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gusone
21-07-2011, 07:56 PM
No BF3 on Steam. No Origin. Join the boycott. Be one of the early adopters.

http://steamcommunity.com/groups/EAoriginboycott

This is genuine attempt at creating a Steam EA Origin Boycott Group. Please join if you, like me, feel incredibly aggrieved by EA’s Battlefield 3 boycott on Valve’s Steam platform. Personally I find the bully boy EA tactics appalling especially after Steam saved PC gaming. This is about a massive corporation muscling in, stealing market share and leveraging off the millions of dollars Valve has invested in Steam over the last five years.

It is not so much the fact that Origin is yet another gaming platform it is the fact that we are being forced to use it to play Battlefield 3 if you want a digital version. This is a big deal but PC Gamers do have a large voice especially since Battlefield games sell more on PCs than consoles – so we should use it. Steam is the premier platform but it’s not a monopoly. You can buy digital games from a number of places. However, we all have 10’s or even 100’s of games on Steam and thanks to Steam we as a PC gaming community have been conditioned to accept digital downloads not to mention the friends social network is second to none. These are just two of the many reasons why we all love Steam.

Do you really think EA has PC Gamers interests at heart? … really? They’ve spent over $1.5bn on casual social games chasing the latest trend destroying massive shareholder value. They would ditch PC gaming in a minute as soon as it started making a loss while they continue to cosy up to Facebook - Bejeweled vs Zombiesville 9 is the future of PC Gaming right? Crysis 2 was pulled from Steam due to an exclusivity agreement with Direct2Drive breaching Steam's T&C's and then EA had the affront to sell it for even more on its own Origin platform. Furthermore the recently announced SWTOR Origin version has unique content (Star Wars: The Old Republic Digital Deluxe Edition) and cost $79.99 versus the packaged retail standard edition of $59.99... is this a joke? I'm not laughing and I’m not seeing the PC Gamer love and nor should you.

That’s not the way to do it. This is not the way PC Gamers work ... when did less become more? You all have an opportunity to tell EA “No. That’s not how it works. I don’t like what you are doing”. To be blunt if Steam is good enough for Activison’s Call of Duty franchise (whether you love it or hate it) then it’s good enough for Battlefield. And that’s the reality. The mighty Activision is still using Steam. Say’s a hell of a lot doesn’t it? The problem we have here is if other publishers start to do the same we're going to have 5+ platforms running - imagine having to log into 5 different social networks every day. Not to mention the stress on PCs running all these platforms in the background as they hoover up client usage data/stats and send it back to the marketing departments so that we get hammered with ads and spam. It’s a real possibility. Even today there is an article on a gaming website claiming that Steam EA game codes can be redeemed via Origin and that Origin loads the Steam overlay when you start the game (Dragon Age 2). This is just ridiculous. We just want Battlefield 3 on Steam. We have to say now… “Stop”.

Sadly, I fully expect Origin to be integrated into Battlefield 3 even in the packaged product so we cannot escape it even if you buy the disc - it's all about them capturing CRM data in their Nucleus database . All I can suggest is that you sign up to this boycott group (link below) and you pre-order the packaged version. At least don’t let EA have the extra profits and fatter margins that they would generate from a digital copy sold on Origin. .. $79.99 for a digital product really?

I’ll see you all on the Battlefield but this whole episode has left me deflated and not as excited as I should be to the forthcoming release of Battlefield 3. Bizarrely Modern Warfare 3 now has me more excited and that’s coming from a PC Gamer who has played every Battlefield game religiously since Battlefield 1942 came out a decade or so ago. And with Red Orchestra 2 out a month or two earlier Battlefield 3 already had its work cut out. The decision is being made easier by the day.

Me, I'm just a 40 year old PC gamer who is rather annoyed by all of this, yeah call me Victor Meldrew. But I really “don’t believe it”. DICE we love you… but EA… “Just stop” . Please tell your friends (friends of friends etc) and get them to join the group. It's time for some organised protest old school style . Everything starts off small but hopefully it will snowball into a PC Gamer movement that wants to speak up for PC Gamers. To make this happen please post the Steam Group link in any articles, blogs, Youtubes, twitters, Facebook etc about Battlefield 3. If you've the time then why not do it to other EA games. Let’s remind people we don’t have to accept this.

Remember it will not end here. Mass Effect 3 will be next. It's time to act... The PC Gamer community needs you all now.

The Steam EA Origin Boycott Group

Wizardry
21-07-2011, 08:02 PM
Boycott Origin? This is 1999 all over again!

SMiD
21-07-2011, 08:05 PM
Boycott Origin? This is 1999 all over again!

BOOM. Now drop the mic and walk off stage. Leave 'em guessing.

Smashbox
21-07-2011, 08:10 PM
Speaking of conditioning, the idea that you should pre-order the game in any form is patently ridiculous. Is there any other comparable product you buy that you pay for months in advance?

Mihkel
21-07-2011, 08:10 PM
I sure hope that this doesn't turn out like this did.
136

SMiD
21-07-2011, 08:14 PM
I sure hope that this doesn't turn out like this did.
136

My money's on it happening just like that. Shit, if they were clever, they'd add the game's .exe manually and call it 'Duck Tales'.

Vandelay
21-07-2011, 08:17 PM
Speaking of conditioning, the idea that you should pre-order the game in any form is patently ridiculous. Is there any other comparable product you buy that you pay for months in advance?

You can pre-order DVDs, CDs. Tickets for a cinema trip can be made, maybe not months, but weeks in advance. The pre-order market for games maybe bigger than those, but it isn't unique.

As for boycotting, when was the last time you bought a Valve product from any other download service than Steam? They might be singling Steam out, but they are providing more choice than Valve do for their products.

mR.Waffles
21-07-2011, 08:19 PM
Everyone who joins the boycott will buy the game if it is good, just like everyone always does. I remember in 2004 everyone's outrage at Half-Life 2 forcing users to install steam. Oh, look it's 2011 and everyone loves it. This is the reason my steamid is a six digit, I played on WON until I was forced to move over. Steam's service early on was poor, but over time it became amazing and I'm glad I was forced to switch over. A little competition never hurt anyone.

Also the purpose of the pre-order from the perspective of EA is to project expected sales, build appropriate server infrastructure before hand, and to test the transaction systems. From the perspective of the user the purpose is to secure early access beta invites. It is a win win.

Smashbox
21-07-2011, 08:20 PM
You can pre-order DVDs, CDs. Tickets for a cinema trip can be made, maybe not months, but weeks in advance.

Do you purchase these things in advance? My only point is that the games retail and publishing industry has made a serious years-long push to make pre-ordering (letting them collect interest on your money) the new normal.

Teddy Leach
21-07-2011, 08:30 PM
I'm preordering from Amazon. If I can't get something on Steam, I look elsewhere for a copy, either DD or physical. I don't piss and moan and boycott it. Not being on Steam is not the be-all-and-end-all, and nor is having to use origin. It's exactly the same way you were forced to use Steam back in the olden days. It's going to happen, whether you boycott it or not.

coldvvvave
21-07-2011, 08:43 PM
Bees against honey.

Rii
21-07-2011, 08:45 PM
But ... I already have Origin installed.

G915
21-07-2011, 08:55 PM
Congrats on 2 members :)

Kadayi
21-07-2011, 09:04 PM
I like Steam, but given I've had to deal with GFWL & the Rockstar social before I'm not against Origin. I already have it there anyway (it was previously the EADM). It's no biggie. Sure it would be great to have BF3 on Steam, but I'm not going to cry tears about it.

sinister agent
21-07-2011, 09:06 PM
Congrats on 2 members :)

How is Gabe these days?

J Arcane
21-07-2011, 09:21 PM
Didn't we already have this thread?


I sure hope that this doesn't turn out like this did.
136

I hate that picture. I hate it because it's utterly misleading. That list is only 50 of 833 members in that group, a list sorted by who's currently online and playing a game, which means it's actually weighted towards showing the hypocrites over the hundreds of other members like me who in fact did not buy that piece of shit.

But what I hate even more than that fact is the part where it's been used time and time again since that day, all over the web, as an excuse for the most base cynicism and the most baseless slander.

It's a bad picture, it doesn't even say what you think it does, and all it does is allow you to hide behind false evidence to baselessly insult people.

Stop it.

Megagun
21-07-2011, 09:26 PM
Wow, this thread is amazing. A boycott Origin group. On Steam, which is... pretty much equal to Origin, except bigger and older.

You do realize that Origin is essentially the Humble Indie Bundle, right? Cutting out the middle man, making sure that they get more profits out of games?

If Origin fails, EA might decide to get out of the PC gaming business. If EA's business decision turns out to be not-so-profitable, they'll cut their losses and focus on things that are more profitable. Wether that is PC gaming, console gaming, or facebook gaming, doesn't matter. EA, just like any business, is a business: they're in it for the money. Everyone is. Honestly. You know why? Because at the end of the day, people need to be fed. People need money.

You want to see PC gaming thrive? Support Origin like you support Steam.

TillEulenspiegel
21-07-2011, 10:09 PM
If Origin fails, EA might decide to get out of the PC gaming business.
Oh noes! Anything but that!


You want to see PC gaming thrive? Support Origin like you support Steam.
I want to see good games. More good games. One tiny sale has essentially zero influence on a hyperglobalmegacorp like EA, so if I'm trying to make a statement of support, I'll do it elsewhere.

Everything else is just business, seeing as it's also just business to them. I couldn't possibly give a fuck how it benefits you. How does it benefit me? This is how people make choices.

Smashbox
21-07-2011, 10:09 PM
Wow, this thread is amazing. A boycott Origin group. On Steam, which is... pretty much equal to Origin, except bigger and older.

I do appreciate your comment's general sentiment, but I think that it's a false equivalency. Yes they are storefronts/social hubs/DRM systems, but Valve, as a non public company with a better track record on listening to and focusing on customers, is a much more appealing place to spend my money. It's not up to the fans of the medium to subsidize future entertainment by spending their money differently as new stores muscle their way in.

It's like saying, If you like Rubbermaid products, you must spend your money at Wal-Mart, or there might not be Rubbermaid products at some future time.

Edit: As a public company, it's EA's responsibility to squeeze as much from you as they can. They literally are required to do that.

The Mechanical Aggressor
21-07-2011, 10:14 PM
Personally I find the bully boy EA tactics appalling especially after Steam saved PC gaming. This is about a massive corporation muscling in, stealing market share and leveraging off the millions of dollars Valve has invested in Steam over the last five years.



This is nonsense. What you've described is simply normal competitive market activity, not "bully boy tactics". There's no such thing as "stealing market share" as that implies that Valve is somehow entitled to a certain amount of market share. If Valve lose market share to EA, too bad for them. Also, EA aren't "muscling in", they're merely taking responsibility for distributing their own games and they've been in the market for years. EA isn't leveraging anything off Steam with Origin, in fact it's exactly the opposite. They're getting away from Steam.





It is not so much the fact that Origin is yet another gaming platform it is the fact that we are being forced to use it to play Battlefield 3 if you want a digital version.


There are many games that force you to install Steam even if you buy the boxed version, let alone a digital version. You're using double standards when comparing Origin to Steam.




Do you really think EA has PC Gamers interests at heart? … really? They’ve spent over $1.5bn on casual social games chasing the latest trend destroying massive shareholder value. They would ditch PC gaming in a minute as soon as it started making a loss while they continue to cosy up to Facebook - Bejeweled vs Zombiesville 9 is the future of PC Gaming right? Crysis 2 was pulled from Steam due to an exclusivity agreement with Direct2Drive breaching Steam's T&C's and then EA had the affront to sell it for even more on its own Origin platform. Furthermore the recently announced SWTOR Origin version has unique content (Star Wars: The Old Republic Digital Deluxe Edition) and cost $79.99 versus the packaged retail standard edition of $59.99... is this a joke? I'm not laughing and I’m not seeing the PC Gamer love and nor should you.


EA want to make money. So do Valve. EA don't care about you. Nor do Valve. If Valve's games did not sell on PC, they would ditch the PC too, and they'd be stupid not to. Stop humanizing profit making corporations. PC gamer love? Really?!! Pull yourself together man!



Sadly, I fully expect Origin to be integrated into Battlefield 3 even in the packaged product so we cannot escape it even if you buy the disc - it's all about them capturing CRM data in their Nucleus database . All I can suggest is that you sign up to this boycott group (link below) and you pre-order the packaged version. At least don’t let EA have the extra profits and fatter margins that they would generate from a digital copy sold on Origin. .. $79.99 for a digital product really?


More double standards. Valve are allowed to integrate their distribution platform with their games, but EA aren't. Valve are allowed to make a bigger margin by selling directly to the costumer but EA aren't. Steam is allowed to capture user information, but EA isn't.



Me, I'm just a 40 year old PC gamer who is rather annoyed by all of this, yeah call me Victor Meldrew. But I really “don’t believe it”. DICE we love you… but EA… “Just stop” . Please tell your friends (friends of friends etc) and get them to join the group. It's time for some organised protest old school style . Everything starts off small but hopefully it will snowball into a PC Gamer movement that wants to speak up for PC Gamers. To make this happen please post the Steam Group link in any articles, blogs, Youtubes, twitters, Facebook etc about Battlefield 3. If you've the time then why not do it to other EA games. Let’s remind people we don’t have to accept this.


You seem to think you're fighting against some great social injustice. You're not. There's no issue here at all. What are you fighting against? EA making more money? Valve making less money? What exactly is the issue that you need organized protest to combat?

measurements
21-07-2011, 10:18 PM
Do you purchase these things in advance? My only point is that the games retail and publishing industry has made a serious years-long push to make pre-ordering (letting them collect interest on your money) the new normal.

Fun financial fact: Banked money devalues at ~3.5% per year in the UK at current economic times due to inflation being at 4% and interest being at 0.5% And someone said that on Radio 4 so it has to be true. But EA will invest your money at a better return than 4% so I should just bugger off.

GothicEmperor
21-07-2011, 10:23 PM
Does a one or two-month pre-order really matter that much?

Mind you, I still wait for reviews. Bioware was the only developer I trusted enough to always pre-order, and now that's gone as well. It's very nasty how they're preventing reviewers from publicatings their reviews at reasonable moments. It makes sense, I guess, but it's not quite ethical.

Kadayi
21-07-2011, 10:38 PM
If Origin fails, EA might decide to get out of the PC gaming business. If EA's business decision turns out to be not-so-profitable, they'll cut their losses and focus on things that are more profitable. Wether that is PC gaming, console gaming, or facebook gaming, doesn't matter. EA, just like any business, is a business: they're in it for the money. Everyone is. Honestly. You know why? Because at the end of the day, people need to be fed. People need money.


If EA want Origin to succeed as a digital store front they need to fundamentally commit to digital distribution for PC, or lower their pricing so it becomes competitive. Right now there isn't a game they sell on Origin that isn't cheaper to obtain via retail/e-tail.

deano2099
21-07-2011, 10:46 PM
If people want to boycott fair enough but I wish they'd just be honest about it. This isn't a case of morals or deep industry choices, it's just down to two things:

1) Steam is (currently) a better platform than Origin and
2) People want all their games in one place.

The problem is, demanding EA release the game on Steam is the wrong approach (as other people have said, ever tried buying Portal 2 from Direct2Drive?). The approach should be to get EA to make Origin as good or better than Steam. If they don't, don't buy it, but attacking them for doing exactly the same thing Valve do is a bit much. Blizzard do the same thing as well.

And it is healthy for the industry to have more than one platform.

Mihkel
22-07-2011, 12:18 AM
Didn't we already have this thread?



I hate that picture. I hate it because it's utterly misleading. That list is only 50 of 833 members in that group, a list sorted by who's currently online and playing a game, which means it's actually weighted towards showing the hypocrites over the hundreds of other members like me who in fact did not buy that piece of shit.

But what I hate even more than that fact is the part where it's been used time and time again since that day, all over the web, as an excuse for the most base cynicism and the most baseless slander.

It's a bad picture, it doesn't even say what you think it does, and all it does is allow you to hide behind false evidence to baselessly insult people.

Stop it.

Take it easy dude, I didn't mean to insult anybody with that picture. I just remember the boycotting being largely a failure considering how popular MW2 was on Steam.

Lukasz
22-07-2011, 12:34 AM
Take it easy dude, I didn't mean to insult anybody with that picture. I just remember the boycotting being largely a failure considering how popular MW2 was on Steam.

no. that pic was appropriate to post as it reminds us all that those boycotts are stupid and dont work.

J Arcane. Good for you for sticking up to your word (if you participated in that group) but you are not correct about it being misleading. it is not weighted towards hypocrites but weighted towards people who were playing at the time of taking the picture.
Also, you anger is unjust.

back on topic.

EA is doing what valve did 6 years ago. I blame them for doing it now not 6 years ago. I cannot blame them for preventing bf3 from steam.
Like I don't blame Valve not selling HL on d2d or gg.

the boycott is silly as it should be boycotting steam for not releasing HL series, TF2 etc on other platforms.

franky. steam grew too big. one shop, one company even if it is valve, controlling market like it does is just not good. it does need its claws to be cut.

J Arcane
22-07-2011, 12:41 AM
Take it easy dude, I didn't mean to insult anybody with that picture. I just remember the boycotting being largely a failure considering how popular MW2 was on Steam.

I just hate this popular narrative of "Gamers are just whiny hypocrites" that's become endemic in the online culture. I apologize if I accused you of something beyond your intentions, but you have to admit that very narrative is what that particular piece of "evidence" is intended to support.

The real truth of situations like MW2 isn't that gamers are all hypocrites or that boycotts are useless, it's rather the uglier truth that no one on sites like these ever wants to admit: We don't matter.

For everyone of us forum savvy types who even know about the shadier crap that goes on in this industry, or cares enough even to rant about it on a message board, there's about a thousand others who just don't give a fuck and don't even find out about any of these dick moves until they've already bought the product.

It's those people who keep the publishers in business despite them being consistently one of the most consumer hostile industries there is, so much so that even though Steam is in many ways everything gamers like us complain about, they get mad love just for not taking advantage of that fact as evilly as everyone else does.

And that's pretty much never not going to be the case. There will always be a much larger silent majority that doesn't give a fuck than the entire body of internet forums, Facebook groups, boycott communities, etc. etc. put together. It doesn't mean gamers are hypocrites, it means that there are more people out there who simply don't know there's anything to be hypocritical about in the first place.

But for some of us, it's enough to know that at least we didn't put the cash in their pockets that encourages this kind of behavior, and every now and then, enough of us make enough noise that they actually do listen out of concern for how it might affect their image or whether there's more silent disenfranchised that aren't speaking up.

And that's pretty much the best you can hope for.

Kadayi
22-07-2011, 01:13 AM
The real truth of situations like MW2 isn't that gamers are all hypocrites or that boycotts are useless, it's rather the uglier truth that no one on sites like these ever wants to admit: We don't matter.

I'd say developers do care about what gaming enthusiasts think in terms of product feedback. Publishers however are another matter.

DarkNoghri
22-07-2011, 02:35 AM
My first thought upon reading this thread: Without context, your thread title makes no sense. Join the boycott, be one of the earlier adopters. Wait, what? Anyway.

As someone who uses multiple download services, depending on where the prices are the best, here are my thoughts.

Steam is already massive, and that gives them an advantage. Even though I use GOG, GamersGate, D2D, and sometimes even the EA store, all my games are linked through Steam's non-steam games list. Why? All my friends are on Steam.

You're complaining about BF3 not being on Steam, but instead being on Origin. This is exactly how Steam got started, piggybacking on HL2 and similar games. You can't even play those without Steam even if you buy retail. And yet, now you're rooting for Steam. Give EA a few years, and you might even learn to love them as well.

That said, I dislike exclusive games and services. You want BF3 on Steam? Fine. HL2 needs to be for sale on Origin. What I want for this to end up doing is for Valve to back down on some of their more annoying policies. This next bit will echo a comment I made on the front page stories recently.

Don't force me to keep Steam open. Let me open it to download and update games. If games use the Steam overlay, make that separate from the game, so that it opens when the game runs, a la GFWL (never thought I would have said that). Release a separate chat client that people can run without the game open (or let them just run Steam like it is now).

In a perfect world, Valve and everyone else would open up their chat APIs. Let people log in through OpenID or something. Then run chats/game invites cross-service. If the chat APIs opened up, you'd then see clients like Trillian or Digsby or Evolve pop up to run communications to everyone. Now I don't have to default to my Steam friends list. Woohoo! I just don't see this happening.

The following picture is something that I do not consider to be an acceptable requirement to play my games:
http://i.imgur.com/rYstS.png (Thanks Shakermaker/reddit)
The fact that I need Steam open is bad enough. If all the major publishers start making their own clients that need to run to play their games, I will be seriously pissed off. Steam, right now, is a horribly slow, bloated piece of software. I would not run it if I didn't have to.

But in all seriousness: if I want BF3, I will buy it somewhere. Probably Gamersgate, depending on prices, if it's not on Steam. I really don't care about Origin one way or the other, except that they may force Steam to improve their client/service/support. And I would be totally fine with that.

TheLastBaron
22-07-2011, 02:37 AM
So is the point of this boycott that we should care about Steam more than the actual games we play on (or off in this case) of it?

deano2099
22-07-2011, 02:44 AM
I just hate this popular narrative of "Gamers are just whiny hypocrites" that's become endemic in the online culture. I apologize if I accused you of something beyond your intentions, but you have to admit that very narrative is what that particular piece of "evidence" is intended to support.

Hypocrisy is not saying one thing and then doing another. Hypocrisy is saying other people should not do something and then doing it yourself. I'm sure some people on that Steam group went out and told other people not to buy the game then bought it themselves. They are hypocrites. But I imagine the majority of them joined the group purely to express their annoyance with the lack of dedicated servers and to express their intention to not buy the product. Then they changed their mind.

Mac
22-07-2011, 10:08 AM
If EA want Origin to succeed as a digital store front they need to fundamentally commit to digital distribution for PC, or lower their pricing so it becomes competitive. Right now there isn't a game they sell on Origin that isn't cheaper to obtain via retail/e-tail.

Sounds just like Steam, with the exception of sales ... but even these are often beaten by Retail in the UK.

sabrage
22-07-2011, 10:23 AM
I have no idea why anyone would care as long as you don't need to install Origin to play a retail game. I don't like doing that for Steam games, but it's rather ubiquitous (honestly, how many of us don't have Steam installed right now?) and I HATE doing it for GFWL.

Tei
22-07-2011, 11:40 AM
Origin is going to fail, on the merits of EA.

For a service like Origin to success, you have to convince a lot of people, run like like "winter sales" with lower prices. What the first decision of EA? tryiing to impose a price for games that is +10€ expensive. EA is running on the wrong direction, ... on a service where you have to please everyone, even indies and the "enemy", is making everyone angry. Is what EA does, being a jerk, and being a jerk normally works, but not for a Digital Download service.

So I have buy BF3 in Origin, but I will probably backup the installer/installation, because Origin is going to be lame almost forever. Maybe not close, but EA "by design" can please people like the indies. And What is PC gaming withouth Valve? EA make games for consoles, and some games for PC that also are for consoles. If you don't have the Valve games, you have a big hole on your download service.

deano2099
22-07-2011, 12:31 PM
EA is not a person, and hence can't be a jerk. We don't know who is running it. All it needs is one good person at the top that knows what he's doing and can convince the top brass that short term sacrifices for long term gains in market share are worthwhile and it could be something good.

Why can't EA please the indies? I'm fairly sure EA will be just as interested in Valve at skimming 30% off the top of every indie game sold. And judging it on the launch price of a game is pointless as it's the same on Steam too. The deals only come in the sales.

Kadayi
22-07-2011, 02:11 PM
Sounds just like Steam, with the exception of sales ... but even these are often beaten by Retail in the UK.

I'm fairly sure on the pricing of their own games Valve have been fairly competitive Vs retail on the whole. Naturally they have no control over 3rd party pricing . EA aren't competitive at all competitive Vs their retail releases though.



Steam, right now, is a horribly slow, bloated piece of software. I would not run it if I didn't have to.

Elaborate. I hear this 'slow, bloated' statement a lot and I have to wonder why kind of last century hardware people must be using, because Steam uses up roughly as much memory as one tab in Google Chrome. Some concrete as to the 'tyranny' of the experience would be appreciated here.

Hensler
22-07-2011, 02:11 PM
Steam saved PC gaming? Really?

Kadayi
22-07-2011, 02:16 PM
Steam saved PC gaming? Really?

If you disagree perhaps you should bring a counter argument?

Kaira-
22-07-2011, 02:26 PM
I'm fairly sure on the pricing of their own games Valve have been fairly competitive Vs retail on the whole. Naturally they have no control over 3rd party pricing .
Yes they have, actually (http://steamunpowered.eu/e-mail-from-cd-projekt-the-witcher/). Not complete, but some control though. [E] Assuming that by "3rd party pricing" you mean game prices on Steam, not on retail.



Elaborate. I hear this 'slow, bloated' statement a lot and I have to wonder why kind of last century hardware people must be using, because Steam uses up roughly as much memory as one tab in Google Chrome. Some concrete as to the 'tyranny' of the experience would be appreciated here.

Personally I find Steam's browser (you know, one of its main features) horribly, horribly slow for anything. Otherwise... well, it runs ok.


If you disagree perhaps you should bring a counter argument?
I thought the burden of proof is upon him/her, who brings the claim to table (as in this case, "Steam saved PC gaming").

bwion
22-07-2011, 02:35 PM
Boycott Origin? This is 1999 all over again!

I for one will be boycotting Origin until there is a command line interface where I can ask NAME and JOB.

Rii
22-07-2011, 03:10 PM
If EA is engaged in abusive practices to get Origin off the ground then they're only following in Valve's apparently unimpeachable footsteps. I certainly don't recall being given much of a choice as to whether to register for and download Steam back in 2003 or whenever it was: "do it or you'll no longer be able to play the games you've purchased! LOL!" - Valve.

Tikey
22-07-2011, 03:17 PM
For me this is a trust issue. Valve earned my trust with its history and attitude, while EA hasn't (for the exact same reasons).
Maybe a few years from now Origin makes a very solid reputation that makes me change my mind, meanwhile I prefer to trust my games to valve rather than EA.

Smashbox
22-07-2011, 03:24 PM
For me this is a trust issue. Valve earned my trust with its history and attitude, while EA hasn't (for the exact same reasons)

This is what it boils down to for me.

vinraith
22-07-2011, 03:24 PM
If EA is engaged in abusive practices to get Origin off the ground then they're only following in Valve's apparently unimpeachable footsteps. I certainly don't recall being given much of a choice as to whether to register for and download Steam back in 2003 or whenever it was: "do it or you'll no longer be able to play the games you've purchased! LOL!" - Valve.

Exactly. Origin doesn't seem any more intrusive and obnoxious than Steam, so why should I care? EA's simply following the precedent Valve established with Steam, the only surprising thing is that it took them this long.

Wizardry
22-07-2011, 03:44 PM
If you disagree perhaps you should bring a counter argument?
Steam didn't save PC gaming because games suck more today than they did before Steam was created.


I for one will be boycotting Origin until there is a command line interface where I can ask NAME and JOB.
I think you're getting confused between the 1999 Origin boycott and the 1992 Origin boycott. ;)

DarkNoghri
22-07-2011, 04:59 PM
Elaborate. I hear this 'slow, bloated' statement a lot and I have to wonder why kind of last century hardware people must be using, because Steam uses up roughly as much memory as one tab in Google Chrome. Some concrete as to the 'tyranny' of the experience would be appreciated here.

Well, it's certainly not the worst thing ever (I probably exaggerated a bit previously). As for hardware: I'm currently running a middling AMD quadcore and an ATI 4850. Steam is just slow. It takes 20-45 seconds to open/login to Steam. Clicking the button to log into friends does nothing for about 4 seconds, and then the list finally pops open. I'd probably be fine if there was a button press animation/login process bar or something, but it just ignores the click (or seems to) until it finally pulls your friends up.

The browser is the worst part, really, and it's integrated into everything that's not the games library. I get really slow web browsing out of game. If I go to someone's Steam profile, I don't expect it to pull up the most recent page I was on, and then take 10-20 seconds to pull up where I want to be. It's the same for their store navigation. If they want to integrated the web into all the features in their program, it needs to not suck. On the overlay, the first webpage I pull up (open overlay, hit web, pull up google) takes 10-15 seconds just sitting there with a blank page before it even bothers doing anything.

I'm not even talking about memory usage, because I have enough that it doesn't really matter. It's just that for what Steam is doing (running chat, opening my games, opening web pages), it should be snappy. But it's not in certain areas.

Drake Sigar
22-07-2011, 05:59 PM
Let me see if I’ve got this right – you’re organizing gamers to boycott a company’s online service because it competes with another company’s online service? Someone's not a fan of Capitalism.

Tikey
22-07-2011, 06:19 PM
Let me see if I’ve got this right – you’re organizing gamers to boycott a company’s online service because it competes with another company’s online service? Someone's not a fan of Capitalism.

Well, It's a slow game. Capitalism 2 is better IMO

GothicEmperor
22-07-2011, 06:33 PM
Let me see if I’ve got this right – you’re organizing gamers to boycott a company’s online service because it competes with another company’s online service? Someone's not a fan of Capitalism.
Wait, what?

ran93r
22-07-2011, 07:05 PM
Couldn't care less if it's on Steam or not.

There, I said it.

Kadayi
22-07-2011, 07:50 PM
url="http://steamunpowered.eu/e-mail-from-cd-projekt-the-witcher/"]Yes they have, actually[/url]. Not complete, but some control though. [E] Assuming that by "3rd party pricing" you mean game prices on Steam, not on retail.

http://steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php

Valve will advise you as to what they think is a good price to go to market at but they don't actually set the prices. Ultimately that's the publishers decision (or developer if it's an indie thing). So in the Case of Activision Bobby Kotick believes you need to pay £39.99 for the privilege of playing CODBlops, where as EA think that £19.99 is a reasonable price for MoH.


Well, it's certainly not the worst thing ever (I probably exaggerated a bit previously). As for hardware: I'm currently running a middling AMD quadcore and an ATI 4850. Steam is just slow. It takes 20-45 seconds to open/login to Steam. Clicking the button to log into friends does nothing for about 4 seconds, and then the list finally pops open. I'd probably be fine if there was a button press animation/login process bar or something, but it just ignores the click (or seems to) until it finally pulls your friends up.

The browser is the worst part, really, and it's integrated into everything that's not the games library. I get really slow web browsing out of game. If I go to someone's Steam profile, I don't expect it to pull up the most recent page I was on, and then take 10-20 seconds to pull up where I want to be. It's the same for their store navigation. If they want to integrated the web into all the features in their program, it needs to not suck. On the overlay, the first webpage I pull up (open overlay, hit web, pull up google) takes 10-15 seconds just sitting there with a blank page before it even bothers doing anything.

I'm not even talking about memory usage, because I have enough that it doesn't really matter. It's just that for what Steam is doing (running chat, opening my games, opening web pages), it should be snappy. But it's not in certain areas.

See I don't find any of that happens to me at all. I'm an i7, but even so Steam takes about 5 - 8 seconds to start Max, and Looking up someones profile takes about 2 seconds tops. Personally I don't use the inbuilt web browser that much, but I find it's fairly responsive when I have used it. If I was you I'd perhaps be inclined (given the differential in our experiences) to look into potential conflicts with your firewall and or/internet connection.

J Arcane
22-07-2011, 07:54 PM
I don't have any problems with Steam performance, but two of my friends both get severe memory leaks with Steam so bad they slow down the entire machine. One was so bad it was actually eating up his entire 8GB of RAM, just running completely rampant.

Kadayi
22-07-2011, 09:35 PM
I don't have any problems with Steam performance, but two of my friends both get severe memory leaks with Steam so bad they slow down the entire machine. One was so bad it was actually eating up his entire 8GB of RAM, just running completely rampant.

Well has he tried re installing it? Or running a repair on it?

squareking
22-07-2011, 10:04 PM
I just wish clients weren't an accepted requirement to play games and that when I buy a game, it's mine to play whenever and wherever. Simple things. Sure, Steam is an excellent and convenient product and Valve has earned my trust, but those things nag at me whenever I make a purchase on Steam.

DarkNoghri
22-07-2011, 10:18 PM
See I don't find any of that happens to me at all. I'm an i7, but even so Steam takes about 5 - 8 seconds to start Max, and Looking up someones profile takes about 2 seconds tops. Personally I don't use the inbuilt web browser that much, but I find it's fairly responsive when I have used it. If I was you I'd perhaps be inclined (given the differential in our experiences) to look into potential conflicts with your firewall and or/internet connection.

Come to think of it, I just checked. I have to revise most of that statement, as I recently cleaned out my Steam install (deleted all files except steam.exe and steamapps folder) due to another problem I was having. Steam has been much snappier since then. It just took 10-15 seconds to open, and logging into friends is much faster as well (the button click even appears to register).

Still, web browsing could be faster.

archonsod
22-07-2011, 11:07 PM
Valve will advise you as to what they think is a good price to go to market at but they don't actually set the prices.

Yeah, but when you decide whether or not to carry a product and skim a chunk from each sale, you've got enough influence you don't have to dictate the price ...

J Arcane
22-07-2011, 11:37 PM
Well has he tried re installing it? Or running a repair on it?
We've actually done wipe and reinstalls on both. Same problem.

CuriousOrange
23-07-2011, 02:23 AM
The web browsing could be faster. But it's pretty fantastic it's even there. That happens to my Steam installs too, after 6 months or more I have to reinstall it as it slowly grinds to a halt.

agentorange
23-07-2011, 05:59 AM
Let's boycott Valve and Steam because they won't put Portal 2 on Impulse.

Kadayi
23-07-2011, 01:12 PM
Yeah, but when you decide whether or not to carry a product and skim a chunk from each sale, you've got enough influence you don't have to dictate the price ...

926 games under £7 each. Breath of death VII & Cthulhu Saves the World for £2

I'd hardly say they are milking it tbh.


We've actually done wipe and reinstalls on both. Same problem.

If you'd gone for 'Well we tried re-installing Steam and it still occurred' I'd be inclined to believe you, but when you're headed to 'We nuked the site from Orbit, and that still didn't fix the problem' I'm left a tad skeptical as to the veracity of your statement. That or your friends need to run mem test on their RAM.

Wolfenswan
23-07-2011, 02:29 PM
Steam didn't save PC gaming because games suck more today than they did before Steam was created.


I think you're getting confused between the 1999 Origin boycott and the 1992 Origin boycott. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARXfQzfl9EQ

J Arcane
23-07-2011, 06:01 PM
If you'd gone for 'Well we tried re-installing Steam and it still occurred' I'd be inclined to believe you, but when you're headed to 'We nuked the site from Orbit, and that still didn't fix the problem' I'm left a tad skeptical as to the veracity of your statement. That or your friends need to run mem test on their RAM.
And I'm left saying that I really don't care whether some dude I don't know on the Internet believes me or not.

We all have our burdens to bear.

Kadayi
23-07-2011, 07:53 PM
And I'm left saying that I really don't care whether some dude I don't know on the Internet believes me or not.

Computer programs are not distinct (the version you run of Steam is the same as that of 30 million other users). If a problem is still occurring after you've done a re-install that's indicative of a hardware issue/conflict, not a problem with the program. Check for motherboard or graphic card BIOS updates & drivers and memtest your system ram for faults: -

http://www.memtest.org/

TheLastBaron
23-07-2011, 07:59 PM
@Wolfenswan
I tip my hat to you good sir.

Kadayi
23-07-2011, 08:31 PM
@Wolfenswan
I tip my hat to you good sir.

I can see that clip reposted a lot tbh.