will be void and must be replayed. Please see this post (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?720-Frozen-Synapse-Dark-Elimination-event&p=23511&viewfull=1#post23511) if you're not sure how to create a game with the correct settings.

2) After creating each game on server UK1, the challenger must state the challenge in this thread. Format: "[Player1] has challenged [Player2] in game [game ID]".

3) After each game has been completed, the player accepting the challenge (you lot might as well have some work to do) must report the result in this thread. Standard format: "[Victorious player] has defeated [defeated player] in game [game ID] by [number of men killed by victorious player] men to [number of men killed by defeated player]".

In the event of a draw, the format is "[Challenging player] and [challenged player] have drawn in game [game ID], killing [number of men killed per player] men each."

I will update the spreadsheet with the result.

4) Challengers may start issuing their challenges from today (Monday 8th August). All games must be completed by the end of Sunday 21st August, British Summer Time.

5) We're all reasonable people, probably, so some flexibility will be applied. If you're going to be on holiday, or dead, or otherwise restricted in your availability, please post in this thread and we will try to accommodate you as far as is reasonably practical.

6) Try to start your games in the first week and finish them early. Players leaving it to the last minute to issue a challenge or submit orders risk forfeiting the game. If any game is unfinished by the deadline I will use my discretion and award points to one, both or neither player, depending on the circumstances.

7) Since this is the first season and the standings are randomly assigned, the top four players in division 2 will be promoted to division 1. The bottom four players in division 1 will be demoted to division 2.

8) Any circumstances not catered for in these rules will be handled according to some combination of common sense, consensus, whimsy and iron-fisted authoritarianism.

I'm aware that some players may be new so I will try to post a guide to creating games tomorrow (edit: here it is (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?720-Frozen-Synapse-Dark-Elimination-event&p=23511&viewfull=1#post23511)). Please shout if anything above is unclear/unfair/wrong/stupid.

Good luck!

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 01:49 AM
5) We're all reasonable people
I resent that!

ColOfNature has challenged antilope in game 184688
ColOfNature has challenged antilope in game 184689
ColOfNature has challenged ascagnel in game 184693
ColOfNature has challenged ChainsawHands in game 184695
ColOfNature has challenged circle2 in game 184698
ColOfNature has challenged CMaster in game 184699

I've said it before, so I'll say it again: I'm a numpty. antilope - sorry about the duplicate challenge, I'll let you choose which of them you want to be official. Either ignore one of them, or we can play them both - in which case tell me which you want to count in the league (preferably before we play it!)

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 02:52 AM
Fool that I am, I forgot to specify a server. As per my edited rules, all matches are to be played on UK1.

I don't know which server ColOfNature issued his challenges on, but those particular challenges (and only those) are valid regardless of server. All others must be on UK1 to be valid. Col, if you picked a different server please post it in this thread so that your opponents know where to look.

I also forgot to specify a turn limit! The limit is eight turns. Again, all challenges issued before I edited this in are valid.

Did I forget to mention anything else? All games must be Frozen Synapse; any challenges to a game of Go or Hide and Seek will not be regarded as valid in this tournament.

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 02:54 AM
No worries, they're on UK1.

circle
08-08-2011, 02:56 AM
circle2 has defeated ColOfNature in game 184698

I think we're ok on servers. They've been encouraging everyone to play on UK1 except to finish existing games on other servers. Or so I saw in the daily news.

circle
08-08-2011, 03:04 AM
oops, clicked create game instead of advanced antilope... feel free to ignore it if you so choose...

Here are my proper challenges...

circle2 has challenged antilope in game 184799
circle2 has challenged ascagnel in game 184801
circle2 has challenged ChainsawHands in game 184803

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 03:09 AM
WombatDeath - I've made you a mod in the Steam group (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rpsyn), in case you want to make any announcements or whatever.

Everyone else - why not join the group (http://steamcommunity.com/groups/rpsyn) and subscribe to the YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/RockPaperSynapse)?

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 03:32 AM
Thanks Col! I will take a look tomorrow when I am well rested and less likely to inadvertently break things.

I have also amended the number of turns per game (8) and added the "goal difference" to the reporting format. No need for any changes to the report of ColOfNature vs. circle2; I've added that result to the spreadsheet.

ascagnel
08-08-2011, 03:40 AM
Whelp, looks like I've recorded the first loss, to ColOfNature. Derptastic play on my part. And YouTube recording crashed my game too :(

desvergeh
08-08-2011, 12:42 PM
Ooops missed the google spreadsheet. Thought I was in to participate. For the best though as I am away for 2 weeks soon.

Good luck in the season guys, hopefully I can make the next one.

ComradePenguin
08-08-2011, 01:53 PM
Are we doing vis at time zero or vis on sight? And I assume standard 5 second turns.

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 02:10 PM
I did vis at time zero, 5 second turns, 8 turns. Also, I made sure there were at least 2 guys on each team (I think there are at least 3, in fact) cos it generated a couple of 1-v-1s, and a 0-v-0 on one occasion. Which would have been a short game.

Inverselaw
08-08-2011, 02:15 PM
vis at time zero means that everyone can see every unit at the start of match, vis on sight means only with line of site, then the last one is something like vis all the time which is for light matches.

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 02:25 PM
I suppose in a symmetrical match-up vis or not at t=0 doesn't make much difference - you know where they're going to be.

ComradePenguin
08-08-2011, 02:36 PM
I suppose in a symmetrical match-up vis or not at t=0 doesn't make much difference - you know where they're going to be.

Heh, excellent point. I suspect the fact I hadn't thought of this may spell out how I'm going to do.

EDIT:
ComradePenguin has challenged ColOfNature in game 185573
ComradePenguin has challenged CMaster in game 185570
ComradePenguin has challenged circle2 in game 185569
ComradePenguin has challenged ChainsawHands in game 185567
ComradePenguin has challenged ascagnel in game 185565
ComradePenguin has challenged antilope in game 185563

zuddy
08-08-2011, 03:36 PM
Seeing as I'm a complete idiot, I accidentally challenged Jolima to game 185629, and it is not symmetrical and I am not even sure if it conforms to the turn limit, etc. How does one set all that? I can't seem to find it in Advanced Options, unless it's just automatically handled by the game.

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 03:42 PM
After you generate the map, click submit and it gives you the option to set the parameters on the screen where you enter your opponent's name. You should only need to set it once as it remembers the details, just change the name in subsequent challenges.

zuddy
08-08-2011, 03:45 PM
Boy, am I stupid, haha. Thanks for the help :)

mdean has challenged Jolima in game 185649

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 04:35 PM
I've added requirements for 5-second turns, vis at time zero, at least two men per player. Thank you for pointing out these things!

As before, any games created before I edited in these requirements will be valid.

Please could the people reporting the results make sure that they include the number of men killed per side (see reporting format in point 3 of this post (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?720-Frozen-Synapse-Dark-Elimination-event&p=23320&viewfull=1#post23320)). This will make it much easier for me to keep the spreadsheet up-to-date. The results posted so far don't need to be edited; the reporting format is something else which I added after we started.

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 05:03 PM
How to create a game with the correct settings

This may be useful to those newer to Frozen Synapse:

1) Log in to server UK1.
2) Click the 'Multiplayer' button at the top of the screen
3) Click 'Create a game'
4) Set the game mode to Dark Extermination
5) Click the 'Advanced setup' button
6) Ignore the scary warning and click 'OK'
7) Click the 'Generate symmetrical' button
8) If you get a silly map, or if you have fewer than two players per side, go back to (7) and repeat until you're happy
9) Click the 'Submit' button
10) Ensure that the 'Game mode' is set to 'Extermination'
11) Ensure that the 'Vis mode' is set to 'Vis at time zero'
12) Ensure that the 'Turn limit' is set to 8 (and the 'Turn length' to 5000, which is the default)
13) Enter your opponent's username
14) Enter 'RPS Dark Elimination League' or something suitable so that your opponent knows it's for this league
15) Click the 'Submit' button.
16) Take your first turn and note the challenge in this thread, using the format in point 2 of this post (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?720-Frozen-Synapse-Dark-Elimination-event&p=23320&viewfull=1#post23320).

If last night is anything to go by there will be at least six errors/omissions in the above, so please let me know if you spot one.

Wolfenswan
08-08-2011, 05:57 PM
Just to clarify things.

antilope has been challenged by circle2 in game 184799
antilope has been challenged by ColOfNature in game 184688 (what an interesting map)
ComradePenguin has challenged antilope in game 185563

ColOfNature
08-08-2011, 06:07 PM
Is 184688 the one we're playing for the league then? It looks like it could easily be over in one turn...

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 06:41 PM
WombatDeath has challenged Web_cole in game 185769
WombatDeath has challenged SFLegend in game 185778
WombatDeath has challenged Roarster in game 185808
WombatDeath has challenged Protagoras in game 185842

I'll start the other four later this week.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
08-08-2011, 08:20 PM
Crakker has challanged Jolima in game 186028
Crakker has challanged mdean in game 186020
Crakker has challanged measurements in game 186017

WombatDeath
08-08-2011, 09:40 PM
That's a good point - please let me know if your FS name is different from your forum name so that I can add it to the spreadsheet.

SF Legend
08-08-2011, 09:54 PM
SFLegend has challenged Jolima in game 186203
SFLegend has challenged mdean in game 186213
SFLegend has challenged measurements in game 186225
SFLegend has challenged Crakker in game 186236
SFLegend has challenged Protagoras in game 186240
SFLegend has challenged Roarster in game 1862244

WombatDeath has defeated SFLegend in game 185778 by 3 men to 1

Peter Radiator Full Pig
09-08-2011, 12:09 AM
Crakker has defeated Jolima in game 186028 by 4 to 1

I have a question about this men killed score. Whats it for? Just if two people draw in a single round, or overall? Because if it is overall, it is better to create games where there are loads of people. That wat a win bags you a load of kills to help in the case of a draw.

circle
09-08-2011, 12:12 AM
circle2 has defeated ComradePenguin in game 185569 by 4 men to 0
circle2 has defeated ascagnel in game 184801 by 4 men to 0

measurements
09-08-2011, 12:19 AM
Just got my challenges through from SF and Crakker. I only have about an hour to play games per weeknight. I'll hopefully have enough time to do a couple of turns, but expect me to get the bulk of my gunning done over the weekend, if that's cool.

ColOfNature
09-08-2011, 01:13 AM
...it is better to create games where there are loads of people. That wat a win bags you a load of kills to help in the case of a draw.
But that just wouldn't be cricket. Gaming the system like that is hardly in the spirit of fair play, is it?

WombatDeath
09-08-2011, 01:37 AM
I think this is the sort of thing that we can worry about if it happens. Creating a game with lots of men might lead to a large goal difference but not necessarily in Player 1's favour.

Roarster
09-08-2011, 10:41 PM
Here's mine. Time to start losing...

Roarster has challenged Jolima in game 188222
Roarster has challenged mdean in game 188228
Roarster has challenged measurements in game 188231
Roarster has challenged Crakker in game 188236
Roarster has challenged Protagoras in game 188240

ColOfNature
09-08-2011, 10:49 PM
ColOfNature has defated ComradePenguin in game 185573 by 4 kills to 1. (Actually, I killed my own guy - can I count that as 5-0?)

Edit: as a matter of fact, I've been awarded 60 points for that game, which means that as my guy died after ComradePenguin's it didn't count toward the score for the game. So does that mean I won by 4-0?

WombatDeath
09-08-2011, 11:40 PM
Yes, to avoid discussions over whether or not someone died in the final nanosecond of a match I think we'll go by the official FS score, so the scoreline in that game is 4-0.

WombatDeath
10-08-2011, 12:04 AM
Things that I hate:

1) Entering what seems at the time to be a perfectly decent opening move, and immediately getting ripped to bloody shreds.
2) Roarster.

That is all.

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 12:29 AM
All? I hate fuckin' LOADS of things.

ComradePenguin
10-08-2011, 02:04 AM
I hate entering my first move only to realise I've done it for the wrong colour and having to plot it all out again. This level of observation possibly explains my first two results.


ColOfNature has defated ComradePenguin in game 185573 by 4 kills to

1. (Actually, I killed my own guy - can I count that as 5-0?)

Edit: as a matter of fact, I've been awarded 60 points for that game, which means that as my guy died after ComradePenguin's it didn't count toward the score for the game. So does that mean I won by 4-0?

I'm only agreeing to that on the proviso you include it in some sort of humorous own goal clip compilation at the end of the season. Given how dominant you were it reminded me of Stuart Pierce vs San Marino (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGdQvqbIexk).

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 02:24 AM
I'll start scouring the channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/RockPaperSynapse) for good bits and put them together towards the end of the season.

I have no knowledge of or interest in sports, so the video means nothing to me. Was that good? Did he do something impressive?

circle
10-08-2011, 03:41 AM
So how does this channel work? Can we upload to it? Or must I continue to be impatient ;)

CMaster and I had some problems with our game. The first two challenges he issued messed up. Never seen this before but after you run through the 5 second plan it freezes. We managed to submit our first turns but it did not show us the result and the second turn started on 4.97 to 4.99 seconds of the first turn. Neither of us could issue commands for the second turn.

I ended up creating the match and it worked.

So I guess circle2 has challenged CMaster in game 188469

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 04:07 AM
Sorry, I've fallen a bit behind in uploading the matches. FS still occasionally crashes when uploading, and YouTube still occasionally fails in converting the videos encoded by FS, and my reserves of patience are limited... I'll get the Cup and the League videos up to date tomorrow.

While I'm on the subject: I've also set up a playlist called RPSers Best Bits (http://www.youtube.com/user/RockPaperSynapse#grid/user/82798EBE163A812A), where you can show off your most awesome wins and, if you're so inclined, your most humiliating defeats. PM me with the match number (and server if it wasn't on UK1) and I'll upload it, or with a link to the video on YouTube if you've already uploaded it.

measurements
10-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Hey guys. Broken my arm which means this is about the only game I can actually play. To that end:
Measurements defeated SFLegend by 3/3 men to 0 of 3 in game 186225 I got veery lucky SF :)

CMaster
10-08-2011, 12:32 PM
None of the games I create are working. They all seize up after the first round.

Here's what I do. Hit create game, advanced. Hit "generate symmetrical" until the first comes up that fits the rules. Then fill in the form like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542902241293693285/76C8A27EFFFC78E45C3E6EBAD88CC859C1970BA6/

Aside from that
CMaster has drawn with ComradePenguin in game 185570 with 3 kills to 3
CMaster has defeated ColOfNature in game 183699 with 3 kills to 2

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 12:39 PM
Is this (http://forums.mode7games.com/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=3305) what happens? Hopefully it's being fixed in the patch. Have you tried installing the non-Steam version of the game? (Assuming you didn't buy through Steam that is).

Aside: dammit, FS just crashed while uploading a video. Lunchtime it is then.

Edit: and I can't believe I lost that guy - I should have just stayed hidden and taken the draw, but I wanted to know if you were sneaking up on me. What a dolt.

CMaster
10-08-2011, 12:46 PM
No, different issue.
When you load turn 2, it won't show you turn 1 - it takes you straight to 04.97. Attempting to go to turn 2 takes you to 5.02 and you can't give any orders (although you can move existing waypoints)

Normally, I wouldn't play static like that, but where I was I could see if you left, meanwhile I didn't really know enough about where you were camping to make my own approach safely.

I also just threw by game against circle2 by thinking my shotgunner was an MGer. Which was very stupid of me.

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 01:17 PM
That'll probably turn out to be a useful tactic, if a little dull, in tournament play when you're down to your last wee fella and not sure where the other guy is: turtle up and wait it out. After all, one guaranteed point is better than none at all.

E: have you asked in the chat if anyone's come across your problem before?

Roarster
10-08-2011, 05:12 PM
Things that I hate:

1) Entering what seems at the time to be a perfectly decent opening move, and immediately getting ripped to bloody shreds.
2) Roarster.

That is all.

:)

I was particularly pleased with how that turned out! First time I've ever played a symmetrical map so I figured rather than playing my usual opening moves and probably just cancelling out your moves I'd try to defend against the moves I would normally play (is anyone still following this?). Seemed to work well though I'm sure next time it'll be my men that end up splattered across the map.

zuddy
10-08-2011, 05:52 PM
SFLegend has defeated mdean in game 186213 with 4 kills to 0.

Hilariously, I started this match by giving orders to the wrong team and thus having my men do nothing for five seconds, which surely harbingers my overall performance in this event :)

Jolima
10-08-2011, 07:31 PM
:)

I was particularly pleased with how that turned out! First time I've ever played a symmetrical map so I figured rather than playing my usual opening moves and probably just cancelling out your moves I'd try to defend against the moves I would normally play (is anyone still following this?). Seemed to work well though I'm sure next time it'll be my men that end up splattered across the map.

I think I just provided you with that counterpoint in 188222. :)

Jolima has defeated mdean in game 185649 with 3 kills to 1. (I'll get to playing the non-symmetrical game at some point as well, but I'm not keeping up with all of the real matches as it is.)

WombatDeath
10-08-2011, 09:45 PM
No, different issue.
When you load turn 2, it won't show you turn 1 - it takes you straight to 04.97. Attempting to go to turn 2 takes you to 5.02 and you can't give any orders (although you can move existing waypoints)
Is it working OK when other people create the games? If so we'll reverse the challenging rules in your case.

WombatDeath
10-08-2011, 09:58 PM
Just sent out a PM to those who don't seem to have started a game yet (apologies if any of you have started without me noticing).

Apologies too for those awaiting a challenge from me; it's been a busy week and I am away from tomorrow morning until Saturday afternoon. I will try to get a couple more underway this evening.

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 10:02 PM
Right, I think I've got the YouTube channel (http://www.youtube.com/user/RockPaperSynapse) up to date, with a playlist for each group. If I've missed any let me know, and going forward if your matches don't show up within a day of you announcing the results PM me and tell me to get my finger out.

WombatDeath
10-08-2011, 10:24 PM
Brilliant, thanks Col!

WombatDeath has challenged Crakker in game 190107.

Roarster
10-08-2011, 10:32 PM
Roarster has defeated WombatDeath in game 185808 by 4 men to 1
SFLegend has defeated Roarster in game 186244 by 3 men to 2

circle
10-08-2011, 10:36 PM
None of the games I create are working. They all seize up after the first round.

Here's what I do. Hit create game, advanced. Hit "generate symmetrical" until the first comes up that fits the rules. Then fill in the form like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/542902241293693285/76C8A27EFFFC78E45C3E6EBAD88CC859C1970BA6/


I think I see your problem. Every game I create I leave the turn length at the default of 5000. I do not believe it is in seconds and I think you changing it to 5 is the cause of the problem. Try another with out changing the default turn length.

ColOfNature
10-08-2011, 10:47 PM
circle's right - the turn length is in milliseconds. Well spotted, that man.

WombatDeath
10-08-2011, 11:02 PM
WombatDeath has challenged measurements in game 190196.

circle
11-08-2011, 03:44 PM
circle2 has defeated CMaster in game 188469 by 3 men to 1

So how exactly does this men thing work? Some games have more, some have less.

Fumarole
11-08-2011, 07:19 PM
I just now became aware of this league. Put me down for the next one if/when it starts.

Jolima
11-08-2011, 09:21 PM
SFLegend has won against Jolima in game 186203 with 4 kills against 1.
Jolima has won against Roarster in game 188222 with 4 kills against 0.

ChainsawHands
11-08-2011, 10:03 PM
ChainsawHands has challenged antilope in game 192444.
ChainsawHands has challenged antilope in game 192466.

measurements
12-08-2011, 10:30 AM
Measurements has challenged web_cole in game 193306

And I think I gave orders to the wrong side in Mine and Roarster's first round >.< I have been taking a lot of painkillers...

measurements
12-08-2011, 11:55 AM
Bored bored bored...

Measurements has challenged Jolima in game 193537

Du3lingDragon
12-08-2011, 07:20 PM
hey uh, i seemed to have missed out on all the action, is there any way i could join mid season or do i have to wait untill next season?

Wolfenswan
12-08-2011, 08:44 PM
gah, this league isn't going good for me.

CMaster, is our game as bugged for you as it is for me? i have turns ending on 4.98 and beginning at 5.02 and everything seems to be behaving somewhat... off.

CMaster
12-08-2011, 09:00 PM
Right, apologies to all for the broken games.
Fixed now - although I'm not so keen on most of the maps. Ah well.

CMaster has challenged antilope in game 196198
CMaster has challenged ascagnel in game 196182
CMaster has challenged ChainsawHands in game 196165

Joseph
13-08-2011, 04:23 PM
I just now became aware of this league. Put me down for the next one if/when it starts.

Same here! I only just got the game

Web Cole
13-08-2011, 07:55 PM
Sorry, I was away and I forgot completely about this. Right, so.


Measurements has challenged web_cole in game 193306

And I think I gave orders to the wrong side in Mine and Roarster's first round >.< I have been taking a lot of painkillers...

Am I correct in thinking that I should be challenging measurements rather than the other way around or have I completely misunderstood this whole thing?

EDIT: Also:

Web_cole has challenged Jolima in game 202924

Web_cole has challenged mdean in game 202939

WombatDeath
13-08-2011, 09:06 PM
hey uh, i seemed to have missed out on all the action, is there any way i could join mid season or do i have to wait untill next season?
We have a few players who haven't checked in so far (Elmurph, Indigon and Protagoras). If you're available next week I will sub you for one of the first two on Monday, unless they show up in the meantime (or anyone else objects?).

And good grief, I am getting an excellent lesson in humility in this tournament!

WombatDeath
13-08-2011, 09:17 PM
Am I correct in thinking that I should be challenging measurements rather than the other way around or have I completely misunderstood this whole thing?

Yes, you are correct. However, if you're happy with the map chosen by measurements you can play on (and please report the result), or if you prefer you can issue a challenge and the game started by measurements will be invalid. Up to you.

zuddy
14-08-2011, 02:24 AM
Roarster has won against mdean in game 188228 by 3 men to 0.

measurements
14-08-2011, 10:34 AM
I didn't realise there was a challenging order sorry! Apparently I just don't read. I'll try to work on that.

Update:
Roarster has ownerized Measurements in game 188231 by 2/4 men to 0

Wolfenswan
14-08-2011, 02:12 PM
antilope was uttterly beaten by circle2 in game 184799 by 4/4 men to 1
antilope bested Cmaster in game 196198 by 3/3 men to 0.

I'll add the results of my other matches here as they come.

CMaster
14-08-2011, 02:36 PM
We have a few players who haven't checked in so far (Elmurph, Indigon and Protagoras).

Elmurph may not have checked in here, (nor have some of the people I challeneged posted the result yet), but he has challenged me.

WombatDeath
14-08-2011, 05:10 PM
WombatDeath has challenged mdean in game 208779
WombatDeath has challenged Jolima in game 208859

WombatDeath
14-08-2011, 05:19 PM
Elmurph may not have checked in here, (nor have some of the people I challeneged posted the result yet), but he has challenged me.
Ah, excellent. Has anyone heard from Indigon or Protagoras?

measurements
14-08-2011, 06:39 PM
Measurements has defeated WombatDeath in game 190196 by 3/3 men to 0 and I am reporting that here in accordance with paragraph three of article fifty one of the RPS Dark Elimination League Rules of Engagement.

Also worth adding that it's a whole week down and I've got half the games done so it's looking like a good gauge of play time. Hopefully.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
14-08-2011, 10:40 PM
Crakker had defeated WombatDeath in game 190107 by 4/4 to 0/4
Crakker had defeated SFLegend in game 186236 by 3/3 to 0/3
Crakker had defeated Roarster in game 188236 by 2/3 to 0/3

ascagnel
15-08-2011, 12:13 AM
And I get to claim my first victory of the tournament!

ascagnel has defeated CMaster in game 196182 by 2/3 to 0/3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyZifz1RwA

El_Murph
15-08-2011, 07:34 AM
All challenges issues:

elmurph has challenged antilope in game 200345
elmurph has challenged ascagnel in game 200347
elmurph has challenged ChainsawHands in game 200351
elmurph has challenged circle2 in game 200356
elmurph has challenged CMaster in game 200360
elmurph has challenged ColOfNature in game 200364
elmurph has challenged ComradePenguin in game 200370

CMaster
15-08-2011, 03:00 PM
And I get to claim my first victory of the tournament!

ascagnel has defeated CMaster in game 196182 by 2/3 to 0/3


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4cyZifz1RwA

Gah! Should have given my MGer an "ignore" marker for your MG - didn't occur to me they would see each other.

Jolima
15-08-2011, 07:59 PM
This event hasn't been going very well for me.

Let's see what hasn't been reported:

WombatDeath has defeated Jolima by 4 kills against 1 in game 208859
measurements has defeated Jolima by 3 kills against 0 in game 193537

About to lose to web_cole too I suspect, but that one is more even instead of depending on the first round explosions.

Wolfenswan
15-08-2011, 09:04 PM
gah! never play a turn in passing. NEVER.

ColofNature defeated antilope in game 184688 by 2/3 to 1/3 because the latter forgot the set an ignore order.

SHAME AND REGRET.

measurements
15-08-2011, 10:30 PM
Crakker has Butchered Measurements in game 186017 by 3/3 men to 0.

Have a look at turn 7 because I planned for my guys actions with the assumption that your gunner was exactly where he turned out to be, looking exactly where I thought he would be. In my plans the gunner in the room made it to cover unless he waited at all. I think that, with out waiting, I got to see an erroneous play through that didn't actually exist. Moot point though really cause you kicked my arse up and down that level. I let myself down with some really defensive play and a total balls up of using machine gunners. They are probably my least favourite unit anyway.

Yeah, just watched it through.I played like a pansy, I'll try and make it more interesting next time Crakker.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
16-08-2011, 12:28 AM
You sure it was exactly? Because even a little could make a difference. What probably happened was in a very slightly different position, my gunner 1 would of seen your number 2 first. Then two moves out of the way, he looks at your no 3. Number 3 now makes it to cover, and probably ducks. By then your number 2 has come around the corner, and is already firing. My guy is lost.
Instead, in my position slightly different, I see 3 first, kill him. Have enough time to see you come around the corner and kill him too.

Challange me to a game again, sometime. I like playing people more than once, though I rarely get to. You were a low level when you started, Im slightly worried at how good youll get once you learn all the tricks in the game...

ColOfNature
16-08-2011, 02:30 AM
ColofNature defeated antilope

Sweet. I was sure I was going to lose that MG. Good game!

ColOfNature
16-08-2011, 02:34 AM
Because even a little could make a difference.
This, absolutely. A couple of pixels can make all the difference. Determinism is a fine thing, but that bloody butterfly gets everywhere.

measurements
16-08-2011, 06:19 PM
You sure it was exactly? Because even a little could make a difference. What probably happened was in a very slightly different position, my gunner 1 would of seen your number 2 first. Then two moves out of the way, he looks at your no 3. Number 3 now makes it to cover, and probably ducks. By then your number 2 has come around the corner, and is already firing. My guy is lost.
Instead, in my position slightly different, I see 3 first, kill him. Have enough time to see you come around the corner and kill him too.

Challange me to a game again, sometime. I like playing people more than once, though I rarely get to. You were a low level when you started, Im slightly worried at how good youll get once you learn all the tricks in the game...

:) aight man I will do. First to conclude this tournament though. Flattered too.


This, absolutely. A couple of pixels can make all the difference. Determinism is a fine thing, but that bloody butterfly gets everywhere.

It would be interesting if there was a grid mode where waypoints snap to a grid. Although you could still get shot moving, I suppose. Nah ditch it, bad idea.

Web Cole
16-08-2011, 07:39 PM
Hey measurements, we'll just play out the game you challenged me on, that would seem to be the solution with the least hassle ;)

ChainsawHands
17-08-2011, 09:50 AM
Just to say, some RL stuff's come up that's meant I'm away from my computer this week a lot more than usual. I'll be able to do some turns Thursday night, maybe Saturday and definitely Sunday, but if that puts us past the deadline then I'm happy to have my matches defaulted in favour of my opponents. Should be online a lot more for the next round.

echodb
17-08-2011, 03:10 PM
Please put my name down for the next event.

Cheers :)

measurements
18-08-2011, 01:16 PM
web_cole fatally harassed (beat) Measurements in game 193306 by 2/3 men to 0

And I cried a little.

Web Cole
18-08-2011, 01:59 PM
Web_cole challenges Protagoras in game 229119

Web_cole challenges Roarster in game 229224

Web_cole challenges SFLegend in game 230831


web_cole fatally harassed (beat) Measurements in game 193306 by 2/3 men to 0

And I cried a little.

It was an interesting game though, gg :)

WombatDeath
19-08-2011, 07:15 PM
As we're entering the closing stages, please could you all check the appropriate tab of the spreadsheet (Division 1 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvmG4SoJhEYbdFgtbjN3VFE4OUxQTEtSLWVoVmJGX 3c&hl=en_GB#gid=2), Division 2 (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvmG4SoJhEYbdFgtbjN3VFE4OUxQTEtSLWVoVmJGX 3c&hl=en_GB#gid=3)) and report anything that isn't up-to-date. Both divisions have quite a lot of holes so we may need to consider extending the deadline a bit to get the games finished, but I'd like to make sure that we have an accurate picture of the remaining matches.

And please get as many matches finished by Sunday as possible!

Web Cole
19-08-2011, 08:04 PM
A lot of my games still have a ways too go, slow going atm :(


Web_cole challenges Crakker in game 233788

Peter Radiator Full Pig
19-08-2011, 08:55 PM
Web_cole had beaten Crakker in game 233788 by 3/4 men to 0/4

Web Cole
19-08-2011, 09:03 PM
Web_cole and WombatDeath have drawn in game 185769 by 1/3 men to 1/3 men

That was a boring last 15 seconds :P

WombatDeath
19-08-2011, 10:39 PM
Yes, though on the other hand it was also the fastest three turns I've ever taken!

circle
20-08-2011, 12:04 AM
circle2 has defeated ChainsawHands in game 184803 by 3/3 to 0

Web Cole
20-08-2011, 06:07 PM
Web_cole has defeated Jolima in game 202924 by 2/4 to 0/4

Wolfenswan
20-08-2011, 07:46 PM
I'm still waiting on turns from elmuprh, indigon, ascagnel and ComradePenguin, game ID of my match against col was 184688

antilope won against Chainsawhands with 2/3 against 0/3 in game 192444

Roarster
20-08-2011, 10:16 PM
Web_cole has defeated Roarster in game 229224 by 2/4 to 0/4

That's the last of my games except the one against Protagoras who hasn't played the first turn yet.

Web Cole
20-08-2011, 10:23 PM
Web_cole has defeated Roarster in game 229224 by 2/4 to 0/4

gg Roarster, interesting game :)

zuddy
21-08-2011, 01:50 AM
WombatDeath has defeated mdean in game 208779 by 3/3 men to 0/3.

It's a good thing losing is fun, although I'm sorry to all of my opponents for not being very interesting :P

Web Cole
21-08-2011, 09:19 AM
mdean has defeated Web_cole in game 202939 by 1/4 men to 0/4

It was a close one in the end, gg :)

zuddy
21-08-2011, 11:20 AM
measurements has defeated mdean in game 206560 by 2/3 men to 1/3

and I believe that's all my matches, save one against Protagoras who hasn't shown up.It isn't recorded in the spreadsheet, so Crakker defeated mdean in game 186020 by 3/3 men to 0/3

WombatDeath
21-08-2011, 12:25 PM
Excellent, so we only need the result of Web Cole and SF Legend to wrap up division 2. Division 1 seems to have ground to a halt, which is a bit disappointing.

Please could those of you waiting for an opponent to prime post the people you're waiting for here (as Wolfenswan has done above). Let's assume that Indigon in division 1 and Protagoras in division 2 are not participating, so you don't need to report those games.

Could those of you who are still around and interested, but haven't primed for any reason, please shout in this thread. I'm happy to give a couple of days' grace in games where both players are present.

On Monday evening I will make a decision on the unfinished games where the blocking player hasn't indicated their presence in this thread.

Web Cole
21-08-2011, 05:03 PM
I am just waiting on Protagoras (as everyone else is) and my game with SFLegend is still on the first turn. I wouldn't mind if you awarded that game against me Wombat because a) I did challenge SF kind of late (4 days ago), and b) I'm pretty sure I'm going up a Division either way :P

Sucks though, I spent like an hour on that first turn :(

Peter Radiator Full Pig
21-08-2011, 05:21 PM
What is this division bussiness? I dont know what it is, so I just thought that if I won all my games, Id be doing well. Web_cole decided to end that streak, for reasons unknown. ;)

circle
21-08-2011, 07:38 PM
The match between myself and elmurph is nearly done. I just got in from being away this weekend and submit a turn.

ascagnel
21-08-2011, 08:21 PM
ascagnel has defeated ChainsawHands in game 192466 by 1/3 to 0.

WombatDeath
21-08-2011, 11:59 PM
I am just waiting on Protagoras (as everyone else is) and my game with SFLegend is still on the first turn. I wouldn't mind if you awarded that game against me Wombat because a) I did challenge SF kind of late (4 days ago), and b) I'm pretty sure I'm going up a Division either way :P
Let's give it a day or two. I'd prefer not to have to make a ruling on that particular game because the result determines whether me or SFL gets promoted to division 1.

WombatDeath
22-08-2011, 12:08 AM
What is this division bussiness? I dont know what it is, so I just thought that if I won all my games, Id be doing well. Web_cole decided to end that streak, for reasons unknown. ;)
Two divisions, eight players in each. Bottom four of division 1 will be demoted at the end of this season, top four of division 2 will be promoted. So at the start of the next season we will (theoretically) have the stronger players in division 1, though hopefully division 2 will contain some new players - some have already expressed interest in signing up for season 2.

WombatDeath
22-08-2011, 12:10 AM
Incidentally, I'm particularly looking forward to the matches between circle, Col, Web Cole and the splendidly-named Peter Radiator Full Pig (I refuse to abbreviate to 'Crakker') in season 2.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
22-08-2011, 02:00 AM
I wish I could change my FS name to my forum name :P
Ive checked, and you cant. The only way would be to start a new account. A pity.

Will the divisions stay as Symertical Elimination, or are we going to start playing other modes? I like Elimination for its purity, and symetry for its symetry.

ComradePenguin
22-08-2011, 02:21 AM
Hey. Sorry to all those who have games pending with me. I have the magic combination of sickness and moving house at the minute so the mind bending required for FS hasn't appealed too much. I'll try and get back into the swing of it all this week.

measurements
22-08-2011, 08:41 AM
Excellent, so we only need the result of Web Cole and SF Legend to wrap up division 2. Division 1 seems to have ground to a halt, which is a bit disappointing.

Please could those of you waiting for an opponent to prime post the people you're waiting for here (as Wolfenswan has done above). Let's assume that Indigon in division 1 and Protagoras in division 2 are not participating, so you don't need to report those games.

Could those of you who are still around and interested, but haven't primed for any reason, please shout in this thread. I'm happy to give a couple of days' grace in games where both players are present.

On Monday evening I will make a decision on the unfinished games where the blocking player hasn't indicated their presence in this thread.

If Division one need a further week to get games finished I for one don't mind the wait. Although I will be away from computer from the 23rd of sept for a week so it can't go on for too long.

Also, I lack the software but if someone wants to make slo-mo videos with match commentary soundtrack for this tourney (for the youtubes) I can do something of Britishy, Wimbledon voice or maybe stretch to an excitable american poker tournament commentator. It could be fun!

SF Legend
22-08-2011, 10:07 AM
Sorry for taking so long, was going to do that match over the weekend but my internet went down.

Roarster
22-08-2011, 11:55 AM
gg Roarster, interesting game :)

I think it was obvious I'd lost it from the first turn - there was no way I could get my two guys out of the one exit of that room without dying. I really find these symmetrical maps a struggle, I keep setting up what I think should be the best opening moves then completely changing them because I assume the other player will have picked the same opening moves and we'll cancel each other out. Still, I've had a good time despite my middling results and look forward to the next season.

SF Legend
22-08-2011, 01:08 PM
Web_cole has defeated SFLegend in game 230831 by 4 men to 1

Web Cole
22-08-2011, 02:49 PM
Web_cole has defeated SFLegend in game 230831 by 4 men to 1

I think that should be 3/4 to 0/4?

Well, looks like Div 2 is all done.

ascagnel
22-08-2011, 05:50 PM
Two divisions, eight players in each. Bottom four of division 1 will be demoted at the end of this season, top four of division 2 will be promoted. So at the start of the next season we will (theoretically) have the stronger players in division 1, though hopefully division 2 will contain some new players - some have already expressed interest in signing up for season 2.

How is the #5 slot gettin handled for D1? Is that staying? I'm on the bubble there now, but I'm unlikely to move down.

WombatDeath
23-08-2011, 01:06 AM
Season 1 is now over! I will go through the unfinished matches and assign points via a process of logic and wild guesswork, though I don't expect to finish before Tuesday evening at the earliest. A few points here, please skip to the end if you're pushed for time:

1) The victory will be handed to the player who I think has not been primarily responsible for the game's non-completion. I'm using incomplete information and may get these decisions wrong, so please do speak up if you feel you've been treated unfairly.

2) If two players both state in this thread that they would like to complete their match I'm happy to wait for them to finish, as long as it happens this week. If either player does not post in this thread, my decision will stand.

3) Don't take an adverse decision as any kind of slight. I fully realise that other concerns may take a player out of circulation for some or all of a season (as in Penguin's case), and the nice thing about short seasons is that a relegation can be followed by a swift promotion in the following season. Even in the best of circumstances it's inevitable that players will sometimes slide a division or two due to holidays and so on.

4) I haven't yet decided exactly how the divisions will work for season 2, as the roster will no doubt change. I'm probably going to promote/demote as previously promised, sort the two divisions by points scored in season 1, and then add the two lists (with new players at the bottom) to create a single ranked list. This will form the basis of our divisions for season 2. So, depending on the number of players for season 2, the people at the margins (Ascagnel, me, etc) may end up in either division. I'm aware that this probably doesn't make sense to anyone except myself, and even that's marginal at this time of night.

The important bits
I would like to start season 2 next week! Please add yourself to this tab of the spreadsheet (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvmG4SoJhEYbdFgtbjN3VFE4OUxQTEtSLWVoVmJGX 3c&hl=en_GB#gid=4) if you would like to participate. The season will most likely last for two weeks again, so don't sign up if you know that you're going to be away for a significant chunk (you can just rejoin for season 3). Old and new players all welcome.

Finally, please provide feedback about season 1 and ideas for season 2 - game mode, scoring, duration, maps, rules, whatever. My own preference is to continue as a Symmetrical Dark Extermination league but everything is up for review if the majority feels otherwise.

Finally finally, this has been great fun, instructive, and a timely reminder that I'm not nearly as good at this game as I thought I was. Thank you all for your participation!

WombatDeath
23-08-2011, 01:10 AM
By the way, if you're signing up to season 2 it would be useful if you could PM me your email address so that I can nag you if you forget about it. This is not compulsory, and I promise that I probably won't sell your details to the Russian mafia.

WombatDeath
23-08-2011, 01:55 AM
Tidying up division 1 was easier than I expected (though as mentioned above, take a look at the 'raw data' tab and let me know if you think I've got it wrong).

The only outstanding matches are:

ColOfNature vs. ChainsawHands
CMaster vs. ChainsawHands

Can any of the players involved let me know where the hold-up is? If I don't hear anything by Wednesday evening I will call each match a draw.

circle
23-08-2011, 02:13 AM
Maybe I'm out of it, but I think the sign up is locked.

Feedback about season 1 and ideas for season 2:

Not a fan of symmetrical, but I will play. I would prefer something with an objective. I think Disputed gives a nice mix of having an objective, and still having an Elimination feel to it. Has to stay Dark.

Every thing else seemed fine. I have no problem staying with the same format.

ComradePenguin
23-08-2011, 03:18 AM
Signup isn't showing as locked but can't be edited so something funky is going on.

As for last season I can't really comment as I missed most of it but perhaps standardising the number of men used would sort out any possible goal difference issues.

ChainsawHands
23-08-2011, 09:37 AM
Like I posted upthread, the delay was down to me being unexpectedly away from my computer rather more than planned. I *think* the outstanding turns are currently with the other players, but I'll have a check when I get in tonight (back of 11) and again tomorrow (back of 7) to try and squeeze the endgame in.

CMaster
23-08-2011, 10:28 AM
CMaster vs Chainsaw Hands is over in fact, I've just been waiting for him to report it. Was a draw, with 2 kills a piece.

However my game against ElMurph is nowhere near finished - I check twice a day for new turns, and we're still only on turn 3.

Web Cole
23-08-2011, 10:36 AM
Can't add my name for season 2 here either.

I'd vote for keeping things as is, but if the general consensus is to change to something else, I don't mind.

A couple of things I would suggest: it would be a good idea to edit the first post of this thread with some general information about the League and how to participate. It will be difficult to bring in new comers if all the info is hidden in the middle of the thread somewhere.

Also, in the same vein I think we should request a mod (or Jim, probably?) to change the name of the thread so that people actually know whats going on here "Frozen Synapse: Dark Elimination event" doesn't really cover what we're doing here anymore, and people looking for a FS tourny might skip over it because of that.

WombatDeath
23-08-2011, 10:42 AM
Sorry, the sign-up sheet should now be editable (let me know if not). Will reply to the other stuff later!

SF Legend
23-08-2011, 10:52 AM
Just signed up right before you posted that, so I guess it's confirmed as working.

Web Cole
23-08-2011, 10:53 AM
Just signed up right before you posted that, so I guess it's confirmed as working.

Hmm, still not working for me :/

EDIT: Nm, working now.

Roarster
23-08-2011, 11:21 AM
Feedback:

I'm not a fan of symmetrical games either but I guess it's the only way to guarantee the games are fair. I'm happy with elimination but I've never really played any of the other modes so maybe a change would broaden my experiences so to speak. Has to be dark though, light games are nowhere near as much fun.

And thanks for organising it all, based on the effort you've put in I'm going to guess you're a teacher enjoying the summer holidays!

airtekh
23-08-2011, 11:41 AM
I'd like to throw my hat in the ring for this, if I may. I've added myself to the spreadsheet.

I just recently got Frozen Synapse and am slowly becoming addicted to it. It would be nice playing with some RPS people as opposed to total randoms.

ChainsawHands
23-08-2011, 12:29 PM
CMaster vs Chainsaw Hands is over in fact, I've just been waiting for him to report it. Was a draw, with 2 kills a piece.
Or, of course, I may have forgotten to report the results, yes.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
23-08-2011, 04:42 PM
Dark elimination, symetrical.
If we arent doing doing preset maps, this is the only fair way.
Charge cant be generated symmertrical, as far as I know.
Hostage never is. Disputed has random boxes. Secure doesnt make sense as symmetrical, though if the teams are the same, its kind of symmetrical, in that you both start with the same thing.

Elimination is pure, the goal is clear to new comers, which is a bonus.

measurements
23-08-2011, 09:43 PM
I'm for DE SYM too. I reckon it would also be nice to have some informal discussion about reusing some maps, perhaps build up a decent pick of tournament favourites. Some of the first turns have been amazing throughout this tourney and I'd love to see what else might happen.

WombatDeath
24-08-2011, 01:48 AM
I've posted a new thread for season 2 (http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/forums/showthread.php?1158-Frozen-Synapse-dark-extermination-league-season-2.-All-welcome%21&p=29446#post29446); we can keep this one going for discussion of season 1. I've gone for symmetrical dark extermination again because it just makes things easier and I don't have to worry about people claiming unfairness, but if we get some kind of consensus we can try something else for season 3.

Maps: I'm up for having a selection of interesting maps but lack the time to create them myself. If anyone fancies giving it a go I'm happy to use a predefined collection instead of generating them for each game.

Pushed for time tonight but I will check in again tomorrow, and sort out the final remaining division 1 games. Sign up for season 2 if you haven't already done so, and please consider PMing me your email address!

ascagnel
24-08-2011, 04:36 AM
Wait, I was supposed to challenge antilope?

Derp.

WombatDeath
24-08-2011, 10:10 PM
The final results (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AvmG4SoJhEYbdFgtbjN3VFE4OUxQTEtSLWVoVmJGX 3c&hl=en_GB#gid=1) for season 1 are in! Congratulations to Circle and Peter Radiator Full Pig for coming top of divisions 1 and 2. Very impressive performances from both players; Circle remains undefeated and all of his opponents in season 2 will be given an extra Devastator. Well played also to zuddy, AKA mdean, who is awarded the Balls of Steel award for hurling himself into the fray with almost zero multiplayer experience.

Provisional division movements look like this:

Relegated to division 2:
CMaster
ComradePenguin
elmurph
Indigon

Promoted to division 1:
Peter Radiator Full Pig
Web_cole
measurements
WombatDeath

I say 'provisional' because the final result will depend on the size of the divisions for season 2. In any event, those relegated will very soon have a chance to get themselves promoted back up (and of course those newly promoted will shortly have to justify their place in division 1).

WombatDeath
24-08-2011, 10:28 PM
On the subject of game mode: as I mentioned briefly last night, I've gone for symmetric DE for two main reasons:

1) It saves administration time and is easier for new players
2) I can't think of a way to make asymmetric games fair.

We might be able to address point 2 with the creation of some standard maps, if anyone wants to make them. As for point 1, I suppose we could take the view that anyone unfamiliar with the tactics of (say) a secure game will have plenty of experience by the time they reach the end of a season, but I'm a bit concerned about putting people off. Perhaps we should just try it in season 3 and see what happens; as long as we keep the games dark I'm not hugely bothered about the rest of it.

What do you all think about the number of men? I'm inclined to the view that each match can have 3 or 4 per side: it makes game creation a bit easier and perhaps provides a bit more variety. There's a theoretical chance that someone could game the system towards the end of a season where goal difference is a promotion/relegation factor, but I suspect that's going to be a pretty rare scenario.

I like measurements' idea of voiced commentary! Does anyone know if there's a way to generate slower videos for youtube?

Jolima
24-08-2011, 11:01 PM
Assymetric games could be made fair by playing both sides of them, perhaps have it so every player has 4 symetric elimination and 4 other game types with the same map once for each side against the same player. (Which game type goes against which player would be determined randomly in advance. Both plays together would only count the same as a single symetric map in scoring.) That would increase it from 8 to 12 games and increase the complexity a bit though.

3-4 men seems a good number, and I think that's what almost all of my games had last season. I'm not worrying about the goal difference so much myself so I don't care wether we lock it down or not though.

WombatDeath
24-08-2011, 11:56 PM
Yes, I wondered about playing asymmetric maps from both sides but I suspect that confusion and mayhem lie in that direction. Perhaps we should reconsider the idea in a season or two when everyone's comfortable with the basic set-up.

On a completely different note, does anyone have any favourite exciting/tense/silly matches from season 1 for us to take a look at?

WombatDeath
24-08-2011, 11:58 PM
Well played also to zuddy, AKA mdean, who is awarded the Balls of Steel award for hurling himself into the fray with almost zero multiplayer experience.
In fact I think there were other new or new-ish players in season 1, including Measurements who gave me a thorough kicking. Good work all of you!

Peter Radiator Full Pig
25-08-2011, 01:10 PM
I dont like the idea of assymetry played from both sides. I would say that the person who plays first on the favourable side (Assuming there is one) will have an advantage. They will get to play the better side first, exploit any discoverable tactics, know whats coming in the second one, and assuming equalish skill, winning the match will put the opponent on the back foot. I know that if I was beaten, Id maybe play a little more catously. And if I needed to get X amount of kills to win overall, Id need to play more aggressivly. As the winner in the second match, you could allow your enemy to come to you, as if you sit back youve already won.

Playing the games at the same time wouldnt solve this. Id just play the advantage one first, then the second one.

Also, for the voiced commentary, your best bet would be to record the match from in the game. That way you can pause where you want to wait, zoom where to want to look and rewind where you want to revise. When you look at someone elses game, can you see the command lines they made? That would also be interesting. If you could, its possible that you could look at the same match from both different accounts to get both sets of lines.
Of course, these means youd probably need to edit footage and then commentate on it, but who said it was going to be easy?

Web Cole
25-08-2011, 05:19 PM
When you look at someone elses game, can you see the command lines they made?

Its only possible to see the commands made by Player 1, or the Green player in replays. Which is a bit rubbish.

Peter Radiator Full Pig
25-08-2011, 08:46 PM
Is the green player always the same person, or is it whoevers profile you are viewing the game from? I imagine its the same person, makes more sense that way.
Possibly, we should go to the Mode7 forums with some suggestions, though Im sure there are plenty of those already.

circle
26-08-2011, 12:37 AM
Circle remains undefeated and all of his opponents in season 2 will be given an extra Devastator.

What is a Devastator?

I am fine with DE SYM, it is easiest.

What about the random creation of the maps? Some of the random generated starts suck. Should we maybe agree on skipping some setups? 3 - 4 men is good, sometimes it only gives you 2. Do people like starting with a man amidst the enemy, and an enemy in your ranks? I kind of like the spread out starts. It does not have to be with opponents on extreme ends, but not with units intermixed side by side. Sometimes it even generates units trapped by walls with no rocket launchers or even windows to help the unit join in. However it does not matter because everything is mirrored.

Perhaps we can use the season 1 results along with assigning the new entrants a 0. Then let the lower score have the generate advantage, in the case of a tie use alphabetical name order. At the end of the season we can recalculate to figure out who generates / challenges for the next season. And so on... Unless that is too complicated.

Good games everyone!

WombatDeath
26-08-2011, 02:39 AM
Spoilers ahoy:

The Devastator is a unit in the single-player campaign which moves extremely quickly and fires five rockets each turn. I toyed with the notion of confiscating all of your ammunition before each match, but unfortunately the game interface hasn't reached that level of customisation.

I think that the rules for season 1 stipulate three or four men per side, but if not they will for season 2. Beyond that, I don't want to set restrictions on the map layout (too subjective and potentially confusing) unless perhaps someone comes up with some good custom maps. Even then, I'm concerned that custom maps will add complexity: it's easy enough in theory, but every rule creates new opportunities for mistakes which I then have to spend time unravelling. I'm strongly inclined to keep things as pure and simple as reasonably possible.

The season 1 results will be used to create the season 2 starting divisions. The promoted players from division 2 will be merged with the remaining division 1 players, by overall score and goal difference. Same for division 2 and the players relegated from division 1. This will give us a ranked list of players from season 1. I will then add the new players to the bottom of the list. This list will be split in half to give us the starting positions for season 2.

In future seasons it will be a bit simpler: promoted players will join the bottom of their new division, and relegated players will join the top of their new division. The only reason I'm not doing this for season 2 is that the initial division split for season 1 was done alphabetically rather than by ability. In a nutshell, the approach for season 2 means that Circle will start in first place in division 1 and Peter Radiator Full Pig will be in second place, which seems fair to me.

All of that will hopefully become clear when I draw up the season 2 starting positions over the weekend.

We will keep the challenging format wherein the lower-ranked player issues the challenge (and therefore selects the map layout and unit types). In an uncharacteristic moment of foresight I instituted this rule in season 1 because it would give a slight advantage to the lower-ranked players in subsequent seasons. This may come back to bite me: I suspect that I am once again going to have to issue a challenge to everyone in my division...

Peter Radiator Full Pig
26-08-2011, 01:39 PM
The challanging system is a good idea. We need all the advantages we can get against Circle2.

WombatDeath
26-08-2011, 02:10 PM
So, we have 21 players so far for season 2. Two divisions (10 and 11 players) or three (7 players each)? I'm positively wracked with indecision. Wracked! I may have to go for a lie down.

I'll wait to see whether anyone else signs up over the next few days. In the meantime, let me know whether you'd prefer more smaller divisions or fewer large divisions.

ChainsawHands
26-08-2011, 02:30 PM
Fewer smaller divisions - fewer matches to organise and fit into the time available.

Web Cole
26-08-2011, 05:10 PM
Fewer smaller divisions. 3 of 7 would be fine, if we get more people even better :)

circle
27-08-2011, 12:40 AM
The challanging system is a good idea. We need all the advantages we can get against Circle2.

I am flattered. I look forward to the new challenges and rematches in Season 2!

With any luck we will meet in the tournament as well Mr. Crakker. We start our Disputed matches with 2 Machine Guns and a Sniper vs. 2 Machine Guns and a Shot Gun. Not a lot of open ground. Good luck once your opponent is sorted out!

Smaller divisions makes sense.