PDA

View Full Version : Human v Undead: Should I foul?



r3dknight
19-12-2012, 05:16 AM
I haven't played much but I'm up against an Undead player this coming weekend.
After playing with Undead AI, I start to understand how their pieces play better - I foul them a lot to get player advantage and score TD while tying up their mummies with ogre and other linesmen.

Which players should i prioritize though?
I do have Mighty Blow on my blitzers.

Thanks!

Roster:
Blitzer - Block - Mighty Blow - Fractured Skull
Blitzer - Block - Dodge - Guard
Blitzer - Block - Guard
Blitzer - Block - Guard
Ogre - Bone Head - Mighty Blow - Thick Skull - Throw Team Mate - Loner - Guard

Lineman - Kick
Lineman - Block
Lineman - Block
Lineman
Lineman

Thrower - Misses this game due to injury
Thrower

Heliocentric
19-12-2012, 08:23 AM
Do you foul ghouls? Straight away. Wights will get tied up fighting with mv 6 and no dodge access Zombies and mummies are slow and can't handle the ball.

An undead team without its ghouls is dying a slow death. (ex undead coach in dod)

NieA7
19-12-2012, 08:47 AM
Fouling Ghouls is an excellent idea, just keep an eye on the players available to you both - if the Undead are winning the numbers game overall they'll be able to tie you up quite easily, rookie humans don't have the agility to compensate for a lack of bodies.

You might want to lose that blitzer with the fractured skull when you've got enough cash to replace him, AV7 is asking for trouble.

r3dknight
19-12-2012, 08:55 AM
People keep saying that and I kept delaying it...3 games into the current league and he has... 2 MVP out of 3.
I think the fans love him.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/829607/Bloodbowl/01/human.jpg

Should I get another lineman?

NieA7
19-12-2012, 09:23 AM
They love him because they know something horrible's going to happen to him any second.

13 players is a reasonable number to have on the roster early on, and you might want to get more catchers before linemen. If you've got less than 4 re-rolls that's what I'd aim for next.

r3dknight
19-12-2012, 09:47 AM
So I get another catcher? or another RR? I got 140k

President Weasel
19-12-2012, 09:49 AM
Also you are going to have to cut him in the end (he's got a big bullseye on him, he'll get hit a lot, and his armour will break, and he'll spend a lot of time out of matches - and eventually, he'll get more stat injuries) and in the meantime he is stealing the lovely MVP points from your other players.

Web Cole
19-12-2012, 10:52 AM
Sorry to hi-jack this thread slightly, but I believe I will also be facing an Undead team in the near future. How to approach fouling when you have expensive linemen (e.g elves) and no reserves?

ChainsawHands
19-12-2012, 11:04 AM
Elf linemen are only 60K, that's cheap! But yeah, no reserves and presumably you're on one of the more expensive elf teams... basically, don't foul, it's not worth it. Just outplay the stupid shambling corpses...

Or induce a bribe and then foul, that changes the odds a lot.

Screwie
19-12-2012, 11:10 AM
Elf linemen are only 60K, that's cheap!

Not really... All elf linemen except Pro Elves are 70k, because they come with either +1 AV or +1 MA on the Pro variant.

I wish I could afford a Dirty Player on my Dark Elf side, but at 90k or more... :(

Heliocentric
19-12-2012, 11:23 AM
I wish I could afford a Dirty Player on my Dark Elf side, but at 90k or more... :(

Ugh... the mighty blow of foulers, its rubbish, would you pick mighty blow if using it risked you being sent off? No, now sneaky git, that's a useful fouler skill, sneaky git makes every foul a good foul, AV10 treeman with no assists? Worth a go when only an armour break can get you sent off.

Screwie
19-12-2012, 12:00 PM
I feel the exact opposite. You want more effective fouls, you take Dirty Player and (ideally) you aim to break the armour with gang foul assists alone. +1 on the injury roll is fantastic.

Sneaky Git doesn't make fouls more effective and doesn't protect you at all if the foul succeeds. It lets your fouling tactics become more flexible and frequent, but it's definitely a second place to Dirty Player for me. If I'm risking a foul I want to make sure as best I can the target is leaving the pitch too.

Heliocentric
19-12-2012, 12:06 PM
Sneaky Git doesn't make fouls more effective and doesn't protect you at all if the foul succeeds. It lets your fouling tactics become more flexible and frequent, but it's definitely a second place to Dirty Player for me. If I'm risking a foul I want to make sure as best I can the target is leaving the pitch too.

The old quantity vs quality argument, does cyanide allow you to "choose" to use DP? Say you miss the break by 1, electing to use DP would allow you to tune the foul, already sent off or need the player down? Might as well go for it, cant risk being sent off for the injury roll? Hold off.

That would be a big draw.

Screwie
19-12-2012, 12:15 PM
In-game it works exactly like Mighty Blow. Dirty Player is used on the armour roll if it would make a difference, otherwise it will save it for the injury roll (if there is one). Do you ever need more options than that?

EDIT: It sounds like you believe the sending off can be influenced by the Dirty Player modifier? This isn't the case. You're sent off on a dice double, modifiers don't come into it.

Jiiiiim
19-12-2012, 12:36 PM
Ghouls are nice targets because they don't regenerate, but I wouldn't foul them unless they're of the annoying blodgesidestep variety, the only other one on an Undead team I'd consider fouling is a killer wight (or maybe a roadblock mummy) but there's a 50/50 chance they'll just get back up. Just make sure that you're getting value for your foul and that, if your guy gets sent off, you aren't screwed.

Heliocentric
19-12-2012, 12:40 PM
In-game it works exactly like Mighty Blow. Dirty Player is used on the armour roll if it would make a difference, otherwise it will save it for the injury roll (if there is one). Do you ever need more options than that?Yes, like i suggested, say I make a foul, and fail by 1, but don't want to risk a non DP boosted injury roll. I could imply refrain from using Dirty Player and fail to break.

Combined with Sneaky git you could be sure you'll either never get sent off or have a DP infused injury roll, if the game truely followed the rules.

Screwie
19-12-2012, 12:55 PM
Aha, I understand you now. I've not tested that, I will have to give it a try.

Everblue
19-12-2012, 01:33 PM
If you pack a foul with enough assists to ensure you break armour without using up the DP +1 modifier, then DP changes the odds of a casualty from a sixth to nearly a third.

But back on topic, like Chainsawhands I never foul with elves unless I have a bribe.

Everblue
19-12-2012, 01:35 PM
maths fail! post deleted...

Heliocentric
19-12-2012, 05:14 PM
I actually face undead in my next match and I'm playing as pro elves with no foul assisting skills or bribes.

But, I'll have a journeyman. If he survives the LOS then he will certainly be sharpening his boots on ghoul meat.

I don't do this because it's good maths, I do it because it's right.

20phoenix
19-12-2012, 07:00 PM
I actually face undead in my next match and I'm playing as pro elves with no foul assisting skills or bribes.

But, I'll have a journeyman. If he survives the LOS then he will certainly be sharpening his boots on ghoul meat.

I don't do this because it's good maths, I do it because it's right.

I didn't open this thread to see what answer Helio gave. I opened it to see what variation of the word "yes" Helio used.

Heliocentric
19-12-2012, 07:07 PM
I didn't open this thread to see what answer Helio gave. I opened it to see what variation of the word "yes" Helio used.

Sometimes I just chide people for being care bears and return to my throne of skulls.

r3dknight
20-12-2012, 04:47 AM
I checked his roster, match day is weekend - Looks like he's missing a ghoul from injury.
Ho ho ho.

https://dl.dropbox.com/u/829607/Bloodbowl/01/undead.jpg

Merry Xmas.

Also my first matchmaking game as Pro Elf got me vs Khorne.
Where upon he scored with 2 GFIs using his Big Guy at AG 1.
I flipped a virtual table if I could.
I had no heart to even try double GFI on my final drive at 2-1 down.

Another debut game for Nurgle team ended at Turn 2 when Beast of Nurgle dies.
I forfeited, deleted and never looked back.

JayTee
20-12-2012, 09:45 AM
Aha, I understand you now. I've not tested that, I will have to give it a try.Just ran a quick test and this came up first foul I tried. I switched Dirty Player to 'ask' in the settings menu thing.

Foul on an AV8 player:

Rolled: 1 & 4
Assists: 3

Dirty Player kicked in, without any option to say no, breaking armour and causing a roll on the injury table.

Injury: 4+4 (KO)

So my fouler gets sent off, the other player is KOed. A reasonable trade in the second half, depending on who you fouled.

Screwie
20-12-2012, 10:32 AM
Ah well, another incomplete skill implementation on Cyanide's end then. Somehow I'm not surprised!

Heliocentric
20-12-2012, 10:44 AM
I forfeited, deleted and never looked back.

Ah, to be a rage quitter. Such glory, such temperance, such dignity. :p

Web Cole
20-12-2012, 10:52 AM
Lost my Krox in the first game with a Lizardman team, now have a full complement of Saurus (3 w Block), 2 skilled skinks and 40k away from Krox No. 2. I think it gave the team more character ;)

Alistair Hutton
20-12-2012, 11:32 AM
Where upon he scored with 2 GFIs using his Big Guy at AG 1.


Remember that Agility has no effect on GFI rolls - it's the same odds if you are AG 1 or AG 6. That's why on touch backs I often give the ball to my Ogre and let him blitz up the pitch.

Heliocentric
20-12-2012, 11:42 AM
Remember that Agility has no effect on GFI rolls - it's the same odds if you are AG 1 or AG 6. That's why on touch backs I often give the ball to my Ogre and let him blitz up the pitch.

Good catch, I assumed he was referring to the big guy catching/picking up the ball but yeah, Elves gfi just as well as mummies.

Screwie
20-12-2012, 11:57 AM
The big problem with scoring with a Wild Animal big guy is getting him to move at all. However when you try and stop him you potentially give him targets to blitz and improve his chances of getting over the line...

potatoedoughnut
09-01-2013, 04:28 PM
The big problem with scoring with a Wild Animal big guy is getting him to move at all. However when you try and stop him you potentially give him targets to blitz and improve his chances of getting over the line...

You can still perform a blitz even if you don't block anyone, you just "waste" your blitz. This is a good way to just move a WA around the pitch (or stand up) w/o blocking.

Screwie
09-01-2013, 05:42 PM
You can still perform a blitz even if you don't block anyone, you just "waste" your blitz. This is a good way to just move a WA around the pitch (or stand up) w/o blocking.

What!??? O.O

Heliocentric
09-01-2013, 06:02 PM
What!??? O.O

Ya, click "blitz" move, done.

Screwie
17-01-2013, 09:21 AM
Yeah always go for the ghoul(ie)s against Undead. Necro too, although they have werewolves to fall back on and it's tougher to eliminate all their scorers, that's still the best tactic I've found against them.